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BlueintheFace
01-14-2010, 07:28 PM
(sigh).... well, we might as well have a speculation thread about this. Since sources close to Cut are claiming he is out (http://www.digtriad.com/sports/article.aspx?storyid=135820&catid=13), who will Duke look at if/ when Cut leaves?

Here are a few names off the top of my head:

Sumlin- HC at UofH
Dooley- HC at La Tech

Have at it.

Kewlswim
01-14-2010, 07:31 PM
Go Duke!

uncwdevil
01-14-2010, 07:34 PM
There is speculation that Cut might not be able to bring his entire staff with him. If he takes the UT job, but can't take all of his assistants, are there any of them that might be candidates?

Hiring somebody off of the current staff might be a way to mitigate some of the damage to recruiting, assuming they are otherwise fit to be a head coach.

killerleft
01-14-2010, 07:36 PM
(sigh).... well, we might as well have a speculation thread about this. Since sources close to Cut are claiming he is out (http://www.digtriad.com/sports/article.aspx?storyid=135820&catid=13), who will Duke look at if/ when Cut leaves?

Here are a few names off the top of my head:

Sumlin- HC at UofH
Dooley- HC at La Tech

Have at it.

Cut might be gone, but that story also says he is staying, does it not?

CameronBornAndBred
01-14-2010, 07:37 PM
There is speculation that Cut might not be able to bring his entire staff with him. If he takes the UT job, but can't take all of his assistants, are there any of them that might be candidates?

Hiring somebody off of the current staff might be a way to mitigate some of the damage to recruiting, assuming they are otherwise fit to be a head coach.
I agree with that. They have to be at least worth looking at. The only problem is that the guy I would have most liked to have is the OC, and he left, so the current one, Kurt Roper, has no Duke history to bring. Ron Middleton would be my favorite from the current staff.

BlueintheFace
01-14-2010, 07:40 PM
Cut might be gone, but that story also says he is staying, does it not?

It seems to say that Cutcliffe will be going to Tenn, but he has not accepted yet.

Another man for consideration- the OC at Stanford, David Shaw

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-14-2010, 07:42 PM
If we've got to hire another coach, I like Associate Head Coach Ron Middleton.

roywhite
01-14-2010, 07:43 PM
Al Golden at Temple would be a good guy to consider.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Golden_(American_football)

Here's his wiki bio for those that may not know much about him. Has done a really good job at Temple.

DukeSince'77
01-14-2010, 07:43 PM
Next guy better not come in saying he wants to build a program, see it through, yada, yada, yada...'cause this Duke fan ain't believing a word of it.

AlaskanAssassin
01-14-2010, 07:48 PM
How do you guys feel about Leech or Jagodinski?

jjasper0729
01-14-2010, 07:50 PM
Next guy better not come in saying he wants to build a program, see it through, yada, yada, yada...'cause this Duke fan ain't believing a word of it.

call me jaded as well. I'll support whoever is here, but I don't want to hear those words.

DukeUsul
01-14-2010, 07:51 PM
What about bringing Rod Broadway back to Durham?

What about Ty Willingham? I believe Mr. White knows him.

CameronBornAndBred
01-14-2010, 07:53 PM
What about bringing Rod Broadway back to Durham?

What about Ty Willingham? I believe Mr. White knows him.
Broadway was looked at when Cut got the job..I liked him then...but now he has bigger shoes to fill.

SCMatt33
01-14-2010, 07:53 PM
I'm curious as to everyone thoughts on what level of coach we could get based on where the program is now. Cut made some great strides here in a short time, but the "Duke job" is still not a great football job. Would a young up-and-comer see Duke as a step up from a 1-A non-BCS job. Even with some success, Duke has still failed to fill Wally Wade with Duke fans consistently, though it has been much better. There are academic restrictions to consider and it would be harder to win in the ACC than C-USA or the MAC for example.

The optimist in me would like to say that a coach has seen the progress and would look to continue it, but I have a suspicion that we might be relegated to mid-level program coordinators and damaged goods coaches.

SoCalDukeFan
01-14-2010, 07:53 PM
Next guy better not come in saying he wants to build a program, see it through, yada, yada, yada...'cause this Duke fan ain't believing a word of it.

is that if the Duke football coach does well he leaves for a bigger job and if doesn't then we have to pay him off. I too am not going to believe a word of it.

To be fair to Cutcliffe it is reported that he had a clause in his contract that let him go to UTenn. He is not leaving for a bigger job he is leaving for a specific job that is his dream job.

I like Jim Mora Jr. When he got fired from the Seahawks it started this daisy chain.

I also think Cutcliffe was a great hire, even with him leaving. My understanding was that it was more the search committee than Joe Alleva that was responsible. Rumor is that Karl Dorrell of all people was Alleva's first choice.

I am also pretty sure that Kevin White is not going to hire Charlie Weis again.

SoCal

Kewlswim
01-14-2010, 07:56 PM
What about bringing Rod Broadway back to Durham?

What about Ty Willingham? I believe Mr. White knows him.

Hi,

I had Stanford season tickets for many years. I liked Coach Willingham a lot. I also like that he would be the first African-American Coach at any sport at Duke (think that is correct).

I wouldn't mind Jim Mora Jr. since he started this mess. (SoCal: Jinx, I was writing this as I guess you were thinking of Jim too.)

I like the OC from Boise State.

I would rather have someone who kids think will put them in contact with people in the NFL than someone who has no NFL ties. I like the idea of a pro-style offense too. I like Coach Spurrier if he was willing to come back.

GO DUKE!

FerryFor50
01-14-2010, 07:56 PM
I am also pretty sure that Kevin White is not going to hire Charlie Weis again.

SoCal

Likely not since Weis is working for the Chiefs now...

DukeSince'77
01-14-2010, 07:56 PM
Please assure me that K White is on the phone right now lining up 3-5 interviews with some top notch head coaches, OC's and/or DC's to see this rebuilding effort through...

cspan37421
01-14-2010, 08:05 PM
Mike Leach - I hope not. The James kid might have been a prima donna, but there are ways of handling that. Anyway, moving right along....

I'd like to see Duke reach out to a good, or top, Div 1 FCS coach. The Montana guy (Bobby Hauck) just left for UNLV - else he could have been a good hire - young, energetic, offensive minded.

The Villanova (this year's champs) coach doesn't appear to be going anywhere, nor is the App State guy. I think Wm & Mary was in the "final four" this year, too, and there are many others who seem to keep their teams strong year in and year out (James Madison, Richmond, Eastern IL, UNH, ....)

Jim Tressell came from Div I -AA after winning championships at Youngstown State, won one for Ohio State with John Cooper's recruits, and has at least kept OSU a top 10 school since.

My gut tells me that bringing up a talented guy from a "lower level" or lower profile school tends to work out better (Exhibit B: Paul Johnson at GT) than re-treads and problem coaches from same-level schools.

Recruiting is the name of the game, and I think success on the field tends to breed success in recruiting. That's why I'd rather have a lower profile, successful head coach, than a re-tread or coordinator. Just my opinion.

SoCalDukeFan
01-14-2010, 08:07 PM
rightly or wrongly had the reputation at Notre Dame of being lazy. He also failed at Washington. I do think he did well at Stanford.

I would hope that Kevin White has a list of 4 or 5 names and has already made the calls.

SoCal

CameronBornAndBred
01-14-2010, 08:10 PM
I would hope that Kevin White has a list of 4 or 5 names and has already made the calls.

My guess is that he has. I'm sure Cutcliffe was straight up with him in the morning meeting. I wonder if Duke will have a "search comittee" as they did with Cutcliffe, or knowing it's a time presser go ahead and let White take the reigns.

Duvall
01-14-2010, 08:17 PM
I wonder if Duke will have a "search comittee" as they did with Cutcliffe, or knowing it's a time presser go ahead and let White take the reigns.

I certainly hope so. That approach has worked great for Duke in the past.

crote
01-14-2010, 08:19 PM
How do you guys feel about Leech or Jagodinski?

From a pure football perspective, Leach would be an absolute homerun. His system seems like a good fit for our returning players, and he has proven time and again that he can win even if he's at the short end of a talent gap. I don't lend much credence to the James accusations, but personality could be a problem. Leach is an... interesting customer. As an outside observer I absolutely love it, but could see him grating some people the wrong way.

If we go the Up-and-Comer route, I would suggest a name that seemed like a good possibility two years ago: Auburn OC Gus Malzahn. He previously held the same position at Tulsa and Arkansas. He's a respected offensive guy, and again is a guy whose scheme benefits a team suffering from a relative talent disparity.

Kewlswim
01-14-2010, 08:25 PM
Hi,

I can say that I've listened to Coach Leech on tv and he ranges from bizarre to hilarious depending on who knows what. A man who marches to the beat of his own drummer. The kind of guy who will absolutely make the whole ACC cringe when we go play them. Who knows, maybe this James incident brings him a bit down to earth? I don't think we have anything to fear he probably isn't coming to Duke, but if it turns out that James was embellishing the story and Leech really did nothing wrong--wow, he would be fun to have at Duke if only because I think the rest of the ACC will despise playing his teams.

GO DUKE!

godukerocks
01-14-2010, 08:37 PM
I'll take Mike Leech in an instant. Just saying.

moonpie23
01-14-2010, 08:40 PM
all of this "speculation" is making me a bit crazy...


so.....


how about bill cowher.??......you know....till foxy is gone...you know he's just looking for something to do ....


ughhhhh!:eek:

kingboozer
01-14-2010, 08:41 PM
I'll take Mike Leech in an instant. Just saying.
i would too, just no keeping players in small dark place when they have a concussion:p

no but seriously, please come leach.

cspan37421
01-14-2010, 08:44 PM
I recognize that James is maybe a locker room cancer, but the team doctor distanced himself from Leach - that what he did was inconsistent with the standard of care for James' issue, which they diagnosed.

He may be a great football mind, but aren't there equally good candidates who don't pose such a risk of liability? Maybe not... still, it's not like that was a one-time thing. The guy really grated with his AD and administration. I'll vote "pass."

sagegrouse
01-14-2010, 08:52 PM
From a pure football perspective, Leach would be an absolute homerun. His system seems like a good fit for our returning players, and he has proven time and again that he can win even if he's at the short end of a talent gap. I don't lend much credence to the James accusations, but personality could be a problem. Leach is an... interesting customer. As an outside observer I absolutely love it, but could see him grating some people the wrong way.

If we go the Up-and-Comer route, I would suggest a name that seemed like a good possibility two years ago: Auburn OC Gus Malzahn. He previously held the same position at Tulsa and Arkansas. He's a respected offensive guy, and again is a guy whose scheme benefits a team suffering from a relative talent disparity.

Her's my view on Leach from a different thread:


:
Originally Posted by arnie is still king
If Cut goes, I hope we go after Mike Leach - his offense is perfect for Duke and could really change perceptions of Duke football! I doubt he's a bad guy; he just screwed up handling a prima dona with jerk father. He's probably learned that lesson. What better way to get Duke football in the news.

Mike Leach, IMHO (the H is silent when the Grouse cackles), is a University killer. He will scare the hell out of any AD or University President looking for a football coach. [He ain't gonna get hired by a serious program.]

WRT his handling of young James, he made every mistake in the book. In fact, the only bigger PR debacle I can think of is Perrier mishandling the allegations of benzene in its sparkling water. Moreover, he apparently had so intimidated the training staff that they actually did what he requested, instead of just ignoring it as a rant and hiding Adam James in study hall.

With any athlete with these difficulties (attitude and effort), there needs to be lots of communications with the young man about whether he really wants to play football at TTech. And in this case, where his father has a bigger microphone than everyone in Lubbock added together (now that RMK has departed), you make sure the father is also part of the conversation. And the secondary reponse is to support him if he wants to transfer; apparently, it wasn't happening at Texas Tech -- so why not?

Mike Leach's next gig will be as an OC at a weak Div I school or an HC at a small school that is willing to gamble.

sagegrouse
'Benzene was always naturally in Perrier in trace amounts, but the company ended up having a recall and lost at least half its sales in the US.'

cspan37421
01-14-2010, 08:57 PM
If Leach were offered and came, it would hurt his legal case against TTU that their defamation prevented him from getting another job. Wonder where he'd have more to gain - being employed or winning his case?

Jim3k
01-14-2010, 08:59 PM
He's a manipulator. Look at this series of e-mails (www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-09/1231leachblack.pdf) (all PDF) from last year published by the Dallas Morning News when he tried to jack TT around. It doesn't put him in a very good light since his relationship with the administration was pretty antagonistic. We don't need that soap opera.

CameronBornAndBred
01-14-2010, 09:00 PM
We need Leach like we need a leech. We are still trying to become a respectable program, and hiring him in his aftermath ain't the answer, no matter how good he might be. It's not worth it right now.

BlueintheFace
01-14-2010, 09:02 PM
we might need to bring in a coach with a full staff ready to go. Very few coaches will meet that description and Leach might be one of them.

crote
01-14-2010, 09:17 PM
He's a manipulator. Look at this series of e-mails (www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-09/1231leachblack.pdf) (all PDF) from last year published by the Dallas Morning News when he tried to jack TT around. It doesn't put him in a very good light since his relationship with the administration was pretty antagonistic. We don't need that soap opera.

From a quick scan, none of those emails definitively paint Leach in a bad light, and even if they did it would be dubious to draw any conclusions about the man based solely on the words of others.

Leach would win, and he would make Duke a program people talked about (for a variety of reasons). He's apparently a smart guy, too, and I suspect he would do alright coping with Duke's academic restrictions. The trade off is his personality. I could live with that, but I fully understand how others in the Duke community might not.

beachdevil
01-14-2010, 09:18 PM
An interesting candidate might be Norm Chow. He's interviewed for several HC jobs but never made the final cut (I believe he was a finalist for Stanford). Would also provide some symmetry to this entire mess.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-14-2010, 09:24 PM
An interesting candidate might be Norm Chow. He's interviewed for several HC jobs but never made the final cut (I believe he was a finalist for Stanford). Would also provide some symmetry to this entire mess.

He's already said he's not going to be the Wonder Boy's OC at USC.

SoCalDukeFan
01-14-2010, 09:26 PM
has a history of doing a great job as offensive coordinator and developer of quarterbacks. They loved him when he was at USC.

However he is in his mid 60s. I don't he is much for recruiting. And he would have to build a staff from scratch. My guess is that he is happier being the OC for UCLA and living in SoCal.

SoCal

Houston
01-14-2010, 09:29 PM
If we do need a new head coach, Willingham and Jagodinski would be disasters. I thought Willingham got a raw deal at ND, but his stint at Washington proved he can not coach. Jags would never unpack his bags, while he waited for a bigger program or the NFL to bat their pretty eyes at him.

I would love to see Kevin Sumlin, who has done an amazing job in a difficult situation at UofH. Mike Leach would be high beta hire. He could do an amazing job or implode. There would be no middle ground. The James situation was blown out of proportion and daddy James did not help. Texas Tech was also trying to save money.

I would like to roll the dice w/Leach, who should have been humbled after James-gate.

Verga3
01-14-2010, 09:49 PM
Steve Spurrier loves Duke, as many know. A long shot certainly....especially if you do the math on a buyout. Steve is 64, loves this area, loves golf (Pinehurst), and has plenty of friends here. His USC Receivers Coach is his son, Steve, Jr. (Duke '94) who has worked for Bob Stoops and was with the Ball Coach during his Redskins stint. Spurrier just today hired one of the best young running game/offensive line coaches, Shawn Elliott, from Appalachian State. Am I crazy? Thoughts?

P.S. I fully realize that this entire thread and my post is purely speculative until we hear from Coach Cut and Duke. I really hope that Cut finishes the job and his career here. I believe in his approach and commitment. If the UT job fulfills him personally and professionally, go for it.....but we will miss you.

jv001
01-14-2010, 09:54 PM
Steve Spurrier loves Duke, as many know. A long shot certainly....especially if you do the math on a buyout. Steve is 64, loves this area, loves golf (Pinehurst), and has plenty of friends here. His USC Receivers Coach is his son, Steve, Jr. (Duke '94) who has worked for Bob Stoops and was with the Ball Coach during his Redskins stint. Spurrier just today hired one of the best young running game/offensive line coaches, Shawn Elliott, from Appalachian State. Am I crazy? Thoughts?

Probably my first choice. Go Duke!

RelativeWays
01-14-2010, 09:59 PM
Spurrier is a long shot but remote possibility only because he's taken SCAR as far as he can, rumors are the two entities are tired of each other and Steve wouldn't be opposed to a change of scenery. He wouldn't have the same pressure at Duke as he did at SCAR, but I'm not sure how good of an actual program builder he is. We tanked quick with Barry Wilson, UF seemed to have its issues with Zook or whoever took over for Ball coach when he went to washington. Cut wasn't going to stay with us super long either, I'd say 5-7 years tops, but he was quite ideal for how Duke wanted to build up the program. I dunno about Spurrier.

VAGentleman05
01-14-2010, 10:05 PM
Al Golden at Temple would be a good guy to consider.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Golden_(American_football)

Here's his wiki bio for those that may not know much about him. Has done a really good job at Temple.

I agree completely. Al's done a tremendous job at Temple and would be a fantastic hire, IMO.

loran16
01-14-2010, 10:16 PM
Umm, so thinking of non-free agent coaches.....

Any chance we can entice June Jones? Pass Happy Offense, Check; Success with lower talent, Check.

Heck, it'd bring him into a BCS conference (no offence to CUSA).

pamtar
01-14-2010, 10:16 PM
I like Jim Mora Jr. When he got fired from the Seahawks it started this daisy chain.

Wow, didn't even think of it that way but it would be fitting ending to the carousel ride.

unexpected
01-14-2010, 10:27 PM
In my mind, the absolutely best candidate would be Mike Leach. For starters:

1) Duke has shown through Franks and through Roof that it cannot win playing conventional football. The Florida States and UMiamis of the ACC can do that- they can win consistently because they have superior athletes. For Duke to be a player, given our limitations, we need a coach willing to think "outside the box". Whether it be Paul Johnson at GTech, Calhoun at Air Force, Peterson at Boise State, or Sumlin at Houston, it's been shown that you can be successful at a "non-football powerhouse school" as long as you're willing to think unconventionally. The biggest risk in hiring a mid-level coach (willingham, dorrell, whomever) is that we stick to a bland, plain vanilla attack. Duke has shown time and time again that it cannot win that way.

2) Recruiting. To be honest, other than the qb position, I was never thrilled with Cutliffe's recruiting- yes it was better, but not overwhelmingly so. We never got the 5-star prospect that would change it all. Leach would bring that sort of credibility. Despite his personality, players love playing in his offense.

3) Leach deserves a second chance. Let's face it- as we've just shown with Cutliffe, and with Spurrier in the past, if a coach has any amount of success here, another program is going to snap him up. I don't want to be looking for football coaches every 2-3 years. If we want to engender some loyalty in our coach, we need to feel like we're doing him a favor. Hiring Leach would do this. Suppose we hire Sumlin (from Houston). If he has any success here, what's going to stop him from leaving in 3 years for the next SEC/Big 12 job that opens up? The same reasons that Cutliffe is leaving (academic restrictions, always a basketball school, etc.) will still exist. We need some leverage against this.

Who's to say that people can't change? Also, Leach has only been convicted in the court of public opinion. No one really knows what happened. Duke fans should know how dangerous it is to judge someone based solely on the court of public opinion (see: LAX, 2006) Yes, Leach made it a PR disaster, but isn't he capable of learning from that? He was the toast of the nation in 2008.

4) Excitement. We want to fill seats right? Football games would become FUN again if they become 54-36 affairs. Leach would shine some much needed attention to the Duke football program.

5) The ACC is in a total vacuum right now. Miami looks lost. Florida State is going through a big transition. Vtech always seems to "close, but not quite". The ACC is really RIPE for the taking. Leach was able to take an "also-ran" football program (believe me, I'm from Texas, and Tech will always be behind UT, A&M, and OU- in Texas!), and turn it into a Big 12 powerhouse. He was able to get big-time recruits (Crabtree!). He could dominate North Carolina recruiting. We could have epic battles with UNC: Butch Davis's defense vs. the Duke offense. It could be a spectacle.

cspan37421
01-14-2010, 10:40 PM
Unexpected - you make really good points, but I don't fully agree. On point 1, I'm in total agreement. 2) valid, I suppose. 3a) agree on conclusion but I don't think Leach is such a pariah yet that we're doing him a favor. I'm even more confident he'd view it the other way! 3b) LAX case agreed, but again, his frosty relationship with the admin was established well before the James "mistake." 4) The NCSU game was fun this year! Spurrier brought some of that - and interestingly it was TTU that handed us our heads in the bowl game. 5) maybe ...

Jim3k
01-14-2010, 11:13 PM
From a quick scan, none of those emails definitively paint Leach in a bad light, and even if they did it would be dubious to draw any conclusions about the man based solely on the words of others.

I strongly disagree. He was manipulating for a raise, suggesting he had offers when he did not. That is an issue of integrity. We need integrity and he has a history of not supplying it.

Your concern about 'the words of others' means you have dismissed university counsel and the AD's office. These are not 'other people' -- these are the folks he works with.

That came through rather clearly in the James case. there, not only did his lack of integrity become clear, so did his lack of concern for an injured player. But what was worse was his insubordination in refusing to discuss the matter with the AD or the university president.

This guy is trouble and a lawsuit waiting to happen.



Leach would win, and he would make Duke a program people talked about (for a variety of reasons). He's apparently a smart guy, too, and I suspect he would do alright coping with Duke's academic restrictions. The trade off is his personality. I could live with that, but I fully understand how others in the Duke community might not.

You are making the same mistake that many the TT Leach-supporters did. Winning being being value as more important than integrity. Duke always tries to play it right. Leach doesn't care one way or the other so long as he gets his way.

The fact that his offense is a bit quirky is no reason to jump for it. That's available from other coaches, as well.

Leach, IMO, is very bad news. I hope Dr. White stays away from him like the plague.

langdonfan
01-14-2010, 11:29 PM
If Leach were offered and came, it would hurt his legal case against TTU that their defamation prevented him from getting another job. Wonder where he'd have more to gain - being employed or winning his case?

Would ending up at Duke hurt or HELP Leach's case? ;-)

http://www.georgiabankruptcyblog.com/archives/miscellaneous-cases-duke-has-the-worst-college-football-team-in-america-as-a-matter-of-law.html

All jokes aside, I think Leach would be a VERY intriguing candidate, but we would likely end up in this exact same situation 2-3 years from now. Wasn't it his willingness to put his name in the hat for other jobs (sometimes secretly) that caused a rift between Leach and Texas Tech? That concerns me even more than the Adam James situation.

sagegrouse
01-14-2010, 11:34 PM
From the Home Page:

"Tennessee and David Cutcliffe finished the day Thursday without agreement but are definitely negotiating.

"We hate to say this, because we appreciate everything Cutcliffe has done for Duke and we think he’s a good man, but if he’d rather be somewhere else, then go ahead and go. We don’t really want him to come back just because UT wouldn’t accept his whole staff or whatever the snag is. We’d much rather have a coach who wants to be at Duke and believes in what the school stands for. If that’s not David Cutcliffe, despite everything he’s said, then we’ll follow the search with rapt interest."

Hey, Julio! This is just business. Who can blame Cut for negotiating with UT? There is no downside to listening to offers. The worst that can happen (for him) is that he gets a raise at Duke.

Lets see how this plays out. Seems like a really strange choice for UT, though, given that they were building for the future with a 34-YO coach. Even though Kiffin left, the basic motivation must remain to find a long-term solution.

sagegrouse

crote
01-14-2010, 11:46 PM
I strongly disagree. He was manipulating for a raise, suggesting he had offers when he did not. That is an issue of integrity. We need integrity and he has a history of not supplying it.

Your concern about 'the words of others' means you have dismissed university counsel and the AD's office. These are not 'other people' -- these are the folks he works with.


In this context, those two represent the other party he is negotiating with, which absolutely makes them "other people," even more so if you consider the bad blood that for whatever reason existed between him and the powers that be. From those emails, there seemed to be bad faith flowing in both directions (at one point one of the emailers said that Leach wasn't any more successful than Mangino at Kansas or Pinkel at Mizzou, which is absurd).



You are making the same mistake that many the TT Leach-supporters did. Winning being being value as more important than integrity. Duke always tries to play it right. Leach doesn't care one way or the other so long as he gets his way.


As far as I can recall, Leach has never been the center of any kind of recruiting scandal. He graduates his players (TTU was #9 in the country and #1 among public universities in that regard in 2008). Accusations about low character or lack of integrity are all coming from the higher ups at TTU, who seem to have some kind of ax to grind with the man. Maybe their complaints are well founded, maybe not, but I'm going to need to hear that from some other source.

unexpected
01-14-2010, 11:50 PM
I agree with crote. Jim3K, you keep mentioning "lawsuit waiting to happen", but the fact of the matter is, 90% of his time spent at Tech was relatively blissful. Just because they had an acrimonious breakup doesn't mean that the rest of his time was bad, either.

Jim3k
01-15-2010, 12:35 AM
I agree with crote. Jim3K, you keep mentioning "lawsuit waiting to happen", but the fact of the matter is, 90% of his time spent at Tech was relatively blissful. Just because they had an acrimonious breakup doesn't mean that the rest of his time was bad, either.

I certainly question your claim that 90% of the time was blissful. Since you're making the claim, usually we ask that you provide some sort of proof for broad statements like that. If it's only your opinion, fine. Still, you could support that as well.

As for a 'lawsuit waiting to happen,' I would agree that such is my opinion. However, Leach has a law degree from Pepperdine as well as a Master's from US Sports Academy. He's full of himself and that, together with a readiness to engage in an employment dispute, seems easily recognizable as a fuse to such a suit. He's simply trouble waiting to happen.

I repeat: we don't need it. There are better choices. (And keeping Cut is the one I hope we can make.)

Jim3k
01-15-2010, 12:39 AM
In this context, those two represent the other party he is negotiating with, which absolutely makes them "other people," even more so if you consider the bad blood that for whatever reason existed between him and the powers that be. From those emails, there seemed to be bad faith flowing in both directions (at one point one of the emailers said that Leach wasn't any more successful than Mangino at Kansas or Pinkel at Mizzou, which is absurd).



As far as I can recall, Leach has never been the center of any kind of recruiting scandal. He graduates his players (TTU was #9 in the country and #1 among public universities in that regard in 2008). Accusations about low character or lack of integrity are all coming from the higher ups at TTU, who seem to have some kind of ax to grind with the man. Maybe their complaints are well founded, maybe not, but I'm going to need to hear that from some other source.

Maybe the ax they are grinding is in response to Leach's not-so-subtle manipulation. He was asking for a bigger raise than they wanted to give him. Rather than walking, he decided to present false offers from other universities. I think that's worth deciding to mistrust him.

Kfanarmy
01-15-2010, 01:18 AM
Maybe the ax they are grinding is in response to Leach's not-so-subtle manipulation. He was asking for a bigger raise than they wanted to give him. Rather than walking, he decided to present false offers from other universities. I think that's worth deciding to mistrust him.


Maybe the ax they are grinding is in response to Leach's not-so-subtle manipulation. He was asking for a bigger raise than they wanted to give him. Rather than walking, he decided to present false offers from other universities. I think that's worth deciding to mistrust him.

First, had Leach wanted to leave Texas Tech at that point, he would have had better offers, probably even within the Big12. I have no doubt other schools were interested.
Second, the AD and University leadership were incredibly disingenuous in their actions during the "investigation" of the James incident...There is NO WAY the university lawyers didn't tell them that Leach would be a fool to sign documents hinting that he was at fault even before they completed the investigation...so they presented him with a doc for signature essentially implying that what he had done had hurt a player, then used his refusal as an excuse to suspend, then fire him...It was a set up. Leach as a lawyer, and anyone who represented him faithfully would have told him not to sign that doc while an investigation was under way. I believe the wrangling over the earlier raise caused some university leaders to have hurt feelings primarily because they discovered the money men in the alum supported the coach over the positions of the AD and others....they were looking for payback and Leach gave them an excuse....on top of that according to all reports, the James kid wanted to play at TT but didn't want to have to work too hard and daddy was using his position at ESPN to exagerate exactly what happened...initial reports would have made you think the son was locked in a closet, in the dark amongst electrical gear...only later did we hear reporting, off ESPN, that the electrical closet was actually where press had often waited for the team for post-practice interviews...There are still a lot of details not being reported on ESPN. Understandably peers want to support their fellow sportscaster, but I personally don't believe Leach committed a cardinal sin against James...lets see he wants to play, gets chewed out for not working hard one day, after practice the next day goes to the doc claiming a mild concussion (try proving that is/isn't true), but still wants to play in the bowl game...what do you do? let him sit on the sidelines while the rest of the kids practice? Pull his scholly? find someway to make him uncomfortable that doesn't endanger him? Probably the best thing would have been to put him on an injured list, but I'll bet two days before the game, he'd have gone to the doc seeking a clean bill of health.

Jim3k
01-15-2010, 02:18 AM
First, had Leach wanted to leave Texas Tech at that point, he would have had better offers, probably even within the Big12. I have no doubt other schools were interested.
Second, the AD and University leadership were incredibly disingenuous in their actions during the "investigation" of the James incident...There is NO WAY the university lawyers didn't tell them that Leach would be a fool to sign documents hinting that he was at fault even before they completed the investigation...so they presented him with a doc for signature essentially implying that what he had done had hurt a player, then used his refusal as an excuse to suspend, then fire him...It was a set up. Leach as a lawyer, and anyone who represented him faithfully would have told him not to sign that doc while an investigation was under way. I believe the wrangling over the earlier raise caused some university leaders to have hurt feelings primarily because they discovered the money men in the alum supported the coach over the positions of the AD and others....they were looking for payback and Leach gave them an excuse....on top of that according to all reports, the James kid wanted to play at TT but didn't want to have to work too hard and daddy was using his position at ESPN to exagerate exactly what happened...initial reports would have made you think the son was locked in a closet, in the dark amongst electrical gear...only later did we hear reporting, off ESPN, that the electrical closet was actually where press had often waited for the team for post-practice interviews...There are still a lot of details not being reported on ESPN. Understandably peers want to support their fellow sportscaster, but I personally don't believe Leach committed a cardinal sin against James...lets see he wants to play, gets chewed out for not working hard one day, after practice the next day goes to the doc claiming a mild concussion (try proving that is/isn't true), but still wants to play in the bowl game...what do you do? let him sit on the sidelines while the rest of the kids practice? Pull his scholly? find someway to make him uncomfortable that doesn't endanger him? Probably the best thing would have been to put him on an injured list, but I'll bet two days before the game, he'd have gone to the doc seeking a clean bill of health.


We had this discussion in a thread about 10 days ago. I am not going to repeat myself. The paper was presented to Leach only after he refused to talk to the AD about the James family's complaint.

Once James was diagnosed with a concussion, Leach should have waited for the doctor's clearance which he did not do and which the doctor has pretty much said. If James was actually disruptive (no proof of that), Leach should have sent him off the field without the petty 'stand in the dark shed' instruction. ("Take the afternoon off, son.") The doc didn't even approve of that. The dark glasses were part of the doc's recommendation, not James' act of bravado. But Leach was too full of himself to fully accept the explanation.

NYC Duke Fan
01-15-2010, 03:59 AM
Bill Parcells...I am sure that he would like to get back into coaching again.Then he could hire Bill Bellichek to be his Defensive Coordinator, with the promise that in 2 years he would become the head coach at Duke.

Phil Simms would be the offensive coordinator and Lawrence Taylor the LB coach, ( maybe not ..a UNC alumni)...Harry Carson as LB coach .

ricks68
01-15-2010, 04:17 AM
It is well known that James has a "spoiled brat" kinda atttitude while at TTech. Also, it is well known that his father has a 'tude. When you consider that Leach's coaching style has often not been considered acceptable (too rigid) in this day and age--even in Texas, what other results could have come about from the situations that were presented?

Leach would be a disaster for Duke. :eek:

ricks

UrinalCake
01-15-2010, 06:35 AM
Bill Parcells...I am sure that he would like to get back into coaching again.Then he could hire Bill Bellichek to be his Defensive Coordinator, with the promise that in 2 years he would become the head coach at Duke.

Phil Simms would be the offensive coordinator and Lawrence Taylor the LB coach, ( maybe not ..a UNC alumni)...Harry Carson as LB coach .

Wow, this has gone from speculation to outright fantasy (though likely with a dose of sarcasm). Maybe Tony Dungy will decide he wants a new challenge (besides mentoring Michael Vick) and enter the college ranks.

Has the Vanderbilt coach been mentioned? He was in the mix when Cut was hired.

duke79
01-15-2010, 08:45 AM
One name that I have not seen on this thread yet (assuming Coach Cut leaves for Tenn) is the Colgate coach, Dick Biddle, who was supposedly in the running before Coach Cut was hired. Coach Biddle was a third-team All American linebacker at Duke in the late 60's and early 70's (class of 1971) who has had a tremendous record as head coach over the past decade or so at Colgate (admittedly Division 1-AA school). I think anyone who can recruit good football players and win at Colgate should be able to do the same at Duke. Obviously, he knows Duke and understands the limitations and challenges of the job. Furthermore, at his age (I think he is in his late 50's), he would not view the Duke job as a stepping stone to a bigger position, if he succeeds with the Duke program). Although he is a defensive specialist (defense wins football games while offense puts people in the stands), I'm sure Duke could find a young, creative, innovative OC to run the offense. At this point, I don't see Duke attracting a top-flight Division I Coach to come to Durham to run the program and, even if we could attract such a person, how long would they stay if they succeeded? The last thing we need now is a 2 or 3-year Coach. We need some stability in the program. There is always the possibility that a hire like Coach Biddle could turn out to be a "Carl Franks" mistake, but I'm not sure Duke has many other good options at this point.

uncwdevil
01-15-2010, 08:47 AM
Cutcliffe is staying!

Let's file this thread away for about 10 years.

CameronBornAndBred
01-15-2010, 08:47 AM
It looks like this thread might be a candidate for locking, reports are Cut is staying.

duke79
01-15-2010, 09:05 AM
I hope it's true that Coach Cut is staying. My impression is that he is a first rate football coach and a class and stand-up person - definitely an asset to the Duke football program and the Duke community. I was going to write that, although I would disappointed if he left for the Tenn job, it would be understandable (from his perspective). First, the Tenn job supposedly pays twice what the Duke job pays, plus the assistant coaches are much higher paid. Second, although I don't consider the Duke job chopped liver in the world of college football, it is certainly NOT what the Tenn job is. The SEC is arguably the best football conference in the country and Tenn has the potential to compete at the highest levels in that conference. Duke would be lucky to be one of the three of four best teams in the ACC. Third, a football school like Tenn always has the possibility of being a national title contender - something I don't think Duke will ever attain. Fourth, there is the question of fan support for the program. Tenn sells out all of its game while Duke is lucky to have WW half full. I was watching the Duke-Georgia Tech game on TV this past Fall (an important game for Duke at the time) and when they scanned the stadium on a beautiful Fall day in Durham, it looked to be about 35% full. I just thought to myself, Coach Cut deserves better than this. At Coach Cut's age and given his health situation, an opportunity to coach at a school like Tenn comes around once in a lifetime. I would not criticize him for taking the job, despite what he said about the Duke job when he took it.
Again, this may be irrelevant, if he is staying at Duke which I hope is the case.

blazindw
01-15-2010, 09:16 AM
won't be coming for a while...Cutcliffe stays! EXTREMELY happy right now! And now, this thread has entered Locksville.

THREAD (HAPPILY) CLOSED.