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Olympic Fan
01-28-2010, 01:05 PM
I happen to be a Durham native who understands and appreciates that Duke is not the only school in town with a great basketball history.

North Carolina Central, once coached by Hall of Famer John McLendon and featuring such stars as future NBA Hall of Famer Sam Jones, was a GREAT small college program, both in the NAIA and later in NCAA Division II (winning a national championship in 1988).

Unfortunately, the school decided to throw away that legacy and make the bid for the big money of Division 1. They moved up to Division 1 for the 2007-08 season and have -- so far -- been horrible ... maybe the worst D-1 program in the country over that time.

In their last three years, they've won six D-1 games -- none this year. Technically, they will be 4-18 going into Saturday's game at N.C. State, but the four wins were all over lower division schools. They are 0-18 vs. the Division 1 and have a 343 RPI.

What's even more notable is NCCU's futility against the ACC -- 0-9 so far with an average margin of defeat of 37 points. And it's getting worse -- NCCU lost three games by an average of 36 points in 2008; three games by an average of 37 points in 2009; and three games by an average of 39 points this season. The closest performance was a 75-58 loss to Wake in 2008 ... but that was just after their worst showing -- a 121-56 loss to Duke in the 2008 opener (which was the Division 1 debut for the Eagles).

So far this season, NCCU lost to UNC 89-42, to Miami 83-53 and to VPI 72-30. Last week, the Eagles played Savannah State and led 13-5 at the half! And lost 46-44 in overtime.

N.C. State is going to pound NCCU Saturday, but it could end up hurting the Pack's RPI. It's definitely going to hurt the ACC's overall RPI to play such a horrible team four times.

Just a couple of more RPI notes:

-- I noted a week or so ago that Northwestern and Army -- the two schools with the longest string of NCAA futility (neither has ever gotten a bid) were both in position to challenge for a bid this season. Unfortunatrely, both have slumped early in conference play. Northwestern is still 14-6 overall, but just 3-5 in the Big Ten and down in the 60s in the RPI. Army, which had the best RPI in the Patriot League in preseason, started 2-4 in the league and now has the league's fourth-best RPI. Their RPI doesn't matter -- they only get in by winning the Patriot Conference Tournament. It's just that their chances don't look as good today as they did a couple of weeks ago.

-- Arizona,which has the longest streak of consecutive NCAA appearances (25 straight ... although the 1999 appearance was vacated) is probably going to see that streak end this season. The Wildcats are 10-9 overall with an RPI in the 50s. But in the super-weak Pac 10, it's going to be hard to turn that into an at-large bid.

If their streak ends, that would leave Kansas (20 straight) with the only longer active streak of NCAA appearances than Duke (14 straight).

jimsumner
01-28-2010, 03:09 PM
If the weather turns sour, they could be playing in a nearly empty RBC.

du_bb1
01-28-2010, 03:15 PM
on a totally unrelated note---- Jim -looks like you almost had a lap full of seminole last night .. ? Singleton on the table !!

jimsumner
01-28-2010, 03:28 PM
I think it was Reid. The way we are packed in there, I didn't have much choice but to try and draw the charge. But my life did pass in front of my eyes.

Wildcat
01-28-2010, 10:45 PM
You can't truly appreciate NCCU with a post like that. They are transitioning from a DII conference that in no way compares to even a Mid Major DI school; and you expect them to compete against a top ten team in the country (Duke) Cmmon that's a joke! Give them time; they have a new coach, an abundance of pride, history and support. They'll get to where they need to be. Plus, when they played State last year; the game was close up until the 2nd half. Also on that note; they were only down by five or six points to Indiana this year at the half. Have a little more respect when you post about an HBCU! It might be a decent game

Give the Eagles a little more respect

oldnavy
01-29-2010, 06:40 AM
You can't truly appreciate NCCU with a post like that. They are transitioning from a DII conference that in no way compares to even a Mid Major DI school; and you expect them to compete against a top ten team in the country (Duke) Cmmon that's a joke! Give them time; they have a new coach, an abundance of pride, history and support. They'll get to where they need to be. Plus, when they played State last year; the game was close up until the 2nd half. Also on that note; they were only down by five or six points to Indiana this year at the half. Have a little more respect when you post about an HBCU! It might be a decent game

Give the Eagles a little more respect

Respect has to be earned. You cannot give respect. Olympic fan is not being disrespectful, he is being truthful. NCCU is a very bad D-I program at this point. They may very well “get the where they need to be”, whatever that means, but for now the facts speak for themselves. Also, why the need to interject the fact that NCCU is an HBCU? How is that relevant to how well they play D-I basketball?

Wildcat
01-29-2010, 01:23 PM
Respect has to be earned. You cannot give respect. Olympic fan is not being disrespectful, he is being truthful. NCCU is a very bad D-I program at this point. They may very well “get the where they need to be”, whatever that means, but for now the facts speak for themselves. Also, why the need to interject the fact that NCCU is an HBCU? How is that relevant to how well they play D-I basketball?

Wow. Quite a perspective. Thanks

davekay1971
01-29-2010, 01:58 PM
I've never understood the benefit of scheduling such a bunny in the middle of the ACC season. It's not going to benefit NCSU to pound NCCU. Might as well leave the slot blank in the schedule and get over some bumps and bruises and spend some practice time working out the offensive kinks that have led to long dry spells. State should have come into the year having some NCAA aspirations...so why not schedule the kind of opponent they might play in the first round to help their RPI and get some experience against decent caliber non-ACC competition (as they did with their game against Florida)? Playing cupcakes in the early season to try out different rotations and get the new guys some PT I get. Doing in late Jan/early Feb I don't understand.

BlueDevilCorvette!
01-29-2010, 02:57 PM
I attended NCCU for undergrad and the sentiments I have in addition to every other NCCU graduate I've spoken to is that NCCU should have stayed in the CIAA (for the record the student body didn't want to leave the CIAA but the board decided this). It hurts to see NCCU getting destroyed simply for the almighty dollar.

NCCU will be officially admitted into the MEAC Conference July 1, 2010 so at least NCCU will then have a conference home rather being independent. Hence NCCU should be able to compete with familiar foes Winston Salem State and North Carolina A&T.

I remember the good old days (in undergrad) when NCCU won the D-II national championship in 89. Duke had lost in the NCAAT but when NCCU won, a lot of Duke players came to NCCU's campus and partied with us. Now all that pride is slowly being replaced with sorrow as alumni watch the mighty Eagles become everyones cupcake game...all for the sake of the almighty dollar. Geez....

Wildcat
01-29-2010, 08:26 PM
I attended NCCU for undergrad and the sentiments I have in addition to every other NCCU graduate I've spoken to is that NCCU should have stayed in the CIAA (for the record the student body didn't want to leave the CIAA but the board decided this). It hurts to see NCCU getting destroyed simply for the almighty dollar.

NCCU will be officially admitted into the MEAC Conference July 1, 2010 so at least NCCU will then have a conference home rather being independent. Hence NCCU should be able to compete with familiar foes Winston Salem State and North Carolina A&T.

I remember the good old days (in undergrad) when NCCU won the D-II national championship in 89. Duke had lost in the NCAAT but when NCCU won, a lot of Duke players came to NCCU's campus and partied with us. Now all that pride is slowly being replaced with sorrow as alumni watch the mighty Eagles become everyones cupcake game...all for the sake of the almighty dollar. Geez....

NCCU is on the move. New coach, abundance of pride (something you seem to be missing) history, Durham community, tremendous legacy of struggle and great leadership, and a 1989 NCAA Championship for posterity. Quite a story in my book, and you despise a program that wants to move up to higher heights. Maybe you are fearful of what they could become. But then again, that wouldn't make sense because: you are an alumnus. Pleeez

allenmurray
01-29-2010, 09:14 PM
NCCU is on the move. New coach, abundance of pride (something you seem to be missing) history, Durham community, tremendous legacy of struggle and great leadership, and a 1989 NCAA Championship for posterity. Quite a story in my book, and you despise a program that wants to move up to higher heights. Maybe you are fearful of what they could become. But then again, that wouldn't make sense because: you are an alumnus. Pleeez

Just because someone believes their your alma mater would have been better off to stay in a lower division doesn't mean they "despise" them. Athletics is only one part of a college experience. Not every school has to be DI.

Wanting your alma mater to stay focused on things other than DI athletics is not always a bad thing. There are a lot of very good colleges and universities who compete below the DI level, have athletic and academic programs they are proud of, don't aspire to a higher level of athletics, and have supportive alumni.

Wildcat
01-29-2010, 09:42 PM
Just because someone believes their your alma mater would have been better off to stay in a lower division doesn't mean they "despise" them. Athletics is only one part of a college experience. Not every school has to be DI.

Wanting your alma mater to stay focused on things other than DI athletics is not always a bad thing. There are a lot of very good colleges and universities who compete below the DI level, have athletic and academic programs they are proud of, don't aspire to a higher level of athletics, and have supportive alumni.

It was the perceived tone that I was in disagreement with. You're right because athletics at an HBCU pales in comparison to the experience, the legacy, trainning, family, culture and history of many of our institutions. But wanting to compete at a higher level is admirable and a clear sign of envisioning. If they get pounded for the next ten years and look bad in the process; then maybe I'll reassess this move to DI. Until then; Go DukeEagles!

oldnavy
01-30-2010, 07:40 AM
I attended NCCU for undergrad and the sentiments I have in addition to every other NCCU graduate I've spoken to is that NCCU should have stayed in the CIAA (for the record the student body didn't want to leave the CIAA but the board decided this). It hurts to see NCCU getting destroyed simply for the almighty dollar.

NCCU will be officially admitted into the MEAC Conference July 1, 2010 so at least NCCU will then have a conference home rather being independent. Hence NCCU should be able to compete with familiar foes Winston Salem State and North Carolina A&T.

I remember the good old days (in undergrad) when NCCU won the D-II national championship in 89. Duke had lost in the NCAAT but when NCCU won, a lot of Duke players came to NCCU's campus and partied with us. Now all that pride is slowly being replaced with sorrow as alumni watch the mighty Eagles become everyones cupcake game...all for the sake of the almighty dollar. Geez....

I think that NCCU will or at least will have the potential to become very competitive in the MEAC. So from a stand point of moving up to the D-I level, they may become competitive within their conference. But I do not think that it would be reasonable to expect that they compete on the national level as a D-I school. So, was the move worth it or not? It is not for me to say. Is it better to be a big fish in a little pond or a little fish in a big pond? They can continue to be an important part of the Durham community, and a factor in the MEAC, but I think it is safe to say the days of national championships and national relevance in basketball are over for NCCU, and that may make some folks sad...

BlueDevilCorvette!
01-30-2010, 07:50 AM
NCCU is on the move. New coach, abundance of pride (something you seem to be missing) history, Durham community, tremendous legacy of struggle and great leadership, and a 1989 NCAA Championship for posterity. Quite a story in my book, and you despise a program that wants to move up to higher heights. Maybe you are fearful of what they could become. But then again, that wouldn't make sense because: you are an alumnus. Pleeez

Wildcat, what's this perceived tone that you disagree with? Where in my original post did I ever say I despise NCCU? I simply stated how I wish NCCU was still part of the CIAA. How can I despise a university I support annually with donations so other students can attend NCCU; how can I despise a university that I actually allot several weeks each year to teach in the Health Sciences Dept.; how can I despise a university that I eagerly accept 2-3 senior interns each year to train within my profession?

You, Wildcat, appear ready to attack anyone who has anything you "perceive" as negative towards NCCU. However, I remain steadfast by my previous statement, it is indeed sad to watch NCCU beat into submission by any team, D-1 or otherwise. On 1-18-10 NCCU played Virginia Tech and lost 72-30 and the score was 30-8 at halftime (yes 8). I have Eagle Pride and it literally hurt to see NCCU losing with scores like this. Yes, perhaps in the distant future NCCU will be competitive but this transition period is agonizing. Nonetheless, this is my opinion and I'm sticking to it and you can "perceive" this any way you like.

oldnavy
01-30-2010, 08:13 AM
NCCU is on the move. New coach, abundance of pride (something you seem to be missing) history, Durham community, tremendous legacy of struggle and great leadership, and a 1989 NCAA Championship for posterity. Quite a story in my book, and you despise a program that wants to move up to higher heights. Maybe you are fearful of what they could become. But then again, that wouldn't make sense because: you are an alumnus. Pleeez

What is that supposed to mean? I get the sense that you are in some subtle way trying to interject racism into this conversation about competitiveness at the D-I basketball level. The other comment in a previous post was about not respecting a HBCU...

Do you have an agenda here or do you truly want to discuss NCCU's ability to compete at the D-I level?

sagegrouse
01-30-2010, 09:40 AM
Is Central is moving from the CIAA to the MEAC? NCCU is not listed as a member of either conference, and I couldn't find any information on the relevant Web sites.

sagegrouse

oldnavy
01-30-2010, 11:14 AM
Is Central is moving from the CIAA to the MEAC? NCCU is not listed as a member of either conference, and I couldn't find any information on the relevant Web sites.

sagegrouse

I believe NCCU had to leave the CIAA once they went to D-I. They are going to join the MEAC. http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2009/09/07/daily42.html

Olympic Fan
01-30-2010, 11:32 AM
Is Central is moving from the CIAA to the MEAC? NCCU is not listed as a member of either conference, and I couldn't find any information on the relevant Web sites.

sagegrouse

Sage, Bluedevilcorvette had it right -- NCCU will become a member of the MEAC this summer. The CIAA is a Division II conference -- Central had to leave when they moved to Division I. They've been an independent for the last three seasons.

Joining the MEAC ought to help -- at least then they will have a path to the NCAA Tournament. Three of their six Division 1 wins in the last three years have been vs. MEAC members. They'll have to get better to compete for the MEAC title, but it's not a huge jump -- not anywhere near the jump they'll have to make to become an NCAA at-large contender.

As to the wisdom of the move ... well, I'm not a NCCU grad, so maybe my opinion doesn't count. But I've long been a fan of the team and the program and as a "subway alum" (it sounds better than Walmart fan) I think the school would have been better remaining in the CIAA -- Central was a founding member of that historic conference and has traditionally been one of the league's powers. The CIAA Tournament is as big an event in the African-American community as the ACC Tournament is to the rest of Tobacco Road and NCCU was always a big part of that.

The school gave up a lot of identity to move up from Division II -- what's wrong with being a Division II power?

I can understand the temptation. Not only the money, but the fact that ancient rivals North Carolina A&T and Winston-Salem State had made the jump. But while I think that in the long term, NCCU will be competitite in the MEAC, that still makes them a pretty small fish in the Division I pond -- when was the last time a MEAC school made a real national impact (Coppin State in 1997? Hampton in 2002?).

And for the short term, my original point stands. NCCU is at this moment just about the weakest program in Division I and scheduling them is a blow to the RPI of N.C. State and the ACC.

Indoor66
01-30-2010, 11:42 AM
And for the short term, my original point stands. NCCU is at this moment just about the weakest program in Division I and scheduling them is a blow to the RPI of N.C. State and the ACC.

Not every scheduling decision has to be self serving. I am pleased that NCCU gets to play ACC teams. It is a boost to their program - through $ payoff and through exposure. On top of that, it is the right thing for the NC schools to do. NCCU is part of the UNC system and deserves the support of sister institutions as well as support from Duke and Wake.

Wildcat
01-30-2010, 11:52 AM
What is that supposed to mean? I get the sense that you are in some subtle way trying to interject racism into this conversation about competitiveness at the D-I basketball level. The other comment in a previous post was about not respecting a HBCU...

Do you have an agenda here or do you truly want to discuss NCCU's ability to compete at the D-I level?

My sentiments were not meant to inflame, incite, or interject any isms into this robust and relevant conversation. I have no agenda; I also concur that some in the NCCU community do prefer the "big fish, little pond," rather than the "little fish big pond" point of view. (Albeit, most of those who prefer the latter are a small contingent of alumni; not students) THE FACTS are: NCCU has tremendous pride, history, community, family, and legacy as its distinct place within the HBCU community. (that's fact)

And with this "pride of self," I see this move as simply another step for a athletic program that wants to present themselves to a larger audience. That's it. If they (NCCU) start to look like "a very bad program," terrible leadership, classless, unsportsmanlike and totally non-competitive; then I'll reassess the aforementioned views. But naa, no isms, no agenda, just perspective from a wanna-be, life-long, psuedo-sports historian.

oldnavy
01-30-2010, 12:26 PM
My sentiments were not meant to inflame, incite, or interject any isms into this robust and relevant conversation. I have no agenda; I also concur that some in the NCCU community do prefer the "big fish, little pond," rather than the "little fish big pond" point of view. (Albeit, most of those who prefer the latter are a small contingent of alumni; not students) THE FACTS are: NCCU has tremendous pride, history, community, family, and legacy as its distinct place within the HBCU community. (that's fact)

And with this "pride of self," I see this move as simply another step for a athletic program that wants to present themselves to a larger audience. That's it. If they (NCCU) start to look like "a very bad program," terrible leadership, classless, unsportsmanlike and totally non-competitive; then I'll reassess the aforementioned views. But naa, no isms, no agenda, just perspective from a wanna-be, life-long, psuedo-sports historian.

Well Ok, but what did you mean by the statement, "Maybe you are afraid of what they will become"? What is there to be afraid of? The question itself is accusatory in nature and tone, implying that someone would rather hold down the HBCU institution. Couple that with your statement that impled that simply stating facts about wins and losses somehow "dissrespects" an HBCU and, well it comes across sounding like race baiting. I am just trying to understand where you are coming from that’s all.

NCCU as of right now is a very bad D-I program in terms of competitiveness. There is no way to sugar coat that. I apologize if I came off as being judgmental about the character of the program or its members. I was in no way attempting to say that the people in the program are "bad". I do not know the people at NCCU, but I have no reason to think that they are anything but honorable, and very capable.

Wildcat
01-30-2010, 01:06 PM
Well Ok, but what did you mean by the statement, "Maybe you are afraid of what they will become"? What is there to be afraid of? The question itself is accusatory in nature and tone, implying that someone would rather hold down the HBCU institution. Couple that with your statement that impled that simply stating facts about wins and losses somehow "dissrespects" an HBCU and, well it comes across sounding like race baiting. I am just trying to understand where you are coming from that’s all.

NCCU as of right now is a very bad D-I program in terms of competitiveness. There is no way to sugar coat that. I apologize if I came off as being judgmental about the character of the program or its members. I was in no way attempting to say that the people in the program are "bad". I do not know the people at NCCU, but I have no reason to think that they are anything but honorable, and very capable.

Bad phrasing on my part; and yes could be interpreted as baiting. Not my intent. I totally respect your analysis concerning their move to DI and their lack of competitiveness thus far.

SupaDave
01-30-2010, 01:58 PM
Bad phrasing on my part; and yes could be interpreted as baiting. Not my intent. I totally respect your analysis concerning their move to DI and their lack of competitiveness thus far.

Give them some time!!! Sheesh. Just about every program goes through some growing pains. Remember when Marshall was gonna tear the world up?

NCCU will get their moment. Hopefully just like another MEAC member - Hampton University who took it to the Tarheels.