Thank Goodness Duke didn't get Drew...

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I watched the UNC game and Drew might turn into a good pt guard. The point I am making has more to do with what people on this site would be saying about Coach K's recruiting ability if Drew were a Blue Devil. I can only imagine the statements people would make on here. Is it just possible Ole Roy made a mistake (or two) in some of his recruiting? On here sometimes it seems like people think he never makes a recruiting mistake. It seems like Drew and a few of the other players are not panning out so well or at least to date they haven't.

I like that folks such as Wheat slash slash slash post on here to get another viewpoint. However, it appears that a Duke fan posting on a site such as IC is ridiculed and no substantive dialogue. On the turtles web site they seem to enjoy throwing around homosexual references (they do on IC too, just does not seem quite as much) when referring to Duke and its fans. Not saying those folks are or aren't, but I learned a long time ago that the person who obsesses over it is usually the person who has greatest latent (or not so latent) homosexual impulses, just sayin' (and as our friend Seinfeld tells us, "Not that there is anything wrong with it.")

GO DUKE!

[J.Blink]

Not saying those folks are or aren't, but I learned a long time ago that the person who obsesses over it is usually the person who has greatest latent (or not so latent) homosexual impulses, just sayin' (and as our friend Seinfeld tells us, "Not that there is anything wrong with it.")


Are you calling UNC and MD fans (at least the online posters) gay? Because that's rather the way your odd tangent at the end comes across...

In any case, re: the substance of your message I agree. Not all recruits pan out, some unexpectedly turn out better, some worse (duh). Duke perhaps had a bad run of misses and not quite pan outs, while UNC has had some great hits and and great developments. Doesn't mean it will always be that way.

Personally what interests me when I look at DBR and Inside Carolina is how much AGREEMENT there are on a certain few points. For instance, I've seen many Duke fans comment about how good a recruiter Roy is (I for one think he's a great recruiter). IC certainly agrees! I've heard many Duke fans say that despite Roy being a (better?) good recruiter, K is a much better in game coach. You may not see that exact statement on IC, but there are ALWAYS threads complaining about Roy's coaching skills, not calling timeouts, his tactics, etc (one current thread is "once again, we got out coached!"). The narrative that Roy is a great recruiter and maybe not so good a game coach while K is a great game coach but maybe not such a good recruiter is one that is certainly shared by many members of both fan communities.

[Kewlswim]

Are you calling UNC and MD fans (at least the online posters) gay? Because that's rather the way your odd tangent at the end comes across...

In any case, re: the substance of your message I agree. Not all recruits pan out, some unexpectedly turn out better, some worse (duh). Duke perhaps had a bad run of misses and not quite pan outs, while UNC has had some great hits and and great developments. Doesn't mean it will always be that way.

Personally what interests me when I look at DBR and Inside Carolina is how much AGREEMENT there are on a certain few points. For instance, I've seen many Duke fans comment about how good a recruiter Roy is (I for one think he's a great recruiter). IC certainly agrees! I've heard many Duke fans say that despite Roy being a (better?) good recruiter, K is a much better in game coach. You may not see that exact statement on IC, but there are ALWAYS threads complaining about Roy's coaching skills, not calling timeouts, his tactics, etc (one current thread is "once again, we got out coached!"). The narrative that Roy is a great recruiter and maybe not so good a game coach while K is a great game coach but maybe not such a good recruiter is one that is certainly shared by many members of both fan communities.

I could see how it might be interpreted that way. I am not sure of the age of kids/people who are on there. It may just be that it is a younger crowd and I am out of date as far as what kids say to one another.

GO DUKE!

[ricks68]

I don't think it is so much that K is not as good a recruiter as Roy, but that his own criteria eliminates a number of recruits that Roy goes after, and the perception that there will be an additional academic burden placed upon them outside of bball probably eliminates even more.

I have constantly read on this board about the supposedly low academic standards at UNC. In reality, I think this just isn't the case. It's just that a much larger state school most likely ends up offering many more courses that are not that demanding. A student then is given the opportunity to take a lot more courses of that nature than they would be able to take at a much smaller institution like Duke. It doesn't mean that a student at UNC does not have the option of taking the more difficult road to their degree, and subsequently end up with a fine education. I think that UNC, being a state school, has an obligation to educate as many of its citizens as possible. By offering a much wider range of classes to students of varying academic abilities, it fulfills this obligation.

Therefore, I believe that without this "easier" path available at Duke, a number of very talented recruits are scared off-------------even if they performed well academically in high school. So, even with the dangling of the Duke Degree carrot in front of them, I believe that their perception of the rigors involved in maintaining their academic eligibility, in addition to their bball obligation, may very well scare a number of recruits off. K can't be faulted for that. Besides, it wouldn't surprise me if K actually uses that as a way to weed out players that he feels may have a lack of confidence in themselves, and therefore, wouldn't have fit into his system anyway.

ricks

[Kewlswim]

I don't think it is so much that K is not as good a recruiter as Roy, but that his own criteria eliminates a number of recruits that Roy goes after, and the perception that there will be an additional academic burden placed upon them outside of bball probably eliminates even more.

I have constantly read on this board about the supposedly low academic standards at UNC. In reality, I think this just isn't the case. It's just that a much larger state school most likely ends up offering many more courses that are not that demanding. A student then is given the opportunity to take a lot more courses of that nature than they would be able to take at a much smaller institution like Duke. It doesn't mean that a student at UNC does not have the option of taking the more difficult road to their degree, and subsequently end up with a fine education. I think that UNC, being a state school, has an obligation to educate as many of its citizens as possible. By offering a much wider range of classes to students of varying academic abilities, it fulfills this obligation.

Therefore, I believe that without this "easier" path available at Duke, a number of very talented recruits are scared off-------------even if they performed well academically in high school. So, even with the dangling of the Duke Degree carrot in front of them, I believe that their perception of the rigors involved in maintaining their academic eligibility, in addition to their bball obligation, may very well scare a number of recruits off. K can't be faulted for that. Besides, it wouldn't surprise me if K actually uses that as a way to weed out players that he feels may have a lack of confidence in themselves, and therefore, wouldn't have fit into his system anyway.

ricks

Hi,

I have heard Coach K say that some other recruiters use the rigors of Duke as a reason given to a potential student to go to school X as opposed to attending Duke. I even heard a Georgia Tech player/graduate (Maybe it was John Salley? can't remember who) say something to the effect that nobody told him that calculus was required until arriving at GTech. At one time every student at Tech had to take calculus, not sure if that is true anymore.

GO DUKE!

[ice-9]

I've been saying it forever now but recruiting comes in cycles. Without Hansbrough, Felton and Lawson, Roy wouldn't be on the pedestal he's on now. His championships came down to these three key players -- that's how thin the line is separating greatness from merely good.

Don't forget our good ol' Roy is the same Kansas coach who had a reputation for choking in the NCAA tournament! His philosophy didn't suddenly change when he got to UNC; he's still the same guy, maybe just a little luckier in his recruiting.

This year Roy regressing to the mean; similar to our McRoberts class, his heralded recruiting class hasn't panned to expectations. Here's to hoping next year is more of the same...for them. :)

[flyingdutchdevil]

This year Roy regressing to the mean; similar to our McRoberts class, his heralded recruiting class hasn't panned to expectations. Here's to hoping next year is more of the same...for them. :)

I think this is a great point. I do see parallels between the 2 "monster" recruiting classes.

It really goes to show that sometimes a heralded recruit just isn't what you expected. It is certainly a little too early to call the class a bust, but they aren't what the bball world thought they would be. The Wears were a semi-project and weren't excepted to dominate from the beginning (ala Boateng and Boykins) - just good role players. So it's a little unfair to hate on their game. McDonald doesn't understand D and his bread-and-butter - his shot - hasn't been very good. Strickland is one of the most streaky players in the ACC. And my personal favorite, Henson. Where to start with this guy? Has there ever been a top 5 recruit who simply couldn't get on the floor? Ole Roy missed very badly on that one (FYI - I really hope that all of us mocking Henson doesn't bite us on the @ss in the next few years...that would really suck).

Recruiting classes are hit or miss. Generally, the higher the ranking, the more "hit" a player is going to be. But that isn't always the case. Duke has definitely had its fair share of misses (or as a bunch of you would rather say, "underachievers"), but so does / will UNC. I just hope a certain 6-8 SF going to UNC next year is a major miss....

[oldnavy]

I am not so sure that DrewII would be a bad recruit for us. It seems pretty obvious that roy is forcing him to play at a speed that he is uncomfortable playing at. If he were at Duke with a coach that understands how to fit a style to his players abilities, I think that you would see a different type player.

[diveonthefloor]

This is clearly tangential to topic but I didn't want to start a new thread and can't find the answer using the forum search tool, or google for that matter.

Does anyone know why Drew calls himself "Drew II"?
I thought that a boy named after his dad is usually called "Jr". I assume Drew II doesn't already have his own son "III"....what is the explanation?

[hurleyfor3]

I even heard a Georgia Tech player/graduate (Maybe it was John Salley? can't remember who) say something to the effect that nobody told him that calculus was required until arriving at GTech. At one time every student at Tech had to take calculus, not sure if that is true anymore.

GO DUKE!

Unless things have changed since the early 1990s, you definitely don't have to take calculus at Duke. Trinity had that "five out of six areas of knowledge" thing so you could completely could drop QR. Of course most of us engineers placed out of it anyway and started with Math 103.

[moonpie23]

I've been saying it forever now but recruiting comes in cycles. Without Hansbrough, Felton and Lawson, Roy wouldn't be on the pedestal he's on now.


please don't give roy more credit than he is due. If you leave out SEAN"pizza-hut-on-speed-dial" MAY, you give roy more than he deserves......and MAY was definitely a major factor in that title run.

remember, roy only CO-owns that first title.....
:eek:


edit: i still think State should have hired matt doh......how INTERESTING would that rivalry be now?

[El_Diablo]

I've been saying it forever now but recruiting comes in cycles. Without Hansbrough, Felton and Lawson, Roy wouldn't be on the pedestal he's on now. His championships came down to these three key players -- that's how thin the line is separating greatness from merely good.

Don't forget our good ol' Roy is the same Kansas coach who had a reputation for choking in the NCAA tournament! His philosophy didn't suddenly change when he got to UNC; he's still the same guy, maybe just a little luckier in his recruiting.

This year Roy regressing to the mean; similar to our McRoberts class, his heralded recruiting class hasn't panned to expectations. Here's to hoping next year is more of the same...for them. :)

For the record, Matt Doherty actually brought Felton to UNC (along with May and McCants). Roy inherited them.

EDIT: I guess Moonpie beat me to it!

[Devilsfan]

I regret there's not a Drew III and Drew IV to lead the heels in the future. I love watching this kid playing point and adding new meaning to the position.

[ncexnyc]

I think it's pretty silly to judge a recruiting class before that group has played it's last game.

As we've all seen, some kids come in and are immediate impact players, while the vast majority of them develop at a slower pace, and then there is that handful who never live up to their high school billing.

I also am a firm believer in the old saying, "If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen." So for anyone who is a tad sensitive and can't take what's dished out at IC or the turtle site, maybe they should just stay away.

[MarkD83]

I think it's pretty silly to judge a recruiting class before that group has played it's last game.

As we've all seen, some kids come in and are immediate impact players, while the vast majority of them develop at a slower pace, and then there is that handful who never live up to their high school billing.



Most college players only improve incrementally. The key is for them to maximize the skills they have coming in.

[Thurber Whyte]

This is clearly tangential to topic but I didn't want to start a new thread and can't find the answer using the forum search tool, or google for that matter.

Does anyone know why Drew calls himself "Drew II"?
I thought that a boy named after his dad is usually called "Jr". I assume Drew II doesn't already have his own son "III"....what is the explanation?

II as opposed to Junior traditionally indicates a nephew rather than a son with the same name.

[SCMatt33]

II as opposed to Junior traditionally indicates a nephew rather than a son with the same name.

I have seen it where a "II" is named for his grandfather, while his dad has a different name, but this isn't the case with Drew.

[jjasper0729]

found this.. hope it helps:

If your name is John Henry Doe and you name your son John Henry Doe, you then become Senior (Sr.) and your son Junior (Jr.), not the second (II). If your son John Henry Doe, Jr. names his son (your grandson) the same, his son then becomes 'the third"', i.e. John Henry Doe III. However, if you name your son Richard Henry or John Harold, anything but John Henry Doe, but he still names his son (your grandson) after you, your grandson then becomes John Henry Doe II. Likewise if your brother Edward Charles Doe names his son after you, that child (your nephew) would also be John Henry Doe II. A 'junior" always has the same name as his father whereas "the second" is not named for his father but does have the same name as an older relative (grandfather, uncle, cousin, etc.). The 'third" is the third descendant in a family with the same name in either direct or indirect line. In everyday practice, the Sr., Jr., III are often only used when all parties are living but genealogically it is important to maintain the correct title to prevent confusion.

for the record, I'm III so my dad is Jr. (although my grandfather, Sr., has since passed). When I was young, my grandfather was Big Joe, my dad was Little Joe and I was Joe the third (or Joseph, but only my grandmother can call me that now :) )...

sorry about keeping the tangent going :)

[sagegrouse]

I have seen it where a "II" is named for his grandfather, while his dad has a different name, but this isn't the case with Drew.

I believe the answer is in the rhyme, "Drew Tew," vs. the non-rhyming and dissonant, "Drew Junior." It was too tempting for Dad and Mom, I believe.

Unhappily so, since I think that "Larry Drew Two" sounds like a narrative of a poker hand.

sagegrouse

[CDu]

Hi,

I watched the UNC game and Drew might turn into a good pt guard. The point I am making has more to do with what people on this site would be saying about Coach K's recruiting ability if Drew were a Blue Devil. I can only imagine the statements people would make on here. Is it just possible Ole Roy made a mistake (or two) in some of his recruiting? On here sometimes it seems like people think he never makes a recruiting mistake. It seems like Drew and a few of the other players are not panning out so well or at least to date they haven't.

GO DUKE!

I'd love to have Drew. He'd be a great option for us as a backup PG to give Scheyer a break, as well as backcourt depth.

With regard to your actual point, I suspect that most people understand that Williams has some recruiting misses too. His success is that he seems to keep getting the guys he goes after, and for the most part he's gone after the right guys.

For one thing, it wasn't like Drew was some otherwordly recruit. He was a 4-star guy coming out of high school. For another, he's actually having a very good season (8.4 ppg, 6.4 apg, 1.98 a/to ratio, 45.7% 3pt%). Sure, he's struggled to score against good teams, but it's not like he was expected to carry the scoring load for UNC. In my opinion, the problem with the UNC team isn't so much Drew as it is the rest of the backcourt being either too inexperienced or too mediocre.

[Devilsfan]

Drew would be a great practice player to spell Jordan!

[kmspeaks]

This is clearly tangential to topic but I didn't want to start a new thread and can't find the answer using the forum search tool, or google for that matter.

Does anyone know why Drew calls himself "Drew II"?
I thought that a boy named after his dad is usually called "Jr". I assume Drew II doesn't already have his own son "III"....what is the explanation?


found this.. hope it helps:

If your name is John Henry Doe and you name your son John Henry Doe, you then become Senior (Sr.) and your son Junior (Jr.), not the second (II). If your son John Henry Doe, Jr. names his son (your grandson) the same, his son then becomes 'the third"', i.e. John Henry Doe III. However, if you name your son Richard Henry or John Harold, anything but John Henry Doe, but he still names his son (your grandson) after you, your grandson then becomes John Henry Doe II. Likewise if your brother Edward Charles Doe names his son after you, that child (your nephew) would also be John Henry Doe II. A 'junior" always has the same name as his father whereas "the second" is not named for his father but does have the same name as an older relative (grandfather, uncle, cousin, etc.). The 'third" is the third descendant in a family with the same name in either direct or indirect line. In everyday practice, the Sr., Jr., III are often only used when all parties are living but genealogically it is important to maintain the correct title to prevent confusion.

for the record, I'm III so my dad is Jr. (although my grandfather, Sr., has since passed). When I was young, my grandfather was Big Joe, my dad was Little Joe and I was Joe the third (or Joseph, but only my grandmother can call me that now :) )...

sorry about keeping the tangent going :)


All this is true but parents are in control when it comes to naming their kids. My dad and brother have the same name and they are the only 2 in the family with that name. Dad wanted his son named after him but my mom could not stand the thought of having a junior so my brother is the II. Caused a little stir in the hospital when the nurse tried to tell her it had to be junior. :D

[allenmurray]

I have constantly read on this board about the supposedly low academic standards at UNC. In reality, I think this just isn't the case. It's just that a much larger state school most likely ends up offering many more courses that are not that demanding. A student then is given the opportunity to take a lot more courses of that nature than they would be able to take at a much smaller institution like Duke. It doesn't mean that a student at UNC does not have the option of taking the more difficult road to their degree, and subsequently end up with a fine education. I think that UNC, being a state school, has an obligation to educate as many of its citizens as possible. By offering a much wider range of classes to students of varying academic abilities, it fulfills this obligation.

This is very well stated. As a Duke fan who works at UNC I try to see both sides. UNC is an excellent school - but it has a different mission than Duke. Duke supporters who act as though Duke is academically superior may be somewhat correct, but they are also ignoring the different missions of the two schools. UNC can be just as acadeically rigorous as Duke for students who want it to be. Because of its size and wider course and program offerrings it can also be less challenging.

While it is the most selective school in the UNC system, it is still a state school, supported by state dollars, and with a mission to educate the citizens of North Carolina. Duke is a national university, supported by tuition and donor dollars, with a mission to be an elite university. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that this impacts recruiting.

[jimsumner]

"It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that this impacts recruiting. "

What level of academic training does it take to figure out what is a rocket surgeon? Is that anything like a brain scientist? :)

[allenmurray]

"It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that this impacts recruiting. "

What level of academic training does it take to figure out what is a rocket surgeon? Is that anything like a brain scientist? :)

I am neither a rocket surgeon nor a brain scientist, nor a stand-up comedian), but it was intentional, not a slip! :D

On the other hand, have you ever tried to do brain surgery while on a rocket? Challenging indeed! ;)

[wilko]

Drew would be a great practice player to spell Jordan!

I'm no Heels fan by any measure...
but its bad form to belittle him THIS way.

Isnt it enuff to simply say that: "I hope he continues the fine level of play that he has demonstrated so far this yr and that he can develop to consistently perform that way moving forward."

No need to give the young man locker room fodder.
God forbid that the light goes off and he gets it done... or Roy Loses patiece and makes Graves the point man.

[MChambers]

I'm no Heels fan by any measure...
but its bad form to belittle him THIS way.

Isnt it enuff to simply say that: "I hope he continues the fine level of play that he has demonstrated so far this yr and that he can develop to consistently perform that way moving forward."

No need to give the young man locker room fodder.
God forbid that the light goes off and he gets it done... or Roy Loses patiece and makes Graves the point man.

So Drew isn't the second coming of Ray Felton or Ty Lawson. He's a perfectly decent college point guard, however. He did pretty well last year when Lawson was out, because he had a stronger team around him.

If he were on Duke this year, he'd be playing. He wouldn't be starting or playing major minutes, but he'd fill an important role.

[NYDukie]

So Drew isn't the second coming of Ray Felton or Ty Lawson. He's a perfectly decent college point guard, however. He did pretty well last year when Lawson was out, because he had a stronger team around him.

If he were on Duke this year, he'd be playing. He wouldn't be starting or playing major minutes, but he'd fill an important role.

Yeah, the Drew bashing is a bit ingnorant. In fact, you can possibly argue that Drew's play to date would have been more beneficial to our team, say a few years ago than that of Paulus'. People here have to remember that prior to this year, our PG play the past few year's haven't been up to par either.

[CDu]

So Drew isn't the second coming of Ray Felton or Ty Lawson. He's a perfectly decent college point guard, however. He did pretty well last year when Lawson was out, because he had a stronger team around him.

If he were on Duke this year, he'd be playing. He wouldn't be starting or playing major minutes, but he'd fill an important role.

Actually, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was playing major minutes. He probably wouldn't get 30+ minutes like our big 3, but I can't see a situation in which a guy averaging 6 assists and a 2:1 assist:turnover ratio wouldn't get major minutes (20+) for a team with only one real point guard. I suspect he'd be getting the regular PT as the third guard, allowing Scheyer to play some at the 2 or 3, Singler some at the 4, and not requiring as much out of Dawkins except to come in and be instant offense.

And as has been noted by another poster, aside from Scheyer this year he's giving UNC better numbers than we've had at PG since Duhon.

The guy is obviously not a great scorer, and that's showing in his performances against good teams. But even against good teams, he's getting at least 5 assists and has generally had a solid assist:turnover ratio. He's not the problem as I see it for UNC. It's the lack of progress for all the other wings that's the problem.

[MChambers]

Actually, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was playing major minutes. He probably wouldn't get 30+ minutes like our big 3, but I can't see a situation in which a guy averaging 6 assists and a 2:1 assist:turnover ratio wouldn't get major minutes (20+) for a team with only one real point guard. I suspect he'd be getting the regular PT as the third guard, allowing Scheyer to play some at the 2 or 3, Singler some at the 4, and not requiring as much out of Dawkins except to come in and be instant offense.

And as has been noted by another poster, aside from Scheyer this year he's giving UNC better numbers than we've had at PG since Duhon.

The guy is obviously not a great scorer, and that's showing in his performances against good teams. But even against good teams, he's getting at least 5 assists and has generally had a solid assist:turnover ratio. He's not the problem as I see it for UNC. It's the lack of progress for all the other wings that's the problem.

I was thinking he'd get 15 or so a game, but I could see 20.

[Kedsy]

Yeah, the Drew bashing is a bit ingnorant. In fact, you can possibly argue that Drew's play to date would have been more beneficial to our team, say a few years ago than that of Paulus'. People here have to remember that prior to this year, our PG play the past few year's haven't been up to par either.

I think the point of the original poster of this thread was not to belittle Drew but instead to theorize about the amount of Duke-bashing that would be happening on our own board if Drew was our current starting PG.

While Greg Paulus was our PG, how much did we hear about how K's recruits don't develop or never were any good to begin with and how Ol' Roy the superrecruiter would never have allowed himself to be in a position to be relying upon such a PG? And then, voila, here we are. I'm not the OP, but his point seems valid to me.

[CDu]

I think the point of the original poster of this thread was not to belittle Drew but instead to theorize about the amount of Duke-bashing that would be happening on our own board if Drew was our current starting PG.

While Greg Paulus was our PG, how much did we hear about how K's recruits don't develop or never were any good to begin with and how Ol' Roy the superrecruiter would never have allowed himself to be in a position to be relying upon such a PG? And then, voila, here we are. I'm not the OP, but his point seems valid to me.

I agree that was the OP's point. But I disagree that we'd be dissatisfied with a PG who averaged 6+ assists, shot over 40% from 3pt range, and had an assist:turnover ratio of 2:1, and appears to play solid defense.

The gnashing of teeth regarding Paulus was that he frequently got beat off the dribble and struggled to run the offense. Drew doesn't seem to have that problem. Drew is not a world-beater at PG, but he's much more the type of playmaking PG that many posters on this board wanted.

[NYDukie]

I think the point of the original poster of this thread was not to belittle Drew but instead to theorize about the amount of Duke-bashing that would be happening on our own board if Drew was our current starting PG.

While Greg Paulus was our PG, how much did we hear about how K's recruits don't develop or never were any good to begin with and how Ol' Roy the superrecruiter would never have allowed himself to be in a position to be relying upon such a PG? And then, voila, here we are. I'm not the OP, but his point seems valid to me.

I'm not reacting to the OP but more so to some other posters who kind of ran with the OP comments and threw Drew under the bus. Is he Lawson or Felton? No he isn't and I don't think he was probably recruited with the thought he would be since he was, if I recall, rated in the 50 range, a 4 star recruit. A solid above rating but not someone thoguht of in the same breath as Lawson or Felton who were among the top 2-3 PGs in their classes.

I agree with you comment with Paulus. I believe that K and Roy are among the top 5 recruiters in the game but when, and it does happen, they miss on a few recruits in or near succession, that Coach is immediately compared to the other becuase of the 8 mile difference and battle for national prominence. However, there is a big difference in the expectations that were expected of Paulus compared to Drew and hence, the subsequent criticisim Paulus and Coach K received for that back half of Paulus' years at Duke which I think will remain harsher compared to what Drew and Roy may receive since the expectations of Drew were and are not as great. Yes, UNC is coming off a NC but not may expected Drew to be what Lawson was and that other members of the UNC team (i.e. Thompson, Davis and Henson) were expected to carry the burden of expectatoins more so than Drew.

[Kedsy]

I agree that was the OP's point. But I disagree that we'd be dissatisfied with a PG who averaged 6+ assists, shot over 40% from 3pt range, and had an assist:turnover ratio of 2:1, and appears to play solid defense.

The gnashing of teeth regarding Paulus was that he frequently got beat off the dribble and struggled to run the offense. Drew doesn't seem to have that problem. Drew is not a world-beater at PG, but he's much more the type of playmaking PG that many posters on this board wanted.

I happen to think Drew's having a pretty good year. But IMO the gnashing of teeth regarding Paulus was his 2007 team had a substandard year by Duke standards and his next two teams lost early in the NCAAT.

Imagine if our season this year was UNC's:

-- started the year in the top 5 with a blend of savvy experience and a truckload of exciting young talent;

-- four pre-season losses, including Charleston

-- two of three losses to open ACC season

-- our supposed star senior big man having just 9.7 ppg and 5 rpg in conference play

-- our lottery pick superstar going for just 4 pts and 4 rebs against Clemson

-- our PG shooting 1 for 8 in a two point loss at home and only reaching double-figure scoring 3 times against BCS competition

-- not one of the star freshman class scoring as many as 6 ppg and only one scoring more than 3.something

-- people mentioning our name and "bubble" in the same sentence

Can you imagine what the board would sound like? We can't recruit PGs. We can't develop big men. How could anyone have thought our recruits were really as good as their ratings? Why did we give such early offers to our twin freshmen when maybe we could have gotten the brothers from down the road? How come our rival's coach can turn an imperfect team into a winner but ours can't? Etc., etc. People would be counting down until our inevitable demotion to Division II status and calling for our entire coaching staff to be shipped off in little crates to southeast Asia.

Maybe Drew is the wrong poster boy for this concept, but that shouldn't obscure the moral of this story.

[BD80]

I've been saying it forever now but recruiting comes in cycles. Without Hansbrough, Felton and Lawson, Roy wouldn't be on the pedestal he's on now. His championships came down to these three key players -- that's how thin the line is separating greatness from merely good. ...

And the Lawson brush with the law that kept him in school an extra year! They don't win the championship without Lawson.


All this is true but parents are in control when it comes to naming their kids. My dad and brother have the same name and they are the only 2 in the family with that name. Dad wanted his son named after him but my mom could not stand the thought of having a junior so my brother is the II. Caused a little stir in the hospital when the nurse tried to tell her it had to be junior. :D

But by naming him II, he didn't have the exact same name, so he is NOT junior!

[CDu]

...IMO the gnashing of teeth regarding Paulus was his 2007 team had a substandard year by Duke standards and his next two teams lost early in the NCAAT.

I don't disagree that these are correlated, but I think you're omitting the major reason for the teeth-gnashing re: Paulus. Paulus took a beating because he just wasn't a terribly good PG at the ACC level. I think this was evidenced by the fact that the team essentially changed their entire offensive gameplan to mask the fact that they didn't have a playmaking PG (in retrospect, maybe Scheyer should have gotten a look at PG a lot sooner?). Paulus was generally a solid player, he just wasn't suited to play the position that he was recruited to play. And his position (PG) happened to be one that many felt was a big need on those teams. The teeth-gnashing was the realization that the offense suffered at times because they didn't have a guy who could break down a defense and create offense for others (which Drew is actually fairly solid at doing).


Maybe Drew is the wrong poster boy for this concept, but that shouldn't obscure the moral of this story.

I agree with this. I don't think there is a good comp for Paulus on this year's UNC team. The freshmen are too inexperienced, the seniors weren't expected to do as much as Paulus, and I'd argue that Drew has been a better PG than Paulus was.