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BlueDevilBaby
05-07-2007, 03:13 PM
voted the best college basketball program for the last 10 years on ESPN.com. They also mention that Duke is shedding the "talent doesn't translate to the NBA" image. Given the discussions on other threads, it's a timely admission by ESPN.com, don't you think?

johnb
05-07-2007, 03:47 PM
I think you're probably right, though it could also be that a) espn likes to vote on stuff, and Duke is the best program, and b) espn is a big tent, and there are probably a few people who are relatively unbiased or even biased in our favor (Dickie V, anyone).

_Gary
05-07-2007, 04:17 PM
espn is a big tent, and there are probably a few people who are relatively unbiased or even biased in our favor (Dickie V, anyone).

Actually, the really surprising thing is that Jay Bilas voted Duke #3 behind UConn and Florida. Then again, I guess that isn't so surprising. :p

Gary

SMO
05-07-2007, 04:58 PM
voted the best college basketball program for the last 10 years on ESPN.com. They also mention that Duke is shedding the "talent doesn't translate to the NBA" image. Given the discussions on other threads, it's a timely admission by ESPN.com, don't you think?

I particularly liked how they pointed out Duke's underperformance in recent NCAA tournaments but didn't mention anything about UConn's last two disasters.

hurleyfor3
05-07-2007, 07:19 PM
Hey, how many Final Fours can we trade that in for?

Cameron
05-07-2007, 07:40 PM
There is such a thing as trying too hard to prove you are unbiased, you know, Jay.

And you do very well at it.

phaedrus
05-07-2007, 09:41 PM
Hey, how many Final Fours can we trade that in for?

i believe we got it for the low price of 3 final fours.

DankeShane
05-08-2007, 01:19 PM
So... they basically just listed the programs that have won national championships in the past decade? The two on the list that didn't win it in the past 10 years a.) won it 11 years ago or are b.) arguably one of the top 3 programs historically of all time.

ESPN, as per usual, an amazingly compelling and insightful piece of journalism.

Classof06
05-08-2007, 02:25 PM
Actually, the really surprising thing is that Jay Bilas voted Duke #3 behind UConn and Florida. Then again, I guess that isn't so surprising. :p

Gary

I'm telling you, Bilas is so much harder on Duke than most fans realize. That's yet another reason why it's time to shed this "ESPN loves Duke" crap. Besides Dickie V, there's not one person that goes out of their way to complement Duke. Katz and Gottlieb trash us whenever they get the chance, Steve Lavin and Hubert Davis complement us when we deserve it, and when Len Elmore calls our games (or any games for that matter), he always gives it impartial and straight down the middle. In fact, Elmore is my favorite college commentator. Anyway, of course this article and the responses ESPN got did nothing but reiterate some Duke hate, though most comments on the article actually conceded that Duke was #1.....save Carolina and Michigan State fans.

Katz wrote a 2nd article saying he had Michigan State #1. Though I don't like Katz, I think MSU is the only other team that can logically be #1; I still don't think Izzo get the respect he deserves. Even though we destroyed them in East Lansing and beat them at home in the '03 and '04 Big Ten/ACC challenges, they did knock us out of the '05 Sweet 16. They also made 3 Final Fours in a row earlier in the decade. In the end, however, nothing is like 9 straight sweet 16s and a period of 7 outta 8 ACC tourney titles...

Cameron
05-08-2007, 02:28 PM
Even though we destroyed them in East Lansing and beat them at home in the '03 and '04 Big Ten/ACC challenges

Since we are discussing the past ten years of college basketball, don't forget that we also beat them in St. Pete during the 1999 Final Four weekend:)

dukemsu
05-09-2007, 12:45 AM
Where MSU falls short to Duke on this list is (as Katz notes) that MSU is something of an NCAA tournament specialist. State has not consistently won Big 10 titles either in the regular season or the tournament, and has often spent its regular seasons sputtering only to find itself late. This has been the case basically since 2001, the end of their 3 straight Final Fours.

Personally, I was shocked that UConn wasn't the #1 ranked program, given the organization doing the rankings.

dukemsu

mepanchin
05-09-2007, 12:37 PM
They also did a top 10 teams of the last decade, and laughably Duke 2001 is down at #5 below 2 UConn champions, the UNC champion and the recent Florida champion. The numbers they use are misleading, and the recency factor is just so obviously prevalent (considering, effectively, the last 3 unique champions are rated among the top 4). 99 UConn is listed because they beat 99 Duke (who would be easily #1 had they won - and had the most impressive numbers by far). Duke 01 had 2 NPOYs, a NDPOY, and 3 other NBA starters in the starting 5 (one of whom, Boozer, is now an all-star). That team lost 4 games, and 3 were by 2 or less. That team had a 26.77 efficiency margin (this year's Florida team and 05's UNC team were both lower). That team won all its tournament games (against good opposition) by over 10 points. #5? Yeah ok.

pfrduke
05-10-2007, 03:34 PM
There is such a thing as trying too hard to prove you are unbiased, you know, Jay.

And you do very well at it.


They also did a top 10 teams of the last decade, and laughably Duke 2001 is down at #5 below 2 UConn champions, the UNC champion and the recent Florida champion.

More fun with Bilas - Jay ranked Duke 2001 as 8th. Below Maryland 2002. Wow.

However, there's one place where a little homerism is still present (even if it's not purely Duke homerism). Bilas is a well documented Amaker defender. In the list of the 10 most underachieving programs of the past decade, 4 of the 5 voters placed Michigan at the top spot. Michigan did not show up at all on Jay's list.

pato
05-10-2007, 04:56 PM
They also did a top 10 teams of the last decade, and laughably Duke 2001 is down at #5 below 2 UConn champions, the UNC champion and the recent Florida champion. The numbers they use are misleading, and the recency factor is just so obviously prevalent (considering, effectively, the last 3 unique champions are rated among the top 4). 99 UConn is listed because they beat 99 Duke (who would be easily #1 had they won - and had the most impressive numbers by far). Duke 01 had 2 NPOYs, a NDPOY, and 3 other NBA starters in the starting 5 (one of whom, Boozer, is now an all-star). That team lost 4 games, and 3 were by 2 or less. That team had a 26.77 efficiency margin (this year's Florida team and 05's UNC team were both lower). That team won all its tournament games (against good opposition) by over 10 points. #5? Yeah ok.

Connecticut's 1999 team lost twice, and if memory serves, both losses were without Hamilton and Voskuhl. I'll have to check that, but I'm sure one of them was w/o them. Also, UConn99 > Duke99 > Duke01.

The 2004 team is harder to argue since they had some bad spots during the regular season. So did UF's first title team, but I understand the argument that a team that is merely only very good throughout the regular season and then is great throughout the playoffs obviously isn't as good as a team that dominates all the way through.

_Gary
05-10-2007, 05:07 PM
I love Jay. I really do. He's a fantastic representative of Duke basketball and I'm very happy that he's got such a prominent spot at ESPN. But no one is ever going to convince me that he doesn't subconsciously rank Duke a little lower than they should be on a consistent level. It's so obvious it isn't even funny. Oh well, ya still gotta love Jay. :)

As for the top 10 greatest teams poll, I'm just mystified at the picks. Call me a homer all you want but I'd still put the '99 Duke team in first place! I don't give a flip whether they won the title that year or not. That's the best team I've seen in the last 15 years - easily. And ranking UNC 05', Florida '07 and Maryland '02 ahead of the 2001 Duke team is just plain silly too. That was a great team.

Gary

Uncle Drew
05-12-2007, 08:41 AM
ESPN is of course the same group that ranked Dean Smith the greatest coach in ANY sport over the last 25 years. That's like calling Hillary Clinton the most conservative politician in the last 25 years. And of course I had to listen to Stewart Scott explain how they came to that conclusion as if the list was completely unbiased. This was of course before Roy won his title with someone else's recruits, so I'm sure if the poll were taken today he'd be #2. Well as the great Rodney Dangerfield once said, "look out for #1, but don't step in #2.