MBB: Virginia 75, UNC-CH 60

[jimrowe0]

Wondering who is watching this? I will hand it to Virginia, they have played well. A vast improvement over last year and of course Landesburg is a great player.

[dukemsu]

but Virginia has straight up kicked the hell out of them to this point.

I'll believe it when I see the final, though.

dukemsu

[arnie]

Wondering who is watching this? I will hand it to Virginia, they have played well. A vast improvement over last year and of course Landesburg is a great player.

Ole Roy just explained its due to injuries. I mean, losing to Virginia at home by nearly 20 isn't all that bad if Larry Drews fingers are taped up.

[Duvall]

Ole Roy just explained its due to injuries. I mean, losing to Virginia at home by nearly 20 isn't all that bad if Larry Drews fingers are taped up.

Unpossible. We have reliably assured that Roy hasn't used the injuries as an excuse.

[jimrowe0]

but Virginia has straight up kicked the hell out of them to this point.

I'll believe it when I see the final, though.

dukemsu

Its definitely not over yet...

[hc5duke]

Will unc be hanging a banner for "NIT runner-up" when they lose to uconn in the final game?

[arnie]

Unpossible. We have reliably assured that Roy hasn't used the injuries as an excuse.

Larry Drew has become my favorite tar wheel of all time

[airowe]

Will unc be hanging a banner for "NIT runner-up" when they lose to uconn in the final game?

They won't win the NIT.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/Revisited/3rdplaceNIT.jpg

[arnie]

Will unc be hanging a banner for "NIT runner-up" when they lose to uconn in the final game?

Absolutely, right by their NIT 3rd place banner. But, i don't see them getting that far - maybe NIT participant banner.

[strawbs]

down 20 with 7:23 to go, if UNC comes back i'd be shocked. This game is reminding me a lot of duke g'town game from saturday. One team dominating, and the other team showing very little fight

[jimrowe0]

I will be very interested to see what happens in the UNC fan base if Carolina doesn't make the tournament. Ol' Roy will definitely catch a lot of heat if they don't....

[CameronBlue]

I will be very interested to see what happens in the UNC fan base if Carolina doesn't make the tournament. Ol' Roy will definitely catch a lot of heat if they don't....

Maybe but Roy's playing with house money. 2 NCs to Duke's 0 since he arrived in Humpsville, and he landed Barnes. Gonna take an 8-20 season before the Toolie faithful bring the heavy pressure.

[bird]

The lesson of the Doh years: enjoy it while it happens.

[dukemsu]

1. UVA is good.

2. The Heels are now in serious bubble trouble. There's no excuse for a team that talented (young as they may be) to be kicked like that in their own building.

3. Larry Drew is a deadeye shooter when down 20 points.

dukemsu

[jimrowe0]

2. The Heels are now in serious bubble trouble. There's no excuse for a team that talented (young as they may be) to be kicked like that in their own building.



That is my main issue. Thats on Ol' Roy

[arnie]

1. UVA is good.

2. The Heels are now in serious bubble trouble. There's no excuse for a team that talented (young as they may be) to be kicked like that in their own building.

3. Larry Drew is a deadeye shooter when down 20 points.

dukemsu

Yea, Drew shoots well when it doesn't matter, he also commits fouls late in the shot clock when it might matter.

Enjoy the night!

[Bluedog]

1. UVA is good.

2. The Heels are now in serious bubble trouble. There's no excuse for a team that talented (young as they may be) to be kicked like that in their own building.

3. Larry Drew is a deadeye shooter when down 20 points.

dukemsu

I dunno if you can say those things for certain.


1. UVA is good.

Maybe...but good teams shouldn't lose to South Florida, Stanford, Penn State (0-9 in the Big Ten) AND Auburn. I'd say they're greatly improved from last season though.


2. The Heels are now in serious bubble trouble. There's no excuse for a team that talented (young as they may be) to be kicked like that in their own building.

I hope so...but they do have some solid wins, namely Ohio St and Michigan St. The college of charleston loss is by far the worst, but the others were to respectable teams. If they can be in the 40s-50s in RPI, they'll get in with their name...

Having said that, I'm enjoying this for sure! GTHC!

[dukemsu]

I dunno if you can say those things for certain.



Maybe...but good teams shouldn't lose to South Florida, Stanford, Penn State (0-9 in the Big Ten) AND Auburn. I'd say they're greatly improved from last season though.



I hope so...but they do have some solid wins, namely Ohio St and Michigan St. The college of charleston loss is by far the worst, but the others were to respectable teams. If they can be in the 40s-50s in RPI, they'll get in with their name...

Having said that, I'm enjoying this for sure! GTHC!

I'm sure they will get in. However, the word bubble is now attached to their name for the next five weeks.

dukemsu

[DevilHorns]

Maybe but Roy's playing with house money. 2 NCs to Duke's 0 since he arrived in Humpsville, and he landed Barnes. Gonna take an 8-20 season before the Toolie faithful bring the heavy pressure.

Agreed. Roy (though we all hate to admit) has done a fantastic job since he's been at UNC. He's snatching pretty much any recruit he wants. This is a down year for them, but this team has a lot of young talent with a lot of potential. Lets hope they dont develop that potential :P

[grossbus]

"The lesson of the Doh years: enjoy it while it happens."

amen to that, and muzzle jason.

[CameronBlue]

Experienced teams win championships and make their coaches look like geniuses, inexperienced teams loose by 20 and make their coaches look like schmucks see, UNC 2009 vs UNC 2010.

Which is what I find most disturbing about yesterday's Gtown blowout, this year Duke is the experienced team.

[JBDuke]

What a great win for the Hoos! I've actually been a UVA fan longer than I've been a Duke fan, and I'm trying to remember if they've EVER won by 15 in Chapel Hill. Paging Olympic Fan or Mr. Featherston!!!

Edit: just scanned the UVA media guide, and it looks to me like this is by far their biggest win in Chapel Hill. The previous best was a six-point win back in '73. Wow.

[Newton_14]

Too funny. I tuned in after the thread alerted me they were getting punked at home. I had pretty much given this game to the holes after watching them against State. In no way did I see this coming. I figured the holes would pound it inside all game and that UVA would not be able to do anything about it.

Wow. I will take the aforementioned advice and enjoy the heck out of this. Not sure how the first 30 minutes of the game went, but UVA pretty much got what they wanted when they wanted down the stretch. Loved seeing ol roy raise the white flag with a minute to go and loved the G-Man busting out laughing when the UVA kid hit the impossible 3 from the corner with McDonald all over him and the shot clock down to nothing.. That was sweet!!

If ol roy does not have his ticker explode between now and then, his radio show on Tuesday should be very entertaining...

Kickem when their up, kickem when their down...

[Wheat/"/"/"]

What can be said after that performance at home?

Virgina did play well, their quickness on the double teams inside gave the Heels big problems. And they shot it well.

But, giving up an 18-0 run at home to start the 2nd half? Same old problem shows up again.

This team has serious chemistry issues. No communication and it leads to the TO's. I thought they would play through it, but after ths game I think Roy has to shake things up.

He's going to have to sit Ginyard and start Strickland. Ginyard's confidence is shot, and he's way too hesitant in every phase of the game and it's killing them.
It's not all on Ginyard. Davis has got to play smarter, and Deon has to play tougher.

They have some work to do to right the ship.

[calltheobvious]

What a great win for the Hoos! I've actually been a UVA fan longer than I've been a Duke fan, and I'm trying to remember if they've EVER won by 15 in Chapel Hill. Paging Olympic Fan or Mr. Featherston!!!

As he was signing off, Brando said that this was the biggest victory ever for UVa in Chapel Hill. We should probably not cancel the pages though, as Brando would sooner make something up than say nothing at all.

[Lord Ash]

I am SO

so

so

so

so

so

so

so

SO

so

SOOOOOOOO

darn angry

that Clemson doesn't play at Carolina this year. That is the worst result of the imbalanced schedule that I have seen.

[roywhite]

Experienced teams win championships and make their coaches look like geniuses, inexperienced teams loose by 20 and make their coaches look like schmucks see, UNC 2009 vs UNC 2010.

Which is what I find most disturbing about yesterday's Gtown blowout, this year Duke is the experienced team.

UNC's starting team:
Drew---sophomore
Ginyard---5th year senior
Thompson---senior
Graves---4th year junior
Davis---sophomore

It's not a young team, and they knew this year was coming (meaning Roy knew he'd be losing Hansbrough and crew).

Between UVa and UNC---which team has the more experience? the HOF coach? the McDonald's HS All-Americas?

[DevilHorns]

I said this in another thread, but a split with UNC this year is unacceptable. Yes, I said it. We better win at the Dean Dome, and its not even a question that we better win at Cameron.

I want both of them. I want them selfishly. I want them to be 30 point spankings. I want to see Roy rip off his tie and turn red. I want them so bad that for each one I will go to my backyard, burn some of my own wooden furniture, and get fined by the local police.

[sleepybear]

I said this in another thread, but a split with UNC this year is unacceptable. Yes, I said it. We better win at the Dean Dome, and its not even a question that we better win at Cameron.

I want both of them. I want them selfishly. I want them to be 30 point spankings. I want to see Roy rip off his tie and turn red. I want them so bad that for each one I will go to my backyard, burn some of my own wooden furniture, and get fined by the local police.

I want you giving the pep talk to the Devils before the games.

[AlaskanAssassin]

It could be a potential 4 game losing streak until the ncsu game. Tough games ahead for them. If they do lose the away games, they could put all their anger on us.

[CDu]

What a great win for the Hoos! I've actually been a UVA fan longer than I've been a Duke fan, and I'm trying to remember if they've EVER won by 15 in Chapel Hill. Paging Olympic Fan or Mr. Featherston!!!

According to Tim Brando in the post-game comments, it was the largest margin of victory for UVa ever in Chapel Hill.

Interesting notes from the game:
1. UVa played a large portion of the game with three quicker, smaller guards on the floor. This is something I hope we do some next year with Smith, Irving, and Curry, playing Singler (if he returns) at the 4. It's something that we just don't have the personnel to do right now. I'm not saying we should go with that lineup predominantly, but it's a nice change of pace. And I definitely want to see two quicker guards on the court at all times next year (or at least darn close to at all times). It makes a big difference.

2. Despite playing a ton of players, UNC got next to nothing from anybody tonight other than 3s by Graves and Drew (and Drew's were all really late). It's crazy, but for a team that was supposed to be great in the paint but weak outside, they got nearly half of their points on 3s.

3. Davis and Thompson combined for 11 points and 11 rebounds. UNC can't win without at least one of those guys being a factor.

Great game by the Hoos. They minimized turnovers (for the most part) and played a brilliant game in taking UNC's bigs out of the game. You can bet that Seth Greenberg and Gary Williams have taken notes on this one.

This loss puts UNC in a precarious spot. They have seven tough games left (@Maryland, @GT, @Duke, Duke, FSU, @Wake, and @VT). They have to win at least three of those to be tourney-bound, which means they'll have to at least win one very challenging road game and win two tough home games. And even if they go 3-4 in those games, they then cannot lose @BC or against NC State or Miami at home. Things are going to have to turn around very quickly.

Their next three games (@VT) is a critical stretch for UNC. They could very easily find themselves 4-6 heading into the home stretch, with three very difficult road games in the last six. They probably need to win two of those three games to feel good about their chances of making the NCAA tournament. If they don't, then they'll need to steal a VERY difficult road game or two down the stretch. And they absolutely can't go 0-3.

[CameronBlue]

UNC's starting team:
Drew---sophomore
Ginyard---5th year senior
Thompson---senior
Graves---4th year junior
Davis---sophomore

It's not a young team, and they knew this year was coming (meaning Roy knew he'd be losing Hansbrough and crew).

Between UVa and UNC---which team has the more experience? the HOF coach? the McDonald's HS All-Americas?

It's not the average class age, it's the time spent on the court in game conditions which tempers a team. Add to that Zeller's injury..while UNC has experienced players they're carrying vastly different burdens of responsibility compared to last year. Roy, saw it coming?? ...don't see the relevance of the point you're making or how that changes the quality of team UNC is putting on the floor this year.

With the exception of Henderson, Duke is relying upon the same key players this year as last, the 3 S's with Lance and Zoubs in similar roles as well. You know what UNC lost. It's not an even comparison.

[ncexnyc]

I loved watching this game and made sure I turned on the Holes radio broadcast to catch Ol' Roy's post game comments.

The guy's really scatching his head wondering why the wheels are coming off.
Several times during the Q&A sessions he mentioned how much dumber he's become during the past 6 months.

Love hearing Montross rip their defense as well.

At least this weekend isn't a total loss and I won't have to hear a peep out of the hole fans at work tomorrow.:D

[Newton_14]

It could be a potential 4 game losing streak until the ncsu game. Tough games ahead for them. If they do lose the away games, they could put all their anger on us.

This is true. The thing is, we will not know until that night. This heel team is so inconsistent there is no way of knowing how they will play. Against Mich St they looked like a bonafide top ten team that would contend for the ACC title and a 2 seed in the ncaa's. Since then they have been anywhere from terrible (CoC, UVA) and fairly solid (NCSU), but have not approached the level they played at against Mich St.

Hard to tell what they will look like game to game at this point..

[roywhite]

It's not the average class age, it's the time spent on the court in game conditions which tempers a team. Add to that Zeller's injury..while UNC has experienced players they're carrying vastly different burdens of responsibility compared to last year. Roy, saw it coming?? ...don't see the relevance of the point you're making or how that changes the quality of team UNC is putting on the floor this year.

With the exception of Henderson, Duke is relying upon the same key players this year as last, the 3 S's with Lance and Zoubs in similar roles as well. You know what UNC lost. It's not an even comparison.

If you want to make excuses for UNC, suit yourself. I was comparing UNC with UVa.

Or should I just say....Scoreboard.

[CDu]

This is true. The thing is, we will not know until that night. This heel team is so inconsistent there is no way of knowing how they will play. Against Mich St they looked like a bonafide top ten team that would contend for the ACC title and a 2 seed in the ncaa's. Since then they have been anywhere from terrible (CoC, UVA) and fairly solid (NCSU), but have not approached the level they played at against Mich St.

Hard to tell what they will look like game to game at this point..

Agreed. I will say that we match up very well with UNC this year. Their bigs aren't very dynamic offensively. Davis is very methodical and nearly useless outside of 8 feet, and Thompson is pretty much just a jumpshooter. Neither should really exploit our lack of quickness in the paint. If we can keep UNC's guards from blowing by us, I think they're going to have trouble dominating us inside.

If they do beat us (and they certainly can), UNC is going to have to have great games from their perimeter players and/or dominate the offensive glass. If they're having a great shooting night, they could give us trouble. But I do like the way we match up with them (with the obvious caveats that we need to have our big three healthy and available).

[Wander]

Between UVa and UNC---which team has the more experience? the HOF coach? the McDonald's HS All-Americas?

Errr, as Duke fans, do we really want to even mention this argument?

That said, UNC sucks. I want a sweep with an average margin of victory in the double digits.

[natedog4ever]

It's not the average class age, it's the time spent on the court in game conditions which tempers a team. Add to that Zeller's injury..while UNC has experienced players they're carrying vastly different burdens of responsibility compared to last year. Roy, saw it coming?? ...don't see the relevance of the point you're making or how that changes the quality of team UNC is putting on the floor this year.

With the exception of Henderson, Duke is relying upon the same key players this year as last, the 3 S's with Lance and Zoubs in similar roles as well. You know what UNC lost. It's not an even comparison.

They are not young by today's standard for elite programs. That is just the way things are these days.

Next year Duke could potentially be a team with zero seniors and one junior in Miles Plumlee. Nobody will be cutting Duke any slack.

[weezie]

I want them so bad that for each one I will go to my backyard, burn some of my own wooden furniture, and get fined by the local police.

EXCELLENT! Post of the day. Finally, I'm a little cheered up.

[Coastal Devil]

Gosh I'm soooo biting my tougue until we beat or sweep UNC. My Tarhole buddys have been giving it to me for yrs! It's so nice to hear NOTHING this year...

That said... VA was very impressive tonight. They reminded me of our smaller teams... spreading you out with a kick or drive to the basket. They are going to be a tough out. I'm a Bennett fan already.
Note to our Duke team this year double Davis and Thompson.... make somebody else beat us.

Man the ACC hoops is wide open this year. It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out.

Go Duke!

[roywhite]

Sylvan Landesburg was very impressive. Not sure I've seen a better player in the conference this year. Major props to Tony Bennett for putting together a good team in a short period of time.

[CDu]

Gosh I'm soooo biting my tougue until we beat or sweep UNC. My Tarhole buddys have been giving it to me for yrs! It's so nice to hear NOTHING this year...

That said... VA was very impressive tonight. They reminded me of our smaller teams... spreading you out with a kick or drive to the basket. They are going to be a tough out. I'm a Bennett fan already.
Note to our Duke team this year double Davis and Thompson.... make somebody else beat us.

Man the ACC hoops is wide open this year. It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out.

Go Duke!

Yes, Bennett is a terrific coach. He had a great gameplan tonight, and his players executed that gameplan perfectly.

I was very impressed with their 2 PG approach to the game (though Baker crapped the bed a bit when he was relied upon). That's one of the things I'm excited about with next year's team - being able to go with 3 quicker guards with good ballhandling skills for large stretches of the game. As versatile as Singler is, this team lacks the versatility to have him spending time at the 4 with three good ballhandlers alongside him on the perimeter. At the very least, I want to have the option of going to that lineup when the game dictates it.

[Newton_14]

Yes, Bennett is a terrific coach. He had a great gameplan tonight, and his players executed that gameplan perfectly.

I was very impressed with their 2 PG approach to the game (though Baker crapped the bed a bit when he was relied upon). That's one of the things I'm excited about with next year's team - being able to go with 3 quicker guards with good ballhandling skills for large stretches of the game. As versatile as Singler is, this team lacks the versatility to have him spending time at the 4 with three good ballhandlers alongside him on the perimeter. At the very least, I want to have the option of going to that lineup when the game dictates it.

I only saw the last 8 minutes but it appeared unc tried a little bit of the 1 in 4 out spread the floor offense at times. I know they were way behind and trying to use the 3 to get back into the game, but did they abandon their normal post game offense or did my eyes deceive me a bit when they had the ball??

[devildeac]

This is true. The thing is, we will not know until that night. This heel team is so inconsistent there is no way of knowing how they will play. Against Mich St they looked like a bonafide top ten team that would contend for the ACC title and a 2 seed in the ncaa's. Since then they have been anywhere from terrible (CoC, UVA) and fairly solid (NCSU), but have not approached the level they played at against Mich St.

Hard to tell what they will look like game to game at this point..

I'm pretty much gonna bet on career nights for Davis, Ginyard, Drew2, Strickland, Graves and Thompson when we visit their abode.

[shoutingncu]

...At least this weekend isn't a total loss and I won't have to hear a peep out of the hole fans at work tomorrow.:D

Oh, come on. Any hole fan worth her wine (whine?) will find a way to ignore the facts and talk smack tomorrow... How 'bout, "Yeah, well, at least our Big East loss was to a Top 4 team." :rolleyes:

[shoutingncu]

I'm pretty much gonna bet on career nights for Davis, Ginyard, Drew2, Strickland, Graves and Thompson when we visit their abode.

My hope is that Strickland has his from the starting lineup.

[CameronBlue]

They are not young by today's standard for elite programs. That is just the way things are these days.

Next year Duke could potentially be a team with zero seniors and one junior in Miles Plumlee. Nobody will be cutting Duke any slack.

Agreed, of course not. Not making excuses for UNC, hey, it's about time they resurrected a Tar Heel tradition and hung the Hound in effigy. This is going to sound simplistic I fear, but to pare a lot of complexity about the offiense and the roles to which Scheyer, Smith and Singler are still adapting, down to a single point, Duke's experience was not evident to a sufficient degree against Gtown. Posters who decry that Duke relies too much on the 3 miss the point. The offense is designed to provide options, to create and make plays as the conditions dictate. Experience is a player's edge in that type of scheme. The decision tree has more pathways than Duke is utilizing in other words so too often the players fall into old habits. It's arguable as well whether Duke, with Scheyer at the point, has the athleticism to be successful in this year's version of the motion offense. The alternative is to implement more of a continuity offense, but with K, that's not apt to happen. Additionally with Irving coming on board next year, perhaps K has decided to just roll the dice with the offense this year.

[roywhite]

Oh, come on. Any hole fan worth her wine (whine?) will find a way to ignore the facts and talk smack tomorrow... How 'bout, "Yeah, well, at least our Big East loss was to a Top 4 team." :rolleyes:

Or it seemed weird to have the kids in the seats downstairs; we missed the Rams Club crowd.
And Drew II's hurt finger; don't forget that.

[shoutingncu]

Or it seemed weird to have the kids in the seats downstairs; we missed the Rams Club crowd.
And Drew II's hurt finger; don't forget that.

Yeah, it was way too noisy.

[BlueintheFace]

Looking at the level of effort given by carolina this year, the NCAA tourney is seriously in doubt. No doubt about it at this point. They need 6 of 10 to get to .500 in the conference. If Duke can sweep (knock on wood), that is 6 of 8. WOW.

[Duvall]

Looking at the level of effort given by carolina this year, the NCAA tourney is seriously in doubt. No doubt about it at this point. They need 6 of 10 to get to .500 in the conference. If Duke can sweep (knock on wood), that is 6 of 8. WOW.

It's not just Duke; the Heels still have to play at Maryland, at Wake Forest, at Georgia Tech and at Virginia Tech. The Heels will have to improve a lot just to keep those games competitive.

We shall see.

[BD80]

This loss wasn't ol' roy's fault or his team's.

There was person about 9 rows behind the unc bench with a nasty cough. You could hear it echoing throughout the dean dome, even back in the concourse. You could hear it over the squeak if the shoes.

How could the heels be expected to play in such a hostile and noisy environment?

[flyingdutchdevil]

It's not just Duke; the Heels still have to play at Maryland, at Wake Forest, at Georgia Tech and at Virginia Tech. The Heels will have to improve a lot just to keep those games competitive.

We shall see.

If UNC finishes 7-9 and higher with at least one ACC tourney win, I think they're the last team in the NCAA. It's UNC after all - the name carries a lot of weight. If Duke has a 6 seed in 2006-2007 (when he clearly deserved a worse seeding), then UNC can be a 8-9 seed. If UNC finishes at 6-10, then they are in serious jeopardy.

Interesting question - maybe I'll start a thread with this: would you rather have a team that always makes the tourney and is a frequent Sweet Sixteen team but can't make it much further or a team that wins tourneys more frequently than others but may miss the tourney from time to time (Florida, potentially UNC)?

[CDu]

I only saw the last 8 minutes but it appeared unc tried a little bit of the 1 in 4 out spread the floor offense at times. I know they were way behind and trying to use the 3 to get back into the game, but did they abandon their normal post game offense or did my eyes deceive me a bit when they had the ball??

Yes, UNC did play the last seveal minutes in "small ball," with Graves at the 4. I think this was evidence of them conceding that UVa had completely taken away UNC's post game, and that the Heels needed a bunch of threes to get back in the game. Further, UVa was playing really small, so it wasn't like UNC needed size at the 3 and 4 spots.

They only ran the 4-out, 1-in approach for the last few minutes. For the first 35 minutes or so, they were playing their typical big lineup.

[oldnavy]

Does anybody still think that UNC's frontline is one of the best in the ACC?

I think the performance against UVA should silence all those who think that Henson, Thompson, Davis, Wear(s), et al, should be considered as a top frontline.
They are quite frankly... weak. UVA did a great job of doubling on the block, and they had no answer. Where are all the media that tauted this frontline as one of the best in college basketball. And yes, I know that Zeller is out, but did he really make that much of a difference?

[CDu]

If UNC finishes 7-9 and higher with at least one ACC tourney win, I think they're the last team in the NCAA. It's UNC after all - the name carries a lot of weight. If Duke has a 6 seed in 2006-2007 (when he clearly deserved a worse seeding), then UNC can be a 8-9 seed. If UNC finishes at 6-10, then they are in serious jeopardy.

I think it'll be a very precarious situation if they finish 7-9. They could get in on name only, but that'd require a lot of things going right nationally.


Interesting question - maybe I'll start a thread with this: would you rather have a team that always makes the tourney and is a frequent Sweet Sixteen team but can't make it much further or a team that wins tourneys more frequently than others but may miss the tourney from time to time (Florida, potentially UNC)?

I think this should be an answerable question based on experience for the (relatively) older posters. Did you enjoy 1991-2001 more than 2002-2009?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Does anybody still think that UNC's frontline is one of the best in the ACC?

And yes, I know that Zeller is out, but did he really make that much of a difference?

1) Nope. I'd have to go with GT and Booker (not Clemson, just Booker). All the other frontcourts, including ours, are weak.

2) Zeller does make a difference. He is a mobile 7-footer. Think of Zoubs with better feet. That said, he still wouldn't make the UNC frontcourt a top frountcourt.

It's quite amazing that a great backcourt and poor frountcourt can win the ACC this year. I think it really shows just how weak the conference is this year in comparison with other years

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think this should be an answerable question based on experience for the (relatively) older posters. Did you enjoy 1991-2001 more than 2002-2009?

Wouldn't know about the first - only became a Duke fan when I became a Duke student in 2003 ;). However, I did enjoy 2004 quite a bit. I'm not going to lie...

[CDu]

Does anybody still think that UNC's frontline is one of the best in the ACC?

I think the performance against UVA should silence all those who think that Henson, Thompson, Davis, Wear(s), et al, should be considered as a top frontline.
They are quite frankly... weak. UVA did a great job of doubling on the block, and they had no answer. Where are all the media that tauted this frontline as one of the best in college basketball. And yes, I know that Zeller is out, but did he really make that much of a difference?

I won't use one game to write off Davis and Thompson. UVa had a great gameplan, and UNC wasn't prepared for it.

Do Davis and Thompson have limitations? Sure. But so do all of the other frontcourts in the ACC. I still think they're one of the best frontcourts in the ACC, in spite of the beatdown they received today.

And yes, Zeller makes a big difference. He averaged 10 and 5 off the bench for them, and gave them a versatile offensive big man who could run the floor for buckets as well as provide smooth moves around the basket.

[CDu]

Wouldn't know about the first - only became a Duke fan when I became a Duke student in 2003 ;). However, I did enjoy 2004 quite a bit. I'm not going to lie...

Now imagine having 5 seasons (in an 11-year span) better than that one, with three championships in that span. I definitely take that along with the two years out of the tournament over a perennial Sweet-16 team.

[Misunderestimated]

I'm pretty much gonna bet on career nights for Davis, Ginyard, Drew2, Strickland, Graves and Thompson when we visit their abode.

Agreed. I'm not ready to write this team off yet, despite what we've seen of late.

Can we expect to hear "Miss it Deon" when he's on the line at CIS?

[slower]

That said, UNC sucks. I want a sweep with an average margin of victory in the double digits.

Just because you want it doesn't mean it will happen. It's just as possible that they sweep US with double-digit victory margins. People (not meaning you, Wander) talk smack every game about how we should win by double-digits. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. Nobody KNOWS how any game will turn out. Personally, I'm trying to put a lid on lofty expectations for this year and remaining cautiously optimistic. So, while I don't believe (as some misinformed person suggested) that we have "Mid-Major talent", I also don't view us as a legitimate FF team. Of course, ANYTHING is possible...but I'm not expecting Battier, Boozer or Brand to ride in on unicorns to save the day.

[mickeysgotagun]

Best quote from IC

"Our guards couldn't stop Zoubek from penetrating."

That said, from what I understand UNC has to go .500 in the conference to make it in. Looking doubtful now.

[dairedevil]

"

That said, from what I understand UNC has to go .500 in the conference to make it in. Looking doubtful now.

Or win the ACC tourney, which could happen. Although, hasn't unc always put an emphasis on the regular season instead of the conference tournament?

[BlueDevilCorvette!]

Best quote from IC

"Our guards couldn't stop Zoubek from penetrating."

That said, from what I understand UNC has to go .500 in the conference to make it in. Looking doubtful now.

Now that's hilarious! Nice quote...priceless!

[Wander]

Just because you want it doesn't mean it will happen. It's just as possible that they sweep US with double-digit victory margins. People (not meaning you, Wander) talk smack every game about how we should win by double-digits. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. Nobody KNOWS how any game will turn out. Personally, I'm trying to put a lid on lofty expectations for this year and remaining cautiously optimistic. So, while I don't believe (as some misinformed person suggested) that we have "Mid-Major talent", I also don't view us as a legitimate FF team. Of course, ANYTHING is possible...but I'm not expecting Battier, Boozer or Brand to ride in on unicorns to save the day.

Ha, don't worry, I mostly agree. Honestly I hate to say it but I think a split with Carolina is most likely, followed by a good sweep, followed by a bad sweep. Maybe like 60%/35%/5% in that order (with none of the games being true blowouts)?

[BlueDevilCorvette!]

If UNC finishes 7-9 and higher with at least one ACC tourney win, I think they're the last team in the NCAA. It's UNC after all - the name carries a lot of weight. If Duke has a 6 seed in 2006-2007 (when he clearly deserved a worse seeding), then UNC can be a 8-9 seed. If UNC finishes at 6-10, then they are in serious jeopardy.

Interesting question - maybe I'll start a thread with this: would you rather have a team that always makes the tourney and is a frequent Sweet Sixteen team but can't make it much further or a team that wins tourneys more frequently than others but may miss the tourney from time to time (Florida, potentially UNC)?

You are totally correct in UNC's name carrying a lot of "weight". I can't recall the year it was but it was when UVA had a center with the last name Watson (I think), probably 6 years ago or so...anyway UVA beat UNC twice and had a better overall record and conference record but UNC got the NCAAT bid and UVA was left out. Anyone recall this?

[Matches]

You are totally correct in UNC's name carrying a lot of "weight". I can't recall the year it was but it was when UVA had a center with the last name Watson (I think), probably 6 years ago or so...anyway UVA beat UNC twice and had a better overall record and conference record but UNC got the NCAAT bid and UVA was left out. Anyone recall this?

It was 2000, the year UNC got an 8 seed and went to the FF. IIRC their rpi was significantly higher than UVa's that year, though. (Not a defense of the decision to let them in, which I thought was terrible, but that was the reasoning behind it.)

This year's UNC team doesn't have a strong rpi going for them. They're potentially in a much weaker position this year than they were in 2000.

[roywhite]

The Heels are currently 2-4 in conference.

Their remaining schedule:
2-4 @ VaTech
2-7 @ Maryland
2-10 Duke
2-13 NC State
2-16 @ GaTech
2-20 @ Boston Coll.
2-24 Florida State
2-27 @ Wake
3-2 Miami
3-6 @ Duke

I agree they would likely get a bid at 7-9.

It's a fairly tough schedule. Are there 5 more wins to be had?

[Matches]

They should win @BC and vs. Miami. They should beat State though that's not a given.

Then they'd need to go 2-5 against the other teams. That's do-able, I think.

Not sure 7-9 would be good enough though. That'd leave them with 13 losses overall, 14 assuming they lose an ACC tourney game. 18-14? I'm skeptical.

[CDu]

You are totally correct in UNC's name carrying a lot of "weight". I can't recall the year it was but it was when UVA had a center with the last name Watson (I think), probably 6 years ago or so...anyway UVA beat UNC twice and had a better overall record and conference record but UNC got the NCAAT bid and UVA was left out. Anyone recall this?

It was ten years ago (2000). UVa beat UNC twice but UNC got the bid. That was because UNC had a better overall resume than UVa that year, in spite of the sweep head-to-head. For comparison, UNC ended up with a Pomeroy ranking of #24, while UVa was at #64. Of course, that's a bit skewed by UNC's tournament run (they went to the Final Four that year), but even so they were ahead of UVa at the end of the regular season. Also note that UNC was 9-7 in conference that year (same as UVa).

If UNC finishes 7-9 in conference this year, they won't have the 9-7 in-conference record and they won't have the strong RPI/Pomeroy rankings to support putting them in. They'd really be living on some wins in November/December, and that's not a good way to get into the tournament.

[CDu]

The Heels are currently 2-4 in conference.

Their remaining schedule:
2-4 @ VaTech
2-7 @ Maryland
2-10 Duke
2-13 NC State
2-16 @ GaTech
2-20 @ Boston Coll.
2-24 Florida State
2-27 @ Wake
3-2 Miami
3-6 @ Duke

I agree they would likely get a bid at 7-9.

It's a fairly tough schedule. Are there 5 more wins to be had?

I don't know that 7-9 gets them in this year. Their ratings are weak (currently 59 in Pomeroy and 62 in RPI), and will probably not be much better if they only go .500 the rest of the way. At 7-9 in conference with a mediocre RPI, I don't think they'd get in. I think they're in if they get to 8-8, and they're certainly out at 6-10. Going 7-9 puts them on the scary part of the bubble, and I'd say they're likely out at 7-9.

But even 7-9 isn't a given. They have four very winnable games (@BC, NC State, Miami, FSU), and six very tough games (@GT, @VT, @Wake, @Maryland, @Duke, Duke). If they can win out at home and win @BC, that gets them to 7-9. But that's certainly no guarantee given how they're playing right now.

They have the talent on that roster to still get to 9-7 in conference. But they've got to figure out how to play in order to do that. I think 6-10 and 7-9 are very real possibilities. Pomeroy has them going 5-11, with only two actual projected wins during that stretch. I think that's an underestimate, but it's certainly not THAT big a reach the way they're playing right now.

[CLT Devil]

This might be the year that UNC has to win the Les Robsinson Invitational, aka the Thursday game of the ACC Tourney and three more to make the Dance.

One Tarhole described their season like this..."It's like a dead pet, I am emotionally over it and distanced from it..."

[Duvall]

I don't know that 7-9 gets them in this year. Their ratings are weak (currently 59 in Pomeroy and 62 in RPI), and will probably not be much better if they only go .500 the rest of the way. At 7-9 in conference with a mediocre RPI, I don't think they'd get in. I think they're in if they get to 8-8, and they're certainly out at 6-10. Going 7-9 puts them on the scary part of the bubble, and I'd say they're likely out at 7-9.

But even 7-9 isn't a given. They have four very winnable games (@BC, NC State, Miami, FSU), and six very tough games (@GT, @VT, @Wake, @Maryland, @Duke, Duke). If they can win out at home and win @BC, that gets them to 7-9. But that's certainly no guarantee given how they're playing right now.

I'm not even sure I would call FSU a very winnable game for them - if UNC's post players were barely able to scratch against Virginia's frontcourt, what will they be able to do against FSU? Easier than their remaining road games, though.

[sagegrouse]

You just never know, and you have to watch the games to find out.

If the Heels play like they did in January, they could end up with only 5-6 conference wins.

If they play like they are capable, they could win almost all of their remaining games.

The Heels still have a lot of talent. Two uncontrollable factors seem to be the absence of Zeller (he isn't returning for awhile) and the poor play of Ginyard, who apparently hasn't recovered enough from his foot injury to be effective.

In any case, the Heels certainly have enough talent to be an excellent defensive team, which will win a lot of games on their schedule. That requires effort, concentration, and, I suppose, coaching (but I won't go there).;):rolleyes:

On the offensive end, they need some outside shooting, guards that can penetrate a bit and feed the bigs, and production from Davis and Thompson.

sagegrouse

[CDu]

I'm not even sure I would call FSU a very winnable game for them - if UNC's post players were barely able to scratch against Virginia's frontcourt, what will they be able to do against FSU? Easier than their remaining road games, though.

True, although FSU won't be able to dominate the perimeter the way UVa did. Their backcourt can be very loose with the basketball. But at least it is a home game for UNC. If it was a road game, I'd toss FSU in there with VT and Wake as games that UNC will have a lot of trouble winning. I can certainly see FSU beating UNC at Chapel Hill, but I think I still give the edge to UNC there at home.

[roywhite]

True, although FSU won't be able to dominate the perimeter the way UVa did. Their backcourt can be very loose with the basketball. see FSU beating UNC at Chapel Hill, but I think I still give the edge to UBut at least it is a home game for UNC. If it was a road game, I'd toss FSU in there with VT and Wake as games that UNC will have a lot of trouble winning. I can certainly NC there at home.

The Heels have 3 conference losses at home already; two of them (Wake and UVa were not close) and one featured a big lead by GaTech that UNC overcame and then lost in the last minute.

So the Nose Dome seems to be of little advantage so far.

[Newton_14]

Tim Brando was a guest on the Adam Gold show this morning and gave his take on the heels, last nights game, and the state of the ACC. Interesting take.

He thinks unc has some ego issues, among other things, and wonders out loud how much their kids "care"...

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc/audio/6937386/

[roywhite]

Tim Brando was a guest on the Adam Gold show this morning and gave his take on the heels, last nights game, and the state of the ACC. Interesting take.

He thinks unc has some ego issues, among other things, and wonders out loud how much their kids "care"...

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc/audio/6937386/

Thanks for posting.

That's a pretty tough assessment of Roy Williams and his players, but they've earned it so far.

Interesting comments about Duke; not glowing accounts of our talent level, but favorable view of our motivation and leadership.

[camion]

One thing I noticed last night was that for a good part of the game it was like the fellow below was hunting wabbits.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/Elmer_Fudd.png

The fans were vewy, vewy quiet.

[Cockabeau]

Experienced teams win championships and make their coaches look like geniuses, inexperienced teams loose by 20 and make their coaches look like schmucks see, UNC 2009 vs UNC 2010.

Which is what I find most disturbing about yesterday's Gtown blowout, this year Duke is the experienced team.

The difference is talent. Last years UNC had ALOT more talent. You can have all the experience in the world but if you don't have the horses...

[airowe]

The Heels are currently 2-4 in conference.

Their remaining schedule:
2-4 @ VaTech
2-7 @ Maryland
2-10 Duke
2-13 NC State
2-16 @ GaTech
2-20 @ Boston Coll.
2-24 Florida State
2-27 @ Wake
3-2 Miami
3-6 @ Duke

I agree they would likely get a bid at 7-9.

It's a fairly tough schedule. Are there 5 more wins to be had?

Poetically, I think their game in Cameron may make or break their tournament chances (not factoring in the ACCT.). It would be a beautiful thing if we can keep them away from their TVs on Selection Sunday. (Wouldn't it be nice if they were sitting in their locker room waiting for their placement in the bracket and see the last 12 seed go to UVA or CofC? I'd love to see the faces of those guys when they get relegated to the NIT.)

[CDu]

The Heels have 3 conference losses at home already; two of them (Wake and UVa were not close) and one featured a big lead by GaTech that UNC overcame and then lost in the last minute.

So the Nose Dome seems to be of little advantage so far.

By comparison, they're 2-5 away from home (including a bad loss to Charleston). So as bad as things have been for them at home lately, they've been arguably worse away from home.

I didn't say it was a huge advantage for them to be at home. But I do think it's still better for them to play FSU at home compared to at FSU (which is a notoriously tough place to play. Hence, it's an advantage for UNC that the game is at home.

[ncexnyc]

WOW, interesting to see Seth Greenberg and his Hokies getting so much love on this board. Interesting to see so many board members picking the holes to drop their game at VT. Whatever happened to the claim that Seth can't coach?

I would think that the games we lost at NCSU and G'Town would have taught some of you a bit of humility, but it appears that isn't so. Our squad aren't exactly the Road Warriors, so the game at the Nose Dome isn't a gimmie.

I still believe that the heels have one of the top frontcourts in the country. I realize they haven't shown it, but they've had injuries and they've had issues at the PG position. I've seen many a poster, after our own poor games discuss how we never get the ball into our post players to keep defenses honest, let alone for scoring attempts. I don't see how we can dismiss UNC's frontcourt for the same problems we face.

Let's play out the season and let the cards fall where they may. Enough of these self centered predictions.

[gumbomoop]

Does Tim Brando know what he's talking about? [See Boozer's post #78 for link.] If yes, wow, the Heels are a collective head case, starting [but hardly ending] with Ginyard, whom Brando suggests is not a gamer. Indeed, having questioned Ginyard's toughness in several comments, he adds a zinger later by noting that Ed Davis is "actually" hurting [unlike, Brando clearly implies, Ginyard].

I'm wondering whether Ginyard's mood is just dismal, owing to the fact that he missed last year's NC, and his buddies have departed in glory, and his foot won't heal, and, and....... Even if his mood's not way down, his D certainly is [and here was I, thinking in preseason he was logical CDPOY].

Amazed at all this, I nevertheless subscribe to sagegrouse's comment [post #75] that the Heels could still wind up virtually anywhere in the ACC. That that may be taken as an optimistic statement about this year's Heels is itself amazing.

[MChambers]

Let's play out the season and let the cards fall where they may. Enough of these self centered predictions.

If not for self centered predictions, what would we all do?

[Duvall]

WOW, interesting to see Seth Greenberg and his Hokies getting so much love on this board. Interesting to see so many board members picking the holes to drop their game at VT. Whatever happened to the claim that Seth can't coach?

Got trumped by watching the Heels get rolled by a team that just dropped a home game against VPI. Virginia Tech will be at home and has played a lot better than UNC this year.


I would think that the games we lost at NCSU and G'Town would have taught some of you a bit of humility, but it appears that isn't so. Our squad aren't exactly the Road Warriors, so the game at the Nose Dome isn't a gimmie.


In fairness, most of Duke's road losses have come against teams that are much, much better than North Carolina. Much.

[sagegrouse]

Does Tim Brando know what he's talking about? [See Boozer's post #78 for link.] If yes, wow, the Heels are a collective head case, starting [but hardly ending] with Ginyard, whom Brando suggests is not a gamer. Indeed, having questioned Ginyard's toughness in several comments, he adds a zinger later by noting that Ed Davis is "actually" hurting [unlike, Brando clearly implies, Ginyard].

I'm wondering whether Ginyard's mood is just dismal, owing to the fact that he missed last year's NC, and his buddies have departed in glory, and his foot won't heal, and, and....... Even if his mood's not way down, his D certainly is [and here was I, thinking in preseason he was logical CDPOY].

Amazed at all this, I nevertheless subscribe to Sagegrouse's comment in recent post that the Heels could still wind up virtually anywhere in the ACC. That that may be taken as an optimistic statement about this year's Heels is itself amazing.

What I got out of Tim Brando's comment was his belief that each player in light blue thought he was a top 50 player in college basketball, but that, in truth, none of them could carry Sylvan Landesburg's jock strap -- or, at least, they couldn't last night. So it is the combination of a bit of talent deficiency and a bunch of head cases that is sinking the Heels.

Boy, he laid it out there. Usually announcers have a way of saying everything positively -- I got a lot of respect for Brando out of that interview.

I didn't think he was riding Ginyard and his injuries as hard as some other readers did. People really have different tolerances for pain. (E.g., the Sage Grouse is considering anesthesia the morning of his next dental appointment and then an ambulance to the dentist's office, so he is never conscious, not even in the waiting room.)

sagegrouse

[InSpades]

I would agree with whoever said UNC is inexperienced (that happens when you lose 4 starters and more off of a team) but what they aren't is young. They also aren't all that talented. It's looking more and more like Harrison Barnes was a "must-get" for UNC and not Duke. If Ed Davis goes pro after this year then they could conceivably be worse next year (losing 3 starters off an already bad team). Their freshmen better be ready to play.

[JStuart]

is [and here was I, thinking in preseason he was logical CDPOY].



Or, rather the NC sportswriters' logical CDPOY...

Watch that someone from UNC will be on the all-star team. The sportswriters can't help themselves, even if Frank Dascenzo has retired!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I listened to that Brando interview and I tended to agree with everything he said.

UNC's problems are between their ears. No sense in sugar coating it. The talent is there to win, and Ginyard physically looks fine to me. Roy is taking the blame, as he should, but the players have to step up and play. I will be shocked if Strickland does not start at the 2 next game. Let Ginyard come off the bench. I'd sit Davis too and start Travis Wear. Get his attention, injury did not cause him to look lost in a double team time after time.

And even tho Duke has struggled, nobody I know questions Duke's effort, Duke does have more mental toughness than the Heels have shown.

How can a team at this level not give Max effort when their backs are against the wall? That's what's so puzzling to me, and seems to be killing Roy.

If the effort was there and the losses mount, then so be it. But lack of effort is inexcusable.

We are not in the locker room, so I have no idea where the issues begin, but there are issues.

[hudlow]

Somewhere Matt Doherty is thinking to himself...."I coulda done that."

;)

hufd

[striker219]

If the coaching thing doesn't work out Ol' Roy could probably make it as a whaaaambulance driver, he's really bringing it here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4876609

[Newton_14]

If the coaching thing doesn't work out Ol' Roy could probably make it as a whaaaambulance driver, he's really bringing it here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4876609

He also went 3rd Person again with that last quote. Classic roy..

"Ol' Roy's been awfully lucky in his entire life and things have been very smooth, but right now they're not," Williams said, according to the Winston-Salem Journal. "I've got to do a better job with my team than what I'm doing right now."

[Coballs]

3rd Person Huck, you beat me to it. A Roy Williams whine-fest is never complete without an "Ol' Roy". However, there was no use of "dadgum" or references to his backwoods upbringing this time.....disappointing.

[oldnavy]

WOW, interesting to see Seth Greenberg and his Hokies getting so much love on this board. Interesting to see so many board members picking the holes to drop their game at VT. Whatever happened to the claim that Seth can't coach?
I would think that the games we lost at NCSU and G'Town would have taught some of you a bit of humility, but it appears that isn't so. Our squad aren't exactly the Road Warriors, so the game at the Nose Dome isn't a gimmie.

I still believe that the heels have one of the top frontcourts in the country. I realize they haven't shown it, but they've had injuries and they've had issues at the PG position. I've seen many a poster, after our own poor games discuss how we never get the ball into our post players to keep defenses honest, let alone for scoring attempts. I don't see how we can dismiss UNC's frontcourt for the same problems we face.

Let's play out the season and let the cards fall where they may. Enough of these self centered predictions.

Well Ol Roy can't coach either, and he is on a bigger stage. The post game interview was almost sad, until I realized that it was UNC and "Ol Roy" up there, then I was happy again.

When are people going to wake up and realize that UNC's front court is average at best. They are not even one of the best frontcourts in the ACC, heck the even in the state! Would you trade MP1 and MP2, LT, and Zoubek for Davis, Thompson and Henson and a Wear? I wouldn't. How about WF's frontline, would you trade Aminu, Woods, McFarland and Williams for UNC's bigs?

UNC bigs have yet to show that can as a collective can dominate a game or as individuals influence or change a game. Look at the box score from last nights game for example. UVA is a good team, but nobody would claim they have a great frontcourt, yet they totally shut down UNC's bigs.

Here we are into Feb, UNC is sitting near the bottom of the ACC, and people still want to claim that they have one of the best front courts in the nation. I am not seeing what these folks are seeing...

[VAGentleman05]

You are totally correct in UNC's name carrying a lot of "weight". I can't recall the year it was but it was when UVA had a center with the last name Watson (I think), probably 6 years ago or so...anyway UVA beat UNC twice and had a better overall record and conference record but UNC got the NCAAT bid and UVA was left out. Anyone recall this?

1999-2000. It still hurts.

[CDu]

Well Ol Roy can't coach either, and he is on a bigger stage. The post game interview was almost sad, until I realized that it was UNC and "Ol Roy" up there, then I was happy again.

When are people going to wake up and realize that UNC's front court is average at best. They are not even one of the best frontcourts in the ACC, heck the even in the state! Would you trade MP1 and MP2, LT, and Zoubek for Davis, Thompson and Henson and a Wear? I wouldn't. How about WF's frontline, would you trade Aminu, Woods, McFarland and Williams for UNC's bigs?

UNC bigs have yet to show that can as a collective can dominate a game or as individuals influence or change a game. Look at the box score from last nights game for example. UVA is a good team, but nobody would claim they have a great frontcourt, yet they totally shut down UNC's bigs.

Here we are into Feb, UNC is sitting near the bottom of the ACC, and people still want to claim that they have one of the best front courts in the nation. I am not seeing what these folks are seeing...

You greatly overstate the deficiencies of their frontcourt. Yes, their frontcourt had a bad night. But so did their backcourt. And even on a bad night, their frontcourt outproduced many ACC frontcourt. Their frontcourt is still averaging more points and about as many rebounds as any frontcourt in the ACC. They are on the short list of best frontcourts in the ACC. Their frontcourt is not "average at best."

Does their frontcourt have limitations? Sure. But so does every frontcourt in the ACC. Again, the biggest problem for Carolina is their perimeter play - not their frontcourt. The inconsistency from Drew and Strickland, the lack of ability from Ginyard, and the lack of readiness from McDonald are the reason this team is so up and down.

UNC is asking their 4/5s to absolutely carry them, moreso than just about any other team in the ACC. Only GT and FSU are close to as reliant on their frontcourt to carry the load. But the problem is that college basketball is a guard-driven game. It's really hard to win if you don't have consistently solid guard play. And right now, UNC isn't getting consistently solid guard play.

[Wander]

Would you trade MP1 and MP2, LT, and Zoubek for Davis, Thompson and Henson and a Wear? I wouldn't.

Would I trade? No, of course not, because Thompson and Davis are gone after this year and we still have a few more years of Plumlees. Plus, they play for UNC, and thus are completely evil, etc.

But make no mistake. In the 2009-2010 season, a starting 4 and 5 of Thompson and Davis would put us up there with Kansas and Kentucky as the favorites for the national title.

[CDu]

Would I trade? No, of course not, because Thompson and Davis are gone after this year and we still have a few more years of Plumlees. Plus, they play for UNC, and thus are completely evil, etc.

But make no mistake. In the 2009-2010 season, a starting 4 and 5 of Thompson and Davis would put us up there with Kansas and Kentucky as the favorites for the national title.

Agreed. Long-term, I think the Plumlees will be better than a half season of Thompson and Davis. But right now, Thompson and Davis are arguably the top two of that list. The only guy who can compete is Thomas, and that's only if you really need defense.

And an added note, the argument that UNC has the best frontcourt somewhat depends on Zeller. Without Zeller, they're anywhere from the 2nd to 4th best frontcourt, because the Wears aren't that good yet. With Zeller, they have both solid top-end players and depth.

[roywhite]

Agreed. Long-term, I think the Plumlees will be better than a half season of Thompson and Davis. But right now, Thompson and Davis are arguably the top two of that list. The only guy who can compete is Thomas, and that's only if you really need defense.

And an added note, the argument that UNC has the best frontcourt somewhat depends on Zeller. Without Zeller, they're anywhere from the 2nd to 4th best frontcourt, because the Wears aren't that good yet. With Zeller, they have both solid top-end players and depth.

Agree about Zeller. He's a good player, and his absence hurts the Tarheel team. He also seems to have a solid attitude, very business-like. Whatever chemistry problems exist on the team probably have little to do with him.

It's also notable that Henson is scarcely mentioned any longer; he was thought to be one of the most promising newcomers in the league, and hasn't panned out yet. Can't seem to find a role.

[airowe]

Wow.

http://www.thetimesnews.com/articles/tar-31439-hill-align.html


With the Tar Heels trailing 68-50 with 2:53 left, while waiting to inbound the ball from the sideline, North Carolina’s William Graves high-fived a cheerleader after the two shared a momentary laugh.