MBB: Duke-Clemson Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[sagegrouse]

Here is a thread for the Clemson game.

I have two questions, one of which is rhetorical:

1. Do you think Trevor Booker is licking his chops after seeing what Tracy Smith did to Duke last night?

2. Given K's unhappiness with the effort, will there be a shakeup in the starting lineup?

sagegrouse
'In 2005, after a loss to VT away, Coach said he was "feeling numb" with the lack of effort the team showed. The next game against Wake, he started Patrick Davidson, Patrick Johnson, and Reggie Love (now the keeper of the holy Blackberry) along with JJ and Shelden. To this day, Chris Paul believes that K sent Patrick Davidson out to pick a fight and get him tossed. It wasn't true, but it worked for me! BTW Duke won 102-92.'

[duke4life32182]

I imagine Booker is drooling thinking about Saturday. I think K needs to do something to shake the boys up. It usually happens once a year, why not try it now.

[KyDevilinIL]

1. Yes. Not just because of what Smith did, but also because of what Duke did against him only weeks ago.

2. Who knows. The Big 3 are locks to start. Maybe there's some shuffling of the bigs, but aside from possibly sending a psychological message, any benefit from that will probably be negligible.

I said it before the NC State game, and it's even more true today. Job one is to win a true road game. Until we do, we haven't, and the longer this goes the bigger the problem gets. Job two is to not look horrible again. All other items are Priority No. 3.

I immediately thought last night that losing at NC State was the best possible scenario in regard to winning at Clemson. This morning I'm not so sure. I've got a feeling we're going down again. But I've been wrong a lot this season.

[CDu]

Here is a thread for the Clemson game.

I have two questions, one of which is rhetorical:

1. Do you think Trevor Booker is licking his chops after seeing what Tracy Smith did to Duke last night?

2. Given K's unhappiness with the effort, will there be a shakeup in the starting lineup?

sagegrouse
'In 2005, after a loss to VT away, Coach said he was "feeling numb" with the lack of effort the team showed. The next game against Wake, he started Patrick Davidson, Patrick Johnson, and Reggie Love (now the keeper of the holy Blackberry) along with JJ and Shelden. To this day, Chris Paul believes that K sent Patrick Davidson out to pick a fight and get him tossed. It wasn't true, but it worked for me! BTW Duke won 102-92.'

1. Yes. He's had monster games against Duke at home previously. If they can get him the ball, I can certainly see him repeating that. It goes without saying that limiting his touches is a key, because aside from him Clemson's half-court offense is limited mainly to chucking up 3s.
2. Aside from benching Plumlee, I don't know what he can really do to shake things up. He's not benching any of the big three (nor should he), and Thomas already starts. I also don't know what rotating in a different starting big would do, considering that they rotate so frequently anyway.

It'll be a good test. Clemson is a feast-or-famine team. They feed off the press and score points in bunches. But if they can't turn you over, they tend to struggle in the half court. If we can do a good job against their pressure and if we can do a reasonable job of minimizing Booker again, we should be able to win against them. But no team in the ACC seems to ride so much on their confidence level as Clemson. If they smell blood in the water, they can turn the game ugly quickly.

They play a very different style than State, and hopefully that bodes well. I do feel like some of the problems against State were related to their style (4-out, 1-in, with a really good big man and two guards who penetrated well) as well as some fantastic outside shooting. We won't see that same style from Clemson.

I really hope we can get over the road bugaboo and get rid of that 0 in the road win column. It would be a huge boost for the team's confidence.

[Kedsy]

Here is a thread for the Clemson game.

I have two questions, one of which is rhetorical:

1. Do you think Trevor Booker is licking his chops after seeing what Tracy Smith did to Duke last night?

2. Given K's unhappiness with the effort, will there be a shakeup in the starting lineup?

sagegrouse
'In 2005, after a loss to VT away, Coach said he was "feeling numb" with the lack of effort the team showed. The next game against Wake, he started Patrick Davidson, Patrick Johnson, and Reggie Love (now the keeper of the holy Blackberry) along with JJ and Shelden. To this day, Chris Paul believes that K sent Patrick Davidson out to pick a fight and get him tossed. It wasn't true, but it worked for me! BTW Duke won 102-92.'

The problem with doing something like this is I thought Lance did show a lot of effort against State (whether you thought he played well or not), so if you're locked into the Big Three, the only starting player who might be in jeopardy is Miles, and benching him alone would (a) not be much of a shakeup; and (b) might damage his confidence rather than light a fire under him.

Therefore, if K is going to shake it up, in my opinion he'd have to bench everyone. Or everyone except Jon -- we'd need someone to handle the ball. What would that lineup look like? Well, either we'd be sending walk-ons out there, or it would be Jon, Andre, Ryan, MP1, and Z. Are either of those options a good idea against Clemson's press? I wouldn't think so.

So I guess what I'm saying is, in this particular game with this particular team, I think the option to use that particular motivating device is limited.

[YourLandlord]

uh, we already played Clemson guys. Why is everyone talking about how Booker is going to go nuts?

[Duvall]

uh, we already played Clemson guys. Why is everyone talking about how Booker is going to go nuts?

Well, Duke does have to play them again. I blame expansion.

Yes, Duke was able to keep him in check two weeks ago, but that ignores all the other times he has faced Duke. It's at least an open question.

[YourLandlord]

Well, Duke does have to play them again. I blame expansion.

Yes, Duke was able to keep him in check two weeks ago, but that ignores all the other times he has faced Duke. It's at least an open question.

All the other times are fairly irrelevant, as he'll be playing against the specific players and team that shut him down just a short time ago.

edit: that being said, I'm sure Clemson will make adjustments as will Duke, and he is more likely to perform to his season average than in his last game.

I was simply struck by the comments above about Booker licking his chops/being excited to play Duke...it was as if they didn't realize we already played them.

[jipops]

We only forced State into 9 turnovers last night. That simply must change when we go down to Clemson. The Tigers cannot be allowed to get into their halfcourt offense so easily. If we're not able to disrupt any ball movement like last night, then it's another road L.

It's also especially important we take care of the ball. Even though we held the Tigers to 12 1st half points the first go-round, they equaled that point total in about a 2:00 stretch of the 2nd half due to Duke turnovers. We're going to face the press the entire game on made buckets. There simply has to be better communication than what we saw last night.

[soccerstud2210]

with the way we were turning the ball over, this full court press could get REAL ugly for us real quick

[JDev]

I would expect Duke to play with a much higher level of intensity and focus. They have something to prove in this game for a number of reasons (what happened last night, coupled with what happened @Clemson last year). As far as shake-ups in the starting line-up, I would not be surprised at all. The Big 3 are locks to start and play 30+, but I am willing to bet that whoever brings the intensity in practice will be on the floor first on Saturday. I cannot imagine we see the Duke team we saw last night, but even a renewed intensity and effort certainly doesn't mean Duke will handle Clemson like they did in Cameron. This is a good team in a tough gym.

[lpd1982]

We can argue about how, when and why... but the consensus of the powers that be is that the boys did not show up or perform as had been expected. Usually doesn't happen twice in a row. Doesn't guarantee a win but I don't expect to see a repeat of last night.
Booker will be looking for a big night, as he should.
We will do our damnedest to stop him, and I believe we will.
Color me optimisitic.

[KShip21]

I know it has been said by players and coaches that they only focus on the next game and are sure not to overlook opponents. Watching the game last night, I find that hard to believe. We did not show up, and it never looked like we left the bus. Hopefully, for Saturday's sake, this was the one "rare" time that we overlooked an opponent, and we come out firing at littlejohn.

Does anyone know anything new about Stitt? He was hobled at Tech tuesday night... If he's not playing 100% it gives a little more room to focus on Booker, and shut him down like we did a few weeks ago.

[Wander]

uh, we already played Clemson guys. Why is everyone talking about how Booker is going to go nuts?

You're underestimating the home/road difference in college basketball. At this point, you could probably drop 20 points on this Duke team yourself if you forced them to play on the driveway in front of your house.

[Duvall]

You're underestimating the home/road difference in college basketball.

The home/road difference in college basketball is usually only a handful of points, perhaps a seven to eight point swing. This Duke team may be an exception to that general rule, but it's too early to tell.

[YourLandlord]

You're underestimating the home/road difference in college basketball. At this point, you could probably drop 20 points on this Duke team yourself if you forced them to play on the driveway in front of your house.

The home/road difference has no impact on the defense that Duke played on Booker last game, which he identified as preventing him from getting passes inside for easy baskets.

[Wander]

The home/road difference has no impact on the defense that Duke played on Booker last game

I don't know how you can possibly make that assertion.

[gofurman]

1. Yes. He's had monster games against Duke at home previously. If they can get him the ball, I can certainly see him repeating that. It goes without saying that limiting his touches is a key, because aside from him Clemson's half-court offense is limited mainly to chucking up 3s.
2. Aside from benching Plumlee, I don't know what he can really do to shake things up. He's not benching any of the big three (nor should he), and Thomas already starts. I also don't know what rotating in a different starting big would do, considering that they rotate so frequently anyway.

It'll be a good test. Clemson is a feast-or-famine team. They feed off the press and score points in bunches. But if they can't turn you over, they tend to struggle in the half court. If we can do a good job against their pressure and if we can do a reasonable job of minimizing Booker again, we should be able to win against them. But no team in the ACC seems to ride so much on their confidence level as Clemson. If they smell blood in the water, they can turn the game ugly quickly.

They play a very different style than State, and hopefully that bodes well. I do feel like some of the problems against State were related to their style (4-out, 1-in, with a really good big man and two guards who penetrated well) as well as some fantastic outside shooting. We won't see that same style from Clemson.

I really hope we can get over the road bugaboo and get rid of that 0 in the road win column. It would be a huge boost for the team's confidence.

issue - state's press bothered Duke. Clemson is much better at the press.

[YourLandlord]

I don't know how you can possibly make that assertion.

The court is the same size. They players are the same. The coaches are the same.

Does the fact that the court is located a few hundred miles south change the defensive strategy or something? Is Duke not allowed to implement the same strategy because the game isn't at home?

Why don't you explain why playing on the road will change the way we defend Booker?

[Saratoga2]

There is a lot of talk about how difficult it is to win on the road in our league and for that matter any division 1 matchup. Saying that, I haven't really heard anyone list the factors which make winning on the road so difficult. I would think the following are true, but there are probably other reasons as well:

1. Hostile environment and crowd take away from the concentration of the visiting players. Also, they may make it difficult to communicate defensive switches and the like.

2. The crowd also infuses the home team with a lot of energy. Everyone wants to do well in front of their friends and family.

3. The perspective of the basketball arena is different and shooting may be bothered by subtle differences.

4. Refs may be swayed by the energy of the crowd without even realizing it. Maybe the visiting team ppicks upextra fouls or are call for traveling more often.

5. Kids have to travel and are away from their normal day to day activities and posibly don't sleep as well.

6. Maybe losing on the road is a self fulfilling prophecy, since the kids might actually believe it is true.

There are many experienced contributors to this web site and I am sure others have lots of other ideas as well. The other question that comes out of this thinking, is if we know the factors, what do we do to counteract them?

[YourLandlord]

There is a lot of talk about how difficult it is to win on the road in our league and for that matter any division 1 matchup. Saying that, I haven't really heard anyone list the factors which make winning on the road so difficult. I would think the following are true, but there are probably other reasons as well:

I'll answer these with respect to our defense, which is the position i'm defending. Some in this thread feel Booker will go nuts simply because it's at home, when we shut him down just 2 weeks ago.



1. Hostile environment and crowd take away from the concentration of the visiting players. Also, they may make it difficult to communicate defensive switches and the like.

Crowds don't scream when their own team is on offense (i.e., when we are on defense). They make noise when their own team is on defense.



2. The crowd also infuses the home team with a lot of energy. Everyone wants to do well in front of their friends and family.

Agreed.



3. The perspective of the basketball arena is different and shooting may be bothered by subtle differences.

This won't matter as much for Booker, who scores on dunks and layups. Certainly if affects outside shooters.



4. Refs may be swayed by the energy of the crowd without even realizing it. Maybe the visiting team ppicks upextra fouls or are call for traveling more often.

Agreed; as an aside, research shows refs favor the losing team more than home/away teams.



5. Kids have to travel and are away from their normal day to day activities and posibly don't sleep as well.

Agreed. This could take away some defensive intensity or alertness.



6. Maybe losing on the road is a self fulfilling prophecy, since the kids might actually believe it is true.

Agreed.



There are many experienced contributors to this web site and I am sure others have lots of other ideas as well. The other question that comes out of this thinking, is if we know the factors, what do we do to counteract them?

Thank you for a good post.

[Wander]

The court is the same size. They players are the same. The coaches are the same.

Does the fact that the court is located a few hundred miles south change the defensive strategy or something? Is Duke not allowed to implement the same strategy because the game isn't at home?

Why don't you explain why playing on the road will change the way we defend Booker?

Look man, I'm not a sports psychologist. But it's a very well established fact that teams generally play worse on both sides of the ball when they play road games.

I'm not saying we won't, or shouldn't, use the same strategy. I'm not even saying it won't work. I'm just saying the fact that it's at Clemson instead of Duke will contribute to making that strategy harder to execute successfully, and Booker going off for a lot of points on us is a legitimate concern.

[RainingThrees]

Look man, I'm not a sports psychologist. But it's a very well established fact that teams generally play worse on both sides of the ball when they play road games.

I'm not saying we won't, or shouldn't, use the same strategy. I'm not even saying it won't work. I'm just saying the fact that it's at Clemson instead of Duke will contribute to making that strategy harder to execute successfully, and Booker going off for a lot of points on us is a legitimate concern.

If you ever play sports you can feel the positive energy behind you at home. Even if the calls don't go your way there is an extra boost of energy playing at home compared to playing away. In my experience playing sports the team as a whole usually played better at home rather than away. That said, can we win a freakin road game!!!!!

[sagegrouse]

The home/road difference in college basketball is usually only a handful of points, perhaps a seven to eight point swing. This Duke team may be an exception to that general rule, but it's too early to tell.

Where the difference occurred is the first game. Clemson scored 12 points in the first half and OP attributed much of that to the reaction of his young team to their first trip to Cameron and maybe even their first ACC road game.

Littlejohn or not, this Clemson team should perform light-years better this Saturday.

sagegrouse

[slower]

There is a lot of talk about how difficult it is to win on the road in our league and for that matter any division 1 matchup. Saying that, I haven't really heard anyone list the factors which make winning on the road so difficult. I would think the following are true, but there are probably other reasons as well:

1. Hostile environment and crowd take away from the concentration of the visiting players. Also, they may make it difficult to communicate defensive switches and the like.

2. The crowd also infuses the home team with a lot of energy. Everyone wants to do well in front of their friends and family.

3. The perspective of the basketball arena is different and shooting may be bothered by subtle differences.

4. Refs may be swayed by the energy of the crowd without even realizing it. Maybe the visiting team ppicks upextra fouls or are call for traveling more often.

5. Kids have to travel and are away from their normal day to day activities and posibly don't sleep as well.

6. Maybe losing on the road is a self fulfilling prophecy, since the kids might actually believe it is true.

There are many experienced contributors to this web site and I am sure others have lots of other ideas as well. The other question that comes out of this thinking, is if we know the factors, what do we do to counteract them?

Great post. Last night's game seemed (to me) to be driven, to a greater degree than usual, by the energy/frenzy of the home crowd. Maybe I need to watch the game again (although I don't think I could stomach it) to verify this, but I remember thinking that everybody was playing at warp speed at several points. I think the influence of the crowd and other "non-physical" factors are often under-rated.

I'm worried that things could get ugly if Clemson gets an early lead and the crowd is in a frenzy. Of course, nobody EVER knows exactly how things will play out until they actually happen - let's hope that we're all wrong and our guys come out and blow their doors off.

[robed deity]

In my limited experience of playing organized sports, when I was competing in an environment where I was being cheered against, it made me want to try even harder , just to shut the opposing fans up. I suppose this can make one try TOO hard, or at least cause you to not channel the effort in a positive way.

[CDu]

The court is the same size. They players are the same. The coaches are the same.

Does the fact that the court is located a few hundred miles south change the defensive strategy or something? Is Duke not allowed to implement the same strategy because the game isn't at home?

Why don't you explain why playing on the road will change the way we defend Booker?

The home/road thing may not affect how we TRY to defend Booker. But it may very well affect the results. Clemson is an incredibly bipolar team. When they're on, they just overwhelm teams. This stems from their defense. If they start forcing turnovers, then they obviously get easy buckets but they also seem to shoot better. Further, Booker really seems to feed on the emotion of the game at home when things are going well. So he makes himself more of a presence.

I'm not saying that Booker will go off for 25 and 15 against us. But I do think you are too easily dismissing the possibility that he can do so without considering the emotional aspect of Clemson's entire game.

No - playing on the road shouldn't necessarily affect our gameplan defensively. But it may very well affect Clemson's performance offensively. It's not as simple as trying to do what we want defensively. Clemson also tries to do what they want offensively, and they're much better at doing what they want offensively at home compared to on the road.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I have one small favor to ask of Andre Dawkins for this game. DO SOMETHING!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

You are a talented player. Get on the court, have some fun and let loose. For him to go 6 games in a row without a 3 pointer is absurd. He has to be a contributor.

[jv001]

Here is a thread for the Clemson game.

I have two questions, one of which is rhetorical:

1. Do you think Trevor Booker is licking his chops after seeing what Tracy Smith did to Duke last night?

2. Given K's unhappiness with the effort, will there be a shakeup in the starting lineup?

sagegrouse
'In 2005, after a loss to VT away, Coach said he was "feeling numb" with the lack of effort the team showed. The next game against Wake, he started Patrick Davidson, Patrick Johnson, and Reggie Love (now the keeper of the holy Blackberry) along with JJ and Shelden. To this day, Chris Paul believes that K sent Patrick Davidson out to pick a fight and get him tossed. It wasn't true, but it worked for me! BTW Duke won 102-92.'

1. I think T. Booker was licking his chops before we lost last night. He was embarassed in the first game. Remember the block by Kyle and the jawing. Trevor's not the kind of player that easily forgets something like that.
2. As for a shakeup in our lineup. I hope not. If we bench Miles, I think that will set him back and take away his confidence. Let's hope he gets the intensity back in practice by game. I don't see benching Lance because he did a great job on Booker last game. As for starting a different 5, that would be disastrous. Their press would put us in a hole we'd never get out of.
I do hope to see the following:
1. Good decisions by Kyle and Jon. Both have made some bad plays by leaving their feet and getting caught in the air. Jon looks like he's trying to draw a foul and not putting ehough emphasis on making the shot. That's something that can be corrected. Kyle has been dribbling too much. The entire team has been doing that. Not enough passing.
2. Room some plays for the guys on the low block and actually pass the ball into them. We are depending too much on scoring from missed shots.
3. Don't waste our fouls. Way too many silly fouls. Mason got into foul trouble way too early last night.
4. Please come out with some energy and I mean everyone. The starters, the bench players and the coaching staff. If we don't we will come away with a big "L".
Go Duke!

[CDu]

I have one small favor to ask of Andre Dawkins for this game. DO SOMETHING!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

You are a talented player. Get on the court, have some fun and let loose. For him to go 6 games in a row without a 3 pointer is absurd. He has to be a contributor.

It's tough to complain too much about Dawkins. Yes, he has struggled mightily since the year turned. But he's a freshman, and you just never know with them. It appears that he's really struggling with the emotion of ACC play. I don't want to blame it on the loss of his sibling, because he did fairly well in the few games immediately following the tragedy. But I won't rule that out as a possibility either.

He's obviously not playing with a lot of confidence right now, and that's understandable given his shooting slump. Hopefully he gets it back. But at this point, I'd just expect him to be a 5-10 mpg player to fill in minutes at the wing. If we get more than that, great. He's certainly capable of providing more. But it's tough to put that burden of expectation on him at this point when he's obviously still trying to learn the game defensively and to develop beyond being a spot shooter offensively.

[superdave]

What are the advantages/disadvatages of us running a few plays for him each game?

[MChambers]

It's tough to complain too much about Dawkins. Yes, he has struggled mightily since the year turned. But he's a freshman, and you just never know with them. It appears that he's really struggling with the emotion of ACC play. I don't want to blame it on the loss of his sibling, because he did fairly well in the few games immediately following the tragedy. But I won't rule that out as a possibility either.

He's obviously not playing with a lot of confidence right now, and that's understandable given his shooting slump. Hopefully he gets it back. But at this point, I'd just expect him to be a 5-10 mpg player to fill in minutes at the wing. If we get more than that, great. He's certainly capable of providing more. But it's tough to put that burden of expectation on him at this point when he's obviously still trying to learn the game defensively and to develop beyond being a spot shooter offensively.

Plus he's playing on a bad ankle. There was a play in the first half where he was really hurting, and I'm pretty sure he tweaked it.

[jv001]

Plus he's playing on a bad ankle. There was a play in the first half where he was really hurting, and I'm pretty sure he tweaked it.

Yes, he turned the ball over by losing his balance and falling out of bounds. Was limping noticably when it happened. Go Duke!

[Troublemaker]

To add to the home vs road discussion, I'm looking at the NBA standings (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/standings ) and I notice that there are only 7 NBA teams who are above .500 on the road. There are definitely some wide disparities in there, like the Bulls who are 14-7 at home and 4-15 on the road or the Jazz who are 16-6 at home and 8-12 on the road. Even some contenders like the Magic (12-11 on the road), Nuggets (9-11), Spurs (8-9), and Hawks (10-9) are quite mediocre away from home. The Lakers are "only" 9-6 themselves. These splits may be surprising to some but not to others; I just wanted to add them to the discussion. Regardless, Duke is 0-3 on the road and will obviously have to improve that percentage a lot to reach its goals.

[bird]

Can someone help me here? I remember a quote from, I think, Laettner (it might have been Hurley or someone else) who said that the loved seeing the fannies going up the isles on the road. The college game is crazy, with young kids playing under great pressure. Some enjoy tormenting away fans, feed off the energy of the opposing side (Hurley was one in particular), and others get discombobulated. Emotion is the key on the road, although I do think teams tend to shoot more poorly away from a home arena, whether on an opponents' court or at a neutral site.

Re NBA: watching "inside the locker room" programming makes clear that road trips for NBA teams are simply brutal, much more so than in the college games. Looking at the Wizard's March schedule, they play 16 games in 26 days, 11 on the road, and do not have two home games in a row the entire month. The schedule includes an extended road trip, with four games in a row (ending with the Lakers). That is 32 travel events in a single month, with a lot of time in hotel rooms. IMO, the quality of late season games really suffers, and I wonder why the NBA doesn't set up home stands and multiple away games against the same opponent like the MLB. In sum, it seems to me that the home-away disparity in the NBA has a lot to do with simple fatigue, and is really not comparable to the college game.

[Kfanarmy]

To add to the home vs road discussion, I'm looking at the NBA standings (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/standings ) and I notice that there are only 7 NBA teams who are above .500 on the road.

I wouldn't look too much at the NBA; they have a HUGE monetary incentive in insuring that home teams win a significant number of games and the ability to impact home W-Ls in an organized way.

[SilkyJ]

Crowds don't scream when their own team is on offense (i.e., when we are on defense). They make noise when their own team is on defense.


False. See: Stadium, Cameron Indoor

[YourLandlord]

False. See: Stadium, Cameron Indoor

at Cameron:

When Duke is on defense: OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

When Duke is on offense: "Lets go duke! lets go duke!"

there's a reason for that.

[dukelifer]

I have one small favor to ask of Andre Dawkins for this game. DO SOMETHING!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

You are a talented player. Get on the court, have some fun and let loose. For him to go 6 games in a row without a 3 pointer is absurd. He has to be a contributor.
Give him a break- there was a chance this kid might not play the rest of the year. We have no idea how he is dealing with what happened to his sister. It does not take much to get down and in a slump in this game.

[gep]

^^^^^

Yeah, if I remember correctly, when he left Duke in early December, I don't think anyone knew IF, or WHEN, he might return. The fact that he came back within a week or so doesn't mean that everything is OK. :rolleyes:

[Saratoga2]

I did some additional looking into the question of home and away records and will not post the links I checked, however, one site claimed for all sports and all leagues, the away record is far worse than the home record. The big 12 has an article on that and so do some sports pundits. Most do not support their argument with facts so it is not worth providing the links. The key from their point of view is the great boost in intensity to the play of the home team provided by the enthusiasm of the home crowd.

[UrinalCake]

Historically, Duke's approach when facing this type of team has been to go one-on-one with the center, let him get his points and then shut down everyone else, especially the three point shooters. Booker might get 30 points but if nobody else scores more than 5 or 6 then we should be okay.

In this case, however, there are two mitigating factors: 1.) no one else on Clemson's team scares you offensively, and 2.) we don't really have anyone who can go one-one-one with Booker with even moderate effectiveness. So in that sense I can see some double-teams on Booker and hopefully we'll be able to rotate quickly enough that he can't just dump the ball off to a wide-open guy under the basket.

This will be a tough, tough game. Not only are they looking for redemption from our earlier game and brimming with confidence after our loss, but they also absolutely destroyed us at their place last year. That was probably our worst game of the decade as far as effort, far worse than wednesday's game.

[airowe]

2.) we don't really have anyone who can go one-one-one with Booker with even moderate effectiveness. So in that sense I can see some double-teams on Booker and hopefully we'll be able to rotate quickly enough that he can't just dump the ball off to a wide-open guy under the basket.


Huh? Did you not see when Booker went 4-11 for 10 points against us earlier this season?

[CDu]

Give him a break- there was a chance this kid might not play the rest of the year. We have no idea how he is dealing with what happened to his sister. It does not take much to get down and in a slump in this game.

I'm less inclined to believe that Dawkins's slump is driven by the loss of his sister. He scored 16, 6, 7, and 10 points in the four games following the tragedy while shooting 6-16 (37.5%) from 3pt range in that stretch. His slump didn't really hit until January, where he's 0-8 on 3s and 2-13 from the field overall.

I don't mean to in any way suggest he's not suffering emotionally from the loss, and it's certainly possible that the magnitude of the tragedy didn't set in for him until January. But I tend to believe his January slump is due to another cause. Maybe he's lost confidence. Maybe he's hit a wall. Maybe the level of play has caught up to him and he's a bit overwhelmed. Those seem like the more likely culprits at this point. But you're right: it does not take much to get down and in a slump in college basketball. This is especially true when your game is still primarily limited to perimeter shooting.

Hopefully Dawkins can bounce back, but at this point (just like prior to the season) I put no expectations on him. If he can simply give us 8-12 minutes per game of rest for the big three on the perimeter, that's good enough for me. Anything more than that is gravy.

[CDu]

Huh? Did you not see when Booker went 4-11 for 10 points against us earlier this season?

And did we not play a lot of help defense on Booker in that game? I think that was the point, that we wouldn't try to stop Booker one-on-one.

[Klemnop]

1. I think T. Booker was licking his chops before we lost last night. He was embarassed in the first game. Remember the block by Kyle and the jawing. Trevor's not the kind of player that easily forgets something like that.

I remember thinking that there was some bad blood on that play right when it happened. They showed a replay several times, though, and after further review I think it amounted to Booker acknowledging that Singler had gotten the best of him on that play and essentially "Good on you!". Singler seemed to be saying back, "Yes I did."

I thought it was a great display of mutual respect between a couple of guys that have had some good head-to-head moments.

Klem

[airowe]

And did we not play a lot of help defense on Booker in that game? I think that was the point, that we wouldn't try to stop Booker one-on-one.

If that was the point, ok I guess. I actually remember multiple times last game when Lance stood Booker straight up after he caught the ball, forcing him to either take a bad shot or kick it back out. Sure, there was help defens, but you could say that about any guy Duke defends.

[jv001]

I remember thinking that there was some bad blood on that play right when it happened. They showed a replay several times, though, and after further review I think it amounted to Booker acknowledging that Singler had gotten the best of him on that play and essentially "Good on you!". Singler seemed to be saying back, "Yes I did."

I thought it was a great display of mutual respect between a couple of guys that have had some good head-to-head moments.

Klem

Klem you're correct in there was no bad blood and Trevor took it like you said, "good play big guy". But in an interview I saw, Trevor was asked about it and he was his good natured self in describing the incident. However he did say that Kyle and Duke would have to come to Clemson and the way he said it sounded like pay back was coming. I like Trevor. Seems like a nice young man. One of the best players in the conference. Go Duke!

[moonpie23]

i think the key to saturday's game will be which team learned more about the other team in the last meeting..

i love booker and his game, but maybe, clemson just had a bad game at duke like duke had at state.

this will be a coaching game.


i'm looking forward to it......win or lose, i think it's gonna be a classic..

[CDu]

If that was the point, ok I guess. I actually remember multiple times last game when Lance stood Booker straight up after he caught the ball, forcing him to either take a bad shot or kick it back out. Sure, there was help defens, but you could say that about any guy Duke defends.

At the risk of speaking for the previous poster, I'm pretty confident that was the point. He or she specifically said "one-on-one" and said because of that we'd see some double teams and hope that we could rotate quickly. I don't think the poster was in any way suggest that we couldn't, as a team, defend Booker.

As to your point, yes. Thomas had some possessions in which he defending Booker alone. But that was just a part of a very detailed defensive plan that involved multiple defenders guarding Booker throughout the game, a good bit of double-team help from the weakside block, some collapsing down from the wings, and some occasional one-on-one (with help defense if needed).

[CDu]

Klem you're correct in there was no bad blood and Trevor took it like you said, "good play big guy". But in an interview I saw, Trevor was asked about it and he was his good natured self in describing the incident. However he did say that Kyle and Duke would have to come to Clemson and the way he said it sounded like pay back was coming. I like Trevor. Seems like a nice young man. One of the best players in the conference. Go Duke!

From what I've seen of him throughout his career, I really like Booker. He plays hard, but seems to have a good time. He seems to really love playing college basketball and competing. Sometines, he gets a little over the top with the celebrations, but I've never seen him let his emotional style cause him to lose his composure. And obviously, the guy is a beast, but he has really improved his game over the years. It's amazing how much more versatile he is as a scorer compared to when he was a freshman. Clemson is lucky to have him, and he's really the only reason they're dangerous this year in my opinion.

If anything, I think they underutilize him. They are just so disorganized offensively in the half court game that he frequently gets lost in the shuffle. Unlike Duke, where we get the ball into the hands of at least two of our big three on basically every possession, Clemson can go several minutes without getting Booker a touch.

[dbd4ever]

I don't know about everyone else here but i was very surprised at how Duke handled Clemson the first time at Cameron. It seemed like we came out and punched them in the mouth and they never responded. And for some reason i feel that we can do this even at Littlejohn tomorrow night. I feel that the first ten minutes will be very important for us to come out and establish our own tempo and flow for the rest of the game.


There is one thing that i have learned by watching and following college basketball for so long: win-loss records do not determine how well you match up with a team and how each team exploits their matchups or mismatches.

We imposed our size on Clemson and they had no way to combat that, because they do not have a big that can stretch the defense and pull our bigs away from the basket. And for most of the season, Clemson hasn't been a team that can kill you from the outside(except the night they torched UNC).
They usually penetrate and dish to their big guys, use the pick and roll, and score a bunch of points off of their press. The first two options are hard to pull off when the middle is clogged with big men.

Against NCSU, we could not exploit that size, because one we had bigs in foul trouble right from the start and two they stretched the defense with their shooting form their guards and their bigs. This in turn left Tracy Smith to go one on one down low and resulted in a career night for him. I don't see this happening against Clemson.

It might not be a bad idea to go zone to start against Clemson and make them attempt to shoot us out of it. That way we keep Booker at bay and cut down the penetration. Their best shooter is David Potter and he has been in a slump as of late. He really had a rough game at Cameron with foul trouble. I believe this game will come down to us having to many mismatches for them to compensate for, and they are not exactly a deep team which should help us also. Either way i think we win at Littlejohn. Go Duke!

[CDu]

I don't know about everyone else here but i was very surprised at how Duke handled Clemson the first time at Cameron. It seemed like we came out and punched them in the mouth and they never responded. And for some reason i feel that we can do this even at Littlejohn tomorrow night. I feel that the first ten minutes will be very important for us to come out and establish our own tempo and flow for the rest of the game.


There is one thing that i have learned by watching and following college basketball for so long: win-loss records do not determine how well you match up with a team and how each team exploits their matchups or mismatches.

We imposed our size on Clemson and they had no way to combat that, because they do not have a big that can stretch the defense and pull our bigs away from the basket. And for most of the season, Clemson hasn't been a team that can kill you from the outside(except the night they torched UNC).
They usually penetrate and dish to their big guys, use the pick and roll, and score a bunch of points off of their press. The first two options are hard to pull off when the middle is clogged with big men.

Against NCSU, we could not exploit that size, because one we had bigs in foul trouble right from the start and two they stretched the defense with their shooting form their guards and their bigs. This in turn left Tracy Smith to go one on one down low and resulted in a career night for him. I don't see this happening against Clemson.

I agree with all of this.


It might not be a bad idea to go zone to start against Clemson and make them attempt to shoot us out of it. That way we keep Booker at bay and cut down the penetration. Their best shooter is David Potter and he has been in a slump as of late. He really had a rough game at Cameron with foul trouble. I believe this game will come down to us having to many mismatches for them to compensate for, and they are not exactly a deep team which should help us also. Either way i think we win at Littlejohn. Go Duke!

We could play some zone, but I suspect that we'll simply play man-to-man as long as possible (we always do). They aren't going to pull all their bigs away from the basket, so we'll always have some bodies inside. And frequently they have two bigs on the post, so we'll generally have two big bodies on the blocks.

Ultimately, the key is going to be handling their pressure, preventing dribble penetration, and containing (as much as possible) Booker. I think the first two are huge. They get so much confidence when their press is working. But when it's not working, they struggle to play well. And in the half court, if you take away dribble penetration they often struggle to get their bigs involved (which is part of why we did so well against Booker at Cameron). If we do well with preventing penetration and handling the press, then handling Booker becomes somewhat "easier." But that will still be a key to the game, as I have to believe they'll make a stronger effort to get him going this time.

[jv001]

I agree with all of this.



We could play some zone, but I suspect that we'll simply play man-to-man as long as possible (we always do). They aren't going to pull all their bigs away from the basket, so we'll always have some bodies inside. And frequently they have two bigs on the post, so we'll generally have two big bodies on the blocks.

Ultimately, the key is going to be handling their pressure, preventing dribble penetration, and containing (as much as possible) Booker. I think the first two are huge. They get so much confidence when their press is working. But when it's not working, they struggle to play well. And in the half court, if you take away dribble penetration they often struggle to get their bigs involved (which is part of why we did so well against Booker at Cameron). If we do well with preventing penetration and handling the press, then handling Booker becomes somewhat "easier." But that will still be a key to the game, as I have to believe they'll make a stronger effort to get him going this time.

Some good stuff posters. I think that practice at Duke this week have been intense. More that likely Coack K has called the guys out about their intensity and ability to play defense. We may see some zone, but probably not much of it. I agree that number one, we must break their press and I think we try to score off that. Number two we have to stop dribble penetration. After LT moved on Smith against State we slowed him down. That is until they began to beat us with dribble penetration. We can't let that happen against the Tigers. Stitt will try to do just that. Nolan will have to contain him. On offense we need to pass the ball more quickly and not do so much dribbling. And we need to atleast let the big guys touch the ball in the low paint. Since both teams are coming off lackluster games(defeats) like someone said, this could be a classic. Go Duke!

[NSDukeFan]

Some good stuff posters. I think that practice at Duke this week have been intense. More that likely Coack K has called the guys out about their intensity and ability to play defense. We may see some zone, but probably not much of it. I agree that number one, we must break their press and I think we try to score off that. Number two we have to stop dribble penetration. After LT moved on Smith against State we slowed him down. That is until they began to beat us with dribble penetration. We can't let that happen against the Tigers. Stitt will try to do just that. Nolan will have to contain him. On offense we need to pass the ball more quickly and not do so much dribbling. And we need to atleast let the big guys touch the ball in the low paint. Since both teams are coming off lackluster games(defeats) like someone said, this could be a classic. Go Duke!

I also think breaking the press will be key, as Clemson and its crowd can get a lot of energy from some turnovers and easy baskets. I wonder whether we will try to score off of it or not. In Cameron, we didn't try to score off the press which appeared, to me, to be to control the tempo, especially since Clemson was having such difficulty scoring on us in the half-court. I also agree this could be a great game.

[Neals384]

I also think breaking the press will be key, as Clemson and its crowd can get a lot of energy from some turnovers and easy baskets. I wonder whether we will try to score off of it or not. In Cameron, we didn't try to score off the press which appeared, to me, to be to control the tempo, especially since Clemson was having such difficulty scoring on us in the half-court. I also agree this could be a great game.

Agree. I really dislike the way Duke has handled the press this year. Especially against Clemson I, the strategy was to have Jon dribble the ball to front-court, mostly with his back to the defender.

Instead, we have to make the opposing team pay for pressing. Move the ball upcourt quickly by passing, hoping to develop a two-on-one. Yes, there might be a couple turnovers along the way, but quick and easy baskets are the best way to discourage a press.

Neal

[UrinalCake]

At the risk of speaking for the previous poster, I'm pretty confident that was the point. He or she specifically said "one-on-one" and said because of that we'd see some double teams and hope that we could rotate quickly. I don't think the poster was in any way suggest that we couldn't, as a team, defend Booker.

Yes, you read my post correctly. When we had Shelden we could leave him one-on-one and he could hold his own, but with our current group of guys they'll need help. One of the big problems against State was that the when double team would come, the guy being defended by the extra defender was simply left wide open under the basket. There was no secondary rotation to cover THAT guy. I guess that's just an inherent risk with our overplaying defense - the hope is that the guy with the ball can't pass the ball out or can't see the open teammate. But it was frustrating to see it lead to so many dunks by State.

A similar and equally frustrating play that often happened was that a guard would get into the lane and one of our bigs would help out defending him, leaving his man wide open for a dunk. I'd prefer for the big to stay at home, especially when it's a guard who you really don't expect to shoot. Booker will be the primary scoring threat and so there's no reason to leave him, ever.

[UrinalCake]

Agree. I really dislike the way Duke has handled the press this year.

I also thought we would have handled the press better. We knew coming into the season that teams would try to press us due to our lack of a true point guard and our lack of guard depth. I'm sure this is an emphasis in practice. With the Plumlees, Lance, and Kelly we have bigs who are capable ball-handlers so I would think we'd try to pass the ball up the court rather than dribbling. Perhaps our lack of guards makes it hard to simulate the full-court press in practice.

[CDu]

Yes, you read my post correctly. When we had Shelden we could leave him one-on-one and he could hold his own, but with our current group of guys they'll need help. One of the big problems against State was that the when double team would come, the guy being defended by the extra defender was simply left wide open under the basket. There was no secondary rotation to cover THAT guy. I guess that's just an inherent risk with our overplaying defense - the hope is that the guy with the ball can't pass the ball out or can't see the open teammate. But it was frustrating to see it lead to so many dunks by State.

Well, a big part of that was that State spread the floor so well. There was typically only one player anywhere within 15 feet of the basket. So it's hard for help defense to recover from such a distance without leaving wide open perimeter shots.


A similar and equally frustrating play that often happened was that a guard would get into the lane and one of our bigs would help out defending him, leaving his man wide open for a dunk. I'd prefer for the big to stay at home, especially when it's a guard who you really don't expect to shoot. Booker will be the primary scoring threat and so there's no reason to leave him, ever.

The problem with that is if the big doesn't come over and help then the guard has an uncontested layup. You have to help and hope that (1) the guard makes a bad decision or bad pass, and/or (2) that the beaten defender can recover to provide help on the man that the big left open. You're sort of "damned if you do, damned if you don't."

This is the challenge that spreading the floor can create. It puts a premium on being able to defend dribble penetration, because it makes help defense a lot more difficult. If you get beaten on the perimeter against the spread, you've created a 2-on-1 situation (assuming the guard can drive). If you get beaten on the perimeter against a team with two offensive guys in the post, you have a crowded 3-on-2 situation. It takes more skill for a player to make the right decision in a 3-on-2 situation than in a 2-on-1 situation. This is especially true in a crowded half-court situation.

[UrinalCake]

The problem with that is if the big doesn't come over and help then the guard has an uncontested layup.

I'm not talking about situations where the guard has completely blown by his defender. I'm thinking of times where he's just sort of casually dribbling or backing into the lane, and his defender is still in front of him. Several times our bigs would rotate over to "help" when he really doesn't need to. I think some of it is recognizing the personnel - we don't need to double team Ferdinand Degand in the paint because the likeliness of him shooting is very slim. The wide-open guy inside is a far greater scoring threat. But if it's someone like, say, Javier Vasquez, then perhaps it makes sense to put another body in front of him.

But yeah, I get what you're saying - if the guard really has left his defender in the dust then the big has to slow him down and at least force him to try to make the extra pass.

[CDu]

I'm not talking about situations where the guard has completely blown by his defender. I'm thinking of times where he's just sort of casually dribbling or backing into the lane, and his defender is still in front of him. Several times our bigs would rotate over to "help" when he really doesn't need to. I think some of it is recognizing the personnel - we don't need to double team Ferdinand Degand in the paint because the likeliness of him shooting is very slim. The wide-open guy inside is a far greater scoring threat. But if it's someone like, say, Javier Vasquez, then perhaps it makes sense to put another body in front of him.

But yeah, I get what you're saying - if the guard really has left his defender in the dust then the big has to slow him down and at least force him to try to make the extra pass.

Well, I don't really remember too many cases in which a guard was "casually dribbling or backing into the lane." I'm not saying that scenario never happened (it's certainly possible that our bigs were overzealous in their help), but most of the plays I remember involved Degand/Gonzalez having beaten his man and heading toward basically an open layup. Degand and Gonzalez both are not afraid to take an open layup if they have their man beaten.

Help defense is a tricky thing. It's hard to determine when you need to help and when you need to stay home. It's one of the things that made Shelden Williams so amazing. He just had a great sense of when to converge. And he did so despite having LOTS of uncontested guards/wings headed his way.

[moonpie23]

even tho we lost, i DID like the way MASON handled that press where he just went coast to coast and slammed it.......

a high percentage shot..
:D

[CDu]

even tho we lost, i DID like the way MASON handled that press where he just went coast to coast and slammed it.......

a high percentage shot..
:D

Yes, that was a nice play. And our bigs are going to need to be a part of the press breaking. I don't necessarily mean they need to take the ball from half court all the way to the rim. But they need to be able to provide an outlet near midcourt and identify the appropriate open man to keep the ball moving upcourt. Or, in Mason's case, just dribbling it up until someone defends him!

[94duke]

One of the main things I would look for against Clemson is limiting the number of touches that Booker gets by "fronting" him. In the first meeting Lance was outstanding in this regard. Lance also did this well against Tracy Smith in the State game. It is what Miles failed to do in the first half against Smith in the State game. If Lance or Miles can stay in front of Booker and deny him the ball, we should be ok. Our help defense in the past has been able to prevent the lob pass inside.

Booker will score. He is a beast. We need to limit his touches to make him less effective.

Front the post!

Go Duke!

[BlueintheFace]

This will be the most important (non-Carolina) game of the regular season.

[pfrduke]

Help defense is a tricky thing. It's hard to determine when you need to help and when you need to stay home. It's one of the things that made Shelden Williams so amazing. He just had a great sense of when to converge. And he did so despite having LOTS of uncontested guards/wings headed his way.

I think you're referring to this, but the "when" is more than just on a play by play basis (i.e., helping on this drive, but not on that one), but has really crucial timing and positional aspects as well. I think, right now, our younger bigs are a little over-zealous in their help - they're going about a half-step too soon and about a half-step too far. There are ways to time and position the help to make the layup a contested shot while not opening a gaping passing lane for an easy dish to the open big man. This, as you note, is tricky (certainly not as easy as I'm making it sound). Zoubek, I think, has a good feel for the position/timing aspects of it, but he's unfortunately so rooted to the ground that he's just not as much of an obstacle as a defender for the driving guard, and not as able to quickly recover if the guard successfully makes a drop-off pass.

[CDu]

I think you're referring to this, but the "when" is more than just on a play by play basis (i.e., helping on this drive, but not on that one), but has really crucial timing and positional aspects as well. I think, right now, our younger bigs are a little over-zealous in their help - they're going about a half-step too soon and about a half-step too far. There are ways to time and position the help to make the layup a contested shot while not opening a gaping passing lane for an easy dish to the open big man. This, as you note, is tricky (certainly not as easy as I'm making it sound). Zoubek, I think, has a good feel for the position/timing aspects of it, but he's unfortunately so rooted to the ground that he's just not as much of an obstacle as a defender for the driving guard, and not as able to quickly recover if the guard successfully makes a drop-off pass.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm referring to. You have to decide whether to help or not and then the right moment to help (if you do help). If you go too early, you make the decision to pass very easy for the guy with the ball. If you go too late, you wind up giving up the layup or fouling. If you time it right, you can either get the block/charge or force a moment of indecision and throw off the guy driving.

[left_hook_lacey]

All the other times are fairly irrelevant, as he'll be playing against the specific players and team that shut him down just a short time ago.

edit: that being said, I'm sure Clemson will make adjustments as will Duke, and he is more likely to perform to his season average than in his last game.

I was simply struck by the comments above about Booker licking his chops/being excited to play Duke...it was as if they didn't realize we already played them.

I'm taking from their comments that Booker is licking his chops at another shot. He was shut down last time, but that game was in Durham, and we were hitting on all cylinders that game and the couple before that. The last couple games we've looked a little sloppy. So the game Smith had coupled with Booker already wanting to get even, I could see why some people might be worried.

[flyingdutchdevil]

This will be the most important (non-Carolina) game of the regular season.

Agreed. Can you remember a time when two teams that aren't rivals or not in post season play have so much to play for? Wake may be a cupcake compared to this game.

Booker is going to be pissed. And his influence on the team will get them all fired up. Everyone on Duke will be pissed. So they'll all be fired up.

Here's to the Big 3 having some serious help!

[dbd4ever]

This will be the most important (non-Carolina) game of the regular season.

It's funny you say this, because I have been thinking that even before our recent stretch of road performances. This game has stuck out all year long as sort of a measuring point to see how we handle the pressure of Littlejohn along with the looming memory of last year's beating we sustained at the hands of the Tigers.

And before Georgia Tech officially came into the ACC conversation this year, I thought it would be our first big road test. But obviously that theory has taken a turn for the worst.

Side Note: I just noticed that Jay Bilas did a breakdown of the game on ESPN.com and he picked Clemson to win. Imagine that!

[ChicagoCrazy84]

This will be the most important (non-Carolina) game of the regular season.


As much as I hate 2 game losing streaks (they're a rarity for Duke) I don't think it necessarily spells the end of the season for us. It's not even February yet so there is plenty of time to improve and go on a roll.

[jv001]

Side Note: I just noticed that Jay Bilas did a breakdown of the game on ESPN.com and he picked Clemson to win. Imagine that!

Bet the odds makers have us an underdog also. Can't blame them. If we play our best and they play their best, I think we win. But if we play like we did against State, then it'll be hard to beat anyone left on our schedule. But I don't think we play that bad again this year. Go Duke!

[dbd4ever]

As much as I hate 2 game losing streaks (they're a rarity for Duke) I don't think it necessarily spells the end of the season for us. It's not even February yet so there is plenty of time to improve and go on a roll.

What two game losing streak are you referring to???

[MChambers]

Help defense is a tricky thing. It's hard to determine when you need to help and when you need to stay home. It's one of the things that made Shelden Williams so amazing. He just had a great sense of when to converge. And he did so despite having LOTS of uncontested guards/wings headed his way.
He also had a great sense of how to go straight up and block a shot, or at least make it a very difficult shot, without fouling. None of our bigs have yet mastered that. Zoubek does it right sometimes, but not all that often. MP1 and MP2 swing wildly at the ball and pick up cheap fouls.

[Kedsy]

What two game losing streak are you referring to???

I assume he's referring to an "if" two game losing streak, depending upon the outcome of this Saturday's game.

[pfrduke]

He also had a great sense of how to go straight up and block a shot, or at least make it a very difficult shot, without fouling. None of our bigs have yet mastered that. Zoubek does it right sometimes, but not all that often. MP1 and MP2 swing wildly at the ball and pick up cheap fouls.

In the Plumlees' defense, this is not a skill Shelden had mastered right away. He committed a foul every 6.2 minutes as a freshman, improving to one every 8 minutes as a sophomore, one every 11.5 as a junior, and then a slight regression to a still impressive one every 10.5 as a senior.

Miles started off at a lower point - one every 4.4 minutes last year(!) - but is improving this season as well, and now at one every 6.2. Mason is at one every 6.1. If the two of them could even get into Shel-as-a-soph territory, they'd be much more effective (and able to stay on the court longer).

[pfrduke]

He also had a great sense of how to go straight up and block a shot, or at least make it a very difficult shot, without fouling. None of our bigs have yet mastered that. Zoubek does it right sometimes, but not all that often. MP1 and MP2 swing wildly at the ball and pick up cheap fouls.

From another perspective, Shel fouled twice for every shot he blocked as a freshman (52 blocks, 102 fouls), and ended up with 23 more blocks than fouls in his senior season (137-114). His development on that front was extremely impressive. Of course, Duke doesn't develop big men....:rolleyes:

[CDu]

In the Plumlees' defense, this is not a skill Shelden had mastered right away. He committed a foul every 6.2 minutes as a freshman, improving to one every 8 minutes as a sophomore, one every 11.5 as a junior, and then a slight regression to a still impressive one every 10.5 as a senior.

Miles started off at a lower point - one every 4.4 minutes last year(!) - but is improving this season as well, and now at one every 6.2. Mason is at one every 6.1. If the two of them could even get into Shel-as-a-soph territory, they'd be much more effective (and able to stay on the court longer).

Yeah, it's easy to forget that (1) Williams was just an otherwordly defender as a junior and senior, and (2) Williams made plenty of defensive mistakes as a freshman, too.

Interestingly, Miles as a sophomore is putting up similar stats as what Williams did as a freshman:

Williams (FR): 19.2mpg, 8.2ppg, 5.9rpg, 1.6bpg, 51.6%fg, 62.5%ft, 3.1fpg
Miles (SO): 18.6mpg, 7.7ppg, 6.4rpg, 0.9bpg, 64.7%fg, 68.3%ft, 3.0fpg

Obviously it's not a fair comparison, and I don't mean to put the expectations that Miles will average 12.6ppg, 8.5rpg, and 3.0bpg as a junior (Williams's sophomore stats). But hopefully it does provide some perspective.

[BlueintheFace]

As much as I hate 2 game losing streaks (they're a rarity for Duke) I don't think it necessarily spells the end of the season for us. It's not even February yet so there is plenty of time to improve and go on a roll.

This game is about a lot more than a losing streak

[dbd4ever]

As much as I hate 2 game losing streaks (they're a rarity for Duke) I don't think it necessarily spells the end of the season for us. It's not even February yet so there is plenty of time to improve and go on a roll.


This game is about a lot more than a losing treak

Why are we already talking about losing Saturday?? Please leave that for another thread and hopefully it won't even be necessary!!

[MChambers]

In the Plumlees' defense, this is not a skill Shelden had mastered right away. He committed a foul every 6.2 minutes as a freshman, improving to one every 8 minutes as a sophomore, one every 11.5 as a junior, and then a slight regression to a still impressive one every 10.5 as a senior.

Miles started off at a lower point - one every 4.4 minutes last year(!) - but is improving this season as well, and now at one every 6.2. Mason is at one every 6.1. If the two of them could even get into Shel-as-a-soph territory, they'd be much more effective (and able to stay on the court longer).

Hope they get there, and hope we don't play against Okafor in the semis.

[dukestheheat]

Here is a thread for the Clemson game.

I have two questions, one of which is rhetorical:

1. Do you think Trevor Booker is licking his chops after seeing what Tracy Smith did to Duke last night?

2. Given K's unhappiness with the effort, will there be a shakeup in the starting lineup?

sagegrouse
'In 2005, after a loss to VT away, Coach said he was "feeling numb" with the lack of effort the team showed. The next game against Wake, he started Patrick Davidson, Patrick Johnson, and Reggie Love (now the keeper of the holy Blackberry) along with JJ and Shelden. To this day, Chris Paul believes that K sent Patrick Davidson out to pick a fight and get him tossed. It wasn't true, but it worked for me! BTW Duke won 102-92.'

My answers:

1) Yes.

2) IMO, we need more Dawkins for firepower.

That's it.

dth.

[BlueintheFace]

Why are we already talking about losing Saturday?? Please leave that for another thread and hopefully it won't even be necessary!!

Obviously, you are confused. Re-read the posts and you will see that much of this discussion on this thread is about the implications of the upcoming game.

[dbd4ever]

10-4

[DukeDevilDeb]

Historically, Duke's approach when facing this type of team has been to go one-on-one with the center, let him get his points and then shut down everyone else, especially the three point shooters. Booker might get 30 points but if nobody else scores more than 5 or 6 then we should be okay.

In this case, however, there are two mitigating factors: 1.) no one else on Clemson's team scares you offensively, and 2.) we don't really have anyone who can go one-one-one with Booker with even moderate effectiveness. So in that sense I can see some double-teams on Booker and hopefully we'll be able to rotate quickly enough that he can't just dump the ball off to a wide-open guy under the basket.

This will be a tough, tough game. Not only are they looking for redemption from our earlier game and brimming with confidence after our loss, but they also absolutely destroyed us at their place last year. That was probably our worst game of the decade as far as effort, far worse than wednesday's game.

And wasn't Lance primarily responsible for keeping Booker from his usual kind of scoring game?

[CDu]

And wasn't Lance primarily responsible for keeping Booker from his usual kind of scoring game?

Thomas, along with good help defense plenty of double-team help (sometimes from sagging perimeter defense, sometime from the offside post) were primarily responsible. And I'd argue that our perimeter defense and ability to avoid turnovers had a lot to do with it. But Thomas wasn't on an island against Booker - that was the point.

It's really hard to explain without seeing it, but Clemson is just a very bipolar team. When they're confident and turning people over, they seem like a juggernaut in nearly every facet of the game. When you can make it a half-court game and prevent easy baskets, they seem disorganized and can struggle. I can't remember a team that was so dependent on their pressure defense to function as a team. Beating their pressure defense can take a lot out of them emotionally, and that can have a big impact on Booker's effectiveness. It's really amazing.

We did a good job as a team on Booker in the last game. But in the three prior meetings, he went for 21 and 8, 15 and 10, and 18 and 7.

[airowe]

Our very own poster here at DBR on the front page of ESPN.com's College Basketball page:

http://twitgoo.com/c46ps

http://i48.tinypic.com/2ic3z2o.jpg

[CDu]

Our very own poster here at DBR on the front page of ESPN.com's College Basketball page:

http://twitgoo.com/c46ps



Good for him! Hopefully the sign remains correct.

[pfrduke]

Thomas, along with good help defense plenty of double-team help (sometimes from sagging perimeter defense, sometime from the offside post) were primarily responsible. And I'd argue that our perimeter defense and ability to avoid turnovers had a lot to do with it. But Thomas wasn't on an island against Booker - that was the point.

We did a good job as a team on Booker in the last game. But in the three prior meetings, he went for 21 and 8, 15 and 10, and 18 and 7.

This had a lot to do with the lack of the extra big for us last year, and also somewhat to do with Sykes' (and Mays' 2 years ago) better versatility as an offensive player than Jerai Grant. In the first game this year, Lance fronted early and often, which he could do because a) Grant is rooted to the other side of the post and b) a Plumlee or an improved Zoubek, rather than Singler, can rotate to help. Clemson did not do a good job clearing out the lane for an over-the-top entry pass.

I agree with your (and others') suggestion that Booker's performance last game doesn't mean we should expect the same this game. But I think that game has more predictive value than the games from last season given the dramatically different appearance of our front line this year. (Of course, if their press is on and he gets a bunch of turnover-induced layups and dunks, even the same good post defense won't suppress his numbers).

[CDu]

I agree with your (and others') suggestion that Booker's performance last game doesn't mean we should expect the same this game. But I think that game has more predictive value than the games from last season given the dramatically different appearance of our front line this year. (Of course, if their press is on and he gets a bunch of turnover-induced layups and dunks, even the same good post defense won't suppress his numbers).

Well with Clemson I don't think any previous game is very predictive of any future game. They are just so inconsistent from game to game. Heck - they are so inconsistent during some games (see the collapse against Illinois and the near-collapse against NC State). At times, they can look like world-beaters, and then at others they can look like a big high-school team. This trickles down to Booker.

But I do agree that we're more prepared to combat Booker than in 2008 and 2009. The Plumlees' improvement and (perhaps more importantly) the decline in quality of Clemson's supporting cast both inside (no Mays, no Sykes) and outside (fewer 3-point threats).

[Saratoga2]

Duke will need to avoid unforced turnovers and limit turnovers of any kind. It will be a loud hostile environment, so Duke needs to keep from becoming rattled.

We also will need to avoid the cheap fouls we sometimes are guilty of. Lance is one who fouls people in no position to score. If Kyle is stripped, he often compounds the problem with a quick retaliation foul. Zoubek just gets called for everything. Someone said if he kept his hands in a more vertical position, he would get less, but he also picks up some with his body. We can live with the fouls of aggressivness and determination with our guys fighting for rebounds or stopping a layup.

If we do both of these things, we know that Clemson will have quite a few turnovers and we should outrebound them. We should also have a higher offensive efficiency. That sounds like a winning strategy.

If however, we have a ton of fouls and are sloppy with the ball, then we could well give them a good chance of winning.

[DurhamMatt]

Longtime browser, first post, , not an alumn or student just a hometown fan. So Clemson does all the things that supposedly bother us. Press, dominent big man, tough road enviornment etc...The national perspective is we are good, not "special". ESPN cant wait to show highlights of Booker throwing it down on us at Littlejohn. Comments on other boards speak of K playing the big 3 39+ min. a game , say we will wear down in march and well you know here we go again. I don't buy that at all... Or do I ? Lets not buy in to the "national perspective". Go to Clemson and win, go to Georgetown and win, then 1 week from today where will we be sitting? High in the polls with our brand spanking new true road wins and 5-2 in the acc. This week is very important

[gumbomoop]

Longtime browser, first post, , not an alumn or student just a hometown fan. So Clemson does all the things that supposedly bother us. Press, dominent big man, tough road enviornment etc...The national perspective is we are good, not "special". ESPN cant wait to show highlights of Booker throwing it down on us at Littlejohn. Comments on other boards speak of K playing the big 3 39+ min. a game , say we will wear down in march and well you know here we go again. I don't buy that at all... Or do I ? Lets not buy in to the "national perspective". Go to Clemson and win, go to Georgetown and win, then 1 week from today where will we be sitting? High in the polls with our brand spanking new true road wins and 5-2 in the acc. This week is very important

Welcome, DM, to Poster World [though as a relative newcomer myself, I'm not on the welcoming committee]. I like the spirit, and want to note what I'm confident so many of us are feeling today: a bit of apprehension [Littlejohn!], a lot of excitement [Littlejohn!]. And just to remind all and sundry, ESPN's College Gameday is from Littlejohn, so get settled in by 11 this morn to hear Digger's wisdom.

I fear we're likely to get Vitale this eve, but if there's any consolation in that, at least his wackiness should match the intensity in Littlejohn.

[DUKIE V(A)]

I expect Duke to come out and play an excellent game and win a tight one in Little John. However, if we lose to Clemson, it will not be lack of effort or player rotations that determines it. It will be because Clemson is a damn good team (last I checked Purnell was still offering scholarships to bigtime talents as well) -- especially at home. I see this as a great opportunity for our team against a tough team with vengence of their mind.

[bird]

Longtime browser, first post, , not an alumn or student just a hometown fan. So Clemson does all the things that supposedly bother us. Press, dominent big man, tough road enviornment etc...The national perspective is we are good, not "special". ESPN cant wait to show highlights of Booker throwing it down on us at Littlejohn. Comments on other boards speak of K playing the big 3 39+ min. a game , say we will wear down in march and well you know here we go again. I don't buy that at all... Or do I ? Lets not buy in to the "national perspective". Go to Clemson and win, go to Georgetown and win, then 1 week from today where will we be sitting? High in the polls with our brand spanking new true road wins and 5-2 in the acc. This week is very important

The story line of most interest to me going into the game is Scheyer. Jon maxes out on the "desire and determination to win" measure of a player. The commentators noted during the NC State game that K challenged Jon to lead. As a senior, he really wants this team to be successful, and it is in a rough patch. Given the circumstances, I would expect that that simple will to win will be at a peak. Does that lead to a 30-10 from him, or overpressing a bit knocking him out of his internal equilibrium (with an assist from the Clemson press and a bit of Clemson physicality with the hands and bump and hard foul at the rim)? Just speculating, but this game may be psychological test of a high order for Scheyer.

Players come and go, many great plays and wins are piled up, but the enduring point of interest for me in college basketball is just watching how players respond to the ludicrous situations we create for them. And this is a biggie.

[Steve68]

I have one small favor to ask of Andre Dawkins for this game. DO SOMETHING!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

You are a talented player. Get on the court, have some fun and let loose. For him to go 6 games in a row without a 3 pointer is absurd. He has to be a contributor.

If he is going to contribute, he needs to do two things (other than hitting 3's) that he has not done at all this year: move without the ball and play solid defense. Coaching should be able to resolve both of these issues, but the season is half over and we still haven't seen either of these attributes from him. Let's hope something clicks for him soon.

[BlueintheFace]

I'd say maybe 5 teams in America could win this game.... this will be hugely impressive if we win

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Longtime browser, first post, , not an alumn or student just a hometown fan. So Clemson does all the things that supposedly bother us. Press, dominent big man, tough road enviornment etc...The national perspective is we are good, not "special". ESPN cant wait to show highlights of Booker throwing it down on us at Littlejohn. Comments on other boards speak of K playing the big 3 39+ min. a game , say we will wear down in march and well you know here we go again. I don't buy that at all... Or do I ? Lets not buy in to the "national perspective". Go to Clemson and win, go to Georgetown and win, then 1 week from today where will we be sitting? High in the polls with our brand spanking new true road wins and 5-2 in the acc. This week is very important


What a way to make a splash! Seriously, good post. I was thinking the same thing with regards to this week. We need to make a statement and this is by far the week to do it with 2 tough road games. We're not going to die away if we don't win, but the national perspective says that we will. Let's go Duke, strap em on and grind out some wins away from home. They are so much more rewarding than winning at Cameron.

[YourLandlord]

I'd say maybe 5 teams in America could win this game.... this will be hugely impressive if we win

Vegas has Duke favored by 1.5

[ScreechTDX1847]

We will need to hit some pereimter shots tonight. Well, really, any ACC road win we are going to have to shoot a decent % from three.

[CAT Blue Devil]

I am just very, very glad that College Gameday leads the game tonight. I am oh so tired of joining the telecast with 8 minutes to go in the first half!

Not to mention it sets up Clemson for an emotional overdose. Go Duke!

[Kedsy]

Longtime browser, first post, , not an alumn or student just a hometown fan. So Clemson does all the things that supposedly bother us. Press, dominent big man, tough road enviornment etc...The national perspective is we are good, not "special". ESPN cant wait to show highlights of Booker throwing it down on us at Littlejohn. Comments on other boards speak of K playing the big 3 39+ min. a game , say we will wear down in march and well you know here we go again. I don't buy that at all... Or do I ? Lets not buy in to the "national perspective". Go to Clemson and win, go to Georgetown and win, then 1 week from today where will we be sitting? High in the polls with our brand spanking new true road wins and 5-2 in the acc. This week is very important

Well, in order to be 5-2 one week from now we also have to beat Florida State on Wednesday, which is probably not going to be a cakewalk. Not saying we won't win, but I think they're dangerous and shouldn't be overlooked.

My view is take one game at a time, starting with Clemson tonight, and not worry about the next one until it comes. I assume the team and coaching staff feel the same way.

[BlueintheFace]

Vegas has Duke favored by 1.5

and...

[Wander]

I'd say maybe 5 teams in America could win this game....

You mean like a 7 loss mediocre Big Ten team? :)

(I agree, it'll still be a very impressive win).

[BlueintheFace]

You mean like a 7 loss mediocre Big Ten team? :)

(I agree, it'll still be a very impressive win).

No, I don't think a 7 loss mediocre Big Ten Team could beat Clemson at home right now.

[YourLandlord]

and...

You posted it would be "an extremely impressive win."

I disagree, as does Vegas -- we are expected to win this game >50% of the time, as we are favored by 1.5 pts. Either way, it's close to a wash.

Plus, this is a team we beat by 20 less than three weeks ago.

I hope our standards have not slipped so that a win versus Clemson (CLEMSON!) would be "extremely impressive."

[Bob Green]

I hope our standards have not slipped so that a win versus Clemson (CLEMSON!) would be "extremely impressive."

It is not an issue of our standards slipping, but rather a situation of Clemson being a much improved program. Oliver Purnell is doing a great job at Clemson and turning the Tigers into a top echelon team. A win against Clemson at Littlejohn will be extremely impressive.

[YourLandlord]

A win against Clemson at Littlejohn will be extremely impressive.

I guess I just think it's difficult to classify beating a team we already beat by 20 points as 'extremely impressive.'

agree to disagree though.

[sagegrouse]

I guess I just think it's difficult to classify beating a team we already beat by 20 points as 'extremely impressive.'

agree to disagree though.

With Duke's road record this year, I would say a win would be "extremely impressive.":rolleyes:

sagegrouse

[BlueintheFace]

You posted it would be "an extremely impressive win."

I disagree, as does Vegas -- we are expected to win this game >50% of the time, as we are favored by 1.5 pts. Either way, it's close to a wash.

Plus, this is a team we beat by 20 less than three weeks ago.

I hope our standards have not slipped so that a win versus Clemson (CLEMSON!) would be "extremely impressive."

"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."

-David Hume

Clemson has looked pretty impressive to me recently, on the road and at home. However, Clemson has looked almost unstoppable at home recently.

[Oriole Way]

Coach K seems to really have his teams to play when he has more than 2 days off to prepare for a big road game. I expect that Duke will be much better on both sides of the ball tonight.

I will be looking for two things tonight: a decreased role for Kyle Singler on offense (in terms of perimeter shots and drives to the rim), and an increased emphasis on Nolan Smith.

I really hope that Kyle Singler begins to cut down on his shot attempts for the time being. He has struggled in big games all season, and now he has a banged up wrist. I also suspect he might still be feeling the affects of a sprained ankle since late December. I believe Kyle needs to do a better job of looking to set up his teammates. I also would like to see him post up a lot more, especially since more often than not he will be guarded by a smaller defender. He posted up a few times in the first game against NC State with good success, then went away from that in favor of long distance jumpers and drives to the basket which resulted in bad turnovers a few times.

I hope that Nolan Smith becomes even more of a focal point on offense. Besides being the only player to play decently against NC State, Nolan has been shooting well all season from the field and from 3. Nolan may not be our most talented player (Singler or Plumlee), or our most important (Scheyer), but he is our best scorer. He is our only player who can penetrate consistently, and ideally I would like to see him get a few of the shots which Singler will pass up.

As part of Kyle making his shot selection more efficient and post-oriented and Nolan becoming more featured as the main scoring option, I really hope the upperclassman start looking to get Miles, Mason, and Dawkins more involved when they are in the game. It makes Duke less reliant on the Big 3, it helps those younger guys develop, and it makes Duke more balanced. Ultimately, I think it will make Duke better.

I really think Duke comes out with a great effort tonight and that we will win, especially if some of those adjustments are made.

[moonpie23]

amborse bierce defines being "positive" as "mistaken at the top of one's voice"

[Verga3]

It is not an issue of our standards slipping, but rather a situation of Clemson being a much improved program. Oliver Purnell is doing a great job at Clemson and turning the Tigers into a top echelon team. A win against Clemson at Littlejohn will be extremely impressive.

Couldn't agree more, Bob. Ollie Purnell is a fine man and coach. He seems to have his guys believing they are good.....and they are. Would be a solid road win tonight against a potential Elite 8 squad.

[RelativeWays]

I think this is easily the most important game of the season. Combining the surprising loss to state, the complete lack of road wins and going into a place a lot of people consider the scariest place to play, not to mention memories of the complete domination Clemson handed Duke last year.

We know that Duke can beat Clemson, and beat them effectively. We know that if a team can completely take Duke out of offensive and defensive sync, the can be defeated easily (as seen by Wiscy and State). This game is a character defining game for this team. Great Duke teams responded to adversity with zeal and ferocity. Average ones were timid or tentative, what will this team be?

[Osiagledknarf]

Is the offcial game thread?

[strawbs]

This is an extremely important game imo. with FSU coming up (who always plays duke tough) and then another road contest at georgetown who is playing very well right now, it is important to have a good showing tonight and prove we can win on the road, and also have confidence going into those two games.
I think it will be extremely important to either win the first 4 minutes or play it essentially even in order to keep the crowd out of it. I think as long as duke plays smart, takes care of the ball and can knock down 5-7 threes they should come out of littlejohn with a win. Clemson is going to turn the ball over and they don't shoot free throws all that well, so if it's close i think duke has the edge.
Hopefully duke shows up tonight and comes home with a W.

[Greg_Newton]

Booker is going to come out like a monster tonight. Remember after the Singler jawing at our place how he said "Don't worry, I'll get him back at my place." I think a big key will be containing him in the early going, and not letting him establish himself as a man among boys. Miles and Mason avoiding early foul trouble will also be key... they play completely differently when they pick up a couple early ones.

Earth, Wind & Scheyer just haven't looked like they've been having much fun playing basketball recently. Here's hoping they enjoy the moment and rise up to the occasion tonight.

[Kedsy]

I'm worried about the kids feeling too much pressure, but K is the master motivator, so hopefully he'll focus the nerviousness into productive energy. To be honest, I'm a little nervous too. Can't wait.

[riverside6]

Live Tempo-Based Stats for Clemson/Duke here...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=3781

Starters are posted, no change for Duke.

[PSurprise]

Thank god for the mute button

[superdave]

This feels like a big game tonight!

[YourLandlord]

what are those yellow/orange rectangles we have on our jerseys tonight?

[_Gary]

This feels like a big game tonight!

Absolutely. Coach K and this team know it's a huge game! And not just because it's the next game on the schedule. It's bigger than that. This could be, I stress "could" (as opposed to "is"), a watershed game.

[dalmatians98]

Thank god for the mute button

LOL. Another Dicky V fan.

[_Gary]

Nolan picks up his second foul after less than 8 minutes and has to sit. That could be real trouble.

[dairedevil]

what are those yellow/orange rectangles we have on our jerseys tonight?

Save Haiti

[Hermy-own]

Our ball sharing is pretty weak tonight. Our offense is disintigrating at the moment. So far it is all big 3 trying to make plays. I've seen Scheyer, Singler and Smith all be selfish. Actually, Smith is doing the best of the 3 so far in not overreaching. Also, we are picking up too many cheap fouls.

[cbnaylor]

Can someone please tell me why Scheyer will not keep dribbling? There has been at least three incidents where Scheyer could have gotten up the court instead of picking up his dribble.

[_Gary]

Wow. Very quite here tonight. Is everyone at Little John?

Nolan's back in playing with 2 fouls after only sitting about 3 minutes. Funny, but I'm not sure Andre even came in when Smith went out. If he was I missed him.

The Duke defense has been pretty solid thus far. Our hedges have been great and over all I'm quite pleased with this facet of the game tonight through the first 12 minutes. The offense has had some problems with the pressure though. Guess that's not a shock. We need to hit a few open 3's.

[Verga3]

If we play defense with more intensity convert that effort to points we win this game. It begins with D.

[cbnaylor]

This score is starting to look like old school ball with no shot clock.

[PSurprise]

Yeah, this is brutal to watch on the offensive end

[ajgoodfella7]

I just wish Singler would stop dribbling the ball into triple teams.

[cbnaylor]

This is a game where we miss G!

[PSurprise]

This is a game where we miss G!

I think we miss G every game

[pfrduke]

I think we can all be done (to the extent we ever were this season) talking about this team as one that lives/dies by the 3. We look inside, inside, inside more than any Duke team in recent memory. It's not necessarily through post entry passes, but as guards, Scheyer and Smith love to operate in the paint, Singler likes playing elbow in, etc. I really like that, even when the offense is struggling, we continue to attack the interior of the court to look for our scores.

[tele]

Without G, teams are more able to double team Singler when he tries to drive.

[freshmanjs]

Where is Dawkins?

[ice-9]

I'd like to see Nolan take more shots this game...

Lance playing well so far! We should get the ball through him as well.

[_Gary]

I have to admit I'm really surprised to see that Ryan got run in the first half and Andre sat the bench the entire time. Not sure what the deal is but it's strange to me, especially considering Nolan picked up 2 early fouls and had to sit a little. :confused:

[dukebballcamper90-91]

no intensity once again, no fire. I don't know if it is our D or is Klumpson that bad of a shooting team.

[Duke79UNLV77]

on any type of a consistent basis. That's a major problem.

We may end up winning, and it would be a huge road win, but this is the 4th straight road game where we've come out looking very mediocre at best.

People still sky-high on State after today?

[AlaskanAssassin]

Surprisingly Kelly is getting playing time rather than Dawkins. Going big with Singler moving to the 2. Interesting.

[lpd1982]

Where is Dawkins?
I believe, just my observation, that Dawkins tweaked his ankle two games ago and may be nursing it somewhat.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

RIP Gaines Adams

[pfrduke]

no intensity once again, no fire. I don't know if it is our D or is Klumpson that bad of a shooting team.

No idea how you can say we're not playing with intensity on D. This is an incredibly intense game on both sides of the ball - both defenses are really dictating the way the game is being played.

[roywhite]

no intensity once again, no fire. I don't know if it is our D or is Klumpson that bad of a shooting team.

No, playing good defense and showing intensity, just not quite executing on offense.

If Zoubs could corral a couple balls in close, and finish...it would make a huge difference.

Not pretty, but I like our chances in the second half.

[jv001]

Without G, teams are more able to double team Singler when he tries to drive.

Who is G? Not Greg Paulus or Gerald Henderson is it? They're not coming thru that door. If we had played defense against State like we're playing tonight we would have come away with a win. Both teams playing good defense. Looks like Coach K has instructed Kyle to take it to the basket and lay off so many 3s. Need Jon and Nolan to hit a few to get us started. Go Duke!

[PSurprise]

Ball movement. That's where we've done well on the offensive end. When it's one-on-one, the result is not-so-good.

[lpd1982]

I think that being even up in this game going into the second half is a plus. I was worried about first half.Homecourt advantage can die down and we can move on with business. I am hopeful if we can stay out of serious fould trouble.

[superdave]

All D no O tonight. Makes from some intense basketball. Clemson puts you in uncomfortable situations.

We are scoring off broken plays and stick backs and cheap buckets. Not much in the flow of the O.

Andre has not been in the game at all. I'd hate to see him get buried. Maybe it's just a matchup thing, but he needs to be getting in there. We need him! The Plums are off tonight too.

[roywhite]

Shulman and Vitale may drive me nuts. Non-stop talking, and repeating some of the same things. Yeah, I get we haven't won a true road game this year; heard it the first twenty times.

[Saratoga2]

So far, Zoubek's offense is poor. He can't seem to hit from 3 feet away and brings the ball down. You have to assume that either of the Plumlees would make those shots, but then again, they made nothing. Both Scheyer and Singler are not shooting well at all, while Smith looks like he could score given some looks. Singler plays close to out of conttol and does turn the ball over more than he should but he does other things so well and can scored inside. Too many turnovers are hurting us but our defense is very good tonight.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

we look like the other night against state just glad klumpson ain't looking like state

[Verga3]

Thank goodness Clemson is shooting worse than us. We need to create some turnovers with our defense. They will not continue to miss all night. Need some pop. I'm thinking Dre in the second half with his break-out game. Let's go boys!

[strawbs]

ugh... what an ugly half. At least the defense has been pretty solid, and not a no show like the nc state game.

I don't think the refs have been all that bad by any means, but was it just me or was mason's 2nd foul a rather weak call?

After zoubek got called for a walk early in the game i was going to post that this particular game is probably too fast and physical for him. Then during his next time on the court he grabbed a board and made a nice assist to a cutter down the lane. Then at the end of the half he missed an easy bunny because he can't elevate more then 4 inches off the ground. As much as zoubek has improved this year and has contributed, when he travels and misses bunnies i want to pull my hair out.

Last thing, where has andre been? with our offense struggling, why not put him out there for a few minutes. He could thrive in a game like this, if we can beat the press it should be easy to find a guy spotting up on the perimeter.

[jv001]

I have to think as the other poster said, Dre has a bad ankle. Was limping in the last game and this game is not a for an injured freshman. Go Duke!

[jv001]

we look like the other night against state just glad klumpson ain't looking like state

We play this kind of "D" against State and we win walking away. Go Duke!

[dairedevil]

I watched a little of the UGA/TN game this afternoon. There is NO comparison in the defensive intensity of the games. It's almost like watching a different sport. Granted, UGA was playing a good bit of zone, forcing TN to spread the floor ( and turn over the ball). I'm getting a little tired of the physical rugby match games that we've been playing since GA Tech. It seems to destroy any offensive flow.

[Indoor66]

Thank god for the mute button

Here, here. I have used it OFTEN.

[AlaskanAssassin]

Every time Vitale does a duke game, he gives a shout out to Irving. nice!

[jv001]

Something that worries me is Zoubs foul shooting. He shot the ball well from the line last year, but this year is struggling. I hope he can be stronger with the ball and make the basket and get the ft. Go Duke!

[IrishDevil]

It seemed we ended up running cutters off Z a few times in the first half. It might be interesting to see what Mason, or even Ryan, could do from a high post position if that is one way we are looking to solve our offensive woes.

[lpd1982]

I like this strong start. Important.

[Verga3]

Our D has been good, but we have not initiated anything out of it yet. Clemson's poor shooting is more responsible for the numbers than our defense has been. We need to body/hand challenge this Clemson team more closely and make things even more difficult for them on the offensive end. Low-scoring halfs are not always indicative of defensive excellence.

[PSurprise]

So, I hear that Duke hasn't won a true road game, is that true??

<sarcasm>

[dukebballcamper90-91]

dang chicago, I had to look twice at the name above your post cause I thought I wrote that. I agree with everything you said, OMG!

[lpd1982]

I am tired of the true road game mantra. A neutral site that is five states away and has half a stadium filled with opponents' fans is more like tourney play than Cameron so, road game shmode game. Read about Duke's having one fewer days to prepare than our opponents. Now that's a trend!

[Duke76]

and get them to review that other 3 they didn't see;;;;
that 1 point may be crucial

[dairedevil]

Just when the offense begins to get in a rhythm, the officals take what seems like 45 minutes to determine that Nolan really was behind the 3 point arc. AAAAARGH!!!

[Kfanarmy]

I like vitales version of the 3 Ss: Super, Scintillating and Sensational...haven't heard anything better

[cbnaylor]

Can someone tell Dickie V....it's Earth, Wind, and Scheyer!

[Verga3]

and get them to review that other 3 they didn't see;;;;
that 1 point may be crucial

Anyone know the rule on when a review must be called for (and who has to call for it). Scheyer's was clearly a 3.

[-jk]

and get them to review that other 3 they didn't see;;;;
that 1 point may be crucial

Alas, it's no longer correctable. There's a fairly limited window.

-jk

[cbnaylor]

I watch a lot of Duke games alone and I just want to know by other fellow Duke fans, how many times do you yell at Zoubek to Jump?

[lpd1982]

If its a Nolan game he usually goes for 20+. Let's go Wind!

[ice-9]

and get them to review that other 3 they didn't see;;;;
that 1 point may be crucial

Especially since Duke is only giving 1!

[duke09hms]

Great start to the 2nd half!
Nolan is looking like the real NBA prospect on this team
The only good thing about Kyle's play (bad decisions, weak wrap-around pass attempts) is that he'll be back next year, hopefully better at playing the SF position

[strawbs]

"I watch a lot of Duke games alone and I just want to know by other fellow Duke fans, how many times do you yell at Zoubek to Jump?"

I don't yell, but i do a lot of eye rolling and cussing under my breath.

I just have to remember how much he's improved this year, and take the bad with the good

[Wander]

Alas, it's no longer correctable. There's a fairly limited window.

-jk

Is this a recent rule change? In the title game a few years ago, they (correctly) changed a Kansas 2 to a 3, but it was quite a while after the fact.

[lpd1982]

"I watch a lot of Duke games alone and I just want to know by other fellow Duke fans, how many times do you yell at Zoubek to Jump?"

Never, because life is too short to ask for the impossible , just appreciate the improvement and love the beard.

[cbnaylor]

I don't know what K said, but Duke is attacking in the second half on offense. da da da da I'm loving it!

[rotogod00]

the longer they play w/o a whistle, the more booker stays on the bench

[lpd1982]

Time to start using up a wee bit a the clock.

[Verga3]

The defense has birthed the offense in the second half. Impressive. This is more like Duke Bball. Hope they can continue to dig and gut it out to the end. Tough, important game for our guys.

[superdave]

We must have spent a few hours of practice on beating this press. Looks good.

Nolan heated up!

[IrishDevil]

For crying out loud, can Scheyer get 1.5 points for that shot? Sheesh...

[dairedevil]

Been a while since Singler or Scheyer hae scored. Hope they can get it going, too...Thank goodness for Nolan.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Zoubs gets a bad rap from Duke fans. Dude plays hard, gets boards, and makes it tough for the opposition to score.

Lance too. He is playing an outstanding game tonight.

Obviously, Smith is killin' it.

I would love a Scheyer back-breaking three at the end of a shot clock about now

[lpd1982]

Nolan heated up!


He's got at least four more in the tank. Let's go Nolan!

[ice-9]

We must have spent a few hours of practice on beating this press. Looks good.

Nolan heated up!

He's doing more than heating up -- he's creating his shot, penetrating to the basket, and just generally taking good shots.

C'mon Scheyer, make those open 3s...

[DUKIE V(A)]

Suffocating D by our Devils!

[dairedevil]

I'll take a Singler dunk with a few seconds left on the clock

[rotogod00]

singler can dunk? we don't see that inside play enough outta him

[lpd1982]

. Are we officially in a Scheyer shooting slump??

Aaah, no slump talk until this game is in the bag. Five more minutes.

[PSurprise]

stall ball!!

[rotogod00]

another irving mention

[DUKIE V(A)]

I'll take a Singler dunk with a few seconds left on the clock

I'll settle for that. :D

[rotogod00]

take this below 4 mins

[lpd1982]

Jon doesn't foul.

[ice-9]

Aaah, no slump talk until this game is in the bag. Five more minutes.

You read my mind! Had immediately edited my post...

[cbnaylor]

Let's finally put the road game woes behind us! Let's go Duke!

[lpd1982]

C'mon Nolan, take that lead back up.

[rotogod00]

huge, huge shot

[DUKIE V(A)]

Scheyer is a stud!

[rotogod00]

another 30 secs here

[DUKIE V(A)]

D, rebounds, and free throws will close this out.

[cbnaylor]

When these boys want to win, they win! I've got a good feeling about this squad. Through good and bad.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Clemson -- Time to tap out!

[rotogod00]

way to knock em down lance

[Verga3]

D, rebounds, and free throws will close this out.


Ditto....and we should get some free throw practice before we win this.

[rotogod00]

just make em from the stripe and this one's history

[dairedevil]

Folks, it ain't over till it's over...Clemson still has time for a miracle. Anybody remember gone in 54?

[rotogod00]

way to follow

[DUKIE V(A)]

Huge, gutty win...

[lpd1982]

This time last year K took the last timetout to have the team stare at the scorebard for the whole time. Nolan said that was his worst basketball moment ever. Fully excized!

[cbnaylor]

So the question is, does Duke stay in the top 10?

[ice-9]

LOL @ Lance!

But this game was won by both Nolan and Lance. Great job boys!!

[rotogod00]

another irving mention

[dairedevil]

Glad to see it! NOw maybe they'll stop talking about losing on the road

[Duvall]

So does this mean Lance gets to keep his scholarship? Just checking.

[rotogod00]

So the question is, does Duke stay in the top 10?

not sure it really matter. just getting a win on the road against a top 20 team is HUGE

[AlaskanAssassin]

Great win!