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View Full Version : Lance Thomas hitting those jumpers



moonpie23
01-19-2010, 09:33 AM
is the Sha-nizzle !!

superdave
01-19-2010, 10:02 AM
Shame on all those posters who complained about LT attempting this shot while at the same time complaining that Coach K doesnt develop the bigs.

I cant wait until LT knocks down a big shot from the elbow in the Final Four this year!

obsesseddukefan
01-19-2010, 10:02 AM
I have to agree with you, I like the fact that we can almost count on at least 6 points or more when he is within range. I like the added bonus. :D

El_Diablo
01-19-2010, 10:04 AM
My, how times have changed. It seems like only two months ago that LT was getting criticized here for doing this...

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17880

ChicagoCrazy84
01-19-2010, 10:51 AM
I always supported Lance shooting the mid-range jumpers. He showed he could hit them last year and I had no reason to believe he couldn't do the same this year (even when he struggled). Now, if only he could put the ball on the floor!

DoubleDuke Dad
01-19-2010, 10:54 AM
My, how times have changed. It seems like only two months ago that LT was getting criticized here for doing this...

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17880

I am amazed how Lance’s shooting has improved from last year to this year. Also, he went from a “please don’t foul him” to a “money in the bank” free throw shooter.

Chitowndevil
01-19-2010, 12:34 PM
It's great to see Lance getting credit for the improvement in his game. His ability to hit that jump shot, along with MP1 & 2 really coming into their own offensively, should really open things up for the three S's. It feels like it's been awhile since Duke regularly fielded lineups where all five players were legitimate scoring threats. I'm not sure whether that's there yet this season, but if it's not I think it may be by March.

budwom
01-19-2010, 12:40 PM
Rick Majerus has made the very cogent point that EVERY player on the floor has to have at least one spot from which he knows he can hit a shot. Lance didn't have that last year, hence, as K noted, Villanova got to play us three on five. It's nice to see that Lance has seemingly found his spot.

1999ballboy
01-19-2010, 01:29 PM
He's also our second best free throw shooter this year, which was an area he really struggled with in the past. I never thought I'd say this about Lance, but I'd like to see us look to him on offense more! It's interesting how at Duke, a lot of guys who come in as defensive specialists end up developing their offensive games late in their career.

greybeard
01-19-2010, 01:43 PM
The part of Lance's shooting that I find troublesome is how he brings the ball to shooting position off of catch, turn and shoots--regardless of which foot he pivots on, he pivots with the ball between waist and chest high and then brings it up. VERY PROBLEMATIC. Easy to disrupt a potential shot, if not outright steal the ball, when he does that.

What I'd like to see is for Lance to develop a style in which he brings the ball up to shooting outside the shoulder away from his pivot foot while he is pivoting and meets the ball at the shooting position with the other hand which arrives simultaneously. Let me put that into English, or try. If Lance catches in the middle with his back to the basket and pivots on his right foot, he will be rotating his body in an arc with his left shoulder on the outside of the arc. He chould balance the ball on his left hand, palm facing up at his side and as he turns bring the ball up to meet his right hand over his head in a position ready to shoot as his turn completes. No opportunity for the immediate defender or anyone else to steal it--help will reach low and miss the ball on the way up. The defender will then have to raise his arms to even think about blocking the shot. If he does so too quickly, Lance just ducks his head, puts the ball on the floor with his left hand and has a two footer instead of a 5. Ditto the other way, except make sure the turn is tight, the right foot has to be very close to the left to stop over rotation. Either way, a little eyebrow/eye fake (maybe milimeter tilt of the head) often is enough to get the defender to rise to his toes and then you duck under.

These turns, when mastered, make stopping a good scoring chance off a back to the basket catch almost impossible. I find that the little eyebrow/eye fake is valuable as it allows a moment for rotation to completely stop, and to make sure my feet are under me and are ready for action. If the defender does not go to his toes off the eyebrow and eye fake, chances are he is sufficiently frozen that he will be unable to react when you shoot, which will take only a little more action on your part than the fake itself.

Good luck Lance. Don't mention it. ;)

uncwdevil
01-19-2010, 01:47 PM
When LT is knocking his shots down, he's shooting the ball at or near the apex of his jump.

Sometimes his release can get a little "late" and he's already coming back down to the floor by the time he lets it go. His shot definitely looked better on Sunday.

Cockabeau
01-19-2010, 01:47 PM
Its a bit late to be working on shot mechanics mid way thru the season don't you think?

Dont change a thing Lance.

Go Duke!

greybeard
01-19-2010, 02:09 PM
Its a bit late to be working on shot mechanics mid way thru the season don't you think?

Dont change a thing Lance.

Go Duke!

Singler is changing an entire position, his whole orientation towards his offensive game. So is Scheyer. Golfers constantly tweak their swings, shooters constantly tweak their shots, baseball players constantly shoot up, er, tweak their swings, but Lance should stand pat? "He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Zimmerman

BlueintheFace
01-19-2010, 02:15 PM
LT should not be shooting contested jumpers if he is doing his part, so it's not really an issue.

oldnavy
01-19-2010, 03:20 PM
LT should not be shooting contested jumpers if he is doing his part, so it's not really an issue.

You stole my thunder. Great point, LT should only shoot when dared to shoot by the defender. He can make it as he has proven, but the last thing we need is for him to start to create shots for himself. Just by making the other teams player come out on him and open the lane is a victory for us. So in that sense you would hope that LT never has to shoot in a game, but it is VERY nice to know that he can and is confident in taking the open shot.

jv001
01-19-2010, 03:33 PM
When LT is knocking his shots down, he's shooting the ball at or near the apex of his jump.

Sometimes his release can get a little "late" and he's already coming back down to the floor by the time he lets it go. His shot definitely looked better on Sunday.

I agree and have seen the same thing. And Dre was shooting his jumper at the apex of his jump earlier and now seems not to get the lift he was getting when the shots were going in. Seems to be a push shot at times. Maybe he has been injured and can't get up like he did at the beginning of the season. Go Duke!

greybeard
01-19-2010, 03:45 PM
You stole my thunder. Great point, LT should only shoot when dared to shoot by the defender. He can make it as he has proven, but the last thing we need is for him to start to create shots for himself. Just by making the other teams player come out on him and open the lane is a victory for us. So in that sense you would hope that LT never has to shoot in a game, but it is VERY nice to know that he can and is confident in taking the open shot.

Wow! What a concept of a team game. Thankfully, the reality is that K sees the game differently and that Lance is aggressive to the ball and after catches. He often will get the ball stolen or his initiation of a shot disrupted but he has the portfolio to keep trying to score the ball.

With all the talk about the three Ss and what not, this remains a 5 man game and is best played that way. Championships are won because players other than the stars make big plays on offense when the situation demands. They are lost when they pass them up.

oldnavy
01-19-2010, 04:38 PM
Wow! What a concept of a team game. Thankfully, the reality is that K sees the game differently and that Lance is aggressive to the ball and after catches. He often will get the ball stolen or his initiation of a shot disrupted but he has the portfolio to keep trying to score the ball.

With all the talk about the three Ss and what not, this remains a 5 man game and is best played that way. Championships are won because players other than the stars make big plays on offense when the situation demands. They are lost when they pass them up.

Not everybody on the court needs to be a scorer for the 5 to play as a team. Of course LT will score, and he should take the open 14 footers and get the put backs. But LT would do more harm to the team if he attempted to do more than that. I disagree, I think teams win championships when they play together and play to the strengths of their teammates. LT's strength is not scoring and will not help this team become a championship caliber team by trying to score. Having said that, I am THRILLED that he has shown that he can drop the open mid-range shot, and we are a better team for it, but do not expect to see offensive plays designed to get LT more opportunities, they will have to come in the flow of game to the tune of about 4-6 ppg.

Jackson
01-19-2010, 07:27 PM
I like that LT can hit the open jump shot. I just wish that he would not to try to do too much with the ball as he will sometimes do. He is good as a catch and shoot player. He cannot create his own shot. He can't drive. With that said, he is a tremendous defender and is turning into the glue guy on this year's team.

greybeard
01-19-2010, 09:55 PM
If you catch it in the lane and have a shot or move to make and don't your team cannot win. The game is about challenging the rim; that is where offenses begin.

For the last two years, Duke depended on wings attacking the rim off of dribbles to the foul line and either pulling up, passing to an open 3, or going to the rim.

If you have a big who catches it inside the paint and he is in a position to score the ball he must try. If he is off balance or someone is ready to step into a 3, yes you can kick it. If you pivot and another big is free underneath you also kick it. If you pass it up, your team will lose to teams of near equal strength when it shouldn't. If you haven't seen enough of that for the past few years, I cannot help you. We'll agree to disagree here.

I have never understood how Singler or Scheyer or G could shoot 3 for 12 and everybody say, "they're in a slump" or some such, but that let Lance or Z fumble away one or two at the start of a game and everybody wants to shut em down.

Bill Cartwright said that that is precisely why Chicago beat everyone else--because they wanted the guy to take that shot over and over if it was there in the flow of the offense, even if he missed and missed. See Hoop Dreams. Or, as Phil was so found of quoting to the Bulls:


Now this is the law of the jungle -
As old and as true as the sky;
And the wolf that keep it may prosper,
But the wolf that shall break it may die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree trunk,
The law runneth forward and back -
And the strength of the pack is the wolf
And the strength of the wolf is the pack.
-Rudyard Kipling

Kedsy
01-19-2010, 10:23 PM
Now this is the law of the jungle -
As old and as true as the sky;
And the wolf that keep it may prosper,
But the wolf that shall break it may die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree trunk,
The law runneth forward and back -
And the strength of the pack is the wolf
And the strength of the wolf is the pack.
-Rudyard Kipling

Not a particularly auspicious or well-chosen quote on the night before we play at NC State, is it?

greybeard
01-19-2010, 10:45 PM
Not a particularly auspicious or well-chosen quote on the night before we play at NC State, is it?

Got a point there Kedsy. :o