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scottdude8
01-28-2010, 05:26 PM
Obviously, after the way Kyle has (relatively) struggled this year it seems as if the chances of him returning to Duke are rising. But I am personally still worried for one reason—the speculation by many that he may return to the 4 next year, if not full time for a lot of the time. Again, although Kyle has struggled at the 3 thus far, in the pre-season he seemed really excited to play the 3, and his NBA position, IMO, is going to be the 3 regardless of how he plays in college at the 4.

I personally don't see him starting at the four, as some do (I think both Plumlee's will start), but I think he would definitely see 10-15 minutes a game at the 4 to spell them, and then we could have a three guard lineup consisting of 3 of Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, and Andre (I know, sick, right?). But might this possibility incite Kyle to leave, even if he's fallen to the late 1st round?

Again, I still see him staying minus a G-like stretch late in ACC play, but what do you all think?

SCMatt33
01-28-2010, 05:31 PM
I don't think that his position at Duke will have nearly the impact on his status as his prospective draft position. If he's pretty much guaranteed to go in the middle of round 1, he'll probably leave. If he's at the end of the first round, he'll have a tough decision, and if he thinks that the first round might not happen, he'll probably stay.

concrete
01-28-2010, 06:17 PM
I see K toying with the idea of Kyle at the 3 but I think he ends up starting at 4. I'd be suprised if Irving doesn't start (unless he just isn't as good as the hype says), with Nolan, and Seth (if Seth is anywhere near as potent with the 3). I see Mason as the first reserve with Dawkins.

If Irving doesn't start then that means Seth/Nolan is our better option at PG...at that point Mason/Miles will both play with Kyle in the front court.

Cameron
01-28-2010, 06:17 PM
My personal opinion is that Kyle has played himself out of the 8 to 15 draft spot he probably would have landed with the ultra-successful season many expected him to have heading into this season. It's been a trying year for him at times, I think, playing his new role at the three (even though, as well all know, Coach K doesn't number positions). He's still had some dynamite games and solid numbers -- 28 at Wisconsin, averaging over 16 and 7 per -- but those are probably not the numbers Kyle thought he'd be putting up.

At the start of the year, I thought it was 100% he was gone. But now I think it's below 50/50.

So my question to those who are more privy to NBA Draft information and where players currently hang in the pre-draft balance, where do you see Kyle ending up, based on his current numbers? Let's say he'll not have that Gerald-like end to the ACC season (hopefully he does) and continues to put up the solid, but not overly sighting, numbers he has? Will he be back? Will it not matter?

flyingdutchdevil
01-28-2010, 06:50 PM
You may not like this, but Singler is the perfect definition of a tweener - doesn't have the handle and 3-pt shot of a 3 and doesn't have the refined post skills of a 4. In college, it isn't that much of a problem. In the NBA, much bigger deal. It's unfortunate, because Kyle is such a talented player. He has been much more comfortable at the 4 in college, and his skill set isn't cut out for the 4 in the NBA. He is Dirk-esque in his skill set, but his height and size aren't perfect. As Cameron said, I think he did play himself out of the lottery; he will probably still he a first round pick though.

BlueintheFace
01-28-2010, 06:58 PM
If he stays, he spends a majority of his time at the 4. Of that you can be sure.

miramar
01-28-2010, 07:00 PM
For what it’s worth, these guys don’t list him, which I guess means they expect him back:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft

These guys have him as the last pick in the first round:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2010/

#3 in the second round:

http://www.mynbadraft.com/2010-NBA-Mock-Draft-Round-2

Of course, IIRC at this point in the season all of these mock drafts had McRoberts in the top 20 and Henderson out of the first round.

wilson
01-28-2010, 07:03 PM
Several of the mock drafts I've looked at recently (which are admittedly pure conjecture, of course) have Kyle slated in the late first round in next year's draft. I'll be very, very surprised if he leaves after this season.

_Gary
01-28-2010, 07:12 PM
At this point I'd be more concerned about Nolan leaving than Kyle. Not that I think there's any real possibility of him going, but with the banner year he's having and the whole "potential" thing when it comes to the draft, I'd think he has ever so slightly passed Kyle on some draft boards at this point in the season. But I don't think he's going anywhere (at least I hope he doesn't). I also don't see Kyle going.

Gary

houstondukie
01-28-2010, 07:22 PM
At this point I'd be more concerned about Nolan leaving than Kyle. Not that I think there's any real possibility of him going, but with the banner year he's having and the whole "potential" thing when it comes to the draft, I'd think he has ever so slightly passed Kyle on some draft boards at this point in the season. But I don't think he's going anywhere (at least I hope he doesn't). I also don't see Kyle going.

Gary

Not sure if that applies to a rising senior?

_Gary
01-28-2010, 07:37 PM
Not sure if that applies to a rising senior?

You lost me.

Hermy-own
01-28-2010, 07:48 PM
I see K toying with the idea of Kyle at the 3 but I think he ends up starting at 4. I'd be suprised if Irving doesn't start (unless he just isn't as good as the hype says), with Nolan, and Seth (if Seth is anywhere near as potent with the 3). I see Mason as the first reserve with Dawkins.

If Irving doesn't start then that means Seth/Nolan is our better option at PG...at that point Mason/Miles will both play with Kyle in the front court.

Isn't Seth about the same height as Nolan (6-2)? Doesn't that pretty much limit him to playing the 1 or 2 spot? I mean, can someone that short even guard the 3? I really don't know - maybe the extra quickness would help, like it has helped opponents against Kyle. The obvious problems would be getting shot over, and getting posted up. On the other hand, Coach K likes going small, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a lineup with 3 of Irving, Smith, Dawkings and Seth in at the same time - but Dawkins would probably play the "3". Oh man, our offense is going to be EXPLOSIVE next year.

rhcpflea99
01-28-2010, 07:50 PM
Draft is mostly based on potential and Kyle potential is still high. Baffles me people knocking on him because Kyle over game is amazing only thing wrong is Kyle shots have not been falling. His overall understanding of the game, potential, and work ethic should land him in the top 10. I say top 15 at least and I don't believe he will stay for his senior season but I'm hoping.

Kedsy
01-28-2010, 08:26 PM
Draft is mostly based on potential and Kyle potential is still high. Baffles me people knocking on him because Kyle over game is amazing only thing wrong is Kyle shots have not been falling. His overall understanding of the game, potential, and work ethic should land him in the top 10. I say top 15 at least and I don't believe he will stay for his senior season but I'm hoping.

The "potential" the NBA folks look for is tied to athleticism. I don't think many NBA people view Kyle as a guy with a lot of potential; rather they view him as a somewhat finished product with not so much upside.

Brian Cardinal was about the same size as Kyle. His last year at Purdue he went approximately 14 and 6. He was known as an excellent defensive player and hustle guy, not considered an outstanding athlete, shot 34% from 3-pointland and swiped a couple of steals per game. He was drafted in the middle of the 2nd round.

I think Kyle's skills are better than Cardinal's, and his numbers have been a little better, but the main issue is size compared to position. Cardinal was a tweener then, and the NBA game is bigger now. Bottom line is if NBA people think Kyle can play the 3, he has good size for the position and could go 10 to 15. Apparently nobody thinks that at the current time. As an undersized 4 with skills but who isn't a great shooter or ballhandler and doesn't have off-the-charts athleticism, Kyle goes late first round or early second round.

Carlos Boozer was a 4/5 tweener and got taken in the 2nd round. Gerald Henderson has off-the-charts athleticism but still was only taken 12th because he was a 2/3 tweener. Nolan, at his height and lack of documented PG skills is a 1/2 tweener and that's why he'll probably stick around for his senior year (although I don't think that's a lock like a lot of people do). Kyle is a 3/4 tweener, not an NBA 3, and until he shows differently he'll be drafted late first round/early second round.

Having said all that, I still think there's a 50% chance or better than Kyle chances it and skips his senior year. Obviously, time will tell.

houstondukie
01-28-2010, 08:47 PM
Isn't Seth about the same height as Nolan (6-2)? Doesn't that pretty much limit him to playing the 1 or 2 spot? I mean, can someone that short even guard the 3? I really don't know - maybe the extra quickness would help, like it has helped opponents against Kyle. The obvious problems would be getting shot over, and getting posted up. On the other hand, Coach K likes going small, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a lineup with 3 of Irving, Smith, Dawkings and Seth in at the same time - but Dawkins would probably play the "3". Oh man, our offense is going to be EXPLOSIVE next year.

Seth Curry will not be starting a the 3 next year. Anyone who believes so (not saying you do), doesn't know what they're talking about.

houstondukie
01-28-2010, 08:52 PM
This is just my opinion, but I think the reason Coach K is recruiting the SF position so hard is because he intends to use Kyle more at the 4 next year. I still think Kyle starts at the 3 alongside the Plumlee brothers down low, but the first sub will be a guard/SF (Curry, Dawkins, Felix etc.) for one of the Plumlee brothers, moving Singler to the 4.

uh_no
01-28-2010, 09:53 PM
At this point I'd be more concerned about Nolan leaving than Kyle. Not that I think there's any real possibility of him going, but with the banner year he's having and the whole "potential" thing when it comes to the draft, I'd think he has ever so slightly passed Kyle on some draft boards at this point in the season. But I don't think he's going anywhere (at least I hope he doesn't). I also don't see Kyle going.

Gary

Nolan has said he's not leaving Duke without a degree.

Dukeface88
01-28-2010, 09:55 PM
This is just my opinion, but I think the reason Coach K is recruiting the SF position so hard is because he intends to use Kyle more at the 4 next year. I still think Kyle starts at the 3 alongside the Plumlee brothers down low, but the first sub will be a guard/SF (Curry, Dawkins, Felix etc.) for one of the Plumlee brothers, moving Singler to the 4.

I'd say our lack of depth at the 3 is more than enough reason to justify recruiting heavily. There are currently 3 guys on the team that can play the 3: Lance (defensively), Kyle and Ryan. Lance is not coming back, Kyle might not come back and Ryan will ideally play as part of the big man rotation. If Kyle does come back there's still the possibility of foul trouble or injuries. Besides that, we'd like to have someone in the wings (pun intended) for 2011, instead of being forced to recruit frantically.

Devilsfan
01-28-2010, 09:59 PM
Ryan playing extended minutes next year? I hope so because that meant he would have a second major, the weight room.

Kedsy
01-28-2010, 10:35 PM
This is just my opinion, but I think the reason Coach K is recruiting the SF position so hard is because he intends to use Kyle more at the 4 next year.

Well, either that or he doesn't think Kyle is going to be here.

Dukeface88
01-28-2010, 10:36 PM
Ryan playing extended minutes next year? I hope so because that meant he would have a second major, the weight room.

We need him to be. Both the Plumlees have gotten themselves in foul trouble, and we have to expect that Hairston will make the Frosh mistakes (including more fouls). Given that, it probably won't be uncommon for us to have foul trouble in the frontcourt. Kelly will give us a good safety net if he does the required strength training over the off season.

pfrduke
01-28-2010, 11:03 PM
Draft is mostly based on potential and Kyle potential is still high. Baffles me people knocking on him because Kyle over game is amazing only thing wrong is Kyle shots have not been falling. His overall understanding of the game, potential, and work ethic should land him in the top 10. I say top 15 at least and I don't believe he will stay for his senior season but I'm hoping.

Here's a list of 15 people that would, if it were held today, be drafted ahead of Singler:

John Wall
Derrick Favors
Demarcus Cousins
Wesley Johnson
Evan Turner
Greg Monroe
Cole Aldrich
Patrick Patterson
Ed Davis
Donatas Motiejunas
Xavier Henry
Stanley Robinson
Damion James
Craig Brackins
Al-Farouq Aminu

Beyond them, guys like Larry Sanders, Elias Harris, Solomon Alabi, Willie Warren, Ekpe Udoh, Quincy Pondexter, Devin Ebanks, Sherron Collins, Gani Lawal, and Artsiom Parakhouski could easily be picked ahead of Singler. That's not a complete list. This is no knock on Kyle - I could have made a similar list of 20-25 guys that would have gone ahead of Hansbrough if he had left after his junior year. But right now, he's way too small to play 4 in the NBA and he's too slow (and too inconsistent of a shooter/ball-handler) to play 3.

scottdude8
01-28-2010, 11:16 PM
Glad to see this discussion has taken off. A bunch of people have said Kyle would start at the four, and I personally see NO WAY that happens. Given Seth and Nolan are both 6'2'' they probably can't guard a normal 3 man, and Andre is a little taller but still probably can't guard a 3. So while I can see us having a 3 guard offense occasionally during the game to give the Plumlee's a rest, i can't see us having that as our starting lineup.

Kedsy
01-28-2010, 11:55 PM
Glad to see this discussion has taken off. A bunch of people have said Kyle would start at the four, and I personally see NO WAY that happens. Given Seth and Nolan are both 6'2'' they probably can't guard a normal 3 man, and Andre is a little taller but still probably can't guard a 3. So while I can see us having a 3 guard offense occasionally during the game to give the Plumlee's a rest, i can't see us having that as our starting lineup.

I think by next year Andre will be able to guard a significant percentage of the 3s out there, although there will also be a significant percentage who will be too big for him to guard. I haven't done a survey, but I don't get the impression that all that many 3s are much taller than 6'5" or 6'6".

DeBlueDevil
01-29-2010, 12:21 AM
IMO I think Coach K keeps Singler at the 3. I think we'll have a lineup of Irving or Curry, Smith, Singler, Plumlee and Plumlee to start. That leaves us with a solid guard rotation with Curry or Irving, Dawkins, Thornton coming in as subs. Dawkins some at 3 for Singler. Hairston and Kelly as subs at the 4 and 5. With a possible Terrance Ross or someone like that if we pick up another recruit helping out at 3 sometimes as well. I agree with most that ultimately Kyle will play some 4 next year and how much I think depends on how fatigued the Bigs get and also how well they play. We may be a little soft down low when Miles and Mason are out of the game. Not sure if Kelly and Hairston will be ready to be physical down there with Kelly being somewhat of a finesse 3 or 4 and Hairston being a freshman. That's the main reason why I think Kyle will get some play at the 4 here and there.

pfrduke
01-29-2010, 12:38 AM
Glad to see this discussion has taken off. A bunch of people have said Kyle would start at the four, and I personally see NO WAY that happens. Given Seth and Nolan are both 6'2'' they probably can't guard a normal 3 man, and Andre is a little taller but still probably can't guard a 3. So while I can see us having a 3 guard offense occasionally during the game to give the Plumlee's a rest, i can't see us having that as our starting lineup.

Doesn't really matter where he starts. I think he'll play 12-15 minutes a game as the 4, and 15-25 minutes a game as the 3, with possible variation depending on matchups. Smith, Irving, Curry, and Dawkins will likely command about 100 minutes, collectively. That's either 20 minutes where Kyle is on the bench or somewhere between 10 and 20 where he's playing 4.

As an aside, nice to have that kind of flexibility, huh? :)

UrinalCake
01-29-2010, 08:55 AM
I think Kyle is at his best when he plays the style of a 3 but is being guarded by the other team's 4. Defensively, he can guard either position equally well, at least within our system. I do think he stays at the 3 next year but we'll have more balance so he'll be able to expoit mismatches a little better. Of course, we'll have to see what happens if we were to land Terrence Ross or another more prototypical 3.

davekay1971
01-29-2010, 09:09 AM
Whether Kyle is more comfortable on the perimeter or inside, the personnel we'll have next year dictate that he'll continue to play more as a 3.

Our backcourt is going to be a rotation of Nolan, Andre, Kyrie, Seth, and Thornton (though I haven't seen enough of any of the last 3 to have a clue as to how much they'll play).

Our interior game is going to be The Plumlees, hopefully with Hairston getting some minutes. Depending on matchups, foul difficulties, etc, Kyle will probably see some time at the 4.

Kelly has the height for the 4, but, as noted in an earlier post, he and the weight room are going to need to become close personal friends for him to be able to function in the paint.

So Kelly and Kyle are going to be our most natural 3s, and Kyle is clearly going to be much stronger than Kelly in that position.

arnie
01-29-2010, 09:17 AM
Draft is mostly based on potential and Kyle potential is still high. Baffles me people knocking on him because Kyle over game is amazing only thing wrong is Kyle shots have not been falling. His overall understanding of the game, potential, and work ethic should land him in the top 10. I say top 15 at least and I don't believe he will stay for his senior season but I'm hoping.

Don't have a link, but K is quoted (Dan Patrick interview I believe) in the N&O that Singler would not be a lottery pick in next years draft. He also compares him to battier in that Shane's draft status rose his senior year.

CDu
01-29-2010, 09:26 AM
I agree with the post that said Kyle's natural college position is playing the 4 spot with the style of a 3. There, he's likely to be as quick as his man and more comfortable than his man on the perimeter, while still able to bang inside when necessary.

However, I think it'll depend on what the team needs. We'll have five smallish guards (Smith, Curry, Dawkins, Irving, Thornton) and three bigs (Plumlee, Plumlee, Kelly). In between will be Singler, Hairston, and perhaps another midsize guy. If Dawkins and/or another big wing recruit are further along than Hairston and Kelly, then we'll probably see Singler a lot at the 4. If Hairston, Kelly, and/or Mason are further along than the backcourt guys, then we'll see more of Singler at the 3.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that Singler will play significant minutes at both spots.

scottdude8
01-29-2010, 09:53 AM
Doesn't really matter where he starts. I think he'll play 12-15 minutes a game as the 4, and 15-25 minutes a game as the 3, with possible variation depending on matchups. Smith, Irving, Curry, and Dawkins will likely command about 100 minutes, collectively. That's either 20 minutes where Kyle is on the bench or somewhere between 10 and 20 where he's playing 4.

As an aside, nice to have that kind of flexibility, huh? :)

That is what I see happening as well... maybe 10-15 minutes at the 4, but still a similar situation. I personally think that will be a great plan to spread minutes around more evenly and give everyone playing time, but I am still slightly concerned as to whether Kyle will accept that if it does indeed happen, given how much he seems to enjoy playing the 3 rather than the 4 even with his struggles...

sagegrouse
01-29-2010, 09:59 AM
If he stays, he spends a majority of his time at the 4. Of that you can be sure.

Not to be Jumbovian in my response, but I think we can mostly be sure that this is your opinion.:);):rolleyes:

Consider the contrary view:

1. Los Plum Locos seem almost certain to be in the starting lineup. I mean, is Mason the second coming of Christian Laettner or not? I think the upheaval on the DBR if we go with a small lineup out of the box is frightening to think about.

2. Don't you think Josh Hairston is going to get 10-15 mins. per game next year? He is a bruiser and will play the "4." Also Ryan Kelly will get a lot more time next year than this year, and if he and Kyle are on the court at the same time, Ryan will play the 4.

3. Kyle is the only guy on the roster next year between 6-4 and 6-9. And he is a very skilled and mobile player. If someone has to play the "wing position" [K hates position references], who the heck would it be?

4. For what you say to be true, assuming Kyle is on the court 35-40 mins. per game, then at least one-half the time Duke would have a three-guard lineup. Seems doubtful.

sagegrouse

CDu
01-29-2010, 09:59 AM
That is what I see happening as well... maybe 10-15 minutes at the 4, but still a similar situation. I personally think that will be a great plan to spread minutes around more evenly and give everyone playing time, but I am still slightly concerned as to whether Kyle will accept that if it does indeed happen, given how much he seems to enjoy playing the 3 rather than the 4 even with his struggles...

Does he really prefer the 3 to the 4, or does he just prefer the 3 or 4 to the 5? I think people forget that Singler was often forced to play the 5 in his first two years because we were just so undersized.

Either way, he'll play the same type of game as he always has (outside in). He's been a perimeter offensive player all three years, and if he's back next year (and I expect he'll be back) he'll play the perimeter again.

dukeimac
01-29-2010, 10:12 AM
Here's a list of 15 people that would, if it were held today, be drafted ahead of Singler:

John Wall
Derrick Favors
Demarcus Cousins
Wesley Johnson
Evan Turner
Greg Monroe
Cole Aldrich
Patrick Patterson
Ed Davis
Donatas Motiejunas
Xavier Henry
Stanley Robinson
Damion James
Craig Brackins
Al-Farouq Aminu

Beyond them, guys like Larry Sanders, Elias Harris, Solomon Alabi, Willie Warren, Ekpe Udoh, Quincy Pondexter, Devin Ebanks, Sherron Collins, Gani Lawal, and Artsiom Parakhouski could easily be picked ahead of Singler. That's not a complete list. This is no knock on Kyle - I could have made a similar list of 20-25 guys that would have gone ahead of Hansbrough if he had left after his junior year. But right now, he's way too small to play 4 in the NBA and he's too slow (and too inconsistent of a shooter/ball-handler) to play 3.

Good research!

As one person posted on one of the topics earlier, Coach K is preparing Kyle for the pros. Thus, Coach K would not "plan" to play Kyle at the 4 next year but it comes down to more of the match up game.

Take FSU for example. the other night Duke didn't do much when Kyle was at the 4. Not that they did real bad but they didn't do real good. Next year FSU gets taller, if you can imagine. They have several recruits at 6'9" and taller coming in. Playing against them, no way Kyle plays much if any at the 4. When he did play at the 4 he still stood outside the arc most of the time so I would say they weren't calling him a 4. UNC is a tall team with Zeller, the Wears and Harriston. Against teams like this Duke will need to force turnovers from the guards.

I could see Duke with a small lineup at times with Kyrie, Nolan and Seth in the game pushing Kyle to the 4 but no way he posts anyone up. They will play the way Nova plays with their 3 guards. Their 4 is like Kyle (King), they get out and press and get up and down the court. Duke will go to that style next year with what they have. Mason and Ryan will need to come along with their dribbling drills this off season so they can play the 4 but I think they will be a transition team next year, and I mean "transition" team.

I'm concerned that Dawkins might see less time next year. Kyrie is a top notch PG, Nolan is proving himself this year and Seth is lights out in practice. Listen to the announcers talk about watching their practice and Seth sounds like he could be their best player. If that is the case that pushes Kyle to the 4 and where does anyone else fit in. The only spot open is the 5 spot.

houstondukie
01-29-2010, 10:20 AM
IMO I think Coach K keeps Singler at the 3. I think we'll have a lineup of Irving or Curry, Smith, Singler, Plumlee and Plumlee to start. That leaves us with a solid guard rotation with Curry or Irving, Dawkins, Thornton coming in as subs. Dawkins some at 3 for Singler. Hairston and Kelly as subs at the 4 and 5. With a possible Terrance Ross or someone like that if we pick up another recruit helping out at 3 sometimes as well. I agree with most that ultimately Kyle will play some 4 next year and how much I think depends on how fatigued the Bigs get and also how well they play. We may be a little soft down low when Miles and Mason are out of the game. Not sure if Kelly and Hairston will be ready to be physical down there with Kelly being somewhat of a finesse 3 or 4 and Hairston being a freshman. That's the main reason why I think Kyle will get some play at the 4 here and there.

Why are people debating who will start at PG next year?

There is no way Irving is not starting next year, from day 1.

slower
01-29-2010, 10:22 AM
IMO I think Coach K keeps Singler at the 3. I think we'll have a lineup of Irving or Curry...

if Irving is NOT starting at the point, it will be a surprise to lots of folks. No slam on Seth intended, but Kyrie is supposed to be the next great thing, right?

*ah, houstondukie beat me to it*

davekay1971
01-29-2010, 10:50 AM
I think the upheaval on the DBR if we go with a small lineup out of the box is frightening to think about.
sagegrouse

And this is why Coach K is who he is and I'm who I am (ie: not a hall-of-fame basketball coach): because if I was coach I would make the mistake of reading DBR and I would get WAAAAAAAYYYY too much pleasure starting Smith, Irving, Dawkins, Curry and Singler the first game...and keep them all in the game at least 35 minutes no matter what the score...just so I could read DBR and laugh at the consternation and teeth-gnashing the next day.

Like I said, that's why K is who he is and I'm just another faceless DBR poster...

DeBlueDevil
01-29-2010, 11:07 AM
if Irving is NOT starting at the point, it will be a surprise to lots of folks. No slam on Seth intended, but Kyrie is supposed to be the next great thing, right?

*ah, houstondukie beat me to it*
I don't think there is much debate either whether Kyrie will be the starting PG because I believe that's what the plan is. But I wouldn't be suprised to see Seth there either. As was said in earlier posts....word is that he's been playing PG in practice and has been playing very well. Coach K doesn't seem like the type of coach to just play Kyrie based on hype and potential. Key word is potential. I believe if come next year Seth is playing better than Kyrie which isn't impossible then he may be more ready to be our starting PG. I think Kyrie will be phenomenal and the probable starter but reality is he will have a learning curve and he also will be significantly behind Seth as he has been around and will have practiced for a full year.

Nolan is obviously our SG and I just think we absolutely have to have the Plumlees at 4 and 5. Either way I'm not concerned with whomever runs the PG or SG because thats the luxury we'll have being deep at these positions which is great and as the post said before thats why K is who he is...i'll trust whomever he puts out there.

I still see Kyle at 3 though and am a little concerned now that I took a closer look at the bigs if we will be able to compete on the boards against some tougher teams. Then again may not have to worry since the ball will be always going through the hoop... ;)

jv001
01-29-2010, 11:15 AM
Nolan is obviously our SG and I just think we absolutely have to have the Plumlees at 4 and 5. Either way I'm not concerned with whomever runs the PG or SG because thats the luxury we'll have being deep at these positions which is great and as the post said before thats why K is who he is...i'll trust whomever he puts out there.

I still see Kyle at 3 though and am a little concerned now that I took a closer look at the bigs if we will be able to compete on the boards against some tougher teams. Then again may not have to worry since the ball will be always going through the hoop... ;)

I want to see Miles and Mason at the 4 & 5 postions also, but(key word) I can see some foul trouble coming if they don't improve in that area of play. We will be thin at those positions anyway. I'm hoping that Josh comes in ready to contribute and Ryan gains some strength. Those two things would be huge for us next year. Go Duke!

CDu
01-29-2010, 11:21 AM
Good research!I could see Duke with a small lineup at times with Kyrie, Nolan and Seth in the game pushing Kyle to the 4 but no way he posts anyone up. They will play the way Nova plays with their 3 guards. Their 4 is like Kyle (King), they get out and press and get up and down the court. Duke will go to that style next year with what they have. Mason and Ryan will need to come along with their dribbling drills this off season so they can play the 4 but I think they will be a transition team next year, and I mean "transition" team.

Singler will play predominantly on the perimeter no matter whether he plays the 3 or the 4. The distinction of 3 or 4 is primarily related to whom Singler will be guarding (and who will be guarding Singler) rather than the offensive role Singler will have. When Singler was playing the 4 and 5 last year, he still played predominantly on the perimeter offensively.

The only real question is whether we play three guys smaller than Singler or two guys bigger than Singler more often next year. And the answer to that question depends on the development of Dawkins, Kelly, and Mason as well as the readiness of Irving, Curry, Thornton, and Hairston (and any other recruits we may add between now and then).

I think ultimately he'll play 15 or so minutes at both spots.


I'm concerned that Dawkins might see less time next year. Kyrie is a top notch PG, Nolan is proving himself this year and Seth is lights out in practice. Listen to the announcers talk about watching their practice and Seth sounds like he could be their best player. If that is the case that pushes Kyle to the 4 and where does anyone else fit in. The only spot open is the 5 spot.

I wouldn't worry much about Dawkins. There'll be around 100 minutes available at the 1-3 spots on the floor for the five little guys, and around 100 minutes per game for the five bigger guys (including Singler and Hairston). I doubt we'll see a rotation that's terribly different than usual for Coach K (7 guys getting major minutes with 1-2 guys getting regular minutes as well. I'd imagine that one of the backcourt guys gets squeezed and either one of the frontcourt guys gets squeezed or two of the frontcourt guys split backup minutes. So if Dawkins is ready, I don't see why he couldn't get 20+ minutes per game next year.

Kfanarmy
01-29-2010, 11:29 AM
I don't think there is much debate either whether Kyrie will be the starting PG because I believe that's what the plan is. But I wouldn't be suprised to see Seth there either. As was said in earlier posts....word is that he's been playing PG in practice and has been playing very well. Coach K doesn't seem like the type of coach to just play Kyrie based on hype and potential. Key word is potential.

The defensive side of the game is likely to have significant impact on who starts...my guess is the year that SC has spent guarding his teammates in practice may have him further ahead on that end of the floor.

CDu
01-29-2010, 12:05 PM
I want to see Miles and Mason at the 4 & 5 postions also, but(key word) I can see some foul trouble coming if they don't improve in that area of play. We will be thin at those positions anyway. I'm hoping that Josh comes in ready to contribute and Ryan gains some strength. Those two things would be huge for us next year. Go Duke!

We're not going to be thin at the 4 next year. We'll have four guys capable of playing there. We'll be thin at the 5, where only the Plumlees are really suited to play there. But if Kelly gets bigger, he can fill in there in a pinch.

I think the Plumlees will spend most of their minutes next year subbing for each other because we lose a lot of depth at the 5 spot. I think the 4 spot will be filled by a combination of Singler (who may start there), Mason (who may also start there), Kelly, and Hairston. But the 4 spot is not one that I'm terribly concerned with.

Richard Berg
01-29-2010, 12:12 PM
Think of it this way: if Avery had stayed, would JWill have been the go-to PG in the fall of '99? Especially after we start the season 0-2 with lots of turnovers in his stat column? I don't think so. Similarly: would Paulus have played so many minutes as a frosh if Dockery had panned out as expected?

Of course, knowing what we know now, he would've been given the ball -- permanently -- before too long. Difference is, (a) our veteran guards aren't leaving (b) we don't actually know that Kyrie is the Second Coming of JWill, yet.

buckshot
01-29-2010, 12:14 PM
I think K should start Singler at the 1 next year! That or the 5. He is the most versatile player to ever play the game:rolleyes:

and maybe he could pull a Paulus and play QB for duke football in 2012!

Tim1515
01-29-2010, 12:28 PM
I think the "thought" of both Plumlee's starting next year is exciting for Duke fans...but i don't think it is the best plan for Duke's season unless it is short term.

Miles and Mason may be the only two player on our roster that can play center and both have the habit of picking up quick fouls. I know a lot of people are high on Hairston but i'm not sure he gets a ton of minutes as a freshman and even if he did...he's not a center. Kelly obviously isn't either.

I could see Duke starting Kyrie, Nolan (if he's still here), Kyle, Mason, Miles but having Miles or Mason be the first subs out and bringing in Seth or Andre while leaving Kyle at the 4.

BlueintheFace
01-29-2010, 12:45 PM
Not to be Jumbovian in my response, but I think we can mostly be sure that this is your opinion.:);):rolleyes:

Consider the contrary view:

1. Los Plum Locos seem almost certain to be in the starting lineup. I mean, is Mason the second coming of Christian Laettner or not? I think the upheaval on the DBR if we go with a small lineup out of the box is frightening to think about.

2. Don't you think Josh Hairston is going to get 10-15 mins. per game next year? He is a bruiser and will play the "4." Also Ryan Kelly will get a lot more time next year than this year, and if he and Kyle are on the court at the same time, Ryan will play the 4.

3. Kyle is the only guy on the roster next year between 6-4 and 6-9. And he is a very skilled and mobile player. If someone has to play the "wing position" [K hates position references], who the heck would it be?

4. For what you say to be true, assuming Kyle is on the court 35-40 mins. per game, then at least one-half the time Duke would have a three-guard lineup. Seems doubtful.

sagegrouse

Backcourt depth next year:

Irving
Thornton
Dawkins
Smith
Curry
Carrick Felix (Likely)
TBD 2nd wing (possible)

Frontcourt depth next year:

Plumlee
Plumlee
Hairston
Kelly

Quite frankly, we have seen this season how much more effective Kyle is at the 4. Additionally, Duke will need a lot more depth down low. Kelly is essentially SinglerII in terms of skillset and it makes almost no sense to put the two together on the floor as K has recognized and shown. Hairston is a freshman.

We will have so much quality and depth in the backcourt and so little quality depth in the frontcourt, so I will rephrase.

I will be SHOCKED if Kyle comes back and play a majority of his minutes at the 3.

Johnboy
01-29-2010, 12:46 PM
Miles and Mason may be the only two player on our roster that can play center and both have the habit of picking up quick fouls. I know a lot of people are high on Hairston but i'm not sure he gets a ton of minutes as a freshman and even if he did...he's not a center. Kelly obviously isn't either.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said, but from the portion of your post quoted above, and from some other posts in this thread, it rubs me the wrong way to project, from play as freshmen and sophomores, that players will continue to have foul problems throughout their careers. Some do, but most players want to play, and to do so, they learn how to play aggressively without fouling.

CDu
01-29-2010, 12:53 PM
I'm not disagreeing with anything you said, but from the portion of your post quoted above, and from some other posts in this thread, it rubs me the wrong way to project, from play as freshmen and sophomores, that players will continue to have foul problems throughout their careers. Some do, but most players want to play, and to do so, they learn how to play aggressively without fouling.

Miles had foul problems last year, and has foul problems (though to a less degree) this year. I do expect him to get better, but given that he's a post player (where fouls are somewhat inevitable) I don't anticipate he'll be a 30+ mpg guy. The same holds for Mason. I suspect that both will be 20-25 or 25-30 mpg guys. And since we need one of them on the floor for most if not all of the game, that means at more than half of the game they aren't on the floor together.

Tim1515
01-29-2010, 01:19 PM
Miles had foul problems last year, and has foul problems (though to a less degree) this year. I do expect him to get better, but given that he's a post player (where fouls are somewhat inevitable) I don't anticipate he'll be a 30+ mpg guy. The same holds for Mason. I suspect that both will be 20-25 or 25-30 mpg guys. And since we need one of them on the floor for most if not all of the game, that means at more than half of the game they aren't on the floor together.

Yeah that's basically my point. I do think there would be times they would play together and during those times we might play our best basketball...but the risk is too high that one or both get in foul trouble quick.

I kind of like the big offense...but if Irving and Curry are as talented as we hope we should be able to play a very effective offensive game going small.

Kedsy
01-29-2010, 01:42 PM
Yeah that's basically my point. I do think there would be times they would play together and during those times we might play our best basketball...but the risk is too high that one or both get in foul trouble quick.

I kind of like the big offense...but if Irving and Curry are as talented as we hope we should be able to play a very effective offensive game going small.

With Kyrie, Seth, Andre, and Nolan on our team (plus whatever additional athletic wing(s) we may recruit) we will be incredibly effective offensively by going small. So effective that it would surprise me if three of these four guys weren't on the floor together most of the time against teams we can guard that way.

In my opinion the only time we'll be going predominantly big would be against teams we just can't defend with three smallish guards. But I don't think there will be as many of those kinds of teams as many people seem to believe. I haven't studied it in detail, but Ga Tech, Wake, and UNC will all be getting smaller next year, and the rest of the league isn't that big to begin with. The only ACC team who will probably tower over us would be Florida State, although UNC might also be pretty big depending on whether Barnes is really 6'6" or 6'8". And I'll be surprised if we face more than one or two OOC teams who we can't match up with on the wing with a small lineup.

We're going to run a lot and get a lot of threes and a lot of dunks, and even if Kyle is guarding the other team's 4, he'll be playing like a 3 on offense. Assuming he's still here, of course.

-bdbd
01-29-2010, 01:48 PM
I think K should start Singler at the 1 next year! That or the 5. He is the most versatile player to ever play the game:rolleyes:

and maybe he could pull a Paulus and play QB for duke football in 2012!

Actually, Buckshot, as I recall Kyle actually DID play football and was highly regarded at it in High School in Oregon. Though we might actually need some (depth) help at QB next year, due to injuries, I recall KS playing more on the edge in High School (DE or TE). You can certainly see that toughness coming out at times. (Note: I'm not serious.)

I do think that, with slightly disappointing numbers this year Kyle might choose to stay another year - just saying his odds of staying have improved over the last two months. Though it still may be only 50/50 or worse. I hope he stays.

As for BlueintheFace's projected depth chart: Unless you have new info, I don't really see Felix as "likely" at the wing. I don't think he's even been offered. But wouldn't that be interesting if he and teammate Ndiaye (7'0" & 240 lbs) both came in a package deal... I see 6'5" Terrance Ross, who actually has an offer and has Josh Hairston whispering in his ear, as more likely - he certainly fills our void for an athletic, slashing wing who can score and play great D. My impression, though it could be wrong, was the next target would be TZ (Zeigler) 6'5" from Michigan would be the next choice to fill that Duke need next year. The 6'6" Felix seems more likely the NEXT option after that. My assumption has been that we only need one of these for next year, to penetrate and guard opponent's athletic wings, a la H. Barnes.

I fully expect us to generally "go small" next year, as K has said many times that he plays the 5 best players, with rare exceptions, regardless of position. I'm thinking a likey starting lineup might be:
PG - Irving
PG/2G - Curry
2G - Smith (or if Smith goes NBA you slide in Dawkins or Hairston or very possibly the frosh Wing - one of TR/TZ/Felix))
F - Singler (if he goes then we use Ryan, Hairston or MP)
F/C - MPI, MP2

Playing a three guard lineup, as dictated by our best 5 talents, also serves to help the depth issue among "bigs." (The 4 and 5 slots being split up among Singler, MP1&2, Hairston or Ryan. Though only the Plumlees would likely play Center, having other guys to play the 4 and 3 DOES "create" some depth for us at the 5.) I mean, how many Center-capable bigs do most teams have anyway?

Anybody think there's much chance we offer the big Mr. Ndiaye (injuries have made him a bit under the radar...)? The PAC-10 has eyes on him apparently.

Am really looking forward to a FUN style and speed of play next year, maybe more resembling Villanova than Kentucy or North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Hmmm.

:rolleyes: :) :D

jv001
01-29-2010, 01:53 PM
We're not going to be thin at the 4 next year. We'll have four guys capable of playing there. We'll be thin at the 5, where only the Plumlees are really suited to play there. But if Kelly gets bigger, he can fill in there in a pinch.

I think the Plumlees will spend most of their minutes next year subbing for each other because we lose a lot of depth at the 5 spot. I think the 4 spot will be filled by a combination of Singler (who may start there), Mason (who may also start there), Kelly, and Hairston. But the 4 spot is not one that I'm terribly concerned with.

The same point you make in that Mason and Miles will spend most of their minutes subbing for each other. Miles plays the 5 spot for almost all of his minutes so I guess you are correct that we're thinner at the 5 spot. At the 4 we have Kyle, Mason and Ryan. We don't know which position Hairston will best suited for. I think he may be used as Kyle was his freshmen year at the 5spot. I guess I should have said thin at the 4 but I think if the Plumlees foul like they have this year, we'll be thin at both positions. Go Duke!

MChambers
01-29-2010, 02:06 PM
Am really looking forward to a FUN style and speed of play next year, maybe more resembling Villanova than Kentucy or North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Hmmm.

How about resembling Duke 1991?

CDu
01-29-2010, 02:17 PM
The same point you make in that Mason and Miles will spend most of their minutes subbing for each other. Miles plays the 5 spot for almost all of his minutes so I guess you are correct that we're thinner at the 5 spot. At the 4 we have Kyle, Mason and Ryan. We don't know which position Hairston will best suited for. I think he may be used as Kyle was his freshmen year at the 5spot. I guess I should have said thin at the 4 but I think if the Plumlees foul like they have this year, we'll be thin at both positions. Go Duke!

I think we can expect improvement from the Plumlees with regards to fouls to the point that they'll combine for ~45-50 mpg, unless the other bigs are so far advanced that they overtake the Plumlees. That means we really only need around 30-35 mpg at the 4. Again, between Singler, Kelly, and Hairston. I don't think that'll be a problem.

I will agree that IF the Plumlees don't progress AND Kelly and Hairston aren't ready then we would be thin at the 4. But in that situation, we'd play Singler predominantly at the 4 and have a smaller lineup. So the 4 spot would still be fairly strong. I doubt this will be necessary though, and Singler will just split his time at the 3 and 4. I expect that at least two of the four other bigs besides Singler will be ready to contribute regularly next year, and another one will be ready to fill in for 10-15 mpg as necessary.

CDu
01-29-2010, 02:24 PM
I fully expect us to generally "go small" next year, as K has said many times that he plays the 5 best players, with rare exceptions, regardless of position. I'm thinking a likey starting lineup might be:
PG - Irving
PG/2G - Curry
2G - Smith (or if Smith goes NBA you slide in Dawkins or Hairston or very possibly the frosh Wing - one of TR/TZ/Felix))
F - Singler (if he goes then we use Ryan, Hairston or MP)
F/C - MPI, MP2

Playing a three guard lineup, as dictated by our best 5 talents, also serves to help the depth issue among "bigs." (The 4 and 5 slots being split up among Singler, MP1&2, Hairston or Ryan. Though only the Plumlees would likely play Center, having other guys to play the 4 and 3 DOES "create" some depth for us at the 5.) I mean, how many Center-capable bigs do most teams have anyway?

Am really looking forward to a FUN style and speed of play next year, maybe more resembling Villanova than Kentucy or North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Hmmm.

I think it will be very nice to return/continue with the "double lead guard" approach next year. In that scenario, we'd have Irving, Curry, and Smith rotating at the lead guard spots, and Dawkins and whomever we get playing most of the minutes at the 3.

Heck - even if we don't get another big wing, I could see this:

1/2: Irving/Curry/Smith (70-80 mpg), Thornton (the rest)
3: Dawkins (20 mpg), Singler (20 mpg)
4. Singler (15 mpg), Kelly/Hairston (20-25 mpg), Mason (0-5 mpg)
5. Plumlees (40 mpg)

If we do get another big, then it just adds depth and versatility. And it adds protection in case one or more of the youngsters (i.e., basically everyone but Singler and Smith) aren't ready.

dukeimac
01-29-2010, 04:00 PM
Lets dissect this.

Irving - suppose to be one of the best. A lot of hype, right or wrong but there is a lot of hype, almost as good as Wall. Do you think he will stick around for a second year if he doesn't get the playing time? I believe he does start at the PG next year.

Seth - suppose to be the best player Duke has. Can play the PG and SG and is good at both, that was proven last year. Bilas, Williams and Coach Knight all say he is lights out in practice.

Nolan - he has proven this year he is good at the SG and I don't think he will play much at the PG this year or next year.

Dawkins - a good SG. Hopefully he is coming around but the death of his sister, I think, has set him back and nobody can blame him or anyone for that.

Thorton - will ride the pine. I think he should re-shirt.

Thus, 4 good players at the PG and SG which leaves about 20 minutes for each. If Nolan gets more than 20 minutes (which he should) no way they stay with a 2 guard system. Who only plays for 10-15 minutes?

Kyle - as a SF, he is good to very good; depending on the injury. He is a 3 at the pro level so he needs to get very good to the best in this position.

Kelly - hopefully develops into a good role player next year and gets ready for a breakout season his junior year. He needs to and can learn a lot from Kyle the next two years.

Kyle gets at least 30 minutes at the 3 with Kelly and Dawkins getting the other time. But if Dawkins plays the 3 they get small and until Dawkins gets use to the SF position he won't be to effective. Kyle knows how to play taller than he is and Dawkins has not had that experience.

Mason - will be a good PF. Dribbles well.

Miles - will be a good post player. Needs to stay out of foul trouble which means he needs to improve his foot work. It amazes me to hear the reports come out of his play over the summer; people were impressed by his play. He is playing much better this year than last year but he is out of position a lot and that leads to many of his fouls. If he doesn't get better than this he will not be getting much more time than he is getting this year.

Hariston - I think can play the 4 and the 5. He reminds me of Sheldon Williams, in stature.

I don't see Kelly being physical enough to play the 4 so if anything Kyle will play the 4 and Ryan the 3.

After all this, I would bet that Duke plays with 3 guards next year most of the time.

Irving, Seth and Nolan with Kyle and Miles to start. Mason sees a lot of time but he is no post player. So if they play him at the post they will be a very illusive team and I could see them run A LOT with Mason at the post.

I don't think it will be Duke's defensive match ups that will determine things, that is not Coach K's MO. He likes to make other teams play to his team so I do see them playing small, much like NOVA and force the taller teams to come to them.

FYI, ACC is a "tall" conference this year. UNC, Wake, FSU, Maryland and GT. Should things not change much, teams will be getting bigger next year. FSU for example the other night played with a 7'1", 6'9" and 6'9" guy to start and they came of the bench with another 6"11" guy and they have 3 more guys coming in next year that are a 6'9" or taller. UNC is tall with Zeller, the Wears and Harrison plus another guy whose name doesn't come to me.

BlueintheFace
01-29-2010, 04:44 PM
Statement: Kyle is more effective at the 4. If he can play there he should.


Does anybody have a problem with this statement?

Kedsy
01-29-2010, 04:46 PM
Statement: Kyle is more effective at the 4. If he can play there he should.


Does anybody have a problem with this statement?

I obviously can't say with certainty, but I think Kyle and Coach K might.

Tim1515
01-29-2010, 04:46 PM
I hate when people compare Irving to Wall. They are basically exact opposites. Wall is an athletic freak who uses his raw speed, size and jumping ability to overwhelm most college players.

Basically...i would say Irving is a Jon Scheyer/Chris Paul mix. It is impossible to tell if he can be as good as Paul...because those are crazy high standards...but he has a similar game. He's not overly fast or athletic he just understands how to make plays with or without the ball.

CDu
01-29-2010, 04:55 PM
I obviously can't say with certainty, but I think Kyle and Coach K might.

They might disagree with the statement that Singler is more effective at the 4. Or maybe they they might just hope that it's not the case, given that the team needs him to play the 3 this year. It's hard to say which is really the case.

To this point though, Singler has been less efficient at the 3 this year than he was at the 4/5 the last two years. And that is despite what I'm sure are vast improvements in his game over the summer.

Kedsy
01-29-2010, 06:42 PM
Statement: Kyle is more effective at the 4. If he can play there he should.


Does anybody have a problem with this statement?


They might disagree with the statement that Singler is more effective at the 4. Or maybe they they might just hope that it's not the case, given that the team needs him to play the 3 this year. It's hard to say which is really the case.

To this point though, Singler has been less efficient at the 3 this year than he was at the 4/5 the last two years. And that is despite what I'm sure are vast improvements in his game over the summer.

I agree with you. And I agree if K and Kyle have a problem with the first part of BlueintheFace's statement it would be more on the order of wishful thinking. It's the second part of his statement (which I bolded) that I think both K and Kyle would take strong issue with.

miramar
01-29-2010, 08:09 PM
Lorenzo Perez has an article in the N&O on Coach K's radio interview with Dan Patrick. It sound like Coach K may be expecting Kyle back next year:

"When Patrick mentioned Duke junior Kyle Singler and raised a question whether there's a stigma attached to staying in school four years.

Krzyzewski said Singler's not a lottery pick "right now." He then brought up the example of Shane Battier, a four-year Duke player and 2001 consensus national player of the year who Krzyzewski believed went from a likely second-round pick after his junior season to the sixth overall pick in the 2001 draft."

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/duke/story/310694.html

sagegrouse
01-29-2010, 09:52 PM
Statement: Kyle is more effective at the 4. If he can play there he should.


Does anybody have a problem with this statement?

Oops, I am going to get a reputation for being cantankerous, but I chose my posting name with malice aforethought.;)

Kyle isn't quite in synch yet, and I am not willing to say he is better at the 4 than at the 3. But I, for one, don't want to see him assigned to guarding MacFarlane, Favors, Zeller (or the Wear twins) or the other big guys playing 4 in the ACC or elsewhere. There is no need for it.

But even if your first statement is true, that doesn't mean that this is the strongest lineup for Duke. I think next year, if everyone returns (Nolan is having a heck of a year), I would prefer to see Miles, Mason, Kyle, Nolan and Kyrie in the starting lineup. Given K's track record with Hurley, JWill and Paulus, I expect he will hand Kyrie the ball and say, "You're our point guard; get everyone else into the game."

I think we need to look for Mason to be a star next year. Everyone who has watched practices and whom I respect says he is the most talented guy on the team. Wouldn't it be great to have an offensive presence in the middle? Miles is starting this year; why should he sit next year, when he will be stronger and better? He will also be the enforcer on defense

Unlike this year, when two big guys come in at the 16:00 mark, Andre and Seth would be the first guys off the bench, substituting for a Plumlee and a guard. (Kyle hasn't sat in four years; why should next year be an exception?) Then everything after that is situational.

sagegrouse
'This is a fun discussion, but shouldn't it wait for May, after our championship celebrations is over?'

ACCBBallFan
01-29-2010, 10:44 PM
I don't think there is much debate either whether Kyrie will be the starting PG because I believe that's what the plan is. But I wouldn't be suprised to see Seth there either. As was said in earlier posts....word is that he's been playing PG in practice and has been playing very well. Coach K doesn't seem like the type of coach to just play Kyrie based on hype and potential. Key word is potential. I believe if come next year Seth is playing better than Kyrie which isn't impossible then he may be more ready to be our starting PG. I think Kyrie will be phenomenal and the probable starter but reality is he will have a learning curve and he also will be significantly behind Seth as he has been around and will have practiced for a full year.

Nolan is obviously our SG and I just think we absolutely have to have the Plumlees at 4 and 5. Either way I'm not concerned with whomever runs the PG or SG because thats the luxury we'll have being deep at these positions which is great and as the post said before thats why K is who he is...i'll trust whomever he puts out there.

I still see Kyle at 3 though and am a little concerned now that I took a closer look at the bigs if we will be able to compete on the boards against some tougher teams. Then again may not have to worry since the ball will be always going through the hoop... ;)Yes but Curry plays PG in practice out of necessity with Dawkins not a PG and Jordan not ACC caliber.

It is good experience for him to be Kyrie's backup along with Thornton next year, as well as Nolan's backup.

Agree with earlier poster that said Dawkins coud conceiveably play some 3 as well as Kelly. How many MPG will depend on whether Kyle returns or not, as well as how ready Hairston is to back up the Plumlees or who else comes on board at 3 -4 spot.

CDu
01-30-2010, 08:39 AM
I agree with you. And I agree if K and Kyle have a problem with the first part of BlueintheFace's statement it would be more on the order of wishful thinking. It's the second part of his statement (which I bolded) that I think both K and Kyle would take strong issue with.

I don't think there's that much to take issue with in that statement, though. Singler is averaging fewer points per shot this year than he did in either of his first two years. He's a slightly less efficient player this year to this point. I'm not saying he's not still an elite player. Just that his efficiency has gone down just a bit, in spite of the fact that I'm sure he's a much better overall player this year than last year.

Richard Berg
01-30-2010, 10:35 AM
Kelly is essentially SinglerII in terms of skillset
Wut?

Singler is a gritty ex-footballer who's banged with the biggest & best since Day One. He arrived on campus looking a little thin but nothing like Kelly, who's many many PB&J sandwiches (for those who remember their Shav history) from an ACC body. Singler-as-frosh was also a far more complete player; Kelly has shown virtually no inside game yet.


Mason sees a lot of time but he is no post player.
Hur?

He has the best post moves of anyone on the team.

devildeac
01-30-2010, 10:54 AM
Wut?

Singler is a gritty ex-footballer who's banged with the biggest & best since Day One. He arrived on campus looking a little thin but nothing like Kelly, who's many many PB&J sandwiches (for those who remember their Shav history) from an ACC body. Singler-as-frosh was also a far more complete player; Kelly has shown virtually no inside game yet.


Hur?

He has the best post moves of anyone on the team.

And wouldn't we all love to see a couple of the wide-open 3s that Mason has taken be good and make him even more of a threat to our opponents.

Troublemaker
01-30-2010, 11:44 AM
I agree with those that predicted Kyle would split time at the 3 and 4 next season if he's back. If Duke had the guard depth, he would probably be doing that this season as well.

I still, as of today, believe Kyle will break out soon and play at an extremely high level for the rest of the season and be Duke's leading scorer over that time period. Coach K still expects it to happen, Kyle still expects it to happen, and they're spending extra time together on it to make it happen. I.e. There's still too much positive-thinking and diligence coming from extremely successful people who have focused in on elevating Kyle's level of play for it not to happen eventually, imo.

I'm also reminded of Battier, when he was a junior, really breaking out in the second half of that season. The story of that 2000 team up to the midway point of the season had been the senior Cwell, who did eventually capture ACC POY, but by the end of the season, it was really Shane's team to carry. I don't think Singler is as good as Battier or can be as good as Battier, but there's some measure of precedence there to be hopeful that Singler can become a stud by the end of this season.

BlueintheFace
01-30-2010, 12:03 PM
Wut?

Singler is a gritty ex-footballer who's banged with the biggest & best since Day One. He arrived on campus looking a little thin but nothing like Kelly

Singler was listed at 200lb coming out of High School. Kelly at 205lb.


Singler-as-frosh was also a far more complete player;

No argument here, but that doesn't speak to skill set.


Kelly has shown virtually no inside game yet.

He hasn't been asked to. However, in high school he played down low and had a low post trick or two that he went to often. Both are tall wing forwards who can shoot the three or go into the post. Both prefer an outside-in game. Their skillsets are similar.

Richard Berg
01-30-2010, 01:59 PM
Singler was listed at 200lb coming out of High School. Kelly at 205lb.
Ok, I'll trust your numbers. Regardless, fact is Singler was defending ACC-level centers within a few months of arrival. True, this says more about the 2008 team's needs than of Singler's body type. But based on the defense I've seen Kelly play so far, I feel pretty certain he would not be able to handle that kind of responsibility.


No argument here, but that doesn't speak to skill set.
I guess we have different definitions of "skill set." When I play ball my job is usually to play hard D and camp out for baseline jumpshots, but that doesn't mean I have Bruce Bowen's skill set!

airowe
01-30-2010, 05:20 PM
Singler at the 4 next year?

Yes, please.

BlueintheFace
01-30-2010, 05:37 PM
Singler at the 4 next year?

Yes, please.

Yep. He is not a wing. I just can't come up for an argument for putting him at the three when we don't have to.

NYDukie
01-30-2010, 10:05 PM
Yep. He is not a wing. I just can't come up for an argument for putting him at the three when we don't have to.

Have to agree too. At the college level Kyle is best at the 4 as he is not quick enough to handle 3s or sometime's 2's as there are a decent amount of 3 guard lineups at this level. Kyle is strong enough to hold his own against those 4's who are elite and big. Unfortunately for Kyle I just don't see how his game will translate at the next level the more I see his game and think about it. He is a 3 1/2, too small to guard NBA 4's and not quick enough to guard NBA 3's. And if you watch some NBA 4's, Kyle still not be quick enough in some cases. I know some like to compare him to Shane but Shane at a better outside shot and had special set of skills that separated him from everyone else that was valued by NBA teams. Those skills being elite defense and leadership and that is where he makes his living. That said, I see Kyle at best being a late 1st rounder and that's not enough to throw ones self into the draft in my opinion. Things could change over the next 10-15 games but right now that is where Kyle stands. Expect him back as of now.