PDA

View Full Version : When is the last time the ACC didn't have a single top 10 team?



Duke79UNLV77
01-20-2010, 11:13 PM
After tonight's game, we deserve to be knocked out of the top 10 mid-week. The league is really, really mediocre this year. Not a lot of bad teams, but no one particularly good.

Welcome2DaSlopes
01-20-2010, 11:15 PM
UK might disagree with you on your last sentence.

CLW
01-20-2010, 11:18 PM
next week there will be no one from the acc in the top 10. to me it looks like Georgia Tech has the most potential in the ACC this year to make a run in March. however, i agree that just about everyone has major flaws this year including Kentucky.

Vincetaylor
01-20-2010, 11:22 PM
I challenge anyone to come up with a season when the conference was as bad as it is this year. I'd be pretty surprised if we put a single team in the Elite 8. Just because the league is competitive doesn't mean its good. The Big Ten beat us in the challenge. The Big East would absolutely destroy us if we had a challenge with them.

Duke79UNLV77
01-20-2010, 11:24 PM
UK might disagree with you on your last sentence.

I meant no one in the ACC is great. Not that UK has necessarily earned that title yet -- they should have lost to Stanford and others -- but I agree that they can get there.

Duvall
01-20-2010, 11:30 PM
I challenge anyone to come up with a season when the conference was as bad as it is this year.

Oh, please. 2000, and it isn't even close.

Vincetaylor
01-20-2010, 11:44 PM
Oh, please. 2000, and it isn't even close.

Come back to me at the end of the year and we'll see how wrong you are. That year the ACC finished with 2 teams in the Sweet 16 and one in the Final 4. It won't do that well this year. We'll get more than the 3 bids we got that year, but they won't do much. Find another year in the 1990's or 1980's for your argument. Even if you do end up being right at the end of the year(which you won't)...the second worst year in 30 years is pretty damn bad, so don't give me this "oh please" crap.

Duke79UNLV77
01-20-2010, 11:44 PM
2000 maybe in terms of depth, but at the top i'd say our 2000 team was stronger. very young, but absolutely loaded with talent. could have far if dunleavy hadn't come down with mono. there were 4 players on the 2000 team that seem pretty clearly more talented than anyone on this team.

pamtar
01-21-2010, 12:02 AM
WhenTF did Kentucky join the ACC?

JonnyWonder
01-21-2010, 12:06 AM
2000 maybe in terms of depth, but at the top i'd say our 2000 team was stronger. very young, but absolutely loaded with talent. could have far if dunleavy hadn't come down with mono. there were 4 players on the 2000 team that seem pretty clearly more talented than anyone on this team.

LOADED with talent. Silly me, my freshman year was 1999-2000. I thought every year at Duke dudes like J-Will, Boozer and Dunleavy show up at Bassett in the fall. Each year since I graduated I appreciate more just how special that crew was.

CDu
01-21-2010, 12:11 AM
LOADED with talent. Silly me, my freshman year was 1999-2000. I thought every year at Duke dudes like J-Will, Boozer and Dunleavy show up at Bassett in the fall. Each year since I graduated I appreciate more just how special that crew was.

Yeah, Coach K had an amazing recruiting run (in terms of NBA talent) from 1997-1999. Battier, Brand, Maggette, Williams, Dunleavy, and Boozer, with Jones transferring in as well. That's seven NBA starters. Just an amazing three-year recruiting run.

Eternal Outlaw
01-21-2010, 02:04 AM
I grabbed my ESPN College Basketball Encyclopedia and went year by year backwards since they do have the weekly polls in every year. Unless I missed one somewhere, the last time no ACC team was in the top ten in either poll was the 1995-96 season, the week of Feb 26th.

Kentucky
UMass
Kansas
UConn
Purdue
Nova/Cincy were 6/7 depending on poll
G'Town/Texas Tech were 8/9 depending on poll
Utah

Wake Forest was highest ACC team at 13/12. The next week, Wake climbed into the USA Top Ten at 10 (12 in AP) and a week later they sat at #9 in both polls.

dukeENG2003
01-21-2010, 08:26 AM
A win on the road against clemson, and I'm not so sure we drop out of the top 10. This team still has final four potential IMO.

gw67
01-21-2010, 08:34 AM
I've always thought the 2002-2003 year was a weak year for the ACC. Only three teams got NCAAT bids and the remaining six teams were very average. The weakness of the league that year was reflected in the 1st team All ACC:

Howard
Hodge
Blake
Jones
Scott

Nice players all but not a one that I would consider when discussing the all decade team.

I happen to think that there are 7-8 pretty good teams this year and as evidenced last night, you can't sleep on the other 4 teams. What makes it really seem like a down year is the ineptness of UNC. I suspect that they will have a difficult time finishing 9-7 in the league and will be on the bubble for the NCAAT.

gw67

NYDukie
01-21-2010, 09:39 AM
Brought up this point in the NCState post game thread. You look up and down the list of teams, and if you are unbiased in your analysis, you will see #1) no true stand out team [there is no Duke (Brand, JWill, Battier or JJ led stud team), UNC (May, Felton, Tyler or Lawson type teams) nor Maryland (Dixon, Baxter or Blake), #2) a lot of solid, if unspectacular teams, take your choice and #3) no national player of the year types, my apologies to the current Scheyer backers and the Kyle backers from before the start of year. There aren't really that many NBA level types I would go crazy about either right now. Yes, there are a # of freshman/sophmore types who have NBA talent but no one has really showed off the "wow" factor. Unless this Duke takes the next step and improves some its flaws (which I think it can do and make a tourney run depending on matchups), I think we are in line for a disappointing tourney run as a conference on a whole this year.

Olympic Fan
01-21-2010, 11:25 AM
I also checked out the AP poll results and came up with a slightly different answer than Eternal Outlaw -- My list shows that in the Feb. 26 poll of 1996, Wake was 13, Georgia Tech was 18, UNC was 19.

Were you looking at the USA Today weekly rankings? That would explain the discrepancy.

A week later (Mar. 4), Wake moved up to 12, Ga Tech remained at 18 and UNC dropped to 20. It was the next (and final) AP poll of the year that saw Wake move to No. 9, Ga Tech at No. 13 and UNC drop to No. 25.

The ACC has had a top 10 team in every AP poll since -- by my count, that's 244 straight polls through last week.

There have been some close calls:

-- In 2003, Duke spent all year in the top 10, but dropped to No. 12 in the Mar. 12 poll. But Wake, which started the year unranked had been slowly climbing (they ended up winning the regular season title) reached No. 9 on Mar. 3 and held that spot on Mar. 10. BTW, when Duke won the ACC Tourney, they climbed back to No. 7 in the final poll, just ahead of No. 8 Wake.

-- There was also a dangerous couple of weeks early in the 2000 season. Duke started the year No. 10, but dropped to No. 18 after opening with two losses in Madison Square Garden. The Devils wouldn't lose again to Feb., but they didn't crack the top 10 against until Dec. 20. UNC started the year at No. 6, but and slowly slid out of the rankings in late January, ever to return. But they remained in the top 10 until Dec. 27 -- one week after Duke's return to the top 10.

Next week's poll will be interesting. No question that if Duke loses at Clemson Saturday -- a very distinct possibility -- the Devils will drop out of the top 10. But if Duke wins in Littlejohn, I suspect they'll stay in the top 10 (weekend outcomes always have more impact than midweek or early week games).

We'll just have to wait and see.

Eternal Outlaw
01-21-2010, 01:09 PM
I also checked out the AP poll results and came up with a slightly different answer than Eternal Outlaw -- My list shows that in the Feb. 26 poll of 1996, Wake was 13, Georgia Tech was 18, UNC was 19.

Were you looking at the USA Today weekly rankings? That would explain the discrepancy.



The ESPN encyclopedia lists both major polls so I looked for the first instance that an ACC team was out of both. Going by just the AP, then yes, March 4th poll would be the correct answer.

The OP didn't specify a poll so I just went ahead and looked for a week where it was neither.

pfrduke
01-21-2010, 01:31 PM
Next week's poll will be interesting. No question that if Duke loses at Clemson Saturday -- a very distinct possibility -- the Devils will drop out of the top 10. But if Duke wins in Littlejohn, I suspect they'll stay in the top 10 (weekend outcomes always have more impact than midweek or early week games).

We'll just have to wait and see.

Wins also seem to have more impact than losses. Voters appear to be more impressed (and I think rightly so) by a team's ability to beat a good team on the road than unimpressed by a team's ability to get beat by a weaker team on the road (i.e., beating Clemson would do more good than losing to the Wolfpack did harm).

Gewebe14
01-21-2010, 09:42 PM
Gonzaga is 10th in one of the polls, I think it is unlikely we drop below them if we beat Clemson. Same number of losses and a head to head thrashing. However, I guess some teams below Gonzaga could pass both teams.

CDu
01-22-2010, 09:46 AM
Gonzaga is 10th in one of the polls, I think it is unlikely we drop below them if we beat Clemson. Same number of losses and a head to head thrashing. However, I guess some teams below Gonzaga could pass both teams.

None of the teams in the 11-13 spots really stood out. If we lose to Clemson, I think we'll fall out of the top-10 just because it's hard to justify keeping a team in the top-10 when they lose twice in a week. But if we beat a top-20 team on their home floor this weekend, I suspect that will more than offset losing badly at State given that everybody in the 11-15 has flaws.

airowe
01-22-2010, 04:03 PM
None of the teams in the 11-13 spots really stood out. If we lose to Clemson, I think we'll fall out of the top-10 just because it's hard to justify keeping a team in the top-10 when they lose twice in a week. But if we beat a top-20 team on their home floor this weekend, I suspect that will more than offset losing badly at State given that everybody in the 11-15 has flaws.

Carolina lost to CoC, then beat Virginia Tech at home and only fell one spot IIRC.

pfrduke
01-22-2010, 04:15 PM
Carolina lost to CoC, then beat Virginia Tech at home and only fell one spot IIRC.

They went from 9/9 to 12/13. But your point is well taken - W@Clemson + L@NC St > W v. Va Tech + L@CoC, and the corresponding poll movement should reflect that.

Of course, the polls don't exist in the abstract, and relative performance of the teams around us is relevant. #11 already lost this week, and #12 and #13 have difficult Saturday games.

CDu
01-22-2010, 04:20 PM
They went from 9/9 to 12/13. But your point is well taken - W@Clemson + L@NC St > W v. Va Tech + L@CoC, and the corresponding poll movement should reflect that.

Of course, the polls don't exist in the abstract, and relative performance of the teams around us is relevant. #11 already lost this week, and #12 and #13 have difficult Saturday games.

Right. If we win at Clemson, we'll almost certainly stay in the top-10. If we lose at Clemson, it's very possible that we fall out of the top-10 with two losses in the week.

Of course, as you note, if the teams just outside the top-10 all lose, perhaps we hang around by virtue of everybody having a bad week. I doubt that a team in the ~#15 range will leapfrog us when we were #7/8.

Vincetaylor
01-31-2010, 12:21 AM
Will the ACC be down to two teams in the top 25? Duke and Georgia Tech? I guess Maryland has a decent shot at making it 3. Assuming UConn falls out of the top 25, Duke will be 1-3(Gonzaga, Wisconsin, Tech, Gtown) against the top 25. Georgia Tech would be 1-0(Duke). Maryland would be 0-2(Wisconsin, Villanova). By my count, based on what I think next week's Top 25 will be, the ACC only has 4 wins against non-conference top 25 teams. UNC(Ohio State, Michigan State), Duke(Gonzaga), Wake(Gonzaga). This is pretty terrible. The conference hasn't really proven anything so far. Sadly, UNC is the only team that has proven it can hang with the elite teams. I still expect them to fold early in the tourney though. Once again, I can't think of a season when the ACC has been this bad. Parity does not equal good.

DukieTiger
01-31-2010, 12:58 AM
Will the ACC be down to two teams in the top 25? Duke and Georgia Tech? I guess Maryland has a decent shot at making it 3. Assuming UConn falls out of the top 25, Duke will be 1-3(Gonzaga, Wisconsin, Tech, Gtown) against the top 25. Georgia Tech would be 1-0(Duke). Maryland would be 0-2(Wisconsin, Villanova). By my count, based on what I think next week's Top 25 will be, the ACC only has 4 wins against non-conference top 25 teams. UNC(Ohio State, Michigan State), Duke(Gonzaga), Wake(Gonzaga). This is pretty terrible. The conference hasn't really proven anything so far. Sadly, UNC is the only team that has proven it can hang with the elite teams. I still expect them to fold early in the tourney though. Once again, I can't think of a season when the ACC has been this bad. Parity does not equal good.

Not that it matters, but Clemson over Butler

Vincetaylor
01-31-2010, 01:07 AM
Not that it matters, but Clemson over Butler

Yep. You're right. I was looking at the AP for my numbers.

NYDukie
01-31-2010, 04:51 PM
Will the ACC be down to two teams in the top 25? Duke and Georgia Tech? I guess Maryland has a decent shot at making it 3. Assuming UConn falls out of the top 25, Duke will be 1-3(Gonzaga, Wisconsin, Tech, Gtown) against the top 25. Georgia Tech would be 1-0(Duke). Maryland would be 0-2(Wisconsin, Villanova). By my count, based on what I think next week's Top 25 will be, the ACC only has 4 wins against non-conference top 25 teams. UNC(Ohio State, Michigan State), Duke(Gonzaga), Wake(Gonzaga). This is pretty terrible. The conference hasn't really proven anything so far. Sadly, UNC is the only team that has proven it can hang with the elite teams. I still expect them to fold early in the tourney though. Once again, I can't think of a season when the ACC has been this bad. Parity does not equal good.

Lot's of solid, good teams but nothing spectacular. When Duke or UNC aren't elite, the conference takes a hit on the national stage. There is no Maryland of the late 90's and early 2000's to provide backup to Duke and UNC. My guess is that the conference will have a lot of 7-9, 8-8 and 9-7 records which will mask the overall weakness of the league in comparisoin to other conferences and allow 5-7 teams in the NCAAs and then have all, if maybe one standing after the first weekend. With some luck, maybe 2 teams in the Sweet 16.

flyingdutchdevil
02-01-2010, 06:35 AM
It's not just the ACC that's terrible - the whole NCAA field isn't impressive this year. No true elite teams, no amazing conferences (although the Big East has been mightly impressive in the last few weeks), no players-not-named-Wall who the media is obsessed with (compared to Hansblahblah, Flynn, Griffin, etc), etc.

I actually like the fact that the NCAA is so competitive this year. Prediction: there are going to be some crazy, crazy upsets - more than the average year. A 9-seed destroying a 1-seed isn't out of the question this year (when was the last time this happened, anyway?).

Bob Green
02-01-2010, 07:01 AM
A 9-seed destroying a 1-seed isn't out of the question this year (when was the last time this happened, anyway?).

In 2004, #9 UAB defeated #1 Kentucky 76-75 in the second round of the Midwest Regional.

CDu
02-01-2010, 07:33 AM
In 2004, #9 UAB defeated #1 Kentucky 76-75 in the second round of the Midwest Regional.

And in 2006, a #1 seed (UConn) lost to a #11 seed (George Mason). In 2000, a couple of #1 seeds lost in the second round (Stanford and Arizona). In 2002, Cincy lost in the second round as well (though in fairness, they weren't the same team after Kenyon Martin's injury). Seems like every few years there is a big upset of a #1 seed in the tournament. We're due for one of those this year.

throatybeard
02-01-2010, 12:18 PM
In 2002, Cincy lost in the second round as well (though in fairness, they weren't the same team after Kenyon Martin's injury).

Especially not the same, since Martin's last year at Cincinnati was 2000.

brevity
02-01-2010, 01:11 PM
In 2004, #9 UAB defeated #1 Kentucky 76-75 in the second round of the Midwest Regional.

Ten years before that, #9 Boston College (pre-ACC) beat #1 UNC 75-72 in the second round of the East Regional. Particularly stinging as the Final Four was in Charlotte that year. Fortunately, another team was around to represent the ACC.

Good times. I still remember the sign in the stands that said "It's Capel and Hill, not Chapel Hill."