Collins and Depaul

[CameronBornAndBred]

Good to see Collins' name mentioned for the HC job at DePaul, but I don't agree with the front page article suggestion that he wouldn't go midseason. True...it's lousy timing on DePaul's part to fire Wainwright before the season is over, but if they are going to hire a replacement before the season is out, why wouldn't you want to go ahead and get an early start? Moving early affects recruiting more than it will the outcome of their season, and if I know my team is going to struggle next year to, I want to be there ASAP so I can start talking to kids about the ship having a new captain. Plus, an early move gives that much more time for the current team to get to know Collins and his style, and vice versa. But more than anything, I'd do it for the recruiting.

[houstondukie]

Good to see Collins' name mentioned for the HC job at DePaul, but I don't agree with the front page article suggestion that he wouldn't go midseason. True...it's lousy timing on DePaul's part to fire Wainwright before the season is over, but if they are going to hire a replacement before the season is out, why wouldn't you want to go ahead and get an early start? Moving early affects recruiting more than it will the outcome of their season, and if I know my team is going to struggle next year to, I want to be there ASAP so I can start talking to kids about the ship having a new captain. Plus, an early move gives that much more time for the current team to get to know Collins and his style, and vice versa. But more than anything, I'd do it for the recruiting.

Maybe because he is loyal to Duke, Coach K, and the players we have, and doesn't want to abandon ship midseason.

[Acymetric]

Maybe because he is loyal to Duke, Coach K, and the players we have, and doesn't want to abandon ship midseason.

I'm not sure its really "abandoning." I'm quite sure Coach K, the staff, the players, and maybe even the recruits would understand and support Collins if he wanted to take a coaching position midseason.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Maybe because he is loyal to Duke, Coach K, and the players we have, and doesn't want to abandon ship midseason.
I'm pretty sure if Collins were to leave the program is still in good hands. And I'm sure the entire Duke coaching staff understands that getting a good start is vital to the next year's success. Also see it from DePaul's point of view. Would you be happy if your new coach put you off until you finished the year with your "old" team?

[WiJoe]

Tracy Webster is the interim coach.

[MHTorringjan]

Are they really talking about a coach coming in to replace the interim coach in the middle of the season now? The article on ESPN quoted the AD saying that they would be beginning their search at the end of the season. I suspect that speculation with regards to Collins leaving mid-season for a coaching gig might be a bit off.

I was a bit disappointed that Wainwright was fired, as a UNCW alum, but hopefully he'll find a better situation than the one that he inherited at DePaul.

[Jim3k]

From DePaul's POV, choosing an assistant from another school else would be more do-able than trying to lure a head coach mid-season.

Evne so, they'd be taking a chance on such an assistant because the vetting process would be too quick. Instead, what they, and most schools do, is get rid of the HC and choose one of his assistants. It throws the current season under the bus, but allows for a longer, and more complete, search.

Collins might well be a candidate for DePaul, but I'd bet on Lowrey. He's a proven HC. The question for him would be whether he'd regard DePaul as a step up. Still, if the money was significantly better, he'd probably go. Probably true of Jacobson as well.

That's why a valued assistant like Collins could be in the running at the end of the year, but not now. It's a step up for him, but DePaul wouldn't have to give him the large raise it would take to induce a current HC to leave his current job. In fact, approaching HCs might give the HCs leverage for a raise at their current school, leading to DePaul whiffing. They don't want to spin their wheels like that and would try to avoid it.

[BD80]

Recruiting would be key. What 2010 recruits are unsigned? Particularly recruits from the Chicago area or that CC has been involved with.

How about potential transfers? There are two that could turn the program around fairly quickly: Czyz and Echenique.

I think DePaul is a great place for Chris, he could recruit the heck out of that area while also offering Big East competition and exposure. He need merely get one or two recruits each year that would have gone to Marquette, IU, UI, NW, Purdue, OSU, Iowa or Notre Dame to build a contender. I'll bet a couple of transfers would fall his way from those schools because of available playing time.

To get Chris the DePaul AD would have to promise better facilities. I'll bet Coach K would help with that pitch.

[Turtleboy]

How about potential transfers? There are two that could turn the program around fairly quickly: Czyz and Echenique.They will both have to commit real soon if they want to play next spring, unless Echenique gets a medical redshirt.

[MulletMan]

How about potential transfers? There are two that could turn the program around fairly quickly: Czyz and Echenique.



:eek:

You're talking about Olek Czyz, right? You must be kidding. Look, just because the kid was recruited by and transferred from Duke, doesn't make him a 5 star recruit. There is no way that Czyz is a guy who can turn a program around. None. He may develop into a solid player at some point in the future, but the ability to dunk does not make one a great player.

There are guys at the "mid-major" level who are light years ahead of Czyz, and those guys probably aren't "program changers".

As for Collins, who can say? He's not leaving in the middle of the season. You can take that to the bank. And most schools, DePaul included, probably know that any coach worth a salt isn't jumping mid-season.

[BD80]

:eek:

You're talking about Olek Czyz, right? You must be kidding. Look, just because the kid was recruited by and transferred from Duke, doesn't make him a 5 star recruit. There is no way that Czyz is a guy who can turn a program around. None. He may develop into a solid player at some point in the future, but the ability to dunk does not make one a great player.

There are guys at the "mid-major" level who are light years ahead of Czyz, and those guys probably aren't "program changers".

As for Collins, who can say? He's not leaving in the middle of the season. You can take that to the bank. And most schools, DePaul included, probably know that any coach worth a salt isn't jumping mid-season.

I meant Olek could help turn the program around from the perspective of having been through practice the way Duke does it and has experience with the kind of sets and defenses that Chris would likely carry over. Greg would be a difference maker in terms of talent, while both should be able to lead the way academically.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Chris left mid-season. We have another CC waiting to move into the rotation: Graduate Assistant/Head Team Manager Chris Carrawell.

Except for the facilities, DePaul is an ideal situation for Chris. How about Daddy Doug as an assistant coach for the first year and a half? Quin Snyder would probably help out as well. That should help Chris get all the administrative duties squared away as well as the Xs and Os.

[Jarhead]

I'll have to agree with MulletMan. You can bank on it. Chris is not going to leave in the middle of the season. To think that he will is weak thinking. He hasn't been offered the position yet, and there is an interim coach. Chris, if offered, must decide if he wants the job first. Then if he does he can accept it, meet the team on an off night, and check in as head man after the season. My prediction, he will pull his name out of consideration very early. He can do better than DePaul.

[Mal]

I don't think Collins, if he's in his right mind, would even consider Depaul (no offense to any Depaul grads or anything). It's a school with little institutional commitment to the basketball program, with a student population that largely cares nothing about sports and is heavily commuter-oriented, with a basketball team that had a glorious run a full quarter century ago but has steadily fallen to below mediocrity since, is mired at the bottom of probably the most difficult conference in the country in which to make significant upward progress, and plays its home games in a delapidated building, that's impossible to access by public transportation, 20 miles from its urban campus (at least an hour's travel from campus during rush hour to get to a weeknight game). Not to mention that Chicago is a professional sports town that generally cares little about college hoops relative to most places. It's a losing proposition.

Pat Kennedy, with his unique combination of shady recruiting prowess and questionable coaching acumen, was able to get Quentin Richardson and a couple other players in a decade ago, but even that was unsustainable. That little run also preceeded the resurgance of Villanova, Georgetown, Louisville, Marquette, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame in the Big East, to go along with Syracuse and UConn, making reaching the upper half of the conference from the basement (0-18 last year) a virtual impossibility for the forseeable future for anyone not willing to cut a lot of corners or otherwise likely to make huge recruiting splashes immediately (both of which are not Chris Collins). Even local kids today have zero recollection of the Depaul teams of the mid-'80s, and their parents barely remember them, so there's really nothing to draw top talent there.

There have to be better head coaching opportunities for a guy who's apprenticed under Krzyzewski than that. I mean, seriously, take away the Ray Meyer years, and Depaul is basically Fordham plopped into the Big East.

[miramar]

I don't think Collins, if he's in his right mind, would even consider Depaul (no offense to any Depaul grads or anything). It's a school with little institutional commitment to the basketball program, with a student population that largely cares nothing about sports and is heavily commuter-oriented, with a basketball team that had a glorious run a full quarter century ago but has steadily fallen to below mediocrity since, is mired at the bottom of probably the most difficult conference in the country in which to make significant upward progress, and plays its home games in a delapidated building, that's impossible to access by public transportation, 20 miles from its urban campus (at least an hour's travel from campus during rush hour to get to a weeknight game). Not to mention that Chicago is a professional sports town that generally cares little about college hoops relative to most places. It's a losing proposition.

Pat Kennedy, with his unique combination of shady recruiting prowess and questionable coaching acumen, was able to get Quentin Richardson and a couple other players in a decade ago, but even that was unsustainable. That little run also preceeded the resurgance of Villanova, Georgetown, Louisville, Marquette, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame in the Big East, to go along with Syracuse and UConn, making reaching the upper half of the conference from the basement (0-18 last year) a virtual impossibility for the forseeable future for anyone not willing to cut a lot of corners or otherwise likely to make huge recruiting splashes immediately (both of which are not Chris Collins). Even local kids today have zero recollection of the Depaul teams of the mid-'80s, and their parents barely remember them, so there's really nothing to draw top talent there.

There have to be better head coaching opportunities for a guy who's apprenticed under Krzyzewski than that. I mean, seriously, take away the Ray Meyer years, and Depaul is basically Fordham plopped into the Big East.

That's about it in a nutshell. DePaul was a top job a generation ago, but now it's a graveyard for coaches.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I don't think Collins, if he's in his right mind, would even consider Depaul (no offense to any Depaul grads or anything). It's a school with little institutional commitment to the basketball program, with a student population that largely cares nothing about sports and is heavily commuter-oriented, with a basketball team that had a glorious run a full quarter century ago but has steadily fallen to below mediocrity since, is mired at the bottom of probably the most difficult conference in the country in which to make significant upward progress, and plays its home games in a delapidated building, that's impossible to access by public transportation, 20 miles from its urban campus (at least an hour's travel from campus during rush hour to get to a weeknight game).
Wow...except for the commute and the distance from campus, that sounds exactly like Duke basketball in the early to mid 70's. What the hell was Bill Foster thinking?!

[Duvall]

Wow...except for the commute and the distance from campus, that sounds exactly like Duke basketball in the early to mid 70's. What the hell was Bill Foster thinking?!

When Foster took over, Duke was eight years removed from going to three Final Fours in four years. DePaul hasn't done anything in three full decades.

[BlueintheFace]

It'll be Collins to Northwestern one day. Been saying it for years. Of course, if the opportunity never arises..... who knows

[CameronBornAndBred]

When Foster took over, Duke was eight years removed from going to three Final Fours in four years. DePaul hasn't done anything in three full decades.
Alright.."exactly" is stretching it but you have to see the similarities. Our basketball program then was in the dumper with little administrative support. Foster was taking a chance signing on at Duke. He and Tom Butters both deserve alot of credit for Duke being the Duke it is you know today.

[weezie]

DePaul hasn't done anything in three full decades.


Ugh....Mark Aguirre.....Mark Aguirre.... (shaking head)

[Duvall]

Ugh....Mark Aguirre.....Mark Aguirre.... (shaking head)

Fine, 29 years (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aguirma01.html).

[BlueintheFace]

The more I think about this, the more I think it sounds like a great opportunity for Collins and Duke Basketball. Collins has been on the bench for quite awhile now and it might be time to stretch his wings a bit. He is from chicago and very proudly so. He certainly knows the recruiting scene in Illinois (and now everywhere else under K). Meanwhile, Duke has been suffering from something of an image problem in the last few years (deserved or not), and a new face on the bench might go a long way towards solving that problem.

However, if Collins leaves, those of you expecting an outside hire might be disappointed. My best guess is that Chris Spatola or Chris Carrawell (both currently on the staff) might receive promotions of some sort. I wouldn't expect K to make a big splash in filling the assistant slot (Christian Laettner will not be our big man coach.... and K aint hiring a big man "specialist" since I think he kind of already is one, just deal).

[Mal]

Alright.."exactly" is stretching it but you have to see the similarities. Our basketball program then was in the dumper with little administrative support. Foster was taking a chance signing on at Duke. He and Tom Butters both deserve alot of credit for Duke being the Duke it is you know today.

I don't know. I see some, but I think the chances of a first time coach going into Depaul and getting the equivalent of Spanarkel, Gminski and Banks in there in the first three years are basically nil. Whether said first time coach grew up in Glenview or not. I mean, if Bruce Weber couldn't get Sheyer to head to Champaign, Collins a'int gonna get him to come to Lincoln Park. Duke's basketball history was far greater and more close in memory in the early '70s than Depaul's is today. Not to mention it actually had a permanent fan base.

As I was originally posting, I actually thought about Duke football as potentially analogous. Take away the recent commitment of the university to building something competitive and you're in a pretty similar situation. Think Duke football circa 2005, looking back well over a decade to a brief flourishing, take away the ancient success of the '30's and '40's, put the antiquated stadium a few miles from RDU instead of on campus, and drop us in the SEC. Then you've basically replicated the Depaul basketball situation.

That's not to say it'll never rise again, but if I were in Collins's or Wojo's shoes, I'd rather take a mid-major job and build to a bigger name from there. Or go to the SEC or somewhere, where it's a lot easier to win some conference games with minor talent adjustments than it is in the current Big East.

[Cameron]

I'm in the camp that says -- no, knows -- Chris Collins will not be resigning from Duke and taking the job at Depaul two games into ACC play. Like the rest of the coaching staff, the players and everyone else involved with the program, Chris has too much time, energy and emotion invested into this season, into this team and this university to up and leave Durham and our players in the middle of the night. He isn't Bob Irsay.

Chris' loyalty to Duke and to Coach is surpassed by none. Having had the opportunity to not only watch him play for the Blue & White for four years but also up close and personal at the Duke Basketball Camp many a summer, I can tell you that Chris personifies that hard working, integrity-driven and devoted Duke Blue Blue Devil image that has come to define the greatest basketball team in the land. He bleeds blue. The passion he has for this program is rarely seen anywhere else. I know I don't see it on benches elsewhere. I think it's a big reason why he's never seriously considered leaving, even after 10 successful seasons as a one of the brightest assistant coaches in the country, on the most spotlight-laden team in the country.

There is no way Chris would ever quit on his players, his Coach, his program, after half a season.

[WiJoe]

Check this out. Check out No. 1. SHOCKER! Bang for buck?
DePaul at No. 15.
:eek:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-12-depaul-chartjan12,0,4175959.story

Here's how much each Big East school spent on men's basketball from July 2008 to June 2009, according to U.S. Department of Education data:


1. Marquette $10,306,548
2. Louisville $8,625,245
3. Syracuse $7,784,244
4. Georgetown $7,405,214
5. Connecticut $6,796,942
6. Villanova $5,959,931
7. West Virginia $5,963,760
8. Pittsburgh $5,337,512
9. Seton Hall $5,200,805
10. St. John's $4,729,555
11. Providence $4,637,423
12. Notre Dame $4,380,691
13. Cincinnati $4,011,357
14. Rutgers $3,793,356
15. DePaul $3,257,409
16. South Florida $2,927,362

[WiJoe]

... I suspect that speculation with regards to Collins leaving mid-season for a coaching gig might be a bit off.

I would say the speculation is ALL THE WAY OFF.

[left_hook_lacey]

Tracy Webster is the interim coach.

Naming an interem coach is the protocol here. It's the more practical way to ride it out. The new coach would have all summer to recruit, just like any other coach.