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OZZIE4DUKE
05-06-2007, 03:18 PM
Roger Clemens is back with the Yankees. He signed a minor league contract so he can get himself into game shape. Very dramatic in-game announcement by Roger himself during the 7th inning stretch at the Stadium today - I can't wait to see it on Sports Center.

Equally important, the Yankees won their 2nd straight game with a strong pitching effort by their starting pitcher.

Look out Boston - that team making noise over your shoulder is the Yankees and here they come!

Chicago 1995
05-06-2007, 04:38 PM
Yankees needed him bad enough to give him whatever he wanted.

Roger gets to be the center of attention. Perfect fit.

Still, the Yankees starting rotation is more wing and a prayer than not.

Moose, Pettite and Clemens are all old enough and the first two at least are creaky enough that I don't know you can count on them. Hughes hasn't pitched more than what, 140 innings before, and Wang's coming off a leg injury and there has to be some question if he can continue to outpitch his perpherals.

And the cumulative effect of Torre's bullpen use won't go away either.

They'll be around. They're not a 4th place team, and they're not going to roll over for the Red Sox.

But the Sox aren't exactly going to roll over either. Better starting rotation. Better bullpen. And a 5.5 game lead . . . Not exactly a bad place to be in. :)

OZZIE4DUKE
05-06-2007, 06:36 PM
But the Sox aren't exactly going to roll over either. Better starting rotation. Better bullpen. And a 5.5 game lead . . . Not exactly a bad place to be in. :)

Roll over? No. But a 5.5 game lead is like having a 15 point lead 10 minutes into a college basketball game - it doesn't mean much, although one would rather be ahead than behind.

BTW, Roger's contract is for $28,000,000, prorated for the portion of the season he'll play. If the numbers don't deceive me, I believe Roger is not the highest paid player in the game and not ARod (at $25MM per). Don't think that will take any pressure off of Alex though. And Alex hasn't hit any home runs since his 14th about 10 days ago.

bluebear
05-06-2007, 08:27 PM
well.. as a sox fan it does pain me to have him sign with the Yanks, especially doing it so dramatically..but 28 million prorated is a lot of money to pay for a nearly 45 yo pitcher (so is the 18-20 that the sox reportedly offered)..seems a bit knee jerk but there are not a lot of quality starters out there. I suspect this will have an emotional impact on the Yanks but May could still be a long month unless their starters pitch like they have this weekend..I still like the Sox pitching staff better but this closes the gap..

Clemens was beginning to be embraced again up here in Boston, but I suspect he will now be public enemy number 1...

Rogggggerrrr....Rogggerrrr....

Go Sox!!!

JasonEvans
05-07-2007, 09:26 AM
Was there ever a question as to who he would sign with?

The Astros stink and even with the Rocket he was not going to make the playoffs. He is not coming back to be the best pitcher on a sub-.500 ballclub.

The RedSox have amazing starting pitching. The way Wakefield and Beckett are throwing, he'd be the 3rd, 4th, or even perhaps the 5th starter. I cannot fathom why Boston would have paid big bucks for him anyway. Better to use that $15+ million elsewhere. The only reason for Boston to sign him would be to keep him out of NY.

The Yankees were desperate for him. He can be the savior. It was a no-brainer for him.

-Jason "I still don't think the Yankees will catch the BoSox" Evans

Mal
05-07-2007, 09:35 AM
Exhibit 4,398,274 in the case of Why The Rest of The World Hates The New York Yankees. Even when they make their own bed, they just go pay to sleep in another. I hope this fails miserably.

Don't you Yankees fans feel like you need a shower after a stunt like this? If nothing else, it sullies the regal reputation of the franchise to act so desperately.

I think the idea of signing a series of 1 year contracts to play half a season every year is a terrible affront to something. I just haven't formulated the thought yet. Dignity, perhaps? The "team" ideal? The idea that it's an unfair physical advantage to only have to play half the season?

Is this a good precedent to be setting? In two years, will Bonds start signing 45-day contracts with AL penant contenders every August 15?

Bostondevil
05-07-2007, 09:41 AM
If you do the math, it works out to a little less than $1 million a start. Think he'll travel with the team? Be a good clubhouse guy? I'm just saying.

Personally, I didn't want him to come to the Sox. I know we all hear about how hard he works in the off-season (retirement?) but the guy is almost 45 years old. If he's your go-to guy, well, I don't think of him as particularly clutch. Good luck Yankees, I still think you're going to need it.

Olympic Fan
05-07-2007, 12:04 PM
Just as it was wa-a-a-y too early to starting talking about the Yankees' demise a week ago, it's too early this week -- after a 5-1 week and adding Clemens -- to talk about a revival.

As for the Clemens signing -- everybody except Boston fans have every right to rip on the Yankee profligate spending. As for Boston, how much did that Japanese guy with the 5.50 ERA end up costing you? Even Bill Simmons, the Boston Sports Guy, admits that the Red Sox have BECOME the Yankees when it comes to throwing money at their problems.

Yankee-hating aside, I'd say the potential of the Yankee rotation looks a heck of a lot better than it did 10 days ago.

(1) Wang is back from his injury and pitching like he did last year when he won 19 games. He's the one proven young stud in the rotation.

(2) Mussina is back in the rotation and looking like his old self. He may be old, but he's coming off one of his best seasons and should be solid.

(3) Pettite remains a constant. He's no longer a top-of-the-rotation pitcher, but I still feel very comfortable with his experience in the rotation.

Well, that's three-fifths of a rotation, anyway. Clemens (remember, the guy had a 2.30 ERA last season in Houston) should be a solid six-inning pitcher. That's number four.

I'd like to think that Phil Hughes will be No. 5. The Yankees have used a lot of young starters this month with mixed results -- Darrell Rasner is coming off a shutout start against Seattle ... Igawa had a strong game in NY's one win over the Red Sox (then got bombed by the Mariners).

But Hughes has long been touted as the jewel of the Yankee farm system -- the first great prospect that the Yankees haven't dealt away for a lefthanded DH (George Costanza: "Why ... why ... would you trade Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps ... You don't know what you're doing!). Hughes got to show a little of his potential with six-plus innings of no-hit ball before he was hurt. He should be back in mid-to-late June.

By then, the Yankee rotation ought to match up very well with the Red Sox -- Beckett is pitching out his mind and Schilling is excellent, but Wakefield is just a solid middle-of-the-rotation pitcher and Dice-K is a major disappointment.

If the Yankees starting pitching improves, then the bullpen improves simply because of the reduced work load.

Who knows, maybe one of the three Yankee veteran starters will break down. Maybe Schilling (who's older than Mussina or Pettite) will break down. Maybe Dice-K will solve his problems and be worth his cost ... or maybe the AL batters will continue to light him up. Maybe Carl Pavano will bounce back from his arm injury (okay, I'm reaching with that one).

I'm just saying, don't count the Yankees out -- 5.5 games with 120 to play is hardly an insurmountable hurdle. I'm not giving them the title either ... I' just doing the same thing I did last week -- pleading for patience. Baseball is a long season and almost every team goes through ups and downs.

wiscodevil
05-07-2007, 12:28 PM
-Jason "I still don't think the Yankees will catch the BoSox" Evans

they don't need to. they only need to win the wild card.

wiscodevil
05-07-2007, 12:30 PM
Exhibit 4,398,274 in the case of Why The Rest of The World Hates The New York Yankees. Even when they make their own bed, they just go pay to sleep in another. I hope this fails miserably.

Don't you Yankees fans feel like you need a shower after a stunt like this? If nothing else, it sullies the regal reputation of the franchise to act so desperately.

I think the idea of signing a series of 1 year contracts to play half a season every year is a terrible affront to something. I just haven't formulated the thought yet. Dignity, perhaps? The "team" ideal? The idea that it's an unfair physical advantage to only have to play half the season?

Is this a good precedent to be setting? In two years, will Bonds start signing 45-day contracts with AL penant contenders every August 15?

i am not a huge clemens fan, nor do i like the idea of the "hired gun". that said the yanks are only different than other teams b/c of the depths of the pockets. or wthe willingness to go to those depths. they're no more evil than any other team.

posada, jeter, rivera, cano, wang, cabrera, hughes are all likeable enough.

Nittany Devil
05-07-2007, 12:32 PM
First of all, I don't think that the gap between Boston and New York is that great right now. I look at the standings, and I see that Boston has outscored their opponents by 45 runs total, and New York has outscored their opponents by 27 runs total. With that fairly small difference in run differential I expect the race to tighten up without the Clemens factor, especially when you consider the injuries that New York has dealt with.

With that said, I really don't expect Clemens to put up the kind of numbers that he put up in Houston. Yankees fans have seen a number of recent acquisitions who put up significantly worse numbers with the Yankees than in the National League (Javier Vazquez, Randy Johnson, Jaret Wright, and some relievers). At the same time, several pitchers have gone on to the National League from the Yankees and put up better numbers (Clemens is a prime example, also Esteban Loaiza was much better with Washington and Pettitte had his best season with Houston). As a Yankees fan, I'd be happy if Clemens could win a few more than he loses and keep his ERA in the mid-3's. I don't think we can expect more than that.

wiscodevil
05-07-2007, 12:33 PM
Just as it was wa-a-a-y too early to starting talking about the Yankees' demise a week ago, it's too early this week -- after a 5-1 week and adding Clemens -- to talk about a revival.

As for the Clemens signing -- everybody except Boston fans have every right to rip on the Yankee profligate spending. As for Boston, how much did that Japanese guy with the 5.50 ERA end up costing you? Even Bill Simmons, the Boston Sports Guy, admits that the Red Sox have BECOME the Yankees when it comes to throwing money at their problems.

Yankee-hating aside, I'd say the potential of the Yankee rotation looks a heck of a lot better than it did 10 days ago.

(1) Wang is back from his injury and pitching like he did last year when he won 19 games. He's the one proven young stud in the rotation.

(2) Mussina is back in the rotation and looking like his old self. He may be old, but he's coming off one of his best seasons and should be solid.

(3) Pettite remains a constant. He's no longer a top-of-the-rotation pitcher, but I still feel very comfortable with his experience in the rotation.

Well, that's three-fifths of a rotation, anyway. Clemens (remember, the guy had a 2.30 ERA last season in Houston) should be a solid six-inning pitcher. That's number four.

I'd like to think that Phil Hughes will be No. 5. The Yankees have used a lot of young starters this month with mixed results -- Darrell Rasner is coming off a shutout start against Seattle ... Igawa had a strong game in NY's one win over the Red Sox (then got bombed by the Mariners).

But Hughes has long been touted as the jewel of the Yankee farm system -- the first great prospect that the Yankees haven't dealt away for a lefthanded DH (George Costanza: "Why ... why ... would you trade Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps ... You don't know what you're doing!). Hughes got to show a little of his potential with six-plus innings of no-hit ball before he was hurt. He should be back in mid-to-late June.

By then, the Yankee rotation ought to match up very well with the Red Sox -- Beckett is pitching out his mind and Schilling is excellent, but Wakefield is just a solid middle-of-the-rotation pitcher and Dice-K is a major disappointment.

If the Yankees starting pitching improves, then the bullpen improves simply because of the reduced work load.

Who knows, maybe one of the three Yankee veteran starters will break down. Maybe Schilling (who's older than Mussina or Pettite) will break down. Maybe Dice-K will solve his problems and be worth his cost ... or maybe the AL batters will continue to light him up. Maybe Carl Pavano will bounce back from his arm injury (okay, I'm reaching with that one).

I'm just saying, don't count the Yankees out -- 5.5 games with 120 to play is hardly an insurmountable hurdle. I'm not giving them the title either ... I' just doing the same thing I did last week -- pleading for patience. Baseball is a long season and almost every team goes through ups and downs.

very well said indeed.

i for one, think dice k is going to improve dramatically in the next month or so.

bluebear
05-07-2007, 12:56 PM
i for one, think dice k is going to improve dramatically in the next month or so.

I agree with that...

Jon Lester will also be returning to the Sox rotation by June..a higher ranked prospect than Papelbon with a lot of potential...

I'm more than happy with a pitching staff that includes 3 solid starters (Beckett, Dice-K, and Lester) and a top closer all under the age of 27...

tombrady
05-07-2007, 01:36 PM
very well said indeed.

i for one, think dice k is going to improve dramatically in the next month or so.

Actually, very poorly said. See my rebuttal below. Just wanted to include you in on it.

tombrady
05-07-2007, 01:47 PM
As a Yankees fan, I'd be happy if Clemens could win a few more than he loses and keep his ERA in the mid-3's. I don't think we can expect more than that.

Clemens ERAs last time with NYY:

1999 4.60
2000 3.70
2001 3.51
2002 4.35
2003 3.91

Keep in mind this was 4-8 years ago. So you're hoping he keeps his ERA in the "Mid-3s", something he accomplished only once in his time with the yankees in the AL east before? When he was much younger? Good luck with that -- the offenses in the AL east this year are ridiculous.

Runs Scored (ALL MLB)
1. NYY
9. TOR
10. BOS
13. TB
16. BAL


The entire division is in the top-half of baseball in terms of run scoring. the 5 are also all in the top 16 for OPS (on base + slugging). Any way you cut it, the AL east has great offenses. Not to mention Clemens averaged 6 innings/start last season, in the weaker national league. Thats the last thing the yankees need -- another starter demanding 3 innings out of their bullpen every game. He's not gonna be a horse for them, by any means -- he should enjoy innings 7-9 every game, as the bullpen blows a solid number of games and/or allows his inherited runners to score.

Nittany Devil
05-07-2007, 02:24 PM
Clemens ERAs last time with NYY:

1999 4.60
2000 3.70
2001 3.51
2002 4.35
2003 3.91

Keep in mind this was 4-8 years ago. So you're hoping he keeps his ERA in the "Mid-3s", something he accomplished only once in his time with the yankees in the AL east before? When he was much younger? Good luck with that -- the offenses in the AL east this year are ridiculous.

Well, he was good enough to post ERAs of 2.98, 1.87, and 2.30 more recently with Houston. I've already admitted that I don't expect such numbers to translate to the AL East, but I don't think that his ERA necessarily will jump more than 1.5 runs per game. Perhaps he just didn't pitch as well in his last stint with New York as he has pitched recently. Anyhow, I'd be happy if he had an ERA like he had in 2001 or even 2000 or 2003, but I wouldn't be shocked if it winds up higher. I'm just saying what I'd be happy with.

tombrady
05-07-2007, 02:46 PM
I don't even know where to start here. I'll give it a shot.


"As for the Clemens signing -- everybody except Boston fans have every right to rip on the Yankee profligate spending. As for Boston, how much did that Japanese guy with the 5.50 ERA end up costing you? Even Bill Simmons, the Boston Sports Guy, admits that the Red Sox have BECOME the Yankees when it comes to throwing money at their problems.

Top-10 2007 MLB Payrolls. This was before the Clemens signing. Plan to add about 20 Million to the yankees' payroll -- this won't even take into account the extra $7 million in luxury tax they are paying for just him.

1 Yankees $195,229,045 --> $215,229,045
2 Red Sox $143,526,214
3 Mets $117,915,819
4 White Sox $109,680,167
5 Angels $109,251,333
6 Dodgers $108,704,524
7 Mariners $106,516,833
8 Cubs $99,937,000
9 Tigers $95,180,369
10 Orioles $95,107,807

Complain all you want about the red sox, mets, white sox, angels, dodgers, or mariners spending, but you can see the yankees are still miles ahead of everyone else. all everyone else is trying to do is keep up. the yankees are still setting the spending curve. as such, they (and they alone) are the ones people complain about. Last year, the red sox wanted to get Abreu, but would have had to give up 2 prime prospects, which they didn't do because they need them for the future. The yankees, on the other hand, didn't give up any decent prospects because they could simply pay cash instead (by taking on the full salary). They were the only team in baseball that could do this. The red sox are a far cry from the yankees in terms of finances. The red sox make decisions with a limited budget and must plan for the future. The yankees do not.


that Japanese guy

first of all, real classy. you obviously know his name, its been everywhere. Matsuzaka. not even really hard, even for "some Japanese guy." whats next, you refer to our first basemen Youkilis as "that jewish guy"?


If you think that Bill Simmons represents how the average fan views their Boston sports, you are completely incorrect. He's a columnist, and gets paid for his views. If he wrote the bland, silent majority opinion, no one would read it. take a controversial stand (The red sox have become the yankees!), and he creates a bit of a stir from people like yourself. mission accomplished.

while i'm at it, might as well go ahead and disprove every single point you make. its pretty easy, really.


(1) Wang is back from his injury and pitching like he did last year when he won 19 games. He's the one proven young stud in the rotation.

Last year: 19-6, 3.63 ERA
This year: 1-2, 3.98 ERA


(2) Mussina is back in the rotation and looking like his old self. He may be old, but he's coming off one of his best seasons and should be solid.

"old self" -- career era: 3.64
2007 -- 5.73 ERA.

Oh, and I'd say the following seasons for him were better than last year:
1992
1994
1995
1997
1998
1999
2001
2003

so by "one of his best seasons," you must have meant "one of his average seasons."


(3) Pettite remains a constant. He's no longer a top-of-the-rotation pitcher, but I still feel very comfortable with his experience in the rotation.

Yeah, a constantly mediocre pitcher. If you like his 4.20 ERA last year in the NL, you'll love it by the end of this year in the AL East! Plus, those 6 innings per start he's averaged so far are really gonna do wonders for the all ready overworked bullpen. I know I don't need to remind you that Rivera no longer automatically takes an inning off the back end of ballgames.

This basically says you know he sucks, but he's from those 1990's teams that won some WS rings, so he'll probably still be good now. Might as well bring back Scott Brosius and Tino Martinez!


He should be back in mid-to-late June.

By then, the Yankee rotation ought to match up very well with the Red Sox

Its May 7th. Mid-to-late June is like 40 games from now. Given the red sox have a 5.5 game lead after 30 games, and the yankees won't get Clemens or Hughes until the first week in june at the very earliest, you aren't at all concerned about the games in between when you'll continue to throw out no-name 4th and 5th starters? if the lead continues to grow, being 10 games out by mid june won't be too fun. playing catchup with a 20 year old and a 45 year old is no recipe for success . So say the rotation does "match up very well." You still have to make up the games you're all ready behind (5.5), plus any additional games lost by your AA callups.


but Wakefield is just a solid middle-of-the-rotation pitcher and Dice-K is a major disappointment.

If the Yankees starting pitching improves, then the bullpen improves simply because of the reduced work load.

Wakefield: 2.11 ERA, 2nd in the AL. he may be slotted middle of the rotation, but he is pitching way better than that this year (and its no longer "early" -- we're 1/5th of the way through the season).

Dice-K. Game log:
IP R
7.0 1
7.0 3
6.0 2
7.0 6
6.0 4
5.0 7

First 3 starts: Outstanding for a rookie (or anyone really). Last 3 starts -- 1 a bit iffy, 1 poor outing, and 1 disaster. He's shown he's got the goods, but he's had control problems which have led to his runs the last few games. But of course -- he's adjusting to an entirely new league -- one with new umpires (and thus strike zone definition) and new sized baseballs (bet you didn't know that). Hits the last 3 games -- 8, 5, 5. Its not like he's getting destroyed by any means. Give him a few more starts to get a full grasp of the American game and how it is called, and he'll cut down on the walks. Its really all he needs to do. He's certainly not getting "Lit up," as you claim.


You really don't understand this Yankees starting pitching thing -- even with Hughes (pitch count, 20 years old, don't want to destroy him) and Clemens (45 years old, averaged 6 IP last year in the NL), the bullpen will still have a ridiculous work load. allowing 2 earned runs in 6 innings is great and all, but not when your bullpen has to struggle through 3 more innings. every night.

tombrady
05-07-2007, 02:50 PM
Well, he was good enough to post ERAs of 2.98, 1.87, and 2.30 more recently with Houston. I've already admitted that I don't expect such numbers to translate to the AL East, but I don't think that his ERA necessarily will jump more than 1.5 runs per game. Perhaps he just didn't pitch as well in his last stint with New York as he has pitched recently. Anyhow, I'd be happy if he had an ERA like he had in 2001 or even 2000 or 2003, but I wouldn't be shocked if it winds up higher. I'm just saying what I'd be happy with.

Irrelevant. Those low numbers are in the NL, when he didn't have to pitch a full season. The NL is terrible compared the AL -- last year, the AL went 154-98 against the NL. Thats 56 games over .500 (!). Thinking he's gonna have a better (or equal) ERA than his last time around, when he's 5 years older, is simply false hope. I really think NY fans will be disappointed by Clemens this year.

Bostondevil
05-07-2007, 04:02 PM
Sadly for all the Braves fans around here, discussion of Clemens has led to a Yankees - Red Sox comparison. Doesn't all baseball talk usually lead to a Yankees - Red Sox comparison. Much as I love my Sox (tickets for Sunday behind the dugout!) I do realize that there are 3 other teams in the AL East alone. Matching up with the Sox might not even be the Yankees ultimate problem! I'm still betting on the Sox taking the division this year, Clemens or no, but I'm willing to admit that it's not just the Yankees they will have to beat. My son is reading over my shoulder and he says especially Tampa Bay. (Not sure if I agree but he's a fanatic in the best sense of the word.)

Wakefield with this kind of ERA in the cold weather though should scare everybody. Oh, I'm imagining that knuckler on a humid day in July. AAAHHH! I love me some Wake.

Mal
05-07-2007, 04:29 PM
dbb03, couple responses:

1. I never called the Yankees evil. I said that fans of other teams hate them. I don't think they're evil, I just resent to no end that when they screw up their pitching staff by going out and paying top dollar for Kyle Farnsworth, and thinking that Wang's anomolous W-L last year is going to hold up this season, and that Mussina and Petitte and some rookies are going to otherwise carry them, they can just go out and drop $15 million more on Clemens. And if that doesn't work, they can go trade some guys and get someone else before the deadline, and then sign more free agents to cover for the prospects they just traded after the season's over. Because of the endless willingness of Steinbrenner to spend, they consistently paper over the trail of the dead they leave behind. If my team makes a big contract mistake or relies too much on old guys who go get hurt, their season is shot and they have to live with it unless they can patch holes with their minor league callups.

2. Re: the Wild Card issue, the Yankees are only one less game out of the Wild Card lead right now than they are the AL East. It's all meaningless at this early point in the season, but just to get some defense of the AL Central in here, let's recall where 3 of the 5 best teams in the AL resided last year and note that none of the 3 of them are currently leading the division this season. Just because the East has traditionally owned the Wild Card doesn't mean it's going back there just yet.

tombrady, I realize your hackles are up already (based on the 5 consecutive posts!), but I have a couple countervailing thoughts to add to my general agreement with you that adding Clemens will be less of a magic pill than the Yankees think:

1. It's true that the AL East has a bunch of the dynamic offenses, but (a) comparing them to all of MLB is inherently biased based on the DH (that said, they're all in the top 9 offenses in the AL, so the point remains), and (b) it also has but 1 of the top 7 teams in the AL in ERA. Clemens will be pitching against subpar starters in AL East matchups, except when he's facing Halladay or Boston. 4.5 runs against might just get it done more often than not against Baltimore, Tampa Bay and most of Toronto.

That said, I agree with you that his decline has probably looked so slow because it was obscured by the worthless offenses of the NL for the last number of years. Other than possibly the Mets, there is simply no analogue in the National League for the offenses of Cleveland, Detroit and Boston, and probably others.

2. You kind of undercut your ability to call olympicfan on condescension when you throw out the assumption that he didn't realize Japanese league balls are different than MLB's. Even casual fans who've been hit over the head with DiceMania have been made aware of that.

3. If you think Daisuke will make adjustments after a couple more starts, you should also assume that the league's hitters, with more and more tape to watch, will adjust as well. True that he hasn't been getting lit up, but he also has shown less ability to get out of jams than we all thought he would, and other than the first start against a minor league lineup, he hasn't generally been blowing guys away as much as we had all been led to expect. His WHIP is 1.32, and his two worst outings from a control standpoint were his 5th and 6th, not 1st and 2nd. He could still become a phenom, but I think some credit has to be given to the hitters in MLB. They figure guys out.

Olympic Fan
05-07-2007, 07:10 PM
Whoa, Tom Brady ... sorry to be such a burr under your saddle. Then again, I can understand how sensitive you'd be when your namesake turns out to be a closet Yankee fan:

http://thetrack.bostonherald.com/moreTrack/view.bg?articleid=198248

Points out how phony the spin control story was (that he was wearing the Yankee hat to disguise himself because a Yankee hit would be less conspicuous in New York). It turns out he was spotting outside a Boston donut shot two years ago wearing a Yankee hat.

I can imagine that would tick me off too!

I never realized I was such a master of invective ... imagine, coming up with such a vicious insult as "that Japanese guy" ... If I was really trying, I might have called him "That $52 million bust" But if it makes you feel any better, you can call Chein-Ming Wang, "that Taiwanese guy"

BTW, when you were comparing the salary structures of the Yankees and Red Sox, you kind of left out the $51.1 million the Red Sox paid for the privilege of wasting $52 million on "that stinking load of day-old sushi" (is that less insulting than "that Japanese guy")

So, instead of the current $195 million to $143 million payroll, the real figure is $195 million for the Yankees to $194 million for the Red Sox. Before you get all huffy ... I know that's not really comparing payroll because the acquistion cost of signing Dice-BB is not salary. I just pointed it out to explain why the free-spending Red Sox have little right to criticize the free-spending Yankees ... there's little difference between the two. Now if the A's or the Royals want to take a shot, fire away.

As for the lengths you go "disprove" every point I made ... thanks for the laugh. I mean, just take the Wang reference ... I suggest Wang is back from injury and pitching like he did last year ... and your response is:

Last year: 19-6, 3.63 ERA
This year: 1-2, 3.98 ERA

Well, as I said, Ming was returning from an injury that forced him to miss the first three weeks of the season ... In his first two starts, he gave up four earned runs in approximately six innings of work each time out ... in his last start, he gave up one run (and one hit) in eight innings of work. Now, I know that's one great start, but at least he seems to be heading in the right direction, as opposed to the guy who the Red Sox pissed that $103 million away on, who seems to be getting worse (let's see in consecutive starts he gave up 1-3-2-6-4-7 runs ... without going past seven innings in any start).

Anyway, enjoy the rest of the season. Maybe the Red Sox can finish with a better record than the Yankees for the first time since 1995. Or maybe not.

bluebear
05-07-2007, 08:08 PM
Whoa, Tom Brady ... sorry to be such a burr under your saddle. Then again, I can understand how sensitive you'd be when your namesake turns out to be a closet Yankee fan:

http://thetrack.bostonherald.com/moreTrack/view.bg?articleid=198248

Points out how phony the spin control story was (that he was wearing the Yankee hat to disguise himself because a Yankee hit would be less conspicuous in New York). It turns out he was spotting outside a Boston donut shot two years ago wearing a Yankee hat.

I can imagine that would tick me off too!

I never realized I was such a master of invective ... imagine, coming up with such a vicious insult as "that Japanese guy" ... If I was really trying, I might have called him "That $52 million bust" But if it makes you feel any better, you can call Chein-Ming Wang, "that Taiwanese guy"

BTW, when you were comparing the salary structures of the Yankees and Red Sox, you kind of left out the $51.1 million the Red Sox paid for the privilege of wasting $52 million on "that stinking load of day-old sushi" (is that less insulting than "that Japanese guy")

So, instead of the current $195 million to $143 million payroll, the real figure is $195 million for the Yankees to $194 million for the Red Sox. Before you get all huffy ... I know that's not really comparing payroll because the acquistion cost of signing Dice-BB is not salary. I just pointed it out to explain why the free-spending Red Sox have little right to criticize the free-spending Yankees ... there's little difference between the two. Now if the A's or the Royals want to take a shot, fire away.

As for the lengths you go "disprove" every point I made ... thanks for the laugh. I mean, just take the Wang reference ... I suggest Wang is back from injury and pitching like he did last year ... and your response is:

Last year: 19-6, 3.63 ERA
This year: 1-2, 3.98 ERA

Well, as I said, Ming was returning from an injury that forced him to miss the first three weeks of the season ... In his first two starts, he gave up four earned runs in approximately six innings of work each time out ... in his last start, he gave up one run (and one hit) in eight innings of work. Now, I know that's one great start, but at least he seems to be heading in the right direction, as opposed to the guy who the Red Sox pissed that $103 million away on, who seems to be getting worse (let's see in consecutive starts he gave up 1-3-2-6-4-7 runs ... without going past seven innings in any start).

Anyway, enjoy the rest of the season. Maybe the Red Sox can finish with a better record than the Yankees for the first time since 1995. Or maybe not.

Not sure it was necessary to antagonize other sox fanswho were having a more rational debate on this topic...

As for your points...I think it is a bit early to be talking even hyperbolically about Dice-K being a bust..a 26 year old pitcher adjusting to a new league...Most people in Boston were hoping for a 12-15 win year from him which is well within reach..

As for payroll, not sure you included Clemens or the money that the Yanks sunk into signing Igawa which again widens the gap..The fact is that there are at least 3 tiers of teams in MLB...the Yankees are in their own class, followed by the Sox, Mets, and a few others..followed by the rest of the league. I don't play the pauper when it comes to the Sox but i also know they can't go out and spend at the same rate as the Yankees..The Yanks will always outbid and can always outbid the sox (unless we are talking about a blind bidding process as with Dice-K)..Who was the last player that the Sox outbid the Yankees on?

Wang is the ace the Yankee staff..it's the other 4 starters that they have to worrry about...

As for Brady..he can wear whatever hat he wants as long as he keeps leading the Pats to the superbowl..

Chicago 1995
05-07-2007, 11:48 PM
BTW, when you were comparing the salary structures of the Yankees and Red Sox, you kind of left out the $51.1 million the Red Sox paid for the privilege of wasting $52 million on "that stinking load of day-old sushi" (is that less insulting than "that Japanese guy")

And how is the $46M+ you spent on Kei Igawa working out?

It's pretty impressive that not only do the Yankees have the highest and second highest paid players in MLB, Igawa's the highest paid player in Class A ball now too.

Just wondering how you can, out of one side of your mouth call Dice-K a bust after six starts, and yet, with an equal or smaller sample size, declare everything glorious with Pettite, Wang and Mussina? Objectivity never has been a Yankee strong suit.


Now, I know that's one great start, but at least he seems to be heading in the right direction, as opposed to the guy who the Red Sox pissed that $103 million away on, who seems to be getting worse (let's see in consecutive starts he gave up 1-3-2-6-4-7 runs ... without going past seven innings in any start).

Not sure why Dice-K bothers you so darn much, but if you want to talk about pissing money away, how about Kei Igawa, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright? Takes pissing money away to know it, I guess.

I also find it interesting that you are bothered by Dice K not going past seven innings in any of his starts. The Yankees, by my count, have had one starter go past seven innings the whole darn year. One. And if Dice-Ks IP are a problem, then you've got to admit that getting a guy who was a six inning pitcher in the worst division in baseball might be a problem for your already overworked bullpen too.

I get that you are a Yankee fan, but a touch of objectivity might make your analysis a bit more credible, you know?


Anyway, enjoy the rest of the season. Maybe the Red Sox can finish with a better record than the Yankees for the first time since 1995. Or maybe not.

That this is all you have to cling to should tell you how far your blessed Yankees have fallen, Oly.

2004.

I don't think anyone gives a d*mn that we were the Wild Card in 2004.

Didn't seem to matter in the ALCS or the World Series.

gus
05-08-2007, 03:29 AM
Irrelevant. Those low numbers are in the NL, when he didn't have to pitch a full season. The NL is terrible compared the AL -- last year, the AL went 154-98 against the NL. Thats 56 games over .500 (!).

Isn't that 28 games over .500?

gus
05-08-2007, 03:43 AM
That this is all you have to cling to should tell you how far your blessed Yankees have fallen, Oly.

2004.


I wonder if my grandkids will be chanting that number?

While this season looks like a rebuilding year, I think few Yankees fans would trade 3 championships in 10 years for Boston's 3 in 90.

Bostondevil
05-08-2007, 05:42 AM
I think few Yankees fans would trade 3 championships in 10 years for Boston's 3 in 90.

This Red Sox fan wouldn't trade 2004 for anything. Talk about perfection. And yes, I do think the wait made it that much more (insert adjective of your choice). The night a lunar eclipse turned the moon red, I took all my kids out to see it during the 7th inning stretch, ended with a Red Sox championship.

Of course, I'm the one who had a baby for the Boston Red Sox. When my husband talked me into a 4th kid (all boys), I agreed under one condition, it had to be an October baby. I figured if I didn't get a girl, maybe I'd get a Red Sox good luck charm. True story and the baby was born 10/22/04, that's the off day between beating the Yankees and starting on the Cardinals. And for those of you who have read some of my recent posts, yes, it's the same kid. In my darker moments I think it's my fault and he absorbed some of the Red Sox bad luck.

And in the 'Is this irony?' category, I remember the exact day I became a Red Sox fan, April 29, 1986. Anybody know what happened that day? I hadn't even moved to Boston yet but it caught my attention and I've been a Sox fan ever since.

bluebear
05-08-2007, 07:46 AM
And in the 'Is this irony?' category, I remember the exact day I became a Red Sox fan, April 29, 1986. Anybody know what happened that day? I hadn't even moved to Boston yet but it caught my attention and I've been a Sox fan ever since.

Let's hope there is no repeat of that night this year..unless it's by someone named Schilling, Dice-k, or Beckett)...;)

feldspar
05-08-2007, 09:00 AM
As for the Clemens signing -- everybody except Boston fans have every right to rip on the Yankee profligate spending. As for Boston, how much did that Japanese guy with the 5.50 ERA end up costing you? Even Bill Simmons, the Boston Sports Guy, admits that the Red Sox have BECOME the Yankees when it comes to throwing money at their problems.



You know, I've just never understood this argument, and frankly, it's starting to bother me.

If the Yankees have the money, why SHOULDN'T they spend it on improving their team?

What you're insinuating is like saying that Duke shouldn't be allowed to send Coach K on recruiting trips and to recruiting targets' houses because he is too popular and iconic of a basketaball coach. It's preposterous.

Until MLB adopts a salary cap, which they won't, this flacid "the Yankees keep throwing money at their problems" argument is just what I said - flacid as a wet, limp noodle.

CMS2478
05-08-2007, 09:05 AM
You know, I've just never understood this argument, and frankly, it's starting to bother me.

If the Yankees have the money, why SHOULDN'T they spend it on improving their team?

What you're insinuating is like saying that Duke shouldn't be allowed to send Coach K on recruiting trips and to recruiting targets' houses because he is too popular and iconic of a basketaball coach. It's preposterous.

Until MLB adopts a salary cap, which they won't, this flacid "the Yankees keep throwing money at their problems" argument is just what I said - flacid as a wet, limp noodle.

Sadly, I have to agree with you here bc I hate the Yankees too. But you make a good point. Which is why the comparison of the Yankees to Duke is so accurate. The hate for these two teams really derives from jealousy of what others want and can't have.

JasonEvans
05-08-2007, 09:19 AM
Can I jsut chime in and say that both of your teams suck!!! Baseball is the only sport where a few teams can spend so much more than everyone else that the playing field is just unfair. When you are the BoSox, Yankees, and Mets with payrolls that are 20%+ higher than virtually every other team in the game you do not have to worry about losing your stars to free agency, you get to pluck stars from other teams when htey are about to be freee agents, you get to bid outrageous amounts on pros from Asia and Cuba and elsewhere so other teams have no chance at them.

How is any of this fair?

The luxury tax should be on a sliding scale starting at about $100 million with higher and higher percentages of tax paid the higher you get. Once you reach about $130 million in payroll, you should be taxed something like 2-dollars for every dollar more you have in payroll. It needs to be a real disincentive.

It is absurd that the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox and several other teams have payrolls that are more than 2 or 3 or 4 other teams COMBINED!!! That makes no sense.

--Jason "a level playing field, that is all we ask for" Evans

feldspar
05-08-2007, 09:54 AM
Can I jsut chime in and say that both of your teams suck!!! Baseball is the only sport where a few teams can spend so much more than everyone else that the playing field is just unfair. When you are the BoSox, Yankees, and Mets with payrolls that are 20%+ higher than virtually every other team in the game you do not have to worry about losing your stars to free agency, you get to pluck stars from other teams when htey are about to be freee agents, you get to bid outrageous amounts on pros from Asia and Cuba and elsewhere so other teams have no chance at them.

How is any of this fair?

The luxury tax should be on a sliding scale starting at about $100 million with higher and higher percentages of tax paid the higher you get. Once you reach about $130 million in payroll, you should be taxed something like 2-dollars for every dollar more you have in payroll. It needs to be a real disincentive.

It is absurd that the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox and several other teams have payrolls that are more than 2 or 3 or 4 other teams COMBINED!!! That makes no sense.

--Jason "a level playing field, that is all we ask for" Evans

You make a valid argument for a luxury tax and round-about for a salary cap, but the reality is that neither one exists as you envision.

To criticize organizations for spending money they are well within their rights to spend is petty and immature, in my not-so-humble opinion.

And, FWIW, it's only been a few short years since the Braves' payroll topped $100 million so, you know, let's not throw stones.

greybeard
05-08-2007, 10:04 AM
Roger Clemens is back with the Yankees. He signed a minor league contract so he can get himself into game shape. Very dramatic in-game announcement by Roger himself during the 7th inning stretch at the Stadium today - I can't wait to see it on Sports Center.

Equally important, the Yankees won their 2nd straight game with a strong pitching effort by their starting pitcher.

Look out Boston - that team making noise over your shoulder is the Yankees and here they come!

You might recall that I called this several weeks ago when everyone was concerned about how the Yankees were freefalling, yadayadayada. Roger, the Texan, is playing out a version of the old TV western, the Lone Ranger, Pallidan, come to mind. Of course, those guys did not get paid 18 big ones. Before you go patting yourselves on the back, Steinbrenner just bought the pot. I'm with Mr. Simon on this one, "Where have you gone, Joe Di . . . ."

The answer is, "Nowhere." The Yankees always bought the pot, Snider was better than Mantle, Campy was better than Yogi, Gil was better than Moose, and Carl Furillo remains the single most distinguished and accomplished player to ever have been blackballed from baseball and the hall of fame!

CMS2478
05-08-2007, 11:09 AM
You might recall that I called this several weeks ago when everyone was concerned about how the Yankees were freefalling, yadayadayada. Roger, the Texan, is playing out a version of the old TV western, the Lone Ranger, Pallidan, come to mind. Of course, those guys did not get paid 18 big ones. Before you go patting yourselves on the back, Steinbrenner just bought the pot. I'm with Mr. Simon on this one, "Where have you gone, Joe Di . . . ."

The answer is, "Nowhere." The Yankees always bought the pot, Snider was better than Mantle, Campy was better than Yogi, Gil was better than Moose, and Carl Furillo remains the single most distinguished and accomplished player to ever have been blackballed from baseball and the hall of fame!

I will pat you on the back for calling that. :D However, if the Yankees turn things around and make the playoffs it won't be because of The Rocket. It will be bc their whole team improves, particularly the rest of their starting pitching. Sure he helps, but one starting pitcher doesn't guarantee success.

tombrady
05-08-2007, 11:54 AM
Isn't that 28 games over .500?

98-98 is .500. If you play 56 more games and win them all, you get to 154-98. Thats 56 over .500.

tombrady
05-08-2007, 11:55 AM
I wonder if my grandkids will be chanting that number?

While this season looks like a rebuilding year, I think few Yankees fans would trade 3 championships in 10 years for Boston's 3 in 90.

This season is most definitely not a rebuilding year for the Yankees. If it were a rebuilding year, they would have not gotten Clemens. They are trying to win it all.

CMS2478
05-08-2007, 12:08 PM
This season is most definitely not a rebuilding year for the Yankees. If it were a rebuilding year, they would have not gotten Clemens. They are trying to win it all.

Isn't it funny that the Yankees have that monster of a lineup and some people refer to it as a rebuilding year. :rolleyes:

tombrady
05-08-2007, 12:17 PM
You know, I've just never understood this argument, and frankly, it's starting to bother me.

If the Yankees have the money, why SHOULDN'T they spend it on improving their team?

Until MLB adopts a salary cap, which they won't, this flacid "the Yankees keep throwing money at their problems" argument is just what I said - flacid as a wet, limp noodle.

This is true -- The yankees have money for a reason (though that reason is they happened to be located in the largest American city). If teams are good enough to generate revenue, and they reinvest it into their team to produce more victories, then there is nothing at all wrong with that. Call it what you wish -- buying a team, buying championships, etc....but its the market that we live in, and the Yankees (and red sox, and mets, etc) play it well. But "the Yankees keep throwing money at their problems" -- this isn't a flimsy argument, it is fact. Theres nothing wrong with this, however. Its how the system works. The problem comes when Yankee fans cry foul for people pointing this out. Its a fact, so they need to accept it. I accept the red sox went out and got the best right fielder (JD Drew) and a great new shortstop (Lugo) and the best Japanese pitcher (well, second best next to Okajima ;). And I point out that the red sox recent string of success has provided them the revenue to do this. and i'm fine with it. But the yankees are on their own level with a seemingly unlimited amount of funds, unlike every other team (including the red sox -- look at my abreu example in an above post). The fact is, if JD Drew or (heavens forbid) Matsuzaka flame out, it will seriously handicap the red sox for the next few years -- they will have to end up eating that salary in a trade or put up with poor performance. If these players were on the Yankees, it would be a blip on the radar, and full steam ahead.



you get to pluck stars from other teams when htey are about to be freee agents, you get to bid outrageous amounts on pros from Asia and Cuba and elsewhere so other teams have no chance at them.

How is any of this fair?

It is absurd that the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox and several other teams have payrolls that are more than 2 or 3 or 4 other teams COMBINED!!! That makes no sense.

--Jason "a level playing field, that is all we ask for" Evans

First off, revenue sharing/luxury tax has allowed small market teams to resign many of their best players the last few years (see Johan Santana on the Twins and Ben Sheets on the Brewers, etc). Its not perfect, but its helping. Those stars are no longer reaching free agency with the hometown teams having no shot at offering fair value.

The system is fair when the Florida Marlins won 2 WS in the space of 7 years while being an overall low-income franchise. Its fair when the Yankees (by far the highest) haven't won in nearly a decade. Its fair when this year the Milwaukee Brewers (18th), Indians (23rd), Braves (13th) are leading their divisions.

Its fair when last year the Cards (11th) played the Tigers (14th) in the WS. Also when the As continue to make the playoffs as a low-income team (though not have much success...)

There are ways to make a team successful on a limited payroll. In the last 7 years, there have been 7 WS champions, and 11 different teams playing in the WS. Baseball has parity, without a salary cap.

By comparison, with a salary cap, the last 7 years in the NFL there have been 5 different SB champions, in the NBA there have been 4 Finals champions in 7 years.

Dukerati
05-08-2007, 12:32 PM
Bluebear asked who was the last player the Sox outbid the Yankees on... someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't they blow everyone out of the water for Matsusaka?

I'm a Braves fan so I am certainly not taking sides here but ever since the Red Sox won in 2004, I believe there has been a spending trend with the Red Sox spending more and more money every year and the Yankees attempting to "slash" some payroll. I don't think it is far-fetched to believe that the Red Sox and Yankees will be on comparable payrolls in the very near future...

feldspar
05-08-2007, 01:00 PM
In any event, it's still safe to say that having a huge payroll and winning World Series do not necessarily go hand in hand. Sure there's inequality in baseball, but it's not like the Yankees and the Sox are winning the Series year in and year out. It's almost MORE comical to watch the Yankees come up short every year because of the fact that they have the highest payroll in baseball every year.

bluebear
05-08-2007, 01:01 PM
Bluebear asked who was the last player the Sox outbid the Yankees on... someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't they blow everyone out of the water for Matsusaka?

I'm a Braves fan so I am certainly not taking sides here but ever since the Red Sox won in 2004, I believe there has been a spending trend with the Red Sox spending more and more money every year and the Yankees attempting to "slash" some payroll. I don't think it is far-fetched to believe that the Red Sox and Yankees will be on comparable payrolls in the very near future...

I think I clarified that in the sentence before that question...the Dice-K bidding was a blinded process where no team knew what the other was bidding...The Yankees have offered more for every other player that the teams have both gone after in recent years..

The sox certainly spent more money this year but there is no way they will match Yankees in spending..they don't have the revenue to do that...I would expect the Sox payroll to drop in upcoming years as big contracts like Manny's come off the books and are replaced by younger cheaper talent. They will continue to spend more that almost every other team but still substantially less than the Yankees..

Dukerati
05-08-2007, 01:18 PM
My bad Bluebear, you did in fact clarify the Matsusaka signing in your earlier sentence. As for the spending discrepancy, Brian Cashman (if he is still the GM for a few years) has publicly stated his desire to cut the payroll and I believe he will genuinely attempt to do so. I expect that the Yankees will still have higher payrolls than the Red Sox, but the difference will be much less significant. Does anyone know what the difference in revenue is between the Red Sox and the Yankees?

bluebear
05-08-2007, 01:25 PM
I think with the addition of Clemens it'll be ~ 208M for the Yankees vs. 143M for the Sox...

Dukerati
05-08-2007, 02:19 PM
By difference in revenue, I meant difference in how much money each team generates through merchandise, tickets, etc... I'd be curious to know if the Yankees make more or less profit than the Red Sox do with all of their spending...

bluebear
05-08-2007, 02:23 PM
By difference in revenue, I meant difference in how much money each team generates through merchandise, tickets, etc... I'd be curious to know if the Yankees make more or less profit than the Red Sox do with all of their spending...

My bad..misread your question..

bluebear
05-08-2007, 02:30 PM
Here's some of the data...
http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=228&p=2&c=639063

Bostondevil
05-08-2007, 02:34 PM
Here's how Duke is like the Red Sox.

I truly love both teams and I can't understand why everyone else doesn't love them too! I'm like the Beach Boys, I wish they all could be Sox and Devil fans. (I put the Sox first only for the rhythm, Devil and Sox fans is harder to say. Sing?)

Dukerati
05-08-2007, 02:47 PM
Thanks for the link BlueBear! The Yankees make a TON of money.

tombrady
05-08-2007, 02:51 PM
Here's some of the data...
http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=228&p=2&c=639063

YES is a ridiculous source of income for the Yankees. As long as they are located in NYC, they will always have the most money to spend (unless LA explodes in the next few decades, and then decides to care about baseball).

This link is a great example of teams (Marlins, KC) that actually make money -- money they don't put back into the team (like the Yanks and Sox), but money the owners keep. Of course, this is their choice -- but it certainly doesn't endear them to the fans. As you can see, Jason, teams certainly have money to spend. Its more equal than you'd think.

tombrady
05-10-2007, 11:56 AM
Whoa, Tom Brady ... sorry to be such a burr under your saddle. Then again, I can understand how sensitive you'd be when your namesake turns out to be a closet Yankee fan:

http://thetrack.bostonherald.com/moreTrack/view.bg?articleid=198248

Points out how phony the spin control story was (that he was wearing the Yankee hat to disguise himself because a Yankee hit would be less conspicuous in New York). It turns out he was spotting outside a Boston donut shot two years ago wearing a Yankee hat.

I can imagine that would tick me off too!

I never realized I was such a master of invective ... imagine, coming up with such a vicious insult as "that Japanese guy" ... If I was really trying, I might have called him "That $52 million bust" But if it makes you feel any better, you can call Chein-Ming Wang, "that Taiwanese guy"

BTW, when you were comparing the salary structures of the Yankees and Red Sox, you kind of left out the $51.1 million the Red Sox paid for the privilege of wasting $52 million on "that stinking load of day-old sushi" (is that less insulting than "that Japanese guy")

So, instead of the current $195 million to $143 million payroll, the real figure is $195 million for the Yankees to $194 million for the Red Sox. Before you get all huffy ... I know that's not really comparing payroll because the acquistion cost of signing Dice-BB is not salary. I just pointed it out to explain why the free-spending Red Sox have little right to criticize the free-spending Yankees ... there's little difference between the two. Now if the A's or the Royals want to take a shot, fire away.

As for the lengths you go "disprove" every point I made ... thanks for the laugh. I mean, just take the Wang reference ... I suggest Wang is back from injury and pitching like he did last year ... and your response is:

Last year: 19-6, 3.63 ERA
This year: 1-2, 3.98 ERA

Well, as I said, Ming was returning from an injury that forced him to miss the first three weeks of the season ... In his first two starts, he gave up four earned runs in approximately six innings of work each time out ... in his last start, he gave up one run (and one hit) in eight innings of work. Now, I know that's one great start, but at least he seems to be heading in the right direction, as opposed to the guy who the Red Sox pissed that $103 million away on, who seems to be getting worse (let's see in consecutive starts he gave up 1-3-2-6-4-7 runs ... without going past seven innings in any start).

Anyway, enjoy the rest of the season. Maybe the Red Sox can finish with a better record than the Yankees for the first time since 1995. Or maybe not.



.............................
D Matsuzaka (W, 4-2) 7.0 5 1 1 3 8 1 108-70


lick it.

tombrady
05-10-2007, 04:01 PM
As for the lengths you go "disprove" every point I made ... thanks for the laugh. I mean, just take the Wang reference ... I suggest Wang is back from injury and pitching like he did last year ... and your response is:

Last year: 19-6, 3.63 ERA
This year: 1-2, 3.98 ERA

Well, as I said, Ming was returning from an injury that forced him to miss the first three weeks of the season ... In his first two starts, he gave up four earned runs in approximately six innings of work each time out ... in his last start, he gave up one run (and one hit) in eight innings of work.

C Wang (L, 1-3) 6.1 11 7 7 1 2 0

1-3, 5.40 ERA

rounding into form, eh?

after last night's matsuzaka performance, looks like i'm kicking your I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. all over the playground.

i win.

tombrady
05-11-2007, 07:02 AM
By then, the Yankee rotation ought to match up very well with the Red Sox -- Beckett is pitching out his mind and Schilling is excellent, but Wakefield is just a solid middle-of-the-rotation pitcher and Dice-K is a major disappointment.


Just because I love proving Yankees "fans" wrong, I'll throw up Wake's line from tonight -

7 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 5 K, 1.79 ERA on the season

That's our #4 starter right there by the way.

tombrady
05-14-2007, 09:19 PM
If I was really trying, I might have called him "That $52 million bust"

Daisuke Matsuzaka: W, (5-2) 9 IP 6 H 1 R 1 ER 0 BB 5 K 4.17 ERA

Duke4Ever32
05-15-2007, 09:29 AM
OlympicFan has been pretty quiet lately.

I wonder how many other teams would love to have the Red Sox's so-called "bust" right now? I bet the answer to that question is a number VERY near 29

CMS2478
05-15-2007, 09:34 AM
This thread originally was talking about the Rocket being back in NY and how he would turn things around..........now it is just an update everyday about how the Red Sox are still winning and the Yanks don't seem to be gaining considerable ground. (although I know the Rocket hasn't returned yet) But hey I hate the Yankees so, CARRY ON!!! :)