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View Full Version : Coach K thinks players should be able to go straight to NBA



flyingdutchdevil
01-28-2010, 11:50 AM
Nothing new - Coach K on the Dan Patrick show:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/95361/index.html?eref=sihp

SoCalDukeFan
01-28-2010, 02:39 PM
IMHO K is absolutely right on both counts.

Kids should be able to go straight to the NBA out of high school if they wish.
Kids who go to college should take it seriously.

The current system helps the NBA. It gives them a year to evaluate players against college players. Television promotes the players for them.

The NCAA acts like they are powerless to deal with the NBA. Personally I would like see freshmen not be eligible for varsity play. Won't happen.

SoCal

moonpie23
01-28-2010, 02:53 PM
if they really wanted to protect the over-zeaolus gm's and owners about the talent coming out of high school, they would use the D-league to not only flush out the hot's and not's, but to stimulate the game itself .....the D-league would actually be more like the baseball minors..


imagine kobe, kg, kwame, john wall, derrick rose and all those one-and-dones playing in the D-league for the year.....how many folks would go to a Toro's game if John wall were on the team?



these guys aren't college students.....they're pros and shouldn't be made to go to school ( or do anything ELSE other than basketball) for a year...

that, or just let em go to the pros as soon as they're 18.....

Bob Green
01-28-2010, 03:06 PM
Perhaps I am off base here but wasn't the Player's Union behind the decision to impose an age restriction on entering the NBA Draft? In the grand scheme of things who loses when six or eight high school phenoms go straight to the NBA? The six or eight veteran players trying to hang on for one more year in order to put away some cash (or more cash) who ultimately are not resigned.

I do not believe the owners and general managers are the bad guys re the "one and done" situation.

stillcrazie
01-28-2010, 03:07 PM
Who's calling the shots, the NCAA or the NBA?

Duvall
01-28-2010, 03:10 PM
Who's calling the shots, the NCAA or the NBA?

When it comes to eligibility for the NBA draft? The NBA.

stillcrazie
01-28-2010, 03:19 PM
When it comes to eligibility for the NBA draft? The NBA.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if the NCAA was involved as well, or if they were somehow in cahoots with the NBA on this.

jimsumner
01-28-2010, 03:20 PM
I'm amazed at the number of folks who think the NCAA can somehow compel players to stay in college. Google Spencer Haywood.

The NBA can limit access only as part of a Collective Bargaining Agreement between management and labor. The NBA and the Players Association will make a change when and if they think it is in their best interests to do so. They could not care less what college basketball fans want.

The NCAA could make freshmen ineligible. Theoretically. I could win the Boston Marathon this April. Theoretically.

Matches
01-28-2010, 03:28 PM
Totally agree with K. I don't begrudge anyone pursuing their career right out of high school if they're able. College isn't for everyone. But if we're going to continue with the conceit that these players are students working toward degrees, they need to be meaningfully involved in the college experience. That doesn't happen with the one-and-dones; they can literally stop going to class at all after one semester.

Personally I'm a fan of the way baseball does it - kids are eligible for the draft right out of HS but if they go to college they have to stay 3 years.

Duvall
01-28-2010, 03:29 PM
Perhaps I am off base here but wasn't the Player's Union behind the decision to impose an age restriction on entering the NBA Draft? In the grand scheme of things who loses when six or eight high school phenoms go straight to the NBA? The six or eight veteran players trying to hang on for one more year in order to put away some cash (or more cash) who ultimately are not resigned.

I do not believe the owners and general managers are the bad guys re the "one and done" situation.

"Bad guys" is a strong word, but it's not my recollection that the NBPA was the driving force behind the rule. They did agree to it for the reason you mentioned, but as I recall David Stern was the one who pushed for it. Either way, it's the teams that benefit more from getting a chance to evaluate HS players for a year to separate the Kevin Durants from the Kwame Browns.

Bob Green
01-28-2010, 03:37 PM
"Bad guys" is a strong word...

Yeah, I probably should have phrased that differently, but from my "the World revolves around college basketball" viewpoint it seemed appropriate.

airowe
01-28-2010, 05:18 PM
I agree with K and Dan here. Not sure if this was included in the link, but Dan said these kids could "accidentally get an education (while in college for more than a year) and that's a good thing for everyone. I like their idea to provide some sort of evaluation process (if you can be drafted out of high school in the first round you should be able to go.). I'd add that if you were drafted, the money had to be guaranteed for 3 years so the player could have a fallback and actually be able to afford to go to college (or start a business) if things didn't work out after that period.

Where the idea gets confusing is what kind of guarantee is their that these kids would actually be drafted in the first round if they were told that they would be. Say a kid is projected to be in the bottom five slots of the first round but the team(s) that made it known they would be taking this kid traded their pick for future draft picks? What if the kid doesn't fit with another team and therefore goes undrafted? I believe these High Schoolers should be allowed to go through the draft process, and if undrafted able to remain eligible for college athletics. Of course, they couldn't sign with an agent, maybe an advisory board would consult between the team and the player?

There will obviously be inherent risks that the kid and his family would have to consider (injury, behavior issues, NBA contraction, work stoppage, new and better talent to replace them) and they should have to bear some of the consequences from these risks, but the respective NBA team should bear most of them if they are willing to reach on a kid out of High School.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that something like this could happen, but there are a lot of parties which would have to agree with it. The NBPA being the major party.

Seems like the players already in the league would benfit greatly from such a rule as it would lengthen their careers and the incoming players would have some certainty of employment.

One question though. Say this rule was already in place and a player was forced to stay in college for 3 years because he wasn't talented enough or didn't have enough glaring potential to be drafted. And say this player gets hurt in year 2 of NCAA ball. Not just hurt, but a career ending injury. Who would be responsible for this player's future professional earnings? I could see some litigious opportunities there for a youngster who was not able to be drafted after his first year in college ball.

roywhite
01-28-2010, 05:39 PM
if they really wanted to protect the over-zeaolus gm's and owners about the talent coming out of high school, they would use the D-league to not only flush out the hot's and not's, but to stimulate the game itself .....the D-league would actually be more like the baseball minors..

imagine kobe, kg, kwame, john wall, derrick rose and all those one-and-dones playing in the D-league for the year.....how many folks would go to a Toro's game if John wall were on the team?



Would as many people go to see John Wall's D-league team play as now watch the University of Kentucky play?

Perhaps because, unlike major league baseball, pro basketball evolved without a strong minor league system, there are more economic issues here. Is the D-league going to attract fans and sponsors?

I personally would much rather root for Duke than for the Raleigh--Durham Inter-nets or some such organization, even if that professional minor league team had better talent. So perhaps the NBA pays a heavy subsidy to the minor league teams?

I agree with Coach K and most of the posters here, but I don't see an easy solution.

77devil
01-28-2010, 06:16 PM
Theoretically. I could win the Boston Marathon this April. Theoretically.

No offense Jim, but I don't think this is even a theoretical prospect.;) Just sayin'.

It's no surprise that K supports direct entry to the NBA. Duke generally is not in the market for the one and done players. Duke's competitiveness should be enhanced if other teams did not have these players on their roster.

jimsumner
01-28-2010, 06:19 PM
Well, Devil, I will have to start training. :)

phaedrus
01-28-2010, 06:49 PM
David Falk came and spoke at Duke yesterday. He said he was in favor of a three-year college requirement, which he argued for to the NBA PA, making the point (that was also made above) that it's players on the tail end of their careers who are being hurt by early-entry. He pointed out that it was the NFL's players union that was the driving force for football's three-year college requirement, which works fairly well.

phaedrus
01-28-2010, 06:52 PM
Either way, it's the teams that benefit more from getting a chance to evaluate HS players for a year to separate the Kevin Durants from the Kwame Browns.

Well, anyone with a decent basketball mind could have separated Kevin Durant from Kwame Brown. ;)

airowe
01-28-2010, 07:14 PM
David Falk came and spoke at Duke yesterday. He said he was in favor of a three-year college requirement, which he argued for to the NBA PA, making the point (that was also made above) that it's players on the tail end of their careers who are being hurt by early-entry. He pointed out that it was the NFL's players union that was the driving force for football's three-year college requirement, which works fairly well.

I didn't realize it during the game but I was sitting directly behind Mr. Falk during the game. I don't think his wife appreciated my boisterous cheers and yells at the refs, hope I didn't ruin any of our players' chances at the League ;)

phaedrus
01-28-2010, 09:02 PM
I didn't realize it during the game but I was sitting directly behind Mr. Falk during the game. I don't think his wife appreciated my boisterous cheers and yells at the refs, hope I didn't ruin any of our players' chances at the League ;)

Mr. Falk, former agent of Michael Jordan, also said we students were lucky because Duke was "probably the best basketball program in the country". He didn't happen to mention that we were a program in decline or that we had been surpassed by Carolina.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-28-2010, 09:23 PM
IMO, an 18 year old should be able to sell his talent to the highest bidder, if he choses, no matter what that talent is, software engineering ...hoops...whatever.

For a young guy to be denied opportunity because a less talented/less coveted union guy wants to protect his cash cow, after collecting millions for years is crazy unfair, and just plain wrong.

Let the NBA sign a kid to a deal and send him to school to develop, or the D league, if they wish to gamble a draft pick to lock him up with a contract. Put the money in trust, pay the scholorship, he lives as a student.

They can only call them up after the school year is complete. If they don't like that, send them to the D league for development.

The NCAA can demand the player has to attend class and meet min requirements, the NCAA can limit each school to a max of two "pro scholarship" players per team to prevent stacking.

The schools save a couple of scholarships for other students, still get to take advantage of the players talent/skill for their $ gains.

Playes get paid what they should.

NBA takes the $ risk on the players evaluation, as they should, without the expense of marketing the player that the NCAA provides during a long season.

The NBA seniors might get an extra year or two before losing their job if the NBA is allowed to send a kid to school.

Everybody wins.

DukeBlueNikeShox
01-28-2010, 11:23 PM
One of my favorite sayings is: "The Golden Rule in life is 'He who has the gold makes the rules...' " This is applies perfectly to the NBA. It's a private business, and if this is the rule they desire to implement, then that's their perrogative. Furthermore, it's not like the NBA is the only professional basketball league in the world. If players don't want to go to college (or high school), then they can go to Europe or Asia and play professionally.

Rather than complaining about the 1 year rule, why aren't coaches, K included, advocating for kids to go to Europe or Asia for a year?!

moonpie23
01-29-2010, 06:41 AM
It's a private business, and if this is the rule they desire to implement, then that's their perrogative. If players don't want to go to college (or high school), then they can go to Europe or Asia and play professionally.

Rather than complaining about the 1 year rule, why aren't coaches, K included, advocating for kids to go to Europe or Asia for a year?!


well, true....but i think that the nba is missing out on a great opportunity to have a much more exciting D-league here in the states.

Kids str8 outta high school MIGHT have more problems emotionally and socially dealing with europe or asia rather than a stateside first couple of years as a "pro".... remember, it's going to be considerably different way of life from high school to pro team.

and i WOULD go see D-league more if there were more "stars" on the roster. there would be a TON more hype surrounding the players, teams and matchups...

UrinalCake
01-29-2010, 07:29 AM
My somewhat idealistic solution to this problem is to find a way to increase the academic requirements of the athletes, at least to the point that they are in line with the academics of the general population of the school. This would force kids who really have no interest in going to class into one of the other alternative like playing in Europe or the D-League (if the NBA allowed it). Of course, I have no idea how you could enforce such a rule.

Richard Berg
01-29-2010, 10:49 AM
I believe these High Schoolers should be allowed to go through the draft process, and if undrafted able to remain eligible for college athletics. Of course, they couldn't sign with an agent...
Why not? The purist notion of an "amateur athlete" is decades out of date. (If it was ever true at all...you could make a reasonable argument that we were lying to ourselves the whole time it was in fashion.) The Olympics gave up on it long ago, and even snooty niches like golf don't treat the U.S. Amateur Open like a true major tourney anymore.

If I go to college on a Creative Writing scholarship, should submitting a piece to Harpers get my admission revoked? If I'm there on a music scholarship, should I be barred from accepting gigs? Sheer lunacy. If anything, many schools (especially in engineering) now require internships.

I'll grant the situations are not 100% analogous: you can't get a B.S. in basketball at Duke, nor should we start offering one. But I fail to see why that matters.


My somewhat idealistic solution to this problem is to find a way to increase the academic requirements of the athletes, at least to the point that they are in line with the academics of the general population of the school. This would force kids who really have no interest in going to class into one of the other alternative like playing in Europe or the D-League (if the NBA allowed it). Of course, I have no idea how you could enforce such a rule.
The Ivy League does it. I wouldn't mind seeing the ACC and other big name conferences adopt something similar. But it's not strictly necessary to combat the problems we're talking about here.*

Better, IMO, would be tightening the requirements for maintaining athletic eligibility while in school. If guys like Sean Dockery barely made the grade in HS but passed Duke's rigorous courseload, more power to them. By contrast, it would benefit both the collegiate system (whose mission is to educate, after all) as well as the level of fair competition if the NCAA cracked down on places where you can get D's in basket-weaving every semester without threatening your football career.

*To be sure, it would still be helpful in other ways. E.g. reducing the # of applicants who'd otherwise meet the bar, but whose spot was taken by an underqualified athlete.