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Lord Ash
01-19-2010, 03:26 PM
This has been driving me a bit crazy recently... after Mason Plumlee threw down that reverse dunk, he was seen backpeddling back up court, smiling and nodding and clearly saying something.

It seemed, to me, that he was communicating with Kyle Singler judging by where Kyle is and how they seem to make and maintain eye contact and that it was Kyle's miss that Mason put back, and some others who were at the game saw it the same way.

However, it seems that many people are saying that Mason was woofing at the Wake players (the ref clearly thought so) and now this idea is being spread.

This bothers me a bit... I don't mind chippy, but I would rather a freshman not be branded as a trash talker when he wasn't talking.

Am I the only one who saw it this way on TV?

CDu
01-19-2010, 03:31 PM
This has been driving me a bit crazy recently... after Mason Plumlee threw down that reverse dunk, he was seen backpeddling back up court, smiling and nodding and clearly saying something.

It seemed, to me, that he was communicating with Kyle Singler judging by where Kyle is and how they seem to make and maintain eye contact and that it was Kyle's miss that Mason put back, and some others who were at the game saw it the same way.

However, it seems that many people are saying that Mason was woofing at the Wake players (the ref clearly thought so) and now this idea is being spread.

This bothers me a bit... I don't mind chippy, but I would rather a freshman not be branded as a trash talker when he wasn't talking.

Am I the only one who saw it this way on TV?

I'd have to see a replay, but I definitely saw it as Mason jawing with some Wake players. However, I didn't think it was necessarily a one-sided situation.

DukieInKansas
01-19-2010, 03:31 PM
This has been driving me a bit crazy recently... after Mason Plumlee threw down that reverse dunk, he was seen backpeddling back up court, smiling and nodding and clearly saying something.

It seemed, to me, that he was communicating with Kyle Singler judging by where Kyle is and how they seem to make and maintain eye contact and that it was Kyle's miss that Mason put back, and some others who were at the game saw it the same way.

However, it seems that many people are saying that Mason was woofing at the Wake players (the ref clearly thought so) and now this idea is being spread.

This bothers me a bit... I don't mind chippy, but I would rather a freshman not be branded as a trash talker when he wasn't talking.

Am I the only one who saw it this way on TV?

I saw it that way, also.

jv001
01-19-2010, 03:35 PM
I looked at the replay and it seemed to me that he was talking to Kyle. Now I did not see what happened just after the slam. So he could have said something then. Go Duke!

ChicagoCrazy84
01-19-2010, 03:37 PM
Are there any links to articles/blogs that brand Mason as a trash talker?

I haven't heard anything.

oldnavy
01-19-2010, 03:42 PM
My take on it was that Mason was smack talking, to KYLE. It appeared to me that he was joking with him about putting his "trash" away or something like that.

If he were talking to a WF player, then I don't know how I would feel about that at this point. I would like that he had the edge, like JJ did, but I would prefer that he not make to big of a show of it. Like I have said before, I think Kyle is the perfect role model for MP2 to emulate.

All I can say is that I am crazy happy about the play of both Mason and Miles at this point, with great anticipation that it is going to get even better.

DukeUsul
01-19-2010, 03:43 PM
I loved the confidence, whoever he was talking to. As long as it doesn't draw a whistle, I'm all for it.

jimrowe0
01-19-2010, 03:50 PM
I loved the confidence, whoever he was talking to. As long as it doesn't draw a whistle, I'm all for it.

Agreed

quickgtp
01-19-2010, 03:51 PM
He was saying "Yeah Baby" in that particular sequence. I don't think that would be classified as trash talking. I know Smith said something to him about slapping the backboard and Mason just started smiling/laughing until the ref said something. Then Mason quieted down.

JonnyWonder
01-19-2010, 03:52 PM
Mason definitely comes across as one of the more emotional players on the floor - whether its emotional immaturity or just high-spiritedness is up for interpretation.

I'll preface this with saying I am really enjoying watching Mason progress, and feel we are incredibly fortunate to have him (and his brother, of course) at Duke.

Two things stood out to me on the reverse jam. First of all, he definitely slapped (or tried to slap) the backboard after the jam and probably should've been T'ed up for it. I personally don't have a problem with it - and actually think it's pretty amazing and awesome - but that's how they usually call a backboard slap after a dunk.

The second thing was Mason's jawing while backpedaling. I watched the dunk several times (due to its awesomeness), and I recall being unsure if he was talking trash to a Wake player or talking to Kyle, but he definitely went from head nod and smug smile to an "I didn't do anything!" look when he realized he was at risk of being T'ed up for taunting. Unfortunately, the ESPN highlight reel shown across the country on Sportscenter included the whole sequence of Mason's looks after the dunk, with little context as to whether he was looking at Kyle or not. I can definitely see how those less inclined to give Duke the benefit of the doubt might interpret this as "gee, there's a cocky Duke freshman with an attitude problem".

I also seem to recall a moment in one of the last couple games (was it BC?) when Mason was slapping at the ball held by an opponent after the whistle. It was brief and didn't amount to anything, but it had been a while since I'd seen a Duke player kind of lose their composure like that. Someone with a better memory than me might recall the specifics.

On balance, I love Mason's emotion on the court, I just hope he can learn to channel it into giving his teammates a boost instead of using it to show up opponents. As he progresses, and given a little seasoning, I can see him being the emotional spark of the team - he definitely has the passion for it!

oldnavy
01-19-2010, 03:54 PM
He was saying "Yeah Baby" in that particular sequence. I don't think that would be classified as trash talking. I know Smith said something to him about slapping the backboard and Mason just started smiling/laughing until the ref said something. Then Mason quieted down.

Not a big point, but I think that he slapped at the back board and missed it. I only point this nuance out because I believe had he actually hit the backboard, he probably would have been assessed a technical foul. I honestly thought that he was smiling and yaking at Kyle, but he may have been responding to something Smith said...

Jim3k
01-19-2010, 03:59 PM
Mason definitely comes across as one of the more emotional players on the floor - whether its emotional immaturity or just high-spiritedness is up for interpretation.

I'll preface this with saying I am really enjoying watching Mason progress, and feel we are incredibly fortunate to have him (and his brother, of course) at Duke.

Two things stood out to me on the reverse jam. First of all, he definitely slapped (or tried to slap) the backboard after the jam and probably should've been T'ed up for it. I personally don't have a problem with it - and actually think it's pretty amazing and awesome - but that's how they usually call a backboard slap after a dunk.

The second thing was Mason's jawing while backpedaling. I watched the dunk several times (due to its awesomeness), and I recall being unsure if he was talking trash to a Wake player or talking to Kyle, but he definitely went from head nod and smug smile to an "I didn't do anything!" look when he realized he was at risk of being T'ed up for taunting. Unfortunately, the ESPN highlight reel shown across the country on Sportscenter included the whole sequence of Mason's looks after the dunk, with little context as to whether he was looking at Kyle or not. I can definitely see how those less inclined to give Duke the benefit of the doubt might interpret this as "gee, there's a cocky Duke freshman with an attitude problem".

I also seem to recall a moment in one of the last couple games (was it BC?) when Mason was slapping at the ball held by an opponent after the whistle. It was brief and didn't amount to anything, but it had been a while since I'd seen a Duke player kind of lose their composure like that. Someone with a better memory than me might recall the specifics.

On balance, I love Mason's emotion on the court, I just hope he can learn to channel it into giving his teammates a boost instead of using it to show up opponents. As he progresses, and given a little seasoning, I can see him being the emotional spark of the team - he definitely has the passion for it!

If you will look more closely to his hand contact with the backboard, and look at him on the rim, you will see that there is at least a reasonable likelihood that he is using the backboard to ensure that he is straight when he releases, so he doesn't land awkwardly. The whole thing was a flash. This doesn't come close to Maggette's exuberant slap of the backboard. Mason, OTOH, doesn't show exuberance until he's backpedaling with Kyle. Mason is most likely being utilitarian here.

elvis14
01-19-2010, 04:05 PM
I loved Mason's show of emotion after that play. If he was jawing with Kyle, I'm good with that. If he was jawing with Ish, I'm good with that too. We need a little more of that. Note I said a little. I don't want our guys to lower themselves to the level that we see from other teams (constant woofing, show boating, etc.) but an occasional well earned woof...have at it!

Jaymf7
01-19-2010, 04:08 PM
It has been a couple of days, but to me it looked like Mason was celebrating with Kyle when a Wake player came by and said something to him (and possibly brushed aside him). It looked like Mason's eyes shifted his focus and gave the smug look to the Wake player (perhaps Smith), who was off-screen. He certainly looked provoked and he did nothing to warrant a T. The involvement of a Wake player explains why he so quickly toned down and lifted his arms in that "nothing to see here" gesture.

Did anyone there see more of this?

JonnyWonder
01-19-2010, 04:09 PM
If you will look more closely to his hand contact with the backboard, and look at him on the rim, you will see that there is at least a reasonable likelihood that he is using the backboard to ensure that he is straight when he releases, so he doesn't land awkwardly. The whole thing was a flash. This doesn't come close to Maggette's exuberant slap of the backboard. Mason, OTOH, doesn't show exuberance until he's backpedaling with Kyle. Mason is most likely being utilitarian here.

Just watched in on Youtube. My blood's as Duke blue as the next guy, but I find it really hard to believe that the slapping motion with his right hand after the dunk is meant to ensure he's straight when he releases. My eyes see him flicking his hand out really quickly, like he's trying to touch the backboard before he lands - nothing indicates he's off-balance or that the motion would do anything to help him land straight.

Still, I really don't have a problem with it either way, and I've never done a reverse dunk so what do I know. It just seems like a lot to buy....

OZZIE4DUKE
01-19-2010, 04:10 PM
While I love Miles' and Mason's alarmingly athletic confidence and success, I'm pretty sure that the coaches (and senior players) will talk with both of them to get them to channel their enthusiasm into activities that will not get them T'd up in coming games. At least I hope they do :cool:

And yeah, they have both slapped (at) the backboard more than once, not always after a successful slam dunk. Sometimes it was to maintain balance - heck, how many players can get as high off the ground as they do? Better they do that than take a hard fall, like Mason did on Sunday night.

NYDukie
01-19-2010, 04:10 PM
This has been driving me a bit crazy recently... after Mason Plumlee threw down that reverse dunk, he was seen backpeddling back up court, smiling and nodding and clearly saying something.

It seemed, to me, that he was communicating with Kyle Singler judging by where Kyle is and how they seem to make and maintain eye contact and that it was Kyle's miss that Mason put back, and some others who were at the game saw it the same way.

However, it seems that many people are saying that Mason was woofing at the Wake players (the ref clearly thought so) and now this idea is being spread.

This bothers me a bit... I don't mind chippy, but I would rather a freshman not be branded as a trash talker when he wasn't talking.

Am I the only one who saw it this way on TV?

Doesn't bother me in the least considering all the trash talking and gestures the team gets from opponents and their fans. I'm not big on excessive trash talking but a lil chip on the shoulder, I'm better than you or you can't deal with my $%$ here and there is actually not a bad thing. As long as it doesn't go overboard and cross the line. This team needs an edge to go with its ability and talent and I can see it coming in Mason, Miles and Kyle. When the past teams were at their best there was always one lightning rod on the team who had no problem chirping a bit (see Laettner, JWill (I tend to remember him not backing down and saying some things or using the body language) and JJ.

Taco
01-19-2010, 04:14 PM
Looked to me like 1) he clearly tried (and maybe succeeded) at slapping the backboard 2) both he AND Singler were jawing at Ish Smith. It's hard to tell with the cuts and camera angles we were shown, but it seems to me what probably happened is Smith said something first, and then Singler turned around to say something back and then Mason started laughing/nodding.

Personally I don't have a problem with any of it.

JonnyWonder
01-19-2010, 04:15 PM
Doesn't bother me in the least considering all the trash talking and gestures the team gets from opponents and their fans. I'm not big on excessive trash talking but a lil chip on the shoulder, I'm better than you or you can't deal with my $%$ here and there is actually not a bad thing. As long as it doesn't go overboard and cross the line.

I'd agree with this for sure. Seems to be the direction the game is going, and there's something a bit more intimidating about a team that will beat you by 20 AND twist the knife just slightly. I think our teams are amazingly classy in the aspects that matter (academics, fundamentals, clean recruiting, showing respect when called for and losing with as much grace as winning), so a little chip on the shoulder is totally fine.

I just can't stand it when some 5ppg guard who can't play D and shoots FTs at a 45% clip gets a dunk and starts pounding his chest or getting in someone's face.

NYDukie
01-19-2010, 04:19 PM
I'd agree with this for sure. Seems to be the direction the game is going, and there's something a bit more intimidating about a team that will beat you by 20 AND twist the knife just slightly. I think our teams are amazingly classy in the aspects that matter (academics, fundamentals, clean recruiting, showing respect when called for and losing with as much grace as winning), so a little chip on the shoulder is totally fine.

I just can't stand it when some 5ppg guard who can't play D and shoots FTs at a 45% clip gets a dunk and starts pounding his chest or getting in someone's face.

I definitely am not saying I want them to be like the old UNLV and Michigan teams of past of some of the Cincy teams of recent years but some swagger and the "I'm not taking #$% attitude, play and talk" can help them take the next step. I think they will always be classy whether winning or losing but I think that lil "edge" is needed.

DukieBoy
01-19-2010, 04:43 PM
I have no problem with it. I mean, Duke has to develop some type of "swagger" because they've definitely lost it over the last few years

And plus, we had Laettner for 4 years and he was no quiet one himself.

IBleedBlue
01-19-2010, 04:55 PM
I sure don't have any problem with any of our team members woofin...
In the past few years, we have been branded as a bunch of weak boys unable to play with the men...if that swagger is coming back with a lil woofin..i wud definitely let it run...

RelativeWays
01-19-2010, 05:20 PM
Mason was jawing at the Wake players? Good for him! We need more attitude on this team. Singler can't be our lone jerk without getting tired.

Tim1515
01-19-2010, 05:22 PM
I've actually been really impressed with Mason's control. He had a dunk earlier in the game off a great pass from Nolan (ranked in the top 5 of the link below) where he has no response at all. There have been a few dunks this year where i expect to get some reaction from Mason but he just runs down the court.

http://www.dukeblueplanet.com/ - #5

There is also an interview from Miles on Blue Devil Nation where Miles said that the reverse is his dunk (i remember seeing it from both of them in high school clips) and that Miles was "mad" Mason did it first in a game.

So...maybe he was jawing back to Miles....maybe to Kyle...or maybe a Wake player said something and he responded.

I don't like "woofing" but as i said i've been very impressed with Mason and can give him a complete slide on this one.

moonpie23
01-19-2010, 05:24 PM
i think he was yacking at kyle and was so stoked about what he'd just done, didn't realize that the refs may be taking that as woofing...his smile IMMEDIATELY disappeared when someone pointed that out....

i say he's got a lot of emotion as a freshman, and he will learn some mouth discipline.

the first time he costs the team some opponent points with that action, i would imagine K will have a few words for him...

Biscuit King
01-19-2010, 05:25 PM
The Playcaller said it was an obvious taunt. Can someone who saw it that way explain why? I thought he was celebrating with Kyle and then Ish Smith might have said something to him and he responded with a cocky smirk.

Misunderestimated
01-19-2010, 05:27 PM
I like it, love it, want some more of it! In reality though, Coach K will soon have the youngsters playing "like they've been here before" and I would imagine the backboard slap and woofing was discussed in film session.

Although, having been forwarded so many variations of photos of Deron Washington and Danny Green dunking on a particular Dukie (and photoshopped on the team photo, etc) by unc friends, its nice to see some swagger on our side again....

NSDukeFan
01-19-2010, 05:28 PM
I've actually been really impressed with Mason's control. He had a dunk earlier in the game off a great pass from Nolan (ranked in the top 5 of the link below) where he has no response at all. There have been a few dunks this year where i expect to get some reaction from Mason but he just runs down the court.

http://www.dukeblueplanet.com/ - #5

There is also an interview from Miles on Blue Devil Nation where Miles said that the reverse is his dunk (i remember seeing it from both of them in high school clips) and that Miles was "mad" Mason did it first in a game.

So...maybe he was jawing back to Miles....maybe to Kyle...or maybe a Wake player said something and he responded.

I don't like "woofing" but as i said i've been very impressed with Mason and can give him a complete slide on this one.

I agree, I like how most of the time after a big slam, Mason acts very much like he has been there, done that and it is no big deal.

Cameron
01-19-2010, 05:37 PM
I honestly don't think it was enough (if it was in fact smack talk back at Wake's player). I would have liked to have seen a little index finger pointing, maybe even a Reggie flip-off (anyone see that game between Indiana and LA a few years ago in Conseco where Reggie flipped the crowd off on national TV?)

Obviously I'm kidding on that last part, but I like the swagger I've seen out of Kyle and Mason this season. Even Andre from time to time, especially in that Wisconsin game, showed that sharp smile and hop after those long daggers. Reminds me a lot of 1990s Duke. We had a ton of guys back then that weren't afraid to say, "We're Duke, and we're better." Laettner, Parks, Collins, Brand, Maggettee, Avery, later Duhon and, of course, perhaps the best of them all, J.J. I loved the passion, energy and vocalness these players brought to the court, truly taking pride in Duke being Duke.

We Are Duke. And I like when our players show it. You're not Duke, so get the **** out of our way. Now I don't think we need to bring back the "shocker" or implement forearm shivers and nonsense shoving (ala Boston College), but the best teams in sports often bring with them clout and swagger.

As Coach K once said, to be truly great, you have to have a little arrogance. Our greatest teams have had that, and I want more of those.

Remember the SI cover story from '99? Preppies No More! The Blue Devils are on top again -- but now they're nasty.

Perfect. I hope this is a another rise to the top.

Duke4life92
01-19-2010, 05:48 PM
He was saying "Yeah Baby" in that particular sequence. I don't think that would be classified as trash talking. I know Smith said something to him about slapping the backboard and Mason just started smiling/laughing until the ref said something. Then Mason quieted down.

Exactly the way i saw it.Seemed like Ish took that dunk alittle to personal for some reason and got in mason and kyle's celebration a bit imo,we saw the hard foul retaliation he took out on mason later and to me it was obvious he did'nt want to allow anothr mason bigtime dunk on his watch.Now wether it was an intentional foul or not,he was damned sure going to take mason out on that play to avoid the big dunk.

oldnavy
01-19-2010, 05:49 PM
Nick names for the Plumlees,

"masters of mayhem",
"Mad Man" Miles, and Mason "brickhouse" Plumlee
"Plum nasty"

airowe
01-19-2010, 05:55 PM
Nick names for the Plumlees,

"masters of mayhem",
"Mad Man" Miles, and Mason "brickhouse" Plumlee
"Plum nasty"

I'm surprised there aren't a group of Crazies dressing like this every game:

http://www.boy-toy.net/bbs/UploadFile/2007-11/200711213366106.jpg

pfrduke
01-19-2010, 05:56 PM
The Playcaller said it was an obvious taunt. Can someone who saw it that way explain why? I thought he was celebrating with Kyle and then Ish Smith might have said something to him and he responded with a cocky smirk.

I'm not the Playcaller, but I think the backboard slap is considered a "taunt" and is (supposed to be) a black and white call - you slap the backboard, you get T'd for taunting.

If that's not the case, then I'm at a loss for how someone who only watched the game on TV could describe his conduct as an obvious taunt, given that you couldn't see who Mason was talking to or, really, what he was saying.

moonpie23
01-19-2010, 06:02 PM
i LOVED the look andre gave the big man when he blocked his shot.....it was NOTHING! STONE COLD GET THAT OUTTA HERE NOTHING...


no taunt, no surprise, no gratification.....NOTHING....

the walking away said it all....

moonpie23
01-19-2010, 06:13 PM
ok....just RE-watched the clip on youtube and i have to say, i think he WAS woofing at ish.....


i actually think THIS is taunting....

Mrezt
01-19-2010, 06:29 PM
When i first saw it live i thought he was smiling and talking to a Wake player but i wasn't sure. I watched the video again (first is from dukeblueforever, the second is from dukeblueplanet):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwWK6rvlgCA (6:30 - Great video btw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzcobUQAOTs (1:30)

The first one has a slightly longer clip of Mason after he made the dunk and from watching it my personal perspective is:

Mason made the dunk and went down the court satisfied with the dunk and yells "lets go!"

Right after it looks like the Wake player says something, but from watching the whole video it looks like he might have even gave Mason props for the dunk because it makes Kyle laugh and then once Mason realizes what the Wake player says he smiles

Again, with the video that the Duke Blue Planet has (great video too) it doesn't show that couple of seconds that the Duke Blue Forever video does and once i saw that Mason didn't immediately come down and say something it changed my opinion

stillcrazie
01-19-2010, 06:29 PM
ok....just RE-watched the clip on youtube and i have to say, i think he WAS woofing at ish.....


i actually think THIS is taunting....

I re-watched it and thought the same thing. It appears as if Mason is looking behind Kyle.

DevilHorns
01-19-2010, 06:29 PM
I'm surprised there aren't a group of Crazies dressing like this every game:

http://www.boy-toy.net/bbs/UploadFile/2007-11/200711213366106.jpg

what an awesome idea!

stillcrazie
01-19-2010, 06:35 PM
When i first saw it live i thought he was smiling and talking to a Wake player but i wasn't sure. I watched the video again (first is from dukeblueforever, the second is from dukeblueplanet):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwWK6rvlgCA (6:30 - Great video btw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzcobUQAOTs (1:30)

The first one has a slightly longer clip of Mason after he made the dunk and from watching it my personal perspective is:

Mason made the dunk and went down the court satisfied with the dunk and yells "lets go!"

Right after it looks like the Wake player says something, but from watching the whole video it looks like he might have even gave Mason props for the dunk because it makes Kyle laugh and then once Mason realizes what the Wake player says he smiles

Again, with the video that the Duke Blue Planet has (great video too) it doesn't show that couple of seconds that the Duke Blue Forever video does and once i saw that Mason didn't immediately come down and say something it changed my opinion

You're right -- the first video shows that whatever he's laughing about, he's responding to something a Wake player said.

Greg_Newton
01-19-2010, 07:11 PM
Right after it looks like the Wake player says something, but from watching the whole video it looks like he might have even gave Mason props for the dunk because it makes Kyle laugh and then once Mason realizes what the Wake player says he smiles

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that wasn't "props" coming out of the Wake player's mouth. :rolleyes:

Pretty sure it was a little more along these lines (paraphrased):

Mason: "Let's go!"
Ish Smith: "Shut the $%&$@$ up."
Kyle: "Hey, back off."
Mason (laughing/nodding at Ish): "Yeahhhh!"

I don't know how else you would want your player to react besides that...

IBleedBlue
01-19-2010, 07:19 PM
The first video ends with ...
Go to Charleston Carolina...
that made me lol at work...I am gonna use it for a while...

Newton_14
01-19-2010, 09:30 PM
I am very much with The Lord of Ash in that Mason is getting a bad rap if he is being labeled as a kid with a bad attitude.

First, I am very much ill at Fox for the tv angles on that play as well as others. That is one of the problems with this play. We could not see what really happened.

Watching live it looked like Wake immediately in-bounded the ball to Ish and Mason went for the steal. The whistle blew and I actually thought Mason had picked up a silly reach in foul right after a great play. But there was no foul call and the announcers never said why the whistle blew. It took me going threw the game notes to find out that for some reason the refs stopped play and allowed subs in. Which also makes no sense. So I still have no clue why play stopped.

That said, I "assume" Ish took offense to Mason's reaction to the dunk and the ensuing reach in, and Kyle stepped in to defend his freshman. I too agree that all we see Mason saying is "Yeah Baby" and laughing at Ish. But then he quickly loses the smile and throws his hands up to beg forgiveness with the ref.

It is just hard to say for sure without a better view of the entire sequence after the dunk.

And sorry to be long winded, but I wanted to make a couple of points regarding the dunk and other teams "taunting"

The Dunk: Awesome huh? But to me it was awesome not because he pulled off a reverse dunk, but rather because it was absolutely the best way to get two points in the situation he found himself. Had he tried to score in any other manner he would have made it harder on himself and possibly gave the defender a better chance to stop the play or foul him. Sounds crazy but I really feel it was the most efficient way for him to score that bucket and eliminated any chance a defender could either block the attempt or foul.

As for taunting, what Mason did does not even begin to approach the actions of the Clemson kids in the unc-ch game last week.

Both Booker and Tanner Smith were pumping their chests, glaring at unc players, glaring at the unc bench, and pandering to the crowd after numerous made baskets during the intitial run in the first half. After one dunk, Booker lets out a scream (which bought G a tech in the hokie game last year), then he pounds his chest and goes over and glares directly at the unc bench.

Tanner Smith scores a big bucket shortly after that. He goes to the baseline, waves at the student section and grabs his sides of his jersey holding it up towards the crowd. That is blatant taunting, showboating, etc and the refs did nothing..

Yet Mason maybe has a few words and a smile for Wake's players and he is somehow a taunter/bad attitude kid? Not in my book..

allenmurray
01-19-2010, 09:34 PM
Why can't he play with the composure of a 45 year old man instead of an 18 year old kid? Oh yeah, he's an 18 year old kid.

kmspeaks
01-19-2010, 09:49 PM
Why can't he play with the composure of a 45 year old man instead of an 18 year old kid? Oh yeah, he's an 18 year old kid.

Actually Mason was born in 1990 so he is 19 and will turn 20 before the season ends. The kid really needs to grow up already. ;):p

All kidding aside I would have to believe that if Mason's actions were really that bad that he would not have been on the court. He'd be sitting on a chair while he and K had a little chat.

Newton_14
01-19-2010, 09:50 PM
Why can't he play with the composure of a 45 year old man instead of an 18 year old kid? Oh yeah, he's an 18 year old kid.

Exactly! I love what Mason brings, he is an emotional kid who plays with passion. He will learn to channel that emotion as he grows and matures. Going to be one of the great ones!

SeattleIrish
01-19-2010, 10:20 PM
Very happy to have Mason on the team. That said, I lose respect for teams/players who do a lot of woofing; I have much greater respect for teams that focus on THEIR PLAY and not about showing up the other team.

If Mason was talking smack to Ish or one of the other Wake players, I don't think it reflects well on him or on the team.

It was a very sweet dunk:)

s.i.

killerleft
01-19-2010, 10:20 PM
Well, I've actually been waiting for someone tall and Laettnerish for about 18 years now.:cool:

ice-9
01-19-2010, 10:27 PM
Backboard slap aside, Mason had a big grin on this face as he was pedaling backwards. That's excessive taunting???? Seems rather mild to me, and definitely an appropriate response if Smith had been jawing at Mason. A sort of "Yeah yeah say whatever you want, I just reverse dunked on you."

SupaDave
01-19-2010, 10:51 PM
I'm a bit more concerned with Mason's hip. I don't think this minor moment deserves much much attention and believe this conversation should be tabled if there is nothing further to add...

Duvall
01-19-2010, 10:56 PM
I don't think this minor moment deserves much much attention and believe this conversation should be tabled if there is nothing further to add...

What is there to say about Mason's hip?

The front page column spent 200 words talking about this; not sure why it's a surprise that there's a thread about it too.

jipops
01-19-2010, 11:04 PM
The ONLY reason anybody would be making a big deal about this is because Mason plays for Duke. There is no newsworthiness for any player on any other team that might be talking any smack. But for some reason, if a Duke player has an outward display of confidence, people get all up in arms about it. There seems to be some public opinion that Duke players aren't supposed to do that, but for other teams it's perfectly acceptable.

SupaDave
01-19-2010, 11:11 PM
The ONLY reason anybody would be making a big deal about this is because Mason plays for Duke. There is no newsworthiness for any player on any other team that might be talking any smack. But for some reason, if a Duke player has an outward display of confidence, people get all up in arms about it. There seems to be some public opinion that Duke players aren't supposed to do that, but for other teams it's perfectly acceptable.

But WHO is making a big deal of this? Other than people who root for Duke that is...

Cameron
01-19-2010, 11:17 PM
Once again, I love the fact that Mason "woofed."

This is great. We need more arrogance, to be quite honest. This is Duke.

Kane
01-20-2010, 12:01 AM
Basketball is not a game of chess, people . . . woofing, elbowing, sweating, cursing, etc. it's called athletics, sports. Have you forgotten Laettner stomping on the chest of the Kentuky player on the way to a championship? Give me championships, give me woofing, give me chest stomps, give me men on the court. Woof, woof, woof!!!!!

gep
01-20-2010, 01:35 AM
I actually like the confidence displayed by Mason and Miles... as long as they keep it "clean", "under" the top... I'm fine with it. The WF game really showed the contributions that M&M boys will bring to Duke basketball.

When they were in the game together, I got the sense that there was a bit more "family" feeling to the team. I could just imagine the Plum boys in the backyard challenging all-comers from the neighborhood... and dishing out their stuff:)

flyingdutchdevil
01-20-2010, 05:24 AM
Although about the NBA, this article from SI really applies to this thread:

What happened to the talkers? (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_wertheim/01/18/trash.talking.nba/index.html)

Personally, I don't see an issue with trash talking. I happens during all team sports. With basketball, the court is so small and refs are so close to the action that players get penalized more than other sports. In soccer, for instance, there is an incredible amount of trash talking that the refs never hear about.

I like how Mason and Miles react after an aggressive dunk. IMO, trash talking, woofing, reacting after a shot is all part of the game. Remember G's dunk on Maryland after they flattened Nolan? G COMPLETELY overreacted, but I absolutely loved that play (he did the same a few games later and received a technical, I believe). As much as we may (or may not) want it to be, bball isn't golf or tennis. It's not a gentlemen's game. But it certainly is a beautiful game.

Mr Blue Devil
01-20-2010, 07:55 AM
I couldn't make out what he said, but tell you what, after that jam and the way the game was going, a little confidant (which I saw it as) swagger was well deserved IMO.

If there is cause for concern or that he was trash talking or saying or doing something he shouldn't have, be sure that K will let him know.

I think people forget that these are kids, they are 18-22 years old and enjoying playing just as much as they are working their butts off.

Mason is a good kid, down to earth, and was just excited.

DeBlueDevil
01-20-2010, 08:17 AM
Yea I don't think there is much to worry about with Mason showing his emotion. How soon we forget the days of JJ running down the court nodding his head with 3 fingers in the air after torching another school from beyond the arc. With all the harrassment our players get from other crowds, I kind of like for one of our guys to play to the crowd or the other teams players everyone once in a while....

Funny thing came to mind. Anyone remember that Boston College game a few years back @ BC where that one tall kid was SCREAMING in JJ Redick's face right on the court?! Wow....and we worry about Mason

Mr Blue Devil
01-20-2010, 08:23 AM
Yea I don't think there is much to worry about with Mason showing his emotion. How soon we forget the days of JJ running down the court nodding his head with 3 fingers in the air after torching another school from beyond the arc. With all the harrassment our players get from other crowds, I kind of like for one of our guys to play to the crowd or the other teams players everyone once in a while....

Funny thing came to mind. Anyone remember that Boston College game a few years back @ BC where that one tall kid was SCREAMING in JJ Redick's face right on the court?! Wow....and we worry about Mason

BC, Va Tech and Miami are just known for their douchery!

KyDevilinIL
01-20-2010, 08:32 AM
We've reached a point in our social and basketball histories that trash talking is expected and generally pretty widely accepted. It's part of the fun and an integral part of the game for most of the young players now.

That said, when I was in high school about a decade ago, one of my buddies who was on the team always talked about facing this particular squad who absolutely annihilated everyone and never said word one to their opponents. Barely even looked at them. They just dunked all over everyone, stole the ball, went on 32-4 runs – all in near silence during the game, save for their own team huddles.

This was, however, its own form of trash talking and was by the coach's design. It was a psychological game. The coach figured that engaging the other team in any way during a game only provided the other team with motivation and made the other squad somehow feel like they were on an equal level. He didn't want that.

I always thought that was a little harsh for high school, but it worked. My friend talked about how demoralizing it was, because it really made our players feel like they weren't even playing in the same game. He said it was hard to get the energy or motivation to turn things around when the other players barely acknowledged that you were out on the floor with them. It was, in his mind, the cruelest form of disrespect to be both soundly beaten and ignored at the same time.

I don't think we're gonna see much of this approach from here on out, but I always was fascinated by this story and this philosophy about on-court behavior.

CrazieDUMB
01-20-2010, 09:03 AM
Trash talking is one of those things that really varies from person to person. I, for instance, generally never initiate any trash talking. However, there's something really satisfying in mentally undoing someone on the other end of a pong table. Without getting to high on ourselves I think its fair to say that Duke students are generally a little sharper than most other college students, so it makes sense that we'd use a little trash talking to our advantage. I mean, isn't that the ethos of the Cameron Crazies?

Lay off Mason. Let him woof. But any talking he does has to be backed up in practice, or you can bet our own seniors will reign him in on their own.

slower
01-20-2010, 09:09 AM
Hey,

If the other team STARTS the trash-talking, I have ZERO problem with our guys replying in kind. I agree with many other posters that our team needs SOME level of swagger to dispel the recent "Duke is soft" image. I don't want our guys to act like Gary Payton or other punks, but there should be a zero-tolerance policy for GETTING punked.

moonpie23
01-20-2010, 09:44 AM
teasing other players about the sets of postulates for Boolean rings might not be quite as effective as "yeah? ya mama!"

NYDukie
01-20-2010, 10:35 AM
I'm fine with Mason being "Laettner" like in his woofing, either being reactive or in initiating it. Remember the days of Bird and Jordan talking their opponents down all game long. Players are generally cool with it as long as they are not publically embarassed. As long as it is just that and not the type where they need to get into another players face to embarass them, then I'm cool with it.

Tim1515
01-20-2010, 12:23 PM
A friend of mine was at the game and apparently Mason's actions where directed at Smith. From what he said, Ish was talking all game with Kyle and Nolan and Miles...etc. After the dunk he dribbled right into Mason and there was contact before the whistle blew (TO i think)? Anyway...he did jaw back to him.

I'm not a big fan of drawing attention to yourself after a big play...don't worry the attention will be there if the play was indeed worth it. I'm sure the staff will talk to Mason a little about it (maybe somewhat like Elliot's 360 dunk last year in a blowout) and we'll hear nothing about it.

As i said earlier...I've seen numerous dunks this year where Mason simply runs down the court with no expression. This was a huge game and his second real "breakout" game. Confidence is something our bigs have lacked recently. As long as he plays his tail off and sticks up for teammates...i have zero problem with it.

BlueDevilCorvette!
01-20-2010, 12:43 PM
Let Mason do his thing...if he wants to woof then woof, just remember that it goes both ways...if he can dish it out then he also have to be able to accept it on the receiving end. I like the swagger and attitude! Let opposing players know Duke players aren't choir boys and made of tissue paper! Play hard!

Also, what's the big deal about slapping the backboard? That happen's more times than not especially on fast breaks. It's no different than when players dunk now, they have to pull up on the rim and rotate their hips and legs all around like the momentum was so great and it wasn't. I remember a time when holding on to the rim was a technical.

uh_no
01-20-2010, 01:49 PM
I remember a time when holding on to the rim was a technical.

stanley robinson is gonna get some ref to call one on him, but its not so much of a problem now as it was before with the breakaway rims and such

slower
01-20-2010, 02:00 PM
A friend of mine was at the game and apparently Mason's actions where directed at Smith. From what he said, Ish was talking all game with Kyle and Nolan and Miles...etc. After the dunk he dribbled right into Mason and there was contact before the whistle blew (TO i think)? Anyway...he did jaw back to him.

Some previous poster in a previous thread said he thought Ish Smith was a good guy, but he has always seemed like a "stealth punk" to me. Maybe not Rodmanesque on the outside, but he just has one of those faces that looks pissed all the time. Maybe I'm wrong, but...;)

I wish he had dribbled into Kyle like that - perhaps something might have happened that would have inhibited his jawing for the rest of the game.

Welcome2DaSlopes
01-20-2010, 02:04 PM
Gary Payton or other punks

Gary Payton= G.O.A.T trash talker and he backs it up, i don't see how he's a punk at all. Imo he's more baddass than even Nate.

slower
01-20-2010, 02:13 PM
Gary Payton= G.O.A.T trash talker and he backs it up, i don't see how he's a punk at all. Imo he's more baddass than even Nate.

We all see the game differently. I just don't care for trash-talking, especially the instigators (although, if there's going to be trash talked, then I'm all for an eye for an eye). So, in my book, Gary Payton is (by definition) one of the biggest punks of all time. I could give a crap whether he can "back it up", it's low rent. Of course the sportsmanship aspect of the game has (d)evolved over the years. If you like that "street" mentality, good for you. That's one of the reasons I stopped running in games at the Y and Central Campus - too many guys there just looking to talk s*&t and knock out teeth.

Happy Anniversary to Dr. Naismith's invention, indeed. All sport will eventually devolve into Roman spectacle.

dukeblue225
01-20-2010, 03:12 PM
To me it appeared that both Kyle and Mason were talking back to the Wake players. If you watch the top 5 plays from the game on DukeBluePlanet, you can see what I'm talking about. However, I don't think that the trashtalking was all that bad since it was going both ways and Mason stopped once the ref asked him to.