Ashamed and Embarrassed

[bluesin]

So I logged onto DBR at halftime to see what people were saying about half court adjustments, defense, how they thought the team would respond and what they thought our options were. You know, analysis. And I got some. Apparently, at halftime of a late January game the analysis that people thought was befitting Duke fans in general and the finest Duke basketball board on the internet was that this team was (and I'm quoting/paraphrasing from memory, because I have NO desire to ever read that kind of trite, uninformed, DISGUSTING drivel again):
1) a sweet 16 team at best
2) as bad as the last 7 years worth of teams (which in case you're forgetting included a round of 8 that could have easily been a final 4)
3) incapable of competing against "elite" teams
4) overrated
5) lacking leadership and passion
6) embarassing themselves and us

I am ASHAMED and EMBARRASSED to be associated with some of the people who would write things like that. I'm a Duke fan for life, I'll root for this team and every other team until the day I die, and while I may be disappointed with the effort on a given night or the result, I promise I will NEVER throw our team, our player, or our coaches under the bus or write off their chances to do well like I saw done on this board today.

Be upset if you want, but don't forget that no matter how badly you want to win, these players, these coaches, this team wants to win more and they are MORE ashamed of how they played than you could ever be. Be mad if you want, but don't forget these are 18-22 year old kids, playing for us and for the school. So no matter what you feel when Duke loses, they feel worse, they feel like they let people down; let their teammates, the school, the alumni, their friends all down. They didn't let me down, even if I am not satisfied with the effort and the result. And whether you want to admit it or not they didn't let you down either. And it's my job to let them know that I'm still behind them. I'm upset they lost, but they are good kids, and I know they tried, I know they fought, I know they didn't lose on purpose. I also know they have talent and leadership and everything it takes to be a good team.

I am deeply ashamed that I am associated as a Duke fan with some of the other people who posted things here today. But I am NOT ashamed of those men who put on the blue and white and play for us.

Do what you want with this post, delete it, flame it, flame me I don't really care, just please don't ignore it. In fact I hope you do flame and rant and rave at me here if it makes you feel better, and if it keeps someone from saying something hurtful or counterproductive about this Duke team then I'll be glad to take the heat. I'll do my part for them, as a fan, I'll cheer for them, I'll take abuse, I'm willing to do that, even if I'm upset at how the game turned out or how people played. Because being upset doesn't mean that I have to be rash, or hurtful, or spiteful, or take my anger out on the team.

I realize some people said things they didn't mean, and I don't intend to call anyone out or make specific statements about people. If you said it and you didn't mean it, then I hope this post makes you think, I know people do things they regret later (I'll probably regret writing this post later :p) and I am proud to be associated with almost everyone on this board, this isn't a general calling out so much as it is a plea to think before you type, analyze instead of reacting, remember that you're a representative of the university and all fans of Duke when you speak. And please, remember players, recruits, their families and many others associated with the program read this board from time to time. If you wouldn't say it to their face, and attach your name to it in the real world then don't say it here, I beg you. All it does is make you feel better in the short term, and it doesn't help anyone else.

I was angry when I started typing, now I'm just profoundly sad. I'm not happy we lost, but I am happy I'm a Dukie, and that those guys chose to play for Duke, and I know they'll play the best they can next time out. Next Play, and Go Duke!

[cbfx3]

My bad... I thought this thread was about the performance of the team in DC.


moving along now

[Newton_14]

So I logged onto DBR at halftime to see what people were saying about half court adjustments, defense, how they thought the team would respond and what they thought our options were. You know, analysis. And I got some. Apparently, at halftime of a late January game the analysis that people thought was befitting Duke fans in general and the finest Duke basketball board on the internet was that this team was (and I'm quoting/paraphrasing from memory, because I have NO desire to ever read that kind of trite, uninformed, DISGUSTING drivel again):
1) a sweet 16 team at best
2) as bad as the last 7 years worth of teams (which in case you're forgetting included a round of 8 that could have easily been a final 4)
3) incapable of competing against "elite" teams
4) overrated
5) lacking leadership and passion
6) embarassing themselves and us

I am ASHAMED and EMBARRASSED to be associated with some of the people who would write things like that. I'm a Duke fan for life, I'll root for this team and every other team until the day I die, and while I may be disappointed with the effort on a given night or the result, I promise I will NEVER throw our team, our player, or our coaches under the bus or write off their chances to do well like I saw done on this board today.

Be upset if you want, but don't forget that no matter how badly you want to win, these players, these coaches, this team wants to win more and they are MORE ashamed of how they played than you could ever be. Be mad if you want, but don't forget these are 18-22 year old kids, playing for us and for the school. So no matter what you feel when Duke loses, they feel worse, they feel like they let people down; let their teammates, the school, the alumni, their friends all down. They didn't let me down, even if I am not satisfied with the effort and the result. And whether you want to admit it or not they didn't let you down either. And it's my job to let them know that I'm still behind them. I'm upset they lost, but they are good kids, and I know they tried, I know they fought, I know they didn't lose on purpose. I also know they have talent and leadership and everything it takes to be a good team.

I am deeply ashamed that I am associated as a Duke fan with some of the other people who posted things here today. But I am NOT ashamed of those men who put on the blue and white and play for us.

Do what you want with this post, delete it, flame it, flame me I don't really care, just please don't ignore it. In fact I hope you do flame and rant and rave at me here if it makes you feel better, and if it keeps someone from saying something hurtful or counterproductive about this Duke team then I'll be glad to take the heat. I'll do my part for them, as a fan, I'll cheer for them, I'll take abuse, I'm willing to do that, even if I'm upset at how the game turned out or how people played. Because being upset doesn't mean that I have to be rash, or hurtful, or spiteful, or take my anger out on the team.

I realize some people said things they didn't mean, and I don't intend to call anyone out or make specific statements about people. If you said it and you didn't mean it, then I hope this post makes you think, I know people do things they regret later (I'll probably regret writing this post later :p) and I am proud to be associated with almost everyone on this board, this isn't a general calling out so much as it is a plea to think before you type, analyze instead of reacting, remember that you're a representative of the university and all fans of Duke when you speak. And please, remember players, recruits, their families and many others associated with the program read this board from time to time. If you wouldn't say it to their face, and attach your name to it in the real world then don't say it here, I beg you. All it does is make you feel better in the short term, and it doesn't help anyone else.

I was angry when I started typing, now I'm just profoundly sad. I'm not happy we lost, but I am happy I'm a Dukie, and that those guys chose to play for Duke, and I know they'll play the best they can next time out. Next Play, and Go Duke!

Post Of The Day..well said.

Hats off to Georgetown for playing their best game in years.

Next Play

[rotogod00]

i'm as big a duke fan as the next guy and i agree with most of what you say. i root for them as much when they're losing than when they're winning. but, unfortunately, 1), 2), 3), and 5) are the truth. 4)'s only true if you really thought this was a championship level team. me, this is what i thought they'd be.....a good team, but not a great team. not a team that could win it all. and a 4 or 5 seed in the Tournament at best.

[Dukefan4Life]

you know something? im pretty tired of people telling fellow fans we cant make a comment about the team we love! i am a duke fan to the grave but when i see something i know is wrong i or anyone else should have the right to say something! plain and simple we arent showing up every game! IMO we arent doing the things we need to do to return to our glory! we are doing the same offense every year for aslong as i can rememeber! i am tired of seeing us shoot 3 after 3 with no hint of an inside game! i am tired of seeing Z playing man to man when he no business doing so! use his height in a zone defense!!!!!!! it just makes sense! we made no adjustments at the half..we just arent playing duke basketball right now!

[cbfx3]

Post Of The Day..well said.

Hats off to Georgetown for playing their best game in years.

Next Play


So did NCSU, and Wisconsin. Cant understand how we smother teams some days and other days they shoot record setting %. The hoyas missed something like 11 shots the whole game?? Same for State

[Cameron]

Are you done?

Thanks.

Look, we're all prideful that our team is Duke. But we have gotten drop kicked twice in four games. Many of the criticisms being presented here today are founded.

[gotham devil]

So did NCSU, and Wisconsin. Cant understand how we smother teams some days and other days they shoot record setting %. The hoyas missed something like 11 shots the whole game?? Same for State

Their offenses are dependent upon timing, spacing, and overplaying m-t-m defenses. Against the (relatively) vanilla offenses, our man defense has been relatively effective.

[bluesin]

I'm willing to criticize, in fact if there weren't any criticism this would be a pretty boring place. But there is a difference between, "man we really sucked on defense and we should have rotated on help more" and "we have mid-major talent" one of those IS a founded criticism, the other is just plain being mean and unfounded. No one that's posted here has really said anything that matches what I saw at halftime, not even close. Be prideful, but be respectful and analytical, that's all I'm asking and I really don't think it's too much, all of you guys so far seem to have it down pat in this thread anyway.

[dbd4ever]

Good stuff in this entire post!! And yes some criticisms are warranted and need to be pointed out.
But for people to say that our kids are mid major talent, we can't play with the "big teams" is ridiculous and not founded by one game. Not to mention all of the "at best" scenarios for these kids. Teams, players, and coaches make adjustments during the year and that's why they play the games. If all of the "at best" assumptions were right, then why even have a seaon. We could just get together and have an elimination debate and the team everyone THOUGHT was the best would be the winner.

NEXT PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!! GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!

[rotogod00]

Good stuff in this entire post!! And yes some criticisms are warranted and need to be pointed out.
But for people to say that our kids are mid major talent, we can't play with the "big teams" is ridiculous and not founded by one game. Not to mention all of the "at best" scenarios for these kids. Teams, players, and coaches make adjustments during the year and that's why they play the games. If all of the "at best" assumptions were right, then why even have a seaon. We could just get together and have an elimination debate and the team everyone THOUGHT was the best would be the winner.

NEXT PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!! GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!

unfortunately, not just one game

[Cameron]

Who here is saying that our kids our Mid Major talent? I've read that nowhere. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I highly doubt that any reasonable fan believes Kyle Singler to be WAC talent. I mean actually believe it.

[CameronDuke]

So I logged onto DBR at halftime to see what people were saying about half court adjustments, defense, how they thought the team would respond and what they thought our options were. You know, analysis. And I got some. Apparently, at halftime of a late January game the analysis that people thought was befitting Duke fans in general and the finest Duke basketball board on the internet was that this team was (and I'm quoting/paraphrasing from memory, because I have NO desire to ever read that kind of trite, uninformed, DISGUSTING drivel again):
1) a sweet 16 team at best
2) as bad as the last 7 years worth of teams (which in case you're forgetting included a round of 8 that could have easily been a final 4)
3) incapable of competing against "elite" teams
4) overrated
5) lacking leadership and passion
6) embarassing themselves and us

I am ASHAMED and EMBARRASSED to be associated with some of the people who would write things like that. I'm a Duke fan for life, I'll root for this team and every other team until the day I die, and while I may be disappointed with the effort on a given night or the result, I promise I will NEVER throw our team, our player, or our coaches under the bus or write off their chances to do well like I saw done on this board today.

Be upset if you want, but don't forget that no matter how badly you want to win, these players, these coaches, this team wants to win more and they are MORE ashamed of how they played than you could ever be. Be mad if you want, but don't forget these are 18-22 year old kids, playing for us and for the school. So no matter what you feel when Duke loses, they feel worse, they feel like they let people down; let their teammates, the school, the alumni, their friends all down. They didn't let me down, even if I am not satisfied with the effort and the result. And whether you want to admit it or not they didn't let you down either. And it's my job to let them know that I'm still behind them. I'm upset they lost, but they are good kids, and I know they tried, I know they fought, I know they didn't lose on purpose. I also know they have talent and leadership and everything it takes to be a good team.

I am deeply ashamed that I am associated as a Duke fan with some of the other people who posted things here today. But I am NOT ashamed of those men who put on the blue and white and play for us.

Do what you want with this post, delete it, flame it, flame me I don't really care, just please don't ignore it. In fact I hope you do flame and rant and rave at me here if it makes you feel better, and if it keeps someone from saying something hurtful or counterproductive about this Duke team then I'll be glad to take the heat. I'll do my part for them, as a fan, I'll cheer for them, I'll take abuse, I'm willing to do that, even if I'm upset at how the game turned out or how people played. Because being upset doesn't mean that I have to be rash, or hurtful, or spiteful, or take my anger out on the team.

I realize some people said things they didn't mean, and I don't intend to call anyone out or make specific statements about people. If you said it and you didn't mean it, then I hope this post makes you think, I know people do things they regret later (I'll probably regret writing this post later :p) and I am proud to be associated with almost everyone on this board, this isn't a general calling out so much as it is a plea to think before you type, analyze instead of reacting, remember that you're a representative of the university and all fans of Duke when you speak. And please, remember players, recruits, their families and many others associated with the program read this board from time to time. If you wouldn't say it to their face, and attach your name to it in the real world then don't say it here, I beg you. All it does is make you feel better in the short term, and it doesn't help anyone else.

I was angry when I started typing, now I'm just profoundly sad. I'm not happy we lost, but I am happy I'm a Dukie, and that those guys chose to play for Duke, and I know they'll play the best they can next time out. Next Play, and Go Duke!

In theory, I guess you may think it's cool to be a hero after one of these types of Duke losses to try and boost morale, be the "fan of the day", appear like you're behind the team more than anyone else, etc...

BUT

That was one of the worst defensive performances I have seen Duke display since I have started watching them. When a team shoots 72% on your defense, that's unheard of. I don't know the last time any college basketball team shot that high of a percentage. Layup after backdoor layup after backdoor dunk after breakaway layup after runout dunk after layup was made on Duke today. That's poor. There is no excuse in that. I have seen high school kids have more of a clue on defense than Duke showed today. It worries me more that this is the second time this season where a team has virtually shredded our interior defense. NC State absolutley demolished Duke inside for easy baskets and Georgetown might as well have been playing 5 on none out there today because NO ONE stepped in their way or remotely tried to stop them on layups and dunks. It was very frustrating and disheartening to watch Duke's uninspired defense today. I can deal with losing a close game that we played hard in, but Duke didn't put forth anywhere close to the kind of effort they needed on defense. Call me what you want, but I don't know how long you have watched college basketball, but when a team shoots 72% on you, it is rare. And when it does happen, your manhood and intestinal fortitude needs to be seriously questioned. Especially when the shots that are being made are uncontested layups and backdoor cuts TIME AND TIME AGAIN. I'll say it, this team is going to be in for a rude awakening if they expect to win ANY games in the NCAA Tournament this season putting forth the kind of effort they demonstrated on the defensive end today.

[bluesin]

Cameron, It was in the in-game thread I believe, I'm sure they don't really believe it either, and I'm not going looking for it again (my bet though, is that it's been deleted). My point was exactly that, it's stupid, hurtful and unfounded to suggest such a thing, that's not analysis, it's just taking out your frustration. You said any reasonable fan, my plea was one to be reasonable even if you're going to be negative. And I KNOW there is a lot to be negative about after this game.

[CameronBornAndBred]

That game was embarrasing. Duke is better than they played and they should be ashamed. I have no problem thinking those thoughts.

[bluesin]

In theory, I guess you may think it's cool to be a hero after one of these types of Duke losses to try and boost morale, be the "fan of the day", appear like you're behind the team more than anyone else, etc...

BUT

That was one of the worst defensive performances I have seen Duke display since I have started watching them. When a team shoots 72% on your defense, that's unheard of. I don't know the last time any college basketball team shot that high of a percentage. Layup after backdoor layup after backdoor dunk after breakaway layup after runout dunk after layup was made on Duke today. That's poor. There is no excuse in that. I have seen high school kids have more of a clue on defense than Duke showed today. It worries me more that this is the second time this season where a team has virtually shredded our interior defense. NC State absolutley demolished Duke inside for easy baskets and Georgetown might as well have been playing 5 on none out there today because NO ONE stepped in their way or remotely tried to stop them on layups and dunks. It was very frustrating and disheartening to watch Duke's uninspired defense today. I can deal with losing a close game that we played hard in, but Duke didn't put forth anywhere close to the kind of effort they needed on defense. Call me what you want, but I don't know how long you have watched college basketball, but when a team shoots 72% on you, it is rare. And when it does happen, your manhood and intestinal fortitude needs to be seriously questioned. Especially when the shots that are being made are uncontested layups and backdoor cuts TIME AND TIME AGAIN. I'll say it, this team is going to be in for a rude awakening if they expect to win ANY games in the NCAA Tournament this season putting forth the kind of effort they demonstrated on the defensive end today.


I'm not more behind the team than anyone, I know lots of people behind the team, you yourself seem to be behind the team. Yeah, if they put in the kind of performance they put in today they'd be lucky to win a game the rest of the season, let along the tournament. 72% is abysmal, it's depressing, and so is our interior defense against that style of play (though I will admit, I don't think it's a style of play duke has excelled in defending in general over the last few years, though I'd have to actually look for numbers and re-watch some games to back it up with solid proof). They do need a gut-check, and they played like crap today. I think you're confusing saying that with some of the things I was referring to. The guys need to play better, smarter, faster, with more poise and composure than they did today. But I don't question that they will put the effort in, and that these are mistakes that can be corrected.

[ArtVandelay]

Who here is saying that our kids our Mid Major talent? I've read that nowhere. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I highly doubt that any reasonable fan believes Kyle Singler to be WAC talent. I mean actually believe it.

Yeah, someone did say that. Same person also said that we have zero NBA players on our team. Another poster said that he or she cannot wait to see Scheyer and Singler go.

I think these are the types of comments that were being referred to. If you don't like the players on the team, then don't watch the games and certainly don't vent your frustrations by saying mean-spirited things like that around here.

[bluesin]

That game was embarrasing. Duke is better than they played and they should be ashamed. I have no problem thinking those thoughts.

I don't have a problem with you thinking that either, shoot I THOUGHT lots of things during this game I wouldn't ever say. I made the effort to not say them because I knew they were hurtful, untrue and based on MY emotional state. It's the fact that some people TYPED them out, which takes even longer than thinking or speaking, no matter how fast a typist you are :P

This game was embarrassing. All I am trying to say is don't cross the line between saying it's embarrassing and lashing out because you're upset at being embarrassed.

[bluesin]

Yeah, someone did say that. Same person also said that we have zero NBA players on our team. Another poster said that he or she cannot wait to see Scheyer and Singler go.

I think these are the types of comments that were being referred to. If you don't like the players on the team, then don't watch the games and certainly don't vent your frustrations by saying mean-spirited things like that around here.

Those are EXACTLY the kinds of things said that I was referring to. You've hit on it perfectly, thank you.

[roywhite]

I agree with the original poster here about the tone of criticism from the in-game comments. Disgraceful, IMO.

For those that disagree, I hope you have read some of the threads referred to. It was pretty bad, vicious even.

There's a certain tone from some posters here that is somewhere between pessimistic and just plain mean. It's not my idea of the commentary expected from a Duke fan. In fact, I wonder if there aren't some rival fans in the mix.

[RoyalBlue08]

bluesin, I read some of the same things in the in game thread and had the same reaction as you did. Obviously Duke played their worst game of the season today, but to lash out at our kids in the way some posters did was WAY over the top. I think I'm done with this board for awhile.

[Genedoc]

I figured it was about time for a "cheer exactly as I do and express yourself exactly as I do or your not only not a real fan, but you're hurting the team" thread.

[Sgt. Dingleberry]

When a team shoots 72% on your defense, that's unheard of. I don't know the last time any college basketball team shot that high of a percentage. Layup after backdoor layup after backdoor dunk after breakaway layup after runout dunk after layup was made on Duke today. That's poor. There is no excuse in that.

Exactly...This was men against boys...72%? There is no excuse...ZERO.

[miramar]

I love these guys, but they have a Jekyll and Hyde personality at home and away. As we know, Duke is undefeated at home and at neutral sites, but 1-4 away. The defensive pressure against Clemson was outstanding (37.5% shooting), but woeful against State (58.2%) and even worse against Georgetown (71.7%).

We certainly don't have mid-major talent, but to continue the nineteenth-century literary analogies, this team has a bit of a Frankenstein character. There is no real point guard, Kyle is still adjusting to being a #3, and the bigs all have their limitations, either of talent or experience.

Fortunately, the NCAA is held at neutral sites, but the ACC is a different matter. After a home game on Thursday against Tech, there are away games against BC (Saturday) and UNC (Wed. Feb. 10). Both teams have had some recent problems (BC has lost 5 of 7, including a home loss to FSU today, and UNC has lost 4 of 6), but those two games are going to tell us a lot about where Duke is headed.

I still have a lot of faith in this team, and I'm sure I'm not the last of the Mohicans on that one. But there's no need to act as though we were doing a reenactment of the Fall of the House of Usher.

(Sorry, I just couldn't help it.)

[helipilot]

We have a very good team that has a lot of talent. This is our team, we can help by understanding and being supportive. They are hurting more than any of us, they work hard to please the fan base. We were out coached today on both ends of the court. It was not talent or effort that lost this game, they were better prepared. They do not normally shoot 73%, but we were not prepared to defend the complexity of their offense. We can shoot better than 30% but their defense held us to no good looks, every thing was contested. Is that a talent shortage no way. I am proud of these guys and their effort, we all feel the pain but tomorrow is another day with a new chance to reach our goals. Next play, Go Duke!

[KyDevilinIL]

This is not a time for niceties. This is not an, "Oh, tough game today, we'll be better next time" situation.

This was an absolute abomination by the players and coaches. It's just a fact. Georgetown shot 72 freaking percent; Duke was horrifying on offense.

This team is capable of being better. We'll see better from them this season. But today, the entire program needs a good, solid chewing out.

[Richard Berg]

Layup after backdoor layup after backdoor dunk after breakaway layup after runout dunk after layup was made on Duke today. That's poor. There is no excuse in that. I have seen high school kids have more of a clue on defense than Duke showed today. It worries me more that this is the second time this season where a team has virtually shredded our interior defense. NC State absolutley demolished Duke inside for easy baskets and Georgetown might as well have been playing 5 on none out there today because NO ONE stepped in their way or remotely tried to stop them on layups and dunks.
Really? You've never seen this happen to talented defenders before? I have.

Frankly, I'd expect any reasonably observant fan on these boards to recognize the pattern. JT3's offense did pretty much the same thing to us in 2006 (albeit not as emphatically) -- and we had Shelden the NDPOY clogging the lane, don't forget. When the Greeks routed Team USA later that summer, it too had eerie similarity. Theirs was a more traditional pick & roll than the scheme JT3 employs, but make no mistake, a team of superstars (including some guy named Battier) got eaten alive by clever passing and 63% shooting. Their 6'10" center (not terribly quick & possessing less hops than Zoubek) shot 6/7 against Dwight f'n Howard. Moral of the story: backdoor layups are simply a risk you run when you play Coach K style defense with less than perfect execution.

Congrats to Georgetown. To be sure, when facing an offense like theirs, it would be nice if Greg Monroe was available as a weak-side shotblocker instead of being one of the guys dunking on us. Meantime, our team is what it is, and I'll continue to root for them. Nor do I have any reason to doubt that K will have them ready come March.

[CameronDuke]

Really? You've never seen this happen to talented defenders before? I have.

Frankly, I'd expect any reasonably observant fan on these boards to recognize the pattern. JT3's offense did pretty much the same thing to us in 2006 (albeit not as emphatically) -- and we had Shelden the NDPOY clogging the lane, don't forget. When the Greeks routed Team USA later that summer, it too had eerie similarity. Theirs was a more traditional pick & roll than the scheme JT3 employs, but make no mistake, a team of superstars (including some guy named Battier) got eaten alive by clever passing and 63% shooting. Their 6'10" center (not terribly quick & possessing less hops than Zoubek) shot 6/7 against Dwight f'n Howard. Moral of the story: backdoor layups are simply a risk you run when you play Coach K style defense with less than perfect execution.

Congrats to Georgetown. To be sure, when facing an offense like theirs, it would be nice if Greg Monroe was available as a weak-side shotblocker instead of being one of the guys dunking on us. Meantime, our team is what it is, and I'll continue to root for them. Nor do I have any reason to doubt that K will have them ready come March.

No, I have never seen a team shoot 72% in college basketball. When was the game you are referring to where a team shot 72% or higher on another team and which teams were playing?

The only pattern that particularly sticks out in my mind was from today's game and it involved Georgetown players running backdoor cuts by our perimeter defenders for uncontested layups and dunks. Moral of the story actually is we got flat out manhandled by Georgetown's offense. Outplayed and outcoached. Period. I always thought if Coach K runs a defense where backdoor cuts can beat you (a point you conceded yourself), then why not switch to a zone defense to combat the backdoor cuts?

Also, saying that you will support Duke the rest of the way kind of comes with the territory of registering for a Duke message board and being an active member of their discussion forums. I kind of figured that this would be the case for people that display enough of an interest to post here. I will do the same, yet I think one of us will be less suprised at a possible early exit from the NCAA Tournament this season.

[mapei]

No, I have never seen a team shoot 72% in college basketball. When was the game you are referring to where a team shot 72% or higher on another team and which teams were playing?

FWIW, the 1985 NCAA final hangs horribly in my memory. That night Gtown shot 64% and lost because Nova couldn't miss. I don't remember their stat for the whole game but I do remember it was 90% in the second half. Gtown did not play badly that night. We just got beat by a team that had lady luck along for the ride.

[DST Fan]

One game that comes to mind is the 1985 NCAA championship game. Villanova shot 22-28, or 79%. As I recall, Nova shot about 89% in the second half.

[QUOTE=CameronDuke;357562]No, I have never seen a team shoot 72% in college basketball. When was the game you are referring to where a team shot 72% or higher on another team and which teams were playing?

[Duvall]

But today, the entire program needs a good, solid chewing out.

Good plan. Should we call the basketball office tonight, or wait until Monday morning?

[bjornolf]

i'm as big a duke fan as the next guy and i agree with most of what you say. i root for them as much when they're losing than when they're winning. but, unfortunately, 1), 2), 3), and 5) are the truth. 4)'s only true if you really thought this was a championship level team. me, this is what i thought they'd be.....a good team, but not a great team. not a team that could win it all. and a 4 or 5 seed in the Tournament at best.

I have to disagree there about the 4 or 5 seed. I agree that Duke is good but not great. However, I've yet to see a "great" team this season. There are tons of good teams, but I've yet to see a single one that I'd call great, one that has yet to show an exploitable flaw. Not even Georgetown. They all have faults. We just didn't match up well with them, and we had a short turn around. G'town'll take their lumps in the Big East. I see us as a 2 or 3 seed this season. I think we'll get better as Mason and Andre continue to improve and earn time, and guys gel and learn to play together.

Oddly, this team's biggest problem seems to be defense to me, which is usually NOT the case for a K team. Every loss has been a game where the defensive intensity just doesn't seem to be there. Games where the team plays D, they do fine. Games where they don't, they get spanked. Rebounding also seems to be a factor. Poor defense and lack of rebounding effort are often signs of a tired team. Again, maybe the short turnaround was the biggest factor. Hopefully, K can work on this.

Next play.

[KyDevilinIL]

Nor do I have any reason to doubt that K will have them ready come March.

Results suggest Duke hasn't been ready for March in years.

The last few years I've clung to blind optimism in the face of Duke's now-traditional January/February crash. I'm still pulling for the guys, but there's absolutely no reason to hope for anything other than what we've experienced since 2005.

The point of the regular season is to get better, and hopefully position yourself for postseason success along the way. But I think we're further from the Final Four today than we were in November, and there's no real reason for it.

[Pernell]

you know something? im pretty tired of people telling fellow fans we cant make a comment about the team we love! i am a duke fan to the grave but when i see something i know is wrong i or anyone else should have the right to say something! plain and simple we arent showing up every game! IMO we arent doing the things we need to do to return to our glory! we are doing the same offense every year for aslong as i can rememeber! i am tired of seeing us shoot 3 after 3 with no hint of an inside game! i am tired of seeing Z playing man to man when he no business doing so! use his height in a zone defense!!!!!!! it just makes sense! we made no adjustments at the half..we just arent playing duke basketball right now!

Thank you for writing this.

Ashamed and embarrassed...give me a break

[bluesin]

I figured it was about time for a "cheer exactly as I do and express yourself exactly as I do or your not only not a real fan, but you're hurting the team" thread.

I guess that makes your post the obligatory, I assume I know what you said even though I didn't actually read what you wrote or I just have poor reading/comprehension skills, post. I didn't say anyone had to cheer like I do, or express themselves like I do, and I didn't even say the people who said the things I found disgusting were not real fans. I'm just ashamed that I am included in the same group of people as those who would say stuff like that, Duke basketball fans. You can be a real fan and still be a jerk. I just don't have to like it, and I felt like speaking out against that kind of negative and pointlessly harmful posting.

And just to be clear being a jerky fan doesn't always hurt the team, but it can give our fans and university a bad name. I know plenty of people who became Duke fans in elementary/high school simply because of jerky UNC fans, and I know a few UNC fans who probably could have made me like the program when I was younger if I'd been exposed to them instead of (thank god) Duke fans. As a fan you're a kind of ambassador for the school as far as I'm concerned, maybe you don't see it that way, but that's where I'm coming from.

So to be clear, cheer however you want, act however you like, you'll still be a real fan, for what that's worth. I wasn't questioning fandom, I was questioning the motive behind the things said and the thought that went into it, that's all.

[CameronDuke]

One game that comes to mind is the 1985 NCAA championship game. Villanova shot 22-28, or 79%. As I recall, Nova shot about 89% in the second half.

[QUOTE=CameronDuke;357562]No, I have never seen a team shoot 72% in college basketball. When was the game you are referring to where a team shot 72% or higher on another team and which teams were playing?

I wasn't on the Earth yet to witness that game, but there is one example nonetheless. Are there any other examples you can think of or know of? If not, then only one time other than today has a team to my knowledge shot better on another team's defense judging by shooting percentage.

Think about all the college basketball games that have gone on in Division 1 in the last 25 years. I'd say tens of thousands of games have been played and one other time has a team shot that well. The sad part is, Georgetown didn't shoot the ball all that often today. Most of their made baskets were layups or dunks where their players guided the ball into the hoop from 2 feet out or closer. There is no way whatsoever that a team should get to the rim that easy.

[KyDevilinIL]

Good plan. Should we call the basketball office tonight, or wait until Monday morning?

Yeah, yeah. Be dismissive and condescending all you want.

I'm standing by my position, though. The program has been stuck for a few years now, and I'm eagerly awaiting a sign that the folks on the inside are fully aware of it.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Duke was horrifying on offense.

Defense was halloween worthy, too.

[Duvall]

Yeah, yeah. Be dismissive and condescending all you want.

I'm standing by my position, though. The program has been stuck for a few years now, and I'm eagerly awaiting a sign that the folks on the inside are fully aware of it.

Like what, exactly? Going out and recruiting better players? The Monroe kid seemed pretty good; maybe they should have gone after somebody like that.

[LSanders]

I agree with the original poster. The point of this post is that constructive criticism, voicing disappointment, providing insightful comments is applauded and welcomed. Vindictive, thick-headed, narcissistic diatribes and personal attacks directed at players and coaches belong more on a UK board.

It's amusing that some posters have responded on this thread trying to defend their right to be jerks and to post whatever they want. I've wondered for years what percentage of those posters actually have Duke degrees ... a point alluded to by another poster on this thread.

Georgetown was playing at home, on national TV, in front of the President, and seeking revenge against a loss that seemed to start a long slide for them last season. They also had almost a week's rest. They were fresher, they were on fire, and we couldn't match their intensity. Anyone who thinks today's game is a perfect representation of the difference between these teams must have taken the slow coach to the Verizon Center. It's what happened TODAY. That's it. Did we make mistakes? Yes. Could we have tried different strategies? Sure. All are good topics for debate.

But, to imply that ANY fan has more at stake or feels worse than either the men wearing blue and white or the men wearing suits and ties is preposterous and demeaning.

I was shocked and disappointed by the game today. I also wonder where our defense went. I wonder if the big three are getting too many minutes and what that will mean a couple of months from now. I wonder why our bigs aren't more consistent. I wonder why we didn't go more zone if our man wasn't cutting off the back door cuts. I wonder about a lot of things ... just like the rest of you.

The one thing I DON'T wonder about is the heart and desire of the team or the coaches. If you do, you've got issues. We stunk it up badly today, no question. Hopefully, the team and coaches will figure out what happened today and move on.

But, to take advantage of the anonymity of the Internet to personally attack the team you supposedly support is cowardly and offensive. YOU should be ashamed and embarrassed ... But, something tells me ...

[houstondukie]

So I logged onto DBR at halftime to see what people were saying about half court adjustments, defense, how they thought the team would respond and what they thought our options were. You know, analysis. And I got some. Apparently, at halftime of a late January game the analysis that people thought was befitting Duke fans in general and the finest Duke basketball board on the internet was that this team was (and I'm quoting/paraphrasing from memory, because I have NO desire to ever read that kind of trite, uninformed, DISGUSTING drivel again):
1) a sweet 16 team at best
2) as bad as the last 7 years worth of teams (which in case you're forgetting included a round of 8 that could have easily been a final 4)
3) incapable of competing against "elite" teams
4) overrated
5) lacking leadership and passion
6) embarassing themselves and us

I am ASHAMED and EMBARRASSED to be associated with some of the people who would write things like that. I'm a Duke fan for life, I'll root for this team and every other team until the day I die, and while I may be disappointed with the effort on a given night or the result, I promise I will NEVER throw our team, our player, or our coaches under the bus or write off their chances to do well like I saw done on this board today.

Be upset if you want, but don't forget that no matter how badly you want to win, these players, these coaches, this team wants to win more and they are MORE ashamed of how they played than you could ever be. Be mad if you want, but don't forget these are 18-22 year old kids, playing for us and for the school. So no matter what you feel when Duke loses, they feel worse, they feel like they let people down; let their teammates, the school, the alumni, their friends all down. They didn't let me down, even if I am not satisfied with the effort and the result. And whether you want to admit it or not they didn't let you down either. And it's my job to let them know that I'm still behind them. I'm upset they lost, but they are good kids, and I know they tried, I know they fought, I know they didn't lose on purpose. I also know they have talent and leadership and everything it takes to be a good team.

I am deeply ashamed that I am associated as a Duke fan with some of the other people who posted things here today. But I am NOT ashamed of those men who put on the blue and white and play for us.

Do what you want with this post, delete it, flame it, flame me I don't really care, just please don't ignore it. In fact I hope you do flame and rant and rave at me here if it makes you feel better, and if it keeps someone from saying something hurtful or counterproductive about this Duke team then I'll be glad to take the heat. I'll do my part for them, as a fan, I'll cheer for them, I'll take abuse, I'm willing to do that, even if I'm upset at how the game turned out or how people played. Because being upset doesn't mean that I have to be rash, or hurtful, or spiteful, or take my anger out on the team.

I realize some people said things they didn't mean, and I don't intend to call anyone out or make specific statements about people. If you said it and you didn't mean it, then I hope this post makes you think, I know people do things they regret later (I'll probably regret writing this post later :p) and I am proud to be associated with almost everyone on this board, this isn't a general calling out so much as it is a plea to think before you type, analyze instead of reacting, remember that you're a representative of the university and all fans of Duke when you speak. And please, remember players, recruits, their families and many others associated with the program read this board from time to time. If you wouldn't say it to their face, and attach your name to it in the real world then don't say it here, I beg you. All it does is make you feel better in the short term, and it doesn't help anyone else.

I was angry when I started typing, now I'm just profoundly sad. I'm not happy we lost, but I am happy I'm a Dukie, and that those guys chose to play for Duke, and I know they'll play the best they can next time out. Next Play, and Go Duke!

Oh please... Just because we are critical of our team, doesn't mean we are Duke-haters. Go be a cheerleader.

[CameronDuke]

I agree with the original poster. The point of this post is that constructive criticism, voicing disappointment, providing insightful comments is applauded and welcomed. Vindictive, thick-headed, narcissistic diatribes and personal attacks directed at players and coaches belong more on a UK board.

But, to take advantage of the anonymity of the Internet to personally attack the team you supposedly support is cowardly and offensive. YOU should be ashamed and embarrassed ... But, something tells me ...

You lost lots of credibility in my opinion by attacking an opposing team's fan base while trying to preach NOT TO make personal attacks. I don't care for Kentucky, either, but telling people to lay off the personal attacks while making a direct reference to an opposing team's fan base sounds duplicitous to me, but that's just me.

[DST Fan]

I was in Rupp Arena that evening. As painful as today was for Duke fans, it can't compare to what Hoya fans experienced in 1985. But to answer your question, at the moment, I do not have other examples.




[QUOTE=DST Fan;357568]One game that comes to mind is the 1985 NCAA championship game. Villanova shot 22-28, or 79%. As I recall, Nova shot about 89% in the second half.



I wasn't on the Earth yet to witness that game, but there is one example nonetheless. Are there any other examples you can think of or know of? If not, then only one time other than today has a team to my knowledge shot better on another team's defense judging by shooting percentage.

Think about all the college basketball games that have gone on in Division 1 in the last 25 years. I'd say tens of thousands of games have been played and one other time has a team shot that well. The sad part is, Georgetown didn't shoot the ball all that often today. Most of their made baskets were layups or dunks where their players guided the ball into the hoop from 2 feet out or closer. There is no way whatsoever that a team should get to the rim that easy.

[KyDevilinIL]

Like what, exactly? Going out and recruiting better players? The Monroe kid seemed pretty good; maybe they should have gone after somebody like that.

Well sure, it would have been nice to have landed Monroe or any of the other guys we've lost. But actually that's not my complaint. I think the players we have are fine - it was clear from watching the game that Duke could have won with a halfway decent performance.

But the frequency with which Duke is being run out of gyms is concerning. Seriously, there's plenty of talent on Duke's roster. We're weak in some spots, but most teams are. Problem is, we are in a pattern of making negligible, if any, improvement from the beginning of the season to the end. We are pretty much fully formed in November, which makes no sense.

I don't know how to fix it, because that's not what I get paid to do. But just because you don't have an immediate answer doesn't mean nothing's wrong.

[RelativeWays]

This Duke team deserves some criticism for its lack of consistency. I really don't like seeing these guys get manhandled by State of Gtown when they are better than what they display. There's nobody on the team that I think is a cancer, a problem or I can't wait for them to graduate/leave, thats a poor fan in my opinion. I do think we would benefit from a true elite PG, but I really think the problems this team has is on the whole. The defense has been TERRIBLE this season in our loses, at least the 07 lead the league in defense. We haven't figured out how to get the ball inside to at least get some attempts. I think Miles and Mason would get more points if they were truly part of the offensive scheme. This team has a lot to figure out and only about a month to do it. And I also think they REALLY need to commit to and improve upon the zone defense. This team does not have the personnel to run MTM effectively.

[devildeac]

I have to disagree there about the 4 or 5 seed. I agree that Duke is good but not great. However, I've yet to see a "great" team this season. There are tons of good teams, but I've yet to see a single one that I'd call great, one that has yet to show an exploitable flaw. Not even Georgetown. They all have faults. We just didn't match up well with them, and we had a short turn around. G'town'll take their lumps in the Big East. I see us as a 2 or 3 seed this season. I think we'll get better as Mason and Andre continue to improve and earn time, and guys gel and learn to play together.

Oddly, this team's biggest problem seems to be defense to me, which is usually NOT the case for a K team. Every loss has been a game where the defensive intensity just doesn't seem to be there. Games where the team plays D, they do fine. Games where they don't, they get spanked. Rebounding also seems to be a factor. Poor defense and lack of rebounding effort are often signs of a tired team. Again, maybe the short turnaround was the biggest factor. Hopefully, K can work on this.

Next play.

Only disagreement with this is we had 12 OR and they had 1 (no typo). Of course, we missed a helluva lot more shots than they did:(. We had 26 total boards and they had 19. This is according to espn stats.

I think most times we'd be satisfied with a +7 in the rebounds category in a road game. Sadly, not today.

[devildeac]

Defense was halloween worthy, too.

Sadly, this is funny but true.:rolleyes::(

[Newton_14]

I agree with the original poster. The point of this post is that constructive criticism, voicing disappointment, providing insightful comments is applauded and welcomed. Vindictive, thick-headed, narcissistic diatribes and personal attacks directed at players and coaches belong more on a UK board.

It's amusing that some posters have responded on this thread trying to defend their right to be jerks and to post whatever they want. I've wondered for years what percentage of those posters actually have Duke degrees ... a point alluded to by another poster on this thread.
Georgetown was playing at home, on national TV, in front of the President, and seeking revenge against a loss that seemed to start a long slide for them last season. They also had almost a week's rest. They were fresher, they were on fire, and we couldn't match their intensity. Anyone who thinks today's game is a perfect representation of the difference between these teams must have taken the slow coach to the Verizon Center. It's what happened TODAY. That's it. Did we make mistakes? Yes. Could we have tried different strategies? Sure. All are good topics for debate.

But, to imply that ANY fan has more at stake or feels worse than either the men wearing blue and white or the men wearing suits and ties is preposterous and demeaning.

I was shocked and disappointed by the game today. I also wonder where our defense went. I wonder if the big three are getting too many minutes and what that will mean a couple of months from now. I wonder why our bigs aren't more consistent. I wonder why we didn't go more zone if our man wasn't cutting off the back door cuts. I wonder about a lot of things ... just like the rest of you.

The one thing I DON'T wonder about is the heart and desire of the team or the coaches. If you do, you've got issues. We stunk it up badly today, no question. Hopefully, the team and coaches will figure out what happened today and move on.

But, to take advantage of the anonymity of the Internet to personally attack the team you supposedly support is cowardly and offensive. YOU should be ashamed and embarrassed ... But, something tells me ...

I agree with most everything you said before and after the part I bolded. That is an incredibly unfair implication and stereotypying at it's finest. I for one do not have a Duke degree but I certainly do not say vile or overly negative things about our players or coaches after a loss. It's fine to call out folks that say the kind of things the OP pointed out, but trying to say it only comes from those without degrees is just wrong.

[mapei]

I do not have a Duke degree. Are you suggesting I should leave the board? I'm here because I love Duke basketball.

[CameronDuke]

I agree with most everything you said before and after the part I bolded. That is an incredibly unfair implication and stereotypying at it's finest. I for one do not have a Duke degree but I certainly do not say vile or overly negative things about our players or coaches after a loss. It's fine to call out folks that say the kind of things the OP pointed out, but trying to say it only comes from those without degrees is just wrong.

To further your point, because one possesses a degree from Duke does not automatically qualify them as being incredibly gifted and head and shoulders more intelligent than others. I had friends that went to Duke and earned degrees that have the same kinds of vocabularies, emotions, traits, skills, beliefs, habits, etc. as me...

It's this type of "Duke arrogance" that many people refer to when talking about Duke grads. I love the basketball program, but statements like the one made by the poster you were referring to make me see what people talk about sometimes...an elitist since of entitlement with an heir of smug arrogance and pompousness. Not all Duke grads, but ones like the poster you were referring to. I could clearly see where he was going with that thought.

[KyDevilinIL]

I agree with most everything you said before and after the part I bolded. That is an incredibly unfair implication and stereotypying at it's finest. I for one do not have a Duke degree but I certainly do not say vile or overly negative things about our players or coaches after a loss. It's fine to call out folks that say the kind of things the OP pointed out, but trying to say it only comes from those without degrees is just wrong.

I quoted you, Boozer, but this isn't directed at you.

Some folks on this board will never accept non-Duke grads as worthy of being called fans. I was a Duke fan since I was old enough to understand what it meant to be a fan of anything. But attending Duke was never an option for me, for all kinds of reasons.

The school I did graduate from I couldn't care less about in hoops. Why? Because I have always been and will always be a Duke fan first. But to some I'll also be a second-class Duke fan because I didn't go to the school. It's offensive and grossly self-important for anyone to suggest I'm less worthy of expressing my opinions about the team simply because I'm not an alumnus.

[BlueintheFace]

Yeah, yeah. Be dismissive and condescending all you want.

Okay, "abomination" is how you would describe this game? That is ridiculous.

[JBDuke]

Okay, this has gone far enough, and it's starting to turn nasty.

This thread is CLOSED.