Football Players Charged--Dismissed From Team

[CameronBornAndBred]

The students – John Drew, Kyle Griswould and Brandon Putnam – were members of the Duke football team, according to spokesman Keith Lawrence. They have been dismissed from the team and will not be permitted to return to campus pending the resolution of the charges.

Way to go, guys....

http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/6828598/

[77devil]

Assuming the account is accurate, this was particularly stupid in light of the recent publicity about Gilbert Arenas. Good riddance.

[cspan37421]

Can't blame the prior regime for recruiting these guys. Character might not win you football games, but the lack of it can hurt the team.

[wolfpackdevil]

This is horrible. Griswould and Putnam will not be big losses to the team. But John Drew is a huge loss! A defense that is losing a lot of seniors, is losing another starting defensive lineman. Drew had the potential from his play this year to potentialy be a all-conference lineman.

I hope these guys get their heads on straight.

[JaMarcus Russell]

While this is definitely bad news, I am glad that our coaches immediately dismissed both the star and the two lesser players, instead of throwing the two lesser guys under the bus and conspiring with the local police to make the star appear to be an innocent bystander.

This is a program with some integrity, at least.

I am sure big time followers of college football know exactly what other team I am referring to.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Can't blame the prior regime for recruiting these guys. Character might not win you football games, but the lack of it can hurt the team.

All three are freshman, recruited by the current staff. John Drew filled in for Vince Oghobaase while Vince was injured. His future was very bright. Kyle Griswould was injured early in the season, but did show some promise at RB.

[Kewlswim]

I am speechless. Why do kids (and some adults) find ways to wreck their lives? It truly boggles the mind how people find ways to make good situations into bad ones.

GO DUKE!

[DukeSean]

That is just about the most idiotic thing I've heard come from a Duke campus. I don't even care about the impact to our football team, I'm glad they're gone, assuming of course the report is accurate.

Hopefully this will be a big wake up call for them and they'll get their heads on straight, for their own good. They just threw away a free education at one of the best universities in the world.

[stickdog]

Yeah, just imagine what would have happened had some kid in Hillsborough shot off a gun!

[formerdukeathlete]

That is just about the most idiotic thing I've heard come from a Duke campus. I don't even care about the impact to our football team, I'm glad they're gone, assuming of course the report is accurate.

Hopefully this will be a big wake up call for them and they'll get their heads on straight, for their own good. They just threw away a free education at one of the best universities in the world.

To be candid, while it is spot on that the coaches dismissed these players, this is also a black eye for Cut. He picked these players as suitable for his "system". Kids also need to be happy attending and suitable for Duke University.

[MulletMan]

To be candid, while it is spot on that the coaches dismissed these players, this is also a black eye for Cut. He picked these players as suitable for his "system". Kids also need to be happy attending and suitable for Duke University.

Are you serious? You're really going to turn this into some referendum on David Cutcliffe? Read the article. Three kids got a gun and thought it would be fun to shoot it off. They're 19 year old kids, and they did something stupid as hell. Now they're off the team. WTF would you want a coach to do?

I'm sure that the staff thought, and probably still thinks, that those players are suitable for Duke University. Unfortunately they made a really egregious error in judgment and are paying for it BIG TIME.

I do love the fact that you use this as a chance to pile on Cutcliffe and imply that he is actively recruiting guys who will engage in less than stellar behavior for his "system". I realize that Toby Gerhart would never do something like this, and that a Jim Harbaugh recruit would never make a mistake, but seriously... what is your point?

Why have I bothered to respond to your tripe? That's perhaps the most important question. Excuse while I go ask myself just that.

[moonpie23]

no matter which side of the gun control issue you're on, it's impossible to negate the effect that guns and sports are having in college as well as the pros.

i do not understand, especially with arenas perhaps losing his entire NBA career, why ANY sane athlete would not RUN from the mere presence of a firearm.

i'm sure cut is shredded about the incident, but to try to lay any of that blame on him.....sheesh....:eek:

[camion]

no matter which side of the gun control issue you're on, it's impossible to negate the effect that guns and sports are having in college as well as the pros.

i do not understand, especially with arenas perhaps losing his entire NBA career, why ANY sane athlete would not RUN from the mere presence of a firearm.

i'm sure cut is shredded about the incident, but to try to lay any of that blame on him.....sheesh....:eek:

Though I don't own a gun I think that they certainly have legitimate uses.

But, GUNS ARE NOT TOYS!!! You absolutely must treat them properly and respect their power.

[allenmurray]

Though I don't own a gun I think that they certainly have legitimate uses.

No question about that. I'm not quite sure what legitimate use a 19 year old football player has for one on a college campus though.


But, GUNS ARE NOT TOYS!!! You absolutely must treat them properly and respect their power.

Again, even if treated propelry and with respect, who . . . ?

I hope they got $600,000 worth of enjoyment out of their stupid act. Thier mommas must be so proud.

[peloton]

This is very disheartening (and sad) on so many fronts. As a parent of 2 teenage sons I can't help but feel for their parents. Although these young men demonstrated serious immaturity and a total lack of good judgement, I sincerely hope that this will be a learning experience for them (albeit a painful one.) I was looking forward to seeing John Drew progress as a football player because he was playing well.

FDA, just something to think about...what if this was the first incident of pretty much any kind involving these 3 players (including high school)? Do you still think this is a "black eye" for Cutcliffe? Don't get me wrong...I realize some may think it is but if their past was "trouble free", I don't agree that Coach Cut can be held responsible in any form or fashion for what they did...just my opinion of course. Now, if this sort of thing starts happening often you might have a point.

[Pacer]

Let's keep in mind the quick condemnation of the LAX suit.

Dismissing them from the team until it is figured out seems prudent.. but let's withhold judgment on the ultimate guilt here...

If the reports are true, then one of them owned the gun, and one of them discharged it... maybe the same person... but that's still just two at most. The other one person (maybe two) of the three is likely (at most) guilty of poor judgment of hanging around while others displayed criminally poor judgment.

At least that seems entirely possible. And who knows when any of them were made aware that there was a gun in the car... possibly it wasn't known until it was pulled out and fired... I'm not ready to dismiss a kid who is riding in a car when a buddy pulls out a previously unknown weapon.

So, likely someone is justifiably dismissed from this...but it doesn't appear to me that we have enough facts to condemn all 3 or to know which of the three.

(also, I note that most everyone posting here has included that their criticisms are dependent upon the facts shaking out to show their guilt... so this isn't directed at you... but as we've seen, the pre-shakeout criticism often can't be remedied by a later exoneration.)

[DevilGrad]

Well, if nothing else, this should give Duke the early lead in the Fulmer Cup (http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/category/fulmer-cup/).

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

These young men will be suspended? Is there a chance that they will be re-instated as Duke students? It appears they didn't hit anything of value. They didn't hurt anyone. Am I missing some facts? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

What happened to playing some video games and calling it a day? sigh.

GO DUKR!

[94duke]

Hi,

These young men will be suspended? Is there a chance that they will be re-instated as Duke students? It appears they didn't hit anything of value. They didn't hurt anyone. Am I missing some facts? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

What happened to playing some video games and calling it a day? sigh.

GO DUKR!

You can't have guns on campus. It doesn't matter whether they hit anything or not.
http://judicial.studentaffairs.duke.edu/policies/policy_list/weapons_firearms.html

[El_Diablo]

Are you serious? You're really going to turn this into some referendum on David Cutcliffe? Read the article. Three kids got a gun and thought it would be fun to shoot it off. They're 19 year old kids, and they did something stupid as hell. Now they're off the team. WTF would you want a coach to do?

I'm sure that the staff thought, and probably still thinks, that those players are suitable for Duke University. Unfortunately they made a really egregious error in judgment and are paying for it BIG TIME.

I do love the fact that you use this as a chance to pile on Cutcliffe and imply that he is actively recruiting guys who will engage in less than stellar behavior for his "system". I realize that Toby Gerhart would never do something like this, and that a Jim Harbaugh recruit would never make a mistake, but seriously... what is your point?

Why have I bothered to respond to your tripe? That's perhaps the most important question. Excuse while I go ask myself just that.

Whoa Mulletman,

I don't think formerdukeathlete is saying that this should be a referendum on Cutcliffe, or that the coach did anything wrong here. He's just pointing out that it's unfortunate that it could (even remotely) undermine the trust Cut established with the administration. After all, he was given the benefit of the doubt and received more latitude in the recruiting process than previous football coaches. Now there is a pretty alarming situation that could throw some doubt on the decision to relax the standards a little bit.

Nothing may come of it, but it's unfortunate that it happens now, with players from Cut's first recruiting class...after he likely went to bat for them. Hence the term "black eye" (rather than something stronger)--it's certainly a negative situation for the program to be in. I don't see how we can debate that. Of course, I have full faith that Cut has and will continue to respond appropriately, and that the black eye will heal.

[Kewlswim]

You can't have guns on campus. It doesn't matter whether they hit anything or not.
http://judicial.studentaffairs.duke.edu/policies/policy_list/weapons_firearms.html

Hi,

I missed where it says what the penalty is, just that it is against the rules. It is probably against the rules to have "recreational" drugs and plenty of students use those too. Having and firing a gun on campus should carry some penalty, but if nobody was hurt it seems that a years suspension and being kicking off of the football team (most likely losing the scholarship for good) is quite a penalty.

GO DUKE!

[FireOgilvie]

Hi,

I missed where it says what the penalty is, just that it is against the rules. It is probably against the rules to have "recreational" drugs and plenty of students use those too. Having and firing a gun on campus should carry some penalty, but if nobody was hurt it seems that a years suspension and being kicking off of the football team (most likely losing the scholarship for good) is quite a penalty.

GO DUKE!

If a student is caught with cocaine, I'm guessing he would be kicked out of school for a year. Isn't it the case that when a student gets a DUI, he is kicked out for at least a semester (and maybe longer)? I would hope the penalty for having a gun on campus would be at least a year. We're not talking about an unloaded hunting rifle that someone accidentally left in their car, we're talking about a loaded handgun that was actually fired.

[PumpkinFunk]

If a student is caught with cocaine, I'm guessing he would be kicked out of school for a year. Isn't it the case that when a student gets a DUI, he is kicked out for at least a semester (and maybe longer)? I would hope the penalty for having a gun on campus would be at least a year. We're not talking about an unloaded hunting rifle that someone accidentally left in their car, we're talking about a loaded handgun that was actually fired.

The student judicial process is far more complicated than you think. The penalty depends on a variety of issues. Often, choosing to admit responsibility leads to a lower penalty from the UCB (Undergraduate Conduct Board) than if you go to a full UCB trial. There's no required sanctions for misconduct, simply a recommended sanction. DUI doesn't necessarily lead to suspension (it does some of the time, though). A gun on campus is more likely to lead to a suspension, as is possession of an illegal drug (anything beyond alcohol or marijuana - they're stricter on pot than alcohol, but even more strict on anything beyond pot). Students have more of a say than do administrators in the process, and the point of the process isn't to punish but instead to make sure the student learns from his/her mistake and does something to better the campus to prevent others to do so.

Cutcliffe's team rules are different from the UCB process.

[allenmurray]

Cutcliffe's team rules are different from the UCB process.

And both may well be overshadowed by North Carolina laws regarding felonious possession and discharge of a weapon.

[towerview road]

It is a FELONY to possess a firearm on any college campus - private or public - in the state of North Carolina.

It's part of a "Safe Schools Act" - and covers ALL schools (preschool to graduate school, private/public/religious/you name it).

See:


Excerpted from North Carolina Firearm Laws

As published by the North Carolina Department of Justice

http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf



North Carolina General Statute § 14-269.2 provides that it is a Class I Felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind, on [any] educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a school.



These prohibitions will apply in/on any school building or bus, school campus, grounds, recreational area, athletic field, or other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education or school board of trustees, or directors for the administration of any school.



It is a misdemeanor, rather than a Class I Felony, for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind, on educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a school if:

a. The person is not a student attending school on the educational property, or an employee employed by the school working on the educational property; and

b. The person is not a student attending a curricular or extra-curricular activity sponsored by the school at which the student is enrolled, or an employee attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by the school at which the employee is working; and

c. The firearm is not loaded, is in a motor vehicle, and is in a locked container or a locked firearm rack. The aforementioned prohibitions will not apply to:

a. A weapon used solely for educational or school sanctioned ceremonial purposes, or used in a school approved program conducted under the supervision of an adult, whose supervision has been approved by the school authority;

b. Fire fighters, emergency service personnel, North Carolina Forest Service personnel, and any private police employed by an educational institution, when acting in the discharge of their official duties;

c. Those persons exempted by N.C.G.S. § 14-269(b), as set forth in Paragraph III. A. of this publication;

d. Home schools;

e. A person registered under Chapter 74C of the North Carolina General Statutes as an armed armored car service guard; or an armed, courier service guard, when acting in the discharge of the guard’s duties and with the permission of the college or university; or

f. A person registered under Chapter 74C of the North Carolina General Statutes as an armed security guard while on the premises of a hospital or health care facility, located on educational property, when acting in the discharge of the guard’s duties with the permission of the college or university.



No person is guilty of a criminal violation of this section so long as both of the following apply:

a. The person comes into possession of a weapon by taking or receiving the weapon from another person, or by finding the weapon.; and

b. The person delivers the weapon, directly or indirectly, as soon as practical to law enforcement authorities.



A concealed handgun permit does not allow a permittee to carry a weapon on any school grounds. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.11(c)

Before anyone says this is against the 2nd amendment, the courts have routinely ruled that the state has an overreaching "compelling interest" in school safety.

Lastly, in the era of Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois shootings (and the like), I would think ANYONE who suggests anything less of mandatory suspension or expulsion is irresponsible. I don't care if it's a football player or a sorority girl, a duck hunting rifle or a semi-automatic handgun, fired or not.

(And yes, I have been to a shooting range before and am in no way "anti-gun").

[allenmurray]

Before anyone says this is against the 2nd amendment, the courts have routinely ruled that the state has an overreaching "compelling interest" in school safety.

Perhaps the football players were part of a well regulated militia. :rolleyes:

[Verga3]

Sorry to say, but good riddence to these young men, if the charges are found to be true. Let's wait to see all the facts...

Cut handled this unfortunate situation swiftly and correctly. It's sad that he was forced to act, but he did so with the integrity Duke University, the football program, and certainly these players that he cares about, in mind. These young men absolutely deserve our prayers and support. Forgetting football, they just may have thrown away one of the best opportunites they will have in their life. I hope they can return to school somehow, even if football is done for them. Actions have consequences....they will get a second chance somewhere down the line.

[PumpkinFunk]

And both may well be overshadowed by North Carolina laws regarding felonious possession and discharge of a weapon.


Lastly, in the era of Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois shootings (and the like), I would think ANYONE who suggests anything less of mandatory suspension or expulsion is irresponsible. I don't care if it's a football player or a sorority girl, a duck hunting rifle or a semi-automatic handgun, fired or not.

Despite that, the school will generally give you some amount of time before they take action until the legal process playing out, within reason. There are no crimes which are mandatory suspensions or expulsions as I'm aware of, just ones which are 99.99% certain to end up that way based on how the UCB works. Gun possession and plagiarism are 2 of those which fall under that category, I'd guess.

[94duke]

It is a FELONY to possess a firearm on any college campus - private or public - in the state of North Carolina.

It's part of a "Safe Schools Act" - and covers ALL schools (preschool to graduate school, private/public/religious/you name it).

See:


Before anyone says this is against the 2nd amendment, the courts have routinely ruled that the state has an overreaching "compelling interest" in school safety.

Lastly, in the era of Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois shootings (and the like), I would think ANYONE who suggests anything less of mandatory suspension or expulsion is irresponsible. I don't care if it's a football player or a sorority girl, a duck hunting rifle or a semi-automatic handgun, fired or not.

(And yes, I have been to a shooting range before and am in no way "anti-gun").

I had forgotten about this. Great cite.
And well said.

[MulletMan]

It is a FELONY to possess a firearm on any college campus - private or public - in the state of North Carolina.

It's part of a "Safe Schools Act" - and covers ALL schools (preschool to graduate school, private/public/religious/you name it).

See:


Before anyone says this is against the 2nd amendment, the courts have routinely ruled that the state has an overreaching "compelling interest" in school safety.

Lastly, in the era of Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois shootings (and the like), I would think ANYONE who suggests anything less of mandatory suspension or expulsion is irresponsible. I don't care if it's a football player or a sorority girl, a duck hunting rifle or a semi-automatic handgun, fired or not.

(And yes, I have been to a shooting range before and am in no way "anti-gun").

How dare you come in here with facts, citations, and a well reasoned argument?

[dukechem]

I'm waiting for the inevitable argument that allowing concealed carry by properly vetted law-abiding citizens will make our campuses safer. After all, Cho at VT could have been stopped before he shot 30+ people if only everyone had been armed.

Unfortunately, in Virginia a person who is not affiliated with the university can carry openly on campus. We had a meeting of a group supporting concealed carry on campus, and some outsiders came with guns on their hips.

[formerdukeathlete]

Whoa Mulletman,

I don't think formerdukeathlete is saying that this should be a referendum on Cutcliffe, or that the coach did anything wrong here. He's just pointing out that it's unfortunate that it could (even remotely) undermine the trust Cut established with the administration. After all, he was given the benefit of the doubt and received more latitude in the recruiting process than previous football coaches. Now there is a pretty alarming situation that could throw some doubt on the decision to relax the standards a little bit.

Nothing may come of it, but it's unfortunate that it happens now, with players from Cut's first recruiting class...after he likely went to bat for them. Hence the term "black eye" (rather than something stronger)--it's certainly a negative situation for the program to be in. I don't see how we can debate that. Of course, I have full faith that Cut has and will continue to respond appropriately, and that the black eye will heal.

Its a shame that actions or mishaps may derail positive momentum.

I see Cut making some adjustments in the face of the recruiting disappointments and possibly other factors. We have been struggling getting more interest among o lineman. However, we just got a verbal from an o lineman in Louisanna with other major offers who was identified as a good student and then invited for a visit. As Chris Kennedy has mentioned, better students also are happier at Duke, which can help the Football Program. The important thing is to make the adjustments and recruit higher ranked players who will do well at Duke - and hopefully avoid felony possession charges.

[Chitowndevil]

I'm waiting for the inevitable argument that allowing concealed carry by properly vetted law-abiding citizens will make our campuses safer. After all, Cho at VT could have been stopped before he shot 30+ people if only everyone had been armed.

Unfortunately, in Virginia a person who is not affiliated with the university can carry openly on campus. We had a meeting of a group supporting concealed carry on campus, and some outsiders came with guns on their hips.

Can we please not go there? Pretty please?

EDIT: I understand the original comment was almost certainly sarcastic. Unfortunately on the internet one person's witty sarcasm is another person's first shot fired in a flame war.

[JaMarcus Russell]

Its a shame that actions or mishaps may derail positive momentum.

I see Cut making some adjustments in the face of the recruiting disappointments and possibly other factors. We have been struggling getting more interest among o lineman. However, we just got a verbal from an o lineman in Louisanna with other major offers who was identified as a good student and then invited for a visit. As Chris Kennedy has mentioned, better students also are happier at Duke, which can help the Football Program. The important thing is to make the adjustments and recruit higher ranked players who will do well at Duke - and hopefully avoid felony possession charges.

I agree, and the new commitment is a pretty good player. His name is Alex Hill, and while LSU never offered him a scholarship, he got some interest in the summer. He can play either center or guard and is considered one of the top 30 players in a talented state, at least by Rivals. For some reason, Scout has not evaluated him yet.