The Official Carolina Sucks and won't be in the tournament thread

[CameronBornAndBred]

Sorry tarheels..tonight, February 5th, 2010, you wrote your own epitaph. Ed Davis, ..Roy..you guys say what you want and how you want..but it all translates to your season is toast. Roy..keep coaching...you rock, despite all of your inadequacies. Thank you very much for giving the NIT some relevancy in its last year of existance. Your's truly--CB&B

[Wander]

Wait until they have 9 ACC losses, then start this.

But yes, they do suck. :)

[Duvall]

Wait until they have 9 ACC losses, then start this.

But yes, they do suck. :)

Right. It's clear that they do suck, and there's no reason to deny it. But it is much less clear that they will continue to suck, and we might as well wait until they get their 10th ACC loss before declaring that they won't get an at-large bid.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Im not saying a thing until we beat them...twice. We did lose to NC State, so anything can happen. For now, I'll be Ole Roy and say they're struggling.

[BlueintheFace]

Perhaps the real question is whether or not they will make the:

http://images.chron.com/blogs/cougars/NIT.gif

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

These people know not what they say. Until the Devils beat UNC I am not going to get excited about their demise.

GO DUKE!

[OldSchool]

Better to wait before gleefully writing their obituary.

That team is loaded with talent, and has sucked so far because of lousy coaching.

They could get their act together at any time, regardless of whether Ol' Roy does anything useful.

When it comes to games against us, throw the records out the window. Both teams will be playing with maximum intensity, and when UNC actually does play with maximum intensity, they can be a load.

[Duvall]

Hi,

These people know not what they say. Until the Devils beat UNC I am not going to tempt fate.

GO DUKE!


The Weaufx Gods are angered by boasting, by bragging. not by facts.

13-9 is a fact. 2-5 in the league is a fact. There's no danger in acknowledging them.

[Kimist]

Carowhina could have easily won the game tonight, even though they fell far behind at the start and were playing in a hostile arena. They got some serious positive bench play, so if ole Roy decides to do a little late-season player shuffling things could get interesting. The return of Zeller might also give them a boost. They still have the potential to win some games, although the likelihood is not great. But stranger things have happened.

And lest we forget, Duke lost to State and failed to even show up for Georgetown. Anyone who thinks a sweep of unc is automatically in the cards for Duke this year may need to reconsider their position.

k

[striker219]

Until the Devils beat UNC I am not going to get excited about their demise.

GO DUKE!

Twice.

Until the Devils beat UNC twice.

We all may be thinking it, but please, let's hold off on saying it just yet. After the fact? By all means, announce it to the world. In the meantime, simma' down now.

[Starter]

Not to mention, 10 months ago, they won a National Title. Don't get me wrong, UNC can't lose enough for me, but it's hard for me to take that much satisfaction in it knowing how recently they were on top of the world.

That said, I wonder if Harrison Barnes would have thought differently about the direction the two schools were going in had he watched how the seasons went down. I'm speaking not so much about the teams' records, but the turmoil with Williams losing his cool, dissatisfaction among his players, etc.

[Vincetaylor]

The number of UNC threads on this board is purely pathetic. Duke just had its best win of the season and you all are still rambling on about how bad UNC is. They've won two championships since we won our last one and they've kicked our asses for the last few years. Until we beat them or accomplish something approaching the significance of their championships, I recommend we keep our mouths shut and focus on Duke.

[CameronCrazy'11]

At this point, it is not a given that they will finish .500 on the season and qualify for the NIT.

[Mike Corey]

Im not saying a thing until we beat them...twice.

I feel like this is a good way to approach it in general, but embracing a little schadenfreude does a body good.

http://batmancomic.info/gen/20100205001245_4b6bc4edbbce2.jpg
h/t to "thebluedevil" at TDD

[dukegirlinsc]

I am absolutely HAPPY to read this post. And bookmark it. And re-read it hundreds of times. Loveeee it love it! Go Duke!

[GODUKEGO]

Is it to late for Harrison Barnes to change his mind. How can one choose to play in the Dean Dome with that apathetic crowd compared to Cameron!!! Never cheered more for the Hokies last night. Go Terps!!!

[moonpie23]

Until we beat them or accomplish something approaching the significance of their championships, I recommend we keep our mouths shut and focus on Duke.


thank you....i resemble that remark...

please...people...PLEASE......this will be so ugly if duke goes over there and loses.....or worse, loses at cameron....


please, please........can't we just lie in wait and keep quiet until we have the W?

[Duvall]

this will be so ugly if duke goes over there and loses

If North Carolina wins next Wednesday, they'll still be 14-10 and well short of even being on the wrong side of the bubble.

They haven't been a good team this year. Why are people afraid of admitting this?

[moonpie23]

it's not a question of what THEIR record is......it's whether or not we lose another game to those reprobates....


stay focused...

[CrazieDUMB]

They haven't been a good team this year. Why are people afraid of admitting this?

Because I saw them beat us six out of the last eight times, including four times in a row in our house. Don't worry, I completely relish every single loss of theirs, but you never know what can happen in a rivalry game. Also, if they managed to beat us even once this year, it wouldn't validate their season but at the very least their fans could say 'well, at least we beat duke.' I don't want to give them that.

There was a time when I had complete confidence in Duke, and right now I don't. I still think we'll beat unc, but like many others, I'm not going to be happy until we do.

[davekay1971]

The facts:

1) Carolina is currently 2-5 in the ACC with a tournament unworthy RPI
2) Carolina has been even worse than us on the road this year.
3) They have road games remaining at MD, Ga Tech, BC, Wake, and Duke
4) They haven't exactly been defending the Nose Dome
5) They have home games remaining against Duke, NCSU, Miami, and FSU

Here begins opinion:
To rise to being NCAA tournament worthy, Carolina has to significantly raise their RPI. That means winning some ACC games against NCAA tournament bound teams. In my opinion that means getting to at least 7-9 in the conference with wins against more than just NCSU, Miami, and BC.

All five of their road games are tough, with BC being their best bet.

Three of their four home games are winnable, and the fourth is us, and we know how they play against us (unfortunately making that game winnable as well).

Assuming UNC wins all four home games, giving them an RPI boosting win over us, they need to win at least one of their road games (IMHO, if they beat BC, they're still going to need another road win to make the tournament).

It's a tall task. They're not dead yet, because I think they win 3 of 4 at home, and as wierd as the ACC is, they could very well steal two road wins. But it's a big uphill climb. If we do our job, and give them two more in the loss column, we make the mountain very steep indeed.

So, I'm not celebrating yet...but I am perusing the champagne selection.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Nice post. I think you're dead on with the 7-9 record. They had a decent non-conference schedule a won a few good games (Mich State, Ohio State). Anything 7-9 and higher and they're in the tourney. Anything lower and I don't see it happening.

Potential scenario: UNC is 6-9 coming into Cameron. Wow. No pressure. Wow.

[CameronBornAndBred]

They had a decent non-conference schedule a won a few good games (Mich State, Ohio State).
And they lost to COC. Bank this....if they have a 7-9 conference schedule there is NO WAY they are going to any tourney other than the NIT.

[flyingdutchdevil]

And they lost to COC. Bank this....if they have a 7-9 conference schedule there is NO WAY they are going to any tourney other than the NIT.

Don't forget the UNC name. Or the fact that UNC brings millions of fans who will profit the NCAA handsomely. I really think that 7-9 will sadly bring them into the tourney. It doesn't happen often, but with a team like Carolina, it probably will.

[Duvall]

And they lost to COC. Bank this....if they have a 7-9 conference schedule there is NO WAY they are going to any tourney other than the NIT.

Oh, I doubt that. It's not like there are a lot of great bubble teams out there, and certainly none with wins over Michigan State and Ohio State, plus the two quality wins they would need to get to 7-9. I think they'd be in.

No chance at 6-10 or anything worse, though.

[CDu]

Oh, I doubt that. It's not like there are a lot of great bubble teams out there, and certainly none with wins over Michigan State and Ohio State, plus the two quality wins they would need to get to 7-9. I think they'd be in.

No chance at 6-10 or anything worse, though.

If they finish 7-9 in conference, they'll be 18-13 in the regular season, and likely no better than 19-14 overall. I don't think that two big wins in November/December and two okay wins in February will be enough to offset the CoC loss and the 12 losses against top-100 teams.

For instance, they were not in the projected field on any of the bracket prediction sites, and that was before last night's loss. Finishing 5-4 and 6-5 isn't going to necessarily be enough to overcome that, in my opinion. Especially if those wins come against a bubble team like Maryland and FSU at home. Those aren't exactly resounding wins.

They could get in at 7-9, but they'd be a borderline bubble team at best depending on which of the big remaining games they win. At 6-10, I agree, there is absolutely no chance.

[devildeac]

Is it to late for Harrison Barnes to change his mind. How can one choose to play in the Dean Dome with that apathetic crowd compared to Cameron!!! Never cheered more for the Hokies last night. Go Terps!!!
He already changed his mind once.

[DurhamMatt]

Yes.......

We havn't shown up in Chapel Hill just yet, and almost everyone I work with (and probably everyone you work with) are UNC fans. So naturally I have been rubbing at them all season, and they all reply with the same thing. When was the last time you won a national title? If they beat us at the dome than it wont matter what thier record is, they will still own us. They will still have won 2 titles in the past 5 years, and we will still be the team that goes into the tourney overrated and loses prematurely. Have you guys been watching the past 5 years here in Durham? Dont get me wrong, I am psyched on what has happened so far this year, in both cities. I don't know about you, but im not betting the rent on Duke come Feb. 10th.

[bluepenguin]

If North Carolina wins next Wednesday, they'll still be 14-10 and well short of even being on the wrong side of the bubble.

They haven't been a good team this year. Why are people afraid of admitting this?
Their record has NOTHING to do with how they will play on Wed. History has shown that records mean nothing when Duke plays UNC. The game is at UNC at they have all the incentive in the world to show everyone that they aren't dead yet. Why tempt the weauxing gods???????

[RoyalBlue08]

Anytime I am feeling too good, I always know where I can come for someone to explain to me why it is foolish I am happy. Duke wins, UNC loses, Duke is on top of ACC, UNC near the basement. I am about as happy as I can get. Luckily, I have DBR posters to remind me why I shouldn't be enjoying a blow out victory and a UNC team that is staring the NIT in the face.

[UrinalCake]

Don't forget, they could still win the ACC tournament. It's unlikely, especially since there's a good possibility they'll be playing on thursday, but I wouldn't completely rule it out either.

Of course, Roy doesn't care about the ACC tournament. BUUUWAAAAHH

[flyingdutchdevil]

How's the IC doing? Has it exploded yet? And by explode, I mean DBR-Harrison-Barnes+DBR-John-Wall+DBR-Villanova-loss.

[bluepenguin]

Anytime I am feeling too good, I always know where I can come for someone to explain to me why it is foolish I am happy. Duke wins, UNC loses, Duke is on top of ACC, UNC near the basement. I am about as happy as I can get. Luckily, I have DBR posters to remind me why I shouldn't be enjoying a blow out victory and a UNC team that is staring the NIT in the face.

We are all feeling good. And I don't think anyone on this board has told you that you are foolish to be happy. We all are. Some of us just think however, that this is not cause to trash talk. Trash talking always comes back to haunt you. I believe some of the posters have proven scientifically that the weauxing gods do exist. hopefully there will be plenty of reason to trash talk at the end of the season, but I sure wouldn't want to do it now and then go to UNC on wednesday and get blown out.
So go ahead and be happy - trust me, we all are.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Of course, Roy doesn't care about the ACC tournament. BUUUWAAAAHH
That's precious! I think he might care a little bit this year, even though it is such an inconvenience for him. If they don't accept an NIT bid (I'm guessing they would play), it will be their farewell tour for this season.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I feel like this is a lose/lose situation for Duke, at least in the eyes of "Duke Haters." Unless we beat them down like we beat GT last night, they'll say "It took a down year for UNC for you to beat them" or if we lose they'll say "Haha, you guys lost to a bad North Carolina team. Still can't beat em!"

We'll get no respect I tell ya.

[jdj4duke]

How's the IC doing? Has it exploded yet? And by explode, I mean DBR-Harrison-Barnes+DBR-John-Wall+DBR-Villanova-loss.

Yep- IC pretty much exploding, and this thread is particularly repellent.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&f=1410&t=5579329

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yep- IC pretty much exploding, and this thread is particularly repellent.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&f=1410&t=5579329

Wow. The IC is really entertaining!It's basically a microsite of Ignorant America.

Yet another reason I'm happy I didn't go to UNC...

[Jeffrey]

Right. It's clear that they do suck, and there's no reason to deny it. But it is much less clear that they will continue to suck..........

IMO, it's time for a vision check.

UNC will always suck! They always have and they always will.

How many games they win or lose is irrelevant.

[oldnavy]

If North Carolina wins next Wednesday, they'll still be 14-10 and well short of even being on the wrong side of the bubble.

They haven't been a good team this year. Why are people afraid of admitting this?

I have been asking this question since the third game of the season! I guess it is just a natural reaction and a way of guarding your emotions to expect them to suddenly emerge as the UNC of old. But they are not a good team this year regardless of the talent/potential talent they have.
I’ve been preaching the same thing about their vaunted frontline players. They just are not that good, yet people on this site keep saying that they are the best in the ACC and some even say the country. Hey, I will be the first to admit that Hansblah was an AA, POY player, but Davis, Thompson, Henson, Wear(s) are not. Yea, I know the argument, that if the guards were better, then the bigs would be awesome, but the fact is that the guards aren’t better and the bigs are struggling as well. Heck, they are almost in last place of the conference and risking not making the NIT for gosh sakes!
Could they beat us, absolutely? But would people feel better about the game if they were 18-3? I wouldn't.
I say jump on them now, jump on them hard, and even if they beat us, jump on them again for having a worse record. In other words, jump on them whenever you have the opportunity, because it doesn't come round too often!

[Kedsy]

To rise to being NCAA tournament worthy, Carolina has to significantly raise their RPI. That means winning some ACC games against NCAA tournament bound teams. In my opinion that means getting to at least 7-9 in the conference with wins against more than just NCSU, Miami, and BC.

I don't think the RPI works this way. Their RPI will improve just by playing top rated teams, whether they win those games or not.

Obviously they have to win more than 3 additional league games, because a 5-11 league record won't even get them to the NIT. But if they win five more games against the five worst teams on their schedule, their RPI would be the same as it would if they win five more games against the five best teams on their schedule. The RPI is simply a compilation of winning percentages. At least that's what I've always understood to be the case.

(Having said that, supposedly they recently introduced a home/road factor to the RPI, so winning several road games might be better than winning only home games. But still it wouldn't matter if they beat tournament-worthy teams or not.)

[moonpie23]

it wouldn't validate their season

i TOTALLY disagree with this statement.......yes it would too......for them, for stuart scott, for all the folks on the wagon wearing that stupid baby blue....yes it would too..





but at the very least their fans could say 'well, at least we beat duke.'
.

right......that DOES validate their season.....

[oldnavy]

i TOTALLY disagree with this statement.......yes it would too......for them, for stuart scott, for all the folks on the wagon wearing that stupid baby blue....yes it would too.. right......that DOES validate their season.....

But heres the thing... no matter what happens they will "validate" their season. They will validate it with, "we won the NC last year", or "we have won 6 NC's", or we have beaten you X out of Y times (going back only far enough to give them the advantage).

Yes, if we lose to them, then that will be the noise we will hear. But make no mistake, UNC fans will make noise no matter what happens, even if they lose the rest of the games this year. Their motto is "There's always LAST year!"

[wilko]

No one is happier than me to put the nails in UNC's coffin.
But lets face it these guys come back from the dead more often than Dracula.

I cant tell you how many UNC games I have cruised by channel surfing to catch them losing.... then once I'm hooked in they find a way to win it... I dont watch UNC games to watch them WIN!! very frustrating...

They will be back.

We HAVE to beat them 2x this yr.


I'll reserve thumping my UNC friends about this until the season is OVER.
Dont wanna jinx the lovely karma we have going right now.

[CDu]

Yes, if we lose to them, then that will be the noise we will hear. But make no mistake, UNC fans will make noise no matter what happens, even if they lose the rest of the games this year. There motto is "There's always LAST year!"

Which isn't too much different than our motto, right? I mean, how often do we hear the retort that "we dominated the 1990s/early-2000s" argument and reference to our past ACC/NCAA tournament success in reference to our current struggles against UNC and/or in the NCAA tournament?

Aside from specific examples (e.g., Clemson at UNC), every fan base will have a retort.

[Duvall]

right......that DOES validate their season.....

They may *say* that, but it's loser talk.

UNC may beat Duke; Duke has shown that it is capable of losing to an even worse team in N.C. State. But that loss didn't ruin Duke's season, nor did it salvage N.C. State's.

[CDu]

Ultimately, we need to beat UNC twice. I say that not just because I don't want to hear it from UNC fans at work if they win, but also because if we beat them twice then they are that much less likely to make the NCAA tournament. If we lose to them, they get that much closer to 8-8 in conference.

[moonpie23]

I cant tell you how many UNC games I have cruised by channel surfing to catch them losing.... then once I'm hooked in they find a way to win it... I dont watch UNC games to watch them WIN!! very frustrating...



it's gotta be YOU then !!

.......didn't you go to the state game?

[shoutingncu]

They may *say* that, but it's loser talk.

UNC may beat Duke; Duke has shown that it is capable of losing to an even worse team in N.C. State. But that loss didn't ruin Duke's season, nor did it salvage N.C. State's.

This is exactly right. It is as objective a fact as sports comparisons can be that Duke is better than Carolina this year. Barring an implosion by Duke or a complete transformation by Carolina, we don't need to play the games to realize that Duke is better, and yes, I realize how silly that sounds. (That is, after all, why they play the games)

And as such, Carolina may even win... and you'd have to hear it from the IC crowd, but all that would mean is that the better team will have lost.

[77devil]

Their record has NOTHING to do with how they will play on Wed. History has shown that records mean nothing when Duke plays UNC. The game is at UNC at they have all the incentive in the world to show everyone that they aren't dead yet. Why tempt the weauxing gods???????

Indeed. This entire thread is bad karma and woefully premature.

[wilko]

it's gotta be YOU then !!

.......didn't you go to the state game?

That aint cool man... :D


Of course... I'm LUCKY in that a friend took care of me..
I'd a been mighty upset if I had to PAY to see them play that poorly.
Now I know how Pack nation feels most every game

[CameronBornAndBred]

Indeed. This entire thread is bad karma and woefully premature.
The post you responded to was about Duke vs. unc. This thread has nothing to do with our two games, it is about how the holes are NIT bound. (Even if unc beats us in one of the games, they are still NIT bound)

[77devil]

The post you responded to was about Duke vs. unc.

Really? I didn't know that.


This thread has nothing to do with our two games, it is about how the holes are NIT bound. (Even if unc beats us in one of the games, they are still NIT bound)

As far as I am concerned, any thread about UNC being down at this point in the season is bad karma, and relishing in their misfortune just makes it worse. And by the way, UNC can lose every remaining regular season game and still go to the NCAA tournament.

[BD80]

No one is happier than me to put the nails in UNC's coffin.
But lets face it these guys come back from the dead more often than Dracula.
...

Now that you mention it, have you ever seen ol' roy and Dracula together?


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/sioncampus/04/11/roy.kansas/vent_roy.jpg

http://images.dailyfill.com/44da7eeab8054906_ae68b55b9058a018_o.jpg

[SharkD]

Is it to late for Harrison Barnes to change his mind. How can one choose to play in the Dean Dome with that apathetic crowd compared to Cameron!!!

I'm not particularly sure that we'd want Barnes, after his little Skype and Pony show.

[Devilsfan]

Agreed! Let him be a heel. That's terrific punishment and great revenge for his "it's all about me" and boy did I play you Dukies on "my" national TV announcement day.

[oldnavy]

Which isn't too much different than our motto, right? I mean, how often do we hear the retort that "we dominated the 1990s/early-2000s" argument and reference to our past ACC/NCAA tournament success in reference to our current struggles against UNC and/or in the NCAA tournament?

Aside from specific examples (e.g., Clemson at UNC), every fan base will have a retort.

I was trying to make the point that, beat us or not, UNC will "validate" their season by recalling their past greatness. I also want to say that there is no reason to not give them "the business" for stinking it up THIS year. I suppose you could say all schools do it (rationalize), but that kind of takes the fun out of razing the heels wouldn't you say... I mean if I have to start being fair minded...

[moonpie23]

Agreed! Let him be a heel. That's terrific punishment and great revenge for his "it's all about me" and boy did I play you Dukies on "my" national TV announcement day.


I'm not particularly sure that we'd want Barnes, after his little Skype and Pony show.

oh please y'all.......if he'd done that and coach K was on the other side of that skype you'd be jumping up and down about how "totally awesome and kewl and trendy and hip" it was...

and it was...

still....he's a hole now...

but you guys are just sour graping...

[CDu]

I'm not particularly sure that we'd want Barnes, after his little Skype and Pony show.

I'd still love to have Barnes. I think complaining about the Skype thing is just sour grapes. It was a big moment for the kid, and he was having fun with it and trying to do something different. It's just too bad that it wasn't Coach K on the other end of the Skype feed.

[CDu]

I was trying to make the point that, beat us or not, UNC will "validate" their season by recalling their past greatness. I also want to say that there is no reason to not give them "the business" for stinking it up THIS year. I suppose you could say all schools do it (rationalize), but that kind of takes the fun out of razing the heels wouldn't you say... I mean if I have to start being fair minded...

I've just never been into the taunting/razzing either way. When we win, I'm happy to enjoy it myself. When we lose, it stinks. I don't like it when others try to rub it in when Duke loses, so I don't do it to them when UNC loses.

That said, I still do enjoy a good UNC loss as much as the next guy.

[SharkD]

oh please y'all.......if he'd done that and coach K was on the other side of that skype you'd be jumping up and down about how "totally awesome and kewl and trendy and hip" it was...

and it was...

still....he's a hole now...

but you guys are just sour graping...

Nope. I would have been aghast had the other end of the Skype window shown Coach K.

I remember a couple of 'it's all about me'-type players, who K tried to shoehorn into his system. I won't name names, but one of them had a habit of getting a new tattoo or piercing every time he felt he was picked-on in practice. A more recent example jumped to the NBA early, and can't seem to break the $1million barrier, try as he might.

I'm not thrilled about the concept of bringing in One-n-Done type players, but I'm okay with it, so long as they're committed to the team and K's system, and not simply to shameless self-promotion.

[BD80]

... I remember a couple of 'it's all about me'-type players, who K tried to shoehorn into his system. I won't name names, but one of them had a habit of getting a new tattoo or piercing every time he felt he was picked-on in practice. ...

Damn foreigners

[oldnavy]

I've just never been into the taunting/razzing either way. When we win, I'm happy to enjoy it myself. When we lose, it stinks. I don't like it when others try to rub it in when Duke loses, so I don't do it to them when UNC loses.

That said, I still do enjoy a good UNC loss as much as the next guy.

Well I guess it depends on where and how you grew up. I grew up surrounded by UNC fans during the time Duke was really bad and UNC was really good. I grew to despise their "fan" base. But yet it is really weird, because some of the people I love the most in this world are diehard UNC fans. It is kind of like "love the sinner, hate the sin".

Anyway, I love rubbing their noses in it, because from ~1970 to ~1991, I got my nose rubbed in it. As I have gotten older and Duke has enjoyed so much success, I have calmed down quite a bit. That and the fact that my wife is one of those diehard fans, and I can't show too much joy when the holes do badly, it just ain't worth making momma mad! ;)

[mgtr]

Look, lets beat the Holes two (or maybe even three times, if we are lucky) this season before we gloat. I am sure that if they get even one victory against us they will claim a winning season -- probably even put up a banner!
As a Stanford undergrad, we lost almost every football game, but at the end we beat Cal. Hurray -- a winning season, time to party! Note - this was years before the Stanford band won the game for Cal.

[hurleyfor3]

OK kids, feel free to resume woofing.

[diveonthefloor]

you know the ironic thing is that UNC has enough talented players to win the ACC tourney if they actually had the leadership to focus on the task at hand.

Roy is proving to the world that while he has a lot of qualities necessary to coach at a high level in the ACC (namely recruiting prowess), he lacks the sufficient leadership to navigate tough or fluid circumstances. Just makes me appreciate K all the more.

[G man]

If UNC manages to keep playing at their current level they may not be in the NIT

[HateCarolina]

If UNC manages to keep playing at their current level they may not be in the NIT

Anyone know if there is even a precedent for winning the national championship and then not even making the NIT the next year? If not, then it would be the first time in my life that I could be happy for a record set by Crapolina.

[SharkD]

Look, lets beat the Holes two (or maybe even three times, if we are lucky) this season before we gloat.

I don't think, that since the inception of the Les Robinson classic, er... the Play-In Game, there's ever been a team which has even played four times in the ACC tournament.

Edit: I take that back. NC State has done it, twice. In 2007 and in 1997.

[hurleyfor3]

Anyone know if there is even a precedent for winning the national championship and then not even making the NIT the next year? If not, then it would be the first time in my life that I could be happy for a record set by Crapolina.

Kansas got probation in '89 so was out of the postseason. And the coach of Kansas in 1989 was...

[oldnavy]

The funniest smack talk I have heard from a UNC fan this year was "You only beat us by 10 points"...

Priceless!!!

[hurleyfor3]

The funniest smack talk I have heard from a UNC fan this year was "You only beat us by 10 points"...

Priceless!!!

Fine, when we were down in '95 at least we took unc to double overtime.

[oldnavy]

Fine, when we were down in '95 at least we took unc to double overtime.

Yes we did. But I have to tell you I think it is hilarious that a tarheel would try to use the fact that we "only" beat them by 10 points to say that we stink!!

To paraphrase Ol Roy, "Can it get any BETTER than this?"

[shoutingncu]

The funniest smack talk I have heard from a UNC fan this year was "You only beat us by 10 points"...

Priceless!!!

Regrettably, it's all we have this year... that is, the hope that this Duke team will underperform seed/record/expectation in the tournament. Vicarious anti-success, I suppose.

And you don't have to go back to 1995 for irrational claims of fandom. I'm pretty sure there are those on this board that still enjoy 40-12, even though said beatdown came in the Final Four, and was a two loss team up until that point, having won back-to-back ACC Championships and first place finishes (*tied in '07), beating Duke three out of four times.

All that said, HA HA... you're only 10 points better than a crappy team!

[oldnavy]

Regrettably, it's all we have this year... that is, the hope that this Duke team will underperform seed/record/expectation in the tournament. Vicarious anti-success, I suppose.

And you don't have to go back to 1995 for irrational claims of fandom. I'm pretty sure there are those on this board that still enjoy 40-12, even though said beatdown came in the Final Four, and was a two loss team up until that point, having won back-to-back ACC Championships and first place finishes (*tied in '07), beating Duke three out of four times.

All that said, HA HA... you're only 10 points better than a crappy team!

You know you are having a bad season when you taunt people for only beating you by ten points!!

[shoutingncu]

You know you are having a bad season when you taunt people for only beating you by ten points!!

No argument here. I just hope we don't get to taunt NC State for it tomorrow...

[InSpades]

Where do I sign up for being "only 10 points" better than every team we play for the rest of this year? :). Heck, I'll sign up for only being 10 points better than Maryland tomorrow right now (in blood if necessary).

Note: I didn't say who's blood.

[Devilsfan]

Ol' Roy please don't consider the Nets job. If you leave they might wind up with a Mr. Wright. We definitely don't want that.

[GODUKEGO]

The funniest smack talk I have heard from a UNC fan this year was "You only beat us by 10 points"...

Priceless!!!

We shoot 31% from the field and only beat them by 10 in their house!!!

[Mike Corey]

Homer Simpson chimes in (http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/12081416/2066305804/name/HOMER.wav).

http://johngushue.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/24/angry_homer_simpson.jpg

[Kewlswim]

Well I guess it depends on where and how you grew up. I grew up surrounded by UNC fans during the time Duke was really bad and UNC was really good. I grew to despise their "fan" base. But yet it is really weird, because some of the people I love the most in this world are diehard UNC fans. It is kind of like "love the sinner, hate the sin".

Anyway, I love rubbing their noses in it, because from ~1970 to ~1991, I got my nose rubbed in it. As I have gotten older and Duke has enjoyed so much success, I have calmed down quite a bit. That and the fact that my wife is one of those diehard fans, and I can't show too much joy when the holes do badly, it just ain't worth making momma mad! ;)

Sad, but true..even if she is a Tar Heel. Your a good person.

GO DUKE!

[jv001]

Well I guess it depends on where and how you grew up. I grew up surrounded by UNC fans during the time Duke was really bad and UNC was really good. I grew to despise their "fan" base. But yet it is really weird, because some of the people I love the most in this world are diehard UNC fans. It is kind of like "love the sinner, hate the sin".

Anyway, I love rubbing their noses in it, because from ~1970 to ~1991, I got my nose rubbed in it. As I have gotten older and Duke has enjoyed so much success, I have calmed down quite a bit. That and the fact that my wife is one of those diehard fans, and I can't show too much joy when the heels do badly, it just ain't worth making momma mad! ;)

I find myself in the same situation as you oldnavy. My best friends are unc fans. Most of my Sunday School Class members are unc fans. One thing I have going for me is my preacher is a true Duke fan. We are having some good natured fun with these guys this year. It's a payback from the abuse we received from them last year. I hope this current trend lasts for a long time because I really love these guys in Christ, but they are hard to take when the tarheels are playing very good bb. Go Duke!

[BD80]

... my preacher is a true Duke fan. ... Go Duke!

Your preacher is a Devil?

Is there no end to church reform?

[CameronBornAndBred]

To the mods, thanks for reopening. The holes are hoping for a second chance, too. Ain't gonna happen, I'll be suprised if they make it past Friday.

[GoingFor#5]

Is it bad that I've taken up reading the InsideCarolina boards as a hobby lately? It's such comedy.

[OldSchool]

It was the best of times for Duke, it was the worst of times for UNC, it was the age of wisdom for Coach K, it was the age of foolishness for Ol’ Roy, it was the epoch of belief for Duke fans, it was the epoch of incredulity on IC, it was the season of Light for the Blue Devils, it was the season of Darkness for the Tar Holes, it was the spring of hope in Durham, it was the winter of despair in Chapel Hill, we had everything before us, they had nothing before them, we were all going direct to the NCAAs, for them GTHC - in short, the period was so far like the past rivalry, that some of its noisiest authorities on SportsCenter insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.
A Tale of Two Basketball Teams, by Charles Dukeins

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Is it bad that I've taken up reading the InsideCarolina boards as a hobby lately? It's such comedy.


Hahaha, that's awesome. I should do that too for comedic relief from my otherwise hectic life. :D

[Georgiadevil]

I felt i needed to post here tonight to keep the thread going.I rest peacefully knowing the Tar Heals are in hell and resting for the forseeable future.

[weezie]

Well, they're delusional over there. Went to dinner and had to listen to a ton of baloney about the big win today and the fact that tyler was there AGAIN, like he has nothing better to do, which of course he doesn't.
Some nonsense about Ellington being honored?!

Nobody gave me any lip while I wore the dark blue, that's for sure. Step aside holes.

[Newton_14]

They also did not look good today against a State team that basically played terrible.

One interesting note in today;s game though. In the first half, Strickland crashed the offensive glass and tried to dunk a miss that came off the rym and he missed it and State got the ball back. A State guy got fouled shortly after that on the other end and during the free throws ol roy called Dexter over to the sidelines.

You could see roy telling him he should have chosen to lay it back in rather than dunk it. Roy said "it's still 2 points" and gave a lay up motion with his hands. Could not see what Dexter said back to him but it was obvious he was arguing back that he did not do anything wrong. Roy shook his head and was visibly irritated with the mouthing back. Not a huge deal but I am not sure I have ever seen a kid argue with roy like that. Especially a freshman... But hey, if it will cause a few more wheels to come off the hole bus, I am all for it turning into something bigger!:cool:

[dukemsu]

Well, they're delusional over there. Went to dinner and had to listen to a ton of baloney about the big win today and the fact that tyler was there AGAIN, like he has nothing better to do, which of course he doesn't.
Some nonsense about Ellington being honored?!

Nobody gave me any lip while I wore the dark blue, that's for sure. Step aside holes.

So Beaker was there? Was he in Cookie Monster's seat?

GTHC

dukemsu

[moonpie23]

all you need to do is browse IC for 5 minutes to know in your heart that they could be back to 8-20 and still think they were going to win it all..

ugh....


holes..

[LSanders]

Is it bad that I've taken up reading the InsideCarolina boards as a hobby lately? It's such comedy.

Amen ... One of many examples:


RE: Quick Thoughts on the NCSU Game

(1) We need to play State more often.

[Chris4UNC]

Indeed

[Chris4UNC]

I felt the Heels were way too highly ranked in the pre-season polls. I was thinking maybe 20th to 25th but not in the top five. I began to doubt my own doubt when they followed beating then #15 Ohio St. by just pounding then #9 Michigan State. Even their losses at #2 Kentucky by 2 then putting 90 points up in a losing effort against the #2 Texas were decent games. But then everything went to pot. I have no clue what is going on. They are young, yes, but that excuse has worn thin. The guard play is horrendous at times and even when Zeller and Davis were healthy and playing they miss the easiest shots. I know you guys are enjoying this season, especially given the great run over the last 6 years. Yes, I have hope. They have 6 games left in the regular season. I am thinking they will need to at least win 3 or 4 of those and pick up an ACC Tourny win to get in the NCAA. Finishing with a total of 18 or 19 wins coupled with a tough early schedule may get them in.

[Chris4UNC]

Amen ... One of many examples:


RE: Quick Thoughts on the NCSU Game

(1) We need to play State more often.

....no more of a comedy than what I read here. :rolleyes:

[Chris4UNC]

all you need to do is browse IC for 5 minutes to know in your heart that they could be back to 8-20 and still think they were going to win it all..

ugh....


holes..

That is the way you would see it. IC is just doing what any similar media outlet for Duke would do, showing support. They would show support wouldn't they? Oh, let me guess. You are going to say they would be as realistic as you think IC is being unrealistic. UNC has 6 games left. They could lose them all or win them all. Anything is possible.

[Chris4UNC]

Well I guess it depends on where and how you grew up. I grew up surrounded by UNC fans during the time Duke was really bad and UNC was really good. I grew to despise their "fan" base. But yet it is really weird, because some of the people I love the most in this world are diehard UNC fans. It is kind of like "love the sinner, hate the sin".

Anyway, I love rubbing their noses in it, because from ~1970 to ~1991, I got my nose rubbed in it. As I have gotten older and Duke has enjoyed so much success, I have calmed down quite a bit. That and the fact that my wife is one of those diehard fans, and I can't show too much joy when the holes do badly, it just ain't worth making momma mad! ;)

Till 1991? I as a Tar Heel fan remember that Duke was quite dominate prior to '91. Starting in 1986, for example, making it to the national title game only to lose to Louisville. They were great in the mid to late 80's. The 1990's were good for both teams. I think Duke went to 8 final fours in 10 years and of course the won the 91 and 92 titles. Carolina won the national title in 1993 and went on to final fours in 1991, 1995, 1997, 1998. Both were in the 1991 final four. Roy Williams' coached Kansas defeated UNC while Duke beat UNLV.

Of course I know Duke has had many great years prior to the years you mentioned. They were no push over in the 70's or any decade for that matter.

[Chris4UNC]

Sorry tarheels..tonight, February 5th, 2010, you wrote your own epitaph. Ed Davis, ..Roy..you guys say what you want and how you want..but it all translates to your season is toast. Roy..keep coaching...you rock, despite all of your inadequacies. Thank you very much for giving the NIT some relevancy in its last year of existance. Your's truly--CB&B

Don't be so sure of yourself. Remember the 18-12 Heels from 2000. They ended up in the final four. OK, OK, OK, I know.....that was a better team with veterans of the 98 and 97 final four on it but anything can happen. A Lord knows I hope "anything" does happen.

[oldnavy]

Till 1991? I as a Tar Heel fan remember that Duke was quite dominate prior to '91. Starting in 1986, for example, making it to the national title game only to lose to Louisville. They were great in the mid to late 80's. The 1990's were good for both teams. I think Duke went to 8 final fours in 10 years and of course the won the 91 and 92 titles. Carolina won the national title in 1993 and went on to final fours in 1991, 1995, 1997, 1998. Both were in the 1991 final four. Roy Williams' coached Kansas defeated UNC while Duke beat UNLV.

Of course I know Duke has had many great years prior to the years you mentioned. They were no push over in the 70's or any decade for that matter.

Took that first Natty to get the monkey off our backs and to quiten the critics.

[Duvall]

Yes, I have hope. They have 6 games left in the regular season. I am thinking they will need to at least win 3 or 4 of those and pick up an ACC Tourny win to get in the NCAA. Finishing with a total of 18 or 19 wins coupled with a tough early schedule may get them in.

Winning three games won't be enough. That would put UNC at 6-10, which would be out short of winning the ACC Tournament. Winning four games probably wouldn't be enough - with Ed Davis the Heels might have had a chance at 7-9, but without him they would no longer receive the benefit of the doubt, since they would no longer be the team that beat Ohio State and Michigan State.

And UNC didn't have a tough early slate - it had an easy early slate with a few tough games. That's why their RPI is so low.

[kong123]

And UNC didn't have a tough early slate - it had an easy early slate with a few tough games. That's why their RPI is so low.

I think that is understating it a bit. UNC played 3 different teams that have held the number 1 spot this season and another two teams that have been in the top 10 all year long. Duke has only played two top 12 teams and lost to both. I understand that recent history makes it fun to pick on them now, so I guess enjoy yourselves.

[Indoor66]

So Beaker was there? Was he in Cookie Monster's seat?

GTHC

dukemsu

Yeah, both of them.

[Duvall]

I think that is understating it a bit. UNC played 3 different teams that have held the number 1 spot this season and another two teams that have been in the top 10 all year long.

Has Ohio State been in the top 10 once this year? And it's important to remember that Texas isn't actually good. But the real problem is that UNC also played Florida International, NCCU, Gardner-Webb, Presbyterian and Albany - teams that aren't just bad, they are terrible.

[davekay1971]

I think that is understating it a bit. UNC played 3 different teams that have held the number 1 spot this season and another two teams that have been in the top 10 all year long. Duke has only played two top 12 teams and lost to both. I understand that recent history makes it fun to pick on them now, so I guess enjoy yourselves.

UNC got spanked by Syracuse and Texas (and Texas appears to have been overrated when UNC played them...not as badly overrated as UNC at preseason number 4, but still overrated), and did a commendable job against KY-Jelly. By far UNC's best game was against MSU, and had a nice game against Ohio State. UNC had a much better season going in Nov-Dec and looked like a team appropriately ranked somewhere in the bottom half of the top 25. Since January, however, they have collapsed in staggering fashion. Part of that is injuries, more of it is Huckleberry Hound mismanaging the development of this team incredibly badly. Since January, they look like exactly what they've become: one of the worst 4 teams in the ACC. Sadly, they look like that despite having some experience on the court (Ginyard, Thompson, and Graves) and more talent than just about anyone they have faced in the last two months. Again, that falls on Roy for making all the wrong moves - wrong style of play for the players he has, wrong motivational techniques, mismanaging the confidence and psyche of his players, etc.

I'm not trashing Carolina's players. I am trashing Roy for being a lousy coach this year. And I am definitely enjoying watching one of the most arrogant fanbases in the world suffer. The most entertaining part of this is seeing the Carolina fans lash out at Roy, the players, each other...those few Carolina fans, that is, that haven't taken down all their Carolina signs and put their Carolina gear in the back of the closet to wait and see how next year starts. You want to see some trashing of the Carolina players? Talk to a Carolina "fan".

Barring a great turnaround by that team, they are going to continue to suck and they are going to miss the NCAA tournament. I expect them to be in the NIT unless they finish DFL in the ACC. At least, then, they can play to raise another banner in the Dean Dome.

[CDu]

I think that is understating it a bit. UNC played 3 different teams that have held the number 1 spot this season and another two teams that have been in the top 10 all year long. Duke has only played two top 12 teams and lost to both. I understand that recent history makes it fun to pick on them now, so I guess enjoy yourselves.

And that's overstating it a bit. They played the #2, #4, and #5 teams in the RPI. Other than that, they've played the #23 (MSU), #28 (Texas), and #38 (OSU) teams in the RPI. After that, their non-conference schedule was atrociously bad. That's why their RPI is terrible.

But even your statement is false. In their preseason schedule, they faced OSU (never in the top-10), Syracuse (now in the top-5 but never #1 and not top-10 all season), Texas, UK, and MSU (hasn't been in the top-10 all season). So they've played two teams that have been #1 (Texas and UK) and two other teams that are currently in the top-10.

Has UNC played more top teams this year? Sure. But they've played a lot more terrible teams as well. Duke's schedule is sort of like the ACC - not a lot of top-tier teams, but a lot of tough games.

[kong123]

I did make a mistake, they have played two teams that have been #1 and one team that is currently #2. MS started out #2, but like Texas, have since fallen apart. However, just because there is some turmoil in Austin right now, Texas has the chance to be a great team. They are ultra deep and talented, but will they be able to pull it together.

As far as cupcakes go, everyone plays them. I would imagine that there is much difference playing a team ranked 300 in the RPI vs 100, other than in the RPI. Teams like UNC and Duke should cream both of those teams, no problem.

As far as the year goes, I think there are a number of reasons this year went bad.

too many expectations placed on a unproven team
the experienced players on the team are not good leaders
the coach is hard headed and continues to try to force a square peg into a round hole
and finally, injuries

[DUKIE V(A)]

Last night's win could help the Holes into the ACC Tournament 8/9 game. If they can muster an upset in Round 1...Well, let's just say that is likely to give a certain team from a certain city 8 miles away another opportunity for The Triple Crown.

Although I like the story were Duke administers the beat down that knocks the Holes out of the NIT (barring a miracle in the ACC Tournament), I would love a shot at The Triple Crown.

[CDu]

As far as cupcakes go, everyone plays them. I would imagine that there is much difference playing a team ranked 300 in the RPI vs 100, other than in the RPI. Teams like UNC and Duke should cream both of those teams, no problem

There is a HUGE difference between playing a team in the #300 level of the RPI (teams like Monmouth, Colgate, McNeese St, USC-Upstate, and Hartford) and playing a team in the #100 RPI range (teams like BC, Alabama, Providence, NC St, Arkansas, and George Mason). In the 300s range, you should absolutely kill everybody. In the 100 range, you have a legitimate chance of losing. You should still win, but teams in the 100 range are generally very good mid-majors or mediocre/poor major conference teams.

This is the key to the difference. UNC has played lots of atrocious teams this year and a few really tough games. Duke has played a couple of really tough games, lots of games against solid-but-not-great opponents, and a few cupcakes.

[MChambers]

In the 100 range, you have a legitimate chance of losing. You should still win, but teams in the 100 range are generally very good mid-majors or mediocre/poor major conference teams.

This is the key to the difference. UNC has played lots of atrocious teams this year and a few really tough games. Duke has played a couple of really tough games, lots of games against solid-but-not-great opponents, and a few cupcakes.

Yes, just imagine if UNC had had to play teams like College of Charleston (160 in Pomeroy and 141 in Sagarin) frequently. ;)

[kong123]

it really doesn't matter. UNC will not make the tournament, which will be disappointing, but fine. They may have played a few cupcakes, but every team does. The fact is, they played a handful of really tough teams, 3 of which spent much of the season inside of the top 5, away from the Smith Center. Duke's non-conference schedule, it may have been against teams with higher RPI's, but most of them were played in Cameron. The Gonzaga game was played on a neutral court on the east coast, they won, and Wisconsin and Georgetown were played away, they lost. Point is, Duke maybe better than the heels this year, but they still will not go any further in the NCAA's because they are not a well-balanced team. 3 guys doing all the scoring? May work in conference, but it will not work starting in the round of 32. But... you guys already know that, don't you.....

[natedog4ever]

it really doesn't matter. UNC will not make the tournament, which will be disappointing, but fine. They may have played a few cupcakes, but every team does. The fact is, they played a handful of really tough teams, 3 of which spent much of the season inside of the top 5, away from the Smith Center. Duke's non-conference schedule, it may have been against teams with higher RPI's, but most of them were played in Cameron. The Gonzaga game was played on a neutral court on the east coast, they won, and Wisconsin and Georgetown were played away, they lost. Point is, Duke maybe better than the heels this year, but they still will not go any further in the NCAA's because they are not a well-balanced team. 3 guys doing all the scoring? May work in conference, but it will not work starting in the round of 32. But... you guys already know that, don't you.....

Bitter much?

I love it.

[kong123]

oh, I don't know, I didn't start 3 threads on this forum celebrating a rivals bad season. act like you've been here before....

[natedog4ever]

We've never been here before. Roy is setting all kinds of career-worst records this season. It really is discussion worthy, and I can't blame some for celebrating depending on their individual circumstances (like, if you are an NC resident).

For me, it's absolutely delicious.

[davekay1971]

oh, I don't know, I didn't start 3 threads on this forum celebrating a rivals bad season. act like you've been here before....

We have, consistently, for the last 30 years. UNC has been a phenomenally successful program as well. Both programs have had rare down years. Both fanbases have some fun when the other team is in one of those down years.

Some simple facts:
1) UNC sucks this year. They really, really suck. Much like King Rice.
2) Duke doesn't.
3) UNC won't make the NCAA tournament.
4) Duke will.
5) UNC is in the running for the most disappointing team in the history of college basketball (how many other preseason top 5 teams have been in danger of not making the NIT?)
6) Duke isn't.
7) You're bitter right now
8) Duke fans aren't.

But, hey, peace and love. Happy Valentine's Day!

[airowe]

oh, I don't know, I didn't start 3 threads on this forum celebrating a rivals bad season. act like you've been here before....

It used to be funny when people thought you were a Duke fan.

[Wildling]

We have, consistently, for the last 30 years. UNC has been a phenomenally successful program as well. Both programs have had rare down years. Both fanbases have some fun when the other team is in one of those down years.

Some simple facts:
1) UNC sucks this year. They really, really suck. Much like King Rice.
2) Duke doesn't.
3) UNC won't make the NCAA tournament.
4) Duke will.
5) UNC is in the running for the most disappointing team in the history of college basketball (how many other preseason top 5 teams have been in danger of not making the NIT?)
6) Duke isn't.
7) You're bitter right now
8) Duke fans aren't.

But, hey, peace and love. Happy Valentine's Day!

Priceless!

[Newton_14]

It used to be funny when people thought you were a Duke fan.

Or to put it another way, "when he came on to DBR pretending to be a Duke fan"..

[shoutingncu]

Of course, Roy doesn't care about the ACC tournament. BUUUWAAAAHH

Figured you all would enjoy this quote, emphasis mine:


How important is it for you that this team makes a postseason tournament?

“It means a great deal to me and I think it could be important to us, but we’ve got to play our way into that. There’s no doubt in my mind that I’m still confident that we can go on a run and we can be in the big tournament. It looks a lot more cloudy from what everybody says and being able to look at it realistically, and I can understand that. But that’s what I’m focusing on right now. If not, I’ll be more interested in the ACC Tournament than I’ve ever been interested in it. That’ll get a couple of calls, I’m sure.”

Friday Press Conference (http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/947653.html)

I can only assume he means the NIT when he says "Big Tournament."

[CDu]

Or to put it another way, "when he came on to DBR pretending to be a Duke fan"..

Did he really? Wow, that is sad.

[IBleedBlue]

oh, I don't know, I didn't start 3 threads on this forum celebrating a rivals bad season. act like you've been here before....

Really man. Here's some differences between IC and this board:

I am not a member of IC but I regularly read stuff on that board.
1. You guys spell Duke wrong and Coack K as K-Rat.
2. There are more threads in IC about Duke or anything remotely related to Duke and you guys bash those threads to death until theres nothing left to discuss anymore. There is no such thing in this board. In fact, people here and the mods love to lock and close the threads related to UNC when it becomes too much. From my experience, DBR has been a more positive and constructive board than the positiveness in Roy's dadgum lil pinky finger.
3. Of course, we will start more threads now on the debacle of the season that is UNC. It makes our season that much sweeter. And you know what, even if Duke doesn't go beyond the round of 16, I am satisfied with our team and players and we don't throw them under the bus like you guys are doing!!!

Go think about that!!

[moonpie23]

not only that, i think it's fair to say that the duke players give a damn about their coach, the staff, their fans, the school, and the program's legacy.

i couldn't help thinking about carolina when tiger was talking about 'entitlement" today. That's the word that comes to mind when i see the arrogance that is baby blue. Someone had a t-shirt(s) made up that had a picture of the national title trophy on it with a carolina logo and the words "give it to us ! It's ours !"



this is pure karma and unc deserves every single second of the misery.

[Devilsfan]

I wonder if two of them in particular are thinking "All the leaves are brown and the sky is grey."? I bet if they take a winters walk they will start "dreaming". What if....UCLA,UCLA, UCLA where the weathers' warm, the girls are beautiful (even if they don't have all genuine GM parts) and they don't have to hear the sceaming in practice every day. Just wondering.

[GODUKEGO]

I overheard them at Panera's on Franklin Street saying, "I wish they all could be California Girls". Forget the girls and weather, at least at UCLA they would be playing next year. Nothing worse than getting splinters and losing!!!

[GODUKEGO]

Today's Raleigh News & Observer's front page:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/348405.html

[CameronBornAndBred]

“It means a great deal to me and I think it could be important to us, but we’ve got to play our way into that. There’s no doubt in my mind that I’m still confident that we can go on a run and we can be in the big tournament. It looks a lot more cloudy from what everybody says and being able to look at it realistically, and I can understand that. But that’s what I’m focusing on right now. If not, I’ll be more interested in the ACC Tournament than I’ve ever been interested in it. That’ll get a couple of calls, I’m sure.”

Friday Press Conference (http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/947653.html)


Good luck with that, Roy. Which of the seven steps is denial? That's where he's at.

[Devilsfan]

Hey Rams Club members how do you say "buy out"?

[Devilsfan]

Roy, play your walk-on 30+ minutes. They can't do any worse and they probably care more.

[Grey Devil]

Good luck with that, Roy. Which of the seven steps is denial? That's where he's at.

It's actually five steps, and denial is the first one (see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%83%C2%BCbler-Ross_model)). The five are Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. But from what I can tell from my limited viewpoint here in California, ol' Roy has been all over the map on this. Clearly he's has been in denial for a long time, but I've also definitely seen anger, bargaining, and depression, just from observing his actions on the bench. And I think I've even seen occasional displays of acceptance. But he hasn't fully reached that point yet that I can tell (nor should he, given his job).

Most interesting to me, is that in the game with us I thought I also observed him displaying some of Gary's tendencies of turning around and berating the bench. It seems to me he's really been acting pretty schizoid this season.

Grey Devil

[IBleedBlue]

I was browsing my way in IC to see all the meltdown and I was shocked at one of the posts -

One of the poster writes - BC should not be in this game by halftime and UNC should be blowing them away.


UNC fans don't learn and understand that their team sucks and sucks big time. They forgot how to respect and give credit to their opponents when it is due.

[CameronBornAndBred]

It's actually five steps, and denial is the first one (see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%83%C2%BCbler-Ross_model)). The five are Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance.
Cool, thanks for the correction. I wonder when Roy will reach acceptance...I was there 2 weeks ago. :D

[msdukie]

I greatly enjoy going onto tarheelblue.com (who ever thought I'd say that) and seeing the link for "limited number of RETURNED tickets available for FSU and Miami games."

Got to love that fanbase that always gives you that great support!

[gumbomoop]

My sincere apologies for repeating and updating my own post from Zeller thread; I do realize it's a bit of bad form, but I'm hoping most posters will forgive me, in that it posits a scenario many will find pleasing. Now that the Heels have lost again, things are getting ever more interesting re DFL.

UNC v. BC for likely "9-seed" [!!] in ACCT. Here's a projection:

1. #1-7, we probably know: D, W, Md, VT, C, FSU, GT; order unimportant right now, except D=#1, very likely.

2. UVa very likley #8.

3. NCSt very likely #12 [but keep reading......]

4. #9-11 - fight between BC, UNC, M

As UNC has continued its slide with loss today, that means in the event they wind up somehow tied with BC for 9-10 slot, tiebreaker goes to BC. Further, UNC loss today makes slide ever more slippery, and now they could meet M late season needing a win to avoid..... a battle, records-wise, with NCSt for DFL [credit to davekay1971, post #104 above on this thread, for this deliciously naughty phrase, unless it's a commonplace that, in my innocence, I've missed].

Here's a tantalizing thought: is it possible that late in the evening of March 6, in the waning seconds of the regular season finale, you, like me, might just find yourself chanting to your tele [unless you're in CIS, where you could even more satisfyingly lead a Crazy Chant], "DFL, DFL, DFL.....

Wouldn't that be every bit as satisfying as possibly facing the #9 Heels in ACCT?

[striker219]

I don't know which Hole thread to put this in, but this seems as good as any.

UNC descends further into the unknown (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/4382/unc-descends-further-into-unknown-with-another-loss)

[BD80]

I don't know which Hole thread to put this in, but this seems as good as any.

UNC descends further into the unknown (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/4382/unc-descends-further-into-unknown-with-another-loss)

Oh come on roy. Really?


"You’ve got to go out and fight until you frickin' die," said a heated Williams, who has been coaching with a sling for a few weeks after undergoing shoulder surgery this season and is now dealing with a bad head cold.

He is a frickin' warrior he is.

[WiJoe]

Oh come on roy. Really?



He is a frickin' warrior he is.

Katz is as big a tool as huck.

[GODUKEGO]

You did not think I meant the men's team!!!

[duke=legacy]

UNC has had an easy time recruiting some of the best players over the last few years because of how successful the program has been. Will this season change that?

[Kedsy]

UNC has had an easy time recruiting some of the best players over the last few years because of how successful the program has been. Will this season change that?

No. Sorry to say.

[78Devil]

No.

Unfortunately.

[cptnflash]

Roy Williams post-game comments:

"I thought we'd get on a run and be in the NCAA tournament," said the Hall of Fame coach. "Now we have to readjust and get it done Wednesday [against Florida State]. I've never been in this position. I've never cared if we were a one seed, two seed or a three seed. But I thought that if we win five in a row, get to 8-8, that would get us in, but we didn’t get the first step."

My response to that is... really? You honestly thought you would win at BC, at Wake, and then at Cameron on senior night for Jon, Brian, and LT? All without Ed Davis? Have you actually watched any of your team's games this year? What could you possibly have seen that made you think you could win even a few of those games, let along all of them? Serious denial going on here.

[cptnflash]

No way, too much brand equity. Plus they play up tempo and are on national TV all the time. Kids love to have the opportunity to pile up points and get lots of exposure. They will remain a breeding ground for NBA talent unless they have a long dry spell, which is basically impossible given their existing recruiting advantages.

That being said, there is going to be a LOT of pressure to win next year. If they get off to a bad start... l can't even imagine what that would be like for Roy.

[roywhite]

UNC has had an easy time recruiting some of the best players over the last few years because of how successful the program has been. Will this season change that?

This season might cause Roy to re-evaluate what could be a flaw in his approach to recruiting...that is, offering scholarships too early, or before kids have completed at least a good part of their junior season.

For example, their 2010 PG choice, Kendall Marshall committed in September of 2007, as he was just starting his junior year in high school. At that point, he was ranked near the top of point guards in the class of 2010, behind only Brandon Knight. At this point, there are now several PG's who are more highly regarded, including Kyrie Irving.

Frankly, I don't think UNC needs to get in early on a kid in order to recruit him. But Roy seems to like nail things down well in advance of the senior season for most recruits. His reading on projecting 16 year olds into college lineups is not perfect.

It remains to be seen if UNC's recruiting approach or success changes. It might.

[El_Diablo]

That being said, there is going to be a LOT of pressure to win next year. If they get off to a bad start... l can't even imagine what that would be like for Roy.

That won't happen...the non-conference schedule will be mostly CUPCAKE CITY, baby! :eek:

[WiJoe]

Frankly, I don't think UNC needs to get in early on a kid in order to recruit him. But Roy seems to like nail things down well in advance of the senior season for most recruits.

more time on the golf course that way.

[BD80]

That won't happen...the non-conference schedule will be mostly CUPCAKE CITY, baby! :eek:

You mean like College of Charleston?

[tastytaste]

Ed Davis staying?

http://www.nbadraft.net/2011mock_draft

[striker219]

Ed Davis staying?

http://www.nbadraft.net/2011mock_draft

Look at some of the rest of the names on that list. Totally meaningless.

[blueprofessor]

Ed Davis staying?

http://www.nbadraft.net/2011mock_draft

Hoops Doctor lists almost all 2010 NBA mock drafts. http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/02/mock-draft/
Among them are:
ESPN (Chad Ford)--Davis is 5th
Draft Express--- Davis is 7th

Chances are very good he will enter the draft.

Best regards--Blueprofessor:D:)

[oldnavy]

Hoops Doctor lists almost all 2010 NBA mock drafts. http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/02/mock-draft/
Among them are:
ESPN (Chad Ford)--Davis is 5th
Draft Express--- Davis is 7th

Chances are very good he will enter the draft.

Best regards--Blueprofessor:D:)

Yea, why would he want to come back to that mess and have to deal with Ol Roy's neuroses?

[M B Walker]

With their win tonight over Oklahoma, Kansas has moved just one win behind UNC on the all-time win listing. (UNC is at 1,998 and Kansas is at 1,997.)

Carolina's next four games are FSU, @Wake, Miami, @Duke. They have to go 2-4 to hit 2,000 wins, which is possible if they take both of their home games, but FSU won't be easy and Miami may give them a battle also.

Kansas has three games before their conference tournament. @OK State, KSU, @Missouri. They could win out, but those are three pretty tough games, much more difficult for Kansas to win 3 and get to 2,000 before Carolina hits the mark.

Of course in the longer run it won't matter -- Kansas is almost certainly going to be ahead of Carolina by the end of the year. That's amazing, given that Carolina had a lead of a dozen games when the season started.

(Duke, by the way, is 4th on the all time list, with 1,901 wins. Kentucky is 1st, with 2,014.)

[msdukie]

Of greater concern, KU could have 12 games left and could break Duke's single season 37 win record (shared with others - Memphis got vacated) and could break Duke's Class of 2001 NCAA record of 133 wins over 4 years.

[TexHawk]

In that class, you're really only talking about Sherron Collins, as Brady Morningstar redshirted one of those 4 years. And if you really want to get technical, Sherron did miss a few games his freshman and sophomore seasons with injury. The victory total is safe, if people care to look at actual games played.

The all-time wins battle with UNC, while memorable, really isn't a big deal. I assume they will bounce back next year and jump back ahead, while KU has some trouble rebuilding with Collins/Aldrich/Henry in the NBA.

It has been kind of funny to watch the reaction over on IC. The 2000 win countdown was pinned to the top since last season with much fanfare. It has disappeared since the turn of the year... Shocking, I know.

[Jderf]

I don't know if this has been touched on elsewhere, but it's starting to look like UNC could very well post fewer wins than losses this year.

They are 14-13. They are a broken team. Their last four games are FSU, Wake, Miami, then us. Miami at the Dean Dome is probably the only game were I would begin to possibly consider UNC to maybe, just maybe be favorites. The others will all be very, very tough for them. After that it's the ACC tournament and then the NIT (maybe?). It's not certain, but a losing season certainly seems possible, at the very least.

Let the speculation begin.
(... unless it has already begun on another post, in which case delete this.)

[MarkD83]

With their win tonight over Oklahoma, Kansas has moved just one win behind UNC on the all-time win listing. (UNC is at 1,998 and Kansas is at 1,997.)

Carolina's next four games are FSU, @Wake, Miami, @Duke. They have to go 2-4 to hit 2,000 wins, which is possible if they take both of their home games, but FSU won't be easy and Miami may give them a battle also.

Kansas has three games before their conference tournament. @OK State, KSU, @Missouri. They could win out, but those are three pretty tough games, much more difficult for Kansas to win 3 and get to 2,000 before Carolina hits the mark.

Of course in the longer run it won't matter -- Kansas is almost certainly going to be ahead of Carolina by the end of the year. That's amazing, given that Carolina had a lead of a dozen games when the season started.

(Duke, by the way, is 4th on the all time list, with 1,901 wins. Kentucky is 1st, with 2,014.)

The 2000th win for UNC is the kind of early season motivational tool that Roy likes to use to get a team going. It would be interesting if UNC wins 3 more this year so that, this type of motivational tool is not in his bag of tricks next Fall.

[CameronBornAndBred]

http://media2.newsobserver.com/smedia/2010/02/25/00/bkcunc0225_G4C15C1C4.1+UNC04-SP-022410-RTW.highlight.prod_affiliate.156.jpg

Ahhh, just saw someone posted this in the unc-fsu thread, but still, what a great picture.

[devildeac]

http://media2.newsobserver.com/smedia/2010/02/25/00/bkcunc0225_G4C15C1C4.1+UNC04-SP-022410-RTW.highlight.prod_affiliate.156.jpg

Ahhh, just saw someone posted this in the unc-fsu thread, but still, what a great picture.

Caption contest?

[moonpie23]

i guess you CAN lick carolina !!

or


Looks like EVERYONE is licking Carolina !

[davekay1971]

Almost time to amend the thread title to "The Official Carolina Sucks and won't be in the NIT thread".

Savoring the flavor (just like Will Graves)

[94duke]

http://media2.newsobserver.com/smedia/2010/02/25/00/bkcunc0225_G4C15C1C4.1+UNC04-SP-022410-RTW.highlight.prod_affiliate.156.jpg

Mmmm. Tastes like chicken.

[Channing]

a quick comment on LDII's comment regarding attendance: the fact of the matter isnt that people arent interested in spending money. My guess is that most of the seats to most games (especially ACC games) in the Dean Dome are sold out long before the season starts.

The real issue is that people dont want to waste their time, and view going to a carolina game as a sunk cost.

[dball]

http://media2.newsobserver.com/smedia/2010/02/25/00/bkcunc0225_G4C15C1C4.1+UNC04-SP-022410-RTW.highlight.prod_affiliate.156.jpg

Mmmm. Tastes like chicken.

Almost funnier is when Graves hits a three and gives the "hard eyes, I'm a baad man stare" going down court. Only problem was the 3 brought the Heels within SEVENTEEN.

[bass-piscator]

I know he'd never do it but wouldn't be awesome if K started the bench against the holes.

[natedog4ever]

http://media2.newsobserver.com/smedia/2010/02/25/00/bkcunc0225_G4C15C1C4.1+UNC04-SP-022410-RTW.highlight.prod_affiliate.156.jpg

Ahhh, just saw someone posted this in the unc-fsu thread, but still, what a great picture.

In this photo, Graves is a dead ringer for rapper Biz Markie. That in itself is funny as hell.

My caption? "Baby, you . . . got what I need . . .but you say he's just a friend . . ."

[El_Diablo]

The 2000th win for UNC is the kind of early season motivational tool that Roy likes to use to get a team going. It would be interesting if UNC wins 3 more this year so that, this type of motivational tool is not in his bag of tricks next Fall.

It would be great if UNC beat Miami, then won their first ACC tournament game before losing in the second round, and then got win #2000 in the NIT.

It would be nice to have that special piece of Carolina history be tainted with the NIT logos in all the pictures. :D

[CameronBornAndBred]

It would be nice to have that special piece of Carolina history be tainted with the NIT logos in all the pictures. :D
I was hating everything you said up until this part....that truly would be classic. I'm guessing the summer photoshop class might have a special project.

[striker219]

It would be great if UNC beat Miami, then won their first ACC tournament game before losing in the second round, and then got win #2000 in the NIT.

It would be nice to have that special piece of Carolina history be tainted with the NIT logos in all the pictures. :D

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but for the sake of history I might have to root for UNC to win a couple. God, it felt dirty just to type that. This isn't going to be easy.


Eyes on the prize. Eyes on the prize. Eyes on the prize...

[Indoor66]

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but for the sake of history I might have to root for UNC to win a couple. God, it felt dirty just to type that. This isn't going to be easy.


Eyes on the prize. Eyes on the prize. Eyes on the prize...

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo GTHC, GTHC, GTHC.

[Cockabeau]

Guys...a question for you.

What would UNC have to rank in the ACC for Duke to face them in the ACC tournament?:D

[davekay1971]

Guys...a question for you.

What would UNC have to rank in the ACC for Duke to face them in the ACC tournament?:D

Ideally, we win out and finish number 1 in the conference, while Carolina loses all their remaining games, State steals one somewhere, making Carolina DFL in the conference. That, in itself, would be wonderful. If Carolina then wins the 5-12 game on Thursday, they would face us on Friday.

In that situation, I might actually cheer for Carolina to win the 5-12 game just so Duke could have the fun of pounding those miserable slugs (hopefully) for the third time, completing and ending Carolina's losing season.

[El_Diablo]

Guys...a question for you.

What would UNC have to rank in the ACC for Duke to face them in the ACC tournament?:D

We could face anyone so long as the two teams keep winning. That said, if we're the top seed, we'd get the winner of the 8 vs. 9 game in our first game. In our second game, we'd get the winner of the 4 vs. 5/12. Of those options, I think the 12 seed is most realistic for the Tarholes...but they'd have to upset two teams in the FSU/WFU/VT/Clemson range to face us.

[El_Diablo]

Ideally, we win out and finish number 1 in the conference, while Carolina loses all their remaining games, State steals one somewhere, making Carolina DFL in the conference. That, in itself, would be wonderful. If Carolina then wins the 5-12 game on Thursday, they would face us on Friday.

In that situation, I might actually cheer for Carolina to win the 5-12 game just so Duke could have the fun of pounding those miserable slugs (hopefully) for the third time, completing and ending Carolina's losing season.

In that scenario, they'd have to beat the #4 seed on Friday. We wouldn't face them until Saturday...our second game, but their third game.

[davekay1971]

In that scenario, they'd have to beat the #4 seed on Friday. We wouldn't face them until Saturday...our second game, but their third game.

You are correct sir! I am shamed! Well, since I don't want their fans to have even the smidgen of pleasure of a 2 win run in the ACC tournament, I'll just go back to cheering against them every game like usual.

[BD80]

It would be great if UNC beat Miami, then won their first ACC tournament game before losing in the second round, and then got win #2000 in the NIT.

It would be nice to have that special piece of Carolina history be tainted with the NIT logos in all the pictures. :D

I'm rooting for unc to get #2000 in 2012!

Preferably in the fall :D

[moonpie23]

when is the last time some of you had CAT scans?????


i hope the FEW baby blue fans are selling their tickets out front 5 minutes BEFORE the half of their first game on thurs...



GTHC 9f9f9f9f9f9f9f9f

[El_Diablo]

You are correct sir! I am shamed! Well, since I don't want their fans to have even the smidgen of pleasure of a 2 win run in the ACC tournament, I'll just go back to cheering against them every game like usual.

Yeah, it would be nice to just see Clemson pound them into the ground in the first round.

Although I still want them to find a way to get win #2000 in a meaningless postseason tournament that they will be ashamed to reference ever again (NIT or CBI). Much better than the huge marketing extravaganza that will happen if it's like the first or second game next season, at home. I had enough of the lame "Carolina - 100 Years" crap this season. Let them celebrate this milestone at a neutral site against Rutgers, without a TV audience, as they wallow in the shame of the CBI.

[moonpie23]

Let them celebrate this milestone at a neutral site against Rutgers, without a TV audience, as they wallow in the shame of the CBI.


ok, i could be down with that....

[miramar]

Funny article. UNC, State, and Miami are all playing this week to see who will be the ACC cellar dweller.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/02/27/360885/battle-for-the-bottom-begins.html

Who would have thunk it?

[moonpie23]

i ran some numbers on this little calculator to see about how warm that NATIONAL TITLE BLANKET might be about right now...

looks like it's about freezing...

(engineers, please don't....for entertainment purposes only...)

[gumbomoop]

Funny article. UNC, State, and Miami are all playing this week to see who will be the ACC cellar dweller.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/02/27/360885/battle-for-the-bottom-begins.html

Who would have thunk it?

If you look carefully at the scenarios laid out in the NewsO article [or just look at remaining schedules], it's clear that UNC could finish DFL-solo, but most likely will finish DFL-duo; and, holding tie-breaker v NCSt, the Heels would be #11.

By likely, I mean simply that both UNC and NCSt have winnable H games [unless one cannot imagine Heels beating even Miami in DeanTown], but not easily winnable road games.

If UNC wins on road today [big if], they'll end 10 or 11. But an expected Heel loss today plus an upset win by NCSt does make a UNC-DFL-solo scenario likely.

I nominate me as that last person in the world to recognize how lousy these Heels could possibly be. And to prove it: I can at least imagine the Heels beating Wake. But I can't defend such a lunatic imagination. It's akin to Charlie Brown and that Lucy-football deal.

[El_Diablo]

http://www.dailytarheel.com/press-box/drew-considering-transfer-more-unc-notes

And now Will Graves has a sprained ankle.

[oldnavy]

http://www.dailytarheel.com/press-box/drew-considering-transfer-more-unc-notes

And now Will Graves has a sprained ankle.

Gotta be those silver shoes man! I am just surprised he doesn't have some type of disease from licking the floor at the dean dome! Yuk!

[davekay1971]

Gotta be those silver shoes man! I am just surprised he doesn't have some type of disease from licking the floor at the dean dome! Yuk!

Wouldn't entirely rule it out. Gonorrhea can get into a joint and cause a monoarthritis. Maybe the always-honest Carolina SID is using "sprained ankle" as a euphamism for the ugly truth.

[OldSchool]

After NC State's victory at Miami, three teams are tied at the bottom of the standings at 4-10:

NC: Miami at home, then at Duke

NC State: at VT, then BC at home

Miami: at UNC, then FSU at home

Of course, anything can happen in a given game, but with NC State on a mini-roll at the moment I have to think the Miami at UNC game will most likely decide the last-place finisher.

That will be a key game for Roy - if they lose to Miami, then they will probably need to beat Duke in Cameron to avoid last place, since I think NC State could well win one or both of their last two games.

[cptnflash]

Such a bummer that Wake blew it today. With NC State beating Miami, UNC would have been all alone in last place. It's starting to look a lot like last year in Winston-Salem.

[moonpie23]

A
That will be a key game for Roy - if they lose to Miami, then they will probably need to beat Duke in Cameron to avoid last place, since I think NC State could well win one or both of their last two games.


i don't want to see unc gain ANY momentum coming into cameron.....i don't care if they finish last, dead last, or sorta last....i just don't want them to have another win in CIS...

:mad:

[gofurman]

Doesn't a team have to have a .500 or is it a "better than .500" record to make the NIT?

I ask bc UNC is now 15-14 with Miami and Duke left - probably 16-15 going into acct.

can you be invited at 16-16 or do you have to be better than .500 win ? tks

[WiJoe]

i don't want to see unc gain ANY momentum coming into cameron.....i don't care if they finish last, dead last, or sorta last....i just don't want them to have another win in CIS...

:mad:


ABOUT TIME SOMEONE CAME UP WITH SOMETHING SMART IN THIS THREAD

THANK YOU, moonpie

[SeattleIrish]

NIT changed that rule (it did used to be a minimum of a .500 season). There is no such requirement now - I think it changed in 2006.

That said, the NIT has not accepted any team without a winning record, even with the new rule.

s.i.

[-bdbd]

:cool:
Doesn't a team have to have a .500 or is it a "better than .500" record to make the NIT?

I ask bc UNC is now 15-14 with Miami and Duke left - probably 16-15 going into acct.

can you be invited at 16-16 or do you have to be better than .500 win ? tks

UNC-who?

Technically, the NIT is no longer required to mandate .500 for admitting teams to its tournament. That said, no sub-.500 team has ever been invited. However, some teams at exactly .500 have been invited. Always funny if that team then loses its first game, thus finishing the year... yep, sub-.500 .

So, all NC@CH needs to do to "qualify" is to win one more game between Mia, @ Duke (Ha!) and in the ACCT. I think exactly .500 is a reasonable expectation. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY THEN AUTOMATICALLY ARE INVITED - THERE'S A COMMITTEE TO DECIDE THAT (one that is primarily manned by ex-coaches and supposedly looks at qualifications instead of name).

Go 'canes!


:cool:

[CrazieDUMB]

Not to be a downer here, but do you think that if UNC finished 500 there's any chance they won't be invited? They're one of the biggest names and have one of the biggest fan bases in all of college sports - IMO there's no way they don't get an invite from the NIT

[SCMatt33]

Not to be a downer here, but do you think that if UNC finished 500 there's any chance they won't be invited? They're one of the biggest names and have one of the biggest fan bases in all of college sports - IMO there's no way they don't get an invite from the NIT

That is no longer a consideration as the NIT now has an NCAA-type committee (without any ESPN representation). There is however, very little chance that they will miss out on the NIT with two (Mich St, Ohio St) and possible 3 (if Wake climbs back in) top 25 rpi wins, assuming they don't finish below .500.

[gumbomoop]

UNC could finish anywhere from #9-12 in ACC. Cannot rise to #8, as the absolute best they could finish is tied [at 6-10] with either UVa or BC for #8-9; and both UVa and BC have tiebreaker over UNC as result of win over Heels.

It's now [post-Wake] reasonable to think that UNC will defeat Miami, so it's likely that it will be up to Duke to end UNC's regular season at 5-11, and probably #10-11 slot for ACCT.

Should Duke not end UNC's "momentum" going into ACCT, then the Devils and Heels would probably meet for rubber match on Friday, March 12 at noon. Best to scotch that scenario next Sat in CIS.

[Faison1]

Look back to 2006 when UNC was pedestrian, and Duke looked good. Senior night. UNC upsets Duke. Not good.

I hope the team is ready for a throw-down no-holds-barred battle royale, because UNC definitely has the talent to beat anyone.

They just beat Wake at Wake, and that might have been the confidence they needed to close out the season on a good note.

[hudlow]

It wouldn't surprise me if the NCAA didn't make a last minute expansion in order to let the Tar Holes into the tourney.

[elvis14]

Not to be a downer here, but do you think that if UNC finished 500 there's any chance they won't be invited? They're one of the biggest names and have one of the biggest fan bases in all of college sports - IMO there's no way they don't get an invite from the NIT

I don't think they would even need to finish .500 to get invited. Heck they don't need to win another game, sadly. The ironic thing is that most of their 'fans' won't watch.

[ReformedAggie]

who else wouldn't love to see them go to the NIT and get eliminated in the first round. almost better than not going at all IMO

[moonpie23]

They're one of the biggest names and have one of the biggest fan bases in all of college sports


The ironic thing is that most of their 'fans' won't watch.

not ONE of the biggest names.....THE biggest names....and it will be THE biggest story.....the NIT will let them in.....and feature every step they take..


and the holes will watch i'm afraid......look for the NIT to become MORE important than the NCAA this season (according to the holes)....they will try to make whatever "run" in the NIT they make somehow overshadow anything duke does in the NCAA.......wait and see...

[Kdogg]

If they can not make the N.I.T., there is always the College Basketball Invitational. :) As long as they are no worse than two games under .500 they will be in the N.I.T.

[BD80]

If they can not make the N.I.T., there is always the College Basketball Invitational. :) As long as they are no worse than two games under .500 they will be in the N.I.T.

IF. Yes I said IF.

IF unc would win the CBI, would they raise the CBI banner in the dean dome?

OF COURSE THEY WOULD!!

Its as much of a championship as anything the Helms Foundation ever awarded.

[pfrduke]

Look back to 2006 when UNC was pedestrian, and Duke looked good. Senior night. UNC upsets Duke. Not good.

I hope the team is ready for a throw-down no-holds-barred battle royale, because UNC definitely has the talent to beat anyone.

They just beat Wake at Wake, and that might have been the confidence they needed to close out the season on a good note.

There is a world of difference between the 2006 Heels and the 2010 Heels. Calling the 2006 team "pedestrian" isn't accurate. They came into the game against Duke with a 20-6 record, including 11-4 in conference, and had won 9 of their last 10 games. That team finished the season ranked 8th in Pomeroy, and earned a 3 seed in the NCAAT (losing to George Mason - ha!).

This year's team, by contrast is currently 15-14, 4-10 in conference, and has lost 10 of its last 13, and hasn't won outside of the state of NC in 2010. The 2006 Tar Heels were a very good team. The 2010 Tar Heels are pedestrian.

None of this, of course, guarantees any result next weekend. But it's really not fair to suggest that this is the same situation as 2006.

[calltheobvious]

Look back to 2006 when UNC was pedestrian, and Duke looked good. Senior night. UNC upsets Duke. Not good.

I hope the team is ready for a throw-down no-holds-barred battle royale, because UNC definitely has the talent to beat anyone.

They just beat Wake at Wake, and that might have been the confidence they needed to close out the season on a good note.

This myth may have already taken permanent hold, but I can't let it pass without pointing out a few relevant details about where Duke and UNC were coming into that game:

1) Carolina had won nine of ten, with their only loss being by four points at the hands of Duke; and none of those victories had been by single-digits. Check out their roster that year. It wasn't a bunch of scrap.

2) Duke hadn't looked all that impressive in their three games leading up to Senior Day, including a 5-point loss at Tallahassee three days earlier (they had won at Tech and at Temple by eight each).

3) In those three games, Redick was a combined 18/59. So his 5/21 against Carolina wasn't like some earth-shattering outlier.

This isn't to say that UNC can't win next Saturday. But if they do, it's going to take something a lot more extraordinary than what we saw four years ago.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see pfrduke beat me to a lot of this.

[pfrduke]

This myth may have already taken permanent hold, but I can't let it pass without pointing out a few relevant details about where Duke and UNC were coming into that game:

1) Carolina had won nine of ten, with their only loss being by four points at the hands of Duke; and none of those victories had been by single-digits. Check out their roster that year. It wasn't a bunch of scrap.

2) Duke hadn't looked all that impressive in their three games leading up to Senior Day, including a 5-point loss at Tallahassee three days earlier (they had won at Tech and at Temple by eight each).

3) In those three games, Redick was a combined 18/59. So his 5/21 against Carolina wasn't like some earth-shattering outlier.

This isn't to say that UNC can't win next Saturday. But if they do, it's going to take something a lot more extraordinary than what we saw four years ago.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see pfrduke beat me to a lot of this.

That UNC team actually ended up finishing with the best efficiency margin in conference play that year, even though Duke was 2 games ahead in the standings. We beat conference opponents by an average of 12.77 points every 100 possessions, and UNC won by an average of 12.92 points. Admittedly, much of this came from the 45 point beat-down they laid on UVA right before beating us in Cameron, but still, they essentially played at a level equal to us relative to ACC competition that season.

This season, by contrast, Carolina is being outscored by conference opponents by 6.65 points per 100, while we outscore opponents by 14.3 points per 100. A point worth mentioning, when looking at those numbers, is that this team has been better, relative to conference opponents, than the 2006 team was.

[NYC Duke Fan]

This might sound like blasphemy, but I would not count out UNC possibly winning the ACC tournament and going to the NCAA tournament. It could happen.

They looked pretty good yesterday beating Wake at Wake so their demise might be pre-mature.

[moonpie23]

that is why i admonish EVERYONE on here to just keep it zipped with the predictions of a beat down...


let's just get it done........i hate thinking of them getting a win at CSI....i just hate it......

[Duvall]

This might sound like blasphemy, but I would not count out UNC possibly winning the ACC tournament and going to the NCAA tournament. It could happen.

Well yes, it could happen. They are certainly going to get invited to the ACC Tournament. But this team has won four games against ACC competition all year; winning four more games in one weekend would require a substantially stronger performance than the Heels have mustered thus far this year.

[Maxwell1977]

This might sound like blasphemy, but I would not count out UNC possibly winning the ACC tournament and going to the NCAA tournament. It could happen.

They looked pretty good yesterday beating Wake at Wake so their demise might be pre-mature.

Then there's the more likely scenario of pigs flying.

[pfrduke]

Well yes, it could happen. They are certainly going to get invited to the ACC Tournament. But this team has won four games against ACC competition all year; winning four more games in one weekend would require a substantially stronger performance than the Heels have mustered thus far this year.

It's worth noting that they'd likely have to beat at least 2 (if not 3) of Duke, Clemson, Maryland, Georgia Tech, and Florida State, teams that are (thus far) 6-0 against the Heels and have outscored them by a total of 79 points, with 5 of the wins in double figures. Beating a mediocre Wake Forest (6 of Wake's conference wins are against UNC, UVA, NC St, Miami, and BC) team by 9 yesterday does not mean they've shown in ACC play that they have what it takes to beat 2 or 3 of the best teams in the conference on back to back (to back) days.

[Faison1]

There is a world of difference between the 2006 Heels and the 2010 Heels. Calling the 2006 team "pedestrian" isn't accurate. They came into the game against Duke with a 20-6 record, including 11-4 in conference, and had won 9 of their last 10 games. That team finished the season ranked 8th in Pomeroy, and earned a 3 seed in the NCAAT (losing to George Mason - ha!).

This year's team, by contrast is currently 15-14, 4-10 in conference, and has lost 10 of its last 13, and hasn't won outside of the state of NC in 2010. The 2006 Tar Heels were a very good team. The 2010 Tar Heels are pedestrian.

None of this, of course, guarantees any result next weekend. But it's really not fair to suggest that this is the same situation as 2006.

Well, OK. Let me re-phrase then. I still think the 2006 team was pretty ordinary, certainly not great, and therefore, judged against UNC standards, pretty pedestrian.

However, I would not call 2010 UNC pedestrian. I would say, "THEY SUCK!! AND I HOPE THEY LOSE FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES, AND TAKE THAT HELMS BANNER TO HELL WHERE THEY ALL BELONG!"

[natedog4ever]

Well, I got it straight from the huck's mouth tonight.

On Roy's weekly radio show I asked:

"Would the team participate in the CBI tournament if the NIT is not an option?"

Roy's response:
1) Only one big goal for all of us coaches.
2) Never finished lower than fifth in any conference, so these are uncharted waters.
3) Not thinking about anything else but winning.

Take it for what you will.

I was looking for a simple "yes" or "no".

[Newton_14]

Well, I got it straight from the huck's mouth tonight.

On Roy's weekly radio show I asked:

"Would the team participate in the CBI tournament if the NIT is not an option?"

Roy's response:
1) Only one big goal for all of us coaches.
2) Never finished lower than fifth in any conference, so these are uncharted waters.
3) Not thinking about anything else but winning.

Take it for what you will.

I was looking for a simple "yes" or "no".


Translation: Huck expects them to run the table including the ACC Tourney and make the Big Dance.

[CDu]

Translation: Huck expects them to run the table including the ACC Tourney and make the Big Dance.

I think a slightly better translation: Ole Roy doesn't expect to be bypassed by the NIT in the worst case, and still holds out a small hope that they could somehow win the ACC tournament.

[Newton_14]

I think a slightly better translation: Ole Roy doesn't expect to be bypassed by the NIT in the worst case, and still holds out a small hope that they could somehow win the ACC tournament.

Agree but that arrogance over there is unlike any other I have ever seen. Remember the year, I believe it was 2003, when they had lost 14 regular season games but pulled a fairly big upset against Maryland in the first round of the ACC tourney? The next day against Duke they trotted out Sean May who had missed most of the year with the injury. May was not supposed to be ready yet, and in actuality he wasn't. My point is when they upset Maryland they seemed to be convinced they could bring May back, beat Duke and take the ACC title the next day to get into the Big Dance. Thankfully Duke ran them out of the gym..

I am biased for sure, but I actually thought the win Saturday against Wake was more about how bad Wake played rather than how well unc played. Aminu and Ish Smith were both pretty bad in that game. unc played better, but had Wake played a strong game, they would have won.

I agee unc should not be taken for granted, especially this Saturday, but no way they win 4 games in 4 days in the ACC tourney.

[shoutingncu]

Agree but that arrogance over there is unlike any other I have ever seen. Remember the year, I believe it was 2003, when they had lost 14 regular season games but pulled a fairly big upset against Maryland in the first round of the ACC tourney? The next day against Duke they trotted out Sean May who had missed most of the year with the injury. May was not supposed to be ready yet, and in actuality he wasn't. My point is when they upset Maryland they seemed to be convinced they could bring May back, beat Duke and take the ACC title the next day to get into the Big Dance. Thankfully Duke ran them out of the gym..

I am biased for sure, but I actually thought the win Saturday against Wake was more about how bad Wake played rather than how well unc played. Aminu and Ish Smith were both pretty bad in that game. unc played better, but had Wake played a strong game, they would have won.

I agee unc should not be taken for granted, especially this Saturday, but no way they win 4 games in 4 days in the ACC tourney.

There was a little bit of justification for that belief (that I widely shared) from the week before (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=230680153).

As I recall, Duke and Maryland were two of the best teams in conference that year, so beating them both in the same week had to be a confidence builder for a team that started the season pretty strong.

Now... anyone who thinks we'll beat Duke in the ACC Tourney this year, regardless of what happens on Saturday, is showing some arrogance (not in the beating Duke part... of course I have to believe we can do that... but in actually making it to day two ;))

[Newton_14]

There was a little bit of justification for that belief (that I widely shared) from the week before (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=230680153).

As I recall, Duke and Maryland were two of the best teams in conference that year, so beating them both in the same week had to be a confidence builder for a team that started the season pretty strong.

Now... anyone who thinks we'll beat Duke in the ACC Tourney this year, regardless of what happens on Saturday, is showing some arrogance (not in the beating Duke part... of course I have to believe we can do that... but in actually making it to day two ;))

Fair point. But it was still pretty unrealistic to think they could win the ACC tourney that year. You have proven to be very different than the heel fans I have grown up with so your sanity is appreciated. And I am scared to death of next Saturday. We should win for sure. But I have seen guys become paralyzed on Senior Day and play out of their minds in a bad way, so you never know.

But as for the ACC Tourney I don't see a scenario where unc could overcome the obstacles in the way of winning 4 games in 4 days with 3 of the games against the top teams in the league.

[CDu]

I am biased for sure, but I actually thought the win Saturday against Wake was more about how bad Wake played rather than how well unc played. Aminu and Ish Smith were both pretty bad in that game. unc played better, but had Wake played a strong game, they would have won.

I agee unc should not be taken for granted, especially this Saturday, but no way they win 4 games in 4 days in the ACC tourney.

I'll stay away from the commentary on the arrogance of the UNC fanbase in general, but I basically agree with these points. But as a coach, Williams has to believe (and sell his team on the belief) that they can win four games in four days against four tourney-quality teams. Also, they're very unlikely to need the CBI anyway.

The Wake game was an example of good UNC defense on Smith and Aminu, and poor decisions by those two. But offensively, I feel like Wake is one of the least talented of the tourney-bound ACC teams (along with FSU and VT). They're probably among the worst defensively out of those seven as well. I'd say that they and VT are the 6th/7th best teams in the conference. As such, some of the luster falls off the win for UNC. I don't see UNC getting through (likely) three of the top five teams in the ACC on consecutive days (four if they avoid Wake and VT on Thursday).

[Newton_14]

I'll stay away from the commentary on the arrogance of the UNC fanbase in general, but I basically agree with these points. But as a coach, Williams has to believe (and sell his team on the belief) that they can win four games in four days against four tourney-quality teams. Also, they're very unlikely to need the CBI anyway.

The Wake game was an example of good UNC defense on Smith and Aminu, and poor decisions by those two. But offensively, I feel like Wake is one of the least talented of the tourney-bound ACC teams (along with FSU and VT). They're probably among the worst defensively out of those seven as well. I'd say that they and VT are the 6th/7th best teams in the conference. As such, some of the luster falls off the win for UNC. I don't see UNC getting through (likely) three of the top five teams in the ACC on consecutive days (four if they avoid Wake and VT on Thursday).

The defense and then the offense from McDonald were huge. That came out of no where and gave them a huge lift. Poorly coached game as usual by Gaudio as well. With about 3 minutes left in the game, Aminu had taken like 5 total shots for the game. Awful. The guy is probably the most talented player in the league and your offense gets him 7 shots total. Big Mistake.

I thought Wake really took the heels for granted and played like they had a 20 point lead from the opening tip. Then they panicked once they figured out they were in a game..

[CDu]

The defense and then the offense from McDonald were huge. That came out of no where and gave them a huge lift. Poorly coached game as usual by Gaudio as well. With about 3 minutes left in the game, Aminu had take like 5 total shots for the game. Awful. The guy is probably the most talented player in the league and your offense gets him 7 shots total. Big Mistake.

I thought Wake really took the heels for granted and played like they had a 20 point lead from the opening tip. Then they panicked once they figured out they were in a game..

Part of that was that UNC was really crowding Aminu out in the post and daring Wake to shoot from the perimeter (which is not their strength). Wake didn't really have an answer for that. They also did a surprisingly good job on Ish Smith, who helped by having a terrible shooting performance.

It was a good defensive effort from UNC, but it was made more possible by Wake not being a terribly good offensive team and not being a very well-coached team either.

[YourLandlord]

http://espn.go.com/ncb/gamecast?gameId=300610153

ESPN not even running a GameCast for the UNC game tonight -- only the score.

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

[YourLandlord]

okay it's finally up and running at halftime.

[miramar]

At the beginning of the second half UM was making the 2010 Tar Heels look like the 2009 version. They have now cut it to 7 with a little over 10 minutes to go, but it's amazing to think that both of these teams were ranked in the top 25 back in January. As Dan LeBatard told Wilbon on ESPN this afternoon, "These are two bad teams."

[YourLandlord]

c'mon 'canes!

[miramar]

if they were going to win their 2,000th game, at least it was to get out of last place. Once again UNC celebrates the silver anniversary of Air Jordans by making an opposing guard want to be like Mike, in this case freshman Durand Scott, who finishes with 30.

[gofurman]

was Dwayne Collins hurt? I saw someone wearing a warm-up jacket on the Candes bench, he is listed as playing but they kept showing someone on the bench

[Delaware]

Awful coaching, awful discipline, awful execution...

almost any team in the league would have beat UNC tonight... 17+ turnovers for the light blues. Miami took so many early in the clock, contested threes.... ugh. And Haith picks this game to send Collins a message (I think... hope he is not hurt).

[moonpie23]

i know we play MD tomorrow, but unc will come in believing with every fiber of roy's little finger that beating us will get them a bid...

we can not misunderestimate them.....

[Duvall]

i know we play MD tomorrow, but unc will come in believing with every fiber of roy's little finger that beating us will get them a bid...


It wouldn't.

[Osiagledknarf]

i know we play MD tomorrow, but unc will come in believing with every fiber of roy's little finger that beating us will get them a bid...

we can not misunderestimate them.....


I really don't see how they could get an at large bid. Going 4-10 in a rather weak ACC and losing to the likes of Charleston college won't go well with the commitee.

Despite there rash of injuries, if they don't win the ACC tourney there not in. There is no other way around it no matter how Roy thinks.

[jv001]

Awful coaching, awful discipline, awful execution...

almost any team in the league would have beat UNC tonight... 17+ turnovers for the light blues. Miami took so many early in the clock, contested threes.... ugh. And Haith picks this game to send Collins a message (I think... hope he is not hurt).

Two terrible teams..Miami & unc. 30+ threes from the Hurricanes and unc still throwing the ball all over the arena, fumbling balls, etc. You would think as badly as Miami shot the 3 as a team, they would have gotten more offensive rebounds, but with Collins hurt and on the bench that was not going to happen. If unc feels good about that win, then they have sunk father than I thought. Go Duke!

[jjasper0729]

unc did everything they could to give that game to miami with all the turnovers. i have never seen such inept offensive execution (guess you could call it an execution of the offense for the canes). there were very few attempts to work the ball for a good shot. all the threes being thrown up and no attempt to crash the boards. the only good shots they got were when they were able to get fast break opportunities. and that team can't hit a free throw if their lives depend on it.

[CrazieDUMB]

Even with UNC still bottom feeding in the ACC, it still bothers me that they win. It makes no sense to me why two wins in a row would upset me, but man i hate the holes.

I guess I'm just disappointed that a losing season is impossible for them now. Unless they lose their opener in the ACC and NIT... hmmm.....

[moonpie23]

you are correct.....they are now talking even more loudly about running the table at the ACC and getting into the big dance..


gotta keep a boot on their throat...

[shoutingncu]

i know we play MD tomorrow, but unc will come in believing with every fiber of roy's little finger that beating us will get them a bid...

we can not misunderestimate them.....

No one reasonable should be thinking that simply beating Duke would get Carolina in. But there is a somewhat less irrational thought that beating Duke and making it to the finals of the ACC Tournament might. That would be 20 wins and recent high profile victories (Duke in Cameron and whoever we'd upset along the way next weekend).

Personally, I believe myself to be even less irrational than that. It didn't work for NC State in 2007 (with us as their marquee conference win before the tournament) and it won't work for us, either, even if it somehow happened. That said, I think we win no more than two games the rest of the way. (I'll reserve judgment on which two until the MBB Duke vs Carolina Pre-Game Thread ;))

[Jderf]

In any case, congrats to UNC and seemingly dodging the threat of a losing season. (Though it's still possible...)

[hq2]

Kept hoping they'd have one as bad as that 8-20 debacle they had a few years ago under D'oh (see Homer Simpson), but not to be. Still, always fun to see them lose, especially when they just won the national championship. Nothing could be finer!

[BD80]

I will NOT allow this thread to drift into obsolescence.

A Duke win and unc's momentum is GONE!

[moonpie23]

very true.....let's hope duke puts the hammer down on any good vibes that seem to be stewing over in that "place".....

[UConnJack]

With UNC out AND UConn out of the tournament, you guys must be just tickled pink. Too bad Maryland wasn't out too, you wouldn't know what to do with yourselves.

[77devil]

With UNC out AND UConn out of the tournament, you guys must be just tickled pink. Too bad Maryland wasn't out too, you wouldn't know what to do with yourselves.

And Duke kicked UConn's a** in the Garden. Not a bad year so far. Enjoy the NIT.

[Rogue]

:D dadgumit, it's time to help 'ole roy lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeC2EGkZeGM

[dukeballer2294]

i am super ecstatic about the win but enough with the "unc will not make the nit" talk, nit needs sponsors and more viewers a carolina uconn game will get it for them

[Bluedevil114]

UNC has no heart. I was really getting tired of Dickie V talking about how much passion Ole Roy has. If he has that much passion and he is that great of a coach then get the talent you have to perform. Four years ago we were the youngest team Coach K has ever coached but we always played with heart. UNC should be ashamed.

But I am loving it. There two lowest point performances of the season were against Duke. Great game tonight!!

[elvis14]

I said I'd be quiet about the hapless Holes until after we beat them at home.



They are awful. I mean they really suck not just the usual "you suck" you get from rival fans but they really really suck.
Roy has done a terrible job of coaching and a terrible job of supporting his players in public. ESPN can make excuses for him all they want the bottom line is their golden boy coach isn't getting it done at all.
Carolina Blue is the ugliest color on the planet
UNC fans around here (meaning RTP, not DBR, the UNC fans on DBR are good guys who understand that the teams that are not UNC are not Jr. High School teams) are not supporting their team and the Dean Dump is 2/3 empty for their games.
82-50
I love 1-5 above and I could post 50 more similar comments

9F
82-50!

[Billy Dat]

UNC has no heart. I was really getting tired of Dickie V talking about how much passion Ole Roy has. If he has that much passion and he is that great of a coach then get the talent you have to perform. Four years ago we were the youngest team Coach K has ever coached but we always played with heart. UNC should be ashamed.

But I am loving it. There two lowest point performances of the season were against Duke. Great game tonight!!

No doubt, you captured my thoughts throughout the game whenever I heard Vitale saying how sorry he feels for Roy, like he has no part in what's gone on there this year. Let's just hope the young guns' confidence is so shot that it bleeds into next year. I think we effectively ended their year tonight...I can't see how they rebound to run the table in Greensboro.

[DevilHorns]

They are awful. I mean they really suck not just the usual "you suck" you get from rival fans but they really really suck.


Oh this is a beautiful comment. I cant stop laughing.

[roywhite]

The Heels do suck...10th place in the conference is an accurate gauge of their performance this year.

Interesting observation (don't know if I saw it on one of these threads, or elsewhere) but the Heels need their 3 incoming freshmen next year (Barnes, Marshall, and Bullock) to be not just good, but very good, or great. The 2009-10 perimeter was awful, and each of the freshmen could start, or certainly get major playing time. They need better shooting, passing, and defense on the perimeter---it's asking a lot for the freshmen, even those with the usual McD, Parade A-A pedigree to deliver that fully in their first year.

The 2010-11 season for the Heels will be very interesting to watch, likely much better than this season, but still short of their good teams of recent years?

[oldnavy]

UNC has no heart. I was really getting tired of Dickie V talking about how much passion Ole Roy has. If he has that much passion and he is that great of a coach then get the talent you have to perform. Four years ago we were the youngest team Coach K has ever coached but we always played with heart. UNC should be ashamed.

But I am loving it. There two lowest point performances of the season were against Duke. Great game tonight!!

Passion is meaningless unless you have a winning strategy to put the passion behind. You want to see passion, go to any little league game and watch the coaches there. Passion is bubbling over at those games. Maybe a little less passion and a little more flexibility and adaptability. Roy was passionate about trying to pound square pegs into round holes.

[gumbomoop]

The Heels do suck...10th place in the conference is an accurate gauge of their performance this year.

Interesting observation (don't know if I saw it on one of these threads, or elsewhere) but the Heels need their 3 incoming freshmen next year (Barnes, Marshall, and Bullock) to be not just good, but very good, or great. The 2009-10 perimeter was awful, and each of the freshmen could start, or certainly get major playing time. They need better shooting, passing, and defense on the perimeter---it's asking a lot for the freshmen, even those with the usual McD, Parade A-A pedigree to deliver that fully in their first year.

The 2010-11 season for the Heels will be very interesting to watch, likely much better than this season, but still short of their good teams of recent years?

Coming into this season, the major arguments re top of ACC were (1) Duke v. UNC, and which team had more ?-marks, and (2) which team, if any, would emerge to challenge the Big 2, or at least emerge as clear 3d-best.

Taking (2) first, I was certain GaT would emerge, was politely reminded by several posters that PH was the coach in question and that I should reconsider. Good advice; I recant.

On (1): We all now know that Duke answered its ?-marks rather more thoroughly than did UNC, possibly enough for very deep NCAAT run. The big ?s for Heels involved PG and perimeter shooting. PG ?-mark devolved at midseason into, "Does LDII suck?" I defended him from this charge [?], admitting that he made some god-awful passes, but by season's end we know [what some of you knew all along] that ? wasn't answered. Nor the ? re perimeter shooting. And a 3d, much bigger ? emerged, exemplified last eve to the horror of Heel fans still watching, and to delight of Devil fans glued to the Carolina Comedy of Errors [CCE]: call it chemistry, commitment, effort [CCE]. [Wait, maybe there's a CCE tourney to which the Heels will be invited.]

So, I agree with roywhite that next year's Heels will be interesting, and surely better, as they cannot get worse. Cannot, no way.

Frontline: Henson is coming on D, needs much work on handle. Zeller, if uninjured, can play, and Wears are serviceable back-ups. Ed Davis I assume is gone, but if back, along with HB as a sometime-4, that front line looks as imposing as this year's. Uh, but that non-? turned into a ?, so even next year's frontline is..... a ?

Perimeter: seems like a lot of talent, or maybe potential talent, so much so that I keep thinking McDonald will transfer/redshirt. Whatever, once Strickland moves to SG, he's got ability. The 2 new superwings are said to be ...... super. And Graves can shoot, if not much else.

PG: ?-marks, both of them. Not Ty Lawson. [Nor KI.] You know the argument.

CCE: ?-marks.

Coaching: ?-marks.

Very interesting, absolutely. Can next year's talent overcome the lingering, embarrassing impact of this year's lack of CCE? This year's lack of coaching? A veritable psychodrama in the making.

[DevilHorns]

What I find bizarre are all the UNC fans saying something to the effect of "oh I know we would be bad, but I can't imagine it ever being this bad."

False. UNC fans thought this was a team that could make a deep run at the title. Hell as a Duke fan I actually thought it could be possible. You guys are loaded with talent on paper. I remember my UNC friends telling me "We won a championship, and we're reloaded, and now we start the season as a top-5 team."

I don't want to hear any "cushioning" from any UNC fans. Don't act like you noticed the titanic was sinking before it hit the iceberg. This season is a testament to what terrible coaching and unmotivated players can do if they get in sync and really do all in their power to not make adjustments and stay unmotivated. Don't you all forget it.

[jjasper0729]

can't believe i'm saying this.. but tudor has the right point in the N&O today... that carolina is playing like an AAU summer squad

[Rogue]

For this 2009-2010 season,, unc-ch is offically the fire hydrant,, not just the rival dawgs,, every dawg that walks by gets to do what dawgs do to fire hydrants.:D