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KandG
02-04-2010, 06:07 PM
Confirms what many of us have seen lately, unfortunately. Hope Kyle bounces back.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NCAA-Weekly-Performers-2410-3388/

Excerpt:

"From a scouting perspective, however, Singler has yet to reach the potential his lofty recruiting rankings indicated and does not appear to have improved all that much from last year, even taking somewhat of a step back in the minds of some."

Hermy-own
02-04-2010, 06:54 PM
"He will almost surely test the NBA draft waters this summer"

Does this mean the author thinks he is 'almost surely' gone, or that he will 'almost surely' explore all options, before deciding whether to stay or go?

mo.st.dukie
02-04-2010, 06:58 PM
"He will almost surely test the NBA draft waters this summer"

Does this mean the author thinks he is 'almost surely' gone, or that he will 'almost surely' explore all options, before deciding whether to stay or go?

There's no reason that both Kyle and Nolan shouldn't test the waters to get some feedback on where they stand and what they need to work on to improve their draft status. They're juniors, there's no harm in doing so.

The good thing for fans and for the coaching staff is that I believe the deadline to withdraw from the draft is May 8th giving them essentially 1 month to gauge where they stand.

flyingdutchdevil
02-04-2010, 09:19 PM
There's no reason that both Kyle and Nolan shouldn't test the waters to get some feedback on where they stand and what they need to work on to improve their draft status. They're juniors, there's no harm in doing so.

The good thing for fans and for the coaching staff is that I believe the deadline to withdraw from the draft is May 8th giving them essentially 1 month to gauge where they stand.

Fantastic point. IMO, both Digler and Smith should declare for the draft and see what they need to work on in the off season. Can't hurt them, right?

FireOgilvie
02-04-2010, 09:28 PM
I know that there was talk about a recent rule that basically eliminated the concept of "testing the waters" playing in a lot of camps, etc. with other potential draftees. It was something about minimizing/eliminating pre-draft camps and shortening the period of time before a player has to declare...

chrisheery
02-04-2010, 09:32 PM
I hope Kyle saw that scouting report. Perhaps his answer was shooting 8-10 from 3 and telling scouts to shove it.

KandG
02-05-2010, 01:03 PM
I'm glad Kyle responded as well as he did last night. The only thing that concerned me about the report is the perception that his play has regressed, and that he should have considered leaving earlier (which would have been a questionable decision, IMO). Hope he builds on last night and shows the country just how good he is on a more consistent basis.

rhcpflea99
02-05-2010, 01:35 PM
Regress how? His defense has improve, the guy hustles every play. I never see the guy take a play off. Coach K has said a million time. Duke has idea on were the players stand in the draft there is no need to test the nba waters unless you are enter the draft for good.

duke4life32182
02-05-2010, 01:36 PM
If he plays like last night all the time we are going to be National Champs and he will be in the NBA. I hope Singler comes back for his senior year, but if there is millions on the table it would be hard to tunr down, unless his family has money. If thats the case stay at Duke and play the 4 years. I bet Henderson is wishing he did.

CDu
02-05-2010, 03:08 PM
If he plays like last night all the time we are going to be National Champs and he will be in the NBA. I hope Singler comes back for his senior year, but if there is millions on the table it would be hard to tunr down, unless his family has money. If thats the case stay at Duke and play the 4 years. I bet Henderson is wishing he did.

If he plays like he did last night he'd set all sorts of records. He's not going to shoot like that every night. Let's enjoy last night for what it was - an otherwordly shooting effort from him from 3pt range.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-05-2010, 03:08 PM
I remember reading an article on ESPN a while back on players who stayed in school and it ended up hurting their draft status. Off the top of my head, I can't really remember any other than LaRon Profit who as a freshman at MD was a stud and by the time he was a senior, he was projected as going undrafted. Everyone is different and responds differently to situations they are in. For instance, Shavlik Randolph and Josh McRoberts could've certainly improved from their sophomore seasons, but honestly, I think both of them thought that if they stayed, it would hurt their status more so they declared when their stock was still somewhat high. They just probably weren't comfortable with the stituation they were in. McRoberts was asked to be "the man" and he wasn't really up to it. I dont think Singler is in their same shoes, but he could view it differently, I don't know. What could he really improve on with another year at Duke? Honestly, I don't think a whole lot other than his FG%. Anyone care to add on?

CDu
02-05-2010, 03:12 PM
Regress how? His defense has improve, the guy hustles every play. I never see the guy take a play off. Coach K has said a million time. Duke has idea on were the players stand in the draft there is no need to test the nba waters unless you are enter the draft for good.

Regress in the fact that (prior to last night's phenomenal effort) his numbers have actually gone down slightly almost across the board despite playing an expanded offensive role. He certainly has had no regression in terms of effort. The guy gives it everything every single night.

CDu
02-05-2010, 03:18 PM
I remember reading an article on ESPN a while back on players who stayed in school and it ended up hurting their draft status. Off the top of my head, I can't really remember any other than LaRon Profit who as a freshman at MD was a stud and by the time he was a senior, he was projected as going undrafted. Everyone is different and responds differently to situations they are in. For instance, Shavlik Randolph and Josh McRoberts could've certainly improved from their sophomore seasons, but honestly, I think both of them thought that if they stayed, it would hurt their status more so they declared when their stock was still somewhat high. They just probably weren't comfortable with the stituation they were in. McRoberts was asked to be "the man" and he wasn't really up to it. I dont think Singler is in their same shoes, but he could view it differently, I don't know. What could he really improve on with another year at Duke? Honestly, I don't think a whole lot other than his FG%. Anyone care to add on?

I think you might be thinking of Terrence Morris rather than Laron Profit. Profit really didn't explode as a college star until his junior year. Morris was the guy who had a great sophomore year and might have been a lottery pick. But he decided to come back. He never developed his game, and after his senior year he went as a 2nd round pick. His decision to stay cost him millions.

Jaymf7
02-05-2010, 03:20 PM
I remember reading an article on ESPN a while back on players who stayed in school and it ended up hurting their draft status. Off the top of my head, I can't really remember any other than LaRon Profit who as a freshman at MD was a stud and by the time he was a senior, he was projected as going undrafted. Everyone is different and responds differently to situations they are in. For instance, Shavlik Randolph and Josh McRoberts could've certainly improved from their sophomore seasons, but honestly, I think both of them thought that if they stayed, it would hurt their status more so they declared when their stock was still somewhat high. They just probably weren't comfortable with the stituation they were in. McRoberts was asked to be "the man" and he wasn't really up to it. I dont think Singler is in their same shoes, but he could view it differently, I don't know. What could he really improve on with another year at Duke? Honestly, I don't think a whole lot other than his FG%. Anyone care to add on?

I don't think anyone believes that Kyle is ready to light it up at the next level. His current draft stock reflects that thinking. He will be consistently matched up against faster, more athletic wings in the NBA. He needs to continue to work on his shot (to gain great consistency), defense against quick players, and general play from the wing. Think of what Dunleavy/Deng do on a nightly basis. Kyle is not close to there yet, and he would not likely get the PT next year to develop to his full potential while maintaining confidence (see the time it took JJ to adjust and regain his edge).

If he returns, Kyle will lead a powerhouse team and garner a great deal of national attention. With a good season and additional comfort playing on the wing, you would have to think his draft stock would improve greatly, yielding both (i) millions more in his rookie contract, and (ii) a better chance at a highly successful long-term NBA career.

PS -- With regard to Josh, I think his going pro early when he was nowhere near a lottery pick was a realization that he would not be able to substantially progress in K's system. His limitations were becoming evident and he thought it best to go quickly while he still had some perceived "upside." Based on his lack of PT through 3 years, it has not paid off much.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-05-2010, 04:07 PM
I think you might be thinking of Terrence Morris rather than Laron Profit. Profit really didn't explode as a college star until his junior year. Morris was the guy who had a great sophomore year and might have been a lottery pick. But he decided to come back. He never developed his game, and after his senior year he went as a 2nd round pick. His decision to stay cost him millions.


Terrence Morris! That's right. Thanks

In response to the last guy, I tend to think that GM's in the NBA know what they'll get with Kyle Singler, another year at Duke or not. They all know he can shoot the ball, I mean his form has been flawless since he got to Duke. I don't think he is a Mike Dunleavy type. He is more of a finesse type player, where Singler is more of a scrappy type. I think of a smaller version of Troy Murphy. Singler could improve his defense and get more comfortable on the wing, but I don't think he'll ever establish a game where he can handle the ball and break his defender down (ala Scottie Pippen, point forward type) and I think that's what some people are waiting for. We'll see though, I hope I am wrong because that's what I want for Duke.

CDu
02-05-2010, 04:14 PM
Terrence Morris! That's right. Thanks

In response to the last guy, I tend to think that GM's in the NBA know what they'll get with Kyle Singler, another year at Duke or not. They all know he can shoot the ball, I mean his form has been flawless since he got to Duke. I don't think he is a Mike Dunleavy type. He is more of a finesse type player, where Singler is more of a scrappy type. I think of a smaller version of Troy Murphy. Singler could improve his defense and get more comfortable on the wing, but I don't think he'll ever establish a game where he can handle the ball and break his defender down (ala Scottie Pippen, point forward type) and I think that's what some people are waiting for. We'll see though, I hope I am wrong because that's what I want for Duke.

Well, I don't think his draft stock will be that high this year. He may not even be a first rounder. So in that sense, there may be no rush to go early. In fact, he may decide that, since he's not a first-rounder, it'd be more fun t come back for his senior year and have a shot at a national championship. And he could always improve his draft stock if he can show better ballhandling/playmaking skills. Remember - nobody thought Redick would become a lottery pick by coming back, but that worked out well for him.

I agree that comparisons to Dunleavy are poor. Dunleavy was a better ballhandler and more of a guard/forward, whereas Singler is pretty clearly a forward. Dunleavy is a 2/3 at the NBA level, whereas Singler is a 3/4 whose size will make him a 3. I think the Matt Harpring comparison is the best-case scenario for Singler. They were similar players. Rugged, tough rebounders who could score in a variety of ways. Neither was a flawless shooter, but both could shoot well enough to warrant respect on the perimeter. Harpring was pretty fortunate to find a niche, and hopefully Singler can do the same.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-05-2010, 05:17 PM
Well, I don't think his draft stock will be that high this year. He may not even be a first rounder. So in that sense, there may be no rush to go early. In fact, he may decide that, since he's not a first-rounder, it'd be more fun t come back for his senior year and have a shot at a national championship. And he could always improve his draft stock if he can show better ballhandling/playmaking skills. Remember - nobody thought Redick would become a lottery pick by coming back, but that worked out well for him.

I agree that comparisons to Dunleavy are poor. Dunleavy was a better ballhandler and more of a guard/forward, whereas Singler is pretty clearly a forward. Dunleavy is a 2/3 at the NBA level, whereas Singler is a 3/4 whose size will make him a 3. I think the Matt Harpring comparison is the best-case scenario for Singler. They were similar players. Rugged, tough rebounders who could score in a variety of ways. Neither was a flawless shooter, but both could shoot well enough to warrant respect on the perimeter. Harpring was pretty fortunate to find a niche, and hopefully Singler can do the same.


Well said. I think you're dead on with the Matt Harpring comparison. You have a good point about why to come back. It's really all about the way he views it. He'll have a good situation at Duke playing with a great backcourt, that is for sure, so we'll see what happens. I have no prolem with him testing the waters to see where he is at.

Kedsy
02-05-2010, 05:46 PM
Everyone is different and responds differently to situations they are in. For instance, Shavlik Randolph and Josh McRoberts could've certainly improved from their sophomore seasons, but honestly, I think both of them thought that if they stayed, it would hurt their status more so they declared when their stock was still somewhat high. They just probably weren't comfortable with the stituation they were in.

Shav did stay for his junior year, and his NBA stock was never anywhere close to "somewhat high." When he left before his senior season nobody expected him to be drafted. And he wasn't.


I think of a smaller version of Troy Murphy.

Well, if true, that's exactly the problem for Kyle's NBA prospects. Murphy is a 4/5, and you can be that sort of player at 6'11" playing those positions. Based on his height and weight, Kyle is a 3 and there aren't so many NBA 3s who can stay in the league very long playing that sort of scrappy/hustle game.

rhcpflea99
02-05-2010, 06:01 PM
Regress in the fact that (prior to last night's phenomenal effort) his numbers have actually gone down slightly almost across the board despite playing an expanded offensive role. He certainly has had no regression in terms of effort. The guy gives it everything every single night.

MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
28.6 13.3 5.8 1.4 2.2 .64 1.1 .7 3.1 .457 .774 .340 1.30 32.2 16.5 7.7 2.4 2.5 .97 1.5 1.0 2.7 .441 .713 .383 1.29
35.0 16.8 7.1 2.6 2.2 1.16 1.3 .7 2.5 .414 .771 .372 1.24

Kyle has improved in 7 categories, moving to the 3 I would expect his reb and blk to go down.

Kedsy
02-05-2010, 06:30 PM
MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
28.6 13.3 5.8 1.4 2.2 .64 1.1 .7 3.1 .457 .774 .340 1.30
32.2 16.5 7.7 2.4 2.5 .97 1.5 1.0 2.7 .441 .713 .383 1.29
35.0 16.8 7.1 2.6 2.2 1.16 1.3 .7 2.5 .414 .771 .372 1.24

Kyle has improved in 7 categories, moving to the 3 I would expect his reb and blk to go down.

Well, first of all, I could be wrong but I'm only counting 6 categories where he's improved (including minutes, which really shouldn't count, personal fouls, and all three of assists, turnovers, and a/to ratio, which I'm counting as three even though it really should just be two). Secondly, his scoring was down before last night's game. Thirdly, even including last night's game his per minute stats are down pretty much across the board (all except he has slightly fewer turnovers and slightly fewer fouls). And finally, the best you can say is his stats are essentially the same as last year, which implies he's reached his ceiling, which is exactly the opposite of what most NBA types are looking for.

CDu
02-05-2010, 08:12 PM
MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
28.6 13.3 5.8 1.4 2.2 .64 1.1 .7 3.1 .457 .774 .340 1.30 32.2 16.5 7.7 2.4 2.5 .97 1.5 1.0 2.7 .441 .713 .383 1.29
35.0 16.8 7.1 2.6 2.2 1.16 1.3 .7 2.5 .414 .771 .372 1.24

Kyle has improved in 7 categories, moving to the 3 I would expect his reb and blk to go down.

You seemed to have missed an important part of my previous post. I said (prior to last night's explosion). The ppg were actually slightly down before that game (along with many of the other stats), which was my point.

And regardless, you're taking per game point totals and ignoring the fact that he's getting those totals in an expanded role and in expanded playing time. I would wouldn't call a 0.3 pt, 0.2 assist increase to be progress considering those two factors. It's actually a regression when you consider per-40 minute numbers.

CDu
02-05-2010, 08:13 PM
Well, first of all, I could be wrong but I'm only counting 6 categories where he's improved (including minutes, which really shouldn't count, personal fouls, and all three of assists, turnovers, and a/to ratio, which I'm counting as three even though it really should just be two). Secondly, his scoring was down before last night's game. Thirdly, even including last night's game his per minute stats are down pretty much across the board (all except he has slightly fewer turnovers and slightly fewer fouls). And finally, the best you can say is his stats are essentially the same as last year, which implies he's reached his ceiling, which is exactly the opposite of what most NBA types are looking for.

Well said. Better said than the way I tried to say it. :)

watzone
03-09-2010, 04:19 PM
In short, Kyle is undecided on whether he will return to Duke. If he blows up in the NCAA Tournament he will surely test the waters. Kyle talks the ACC Tournament as well. Hear it for yourself here - http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/03/kyle-sinlger-talks-of-the-acc-tournament-and-addresses-his-future/

Wildling
03-09-2010, 05:35 PM
Jeez, and I have been thinking all year this was an easy decision to stay for his 4th year.

greybeard
03-09-2010, 06:07 PM
I think that the biggest part of Singler's game that has yet to show is the passing part. I think that he has shown in the last 5 or so games a real nice mid range game in which he is shooting nicely on the move with his jump shot. That is huge.

However, what he has not shown is an ability to really pass the thing inside in the flow of things. In fact, he does not seem to have integrated passing from over his head into his repetoire, which would be a key way of getting it inside. You only think that that part of the game is a snap. :cool:

I disagree with the writer that there are questions about Kyle's game other than the passing issue. I think that he can and will compete well as a 3/4, aka Jeff Green. Green has a little better handle on the bounce, and is a terrific passer. Kyle is the better shooter and I think that they are a wash otherwise, which is to say that Kyle can defend and rebound as a four and presents match up problems for the taller fours. He will also run them to death.

If scouts think that Singler can be a very good ordinary passer of the basketball, and he plays well through the rest of the season, I see him going higher than this guy has rated him. I see him as a last third first rounder, maybe higher--A Dave DeBuschere type, with Bradley's willingness to run people to death off screens and to clear space, that is if you think he is a first rate passer of the ball.

ChicagoCrazy84
03-09-2010, 06:07 PM
Not surprised with his answer. Tough to address that on the eve of the postseason. I still say he comes back though!

dukelifer
03-09-2010, 06:37 PM
Jeez, and I have been thinking all year this was an easy decision to stay for his 4th year.
If Duke makes a deep run- he will test the waters for sure. This is his focus and he is playing very well right now. This is all good for Duke in the short term. If folks want Duke to get far in THIS tourney- then Singler needs to shine big time= 20+ per game with some heroics. A great tourney has made a few players careers- see Stephen Curry.

MartyClark
03-09-2010, 07:14 PM
This is a tough one. We have to wish Kyle well and hope he succeeds at whatever he does, whether it is returning for his senior year or going to the NBA. From a selfish standpoint, I sure would like to see him return.

JohnGalt
03-09-2010, 07:24 PM
This is a tough one. We have to wish Kyle well and hope he succeeds at whatever he does, whether it is returning for his senior year or going to the NBA. From a selfish standpoint, I sure would like to see him return.

I don't think that's being selfish at all. IMO - barring injury - Kyle has very little to lose returning his senior year. He's incredibly intelligent on the court and doesn't rely on his ego to get him in the spotlight. If it's his night to score 25, he'll gladly accept it; just as easily though, he'll defer to another hot hand. With Kyrie coming in next year, Kyle's scoring life could potentially become a lot easier...assuming, of course, Kyrie is as billed.

InSpades
03-09-2010, 08:19 PM
Does anyone know if Kyle is on pace to graduate early (ala Jason Williams)? I would think that the draw of getting his degree might keep him at Duke another year (possibly). Realistically if I'm Kyle I come back...

1. He would have a decent chance to see his number retired.
2. He gets to experience his own "Senior Night".
3. Duke could possibly be a better team next year (and this year's team ain't too shabby).

I would certainly wish him all the best if he decides to go pro. I think this year was kind of a "bonus" year for Duke fans, he could have left after last year and made a lot of money. I just think that there's a lot of nice things he'd be missing out on if he goes and it's only 1 more year. Of course a lot of the above could have been said about Gerald and he left...

Nugget
03-09-2010, 08:35 PM
Under the existing rules, it would be silly for any Junior with NBA ambitions who has not previously "tested the waters" not to declare for the draft and go through at least some of the NBA evaluation process. So, I would fully expect both Kyle and Nolan (notwithstanding his statement last week) to do that -- there is literally no downside to doing so and then coming back to school like Danny Green and Ellington.

However, I suspect that the NBA scouts would still have serious reservations about drafting Kyle high. He is an excellent player and his shooting has improved the last few weeks, but it remains in doubt (at least to me) whether he can consistently get his shot off the dribble against NBA small forwards, or defend that position individually out on the floor.

Matches
03-09-2010, 08:38 PM
IMO - barring injury - Kyle has very little to lose returning his senior year.

Well... other than the million dollars plus he potentially could make in the NBA. :o

After the season Kyle should assess his likely draft status, with the aid of Coach K. If it turns out he's not a first-round pick, the decision to come back seems relatively clear. If he's in that first round, though - tough to turn down that much guaranteed bank.

I know the old refrain is that the money will still be there a year from now, but (a) that's not always true, and (b) even if it is, I'd rather have a milion now than a million a year from now - I'd bet most people would agree.

I would like to see him back, though - would love watching him play as a senior.

roywhite
03-09-2010, 08:42 PM
Two factors that could push Kyle to the NBA after this season would be a great performance in the NCAA Tournament, elevating his stock, and Duke winning the National Championship.

I guess we could live with that. :)

juise
03-09-2010, 08:43 PM
I was at Duke when the last Oregonian, Mike Dunleavy, was on the team. I was a huge fan of his (having played against him in high school and followed him since) and was very excited that he was returning for his senior year as a co-captain (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/101429/). Then he decided not to come back. It was the probably the right decision for him, but it was disappointing for me as a Duke fan.

I would much rather that Kyle keep his options open and not commit to anything until he's sure of the commitment. I think it's right for him to be focused on the tournaments before him. He can process his decision for next year when he has all the needed data. (As an aside draftexpress.com projects him as the 34th pick (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2010/) in the 2010 draft and nbadraft.net has him going 24th (http://www.nbadraft.net/2011mock_draft) in the 2011 draft.)

JohnGalt
03-09-2010, 08:47 PM
but it remains in doubt (at least to me) whether he can consistently get his shot off the dribble against NBA small forwards, or defend that position individually out on the floor.

100% agreement. He still seems to get blocked around the basket pretty regularly by pretty regular players...

I just think that given the projected and potential firepower we'll have at the 1 and 2 next year, his points will come easier both from assists and from other team's inabilities to double down on him, as they will be focused elsewhere.

SCMatt33
03-09-2010, 09:30 PM
I know that the NCAA shortened the time players have to pull out of the draft and still remain eligible. I think I remember reading that this would just about kill players "testing the waters" because every major camp and workout would occur after this date. Does anyone know what the exact date is and if there was any NBA response to it, such as moving up workouts so that players could still attend?

superdave
03-09-2010, 09:33 PM
If Kyle can "test the waters", get feedback from scouts, figure out where he's likely to get drafted, then make up his mind...why would he not enter his name?

Worked for Greivis and Ty.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-09-2010, 09:57 PM
If Kyle can "test the waters", get feedback from scouts, figure out where he's likely to get drafted, then make up his mind...why would he not enter his name?

Worked for Greivis and Ty.

Yea but not so much Gerald.

superdave
03-09-2010, 10:29 PM
Yea but not so much Gerald.

Didnt Gerald get drafted in the lottery? Isnt that the goal?

Devil07
03-09-2010, 11:02 PM
The testing the waters route is a smart one for juniors to take. That being said, Duke players get very good advice on where they stand without having to go through that process. I can't recall any Duke player recently that has entered, not signed an agent and then withdrawn. I may be missing someone, but based off of precedent I'd say that if Kyle does declare he'll be doing so with every intention of staying in the draft. That being said, he has repeatedly stated that he'll only go pro if he feels that he can contribute (rather than just being drafted on potential alone) so I feel confident that Kyle will only enter if he's confident in his draft position. He doesn't strike me as the kind to just do it on a whim. As a fan, I think that's about all you can ask for.

Matches
03-10-2010, 08:17 AM
Didnt Gerald get drafted in the lottery? Isnt that the goal?

Yes and yes. And no matter how well he'd played in his senior season, G probably would have dropped in the draft this year given what is likely to be a much stronger pool.

I was sorry to see him go, but IMO he made the right choice.

greybeard
03-10-2010, 10:28 AM
After initially struggling with being deployed at the 3 point line and initiating from their, Singler found his rhythm and showed diversity in his game ever since Duke started deploying him inside out. I think he has showed ever improving ability to catch inside the three point line and get the jump shot off with reliability off a bounce or two in either direction. His extension on those shots is terrific (as mentioned previously, he has this curious ability to lift his entire shoulder girdle up way beyond what is "normal" which is one reason he is such a terrific rebounder in a crowd). And, once he has gotten to run people around and then sprint off a screen from down low to the 3, he is shooting threes much, much better even when he is coming upcourt or positioned at the 3 line.

If I were a pro coach, I would like to see how well Singler is at the penetrating passing game and how well he can play off that part of his game to create scoring opportuntities for himself.

I should think that Singler, if he is not now, will take to that type of play quite well, quite easily, and that he will prove very, very talented at it. But, no one really knows.

He seems to be a tad awkward when trying to get into a classical low dribbling position--he seems to me to be off balance, like he is struggling at once to keep his head up and to not fall on his face. I think that he needs to find what works for him and jettison this classical attack posture. To this extent, I very much agree with CDu's assessment of his play off the dribble. However, I think he attacks the basket extremely well from 17 feet on in, and save for an ability to modulate speeds when he gets to the middle of the lane, is a creative finisher. The ability to slow down in the lane for a possible pull up and floater are real important and I should think easily within Kyle's reach.

In short, if he plays out like he has been playing since they started deploying him inside out, he gets chosen much higher than this guy rates him.

On the other hand, should he come back, and the coaches commit to really using an interior scoring game, then Singler will get to develop and show his ability to be an asset to interior players off the pass and to play off that role. If that is not in his arsenal, I agree with those who rate him lower than I would otherwise. :confused:

rtnorthrup
03-10-2010, 11:15 AM
As many have already correctly pointed out, there is no downside for Kyle or Nolan to declare early in an effort to find out where they stand in terms of draft prospects.

The other interesting angle here is the potential for a new collective bargaining agreement or an NBA lockout at the end of next season. Not only must Kyle and Nolan determine what their draft prospects are, they must also determine whether there will be an NBA season in 2011.

I gotta think that any college kid considering the NBA is thinking about the possibility of a new bargaining agreement which may include severe salary cap restrictions or the possibility of a lockout. I'm interested to see what effect this has on foreign players who might be able to make more money playing overseas.

Anyway, I think there are scenarios where Kyle could end up leaving even if he is not a guaranteed lottery pick.

flyingdutchdevil
03-10-2010, 12:01 PM
Anyway, I think there are scenarios where Kyle could end up leaving even if he is not a guaranteed lottery pick.

This is unfortunately true. Just because Kyle isn't a lottery doesn't mean he won't declare. A mid-first round and even low-first round could be enough to persuaded him to declare. This year's draft is ridiculously weak, IMO. There are few guaranteed really good players (Wall, Cousins, Johnson, Turner come to mind) but other than that, the pool is really weak.

That said, unlike Gerald, I would be surprised if Kyle stayed in the draft. With next year's team being potentially ridiculous, it is as good a time as any to win a NC

JaMarcus Russell
03-10-2010, 12:50 PM
The other interesting angle here is the potential for a new collective bargaining agreement or an NBA lockout at the end of next season. Not only must Kyle and Nolan determine what their draft prospects are, they must also determine whether there will be an NBA season in 2011.

I gotta think that any college kid considering the NBA is thinking about the possibility of a new bargaining agreement which may include severe salary cap restrictions or the possibility of a lockout.

While this is true, I can't imagine that being a second round pick or going undrafted is appealing enough to leave a possible pre-season number 1 team.

And if you look at the ESPN top 100, you won't even see Nolan. Same with Kyle in the top 50.

SCMatt33
03-10-2010, 02:10 PM
I found the new rule that I was talking about, and it drastically changes the process of "testing the waters." The new rule (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2009-04-21-college-underclassmen-nba-draft_N.htm) will force players who declare early to pull out of the draft by May 8 if they wish to remain NCAA eligible. The early entry deadline is in late April and individual workouts are not allowed by the NBA until the list of entrants is released, which is a few days after the deadline.

This leaves players about a week and a half to work out for teams. Realistically, a player could only go to one or two individual workouts during this time. The bigger problem is that this short period comes during finals week for many schools (including Duke) meaning that if Kyle wanted to attend a workout, he would have to schedule it around his final exams/papers. This leaves almost no room to gather any meaningful info from "testing the waters" as has been the case in the past.

SilkyJ
03-10-2010, 03:45 PM
Yea but not so much Gerald.

Well it worked out for Gerald as he was drafted high and to a young and upcoming team. Maybe it didn't work out for you, but its not about you.

I'm happy for him, and you should be as well.


I found the new rule that I was talking about, and it drastically changes the process of "testing the waters." The new rule (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2009-04-21-college-underclassmen-nba-draft_N.htm) will force players who declare early to pull out of the draft by May 8 if they wish to remain NCAA eligible. The early entry deadline is in late April and individual workouts are not allowed by the NBA until the list of entrants is released, which is a few days after the deadline.

This leaves players about a week and a half to work out for teams. Realistically, a player could only go to one or two individual workouts during this time. The bigger problem is that this short period comes during finals week for many schools (including Duke) meaning that if Kyle wanted to attend a workout, he would have to schedule it around his final exams/papers. This leaves almost no room to gather any meaningful info from "testing the waters" as has been the case in the past.

Thanks for clearing that up. That really is a minimal amount of time, and I fear with Kyle that it may force him to go ahead and jump whereas under the old rules I think he might have come back b/c he would see that he's very much on the first round bubble.

On a selfish note, it would be great if he came back as coach K would likely schedule a West Coast game for Kyle as he does with all his seniors and I might actually get to see Duke play somewhere close to home...

NSDukeFan
03-10-2010, 04:06 PM
Well it worked out for Gerald as he was drafted high and to a young and upcoming team. Maybe it didn't work out for you, but its not about you.

I'm happy for him, and you should be as well.

Agreed.


Thanks for clearing that up. That really is a minimal amount of time, and I fear with Kyle that it may force him to go ahead and jump whereas under the old rules I think he might have come back b/c he would see that he's very much on the first round bubble.

On a selfish note, it would be great if he came back as coach K would likely schedule a West Coast game for Kyle as he does with all his seniors and I might actually get to see Duke play somewhere close to home...

My impression is that K will give Kyle a pretty good indication of where he is very likely to go and if he does jump, it will be with plenty of information. Selfishly, I would love for him to be back as he has been a ridiculously fun player to watch the past 2&3/4 years and I think he would be a great senior leader on a top 5 team.

SilkyJ
03-10-2010, 07:14 PM
My impression is that K will give Kyle a pretty good indication of where he is very likely to go and if he does jump, it will be with plenty of information.

I guess my point is that any information out there, whether provided by K or anyone else, will be incomplete due to the lack of workouts and post-season evaluations.

Now, I am not a draft expert and it may be that the workouts don't end up moving the needle a whole lot and NBA scouts tend to focus more on what they have seen on film and in-person throughout the 30+ game season. But I thought that the workout period was at least a meaningful portion of the evaluation.

CDu
03-10-2010, 07:20 PM
I guess my point is that any information out there, whether provided by K or anyone else, will be incomplete due to the lack of workouts and post-season evaluations.

Now, I am not a draft expert and it may be that the workouts don't end up moving the needle a whole lot and NBA scouts tend to focus more on what they have seen on film and in-person throughout the 30+ game season. But I thought that the workout period was at least a meaningful portion of the evaluation.

I would say that the workouts are especially useful for guys who are borderline 1st/2nd round picks. After the first 10-15 picks in any draft, it gets highly variable. As such, a guy can go from in the 40-50 range up to the 20-30 (i.e., guaranteed money) range via workouts, and vice versa.

SCMatt33
03-10-2010, 07:41 PM
I would say that the workouts are especially useful for guys who are borderline 1st/2nd round picks. After the first 10-15 picks in any draft, it gets highly variable. As such, a guy can go from in the 40-50 range up to the 20-30 (i.e., guaranteed money) range via workouts, and vice versa.

I agree totally, and that's why it will be so tough to "test the waters" now. It used to be that if you did well and thought you were moving up, you would stay in. If you failed to impress and thought you might fall out of the first round, you would simply go back to school. Now you have to decide ahead of time whether you can make it.

This does leave an interesting option for players who declare and might otherwise have returned to school. This is an NCAA rule, and not an NBA rule. The NBA would still allow players to remove their name from consideration as the draft nears. This would allow players who feel like they might go in the second round to go to Europe for a year, a la Brandon Jennings, and try to move into the first round the following year to get a guaranteed contract.

RelativeWays
03-10-2010, 08:01 PM
I think when you are drafted as a junior or senior out of college, it seems to be for two reasons. a) The team believes you can contribute pretty much right away. They have plans for you. b) You're the best available whether the team has a need for you or not. I don't see many "potential" based picks from juniors or seniors so if you're option a, you're probably (though not always) picked in the first half of the 1st round, at least up to pick 20. If you're b) you are a late first to 2nd round pick that is likely to be traded, released (2nd round) or out of the league once your 3rd year is up, maybe to the DL. I think the the constant influx of young players makes job security for those journeymen players even more suspect. Kyle does not need to worry about being a lottery pick, he needs to worry about being an option a. If he does work out and there's a team that has a definite need for him, he should go. If he's a best available, he might want to consider staying to become a "need" player. I think if Kyle is drafted as a best available player, I think his tenure in the NBA could be short, unless he gets traded to a team that needs him.

-bdbd
03-10-2010, 08:24 PM
Does anyone know if Kyle is on pace to graduate early (ala Jason Williams)? I would think that the draw of getting his degree might keep him at Duke another year (possibly). Realistically if I'm Kyle I come back...

1. He would have a decent chance to see his number retired.
2. He gets to experience his own "Senior Night".
3. Duke could possibly be a better team next year (and this year's team ain't too shabby).

I would certainly wish him all the best if he decides to go pro. I think this year was kind of a "bonus" year for Duke fans, he could have left after last year and made a lot of money. I just think that there's a lot of nice things he'd be missing out on if he goes and it's only 1 more year. Of course a lot of the above could have been said about Gerald and he left...

Since we haven't heard about him doing that, I'd tend to believe it not to be the case. (With Jay Wil it was known that he was on pace to graduate in 3 years. I recall hearing that the Summer before his Junior year.)

Correct if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall at least some players considering eartly departure benefitting from K/the BB Program setting up a search committee to research and report back to the kids their findings re his likely draft level to expect (after speaking with numerous GM's, etc). We obviously have a number of NBA contacts to utilize, starting with Danny Ferry, Mike Dunleavey (yes, he still would have the needed knowledge), Billy King (same), the Phoenix GM (K connection), and lots of players..... I would not be at all surprised if such a committee is already underway.

JaMarcus Russell
03-10-2010, 09:11 PM
I know that the NFL has some sort of committee that gives advice to prospects before the deadline to declare. Jake Locker decided to return to school after hearing from the committee that he wasn't a guaranteed first round draft pick in January. I am not sure what exactly the NBA has, but I bet they have something very similar.

Unfortunately for us fans, that kind of stuff isn't really available to the public, so our best sources are probably Chad Ford's Top 100 Board on ESPN, along with NBA Draft.net

Newton_14
03-10-2010, 09:45 PM
Kyle has stated on more than one occasion that he will not go to the NBA until his game is ready. He stated he did not want to go based on potential and he would not leave college early to sit on an NBA bench, he wants to be able to play and contribute.

I take him for his word on that and I believe it will play a big role in his decision. He may consider the potential lockout but I doubt that is one of the things he looks at as a key factor. I believe his final decision will be based on how high he is projected to go and if he and K feel he would be able to contribute on whichever team is interested in taking him.

I was wrong about Gerald as I thought he would return, and that makes me gun shy with Kyle. Earlier in the year when he was struggling a bit with the new role, I was convinced he was coming back even after learning that the plan with him and K was to get him ready to leave after this year. After seeing his interview from this week I am a little less confident.

But if at the end of the season the projected draft slot for him remains as low as it is right now, I would be inclined to think he returns. I sure hope he does anyway. Should he come back he will finish his college career with really impressive numbers, go down as one of the best all time Blue Devils and likely achieve the credentials needed to hang that Number 12 in the rafters. And from a team standpoint with him and Nolan leading the young bucks the team would also have a great chance to be one of K's "special" teams.

From a selfish fan point of view I sure want to see Kyle Singler the college senior play just to see just how good both he and his team would be. I think both would be worth the price of admission!

Daniel tosh
03-15-2010, 05:35 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/362683-was-the-acc-tourney-kyle-singlers-conference-swan-song

Article on Singler and his senior year,don't know how much you can trust it,but its informative.

Classof06
03-15-2010, 05:52 PM
"Singler’s future will be up in the air until after the tournament. If he blows up and carries Duke past the first three rounds, the likelihood of his return will dwindle. If he or Duke struggles, his senior year will be much more of a sure thing."


My thoughts exactly.

licc85
03-15-2010, 07:58 PM
I think the only reason he hasn't said anything yet is because he wants to see who is declaring, and what this year's draft class will look like for sure. If he went one way or another right now, he would be backed into a corner by the media. Ultimately, even if he plays very well in the NCAAs, the draft class this year is so strong, that I doubt he would be a lottery pick.

On the other hand, there are several reason why he can really improve his draft stock by coming back:
1. He will have had a solid year of experience playing on the perimeter, so he will put up more impressive numbers
2. He will have a conventional point guard who can really penetrate and dish
3. He will have a great chance to win it all
4. The draft class next year may be down, considering several of the best incoming freshman prospects do not seem to be 1-and-done, as well as a dearth of wall/cousins/favors/turner type players.

I predict he will come back because his draft stock will be higher next year.

greybeard
03-15-2010, 08:33 PM
If draft stock depends on how he plays in the tournament a lot will depend on Jon. He is clearly hurting, much more so this past week since the injury first happened, which I think we can now see must have been in the 2d GT game.

If folks don't have to worry about Jon hurting them, it will be very difficult for Smith and Singler to really get off.

I just hope Jon has the chance to make the run he has earned. If so, I expect Singler to excel.

pfrduke
03-15-2010, 08:50 PM
On a selfish note, it would be great if he came back as coach K would likely schedule a West Coast game for Kyle as he does with all his seniors and I might actually get to see Duke play somewhere close to home...

I could totally see Duke playing Oregon either a) in the Rose Garden or b) in the brand new arena Nike is building in Eugene. And I would absolutely make the drive down from Seattle for the game. Haven't had the chance to see the boys live since 2006, and I'm starting to get withdrawals.

saltydog
03-20-2010, 10:50 AM
Does anyone have any "inside scoop" on whether Kyle will be back next year or opt for the NBA? If this is a re-post, I apologize...new here.

Thanks!

OZZIE4DUKE
03-20-2010, 11:01 AM
Does anyone have any "inside scoop" on whether Kyle will be back next year or opt for the NBA? If this is a re-post, I apologize...new here.

Thanks!
Nope. No one knows what he'll do next year, not even Kyle.

airowe
03-20-2010, 11:08 AM
What Ozzie said. I do know that there is an NBA player who recently left Duke early that has been in Kyle's ear about how much he regrets his decision.

chrisheery
03-20-2010, 11:15 AM
Airowe do you know G? Where did you hear that?

-jk
03-20-2010, 11:23 AM
Does anyone have any "inside scoop" on whether Kyle will be back next year or opt for the NBA? If this is a re-post, I apologize...new here.

Thanks!

"Search" is your friend!

-jk

sagegrouse
03-20-2010, 11:29 AM
Does anyone have any "inside scoop" on whether Kyle will be back next year or opt for the NBA? If this is a re-post, I apologize...new here.

Thanks!

What Ozzie said.

Kyle started the year with a goal to go to the NBA after this year, if everything worked out like he wanted. See K's early-season comments re Kyle. Also, confirmed through other sources.

The question: Will he like what he hears from the NBA scouts and teams? If he does, he may be gone... unless he changes his mind.

I don't believe any of this will be worked out until the season is over.

sagegrouse

airowe
03-20-2010, 11:34 AM
Airowe do you know G? Where did you hear that?

No, I don't know G. Someone on the staff told a good friend of mine. FWIW, that member of the staff didn't know Kyle's plans either so if anyone tells you they do, they're lying.

Cockabeau
03-20-2010, 01:28 PM
gerald made a terrible decision,imo.

His family had money and even if he busted to the point of not getting drafted(Unlikely) he would have made alot of money overseas....

He had all his life to make money but playing with your buddies on a dominant college team in a senior year that would have provided lasting memories.

I love Gerald but he got terrible advice and he made a terrible decision,imo.

Cockabeau
03-20-2010, 01:31 PM
And Kyle comes back, I have no doubt about either.

because he has a chance to have his jersey retired.....

JG Nothing
03-20-2010, 01:39 PM
gerald made a terrible decision,imo.

His family had money and even if he busted to the point of not getting drafted(Unlikely) he would have made alot of money overseas....

He had all his life to make money but playing with your buddies on a dominant college team in a senior year that would have provided lasting memories.

I love Gerald but he got terrible advice and he made a terrible decision,imo.

Leaving early is not simply about money. All players do not necessarily like the college experience (at least in contrast with the rock star lifestyle of the NBA). In the NBA, you get to live basketball and get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars even if you ride the bench. In college, you play basketball in-between a full load of classes and study halls (or vice versa). If an education is important, then it's a pretty good deal. For better or worse, the NBA is more important to many college players including some at Duke.

uh_no
03-20-2010, 01:40 PM
I love Gerald but he got terrible advice and he made a terrible decision,imo.

he's sitting somewhere counting his $ while doing very little actual work....sounds like a dream to most people

COYS
03-20-2010, 02:21 PM
gerald made a terrible decision,imo.

His family had money and even if he busted to the point of not getting drafted(Unlikely) he would have made alot of money overseas....

He had all his life to make money but playing with your buddies on a dominant college team in a senior year that would have provided lasting memories.

I love Gerald but he got terrible advice and he made a terrible decision,imo.

This doesn't make any sense. The coaching staff's goal with Gerald was to prepare him for the NBA and turn him into a lottery pick. They accomplished just that. He went 11th in the draft. No, he hasn't played much so far, but he plays for a coach who is notorious for not playing rookies. In fact, his PT has gone up a bit, recently. It probably is a really tough decision because you do miss your friends from college and the college experience is really fun to some players, but sometimes the best opportunities require you to make a few sacrifices. I don't see how any part of his decision was "terrible." Also, I wouldn't consider getting injured and playing in Europe a suitable replacement for having a long and successful NBA career. Some people might, but I certainly wouldn't.

Cockabeau
03-20-2010, 03:19 PM
Getting money overseas in one year is usually more money than a person can make in lifetime...Making money will never be an issue for someone like Gerald.

You would trade an once in a lifetime experience with an NBA paycheck. I wouldn't.JMO.

COYS
03-20-2010, 04:38 PM
Getting money overseas in one year is usually more money than a person can make in lifetime...Making money will never be an issue for someone like Gerald.

You would trade an once in a lifetime experience with an NBA paycheck. I wouldn't.JMO.

It's not just about the money you make. It's the NBA versus the european leagues in terms of prestige, future payouts through endorsements, etc. It is true that the Euro leagues can throw money at players. In some cases (Josh Childress comes to mind), that money is better than what they could make in the NBA, at least on a short term basis. Also, Euro contracts often include things like housing, etc. that NBA contracts do not include. However, the NBA still has a higher paying system for veterans, has more prestige, which increases the marketability of the player, and provides better inroads for future a non-playing career in basketball (i.e. coach, broadcaster, GM, etc.). In that regard, there is no comparison. Short term money in Europe could potentially be better than short term money in the NBA, but if G wants to have a long career in basketball, then the NBA is where it is at and if the opportunity presents itself, it is far from a "terrible" idea to jump on it.

I'm actually a big fan of the Euro leagues and think the game there is better than most in the United States believe. I also hope that Europe continues to develop good basketball talent and that the Euroleagues become more competitive for NBA caliber talent. That being said, they still have a long way to go and I certainly don't think that suffering a serious injury that diminishes a players skills enough to force him to Europe instead of being a guaranteed lottery pick in the NBA is as harmless to G's future in basketball as you suggest.

I respect your opinion, and I certainly understand those who value the college experience. I loved college and didn't want to study abroad because I didn't want to miss out on a semester at school. However, I think that if you were in G's shoes, you would be hard pressed to call opting for early entry into the draft as a guaranteed lottery pick a "terrible" choice.

ice-9
03-20-2010, 11:25 PM
Getting money overseas in one year is usually more money than a person can make in lifetime...

Yikes...aim higher my man!

miramar
03-20-2010, 11:46 PM
he's sitting somewhere counting his $ while doing very little actual work....sounds like a dream to most people

He has plenty of time left over to play HORSE with Michael Jordan.

-bdbd
03-21-2010, 01:00 AM
This doesn't make any sense. The coaching staff's goal with Gerald was to prepare him for the NBA and turn him into a lottery pick. They accomplished just that. He went 11th in the draft. No, he hasn't played much so far, but he plays for a coach who is notorious for not playing rookies. In fact, his PT has gone up a bit, recently. It probably is a really tough decision because you do miss your friends from college and the college experience is really fun to some players, but sometimes the best opportunities require you to make a few sacrifices. I don't see how any part of his decision was "terrible." Also, I wouldn't consider getting injured and playing in Europe a suitable replacement for having a long and successful NBA career. Some people might, but I certainly wouldn't.

And I always thought their goal was to win COLLEGE BB games. Silly me! ;-)

Money does not equal happiness - trite, but true. 'was reminded of Wil Avery who also went pro too early (1999 I think), and also was a lottery pick....... and is universally regarded as having made a BAD decision. He lasted the minimum three years in the league, I believe, mostly sitting on the bench, and then was discarded. See, he never mastered a move to both sides. Once the pros saw that, well, they had him DTR. If he'd stayed for another year or two K certainly could have worked on that for him - before hitting all of that pressure in the Association (which also could well have been BETTER for his long-term money situation).

Being a lottery pick for Gerald isn't a be-all-and-end-all. He seems pretty unhappy in Charlotte these days. Not everyone is ALL about the money guys. And his family IS pretty comfortable anyway (different story for a player whose family is very poor and/or disadvantaged, say like an Elton Brand).



Go Duke!

"Sure hope Kyle sticks around for a jersey retirement ceremony!"

Cockabeau
03-21-2010, 08:39 AM
I am fine with it because I love how Nolan is thriving.

The more kids who succeed and improve at Duke the better.
Even though it was a bad decision I think it turned out great for Duke in regards to Nolans devlopment. Now watch me eat me words and Nolan goes pro...lol

Seriously Nolan will be a stud next year.

KI
Nolan
Curry
KS
A random Plumlee

The future is sooooo bright :D:cool:

The1Bluedevil
03-22-2010, 07:01 PM
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/winderman-draftees-wait-until-2011-no-checks-until-2012.php

JaMarcus Russell
03-22-2010, 07:12 PM
However, that article should note that the situation they presented only really applies to 2010 first round draft picks. I think that the 2010 equivalents of Al-Farouq Aminu, Willie Warren, and Greg Monroe will all go pro. However, the impact on a second round pick isn't nearly as pronounced.

And I checked Chad Ford's big board. Singler actually fell from 55 to 57 this week.

licc85
03-22-2010, 07:20 PM
well, on the bright side of things, I think this only helps duke in the long run whether singler stays or not because it basically encourages Kyrie to stay at least 2 years. 2011 and 2012 could be reminiscent of older duke squads with loads of nba talent and athleticism, which would be a welcome change for all duke fans.

mgtr
03-22-2010, 07:21 PM
I think it all boils down to one question -- are you playing basketball because you love it, or are you doing it for money?

roywhite
03-22-2010, 07:23 PM
well, on the bright side of things, I think this only helps duke in the long run whether singler stays or not because it basically encourages Kyrie to stay at least 2 years. 2011 and 2012 could be reminiscent of older duke squads with loads of nba talent and athleticism, which would be a welcome change for all duke fans.

Yeah, what a burden it's been rooting for these no-talent teams that barely squeeze out 30 wins.:rolleyes:

No offense to those who are interested in draft speculation, but I hope we can concentrate on Duke's march to the Final Four rather than possible early defections in the next year, or two.

Zeb
03-22-2010, 07:23 PM
Hate to say it, but if Duke wins the championship this year, here's my prediction of what happens in order of most probable to least probable:

1) Kyle AND Nolan leave early
2) Kyle leaves early
3) Kyle and Nolan both stay

I think if we lose before the final four, the order reverses.

Right or wrong, I think tournament success can really affect a kid's draft position. And given the NBA labor issues, if Nolan continues to play like he did against Cal for 3 or 4 more games, I think he jumps.

Zeb
03-22-2010, 07:25 PM
I think it all boils down to one question -- are you playing basketball because you love it, or are you doing it for money?

Umm... does that mean no one in the NBA loves playing basketball? I beg to differ.

JaMarcus Russell
03-22-2010, 07:25 PM
Nolan is barely on the boards for next year's second round.

I can't see him leaving unless he suddenly starts playing like Michael Jordan and leads Duke to a national championship.

Wander
03-22-2010, 07:32 PM
Hate to say it, but if Duke wins the championship this year, here's my prediction of what happens in order of most probable to least probable:


Not to single you out in particular, but is Singler and/or Nolan having a senior night really more important than winning a national championship? I'd gladly be okay with ANYONE on the team trying to jump early to the NBA if it meant we won it all...

SoCalDukeFan
03-22-2010, 07:52 PM
I agree with Roy White. Lets put all of our energy into rooting for this year's team as they to the Sweet Sixteen and hopefully beyond.

But if you want to worry, the LA Times' mock draft has Mason P as a first rounder.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-heisler-20100321,0,1912988.story

Starter
03-22-2010, 08:13 PM
If Duke winning the National Title is a worst-case scenario, I think the best case involves Elisa Cuthbert in my living room.

Here's my best guesses, and I'm usually pretty good with this stuff:
Nolan -- not going anywhere
Mason -- two more years
Kyle -- Complete toss-up. He'll test the water, as he should, whether he has intentions of going pro or not. I'd lean toward him being back.
Kyrie -- St. Pat's people told me K said he views him as a two-year guy. Sounds about right. If he loves it, we may get 3.
Rivers -- One year. (Haha... let's hope)

JohnGalt
03-22-2010, 08:19 PM
I think it all boils down to one question -- are you playing basketball because you love it, or are you doing it for money?

What's wrong with playing basketball as a career and, thus, making money?

This statement is just plain crazy.

DevilHorns
03-22-2010, 08:20 PM
Nolan is barely on the boards for next year's second round.

How come Nolan gets no love? I think he's a great NBA prospect. Am I missing something here? He can penetrate, find the open man, shoot, play lock-down D, run the court well... ? ???

theAlaskanBear
03-22-2010, 08:32 PM
I think it all boils down to one question -- are you playing basketball because you love it, or are you doing it for money?

I would argue that in order to make it into the NBA, you HAVE TO LOVE BASKETBALL. Otherwise, you would never put in the time or work to get there.

I suppose there would be exceptions for 7-footers who would be guided to basketball for their size.

JaMarcus Russell
03-22-2010, 08:39 PM
How come Nolan gets no love? I think he's a great NBA prospect. Am I missing something here? He can penetrate, find the open man, shoot, play lock-down D, run the court well... ? ???

I think he is rated a little too low myself. I have no idea how Chad Ford rates him as the 145th best pro prospect right now, but I certainly don't think he is close to the first round this year.

It's basically because he is a 6'2" shooting guard, who doesn't have an amazing long distance shot. He has a lot of trouble running the point, and whenever he takes his man one on one, he doesn't look to pass very often. I think that's the part of his game he needs to work on the most this summer.

He does lots of things pretty well, but I don't think scouts would consider him to be "elite" in any of his skills.

roywhite
03-22-2010, 08:40 PM
How come Nolan gets no love? I think he's a great NBA prospect. Am I missing something here? He can penetrate, find the open man, shoot, play lock-down D, run the court well... ? ???

Undersized for the NBA. How many shooting guards do you see in the 6'2" range?

He's certainly an excellent player who can develop further and improve his prospects as a pro, but I'm not seeing projections of high current interest from NBA teams.

gumbomoop
03-22-2010, 08:48 PM
How come Nolan gets no love? I think he's a great NBA prospect. Am I missing something here? He can penetrate, find the open man, shoot, play lock-down D, run the court well... ? ???

It's generally understood that the big ?-mark re NS is whether he can play PG in pros. He hasn't really done well at that so far at Duke. Plenty of talent, as attacking slasher, pull-up jumper/teardrop, even 3-bomber, but not as a PG; and that won't be his position next season at Duke. Hard to make it in NBA as 6'2" SG.

DevilHorns
03-22-2010, 09:04 PM
It's generally understood that the big ?-mark re NS is whether he can play PG in pros. He hasn't really done well at that so far at Duke. Plenty of talent, as attacking slasher, pull-up jumper/teardrop, even 3-bomber, but not as a PG; and that won't be his position next season at Duke. Hard to make it in NBA as 6'2" SG.

I honestly think he has less ?marks than Kyle. Kyle doesn't elevate well, isn't incredibly fast, and gets blocked a lot on drives. Nolan IMO can find a solid niche in the NBA if he improves his passing.

Cameron
03-22-2010, 10:25 PM
I would argue that in order to make it into the NBA, you HAVE TO LOVE BASKETBALL. Otherwise, you would never put in the time or work to get there.


Not necessarily true. Karl Malone once said that he played the game hard because it was job and he respected it, but, outside of those "two hours and six minutes" of game time, wanted nothing to do with basketball.

He loved the game about as much as you and I love bobsledding.

JohnGalt
03-22-2010, 10:28 PM
I honestly think he has less ?marks than Kyle. Kyle doesn't elevate well, isn't incredibly fast, and gets blocked a lot on drives. Nolan IMO can find a solid niche in the NBA if he improves his passing.

Not to take anything away from Nolan, but I completely disagree. However cliche, Kyle fills the 'unrecordables' within a stat sheet better than anyone since Battier. He does so much for the team that isn't able to be tallied, it's really and truly pretty awesome to watch. To continue the cliche, he's the consummate glue guy.

mike88
03-22-2010, 10:44 PM
I honestly think he has less ?marks than Kyle. Kyle doesn't elevate well, isn't incredibly fast, and gets blocked a lot on drives. Nolan IMO can find a solid niche in the NBA if he improves his passing.

He isn't the second coming of Dominique Wilkins, but I think several of the opponents who have had Kyle run down and block their lay-ups or dunks would disagree with you about his speed and elevation. He is very much like Battier - in fact, you could argue that Kyle's game is further developed than Shane's was as a junior. I think he can have a great NBA career for the right team. But I do think he would benefit from the chance to improve his ball-handling and passing as a senior.

COYS
03-22-2010, 10:47 PM
And I always thought their goal was to win COLLEGE BB games. Silly me! ;-)

Money does not equal happiness - trite, but true. 'was reminded of Wil Avery who also went pro too early (1999 I think), and also was a lottery pick....... and is universally regarded as having made a BAD decision. He lasted the minimum three years in the league, I believe, mostly sitting on the bench, and then was discarded. See, he never mastered a move to both sides. Once the pros saw that, well, they had him DTR. If he'd stayed for another year or two K certainly could have worked on that for him - before hitting all of that pressure in the Association (which also could well have been BETTER for his long-term money situation).

Being a lottery pick for Gerald isn't a be-all-and-end-all. He seems pretty unhappy in Charlotte these days. Not everyone is ALL about the money guys. And his family IS pretty comfortable anyway (different story for a player whose family is very poor and/or disadvantaged, say like an Elton Brand).



Go Duke!

"Sure hope Kyle sticks around for a jersey retirement ceremony!"

Well, I didn't say it was the coaching staff's ONLY goal. I think preparing one of your most talented players to be an NBA lottery pick can certainly help a team win games at the same time ;) . . . and it is definitely an important part of being an elite college coach. Coach K pretty much said the staff was working to prepare Kyle for the NBA after this season.

I agree that leaving too early can have bad consequences and it is definitely not always about the money. However, just because he may or may not be unhappy right now in his current situation does NOT make his decision to go pro a "terrible" decision, as the poster I was responding to claimed. Avery could have learned to go left in the pros had he worked at it. Development does not stop once you get to the pros. He may have lacked the work ethic or he may simply not have been as good as we thought from his college performance. Either way, another year in college doesn't necessarily help that situation.

Anyway, I'm sure that Kyle will make an informed decision. Personally, I hope that he tears up the rest of the tourney with some big games against teams with big name players and shoots up the draft boards. That can only be a great thing for Duke's immediate future!

roywhite
03-22-2010, 10:50 PM
Kyle is an underrated defender. As noted, he comes up with an occasional block; he also maintains good position, gets his hands on balls for tips and deflections, and can defend effectively against a range of sizes. My guess is that he will be in the NBA for a good number of years.

DukeDevilDeb
03-22-2010, 10:56 PM
How come Nolan gets no love? I think he's a great NBA prospect. Am I missing something here? He can penetrate, find the open man, shoot, play lock-down D, run the court well... ? ???

He's coming back next year... no ifs ands or buts

DevilHorns
03-22-2010, 11:07 PM
He's coming back next year... no ifs ands or buts

I realize that. Just wish he was getting more mock draft love.

Also, I just took a quick look at Chad Ford's Top 100 draft prospects right now (granted, I don't think he updates this really...) and Duke's highest prospect in that list is....


wait for it....


Mason Plumlee.

dukeballboy88
03-22-2010, 11:09 PM
i hope kyle comes back. i remember talking to my brother the day barnes signed and i remember calling him to tell him Barnes is about to sign. he said we dont need him. I was like true, i would rather have Kyle for 4 then Harrison for 1. Freshmen dont win championships but Juniors and Seniors do. Come on back Kyle and domiante college for another year!

juise
03-22-2010, 11:19 PM
Freshmen dont win championships but Juniors and Seniors do.

That theory will certainly be put to the test this year (UK), but I think experience is a big plus as a general rule.


I really hope that Kyle returns as well. I would love to see him leave Duke with a diploma, but I also fully admit that other options may be better for him. We'll see.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-22-2010, 11:32 PM
Freshmen dont win championships but Juniors and Seniors do.

Great players when championships

MarkD83
03-23-2010, 01:32 AM
Great players when championships

Great TEAMS win championships!!!

DevilHorns
03-23-2010, 03:13 AM
Great TEAMS win championships!!!

In general yes, but the Cuse don't go from losing in the first round of the NIT to winning the national championship the next year without the diaper dandy Carmelo.

DeBlueDevil
03-23-2010, 08:42 AM
IMO Kyle has to come back next year...if you just look at last game against Cal you will see the ballhandling he has to work on. I think he's NBA ready and mostly ALL areas but just his ballhandling and creating his own shot he needs to work on (similar to what JJ lacked as a SG going into the draft)....Kyle struggled with a defender up in him making him put the ball on the floor coming off screens on sunday. and lets face it...in the NBA no one is going to be running an offense for Kyle coming of screens. I think this is why he still remains low on the draft board. To me he is a great college bball player but on the NBA level his skills just simply do not translate. I love Kyle but that's just my opinion and strict reality. He'll have a similar role to what JJ has had in Orlando....coming off the bench and just having to work tremendously hard to even see the court

greybeard
03-23-2010, 11:47 AM
IMO Kyle has to come back next year...if you just look at last game against Cal you will see the ballhandling he has to work on. I think he's NBA ready and mostly ALL areas but just his ballhandling and creating his own shot he needs to work on (similar to what JJ lacked as a SG going into the draft)....Kyle struggled with a defender up in him making him put the ball on the floor coming off screens on sunday. and lets face it...in the NBA no one is going to be running an offense for Kyle coming of screens. I think this is why he still remains low on the draft board. To me he is a great college bball player but on the NBA level his skills just simply do not translate. I love Kyle but that's just my opinion and strict reality. He'll have a similar role to what JJ has had in Orlando....coming off the bench and just having to work tremendously hard to even see the court

If you're LA, who would you rather have, Walton or Singler? Tough question. For the money, and the boards, Singler, I should think.

There are any number of NBA players who do not create their own shots, which incidently Singler can do, only not from the 3 point line, who are the players who get the ball kicked to.

If Kyle beats this shut down guy from Purdue and Duke goes on, Kyle gets taken in the first round, in my opinion.

He is a terrific rebounder for his size, a terrific, terrific receiver of the ball, a solid shooter, and scores the ball in traffic among the trees. He is a terrific competitor.

I agree that his ability to change speeds off the bounce and get in the lane for short jump shots can use improvement. The biggest IF about Singler in my mind is his ability to see the penetrating passing game from the outside and play off it. An unproven commodity because Duke has not deployed that way but he does not show the feel for it in a way that someone like Ryan does. Or Walton. If he has that, or more importantly the pros think he does, I think he might well be gone.

moonpie23
03-23-2010, 11:52 AM
If you're LA, who would you rather have, Walton or Singler? .........

He (Singler) is a terrific rebounder for his size, a terrific, terrific receiver of the ball, a solid shooter, and scores the ball in traffic among the trees. He is a terrific competitor.




this is a case where the apple has fallen WAY THE HECK DOWN THE HILL from the tree in walton's case..

luke walton's desire to win and competitiveness is an empty cheese-whiz can compared to luke's daddy OR kyle singler...

flyingdutchdevil
03-23-2010, 11:54 AM
With the exception of a few (here's to looking at you, Shavlik), Duke players rarely leave early unless they are a guaranteed lottery. Hendo, Luol, Brand, Dunleavy, JWill, Avery - the list goes on (I still don't know what happened with Boozer).

Even if Singler leads his team to the FF, would he still be considered a lottery? I haven't seen many draft boards (and yes, they are more reliable than anyone on DBR) that have Kyle going in the lottery this year, not to mention EVEN going this year.

I have no doubt that Kyle wil make it to the NBA. I'd be a little shocked if he wasn't in the 8 man rotation a year after he enters the NBA. In his prime, he will be a starter. But I get the sense that it's all about the lottery. If he gets the sense that he is lottery material, he's bouncing. If not, he's staying.

That's the feeling I'm getting at least.

Orange&BlackSheep
03-23-2010, 12:00 PM
The real issue for Kyle I am sure is how much he enjoys school. Hansblahblah clearly was enjoying his life such that he extended his time on campus one year beyond where he needed to. I would think that Kyle's working on his basketball full time will improve his basketball more than another year playing college ball. But you only get to be a college kid once so hopefully he will value that experience enough to want one more year of it for the team's sake. If not, best of luck wherever the draft places you, Kyle!

UrinalCake
03-23-2010, 12:25 PM
[Nolan Smith is] coming back next year... no ifs ands or buts

I love Nolan and he's an incredibly candid guy, but there are plenty of examples of players who say they're staying and then wind up leaving. It's not necessarily that they're dishonest, sometimes their situation just changes or they change their minds. And almost everyone says that they're staying during the season so that it's not a distraction to the team.

That said, I think it's unlikely Nolan will go. This year's draft is very weak on point guards, but he needs to show more PG skills, especially assists.

sdotbarbee
03-23-2010, 12:38 PM
I love Nolan and he's an incredibly candid guy, but there are plenty of examples of players who say they're staying and then wind up leaving. It's not necessarily that they're dishonest, sometimes their situation just changes or they change their minds. And almost everyone says that they're staying during the season so that it's not a distraction to the team.

That said, I think it's unlikely Nolan will go. This year's draft is very weak on point guards, but he needs to show more PG skills, especially assists.

I agree 100%. Nolan is a shooting guard in a point guards body and will be back for his senior year. He can get to the basket, but is a better scorer than assist man and for him to be successful in the NBA he will have to create for teammates. With the strides this year he has made just think how good he will be next year.

Skitzle
03-23-2010, 12:55 PM
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I agree 100%. Nolan is a shooting guard in a point guards body and will be back for his senior year. He can get to the basket, but is a better scorer than assist man and for him to be successful in the NBA he will have to create for teammates. With the strides this year he has made just think how good he will be next year.

Marcus Thornton is an undersized 2 guard thats having an incredible rookie season. Granted his shot is light years ahead of Nolan's (which isnt in any way meant to offend Nolan's shot). But making it as an undersized 2 in the NBA is possible

papa whiskey
03-23-2010, 01:00 PM
http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/02/mock-draft/

Most don't have him in the first round much less in the lottery. Come on back Kyle.

rotogod00
03-23-2010, 01:10 PM
I love Nolan and he's an incredibly candid guy, but there are plenty of examples of players who say they're staying and then wind up leaving. It's not necessarily that they're dishonest, sometimes their situation just changes or they change their minds. And almost everyone says that they're staying during the season so that it's not a distraction to the team.

That said, I think it's unlikely Nolan will go. This year's draft is very weak on point guards, but he needs to show more PG skills, especially assists.

thing is, though, will he have much of an opportunity here, with mr. irving coming aboard.

rotogod00
03-23-2010, 01:28 PM
Chad Ford's latest has Singler at 58, about the same spot he's been for a month or two.

But, Mason Plumlee has vaulted himself up from the mid-30s, all the way to 23. There's no reason to be concerend that he's leaving, right? right?

Richard Berg
03-23-2010, 03:18 PM
I don't know if Nolan can refashion himself as a PG in time for the draft (this year's or next year's). Scheyer did it, but his basketball awareness has been off the charts from the moment he stepped on campus, and he wasn't competing with Kyrie. Nelson did it surprisingly well -- but only for a month or two, then was waived. Ewing ran the point here & there when Dockery underperformed, but didn't go far in the big league either. I don't need to repeat the Avery story.

Bottom line, I think Nolan's best chance is to make himself the best Ben Gordon-type player he can be. His shot mechanics are already vastly improved over his first two years, and can probably be improved further during his final summer.

Mason could become a top-5 pick after his junior year. Unlike our previous 6'11" freakishly athletic talent, he'd be foolish to take a spot in the late first round. I thought McRoberts made the right decision: thanks to chronic back problems, his stock had been in steady decline since his junior year of high school. Mason has nothing like that weighing on him. Nor will he have to shoulder the burden of an exceptionally young & depleted team like Josh did in '07. He can develop at his own pace, hopefully astonishing us all before too long.

Kyle's situation is a total wildcard until the tourney ends. Like it or not, the best (or best-looking) player on the best Final Four teams always get irrationally large boosts going into draft season.

Duke of Nashville
03-23-2010, 03:33 PM
http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/02/mock-draft/

Most don't have him in the first round much less in the lottery. Come on back Kyle.

ya but The HoopDoctors also predict that Kyle will retrun to have a "future lottery pick" player that goes by the name "Kyle Irving" who will be "dishing to him."

DevilHorns
03-31-2010, 02:07 AM
Kyle has hurt his draft stock with his 0-10 performance against Baylor's "NBA-like" big men. He needs a good game against WVU and Im sure he will bring it.

The thing is nobody has reported anything about his wrist injury. I wonder if his performance was assessed by NBA scouts as if he had no such injury and was playing 100% (though the picture of him cutting the net begs otherwise).

flyingdutchdevil
03-31-2010, 04:48 AM
Kyle has hurt his draft stock with his 0-10 performance against Baylor's "NBA-like" big men. He needs a good game against WVU and Im sure he will bring it.

The thing is nobody has reported anything about his wrist injury. I wonder if his performance was assessed by NBA scouts as if he had no such injury and was playing 100% (though the picture of him cutting the net begs otherwise).

Whilst true, sad how one game can affect someone's draft stock. Goes to show the power of the tournament when it comes to draft time.

That said, if we win the whole thing, is anyone going to be drafted in the first round this year? There is a very high change that this could happen.

When was the last time a team won the tournament and didn't have a lottery pick that year, not to mention a first rounder?

Strange, yet awesome, Final Four.

Saratoga2
03-31-2010, 06:48 AM
After so many good games for Kyle, it could just be that his wrist was injured, which impacted his shooting for one game. The scouts will take that into account on selection day. I doubt if Kyle was ever considered a lottery pick and may not have been a first round pick, so the chances of him staying are reasonable. As far as Irving being a future lottery pick, that remains to be seen, since he is still a high school player at this point.

Matches
03-31-2010, 08:33 AM
Kind of a funny take from Ford - because if Kyle does return I doubt he will play the 3 next year. He may get some minutes there but I anticipate seeing him more at the 4 given our backcourt depth next year.

If Kyle's a first-round pick, he should come out. If not, he should come back.

flyingdutchdevil
03-31-2010, 08:37 AM
If Kyle's a first-round pick, he should come out. If not, he should come back.

Sadly, I agree with this. There is basically no way (fine, fine - "very unlikely) that Kyle will be a lottery pick this year (and probably next year. How often do seniors become lottery picks?) If he gets a first-round promise from a team, it's in his best interest to bolt

CDu
03-31-2010, 08:49 AM
Sadly, I agree with this. There is basically no way (fine, fine - "very unlikely) that Kyle will be a lottery pick this year (and probably next year. How often do seniors become lottery picks?) If he gets a first-round promise from a team, it's in his best interest to bolt

It happened for Redick and Williams. They went from borderline first round picks to lottery picks by having monster senior years. It's not a regular occurrence, but it happens more than you might think.

chrisheery
03-31-2010, 09:36 AM
I love Kyle. He's a warrior. It is hard for K to have a state goal of getting him to the league after this year and not have it happen. I think it hurts us overall.

That said, we are a complete team next year if Kyle returns. My only concern is that K's loyalty to him might prevent the development of other guys who need playing time. Not much of a concern, though, because everyone is happy when you win a lot.

flyingdutchdevil
03-31-2010, 09:40 AM
It happened for Redick and Williams. They went from borderline first round picks to lottery picks by having monster senior years. It's not a regular occurrence, but it happens more than you might think.

I agree that Redick is a great example. I was under the impression that Williams was always borderline lottery during his junior year. I remember all the stories of how much it was a blessing that he stayed for his senior year.

sagegrouse
03-31-2010, 09:41 AM
That said, we are a complete team next year if Kyle returns. My only concern is that K's loyalty to him (Kyle) might prevent the development of other guys who need playing time. Not much of a concern, though, because everyone is happy when you win a lot.

Ahhh! One of the best examples I have ever seen of the fan lament: "Every silver lining has a cloud."

sagegrouse

chrisheery
03-31-2010, 09:45 AM
Ahhh! One of the best examples I have ever seen of the fan lament: "Every silver lining has a cloud."

sagegrouse

Ease up baby, I'm just saying that it might be hard for Coach K to balance trying to do everything he can to make Kyle look NBA ready with bringing along a bunch of new guys.

(I knew someone was going to say something about that line, though)

DevilHorns
03-31-2010, 09:50 AM
To be honest, since it was Kyle's wish to go pro this year, I kinda hope he has the most monstrous final 4 ever (which coincides with us winning the championship of course :D). But in all seriousness, if it was his sincere wish to launch to the NBA this year, then I want him to be in a position where he can do just that.

Indoor66
03-31-2010, 10:11 AM
To be honest, since it was Kyle's wish to go pro this year, I kinda hope he has the most monstrous final 4 ever (which coincides with us winning the championship of course :D). But in all seriousness, if it was his sincere wish to launch to the NBA this year, then I want him to be in a position where he can do just that.

I hope Kyle plays the way he has since he came to Duke and allows the game to come to him. The rest will take care of itself.

roywhite
03-31-2010, 10:14 AM
With an MVP type performance in the Final Four and a Duke national championship, does Kyle get some first round love and go pro?

I would gladly settle for that occurrence.

superdave
03-31-2010, 10:15 AM
First of all, if we win this thing, no one should be upset at Kyle if he does go pro.

Second, Kyle should declare and test the waters. There is absolutely no reason for him not to measure himself against others and get feedback on his pro prospects. Regardless of the angst of Duke fans, Kyle should test the waters.

flyingdutchdevil
03-31-2010, 10:19 AM
First of all, if we win this thing, no one should be upset at Kyle if he does go pro.

Second, Kyle should declare and test the waters. There is absolutely no reason for him not to measure himself against others and get feedback on his pro prospects. Regardless of the angst of Duke fans, Kyle should test the waters.

Completely agree on both points. However, there will always be Duke fans, especially on this board, who are upset with ANY player leaving early.

I also think that Kyle should declare just to see what a) he really needs to improve on and b) truly gauge whether he should come back or not.

Matches
03-31-2010, 10:22 AM
Second, Kyle should declare and test the waters. There is absolutely no reason for him not to measure himself against others and get feedback on his pro prospects. Regardless of the angst of Duke fans, Kyle should test the waters.

Totally agreed. He has nothing to lose by testing the waters - if it turns out he's not a first-round pick, he can always pull his name out and return to school.

And yeah - I have a hard time believing a killer Final 4 performance wouldn't put him in the first round.

MChambers
03-31-2010, 10:27 AM
First of all, if we win this thing, no one should be upset at Kyle if he does go pro.

I agree, but no one should be upset at him if we don't win, and he goes pro. He's given us three magnificent years.

At the same, I don't necessarily agree that he should go pro if he's a first round pick. As a way of maximizing his income over his career, that might be true. Balance that against having one more year of fun being a college student, playing for one of the greatest coaches of all time, and being on a team with a good shot at a national title. It's not all about money. Whenever Kyle goes pro, he will make enough money playing basketball to live well.

sagegrouse
03-31-2010, 10:35 AM
Ease up baby, I'm just saying that it might be hard for Coach K to balance trying to do everything he can to make Kyle look NBA ready with bringing along a bunch of new guys.

(I knew someone was going to say something about that line, though)

Easy, easy. It was keyed in exuberantly, not critically. :);)

I like to collect examples. The best have always been Duke football, most typically: "You know, I really worry that Coach [insert name: Roof, most recently] will have a winning season, and then someone will hire him away from us." Fortunately, Cutcliffe has made that one obsolete by both winning a few games and turning down his dream job with the Vols.

Another fan-ism is "whistling past the graveyard:" [Carolina fan] "I know we lost all our starters this year, but we have so many McDonald A-A's we should be just as good as 2009."

sagegrouse

UrinalCake
03-31-2010, 10:41 AM
Shane Battier is my best example of a guy who benefited by staying for his senior year. I don't know that he would have been drafted AT ALL after his junior year.

If Kyle does leave this year, my bet is that he gets drafted by San Antonio. They always seem to get guys who are proven winners yet other NBA teams find a reason to ignore.

jimsumner
03-31-2010, 02:26 PM
"Ease up baby, I'm just saying that it might be hard for Coach K to balance trying to do everything he can to make Kyle look NBA ready with bringing along a bunch of new guys."

Um, I believe Mr. Krzyzewski has something of a track record in balancing winning games and getting players drafted.

This seems like a pretty silly thing to worry about.

COYS
03-31-2010, 02:28 PM
"Ease up baby, I'm just saying that it might be hard for Coach K to balance trying to do everything he can to make Kyle look NBA ready with bringing along a bunch of new guys."

Um, I believe Mr. Krzyzewski has something of a track record in balancing winning games and getting players drafted.

This seems like a pretty silly thing to worry about.

Completely agree. I'm with the posters who want Kyle to have a monstrous final 4 and complete his goal of preparing himself for the league this season. However, if that doesn't happen and Kyle spends a fourth year in a Duke uniform, you can bet plenty of money that coach K will coach the team to win. Besides, if Kyle were to return and play himself into the lottery, that would only be a good thing for Duke's prospects as a team.

ChicagoCrazy84
03-31-2010, 04:03 PM
I think next year would be very very helpful for Kyle in preparation for the draft. Look, I may be the minoirty in this one, but I don't think it is necessarily Coach K's job to prep Kyle for the draft. He cares and he will do everything to get him in the right position to have a successful career, but his priority is making Duke basketball successful.
Here is why I think Kyle would benefit from a 4th year: Kyle has never played with an NBA level PG. He has played 3 years at Duke in a half court, motion offense. In all of these years, he has been one of the top 2 players to get shots in the offense. Next year we will be a deep, athletic, more up and down team thanks to KI, Felix, and Seth. We will be a much more sexy team for GM's to look at thanks to KI, Mason in his 2nd year, and Stephen's little brother. Our games will be littered with NBA scouts. I think this would be a great opportunity for scouts to see Kyle in a more balanced, high powered, pro style offense and see how he fits in with other athletes. Also, if the ACC was considered to be a down year with UNC having a poor season, it will be much better next year. Maryland will be back, UNC SHOULD be better with Harrison Barnes, NC State will be better, Virginia will be better (no Landesburg, I know) and Wake Forest will be good. There are some good SF prospects entering the ACC with Barnes of course, Bullock who can play multiple positions, Travis McKie, Mychal Parker, Jarrell Eddie, Jason Morris, etc. There will be a lot of opportunites for Kyle to showcase his ability against other young, athletic prospects night in and night out.

ice-9
04-06-2010, 01:08 AM
Now that Kyle has a national championship, I don't think he'll return. That he was with the seniors at the post game conference speaks volumes -- my bet is that Kyle is going to go pro.

If he does, I don't understand why he'd be picked lower than Hayward, Butler, or any other player from the Final Four. Kyle got the better of every single match-up...defensively AND offensively. He's shown in the second half of the season that he's adjusted to the SF role.

Here's to hoping he'll get picked in the lottery, and at worst, in the first round. I would LOVE to see him on a fundamentally sound team like the Spurs.

RoyalBlue08
04-06-2010, 01:11 AM
I think that Kyle will leave and get picked in the mid to late first round. As long as he is a first round pick, then I will be very happy for him. I don't think he has anything left to prove in college. After an early season slump, you could make an argument that he was playing better all around basketball than anyone else in the country late in the year. (I also think that some team is going to get a real steal later in the draft when they pick Kyle.)

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-06-2010, 01:11 AM
I think he test the waters, but ends up coming back

Spam Filter
04-06-2010, 01:14 AM
I think he's most likely gone.

DevilHorns
04-06-2010, 01:14 AM
I honestly hope Kyles draft stock shoots up high enough to a degree that he wants so he can fulfill his wish of leaving for the NBA this year.

When could his stock ever get higher than this? I hope he leaves because you know what, he wants to.

follyblue
04-06-2010, 01:15 AM
He is gone. Good luck Kyle and thanks for all the fish.

geraldsneighbor
04-06-2010, 01:19 AM
Can't really ask for much more out of Kyle. It's been an honor to have him for 3 years and for him to leave as a national champion.

cptnflash
04-06-2010, 01:30 AM
Today certainly helped, but with everyone and their brother declaring, I still don't see Kyle getting into the lottery. And he could still improve his draft position by staying another year and improving his shooting and his handle. He's good but not great at both. In the end, I hope whatever he does, it works out great for him. He's been everything we could have hoped for, and then some. If today was his last game at Duke, all I can say is "Thanks Kyle!"

Kewlswim
04-06-2010, 01:32 AM
Hi,

He wants to be a lottery pick or he will return to school. Now, this was before he won a National Championship. Winning this might change everything and he might decide that he wants to leave regardless of draft position.

GO DUKE!

blue post
04-06-2010, 01:33 AM
If you look back to past years, I think that playing well in and winning the NCAA championship is a huge boost to a player's draft stock. I'm not sure if the NBA scouts are influenced by a player's "cajones" to step it up in big games, or it's a result of media hype, but it's certainly there. Players who may have been late first or early second rounders pre-Final Four become late lottery or mid first rounders. It's probably irrational, based on a full college career's worth of game tape to allow two games to influence a draft pick, but I definitely think it happens every year.

Look at the past 5 years:
2009 - Hansbrough moving up into the lottery
2008 - Darrell Arthur moving into the first round, Sasha Kaun drafted
2007 - Horford, Noah, and especially Brewer skyrocketing up charts
2005 - Marvin Williams, Sean May, McCants all moving into the lottery

I think Kyle will also get the "Championship Boost" and find himself soundly in the first round. His draft stock will probably never be higher, and if he can get himself into the late lottery or mid first round, I say he should take that opportunity to pursue his dream of becoming an NBA player. It's really in his own best interest, and he deserves it.

This has nothing to do with Kyle, who I think will be an NBA starter in a few years, but it is interesting to note. In some cases, this "Championship Boost" has been a blessing for NBA teams, picking up previously underrated players such as Horford, Noah, (dare I say it) Hansbrough. But more often, the picks turn out to be a reach: see Williams, May, McCants, Brewer, etc.

Spam Filter
04-06-2010, 01:35 AM
Hanstravel was a reach, and he's been terrible in the NBA.

papa whiskey
04-06-2010, 01:36 AM
[QUOTE=jyuwono;393010]Now that Kyle has a national championship, I don't think he'll return. That he was with the seniors at the post game conference speaks volumes -- my bet is that Kyle is going to go pro.


He was the MOP. That is why he was at the podium. He may leave but it is not a done deal. IMO being a late first round pick is not reason enough to leave early. If he returns, he is the preseason NPOY and has a chance at another ring and the lottery. Not nearly as many one and done lottery locks next year as there is this year.

SoCalDukeFan
04-06-2010, 01:39 AM
that whatever he does he makes millions.

Kyle and Kevin Love were great high school players in Oregon. UCLA got Love, we got Kyle. We won that deal.

SoCal

COYS
04-06-2010, 01:41 AM
If you look back to past years, I think that playing well in and winning the NCAA championship is a huge boost to a player's draft stock. I'm not sure if the NBA scouts are influenced by a player's "cajones" to step it up in big games, or it's a result of media hype, but it's certainly there. Players who may have been late first or early second rounders pre-Final Four become late lottery or mid first rounders. It's probably irrational, based on a full college career's worth of game tape to allow two games to influence a draft pick, but I definitely think it happens every year.

Look at the past 5 years:
2009 - Hansbrough moving up into the lottery
2008 - Darrell Arthur moving into the first round, Sasha Kaun drafted
2007 - Horford, Noah, and especially Brewer skyrocketing up charts
2005 - Marvin Williams, Sean May, McCants all moving into the lottery

I think Kyle will also get the "Championship Boost" and find himself soundly in the first round. His draft stock will probably never be higher, and if he can get himself into the late lottery or mid first round, I say he should take that opportunity to pursue his dream of becoming an NBA player. It's really in his own best interest, and he deserves it.

This has nothing to do with Kyle, who I think will be an NBA starter in a few years, but it is interesting to note. In some cases, this "Championship Boost" has been a blessing for NBA teams, picking up previously underrated players such as Horford, Noah, (dare I say it) Hansbrough. But more often, the picks turn out to be a reach: see Williams, May, McCants, Brewer, etc.

I would argue that Noah actually dropped by returning for the 2007 season. Many experts had him at number 1 after the 2006 title.

I really hope that Singler finds his way into the middle of the first round. I honestly don't see the downside to taking him. Worst-case scenario for Kyle in the NBA is that he's an effective shooter and playmaker off the bench who will take care of the ball, pull down a few boards, and make some nice shots. He's as fundamentally sound as they come (and his shot has never looked sweeter). Despite the concerns about who he guards in the league, he's been an underrated defender at a wide variety of positions at Duke and the guys who would eat him up (lebron, Durant, etc.) eat everyone up. If a ridiculously raw and unprepared prospect like Bledsoe can go in the lottery and if Joe Alexander could be drafted high two years ago because he had one good game against Duke when Singler had some serious foul trouble, I don't see how a consistent performer like Singler can't go in the first round.

DevilHorns
04-06-2010, 01:54 AM
COOL STAT ON ESPN!


20.0 PPG, 9.0 PPG in Final Four
by MOP in Last 15 Years

Player PPG RPG School
'10 Kyle Singler 20.0 9.0 Duke
'04 Emeka Okafor 21.0 11.0 UConn
'03 Carmelo Anthony 26.5 12.0 Syracuse
'01 Shane Battier 21.5 9.5 Duke

wallyman
04-06-2010, 01:55 AM
Great to see him as Tournament MVP. What a warrior, teammate, citizen and role model. If he comes back, we're lucky beyond belief. If he goes, I bet he has a long and successful NBA career. Can do much, much more than Hanstravel, and he could be a huge part of a really good NBA team. We've been lucky to have him. One of the all-time great Duke players.

bjornolf
04-06-2010, 02:00 AM
One more year! One more year! One more year!

AZLA
04-06-2010, 02:02 AM
My initial reaction to this thread was, hey, enjoy tonight's win ... congratulations, Singler! But then I see posts saying he won't be a first round pick? Singler is a NBA First Rounder (mid to late at worst). Have no delusions. He's a highly skilled shooter with size, great basketball IQ, and a decent ball handle. And now he's a NCAA Champion. His overall Final Four performance (MOP) is the icing on the cake with his rough Butler game performance all but forgotten. It would be special if he came back, but this situation sort of reminds me a little of Dunleavy Jr. in his junior year (although his championship was earned the previous year), deciding to go pro. This despite the potential of being the POY if he returned. Again, it would be great if he returned, but for now -- Congratulations, Kyle!

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-06-2010, 02:14 AM
Am I the only one who think he returns? I think he puts his name in the draft yes, but I think he returns for another year, it will help his draft stock and he has the chance to repeat

DevilHorns
04-06-2010, 02:19 AM
Am I the only one who think he returns? I think he puts his name in the draft yes, but I think he returns for another year, it will help his draft stock and he has the chance to repeat

I think he leaves. His stock is as high as it can get IMO. He can improve his game over one more year definitely, but its hard to say his stock will improve. NBA drafts are governed a lot by the perception of talent ceiling. I think scouts have a good enough feel of him to know what they are getting. I would speculate late first round, perhaps higher if there's the right team that has a niche to fill.

ACCBBallFan
04-06-2010, 02:27 AM
I don't think returning necessarily helps or hurts Kyle's NBA draft stock, kind of like JJ and Hansbrough.

In that regard, he could potentially be, with same stats as this year:

#1 in Duke history in Games played, Games started and minutes played,

#2 in FG Attempts,

#3 in Offensive Rebounds,

# 3-4 in points,

#5 in FG Made,

#6 in Defensive Rebounds,

#7 in FT attempts,

#8 in FT Made,

and also be a senior captain along with Nolan Smith.

papa whiskey
04-06-2010, 02:31 AM
Nolan Smith needs to handcuff himself to Kyle for the next month and convince him of the potential team he could be returning to. As has been said, draft status is as much about the other players in the draft. IMO, Cousins, Aminu, Favors, Monroe, ... On the surface there seems to be a lot less depth at the foward spot next year.

gumbomoop
04-06-2010, 02:37 AM
While we all want KS to do what's best for his future, and while honest people can disagree about what would be best for him [think debate re G at end of last season], the subtext of this thread is clearly, "How good will Duke be next year? Can we repeat?" [We will never be satisfied. Sigh.]

So, first, be warned that K will say, with very good reason, that next season his team will not be trying to "repeat," but will be "pursuing" a NC. Whatever KS does, this team loses 3 senior starters, and will have a very different look next year. Call it up-tempo, big time. They will definitely be "pursuing."

Second, here's an opinion on "how good": If KS returns, preseason #1. If not, preseason top 5, probably top 3.

There is absolutely no bad news here, no matter KS's tough decision. We are in high, high cotton at this moment, and will be next November. Anyone who, right now, frets overmuch about next season is, colloquially speaking, nuts.

grateful_duke
04-06-2010, 02:43 AM
If Kyle does leave, then it WAS Mike Dunleavy all over again all along...let alone the obvious comparisons like skill-set and appearance...

...Duke wins the title and then he jumps to the NBA...just like Mike did in 01...if he would have stayed he would have had a great shot at National Player of the Year and back-to-back titles....

Hopefully this time, the mini-LarryBird will make the right decision and come back to Durham..

-bdbd
04-06-2010, 02:44 AM
My initial reaction to this thread was, hey, enjoy tonight's win ... congratulations, Singler! But then I see posts saying he won't be a first round pick? Singler is a NBA First Rounder (mid to late at worst). Have no delusions. He's a highly skilled shooter with size, great basketball IQ, and a decent ball handle. And now he's a NCAA Champion. His overall Final Four performance (MOP) is the icing on the cake with his rough Butler game performance all but forgotten. It would be special if he came back, but this situation sort of reminds me a little of Dunleavy Jr. in his junior year (although his championship was earned the previous year), deciding to go pro. This despite the potential of being the POY if he returned. Again, it would be great if he returned, but for now -- Congratulations, Kyle!

I agree 110% about this not being the time. Worry about this topic next week. Tonight/today is for cellebrating our well-earned NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. For the younger fans --- revel in this, fully appreciate and enjoy it. You never know if you'll EVER pass this way again. It is truly special. Nirvana!!!

:D :D :D :D

Acymetric
04-06-2010, 02:46 AM
If Kyle does leave, then it WAS Mike Dunleavy all over again all along...let alone the obvious comparisons like skill-set and appearance...

...Duke wins the title and then he jumps to the NBA...just like Mike did in 01...if he would have stayed he would have had a great shot at National Player of the Year and back-to-back titles....

Hopefully this time, the mini-LarryBird will make the right decision and come back to Durham..

Except that we've known all year that Kyle wanted to go pro. It shouldn't surprise anyone if he does.

Bay Area Duke Fan
04-06-2010, 02:47 AM
If Kyle does leave, then it WAS Mike Dunleavy all over again all along...let alone the obvious comparisons like skill-set and appearance...

...Duke wins the title and then he jumps to the NBA...just like Mike did in 01...if he would have stayed he would have had a great shot at National Player of the Year and back-to-back titles....

Hopefully this time, the mini-LarryBird will make the right decision and come back to Durham..

Dunleavy did not leave right after the 2001 title. He returned (as a junior) for the 2002 season and then left.

juise
04-06-2010, 02:54 AM
Dunleavy did not leave right after the 2001 title. He returned (as a junior) for the 2002 season and then left.

And he was the #3 player selected. How could anyone turn down that kind of opportunity. Kyle's draft situation is a closer call, IMO. People are saying that he can't get any better, but I definitely think that there's room to improve his perimeter defense and penetration, which could be huge for him at the next level (where he will play against quick small forwards). I want him to do the best thing for him, and I think that could mean returning.

Neals384
04-06-2010, 03:12 AM
I think he leaves. His stock is as high as it can get IMO. He can improve his game over one more year definitely, but its hard to say his stock will improve. NBA drafts are governed a lot by the perception of talent ceiling. I think scouts have a good enough feel of him to know what they are getting. I would speculate late first round, perhaps higher if there's the right team that has a niche to fill.

I think his stock can go much higher. Next year he has the potential to demonstrate his adaptability by excelling on a totally different kind of team - an up-tempo style play led by a natural point guard.

However, Kyle has said he wants to play in the NBA but not before he is ready. If he thinks he's ready, I believe he'll go regardless of where he might be drafted.

LSanders
04-06-2010, 04:42 AM
It'll be interesting to find out what he decides. Obviously, he'll be a beloved Devil forever regardless.

However, we'll take a 50% cut in each of his first four years between lottery/mid and end of the first round.

Next year's team seems the have potential to become a classic K ball pressure defensive team AND a high-powered, transition-oriented offensive team. I'm sure that with a summer of weight room, conditioning, off-season, etc. work, Miles will improve tremendously.

Mason seems to potentially be the most athletic big we've had in a long, long time. His upside is scary.

The guards, of course, are gonna be off the planet ... The best perimeter crew Duke's ever put on the floor.

What would Kyle be able to achieve with Kyrie and Nolan penetrating and dishing ... Seth and Dre creating space by lighting up teams from beyond the arc? I would think he'd improve his status by staying.

BUT ... There's lots of concern about a lockout after next season. How will that play into his decision?

grateful_duke
04-06-2010, 05:08 AM
Dunleavy did not leave right after the 2001 title. He returned (as a junior) for the 2002 season and then left.

My mistake, meant 02...ahhhh that @#*$!@ Indiana game. He should of came back for 2003...but seriously can't argue against leaving when he was drafted #3 overall...

Singler should stay...he'll have a better season next year and only improve his stock.

rotogod00
04-06-2010, 09:07 AM
chad ford tweeted last nite that kyle AND nolan both improved their draft stock big time last nite:

"No. Don't go overboard. Late first, early 2nd? RT @AzraelPC2 Singler HAS to be a lottery pick after that performance, yes?" about 9 hours ago via web

"Great game. Kyle Singler helped his draft stock. Hayward has a lot of fans despite an uneven game tonight. Nolan Smith getting love too." about 9 hours ago via web

NSDukeFan
04-06-2010, 09:15 AM
Fortunately, Kyle is in a win-win situation. Leave and he will forever be a Duke legend and will make money in the NBA next year. Stay and he will forever be a Duke legend, have another shot at a final four run, and climb up career lists at Duke and likely have his jersey retired. Tough decision and whichever he chooses, it is the right decision. I love the quote from the article I link here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/andy_staples/04/06/duke.singler/index.html?eref=sihp


Asked early Tuesday morning what he plans to do next season, Singler said he had "no idea." He said he plans to consult with his family and Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski before he makes his decision. "I'm just going to let myself be open to what coach has to say," Singler said. "He has my best interests in mind."

I know he's right.

MrBisonDevil
04-06-2010, 09:30 AM
A lot of kids will leave for the NBA this year. From what I've read, there is not a NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement for 2011. Any new CBA will probably drastically cut NBA contracts across the board. There are rumbling that the 2011 season will be locked out. Therefore, college players need to cash in during 2010 or face the possibility of being out of luck.

I'm not sure how money plays in Kyle's decision, but if it's a huge decision point, then this is the year to go pro (unless he has a realistic chance to be a lottery pick in 2011).

whereinthehellami
04-06-2010, 10:30 AM
Singler should go. For himself. He had a great year. Won a title and was the MVP. His dream is to play in the NBA. He should follow his dreams. I think he answered all of the critics. He played phenomally at the 3 at the end of the season when it mattered most. He strikes me as a kid fueled by his goals. He has a chance to realize another goal.

Clipsfan
04-06-2010, 12:50 PM
Singler should go. For himself. He had a great year. Won a title and was the MVP. His dream is to play in the NBA. He should follow his dreams. I think he answered all of the critics. He played phenomally at the 3 at the end of the season when it mattered most. He strikes me as a kid fueled by his goals. He has a chance to realize another goal.

As much as I hope that Singler comes back both for my own selfish reasons and to achieve everything that he can in the college game (he has the chance to accomplish a tremendous amount next year, including being a potential frontrunner for POY), I will wish him the best if he goes pro. He's the epitome of what K looks for in his players (along with the rest of the senior class) and I couldn't be happier for him no matter what he chooses. I also trust that K will advise him appropriately as to whether he should leave, and there is a decent chance that the advice will be to move on. I can only hope that he comes back because I want to root for him in Duke blue for one more year.

rotogod00
04-06-2010, 01:48 PM
In his current chat on ESPN, Chad Ford "hears Singler's people are already talking to agents."

So maybe he's not even going to test the waters. Might just be going "all in"

camion
04-06-2010, 01:54 PM
Kyle has been a warrior for three years. I want him to come back for a fourth, but I will be a Singler fan no matter what his decision. In his place I would test the waters and get the best counsel I could get, then go with my heart. If he thinks he's ready to move on the so be it. If decides to come back that's good too.

ice-9
04-06-2010, 02:39 PM
Singler doesn't need to test the waters. Coach K has enough NBA connections that he should get a pretty good feel for where Singler will go.

Singler should go. It's time. He's proven this season already that he can play the SF role. He's won a national championship as the MOP of the Final Four. His skills can improve, but only incrementally.

I mean just look at his season average: 17.7 points (on 40% shooting), 7 rebounds, 2.4 assists. And that's with a relatively down first half.

If he returned next year, what could he realistically expect? 20 points per game? Maybe 8 rebounds? Will that kind of improvement really merit a big jump in the draft? And what if he doesn't achieve better numbers, or gets injured?

Channing
04-06-2010, 02:48 PM
Singler doesn't need to test the waters. Coach K has enough NBA connections that he should get a pretty good feel for where Singler will go.

Singler should go. It's time. He's proven this season already that he can play the SF role. He's won a national championship as the MOP of the Final Four. His skills can improve, but only incrementally.

I mean just look at his season average: 17.7 points (on 40% shooting), 7 rebounds, 2.4 assists. And that's with a relatively down first half.

If he returned next year, what could he realistically expect? 20 points per game? Maybe 8 rebounds? Will that kind of improvement really merit a big jump in the draft? And what if he doesn't achieve better numbers, or gets injured?

I think a jump in draft is not predicated by him getting better, but rather by a weaker class. There are a lot of strong SF coming out this year, and others coming out earlier than they would because of the pending lockout. I maintain that, lockout or not, Singler will do better financially being drafted top 10 next year than 25-30 this year.

Chicago 1995
04-06-2010, 02:52 PM
I think a jump in draft is not predicated by him getting better, but rather by a weaker class. There are a lot of strong SF coming out this year, and others coming out earlier than they would because of the pending lockout. I maintain that, lockout or not, Singler will do better financially being drafted top 10 next year than 25-30 this year.

Given the concessions that Stern is looking for from the players, I don't think anyone can be certain that Kyle, even if he jumps that much, will be in a better financial place.

Second, I don't know that Kyle's going to make that kind of a move. Yes, the draft class will be weaker, but Kyle's stock won't change that much. For better or worse, he is who he is, and the league will treat him as such.

I can understand why he'd stay, but there are some really good reasons for him to go.

And it's not like he's got anything left to do. He won a National Championship -- chills just typing that -- and that's what he came to Duke to do. The individual accolades he could chase might not mean enough to Kyle to be the draw to come back.

Big Pappa
04-06-2010, 02:55 PM
I think a jump in draft is not predicated by him getting better, but rather by a weaker class. There are a lot of strong SF coming out this year, and others coming out earlier than they would because of the pending lockout. I maintain that, lockout or not, Singler will do better financially being drafted top 10 next year than 25-30 this year.

Yeah I totally agree. I think he would have a good shot at a very late first to early second round selection this year, whereas next year I think he is in the lottery.

I hope that the NBA can figure out the CBA so that it won't force these kids to have to declare out of fear of a lockout. Even so, if Kyle decides to leave I'll support him and we will still be a great team next year. Remember after last year when Hendo left everyone said that if he would have stayed we would win it all. Well it all worked out for the best.

BD80
04-06-2010, 03:47 PM
I think the NBA lockout is more influential for the players who want to start ANY NBA income stream, compared to those who want to maximize that stream. In other words, you will see a group of players coming out this year willing to take low first round or second round money next year (to last two years) rather than have to wait two years (lockout) before getting any money. If I understand correctly, there would still be a draft next year, even if the players couldn't sign due to the lockout. I don't know why it is different than what happened to the NHL, which ended up combining two drafts into one year.

I don't see the NBA messing with the rookie salary cap, it is the biggest boondoggle the owners have going. The can lock up young stars for 5 years at minimal money. There is a dispute about revenue sharing between players and owners, but the rookie money isn't really a big part of that.

By giving up some money next year, and possibly enduring a lock-out year, Kyle could take advantage of a weaker draft class next year and make more money in the long run.

Is this asumption correct?

MChambers
04-06-2010, 03:55 PM
I think the NBA lockout is more influential for the players who want to start ANY NBA income stream, compared to those who want to maximize that stream. In other words, you will see a group of players coming out this year willing to take low first round or second round money next year (to last two years) rather than have to wait two years (lockout) before getting any money. If I understand correctly, there would still be a draft next year, even if the players couldn't sign due to the lockout. I don't know why it is different than what happened to the NHL, which ended up combining two drafts into one year.

I don't see the NBA messing with the rookie salary cap, it is the biggest boondoggle the owners have going. The can lock up young stars for 5 years at minimal money. There is a dispute about revenue sharing between players and owners, but the rookie money isn't really a big part of that.

Not to hijack this thread, but if there isn't a labor agreement, the NBA probably can't keep the rookie salary cap. Wouldn't that be funny?

BD80
04-06-2010, 04:01 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but if there isn't a labor agreement, the NBA probably can't keep the rookie salary cap. Wouldn't that be funny?

I think only the Nyets and the Knicks would be willing to go forward without a salary cap. Even the Mavs and the Lakers would demand a cap (but they like the really soft ones).

MChambers
04-06-2010, 04:04 PM
I think only the Nyets and the Knicks would be willing to go forward without a salary cap. Even the Mavs and the Lakers would demand a cap (but they like the really soft ones).

I'm not an antitrust lawyer, but I believe that a sports league can only implement a salary cap as part of a collective bargaining agreement with a union. If the union doesn't reach an accord, there is no cap. Of course, at that point, there is a lockout, in all likelihood.

Someone who knows more about antitrust law, or the status of the league-union negotiations should step in and correct me.

rotogod00
04-06-2010, 04:10 PM
Singler doesn't need to test the waters. Coach K has enough NBA connections that he should get a pretty good feel for where Singler will go.

Singler should go. It's time. He's proven this season already that he can play the SF role. He's won a national championship as the MOP of the Final Four. His skills can improve, but only incrementally.

I mean just look at his season average: 17.7 points (on 40% shooting), 7 rebounds, 2.4 assists. And that's with a relatively down first half.

If he returned next year, what could he realistically expect? 20 points per game? Maybe 8 rebounds? Will that kind of improvement really merit a big jump in the draft? And what if he doesn't achieve better numbers, or gets injured?

NBA teams would want to see a little more consistency with the J. A FG % closer to 45% would be nice. But what teams would love to see him show is the ability to guard the 3 position at the next level. That might be the biggest thing keeping him from the top half of the 1st round right now.

Greg_Newton
04-06-2010, 04:51 PM
Singler doesn't need to test the waters. Coach K has enough NBA connections that he should get a pretty good feel for where Singler will go.

Singler should go. It's time. He's proven this season already that he can play the SF role. He's won a national championship as the MOP of the Final Four. His skills can improve, but only incrementally.

I mean just look at his season average: 17.7 points (on 40% shooting), 7 rebounds, 2.4 assists. And that's with a relatively down first half.

If he returned next year, what could he realistically expect? 20 points per game? Maybe 8 rebounds? Will that kind of improvement really merit a big jump in the draft? And what if he doesn't achieve better numbers, or gets injured?

I think the key for Singler is how he gets his points. He hasn't really emphatically proven that he can create his own shot against NBA-level SFs, he gets most of his points on spot up jumpers and set plays. That type of scoring doesn't translate very well to the NBA, as JJ will tell you (and Kyle hasn't really established himself as a lights-out shooter like JJ, either). I think the play in the WVU game where Kyle crossed over, stepped back, and drained a contested 19-footer might have helped his draft stock more than winning Final Four MOP did.

If Singler leaves, I'll understand and support him 100% - he's given his heart and soul to the program for 3 years, sacrificed a lot, and brought us a championship. Plus, I'm not sure how well he'd fit on next year's team - would he thrive in a fast-breaking, run and gun system? Would it be best for the team for him to play the 4, and would that be fair to ask of him if he returned?

But nonetheless, I'm just not sure he's ready to be a solid NBA contributor yet. I think another year of ballhandling work and molding his body could really help him, but it's up to him (and the scouts) where he wants to do that. Given his career, there's not really a wrong choice at this point.