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rotogod00
01-15-2010, 11:23 AM
Not sure if this is new thread material, but didn't see it anywhere else, and thought it quite interesting.

Q&A in Bilas ESPN chat yesterday (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30304/ncaa-bb-with-jay-bilas):

Q: Jay, I keep hearing you say Mason Plumlee is Duke's most talented player. I'd probably agree with most athletic potential, and maybe most talented big man... but do you really think he's the overall most talented?? I'd argue for Smith, Scheyer and Singler over him, and not just because they score more.

A: You can argue all you want to, but Mason Plumlee is the most talented player on the roster. Give him some time, and he will be the best player on the roster, as well. He is competitive and skilled, and when he learns how to play, he will be really, really good. Scheyer is better right now, but he is not more talented than Mason, nor is Singler or Smith. No way.But, I could be wrong. I was wrong once when I was a little kid when I mistakenly thought I was wrong. Of course, I was not.

RainingThrees
01-15-2010, 11:30 AM
I have heard him say this nearly every Duke game he has commented on. I would say Plumlee II has the most potential on Duke's team, which could be synonymous with talented I guess.

KyDevilinIL
01-15-2010, 11:35 AM
As usual, Jay's right. Just from the eyeball test lately, Mason's clearly got the goods and the potential to become truly special. I'd say Jon, Nolan and Kyle have done a spectacular job of maximizing their talents, but if Mason puts in the same work and makes the same development, he could be breathtakingly good.

Mrezt
01-15-2010, 11:43 AM
I'm just tryin to have some fun watching him grow this season

and i cant wait to see next year with a soph. mason and kyrie irving delivering the ball to him :) not to mention everyone else..

greybeard
01-15-2010, 03:46 PM
Kyle already is truly special. ACC rookie of the year, ACC 2d team, and clearly the one essential piece to the success Duke had his first two years there. If G didn't go early, he'd be playing the 4 still and would be killing people. Now he's adjusting to something different, which Bilas was unfortunately unable to do and so became a talking head way too before his time.

Potentially speaking, if he puts on muscle, Mr. Ryan happens to have the most upside of anyone currently playing for Duke, in my opinion.

Devilsfan
01-15-2010, 03:57 PM
Upside, potential they're both great words. But I like it better when they are actually fulfilled.

greybeard
01-15-2010, 04:10 PM
Upside, potential they're both great words. But I like it better when they are actually fulfilled.

Agreed. Bilas had to be talking potential since Miles obviously is not actually doing anything particularly special now, nor has he in the past on this level. K said some amazing things this week about Ryan, which I have to humbly say were similar to the perspectives I shared here before the season began off watching a few U-Tube clips.

FerryFor50
01-15-2010, 04:23 PM
Agreed. Bilas had to be talking potential since Miles obviously is not actually doing anything particularly special now, nor has he in the past on this level. K said some amazing things this week about Ryan, which I have to humbly say were similar to the perspectives I shared here before the season began off watching a few U-Tube clips.

Yea, but Bilas is talking about Mason, not Miles. :D

Huh?
01-15-2010, 05:12 PM
Bilas also said Clemson has to be at least the 5th hardest place to play in the ACC.

Cockabeau
01-15-2010, 05:57 PM
Jay is 100% correct here. There isn't one thing Mason can't do on the basketball court.

greybeard
01-15-2010, 06:31 PM
Jay is 100% correct here. There isn't one thing Mason can't do on the basketball court.

One thing I'm betting he can't do that Singler has done is win the rookie of the year in the ACC, or for that matter, outplay anybody of note head up, as Singler did night after night, with a couple of exceptions, for his ENTIRE rookie year. Those ships have sailed.

The future, we shall have to see. Being 100 percent right on a guess that has yet to be tested is like a million times zero, no?

Cockabeau
01-15-2010, 07:24 PM
If Mason got Kyle's minutes and the freedom you would see numbers similar to what Kyle put up his freshmen year.

MarkD83
01-15-2010, 09:28 PM
Bilas also said Clemson has to be at least the 5th hardest place to play in the ACC.

With only 12 teams in the league 5th best is rather mediocre.

Tappan Zee Devil
01-15-2010, 10:04 PM
With only 12 teams in the league 5th best is rather mediocre.

OK - As a point of discussion, what gyms in the ACC would you rate as the toughest. CIS is clearly number 1, but how would you rate the others. I would put Carmichael and Reynolds near the top, but of course that dates me. :)
(but afterall I am a stray dinosaur)

Jim
T '70 (class of Stray Gator)

MarkD83
01-15-2010, 10:26 PM
OK - As a point of discussion, what gyms in the ACC would you rate as the toughest. CIS is clearly number 1, but how would you rate the others. I would put Carmichael and Reynolds near the top, but of course that dates me. :)
(but afterall I am a stray dinosaur)

Jim
T '70 (class of Stray Gator)

CIS is the easiest from a Duke perspective so I will rate them from that perspective. Here is a first guess just to start the conversation.

Duke has a difficult time at...

1. FSU
2. Clemson
3. Md
4. VT
5. GT
6. UNC
7. Wake
8. NCSU
9. Miami
10. BC
11. UVA

WiJoe
01-15-2010, 11:39 PM
... Now he's adjusting to something different, which Bilas was unfortunately unable to do and so became a talking head way too before his time.


ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT!
ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT!
ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT!
ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT!
ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT! ZINGER ALERT!

:D

or, maybe not

;)

Verga3
01-15-2010, 11:49 PM
Good call again from Jay, even if he's been wrong once before. Mason has the ability and has the perfect coach to grow into one of the best here. The Plumlees will be discussed years from now when we debate the best collegiate brother combos ever. Great kids, great family....will make Duke proud.

-bdbd
01-16-2010, 12:03 AM
CIS is the easiest from a Duke perspective so I will rate them from that perspective. Here is a first guess just to start the conversation.

Duke has a difficult time at...

1. FSU
2. Clemson
3. Md
4. VT
5. GT
6. UNC
7. Wake
8. NCSU
9. Miami
10. BC
11. UVA

In terms of overall difficulty of playing there, not just for Duke, I'd rank them like this (just the arena/fans):

1 Duke
2 MD
3 Clemson
4 GT
5 VT
6 FSU
7 Wake
8 BC
9 UNC
10 NCSU
11 Mia
12 UVA

In my perception, 4 - 8 could vary from year to year based on their team's quality. BTW, I've actually been to most of these arenas.

1999ballboy
01-16-2010, 01:47 AM
Hehe. My brother was the one who sent in that question.

As of now, Josh McRoberts was a better freshman than Mason Plumlee. There are some similarities between their games, by the way. McRoberts improved remarkably little between his freshman and sophomore year and then he bolted. My point is that there are no guarantees.

Bilas may still be right though. Miles Plumlee may be a more apt comparison than McRoberts. Last year, he wasn't ready to play significant minutes. This year, he's quite effective. Not great, but effective, and capable of playing great games. Mason right now is clearly more talented than his brother, though still not as consistent. That should come with more experience though. If Mason improves like his brother has, we could see incredible things. Mason has the higher ceiling of the two, no doubt.

devildownunder
01-16-2010, 06:41 AM
One thing I'm betting he can't do that Singler has done is win the rookie of the year in the ACC, or for that matter, outplay anybody of note head up, as Singler did night after night, with a couple of exceptions, for his ENTIRE rookie year. Those ships have sailed.

The future, we shall have to see. Being 100 percent right on a guess that has yet to be tested is like a million times zero, no?

Bilas said Mason had the most talent. In this context, I think talent and potential are virtually interchangeable. I think he's right about Mason but, as you say, tell will tell. If he had called Mason Duke's best player right now he'd be out to lunch but he didn't do that. In fact, he took pains to make it clear that he wasn't calling MP2 Duke's best.

Cockabeau
01-16-2010, 07:19 AM
Hehe. My brother was the one who sent in that question.

As of now, Josh McRoberts was a better freshman than Mason Plumlee. There are some similarities between their games, by the way.

Wrong. There are not similar players at all. Mason actually HAS a jumpshot. Mason has a superior attitude to Josh from what I can see also. Mason is a much better player than Josh.

lpd1982
01-16-2010, 07:55 AM
The other players LIKE Mason.

slower
01-16-2010, 08:03 AM
Wrong. There are not similar players at all. Mason actually HAS a jumpshot. Mason has a superior attitude to Josh from what I can see also. Mason is a much better player than Josh.

Just go look at their stats. As of now, Mason's freshman year stats are LOWER than Josh's in EVERY listed category (including ALL shooting percentages). Hey, I like Mason and think he'll be great, and I know it's so very fashionable to bash Josh. And I also know that stats don't necessarily tell the whole story (unless, of course, we are talking about the sacred +/- figures for Zoubs), but I think we should reserve judgment until the end of the season.

Mason HAS a jumpshot? Aside from that one three that he hit, I don't recall the jumper being a featured part of his arsenal. Look, I agree with you that Mason will be a better player than Josh (and I liked Josh), I just think you're a bit premature with your declarations.

moonpie23
01-16-2010, 09:04 AM
i am a total Mason P fan......and i think the upside is going to be amazing.

There is only one thing that i've seen him do that i did not like. (aside from simple freshman mistakes).

the other night against BC, he looked like he got caught up in a little mano y mano measuring with the BC kid and tried to slap the ball away, didn't get the slap, then tried again, still did not get it and then, LOOKED like and gave the BC kid a look of "OK, LET'S GO !" And then got the foul called on him...

seems like he lost his freshman head just a bit....he was immediately benched....


did i see that wrong?

slower
01-16-2010, 09:12 AM
i am a total Mason P fan......and i think the upside is going to be amazing.

There is only one thing that i've seen him do that i did not like. (aside from simple freshman mistakes).

the other night against BC, he looked like he got caught up in a little mano y mano measuring with the BC kid and tried to slap the ball away, didn't get the slap, then tried again, still did not get it and then, LOOKED like and gave the BC kid a look of "OK, LET'S GO !" And then got the foul called on him...

seems like he lost his freshman head just a bit....he was immediately benched....


did i see that wrong?

I LOVED what he did. If anything, we need MORE of that kind of attitude. I want guys on our team who will not be punked.

It seemed like they were both trying to hold on to the ball because the held ball hadn't been called yet (please correct me if I saw it wrong).

That's EXACTLY the same thing that Kyle would have done (except that Kyle would have not shown any emotion while doing it) - and that, my friends, is one of the greatest compliments I can bestow on another player. :D We need WARRIORS on this team. I'm not talking about guys who start crap, just guys who won't TAKE crap.

Many of you probably disagree, but I think there is (and has been) a general perception that you can get into our players' heads by bringing a "street" mentality. I WANT players like Kyle (the ultimate warrior) and Nolan and now Mason who will NOT back down. Seriously, how many times in the past few years have we seen the Miamis and Virginia Techs and Florida States and Georgia Techs of the world come in and try to intimidate/rough up our guys? It's time to let them know that that particular game ain't gonna work any more.

Maybe Coach James can provide a little insight to these guys :)

moonpie23
01-16-2010, 09:21 AM
no, i don't think that was the play.....if i remember correctly, it was after a missed basked and the BC guy came down with the rebound. The teams had started to go the other way and MP2 tried to take a swipe at knocking it out of the BC player's hands, but it didn't budge.

mason wasn't trying to START anything except maybe poke the ball away for a steal....then when it didn't happen, he slapped at it again....and then AGAIN....that's when he kinda got in the BC's players face.

kyle doesn't take anyone's bs....but kyle doesn't let the emotion of the contested issue make him lose his temper......MP3 LOOKED like he was on the very edge of, shall we say, "a display of athleticism not in context of the basketball game"

oldnavy
01-16-2010, 09:25 AM
I LOVED what he did. If anything, we need MORE of that kind of attitude. I want guys on our team who will not be punked.

It seemed like they were both trying to hold on to the ball because the held ball hadn't been called yet (please correct me if I saw it wrong).

That's EXACTLY the same thing that Kyle would have done (except that Kyle would have not shown any emotion while doing it) - and that, my friends, is one of the greatest compliments I can bestow on another player. :D We need WARRIORS on this team. I'm not talking about guys who start crap, just guys who won't TAKE crap.

Many of you probably disagree, but I think there is (and has been) a general perception that you can get into our players' heads by bringing a "street" mentality. I WANT players like Kyle (the ultimate warrior) and Nolan and now Mason who will NOT back down. Seriously, how many times in the past few years have we seen the Miamis and Virginia Techs and Florida States and Georgia Techs of the world come in and try to intimidate/rough up our guys? It's time to let them know that that particular game ain't gonna work any more.

Maybe Coach James can provide a little insight to these guys :)

I have to agree. I like that Mason has an "edge" to his game. But, I love that Singler has the same edge, yet he removes his emotions from the situation. Kyle will get pounded on a hard foul, and get up smiling, like "is that all you got"... he also has a look that is a bit scary... deep set eyes, sort of expressionless stare... that will get deeper into someone's head than bumping chest with them... Hopefully Kyle can work with Mason to channel his emotion the same way.

slower
01-16-2010, 09:25 AM
no, i don't think that was the play.....if i remember correctly, it was after a missed basked and the BC guy came down with the rebound. The teams had started to go the other way and MP2 tried to take a swipe at knocking it out of the BC player's hands, but it didn't budge.

mason wasn't trying to START anything except maybe poke the ball away for a steal....then when it didn't happen, he slapped at it again....and then AGAIN....that's when he kinda got in the BC's players face.

kyle doesn't take anyone's bs....but kyle doesn't let the emotion of the contested issue make him lose his temper......MP3 LOOKED like he was on the very edge of, shall we say, "a display of athleticism not in context of the basketball game"

I was referring to a different play where MP2 and one of their bigs were fighting over a loose ball (or actually, I think Mason was trying to tie him up for the held ball call).

If Mason can adopt Kyle's stoicism, that will be awesome. You're right - we don't want guys losing their cool out there - unless it's "situation appropriate" :D (kidding...sort of)

greybeard
01-16-2010, 09:27 AM
Bilas said Mason had the most talent. In this context, I think talent and potential are virtually interchangeable. I think he's right about Mason but, as you say, tell will tell. If he had called Mason Duke's best player right now he'd be out to lunch but he didn't do that. In fact, he took pains to make it clear that he wasn't calling MP2 Duke's best.

Look, I see Singler as the most talented player on this team. He is the best rebounder, has an ability to elongate, literally lift his shoulder girdle to reach that is uncanny, and has gotten more contested rebounds against truly great players from a dead still jump than any player I have seen.

He proved impossible in the main for any 4 to guard. Any.

Gerald was voted first team ACC but if you had to chose one last year it would have been Singler.

There is a reason that Singler was a near unanimous pre season pick for First Team All American.

So, he has a dramatic change in position, and has yet to figure out how to be really effective and comfortable in it.

Mason on the ohter hand has done none of these things. Nor has anybody else in the ACC since Kyle has been here. No one. No one has shown the ability to rebound and defend with the bigs, post with the bigs, then take them outside and kill them.

Now Mason might turn out to be the next Hansborough with a little more speed. Me, and this is only my preference, I liked Singler's game more than Hansborough's, and not because one was from UNC and one was from Duke. I think that both display a similar intensity and feel for the team game that basketball is. I thought that Hansborough was terrific around the basket, absolutely terrific, and developed an ability to shoot from decent range.

To me, Singler is less frenetic and displayed an inner joy when he was playing at his highest levels that bespoke someone who really, really was seeing as exceptionally as he was playing. When playing against a 4, he finds ways to slip and get easy looks from 3 range and knock them down, gets to the basket almost at will, and around the basket catches the ball and finishes, in any number of ways, that do not have to include dunking and more often than not don't, which I happen to see as an asset. He draws fouls in droves.

Bilas and you tell me that the muscular, somewhat undersized Mason as an inside player is going to be the next whatever his name was from Oklahoma, fine. Let's say I believe him and you, which still would not make it so.

Until the kid starts to show on this level, and he has done so only a drop, it is in my mind an irresponsible thing for a journalist to say without a shred of evidence to back it up that he has the most talent. Bilas is a new era of media journalist, a YODELER as Tony Kornheisser calls them now, himself included, who can sing any tune they like. Bilas can be great but is way over exposed and needs to find fresh things to say to keep from making himself crazy. Some of the fresh things are stupid and I think that this is one of them. That is not to say that Mason will not be great. Just that Bilas has taken yodeling to levels that even my man T wouldn't go, which is pretty freakin far.

I respectfully dissent and say that the guy with the greatest talent on this team remains Kyle Singler, going away.

slower
01-16-2010, 09:32 AM
To me, Singler is less frenetic...

Singler is not a SPAZ, like Hans ;)

And I totally agree with what (I assume) Greybeard is implying - if Kyle was back playing "the 4", he'd be having the 1st-Team AA year everybody predicted for him.

Cockabeau
01-16-2010, 09:51 AM
Just go look at their stats. As of now, Mason's freshman year stats are LOWER than Josh's in EVERY listed category (including ALL shooting percentages). Hey, I like Mason and think he'll be great, and I know it's so very fashionable to bash Josh. And I also know that stats don't necessarily tell the whole story (unless, of course, we are talking about the sacred +/- figures for Zoubs), but I think we should reserve judgment until the end of the season.

Mason HAS a jumpshot? Aside from that one three that he hit, I don't recall the jumper being a featured part of his arsenal. Look, I agree with you that Mason will be a better player than Josh (and I liked Josh), I just think you're a bit premature with your declarations.

Again you are wrong on all accounts.
1)You are comparing Josh's entire freshmen year to Mason's half year.
2)You criticize Mason's jump shot which is unwise especially when compared to Josh's jump shot which was one of the worst I have ever seen on any level.
3)Josh had Senior Shelden Williams. Does this years squad have anyone close to Shelden? No.

slower
01-16-2010, 09:56 AM
Again you are wrong on all accounts.
1)You are comparing Josh's entire freshmen year to Mason's half year.
2)You criticize Mason's jump shot which is unwise especially when compared to Josh's jump shot which was one of the worst I have ever seen on any level.
3)Josh had Senior Shelden Williams. Does this years squad have anyone close to Shelden? No.

You're gonna make LOTS of friends around here, I can just feel it ;)

CDu
01-16-2010, 09:59 AM
Wrong. There are not similar players at all. Mason actually HAS a jumpshot. Mason has a superior attitude to Josh from what I can see also. Mason is a much better player than Josh.

Mason has a jumpshot? Exactly what evidence have you seen that Plumlee's shot is better than McRoberts's shot as a freshman? Mason is currently 1-4 on 3s and I haven't seen any of his 2-pt jumpers look that great. Comparatively, McRoberts was 5-13 from 3 as a freshman. McRoberts was a 66% FT shooter to Mason's 56%. Mason is hardly differentiating himself there.

In terms of skillsets, I think they are very similar. Both are good ballhandlers and passers for their size (I'd say McRoberts is a bit more polished). Both are great leapers who struggle a bit with the scoring on plays other than dunks/layups. Both have shown an aptitude for rebounding and blocking shots.

Yes, Mason doesn't seem to have the attitude that McRoberts had. But in terms of skillsets they are very similar. I also wouldn't say that Mason is a much better player than McRoberts. He may very well eventually become a much better player than McRoberts, but nothing he's done to this point suggests he's even at McRoberts's level. It's all still potential with Mason.

CDu
01-16-2010, 10:07 AM
Again you are wrong on all accounts.
1)You are comparing Josh's entire freshmen year to Mason's half year.
2)You criticize Mason's jump shot which is unwise especially when compared to Josh's jump shot which was one of the worst I have ever seen on any level.
3)Josh had Senior Shelden Williams. Does this years squad have anyone close to Shelden? No.

Such humility you're showing. It's going to serve you well, I'm sure.

1) Yes, Mason has only a half-year performance. And if he gets dramatically better over the second half of the year then we can discuss him being better than McRoberts. But assuming that he'll eventually be better than McRoberts isn't a sound argument as to why he's better than McRoberts right now.
2) McRoberts was not a great shooter. But his shooting numbers look better than Plumlee's right now. Nothing suggests Plumlee has a good jumpshot right now.
3) Not really relevant to the discussion. In fact, one could argue that Shelden limited the productivity of McRoberts, whereas Plumlee doesn't have the same roadblock. Remember - McRoberts averaged 13, 8, and 2.5 blocks as a sophomore. Williams certainly helped McRoberts's efficiency, allowing for more dunks as a freshman. But his presence also reduced McRoberts's touches (limiting his scoring) and limited his rebounds and blocks as well.

Again, Mason may very well end up better than McRoberts. But right now, it is a BIG reach to suggest he's better than McRoberts as a freshman.

-jk
01-16-2010, 10:43 AM
Gently, everyone.

thanks,

-jk

Richard Berg
01-16-2010, 12:06 PM
In terms of skillsets, I think they are very similar. Both are good ballhandlers and passers for their size (I'd say McRoberts is a bit more polished). Both are great leapers who struggle a bit with the scoring on plays other than dunks/layups. Both have shown an aptitude for rebounding and blocking shots.

Yes, Mason doesn't seem to have the attitude that McRoberts had. But in terms of skillsets they are very similar. I also wouldn't say that Mason is a much better player than McRoberts. He may very well eventually become a much better player than McRoberts, but nothing he's done to this point suggests he's even at McRoberts's level. It's all still potential with Mason.
I was going to bring up Josh, making essentially identical points. Count me in as someone who thinks Mason hasn't even reached frosh-McRoberts level yet.

If he does, great! Josh was clearly one of the most talented players we've had in years.

greybeard
01-16-2010, 12:42 PM
I was going to bring up Josh, making essentially identical points. Count me in as someone who thinks Mason hasn't even reached frosh-McRoberts level yet.

If he does, great! Josh was clearly one of the most talented players we've had in years.

He also had/has a very bad back, which Mason doesn't have, and had opportunities that Mason hasn't had. Josh was one of two bigs on a team that was beyond small; Mason is one of four real big guys, five if you count the best big of them all, Singler.

If more had been asked of Mason, I'm certain more would have been delivered. If a lot more had been asked of him, I'm reasonably certain a lot more would have been delivered.

Look forward to seeing him play; like I said, it'd be cool and not surprising if he is everything Bilas believes he is. Even if he's not, I'm certain that the more time and responsibility he gets, he'll be an ever greater kick to watch.

phaedrus
01-16-2010, 12:49 PM
Again, Mason may very well end up better than McRoberts. But right now, it is a BIG reach to suggest he's better than McRoberts as a freshman.

And McRoberts was 2nd team All-ACC as a sophomore; I think we should all be ecstatic if MP2 reaches the same level next year.

Of course, I hope MP2's last two years of eligibility far surpass McRoberts'.

Dukeford
01-16-2010, 02:00 PM
no, i don't think that was the play.....if i remember correctly, it was after a missed basked and the BC guy came down with the rebound. The teams had started to go the other way and MP2 tried to take a swipe at knocking it out of the BC player's hands, but it didn't budge.

mason wasn't trying to START anything except maybe poke the ball away for a steal....then when it didn't happen, he slapped at it again....and then AGAIN....that's when he kinda got in the BC's players face.

kyle doesn't take anyone's bs....but kyle doesn't let the emotion of the contested issue make him lose his temper......MP3 LOOKED like he was on the very edge of, shall we say, "a display of athleticism not in context of the basketball game"

The play being referred to was right after Josh Southern had blocked Mason's shot, twice, at point blank range under the basket.

So that was obviously the source of his frustration on the ensuing foul.

And also evidence that he has a lot of room for improvement.

devildownunder
01-16-2010, 03:06 PM
Look, I see Singler as the most talented player on this team. He is the best rebounder, has an ability to elongate, literally lift his shoulder girdle to reach that is uncanny, and has gotten more contested rebounds against truly great players from a dead still jump than any player I have seen.

He proved impossible in the main for any 4 to guard. Any.

Gerald was voted first team ACC but if you had to chose one last year it would have been Singler.

There is a reason that Singler was a near unanimous pre season pick for First Team All American.

So, he has a dramatic change in position, and has yet to figure out how to be really effective and comfortable in it.

Mason on the ohter hand has done none of these things. Nor has anybody else in the ACC since Kyle has been here. No one. No one has shown the ability to rebound and defend with the bigs, post with the bigs, then take them outside and kill them.

Now Mason might turn out to be the next Hansborough with a little more speed. Me, and this is only my preference, I liked Singler's game more than Hansborough's, and not because one was from UNC and one was from Duke. I think that both display a similar intensity and feel for the team game that basketball is. I thought that Hansborough was terrific around the basket, absolutely terrific, and developed an ability to shoot from decent range.

To me, Singler is less frenetic and displayed an inner joy when he was playing at his highest levels that bespoke someone who really, really was seeing as exceptionally as he was playing. When playing against a 4, he finds ways to slip and get easy looks from 3 range and knock them down, gets to the basket almost at will, and around the basket catches the ball and finishes, in any number of ways, that do not have to include dunking and more often than not don't, which I happen to see as an asset. He draws fouls in droves.

Bilas and you tell me that the muscular, somewhat undersized Mason as an inside player is going to be the next whatever his name was from Oklahoma, fine. Let's say I believe him and you, which still would not make it so.

Until the kid starts to show on this level, and he has done so only a drop, it is in my mind an irresponsible thing for a journalist to say without a shred of evidence to back it up that he has the most talent. Bilas is a new era of media journalist, a YODELER as Tony Kornheisser calls them now, himself included, who can sing any tune they like. Bilas can be great but is way over exposed and needs to find fresh things to say to keep from making himself crazy. Some of the fresh things are stupid and I think that this is one of them. That is not to say that Mason will not be great. Just that Bilas has taken yodeling to levels that even my man T wouldn't go, which is pretty freakin far.

I respectfully dissent and say that the guy with the greatest talent on this team remains Kyle Singler, going away.

First, you have stated many things here that Singler HAS DONE and say that means he has the most talent. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone here who thinks MP2 is more ACCOMPLISHED than Singler. I'm certainly not saying that. Neither is Bilas (check his comments, he takes pains to clarify this). It makes no sense to say MP2 can't be more talented because Singler has accomplished more. Being talented and being accomplished are two completely different things.

Second, your introduction of tyler H. is a classic strawman. The apt comparison is between Mason's talent, which I equate w/his potential for purposes of this conversation, and Singler's. If you want to compare Singler to Hans' that's fine but that's not what we're discussing here.

Third, I think you do Bilas a disservice when you say his claims are "without a shred of evidence". He's an insider at Duke's program and I there is a better than fair chance that he has seen things in person or heard things from the staff to give him these beliefs. Considering that he's a former coach and player, I'd say that scenario is far more likely than the idea that he's pulling this out of thin air.

Mason Plumlee has the size and strength to play down low against big guys and develop into a real force at the 4 and 5. He can also grab a rebound and go the length of the floor w/it to finish or make a pass for the finish. To me, that gives him the potential to become a dominating inside player and still be dynamic enough to handle the ball and play facing the basket, too. He is the only player on the team who I think has the chance to be that kind of player. Of course, we all can want to see things in players and get carried away with our favorites. That's why I'm glad to hear that an insider like Bilas feels the way I do. It suggests to me that I'm not just seeing things. Of course, time will tell.

gwwilburn
01-16-2010, 04:48 PM
Wrong. There are not similar players at all. Mason actually HAS a jumpshot. Mason has a superior attitude to Josh from what I can see also. Mason is a much better player than Josh.
Josh was a talented, heralded player, but he kind of reminded be of Nuke LaLoosh: really hotheaded, sort of self-centered, and extremely gifted but unwilling to really add anything to his game. I guess Josh never found his Crash Davis. Mason doesn't seem to have any of these traits in my mind. And remember, we have only seen him for a month and a half, and probably three or four weeks fully healthy.

hq2
01-16-2010, 07:36 PM
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that Mason is right now any better than McBobs was as a freshman. Both were good leapers, and neither is a great shooter. And McBobs was not really that bad a player. He was arguably the best player on the team his sophomore year, and in fact, if you examine his two year statistics, they were quite similar to Danny Ferry's (although maybe a little lower). McBobs real problem was attitude, which was lousy, and the fact that he just couldn't handle the burden of expectations placed on him, especially his sophomore year. Mason has the advantage of having plenty of other bigs to help him now, and will still have his brother next year. That, coupled with what appears to be a better attitude, will mean that he can develop further than McBobs ever did. But, that's for a couple of years from now. If he can be as good as McBobs was as a freshman, I'd be happy with it.

1999ballboy
01-17-2010, 12:33 AM
Wrong. There are not similar players at all. Mason actually HAS a jumpshot. Mason has a superior attitude to Josh from what I can see also. Mason is a much better player than Josh.

Did you just pounce on my tangential McRoberts comparison while ignoring the rest of my post? Not only are you wrong (except about the attitude), but you missed the part where I admitted that Bilas might be right. I was making a point that Mason's improvement is not guaranteed, as Bilas often seems to act like it is. I still think it is probable that Mason Plumlee will improve greatly following his freshman year. That's what has happened to many of Duke's big men including Shelden Williams and Miles Plumlee. McRoberts never seemed to get any better, but he was the exception. Bilas is right to see this potential in Mason, but would be wrong to completely dismiss the possibility that he doesn't improve that much. I'm glad you like Mason though. I do too. I'm optimistic, but I'm not about to jump the gun. Let's wait and see if he's our best player. I'll give Jay Bilas all his props when and if that day comes.