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BlueDevilCorvette!
01-12-2010, 10:46 AM
As a true Duke basketball fan, I am proud of everything related to Duke basketball. However, it really irks me when I take a lot of heat from opposing fans (mostly UNC) who make fun of Cameron Indoor Stadium. First thing out their mouth is that CIS is a high school gym, no A/C, a shoebox or Coach K is too tight with money to approval a new/bigger facility.

I have not had the opportunity to attend a game at CIS, so could someone please give me some decent "comeback phrases" to use as a response to these folks that have chronic cases of diarrhea of the mouth! Thanks

BlueintheFace
01-12-2010, 10:48 AM
"Then why has it been ranked the hardest arena to play in multiple times in both players and coaches polls over the years?"

Matches
01-12-2010, 10:49 AM
"Coach K is too tight with money?" Where'd that even come from? He's not exactly buying suits off the rack...

Duvall
01-12-2010, 10:50 AM
"This is not a Duke kind of crowd. It’s more like a cheese-and-wine crowd, kind of laid back.”

Sam Cassell, December 1991 (http://www.lib.unc.edu/ncc/ref/unc/cq/cassell.html)

(Tight with money? The campus has basically been a construction site for the last decade and a half.)

Olympic Fan
01-12-2010, 11:10 AM
First, you're UNC fan is wrong -- Cameron does have air conditioning (added about four years ago).

As for Duke's refusal to replace Cameron, the comment about K being too tight to spend money is ridiculous .... it wouldn't be his money. If the university wanted a newer arena, they could raise money the same way UNC did for the Smith Center -- sell permanent seat licenses to big boosters in return for donations (one reason that the UNC court is surrounded by fat cats, except for the one end zone where the students are squeezed in).

Why would Duke want to replace the greatest arena in college basketball?

That's not my opinion. That was Sports Illustrated's determination in 2000, when the magazine picked the top sporting venues (world-wide) of the 20th Century. Cameron came in fourth, ahead of such venues as Wrigley Field, Fenway and Lambeau Field (the only basketball arena in the top 10).

ESPN went even better, ranking Cameron No. 2 all-time (just American this time) -- behind Wrigley Field, but ahead of Fenway, Yankee Stadium and Madison Square Garden.

It's funny. UNC used to have a great homecourt atmosphere in old Carmichael Auditorium. Reynolds is Raleigh was very similar to Cameron. But both UNC and State exchanged their small, intimate -- and historic arenas -- for sterile, shiny new "palaces" -- attend a non-Duke game in the Smith Center or in the RBC Center sometime and it will make you cry for what has been lost.

CameronBornAndBred
01-12-2010, 11:23 AM
You know how many heels fans long for the days of Carmichael again? I don't, but I bet everyone who had those season tickets back then wishes they still were playing there instead of the barren cavern of the Dean Dome. unc sold out to the money crowd, and their home games suffer for it. Granted, Duke would never sell as many tickets as they do for the dome, but Duke doesn't have the alumni base to do it, either. Not even all of the Cameron games are filled, so for Duke's size it's a perfect fit, and it makes it THE BEST atmosphere to experience in college basketball.

jaimedun34
01-12-2010, 11:37 AM
The comment about "K is too tight with money" is, well, something you expect to see from the locals at IC. Didn't we just build a multimillion dollar athletic facility?

airowe
01-12-2010, 11:47 AM
As a true Duke basketball fan, I am proud of everything related to Duke basketball. However, it really irks me when I take a lot of heat from opposing fans (mostly UNC) who make fun of Cameron Indoor Stadium. First thing out their mouth is that CIS is a high school gym, no A/C, a shoebox or Coach K is too tight with money to approval a new/bigger facility.

I have not had the opportunity to attend a game at CIS, so could someone please give me some decent "comeback phrases" to use as a response to these folks that have chronic cases of diarrhea of the mouth! Thanks

Tell them to put the pizza down and not to come back until you call them again.

hurleyfor3
01-12-2010, 11:48 AM
Fine, tell them they are free to enjoy their UNC basketball from row Y of the upper deck of the Dean Dome.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-12-2010, 11:56 AM
Has Carolina built anything that was paid for by a Rose Bowl appearance?

left_hook_lacey
01-12-2010, 12:10 PM
Obviously, those comments that you hear are from UNC fans reaching for something to stir your pot, and it worked. But if you must have a comeback....


"Yeah, it is half-the size of the Dean-Dome, but twice as loud, which would you prefer?"

OZZIE4DUKE
01-12-2010, 12:17 PM
Tell them to put the pizza down and not to come back until you call them again.


Fine, tell them they are free to enjoy their UNC basketball from row Y of the upper deck of the Dean Dome.


Has Carolina built anything that was paid for by a Rose Bowl appearance?


Obviously, those comments that you hear are from UNC fans reaching for something to stir your pot, and it worked. But if you must have a comeback....


"Yeah, it is half-the size of the Dean-Dome, but twice as loud, which would you prefer?"
Four great comebacks! I especially like Airowe's. :D:cool:

DU82
01-12-2010, 12:47 PM
Has Carolina built anything that was paid for by a Rose Bowl appearance?

Wouldn't they have to have played in the granddaddy of them all to do that? :rolleyes:

Lord Ash
01-12-2010, 12:53 PM
Easy:

It is the greatest arena in basketball, and one of the greatest in sports, as has been acknowledged by anyone with any amount of sports knowledge and a smidge of brains.

(There is a lot unsaid there, but so be it.)

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-12-2010, 12:56 PM
Wouldn't they have to have played in the granddaddy of them all to do that? :rolleyes:
Yes.... that's the point. Carolina has nothing to compare to Cameron Indoor Stadium or the circumstances of its creation.

jacone21
01-12-2010, 01:24 PM
I've been looking for an appropriate time to post my experience. This thread seems like a good place.

I was in Durham between 12/29 and 01/01. I had the good fortune to attend both the Long Beach St and Penn games in Cameron. Well, on 12/30, we didn't have much going on, so my wife and I decided to take in the UNC/Albany game at the Dean Dome. We had never been there and decided to take the opportunity to check it out... so that we could say we had seen a game there.

I was not impressed. The contrast with Cameron is remarkable. I can't begin to express the contrast, but I'll try.

Now, it should be noted that, being an intense Duke fan, I am biased. So, I admit that I may have a more negative impression of the Dean Dome because of my bias. But as a basketball fan in general, I thought I might enjoy seeing the Heels play at home. I was wrong.

We had seats in (what should be) a good location. I sprung for some donor seats, lower level, around the end line. Definitely in the top 30% of seats.

Man! Where do I begin?

The sight lines. They were horrible. I don't know if the slope of the stands is too gradual, but when people sat in front of us (more on that in a minute), we literally could not see the floor. These weren't particularly tall people either, but in order to see the action, we had to bob our heads back and forth trying to see around the backs of baby blue topped noggins. What's up with that? I found it weird and annoying that, by design, I couldn't see from what should have been a very good seat. Are all the seats like that? Strange.

The seats. They have spring loaded backs that spring forward when someone gets up, allowing more walking room between the rows of seats. The problem is, they lean waaaay back. And when people sat in front of us (more on that in a minute) the seat backs came crashing into our knees. Crashing is not an exaggerated term. And that was when we were sitting back in our seats with our knees as far back as possible. You have to watch out for those seats and try to put your knees to the sides to avoid a bruised kneecap. I also found that weird and annoying.

People. Again, admitting my prejudice, I was very distracted by the fans. About 5 minutes into the first half, people were coming into our section from everywhere sitting in seats for which they had no tickets. I'm not completely opposed to that, but they were yelling across the section at each other. "Dan, nobody's sitting in these two! Dan! DAN! Nobody's sitting here!!!" Meanwhile, live action is occurring on the floor, and I'm bobbing my head back and forth, trying to see around the guy in front of me, while someone in the aisle is blocking my view and yelling at Dan. It was just bizarre, especially after having been in a corner seat in Cameron the previous night. It went on the whole time we were there... people in the aisles blocking the view, people in and out of their seats crashing knees and blocking the view, people yelling at each other and talking without watching the game.

At half time... we just left. I've never walked out on a game at half time before, but that was all I could take. I couldn't see the game, so why stay? It totally, undeniably sucked, and I'll never, ever, ever go back to the Dean Dome.

The next night we were in Cameron again. We watched the game from section 17, standing first row, behind the media tables. We were so close, we almost got Zoubeked once. We could see everything, hear the sneakers squeak on the floor. We were right there. Everyone... and I mean every single soul in our area was utterly focused on the game. Any yelling was yelling about basketball. It was incredible, exhilarating, perfect. Our spirits were renewed.

Anyone who touts the Dean Dome as being better than Cameron is a freaking idiot, and should be told that. Again, I'm biased a bit, but I'm also a basketball fan, who comes to a game to see the game. Cameron has no equal among the places I've been. Cameron doesn't even have any peers. It's an arena for watching and experiencing the best game in the world.

In Cameron, the game is all that matters.

Duvall
01-12-2010, 01:28 PM
Another thing to note is that the Dean Dome is now pushing 25, which is fairly old by arena standards. It may have been nice back in the 80's, but today it's not nearly as good a venue as Virginia's new facility, or even Maryland's. So the SAC pretty much has nothing going for it at this point - it's too old to be modern and too new to have character. It's pretty much the U.S. Cellular Field of college basketball.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-12-2010, 02:00 PM
We were so close, we almost got Zoubeked once. We could see everything, hear the sneakers squeak on the floor. We were right there.
Well, to be fair ;), for most games not against Duke, you can hear sneakers squeak on TV in the Dean Dome, because there is no other fan noise to obscure it! :eek:

CameronBornAndBred
01-12-2010, 02:04 PM
We were so close....(we could) hear the sneakers squeak on the floor.
At the Dean Dome you can do that from the top row of the upper deck.:D

ice-9
01-12-2010, 10:26 PM
I've been looking for an appropriate time to post my experience. This thread seems like a good place.

I was in Durham between 12/29 and 01/01. I had the good fortune to attend both the Long Beach St and Penn games in Cameron. Well, on 12/30, we didn't have much going on, so my wife and I decided to take in the UNC/Albany game at the Dean Dome. We had never been there and decided to take the opportunity to check it out... so that we could say we had seen a game there.

I was not impressed. The contrast with Cameron is remarkable. I can't begin to express the contrast, but I'll try.

Now, it should be noted that, being an intense Duke fan, I am biased. So, I admit that I may have a more negative impression of the Dean Dome because of my bias. But as a basketball fan in general, I thought I might enjoy seeing the Heels play at home. I was wrong.

We had seats in (what should be) a good location. I sprung for some donor seats, lower level, around the end line. Definitely in the top 30% of seats.

Man! Where do I begin?

The sight lines. They were horrible. I don't know if the slope of the stands is too gradual, but when people sat in front of us (more on that in a minute), we literally could not see the floor. These weren't particularly tall people either, but in order to see the action, we had to bob our heads back and forth trying to see around the backs of baby blue topped noggins. What's up with that? I found it weird and annoying that, by design, I couldn't see from what should have been a very good seat. Are all the seats like that? Strange.

The seats. They have spring loaded backs that spring forward when someone gets up, allowing more walking room between the rows of seats. The problem is, they lean waaaay back. And when people sat in front of us (more on that in a minute) the seat backs came crashing into our knees. Crashing is not an exaggerated term. And that was when we were sitting back in our seats with our knees as far back as possible. You have to watch out for those seats and try to put your knees to the sides to avoid a bruised kneecap. I also found that weird and annoying.

People. Again, admitting my prejudice, I was very distracted by the fans. About 5 minutes into the first half, people were coming into our section from everywhere sitting in seats for which they had no tickets. I'm not completely opposed to that, but they were yelling across the section at each other. "Dan, nobody's sitting in these two! Dan! DAN! Nobody's sitting here!!!" Meanwhile, live action is occurring on the floor, and I'm bobbing my head back and forth, trying to see around the guy in front of me, while someone in the aisle is blocking my view and yelling at Dan. It was just bizarre, especially after having been in a corner seat in Cameron the previous night. It went on the whole time we were there... people in the aisles blocking the view, people in and out of their seats crashing knees and blocking the view, people yelling at each other and talking without watching the game.

At half time... we just left. I've never walked out on a game at half time before, but that was all I could take. I couldn't see the game, so why stay? It totally, undeniably sucked, and I'll never, ever, ever go back to the Dean Dome.

The next night we were in Cameron again. We watched the game from section 17, standing first row, behind the media tables. We were so close, we almost got Zoubeked once. We could see everything, hear the sneakers squeak on the floor. We were right there. Everyone... and I mean every single soul in our area was utterly focused on the game. Any yelling was yelling about basketball. It was incredible, exhilarating, perfect. Our spirits were renewed.

Anyone who touts the Dean Dome as being better than Cameron is a freaking idiot, and should be told that. Again, I'm biased a bit, but I'm also a basketball fan, who comes to a game to see the game. Cameron has no equal among the places I've been. Cameron doesn't even have any peers. It's an arena for watching and experiencing the best game in the world.

In Cameron, the game is all that matters.


Fantastic post! The only other basketball games I've ever watched live were NBA games, and while enjoyable I always assumed they're not supposed to feel the same as CIS games. It's nice to know that's also the case in the Dean Dome. :)

Your post also brings back great memories...I became a Duke fan the moment I stepped into Cameron in 1998 vs. Georgia Tech. It was exactly as you described it...

Sgt. Dingleberry
01-12-2010, 11:09 PM
I have never been to a game at CIS...I was lucky enough to shoot some baskets there, but nobody was in attendence except my dad...

Anyway, last year I was given some tickets to watch UNC play Penn....I have never been to such a pulseless sporting event with a high caliber program or team....I have gone to golf tournaments that had more crowd energy than the crowd at the Dean Dome that night....Sam Cassell is dead on with his comments, at least from my experience...

elvis14
01-12-2010, 11:56 PM
I've made it to 1 or 2 games in CIS in each of the last couple of years (none so far this year :(). Last week I went to the NCSU/Holy Cross game. I've attended multiple games at the Dean Dome. I attended several NCSU games at Reynolds. CIS is by far the best place I've ever been to watch a basketball game. The energy and intensity of the crowd and the character of the facility is just unmatched. The Dean Dome is by far the worst place I've ever been to watch a basketball game (and that includes my Jr. High School and the local YMCA :D). I don't have anything unique to say about the sterile, quiet Dean Dome that hasn't already been said. The UNC fans are as bad as the building, they don't pay attention, disrespect opponents, etc. I got to see Rodney Rogers play at the Dean Dome. Sadly UNC won the game and the people around me had no clue how good Rodgers was and when he scored it was obvious to them that UNC must have made an infrequent mistake of some sorts. That was years ago, things haven't changed as far as I can tell. I enjoyed the game at the RBC center last week mostly because I'm good with NCSU fans. They are pretty good loyal fans (you have to be loyal to stick with the Wolfpack). I have lots of friends that are Wolfpack fans. The RBC center was way too big for the crowd that was there and it was quiet. It's a fairly sterile place as well. I really liked the games I got to see in Reynolds. Had restricted view seats in Reynolds one time (I was leaning around a pole to see) and they were better than any seat in the Dome :D

9F

-bdbd
01-13-2010, 12:49 AM
I've been looking for an appropriate time to post my experience. This thread seems like a good place.

I was in Durham between 12/29 and 01/01. I had the good fortune to attend both the Long Beach St and Penn games in Cameron. Well, on 12/30, we didn't have much going on, so my wife and I decided to take in the UNC/Albany game at the Dean Dome. We had never been there and decided to take the opportunity to check it out... so that we could say we had seen a game there.

I was not impressed. The contrast with Cameron is remarkable. I can't begin to express the contrast, but I'll try.

Now, it should be noted that, being an intense Duke fan, I am biased. So, I admit that I may have a more negative impression of the Dean Dome because of my bias. But as a basketball fan in general, I thought I might enjoy seeing the Heels play at home. I was wrong.

We had seats in (what should be) a good location. I sprung for some donor seats, lower level, around the end line. Definitely in the top 30% of seats.

Man! Where do I begin?

The sight lines. They were horrible. I don't know if the slope of the stands is too gradual, but when people sat in front of us (more on that in a minute), we literally could not see the floor. These weren't particularly tall people either, but in order to see the action, we had to bob our heads back and forth trying to see around the backs of baby blue topped noggins. What's up with that? I found it weird and annoying that, by design, I couldn't see from what should have been a very good seat. Are all the seats like that? Strange.

The seats. They have spring loaded backs that spring forward when someone gets up, allowing more walking room between the rows of seats. The problem is, they lean waaaay back. And when people sat in front of us (more on that in a minute) the seat backs came crashing into our knees. Crashing is not an exaggerated term. And that was when we were sitting back in our seats with our knees as far back as possible. You have to watch out for those seats and try to put your knees to the sides to avoid a bruised kneecap. I also found that weird and annoying.

People. Again, admitting my prejudice, I was very distracted by the fans. About 5 minutes into the first half, people were coming into our section from everywhere sitting in seats for which they had no tickets. I'm not completely opposed to that, but they were yelling across the section at each other. "Dan, nobody's sitting in these two! Dan! DAN! Nobody's sitting here!!!" Meanwhile, live action is occurring on the floor, and I'm bobbing my head back and forth, trying to see around the guy in front of me, while someone in the aisle is blocking my view and yelling at Dan. It was just bizarre, especially after having been in a corner seat in Cameron the previous night. It went on the whole time we were there... people in the aisles blocking the view, people in and out of their seats crashing knees and blocking the view, people yelling at each other and talking without watching the game.

At half time... we just left. I've never walked out on a game at half time before, but that was all I could take. I couldn't see the game, so why stay? It totally, undeniably sucked, and I'll never, ever, ever go back to the Dean Dome.

The next night we were in Cameron again. We watched the game from section 17, standing first row, behind the media tables. We were so close, we almost got Zoubeked once. We could see everything, hear the sneakers squeak on the floor. We were right there. Everyone... and I mean every single soul in our area was utterly focused on the game. Any yelling was yelling about basketball. It was incredible, exhilarating, perfect. Our spirits were renewed.

Anyone who touts the Dean Dome as being better than Cameron is a freaking idiot, and should be told that. Again, I'm biased a bit, but I'm also a basketball fan, who comes to a game to see the game. Cameron has no equal among the places I've been. Cameron doesn't even have any peers. It's an arena for watching and experiencing the best game in the world.

In Cameron, the game is all that matters.

That was a great story, and I must say that my experiences there have been similar. It just isn't an ENJOYABLE place to watch a game -- quiet, poor sight lines, little fan enthusiasm/cohesion, no sense of "interaction" with the players, no spontaneity, etc., etc.

I've been in many college and pro arenas, and NOTHING compares with the intensity, energy, intimacy, creativity and simple tradition of CIS. MD's Cole and especially now Comcast get pretty darned loud for many games, but Comcast is just too darned big to have any intimacy with the players/game. UVA's new stadium is very nice, but not very intense (and of course little tradition). GaTech is small, akin to CIS, but the round shape is just weird, and the fans don't seem as creative or consistently intense (but still much louder than the Dean Dome). I liked going to games at (NCSU) the old Reynolds Coliseum, which was much like Duke (though 75% of the seats were beyond the end lines) and RBC has the feel of a "Pro" arena...sigh. (BTW, if you want to get a Wolfpacker riled up, just ask him about the politics in the North Carolina legislature that went into deciding the size of the RBC. Hint: Apparently UNC-grad politicians wouldn't approve the state funds for it until they dropped a couple thousand seats, to make it smaller than Dean's dome... Stunningly petty.) Boston College's gym is not all that different looking than Cameron, and is an older gym too, but obviously lacks the history, intensity and tradition of CIS. Syracuse is fun, but way too cavernous to compare (it is part of their doimed football stadium/field). Stanford was fun too (and Berkeley and Pauley (sp?)), as the fans were clever/creative, but not as intense, and is clearly a multi-use gym, with the court cluttered with lines for volleyball matches, etc. It actually reminded me of Carmichael, which I KNOW many Tarheel fans truly miss. None of the many NBA arenas I've seen are remotely like the CIS experience, at all.

***** My typical retorts to that sort of (UNC) prodding are usually:

1. Wow, you're kidding right?? You'd really rather watch a game in the DD than in CIS?? Wow! (This is the best response: just treat it as they MUST be joking, as no serious person would honestly prefer than mausoleum to a rockin' CIS.)

2. ESPN and SI rank CIS among the best few sports venues in the nation. And nope, 'didn't see the DD on any of those lists...

3. So bigger is always better, right? Quantity over quality? Yeah, right.
(Follow-up: "So all the pro areans and Kentucky and the Orange Dome (Syr) and Georgetown (plays at Verizon Center in downtown DC) must be tons better than the Dean Dome by virtue of size, right?)

4. (As has been pointed out already...) Since UNC@CH sold out to the money, and all the geriatric big donors sit courtside, while most students sit up in the rafters, UNC has one of the WORST SEATING ARRANGEMENTS FOR STUDENTS - who these games are supposedly for, right? - IN THE ENTIRE ACC. Schools like GA Tech, UVA, MD, Wake, Clemson all do much better by/for the students -- and as a result have at least a modicum of intensity compared with the moribund DD. Carmichael at UNC had a really odd shape to it, but at least felt like a college gym, and was fairly loud - certainly for Duke and NCSU...)

5. Lastly, a questioon to leave them with: Since Duke clearly has made a ton of money off of BB over the years, and UNC@CH fans like to portray us as "a rich kids school" (BTW, has any Tarheel fan EVER produced any evidence of such? Not in my experiences...), then Duke obviously COULD build a big dome like that, but they haven't. So YOU fill in the blank --- why do you THINK they have chosen not to replace CIS with a Dome????

Hey, quality and intensity over quantity and whine/cheese any day!

:D:D:D

uh_no
01-13-2010, 01:54 AM
Not even all of the Cameron games are filled, so for Duke's size it's a perfect fit, and it makes it THE BEST atmosphere to experience in college basketball.

http://www.examiner.com/x-32838-Raleigh-Sports-Examiner~y2010m1d3-ACC-basketball-action-in-RaleighDurham---Cameron-Indoor-Stadium-turns-70

the arena's nearly 300 game sell out streak begs to differ....

flyingdutchdevil
01-13-2010, 05:13 AM
http://www.examiner.com/x-32838-Raleigh-Sports-Examiner~y2010m1d3-ACC-basketball-action-in-RaleighDurham---Cameron-Indoor-Stadium-turns-70

the arena's nearly 300 game sell out streak begs to differ....

I think he's referring to the student section, which can get "spacey," for lack of a better word, when he play extremely inferior opponents or during the holiday period. Duke seems to have done a better job with this of late, as I was fairly impressed with the holiday crowd that I saw on TV.

oldnavy
01-13-2010, 07:23 AM
http://www.examiner.com/x-32838-Raleigh-Sports-Examiner~y2010m1d3-ACC-basketball-action-in-RaleighDurham---Cameron-Indoor-Stadium-turns-70

the arena's nearly 300 game sell out streak begs to differ....

Sell outs and rear ends in seats are two different things. I have been to probably over 200 games at Cameron, all of which were sold out and seen empty seats at just about every game. Some times people will have purchased the ticket but don't make it to the game and do not re-sell the ticket or give it away. Not diminishing the sell out streak, but there is a difference.

Any way, my wife and one of my sons as I have said many times are die-hard tar hole fans. They go to at least one game a year at the DD. Every year they come home with the same complaint, the crowd was awful! They tell me that they are the only ones in their section actually cheering for the team. Most of the folks, like others have described are talking about other things and not watching the game.

I took my misguided son with me to the Duke/Georgetown game at CIS and he could not believe the difference in the crowd and intensity. Now this is a kid who HATES everything DUKE (mom's bad influence), but he gave CIS the ultimate teenage compliment... when I asked him what he thought, he said "COOL".

If you have a UNC fan tell you that the DD is better to watch a game or that CIS is this or that, just walk away. I have heard that "when you find yourself in an argument with an idiot, make sure that they are not doing the same"

formerdukeathlete
01-13-2010, 07:43 AM
when Duke does build a new arena, since we will be replacing an arena that works very well, is very well liked, you can bet that the new arena will be very well thought out in terms of size, sightlines, amenities.

Metaphorically, in the arena building boom, approaches started with 4:3 letter box apperture televisions with digital receivers, then the same with high definition - 720p equivalent, then to wide flat screens with 720p plasma, then finally to LED backlit 1080p. When Duke builds a new one, it will be the 3D TV equivalent of today's emerging arena format and technology.

Duke has the land. UNC will always be more constrained in that regard.

Indoor66
01-13-2010, 09:28 AM
when Duke does build a new arena, since we will be replacing an arena that works very well, is very well liked, you can bet that the new arena will be very well thought out in terms of size, sightlines, amenities.

Metaphorically, in the arena building boom, approaches started with 4:3 letter box apperture televisions with digital receivers, then the same with high definition - 720p equivalent, then to wide flat screens with 720p plasma, then finally to LED backlit 1080p. When Duke builds a new one, it will be the 3D TV equivalent of today's emerging arena format and technology.

Duke has the land. UNC will always be more constrained in that regard.

I have absolutely no idea what this post is trying to say.

CameronBornAndBred
01-13-2010, 09:39 AM
http://www.examiner.com/x-32838-Raleigh-Sports-Examiner~y2010m1d3-ACC-basketball-action-in-RaleighDurham---Cameron-Indoor-Stadium-turns-70

the arena's nearly 300 game sell out streak begs to differ....
Selling out and showing up are two different things. Not everyone upstairs shows up for the lesser games. It's not a knock against Duke, it happens in all sports. But when your venue is the size of the Dean dome, the ratio of abscences is much more noticeable.

pamtar
01-13-2010, 09:41 AM
Great post jacone21!


It's pretty much the U.S. Cellular Field of college basketball.

LMAO:D

Not only does their stadium suck, their cellular service is for the birds!

Acymetric
01-13-2010, 09:43 AM
Selling out and showing up are two different things. Not everyone upstairs shows up for the lesser games. It's not a knock against Duke, it happens in all sports. But when your venue is the size of the Dean dome, the ratio of abscences is much more noticeable.

Interestingly, the blue paint they have on the seats now makes pockets of empty seats a lot less noticeable. Not sure if that was intentional, but its definitely an improvement...sort of like that time they taped little duke bags to seats all around Wallace Wade...made the place look like attendance was much higher than it was.

nyr484
01-13-2010, 12:11 PM
I've been looking for an appropriate time to post my experience. This thread seems like a good place.

I was in Durham between 12/29 and 01/01. I had the good fortune to attend both the Long Beach St and Penn games in Cameron. Well, on 12/30, we didn't have much going on, so my wife and I decided to take in the UNC/Albany game at the Dean Dome. We had never been there and decided to take the opportunity to check it out... so that we could say we had seen a game there.

I was not impressed. The contrast with Cameron is remarkable. I can't begin to express the contrast, but I'll try.

Now, it should be noted that, being an intense Duke fan, I am biased. So, I admit that I may have a more negative impression of the Dean Dome because of my bias. But as a basketball fan in general, I thought I might enjoy seeing the Heels play at home. I was wrong.

We had seats in (what should be) a good location. I sprung for some donor seats, lower level, around the end line. Definitely in the top 30% of seats.

Man! Where do I begin?

The sight lines. They were horrible. I don't know if the slope of the stands is too gradual, but when people sat in front of us (more on that in a minute), we literally could not see the floor. These weren't particularly tall people either, but in order to see the action, we had to bob our heads back and forth trying to see around the backs of baby blue topped noggins. What's up with that? I found it weird and annoying that, by design, I couldn't see from what should have been a very good seat. Are all the seats like that? Strange.

The seats. They have spring loaded backs that spring forward when someone gets up, allowing more walking room between the rows of seats. The problem is, they lean waaaay back. And when people sat in front of us (more on that in a minute) the seat backs came crashing into our knees. Crashing is not an exaggerated term. And that was when we were sitting back in our seats with our knees as far back as possible. You have to watch out for those seats and try to put your knees to the sides to avoid a bruised kneecap. I also found that weird and annoying.

People. Again, admitting my prejudice, I was very distracted by the fans. About 5 minutes into the first half, people were coming into our section from everywhere sitting in seats for which they had no tickets. I'm not completely opposed to that, but they were yelling across the section at each other. "Dan, nobody's sitting in these two! Dan! DAN! Nobody's sitting here!!!" Meanwhile, live action is occurring on the floor, and I'm bobbing my head back and forth, trying to see around the guy in front of me, while someone in the aisle is blocking my view and yelling at Dan. It was just bizarre, especially after having been in a corner seat in Cameron the previous night. It went on the whole time we were there... people in the aisles blocking the view, people in and out of their seats crashing knees and blocking the view, people yelling at each other and talking without watching the game.

At half time... we just left. I've never walked out on a game at half time before, but that was all I could take. I couldn't see the game, so why stay? It totally, undeniably sucked, and I'll never, ever, ever go back to the Dean Dome.

The next night we were in Cameron again. We watched the game from section 17, standing first row, behind the media tables. We were so close, we almost got Zoubeked once. We could see everything, hear the sneakers squeak on the floor. We were right there. Everyone... and I mean every single soul in our area was utterly focused on the game. Any yelling was yelling about basketball. It was incredible, exhilarating, perfect. Our spirits were renewed.

Anyone who touts the Dean Dome as being better than Cameron is a freaking idiot, and should be told that. Again, I'm biased a bit, but I'm also a basketball fan, who comes to a game to see the game. Cameron has no equal among the places I've been. Cameron doesn't even have any peers. It's an arena for watching and experiencing the best game in the world.

In Cameron, the game is all that matters.


Great post. AND, the game you attended was over winter break. The atmosphere is even better when school is in session and the student section is full of current students.

RaineyDevil
01-13-2010, 02:20 PM
A good friend of mine is in grad school at UNC and has been a diehard fan his entire life. He signs up for the lottery every year for tickets and if he doesn't get in the lower level student section he doesn't bother going. His direct quote was: "unless you are in the bottom section, the seats are worthless"

....'nuff said

DU82
01-13-2010, 03:24 PM
(BTW, if you want to get a Wolfpacker riled up, just ask him about the politics in the North Carolina legislature that went into deciding the size of the RBC. Hint: Apparently UNC-grad politicians wouldn't approve the state funds for it until they dropped a couple thousand seats, to make it smaller than Dean's dome... Stunningly petty.)
:D:D:D

Sorry to have to disagree here, but I do not believe the state legislature had anything to do with the design or even the funding (outside the standard work on the general UNC system budget.) The City/County built the building via sales tax revenue (an extra 1% on prepared meals in Wake County.) If a recall an early plan that I reviewed correctly, the original design of the ESA actually had MORE seats than the DESSAC (that's the Dean E. Smith Student Activities Center.) The seating bowl was changed because of the Hurricanes, not because of a vote or pressure by the legislature. (It didn't have a great affect on the traffic impacts of the site, though, so no change in our review/design of the reversible lane system on Edwards Mill Road.)

Good story, but just an urban legend.

Duke Parent 06
01-13-2010, 03:50 PM
At the Dean Dome you can do that from the top row of the upper deck.:D

Sound is different at the Dean Dome depending on directionality. Sitting in the stands you won't hear sneakers on the floor, but Ol Roy can hear you talking to Deon in the last row.

Exiled_Devil
01-13-2010, 06:50 PM
You know how many heels fans long for the days of Carmichael again? I don't, but I bet everyone who had those season tickets back then wishes they still were playing there instead of the barren cavern of the Dean Dome. unc sold out to the money crowd, and their home games suffer for it. Granted, Duke would never sell as many tickets as they do for the dome, but Duke doesn't have the alumni base to do it, either. Not even all of the Cameron games are filled, so for Duke's size it's a perfect fit, and it makes it THE BEST atmosphere to experience in college basketball.

Cameron is sold out for every home game. There may be empty seats, but they are all sold.

CameronBornAndBred
01-13-2010, 08:33 PM
Cameron is sold out for every home game. There may be empty seats, but they are all sold.
Scroll up for the answers to that.

Bostondevil
01-14-2010, 12:15 AM
Recently I loaded up the hubby plus all 4 sons and took them to see Harvard play George Washington. Now there's a high school gym masquerading as a D1 facility. On the plus side though, there are no bad seats and 6 tickets sell for $51. And hey, we got to see Tommy Amaker! Harvard won behind a stellar performance by All-America candidate Jeremy Lin. You could do worse.

(There is no crowd excitement at a Harvard game. I got the boys to do one round of "Defense! Clap, clap" late in the game but that was it for organized cheering.)

BlueDevilCorvette!
01-14-2010, 11:06 AM
Man I could have sworn that last night against BC when one of BC's players was checking the ball in from the sideline directly in front of the Cameron Crazies, that some of the Crazies hands were waving literally inches from his head! That BC player had a WTF look on his face...that was priceless...I'd love to see a pic of that. No where else can you see a fan display like that other than Cameron! Wow, I got to get to a game someday...this is high on my Bucketlist!