Lost: The Final Season

[JasonEvans]

Thought I would get a thread going, now that we are less than a month away.

I was inspired by this story in Variety (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118013523.html?categoryid=14&cs=1&ref=bd_tv&ref=mv) today. The headline says, "Is 'Lost' here to stay? ABC may not give up on franchise so easily."

I was furious and worried that ABC was demanding that the show go on for additional seasons. All the talk that we were building to a conclusion was for nothing. I was furious. But, they are still planning on ending the show. The story is just saying that ABC wants to see if there are ways to build off the final season with other things like comic books, books, games, and even amusement park rides. Whew!

There is also talk of "Lost: The Nent Generation" and compares the show to Star Trek. I am not sure it works in the same way. We'll see what they come up with.

As an aside, I found this part of the story really cool--


For the final season, ABC has kept its marketing campaign close to the vest. Promos and clips have utilized footage from past seasons only -- but that will change a week before "Lost's" Feb. 2 season premiere, as 815 fans give the correct answer to "Lost" trivia online and receive a message in a bottle.

That bottle will include a USB drive that features a clip from the season's first episode. The network is fully expecting that clip to then quickly go viral online.


--Jason "http://a330.g.akamai.net/7/330/23382/20100108214210/www.variety.com/graphics/photos/_storypics/lostbottle.jpg" Evans

[YourLandlord]

Quickly go viral online? They don't need that dorky promotion to accomplish that, just post it on their website and Lost fans will watch.

A "viral" video is something that people watch because it's amusing or intriguing to anyone and everyone. A Lost video isn't "viral", it's just a preview that Lost fans will watch...the method of delivery won't add or subtract viewers.

---

I am curious to see how the story line unfolds this last season. Watching the episodes last season, I found myself drifting to other things as opposed to watching every single frame...I was more interested in the general path of the story than each minute of each episode.

[snowdenscold]

I'm rewatching Season 5 (in Bluray!) in anticipation of the last one. Got thru the first 8 episodes this weekend...

[alteran]

Definitely amped up for the last season.

[Wander]

Almost guarantee that the clip is a scene in the Los Angeles airport.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

My brother-in-law was knocking out Seasons 1&2 over Christmas via Netflix streaming, I watched a bunch of episodes I hadn't seen in awhile. I got a little misty eyed when Charlie appeared.

I forgot how awesome the episode where they get in the hatch was (season 2 premiere I think). Also, some of the fun is missing as he doesn't have an active fan community dissecting each screen capture. I got him recording and playing Walt's out of body messages backwards, but I don't think he'll be researching Egyptian hieroglyphics anytime soon.

For anyone hosting a Lost party in Feb....
http://maxpictures.com/weblog/2007/04/10/lost-labels-for-your-dharma-initiative-needs/

[alteran]

My brother-in-law was knocking out Seasons 1&2 over Christmas via Netflix streaming, I watched a bunch of episodes I hadn't seen in awhile. I got a little misty eyed when Charlie appeared.

I forgot how awesome the episode where they get in the hatch was (season 2 premiere I think). Also, some of the fun is missing as he doesn't have an active fan community dissecting each screen capture. I got him recording and playing Walt's out of body messages backwards, but I don't think he'll be researching Egyptian hieroglyphics anytime soon.

For anyone hosting a Lost party in Feb....
http://maxpictures.com/weblog/2007/04/10/lost-labels-for-your-dharma-initiative-needs/

Nice. I think these are too good NOT to use. Thanks!

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

A part of me wants ABC to come up with a spin off series because i love lost that much. But at the same time I would want it to be on Lost's level or higher, and the chances of that are very slim.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

A part of me wants ABC to come up with a spin off series because i love lost that much. But at the same time I would want it to be on Lost's level or higher, and the chances of that are very slim.

Maybe an action adventure show called 'Desmond'? It'd be fantastic, brother.

[YourLandlord]

Maybe an action adventure show called 'Desmond'? It'd be fantastic, brother.

Charlie could host an American Idol-type show
Kate: America's Next Top Model-type show
Locke: Suvivorman
Jack: Grey's Anatomy/ER/Scrubs
Hurley: Biggest Loser
Jin: Iron Chef

Heck, they could make this an entire network.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Charlie could host an American Idol-type show
Kate: America's Next Top Model-type show
Locke: Suvivorman
Jack: Grey's Anatomy/ER/Scrubs
Hurley: Biggest Loser
Jin: Iron Chef

Heck, they could make this an entire network.
How about Survivor: Lost

Put 'em all up against one another for a million bucks! Wouldn't the alliances be interesting!

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

Maybe an action adventure show called 'Desmond'? It'd be fantastic, brother.

Idk about that. Maybe in another lifetime brother:D

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

How about Survivor: Lost

Put 'em all up against one another for a million bucks! Wouldn't the alliances be interesting!

Sayid wins or maybe Horrace.....No way Jack wins, his co-stars probably hate him for being the star of the show.

[JasonEvans]

How about Survivor: Lost

Put 'em all up against one another for a million bucks! Wouldn't the alliances be interesting!

Kate would keep on switching Alliances from Sawyer to Jack.

You know Ben would win. Everyone would vote for him without even knowing why they did it.

-Jason

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Did anyone see the 30 minute show on ABC on Saturday afternoon at 4:30 on the coming season? I noticed it while channel surfing and watched it after the football games. Didn't reveal anything we didn't know, but it was fun to watch.

[snowdenscold]

Kate would keep on switching Alliances from Sawyer to Jack.

You know Ben would win. Everyone would vote for him without even knowing why they did it.

-Jason

They would actually think it's their idea. (referencing Ben to Locke re: Hurley)

[2535Miles]

Quickly go viral online? They don't need that dorky promotion to accomplish that, just post it on their website and Lost fans will watch.

A "viral" video is something that people watch because it's amusing or intriguing to anyone and everyone. A Lost video isn't "viral", it's just a preview that Lost fans will watch...the method of delivery won't add or subtract viewers.

---

I am curious to see how the story line unfolds this last season. Watching the episodes last season, I found myself drifting to other things as opposed to watching every single frame...I was more interested in the general path of the story than each minute of each episode.
I think you might be misunderstanding the meaning and value of viral marketing. None, and I repeat none of the viral videos have been amusing or intriguing to anyone and everyone. They're amusing or intriguing to large demographic but not anyone and everyone. The Lost clip will not only serve that same purpose, but it'll be one cool collector item if Lost is your thing.

[YourLandlord]

I think you might be misunderstanding the meaning and value of viral marketing. None, and I repeat none of the viral videos have been amusing or intriguing to anyone and everyone. They're amusing or intriguing to large demographic but not anyone and everyone. The Lost clip will not only serve that same purpose, but it'll be one cool collector item if Lost is your thing.

yeah, that's exactly what i was saying. "viral" videos appeal to nearly anyone and nearly everyone (is that better?), or at least a huge group of people with diverse interests.

some random person who has never seen lost isn't going to watch the trailer for something they're 5 years behind on. it's only interesting to the people that are already excited for the last season. thus, it's not "viral"

[2535Miles]

yeah, that's exactly what i was saying. "viral" videos appeal to nearly anyone and nearly everyone (is that better?), or at least a huge group of people with diverse interests.

some random person who has never seen lost isn't going to watch the trailer for something they're 5 years behind on. it's only interesting to the people that are already excited for the last season. thus, it's not "viral"
Viral campaigns do not require the mass distribution to the entire world, they can focus on a target demographic (Lost viewers). Videos become viral when one person sends to five, and then each of them sends to four of five, and then each of them sends to four or five people.

Will the video have the same viewing numbers as "Charlie Bit Me" or that little kid all hopped on drugs from after a trip to the dentist? Probably not, but it will still be viral. I think it's a genius idea.

[YourLandlord]

I think it's a genius idea.

This is where I disagree.

It's a series with a large following.

All they need to do is stick the video on their website -- most Lost fans will watch it.

There is nothing "viral" about that. It's just like people watching the Avatar movie trailer -- that wasn't "viral", it was just a largely-anticipated event.

[snowdenscold]

Have the producers come out with any sort of list of things that they're willing to admit are not going to be answered / deprecated by more recent developments?

Obviously when doing stuff in season 1-3 when you have no idea how long the show is going to go for, you introduce many many things and it's impossible to tie up 100% of the loose ends. It would be nice if they were willing to say "yeah, you're going to have to just ignore X, Y and Z" as we concentrate on filling in all the gaps this last season. Obviously it's not ideal, but I'm willing to accept it as realistic.

[2535Miles]

This is where I disagree.

It's a series with a large following.

All they need to do is stick the video on their website -- most Lost fans will watch it.

There is nothing "viral" about that. It's just like people watching the Avatar movie trailer -- that wasn't "viral", it was just a largely-anticipated event.
Right on, but the slight difference is that they're giving the file to a person, who then has to give it to another person. Another way to look at it, ABC won't be distributing the video to their fan base like the Avatar movie trailer, the viewers/fans will distribute it. That's where the viral campaign begins.

[2535Miles]

Have the producers come out with any sort of list of things that they're willing to admit are not going to be answered / deprecated by more recent developments?

Obviously when doing stuff in season 1-3 when you have no idea how long the show is going to go for, you introduce many many things and it's impossible to tie up 100% of the loose ends. It would be nice if they were willing to say "yeah, you're going to have to just ignore X, Y and Z" as we concentrate on filling in all the gaps this last season. Obviously it's not ideal, but I'm willing to accept it as realistic.
Only thing I've seen so far is that Libby will be back for the season.

[JasonEvans]

Have the producers come out with any sort of list of things that they're willing to admit are not going to be answered / deprecated by more recent developments?

Obviously when doing stuff in season 1-3 when you have no idea how long the show is going to go for, you introduce many many things and it's impossible to tie up 100% of the loose ends. It would be nice if they were willing to say "yeah, you're going to have to just ignore X, Y and Z" as we concentrate on filling in all the gaps this last season. Obviously it's not ideal, but I'm willing to accept it as realistic.

I think they have said before that "the numbers" will never be fully explained.

I suspect that we have learned everything we are going to learn about the Dharma Initiative, Polar Bears, and the various hatches/stations all over the island.

I bet we are pretty much done with "The Others" except for some history on Richard. I supect we will never find out what Ben's "lists" were about nor will we find out why the Others grabbed some folks or wore fake beards or anything like that.

I doubt we find out why babies cannot be born on the island.

Then again, I am just guessing and gthey may have answers for all this stuff planned.

-Jason "a lot of stuff will be explained by Jacob creating coincidences in order to drive people to the island" Evans

[NYC Duke Fan]

Only thing I've seen so far is that Libby will be back for the season.

I am having a senior moment. Could you refresh my recollection and remind me who Libby was .

Thanks.

[Pacer]

Could you refresh my recollection and remind me who Libby was.

If you are serious: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Elizabeth_%22Libby%22_Smith

[2535Miles]

Totally serious (http://www.wcnc.com/news/entertainment/81248462.html).
I hope Hurley scores!

[snowdenscold]

OK I just finished rewatching Season 5 w/ my fiancee and am now upset we didn't start a little later. (I thought it would take longer to get thru the entire thing) Now I'm realllllly anxious for season 6 to start and have to just twiddle my thumbs for a couple weeks.

[DukeUsul]

OK I just finished rewatching Season 5 w/ my fiancee and am now upset we didn't start a little later. (I thought it would take longer to get thru the entire thing) Now I'm realllllly anxious for season 6 to start and have to just twiddle my thumbs for a couple weeks.

Oh we all feel soooooooo bad for you. :D:D:D

[alteran]

OK I just finished rewatching Season 5 w/ my fiancee and am now upset we didn't start a little later. (I thought it would take longer to get thru the entire thing) Now I'm realllllly anxious for season 6 to start and have to just twiddle my thumbs for a couple weeks.

:D

Made the same mistake between seasons 2-3.

Watched the pilot and the whole first season in about 2 weeks. Watched the second season over the next month.

Really, REALLY learned to appreciate what people were going through waiting week to week over the intervening 4 years.

But since I'd been a Soprano's fan, this was old hat.

[DevilAlumna]

OK I just finished rewatching Season 5 w/ my fiancee

Hey, congrats! :)

[snowdenscold]

Hey, congrats! :)

Thanks =)

[Wander]

So, can we start making predictions/bets now?

My guess for Claire is that she returns as the leader of the Others, or maybe even Jacob's replacement. I also think that she, Jack, and Aaron are all descendants of Jacob. I am not sure exactly what is up with Aaron, but I like the idea that he represents some sort of threat to the unnamed evil rival. There's a lot of characters with children now, I wonder if any other than Aaron end up being important (Ji Yeon, Charlie, Clementine).

I bet A LOT of characters die. Maybe even all of them, and maybe the island itself. Hurley has the best chance of survival, of course. Sayid is my guess for the first big one to go, he seems pretty expendable at this point, but I also wouldn't be surprised is Sun or Jin died right before they would be reunited (they seem to like killing someone during a happy reunion moment - Shannon, Charlie). Of course Rose and Bernard have to be the pick for Adam and Eve, but other possibilities exist.

I think the first episode or few episodes will introduce the alternate reality that they've been heavily hinting at, but it will all turn it to be an illusion or something.

Oh, and there's definitely a second monster that's made of light instead of smoke and controlled by Jacob.

[airowe]

My guess for Claire is that she returns as the leader of the Others, or maybe even Jacob's replacement. I also think that she, Jack, and Aaron are all descendants of Jacob.

So, you think Jack's Dad is Jacob incarnate? I agree.


I am not sure exactly what is up with Aaron, but I like the idea that he represents some sort of threat to the unnamed evil rival. There's a lot of characters with children now, I wonder if any other than Aaron end up being important (Ji Yeon, Charlie, Clementine).

I think we're going to see a lot of Walt this season. In fact, I think he will either save the island from demise or be the one to put it to bed once and for all...


I bet A LOT of characters die. Maybe even all of them, and maybe the island itself. Hurley has the best chance of survival, of course. Sayid is my guess for the first big one to go, he seems pretty expendable at this point, but I also wouldn't be surprised is Sun or Jin died right before they would be reunited (they seem to like killing someone during a happy reunion moment - Shannon, Charlie). Of course Rose and Bernard have to be the pick for Adam and Eve, but other possibilities exist.

There have to be some deaths, with the way the show has progressed, they haven't been afraid to kill some beloved characters. However, what does death really mean on the island? A lot of characters have "died" but still been around in various shapes/forms. Locke "died" on the mainland, but then was reincarnated once he came back to the island.


I think the first episode or few episodes will introduce the alternate reality that they've been heavily hinting at, but it will all turn it to be an illusion or something.

If this is some sort of illusion/dream I'm gonna be pissed.


Oh, and there's definitely a second monster that's made of light instead of smoke and controlled by Jacob.

Why do you say?

[Wander]

If this is some sort of illusion/dream I'm gonna be pissed.


Well, they're really heavily hinting at some kind of alternate timeline being present. If this didn't occur in some form, it would be somewhere between a massive red herring and blatant dishonesty on the show's producers part.

But on the other hand, if Juliet really did reset the timeline, there'd be no point to having a Season 6, right? There'd be no point to the entire show, really. So the only thing I see left is to have the appearance of resetting the timeline. I suppose they could do a parallel universe thing where both timelines exist and we follow each of them, but I think that'd be a little silly, even for Lost.



Why do you say?

Smokey seems to be somehow tied to the evil rival villain. So, Jacob should have one too to keep the duality going. This fits with Locke's description of the Monster in Season 1 - he said he saw it as a beautiful bright light.

[DukeUsul]

What alternate timeline are we talking about?

[JasonEvans]

What alternate timeline are we talking about?

One where the plane does not crash because the hatch does not exist because a nuke destroyed the electromagnetic pulse.

-Jason

[OZZIE4DUKE]

What alternate timeline are we talking about?


One where the plane does not crash because the hatch does not exist because a nuke destroyed the electromagnetic pulse.

-Jason
Then there wouldn't be any show, would there.

[pfrduke]

Then there wouldn't be any show, would there.

Whoa man. That's deep. :) The truth about the show is that there is no show. I think I just bent a spoon.....

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

Ahh man, I get it guys, the point of the show is there is no show, we haven't been watching Lost because Lost doesn't exist. I think we're on to something.

[Pacer]

One where the plane does not crash because the hatch does not exist because a nuke destroyed the electromagnetic pulse.


But... as we learned from Desmond's attempts to save Charlie... the universe has a way of self-correcting...

[DukeUsul]

Yeah I just don't see it going there (the alternate timeline). "What happened, happened." They've been talking about "the incident" for a few seasons. I think it's much more likely that the nuclear blast IS the incident, that it actually doesn't destroy the nascent hatch, the island, etc., through some extraordinary mechanism of the island.

[JasonEvans]

Yeah I just don't see it going there (the alternate timeline). "What happened, happened." They've been talking about "the incident" for a few seasons. I think it's much more likely that the nuclear blast IS the incident, that it actually doesn't destroy the nascent hatch, the island, etc., through some extraordinary mechanism of the island.

We don't even know if the nuke went off. Juliet hit it with the rock a few times and then the show flashed to white.

I think they may do something where there is an alternate timeline in which the plane never crashes but the Lostaways still have memories of the being on the island or something like that.

Uuuggghhhh. Now that I read that scenario out loud, it sorta sucks. Blech!

All I know is that there have been numerous reports that this season starts with the Lostaways getting off Oceanic 815 in the LA Airport. In fact, the title of the first episode is LAX.

I put some spoiler text over a few words above if folks really, really do not want to know. The stuff I spoiler texted has been reported all over the media and I don't really think it is much of a spoiler anyway. Still, for folks who want to be 100% unaware of everything, including the titles of the episodes, don't mouse over the spoiler text ;)

--Jason "just one week!!!! Lost on Tuesdays will feel weird though" Evans

[A-Tex Devil]

Actually, Jason, drop a space between the last 2 letters of the title and THAT'S the title of the episode. A subtle difference, but hopefully an important one.

[Wander]

Actually, Jason, drop a space between the last 2 letters of the title and THAT'S the title of the episode. A subtle difference, but hopefully an important one.

The best explanation I've heard for this is that the Dharma beer ends up being the predecessor to Dos Equis. ;)

[Art Deco]

The best explanation I've heard for this is that the Dharma beer ends up being the predecessor to Dos Equis. ;)

It'd be cool if we found out the Dos Equis guy was on The Black Rock.

[Duke4Ever32]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a site I could go to to get a refresher on what was going on at the end of Season 5 and where the characters were and what was going on and what the main storylines were? I watched all of the first 5 seasons in a 2 month period last summer, and I'm having a hard time remembering everything that was going on. Thanks!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a site I could go to to get a refresher on what was going on at the end of Season 5 and where the characters were and what was going on and what the main storylines were? I watched all of the first 5 seasons in a 2 month period last summer, and I'm having a hard time remembering everything that was going on. Thanks!
Well, if Bostondevil gets her act together, right here would be a great place :D

[Art Deco]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a site I could go to to get a refresher on what was going on at the end of Season 5 and where the characters were and what was going on and what the main storylines were? I watched all of the first 5 seasons in a 2 month period last summer, and I'm having a hard time remembering everything that was going on. Thanks!

ABC's going to have a "catch-up" special hour of Lost immediately prior to the 2-hour season finale.

[JasonEvans]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a site I could go to to get a refresher on what was going on at the end of Season 5 and where the characters were and what was going on and what the main storylines were? I watched all of the first 5 seasons in a 2 month period last summer, and I'm having a hard time remembering everything that was going on. Thanks!

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident,_Parts_1_%26_2

That should provide a good refresher.

Also, I just want to add that BostonDevil is dead to me for abandoning her recaps. DEAD!!

--Jason " ;) " Evans

[Wander]

It'd be cool if we found out the Dos Equis guy was on The Black Rock.

Richard?!

[DukeUsul]

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident,_Parts_1_%26_2

That should provide a good refresher.

Also, I just want to add that BostonDevil is dead to me for abandoning her recaps. DEAD!!

--Jason " ;) " Evans

I know .... SERIOUSLY!

She's going off writing more plays, putting on productions, winning awards.... SHEESH! Priorities, woman!

[Duvall]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a site I could go to to get a refresher on what was going on at the end of Season 5 and where the characters were and what was going on and what the main storylines were? I watched all of the first 5 seasons in a 2 month period last summer, and I'm having a hard time remembering everything that was going on. Thanks!

Last year's season finale is on right now.

[Duke4Ever32]

Last year's season finale is on right now.

Thanks everyone! I happened to catch that the finale from last season was on last night, and DVR'ed it. Also thanks for the heads-up on the catch-up hour before the premiere next week. Between those and Jason's link, I should be good!! Bring on LOST!!

[GDT]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a site I could go to to get a refresher on what was going on at the end of Season 5 and where the characters were and what was going on and what the main storylines were?

I Think iTunes was offering free downloads of all the Recap shows. I'm not sure if they still are.

[Baxter the Lab]

I'm less concerned about unresolved questions than I am a clear, definitive conclusion. In fact, the only question I want answered is who the heck was sitting in the chair when Locke and Ben paid a visit to Jacob's Cabin.

I've only seen a few interviews with the producers, but the little bit I've read has given me an uneasy feeling that the show's finale will be open to interpretation. When finales of shows like "Seinfeld" and "The Sopranos" are thrown out, it's probably not going to end well. By "well", I mean with some sense of closure.

Maybe I'm just a mindless sheep, but for five seasons, I have dutifully followed where the writers led me. Like everyone, I've had those "wtf" moments, but I haven't questioned their sense of direction. I've questioned the mythology, but not the methodology.

You've walked me through the exposition, now just tell me how it ends.

Don't make me interpret.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I could care less if Libby is coming back, my real question is Claire coming back. I want to know how she fits in to all of this. Also i want to see her and Jack's relationship now that they know they're siblings.

[JasonEvans]

I could care less if Libby is coming back, my real question is Claire coming back. I want to know how she fits in to all of this. Also i want to see her and Jack's relationship now that they know they're siblings.

I predict that we will see Claire this season-- for sure. Whether she will be the same person as before she went off with Christian is a whole different question.

-Jason "I think there will be a sense of closure at the end-- they have known where they were going from day one" Evans

[Wander]

In fact, the only question I want answered is who the heck was sitting in the chair when Locke and Ben paid a visit to Jacob's Cabin.


How's this for an out-there guess: Jacob and his rival's father. So many of the characters on the show have daddy issues, I wouldn't be surprised if they explained this trait away by having Jacob himself have some. Also, this makes a lot of sense if you've ever played the old point-and-click computer game Myst, from which the show is partially inspired from.

By the way, the first scene of season 6 is now widely available online. In my opinion, it doesn't actually spoil anything, but others will very strongly disagree with that notion I'm sure.

[GDT]

In fact, the only question I want answered is ...

I suspect that everyone has a question they want answered and for many their satisfaction with the final season will rest on whether it gets answered. And I am sure that, while the creators have a vision, there are so many questions that a lot of people are going to be very disappointed. Looking on Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page), it's staggering just how many mysteries there are remaining. And I'm not sure which are essential to the story, which are needed for plausibility and which are just random. I think it's the category in the middle that will cause the most dissatisfaction.

[JG Nothing]

I could care less if Libby is coming back, my real question is Claire coming back. I want to know how she fits in to all of this. Also i want to see her and Jack's relationship now that they know they're siblings.

Google "Claire Lost Season 6" for an answer.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I don't want to spoil it.

[devilish]

Very Long. No spoilers.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/01/lost-carlton-cuse-damon-lindelof-season-6-abc.html

[GDT]

Very Long. No spoilers.[/url]

That's an interesting article (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/01/lost-carlton-cuse-damon-lindelof-season-6-abc.html), one telling quote:

Cuse: The other phenomenon which is interesting is that the immediate interpretation of the ending of “Lost” may not be the same as the ultimate interpretation of the ending of “Lost.” (goes on to liken this to the end of Battlestar)

The author also recommends this article (http://www.avclub.com/articles/lost-season-six-the-pregame-post,37373/), looking forward to the end season.

[Baxter the Lab]

Cuse: The other phenomenon which is interesting is that the immediate interpretation of the ending of “Lost” may not be the same as the ultimate interpretation of the ending of “Lost.” (goes on to liken this to the end of Battlestar)

(Sigh)

Prepare for the inevitable final shot of Jack's eye----and left wondering when and where he is...

[bluebear]

After not watching since season 1, I've crammed seasons 2-5 into the past month watching 3+ episodes per day..not sure what am I going to do after tomorrow when I have to wait a week between episodes. It's definitely been worth the effort though...

[Pacer]

Happy Lost Day!

And... given that the reason for detonating the bomb was to achieve a do-over... it is somewhat appropriate that it airs on Groundhog day given the plot of the movie by the same name.

[ncexnyc]

Well here we are, the day that we finally start the final season of Lost. So here's a question for everyone who has either religiously followed this show from day one, or who came on board during some point in the show's run and has caught-up on every single episode.
If after many hours of disecting each and every scene, along with every scrap of dialogue do you actually think you'll be happy with the way the show ends?

I keep thinking about the movie Gladiator and the final match in North Africa where Maximus singlehandedly defeats 1/2 dozen opponents while the crowd sits there in stunned silence. Will Damon and Carlton be screaming at us, "Were you not entertained?"

[Duke4Ever32]

Well here we are, the day that we finally start the final season of Lost. So here's a question for everyone who has either religiously followed this show from day one, or who came on board during some point in the show's run and has caught-up on every single episode.
If after many hours of disecting each and every scene, along with every scrap of dialogue do you actually think you'll be happy with the way the show ends?

I keep thinking about the movie Gladiator and the final match in North Africa where Maximus singlehandedly defeats 1/2 dozen opponents while the crowd sits there in stunned silence. Will Damon and Carlton be screaming at us, "Were you not entertained?"

This has been one of the best shows I've ever seen, and I've thoroughly loved and enjoyed it. That said, I have the sneaking suspicion that whatever the ending is, I'm going to feel less than fulfilled about it.

I've carefully avoided finding out ANYTHING about Season 6, but will be very happy if tonight's premiere opens with them landing at LAX as though nothing ever happened, as has been rumored. That's a GREAT way to start off Season 6, in my opinion!! Let's get LOST!!

[GDT]

If after many hours of disecting each and every scene, along with every scrap of dialogue do you actually think you'll be happy with the way the show ends?"

I doubt it, or at least I'll be happy but not satisfied. But I think I will heartily enjoy the season which is probably what it's all about anyway.

[Wander]

Depends what you need for a satisfying ending. If you're looking for a simple answer to the question "What is the Island?" as some ultra-twist, I don't think you're going to get one, like "It's purgatory." You're not going to find out how exactly that big wooden wheel moves the island or why the lotto/hatch numbers show up everywhere.

But I do think they'll answer the vast majority of the questions the show has posed - Libby's background, who/what the Smoke Monster/Jacob/Man In Black are, the identity of Adam and Eve, what was special about Walt, why Richard doesn't age, etc.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

Here it is....

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I must admit i'm a little dissapointed to see the island under water. Although Desmond being on the plane is interesting.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Parallel plot lines. Hmmm. I wonder how long they will continue that?

"It worked." I wonder if that means they are back in current time?

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I think they're all going to meet up in the current timeline and become friends or something. I'm more concerned about what is going on, on the island. Richard was in chains once before? interesting.

[snowdenscold]

I successfully avoided hearing anything about them landing at LAX (or even the episode title), so I was quite surprised when it began that way - I expected them to have caused the Incident and was going to be very upset if they threw away 5 season of the show for a do-over, so I'm not really sure what's going on now with this parallel reality. But since we still have 75% of it is as island story that continued on, I'm satisfied for the time being.




So, thought on the episode...

Things I noticed different about the LAX / plane this time:

No Shannon
Jack has odd scar on neck?
Charlie looked different
Hurley is happy/lucky


We got to see what happened to the other tailies/children ! I thought that was forever gone to the Island of Misfit Plotlines.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

I think they're all going to meet up in the current timeline and become friends or something. I'm more concerned about what is going on, on the island. Richard was in chains once before? interesting.

I took the chains to be a metaphor. Richard worked for Jacob. He said earlier he was the way he was because Jacob made him that way (which made it sound like it was almost against his choosing).

It was just a shame to see that Richard in all his time didn't learn from the kung fu master... Body Locke took him down with ease.

[airowe]

So, thought on the episode...

Things I noticed different about the LAX / plane this time:

No Shannon
Jack has odd scar on neck?
Charlie looked different
Hurley is happy/lucky


We got to see what happened to the other tailies/children ! I thought that was forever gone to the Island of Misfit Plotlines.

What about Desmond being on the plane?!? I didn't get that at all...

[snowdenscold]

What about Desmond being on the plane?!? I didn't get that at all...

Oh oops, forgot that one while transcribing my thoughts onto DBR.

[DUKIECB]

Didn't understand Desmond being on the plane either? Shannon not being there was weird too. Come to think of it, a lot of weirdness about the whole plane situation.

What was with the shot of the island being underwater and then never saying anything about it again after that?

It was nice to finally find out the true identity of the smoke monster. We kind of already knew but at least it is now confirmed.

Why does alter ego Locke/Man in black want to go "home" and where is home? If Jacob could freely navigate through time and space why can't he?

This episode made me remember how much I like Hurley. He cracks me up!

Sorry for the rambling. Still trying to comprehend everything I saw last night.

[Pacer]

I took the chains to be a metaphor. Richard worked for Jacob.

I took the chains as literal... as in Richard was chained up in the back holding room of the Blackrock where Sawyer killed Locke's dad.

[JasonEvans]

l'll have much more later but off the top of my head...

...who are the "good guys?" The story seems to be setting up Flocke/black man/monster as the bad guy and the Temple Others/Richard/Illiana as the good guys. Ummmm, if that is the case our "good guys" sure seem eager to strongarm people, shoot to kill for no reason, and kidnap folks without any explanation. I am not sure who to root for in this little war over the island.

Also, the reason Desmond is on the plane is that he is not trapped on the island because there is no island upon which to get trapped. His future changes as much as anyone's as a result. I think we have to wonder if Penny exists in this timeline because the sunk island would have probably taken the Widmore clan down with it. Same with Daniel and Ben.

More later... gotta run.

--Jason "is it possible that Flocke is the good guy?" Evans

[airowe]

I'd have to go back and look, but I believe Widmore got booted off the island before the bomb went off, which is when the island sunk. So, Penny is probably there, not sure about Daniel Faraday.

I don't think FLocke is good. There's too much sinister in his eyes. Flocke/Man in Black and Jacob/Sayid are about to have an epic battle for the island.

[2535Miles]

I'd have to go back and look, but I believe Widmore got booted off the island before the bomb went off, which is when the island sunk. So, Penny is probably there, not sure about Daniel Faraday.

I don't think FLocke is good. There's too much sinister in his eyes. Flocke/Man in Black and Jacob/Sayid are about to have an epic battle for the island.
I was thinking the same thing about the timeline of booting and detonating the bomb. However, Widmore (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Widmore) spots Kate and Jack in 1977. Ben has Widmore exiled in 1992 (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Dead_Is_Dead).

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Flocke "I'm sorry you had to see me like that" That line was priceless!

There's a whole lot to chew on in this 2hr episode. I have no idea where to begin.

Here's a question, did Desmond land with the plane? Did Jack recognize him from running the stairs or from some island flashback?
It was really good to see Charlie and Boone.
I can't think of a question about how the nuke moved the group from the 70s to present day, but there is something unresolved here right?
Does Flocke/man in black = Smokey, or did he just conjure it? I need to rewatch that episode where Ben meets Smokey in the temple.
I'm guessing that everyone else saw the DHARMA-brand shark in the CGI underwater journey?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I'm guessing that everyone else saw the DHARMA-brand shark in the CGI underwater journey?
No, I missed that. Will have to rewatch it.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

What was the book found in the skeleton-French guy's backpack?

[mkirsh]

Penny never really fits in the timeline. I'm guessing she is older than 27 in 2004, but Widmore is on the island in 1977, so I think the best theory is that he had an "off island" family and Penny would still exist.


The book in the tunnel was the French version of Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling - a philosophical study of whether obeying God supercedes human ethics/morality (Abraham's sacrifice of Isasc).


Kind of an overwhelming episode, definitely a firehose of new info and a lot to reflect on, but very well done as usual.

I wonder if the entire season is going to show the alternate timeline of what would have happened if 815 hadn't crashed, with the end being that each of the Losties has a choice of their crash life vs non-crash life - bad Locke said something along the lines of "Locke was the only one who wanted to be here". Just conjecture...

[DukeUsul]

I really thought they should have waited three days for Sayid to be resurrected as Jacob.

Also, I'm going to be very upset if they ascribe this all to the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.

[A-Tex Devil]

Several thoughts.

--- So I agree that Sayid = Jacob now. I wonder if he'll be coy about it for a while like fake Locke was.

--- I am not sure Desmond was on the plane. OR... OR... he disappeared from the plane like the coffin did (which is what I think happened to the coffin). Remember the second time they went to the island -- some people disappeared from the plane and the rest landed on the runway in the present day.

--- I have one major fear about where the no-crash alternate timeline is going. I fear it's going to show that they all have crappy lives (the way fake Locke described to Ben) and that coming to the island was a GOOD thing. The fact the alternate reality has the plane landing safely may lead to bad things for all of those folks. The timelines have to converge though, or I'll be miffed.

--- How do Cindy and the kids not jump through time, etc. too? Are they protected by being in temple? I think this is more a minor continuity thing than anything else, and will be impressed if we get an explanation.

--- Things different about alternate reality flight:
1. Cindy gives Jack one bottle instead of 2.
2. Hurley is lucky/happy
3. Desmond on the plane
4. No Shannon
5. Anything else? (other than the way the actors looked?)


Edited to say -- Oh yeah!! Does the gang meet Juliet in alternate reality land?

[InSpades]

--- Things different about alternate reality flight:
1. Cindy gives Jack one bottle instead of 2.
2. Hurley is lucky/happy
3. Desmond on the plane
4. No Shannon
5. Anything else? (other than the way the actors looked?)


Originally Rose was the nervous one when they hit tubulence and Jack was the comforting one. This episode their roles were reversed.

[DUKIECB]

I'd have to go back and look, but I believe Widmore got booted off the island before the bomb went off, which is when the island sunk.

I'm confused - So what year are you saying it is when the island is sunk? 1977 when Juliet detonates the bomb?

[GDT]

I'm confused - So what year are you saying it is when the island is sunk? 1977 when Juliet detonates the bomb?

How do we know for sure when it sank, rather then only that when the 813 passengers land, it's underwater?

[JasonEvans]

Flocke "I'm sorry you had to see me like that" That line was priceless!

Does Flocke/man in black = Smokey, or did he just conjure it? I need to rewatch that episode where Ben meets Smokey in the temple.

I think your priceless line answers that question. "See me like that" means see me in my monster/black smoke form. The black smoke is FLocke. In the Temple scene with Ben, the black smoke takes the form of Ben's dead daughter and forces him to obey FLocke, pretty crafty smoke.


Here's a question, did Desmond land with the plane? Did Jack recognize him from running the stairs or from some island flashback?

I am not sure what we are supposed to think about this. After all, as soon as Desmond says "Brotha" in the hatch, Jack recognizes it is the same guy he met running the stairs all those years ago. This time, on the plane, Des says "Brutha" and Jack seems more puzzled. Jack and others Lostaways on the plane seem to also have vague notions that they know each other too. I am sure this will be fleshed out quite a bit in coming episodes. It will be interesting if they maintain separate realities for the entire season. It could give us two climaxes, which would be kidna cool.

By the way, anyone else notice that this was the first episode ever where we did not have any flashbacks or flashforwards, all we got were flashes from one reality to another.



It was really good to see Charlie and Boone.

I am very intrigued at the notion that the destruction of the Island has resulted in Shannon leading a different life and not coming back on the plane with Boone. Similarly, it has led to Desmond being on the plane and led to Hurley being lucky, not cursed. This is something really intriguing that I bet they will explore. There is no way they threw out the "I'm the luckiest man on Earth," line from Hurley only to never explain it.

Also worth noting, Cindy (the flight attendant) gave Jack 2 bottles of vodka on the original Oceanic 815 flight. This time, she only gives him one.

For a moment, I thought that maybe the destruction of the Island would lead to Locke having the use of his legs, but it was not to be. That too would have been a very interesting change.

Regardless, there are small and big things that are different in this timeline as a result of the Island not existing anymore. I am confident the show will not gloss that over and we will get some significant explanation/resolution to this issue.



I can't think of a question about how the nuke moved the group from the 70s to present day, but there is something unresolved here right?

This really bothered my wife. She was bothered that the bomb goes off and sends them back to the future but the future it sends them to is one where the bomb never went off (we know this because we are at the site of the imploded Swan hatch). My only explanation is that they were sent back to their future, not to an alternate future. Essentially, even though they changed a timeline, they did not change the timeline they are living. Does that make sense?



I'm guessing that everyone else saw the DHARMA-brand shark in the CGI underwater journey?

I got a giggle out of the underwater shots. We saw Dharmaville including the swingset that Ben and Annie sat upon and we saw the shark (it was bad CGI). Long live Tawaret's foot!!

--Jason "hmmmm, wait a sec. I need to look into some of this alternate timeline stuff" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Lostpedia has a page (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Differences_between_flashsideways_timeline_and_ori ginal_timeline)describing the differences in the two realities. They are referring to this as a Flashsideways. That is not a true name because the events on the Island (with Flocke and the such) are 3 years in the future from the original Oceanic 815 flight.

Anyway, among the differences they note that we have not yet pointed out--

Kate is accused of murdering her stepfather's assistant, not murdering her stepfather.

Hurley is well-known and the spokesman for Mr. Cluck.

Locke's bag of knives and Jack's father's coffin have been lost even though in the original reality they were both on the plane.


--Jason "it is sooooo good to have Lost back!!" Evans

[A-Tex Devil]

I'm confused - So what year are you saying it is when the island is sunk? 1977 when Juliet detonates the bomb?

I think the idea is that the bomb went off and started another timeline. It obliterated the island (i.e. sunk it).

But -- and I am liberally stealing this from another summary I saw -- "the generation of alternate timelines makes logical sense, because there has to be an existing version of these people who set off Jughead. Otherwise, the paradox is irresolvable."

So, they set off Jughead, creating a new timeline where 815 doesn't crash, but all the people who weren't supposed to be in 1977 get miracled back to where they are supposed to be to keep the main timeline going. If they die in 1977, and the island sinks, they are never brought to the island in 2004 and again in 2007 to destroy the island. It's a strained parallel, but they've become human versions of Locke's compass.

My head hurts.

[JasonEvans]

A couple more notes on the alternate timeline--

Does Sun secretly speak English or not? Are we supposed to think that she is happy in her life with Jin in this timeline and has no plans to leave him? Does anyone recall him having a huge stack of bills in the original timeline?

Here's a mind-bender for ya... what if Claire is not pregnant?!?! We saw a quick flash of her in the taxi with Kate but it was not clear if Claire was preggers or not. Aaron might not exist in the new timeline.

Conspicuous in their absence from the Oceanic flight -- Michael and Walt. I know that Walt would be a tough person to place on the plane because he has aged (though you could probably super-impose/CGI a younger version of him into the background without too much difficulty), but why no Michael? Are there any other prominent characters who were missing in the alt future? Where are Paolo and whatshername?

-Jason "too much fun!!" Evans

[alteran]

I don't think FLocke is good. There's too much sinister in his eyes. Flocke/Man in Black and Jacob/Sayid are about to have an epic battle for the island.

Agreed. There isn't even a remote chance that False Locke / Flocke / Smokey / Esau is good. Yeah, I caught that sinister look when he said "I want to go home," that look is pure evil. I didn't know he had that look in his repertoire.

Okay, let's suppose Flocke is bad and Jacob is good. If we filter that through season one, it makes a lot of sense. Why were the "Others," who work for Jacob, making lists of "good ones" and kidnapping those? To protect them from Flocke.

Smokey killed Eko after probing his mind. Was Eko good or not? I'd argue he was good-- he had done a lot of evil over the years, but became a man with big regrets. When he killed the kidnapping Others in what he thought was self-defense, he felt big-time remorse.

There's some things that don't fully dovetail with this theory, like Smokey killing Keamy, but there could be other explanations.

Anyhow, that's one thought-stream of mine.

Also, an important Lost island safety tip: do not smirk at Smokey when hiding behind your emergency black powder circle. It makes Smokey angry. You will not like Smokey when he's angry.

[Kdogg]

I'm definitely excited about the show but have mixed feelings about the dual timelines. I thing it will introduce more questions that answers. The bomb going off should not affect most of the passengers on the plane. Jack's father would still go to see Claire...Kate would still be on the run... Charley still trying to get the band back together...Sawyer would still seek revenge...etc.. So how and why are Hurley on the plane? If the island is gone the radio transmission never happened and he never learns about the numbers? He has no reason to go to OZ to learn about the curses numbers. Also were are the rest of the Tallies? Strange that Sawyer is in the back this time around.

[ncexnyc]

What's up with the rip-off of "Apocalypse Now?"

I wouldn't make to much of Shannon, Michael, and Walt not being around. The folks that portray these characters were probably busy with their careers.

[airowe]

I noticed that we didn't see any of the "Tailies" on the plane this time. No Mr. Echo, no AnaLucia, no Libby, etc.

Interesting note about about the book mkirsch. Thanks for that tidbit.

Yes, I do think the island was sunk when the bomb went off. I believe the pocket of energy was in a sense holding the island up. Maybe this is how the wheel controlled the positioning of the island?

[alteran]

I'm definitely excited about the show but have mixed feelings about the dual timelines. I thing it will introduce more questions that answers. The bomb going off should not affect most of the passengers on the plane. Jack's father would still go to see Claire...Kate would still be on the run... Charley still trying to get the band back together...Sawyer would still seek revenge...etc.. So how and why are Hurley on the plane? If the island is gone the radio transmission never happened and he never learns about the numbers? He has no reason to go to OZ to learn about the curses numbers. Also were are the rest of the Tallies? Strange that Sawyer is in the back this time around.

But, (and you have to stretch your brain into a pretzel for this to seem remotely logical) the bomb went off at the end of the Dharma era. That means the world started diverging in the 70s/80s, not 2002 or whenever 815 crashed. So by the time people boarded 815, things were already 20 years different.

That could explain all the subtle but not completely game-changing differences. Maybe Dharma broadcast the numbers from somewhere else, etc., etc.

[Kdogg]

But, (and you have to stretch your brain into a pretzel for this to seem remotely logical) the bomb went off at the end of the Dharma era. That means the world started diverging in the 70s/80s, not 2002 or whenever 815 crashed. So by the time people boarded 815, things were already 20 years different.

That could explain all the subtle but not completely game-changing differences. Maybe Dharma broadcast the numbers from somewhere else, etc., etc.

The bomb didn't go off at the end of the Dharma era. Remember Ben is still just a kid. He's middle age by the time he destroys the Dharma folks. That's around 20 years.

From what I can remember Hurley was the only passenger that had any tangential contact with the island. The only reason he was on the plane was because of the island. I expected every one else to be on the plane but Hurley.

[ChrisP]

Unless he was just BS'ing, plane Locke described a wonderful "walkabout" trip to Boone. In the original storyline, he's denied a chance to go on that trip because he's in a wheelchair. Not sure it's significant, but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere else in this thread. But hey, I totally didn't get that plane Kate was accused of killing someone else this time, either so...

[riverside6]

This was just posted on the Lost facebook page (http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/). It includes some Q & A with the producers on the first episode.

It also has a link to a video of Kate on America's Most Wanted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQXuiCge-wI) that was originally shown at Comic-Con.

[JasonEvans]

Unless he was just BS'ing, plane Locke described a wonderful "walkabout" trip to Boone. In the original storyline, he's denied a chance to go on that trip because he's in a wheelchair. Not sure it's significant, but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere else in this thread. But hey, I totally didn't get that plane Kate was accused of killing someone else this time, either so...

I think Locke was supposed to be BS'ing.

I too noticed the absence of Libby. I thought it would have been interesting to show the newly confident and lucky Hurley showing no interest in her.

-Jason "I need to go back and check it, but apparently, Sayid's passwort was Iranian, not Iraqi... which would be a HUGE change" Evans

[airowe]

The bomb didn't go off at the end of the Dharma era. Remember Ben is still just a kid. He's middle age by the time he destroys the Dharma folks. That's around 20 years.

From what I can remember Hurley was the only passenger that had any tangential contact with the island. The only reason he was on the plane was because of the island. I expected every one else to be on the plane but Hurley.

Actually, Ben was a kid when the bomb went off. If you remember, Ben's Dad is the one who shot Sayid as they were looking for him because he had "killed" child Ben.

[Kdogg]

Actually, Ben was a kid when the bomb went off. If you remember, Ben's Dad is the one who shot Sayid as they were looking for him because he had "killed" child Ben.

I know he was a kid when the bomb went off. The end of the Dharma era would be decades later when middle age Ben teams up with the Others and gases the Dharma folk. That's why I said the bomb did not go off at the end of the Dharma era.

[A-Tex Devil]

I know he was a kid when the bomb went off. The end of the Dharma era would be decades later when middle age Ben teams up with the Others and gases the Dharma folk. That's why I said the bomb did not go off at the end of the Dharma era.

In a way, though, it did. If you are buying the theory that the island is underwater because of the bomb, the Dharma folks died when the bomb went off in 1977, and that was the "end" of the Dharma era or this alternate timeline.


Trippy.

[mr. synellinden]

I think Locke was supposed to be BS'ing.

I too noticed the absence of Libby. I thought it would have been interesting to show the newly confident and lucky Hurley showing no interest in her.

-Jason "I need to go back and check it, but apparently, Sayid's passwort was Iranian, not Iraqi... which would be a HUGE change" Evans

I don't think Locke was lying about it. I think he really did go on the walkabout. Remember how furious he was when he was denied the chance to go on the walkabout. He was way too pleasant and calm on the flight and when his knives were lost for him to have been denied in this timeline as well.

[BlueDevilBaby]

I don't think Locke was lying about it. I think he really did go on the walkabout. Remember how furious he was when he was denied the chance to go on the walkabout. He was way too pleasant and calm on the flight and when his knives were lost for him to have been denied in this timeline as well.

Perhaps he did take his walkabout and became paralyzed during it? Crazy episode. I need to watch again.

[alteran]

The bomb didn't go off at the end of the Dharma era. Remember Ben is still just a kid. He's middle age by the time he destroys the Dharma folks. That's around 20 years.

From what I can remember Hurley was the only passenger that had any tangential contact with the island. The only reason he was on the plane was because of the island. I expected every one else to be on the plane but Hurley.

It was erroneous for me to refer to this as the end of the Dharma era. (Although, as someone pointed out, it probably WAS the end since the h-bomb went off in the new timeline. ;))

But the underlying point is still true: the bomb went off long ago relative to flight 815 (I think people are saying '77) , so there was 25 years of changed timeline leading up to the "new" flight 815. Originally, I thought you were saying that it was inconsistent that there could be character changes and I was suggesting why that might not be inconsistent. On second read, I think that's probably not what you meant at all.

[alteran]

Okay, I have a whacked out theory-- is anyone here familiar with quantum theory and wave function collapse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse)?

I'm wondering if this is going to turn out to be some wave collapse situation where some externality will force a collapse of these two realities into one-- with perhaps someone or something on the island filling the role of "observer" which collapses the reality.

[alteran]

I don't think Locke was lying about it. I think he really did go on the walkabout. Remember how furious he was when he was denied the chance to go on the walkabout. He was way too pleasant and calm on the flight and when his knives were lost for him to have been denied in this timeline as well.

+1.

Locke is many things, but he's not a liar. Granted, LAX Locke might be a liar, but I'm betting he went on walkabout.

[mkirsh]

+1.

Locke is many things, but he's not a liar. Granted, LAX Locke might be a liar, but I'm betting he went on walkabout.

I don't know...pre-Island Locke was kind of a weenie, and he did lie to Helen about continuing to stalk his father. If he never lands on the island and doesn't get his legs back and find his island faith, I could see him as a liar. Although to be fair his speech to Jack about where his father really is vs his body is vintage man-of-faith island Locke.

[DukeUsul]

Okay, I have a whacked out theory-- is anyone here familiar with quantum theory and wave function collapse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse)?

Why yes I am.


Also, I'm going to be very upset if they ascribe this all to the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.

If they suggest that these are two alternate quantum possibilities that need to be collapsed back to a single wave function, I can live with that. Like I said earlier, if they start going down the road of the many-worlds interpretation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation), I'll be very disappointed.

[A-Tex Devil]

On another note -- when FLocke/Man in Black/Smokey said "he wanted to go home" did anyone get a Lucifer vibe from that. At the very least, it seems that perhaps he has been imprisoned on this island and wants to get back to the "real world" where that could potentially be bad for everyone?

[mr. synellinden]

Perhaps he did take his walkabout and became paralyzed during it? Crazy episode. I need to watch again.

Well, when talking to Jack he seemed to believe his condition was irreversible, which suggests it had been his condition for some time, and he had been informed of its irreversibility by his doctors.

Agree that it was a crazy episode that is worth rewatching. There were several "What the ...?" moments.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

Good read

http://jezebel.com/5463426/lost-recap-see-you-in-another-life-brutha

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

Good read

http://jezebel.com/5463426/lost-recap-see-you-in-another-life-brutha

Instead of trying to Con Hurly, James Ford told him that he should beware of people trying to take advantage of him.

[BluDevilGal]

Okay, let's suppose Flocke is bad and Jacob is good. If we filter that through season one, it makes a lot of sense. Why were the "Others," who work for Jacob, making lists of "good ones" and kidnapping those? To protect them from Flocke.

Smokey killed Eko after probing his mind. Was Eko good or not? I'd argue he was good-- he had done a lot of evil over the years, but became a man with big regrets. When he killed the kidnapping Others in what he thought was self-defense, he felt big-time remorse.

There's some things that don't fully dovetail with this theory, like Smokey killing Keamy, but there could be other explanations.

The thing I wonder is if at some point in time when Ben thought he was taking orders from Jacob, he was actually taking orders from Flocke. I'd need to do a bit of rewatching or searching through Lostpedia to sort it all out, but here are some thoughts:
-the cabin where the line of ash got broken...was that the same one Locke and Ben went to to see Jacob or a different one?
-I could see some scenario where Flocke is trapped there and somehow convinces Ben that he is Jacob in order to manipulate him.
-When Locke first went to the cabin, Jacob called out "help" to him, correct? So maybe it wasn't Jacob, maybe it was trapped Flocke??
-This might also help with trying to sort out why Ben was allowed to control Smokey and who Smokey chose to kill

Honestly, I have no idea, but it's just something I was wondering about!

[JasonEvans]

The thing I wonder is if at some point in time when Ben thought he was taking orders from Jacob, he was actually taking orders from Flocke. I'd need to do a bit of rewatching or searching through Lostpedia to sort it all out, but here are some thoughts:
-the cabin where the line of ash got broken...was that the same one Locke and Ben went to to see Jacob or a different one?
-I could see some scenario where Flocke is trapped there and somehow convinces Ben that he is Jacob in order to manipulate him.
-When Locke first went to the cabin, Jacob called out "help" to him, correct? So maybe it wasn't Jacob, maybe it was trapped Flocke??
-This might also help with trying to sort out why Ben was allowed to control Smokey and who Smokey chose to kill

Honestly, I have no idea, but it's just something I was wondering about!

The broken line of ash and the fact that Illiana and Brom said that Jacob had not been in the shack in a long time totally rewrites all of our understanding of what has gone on in recent seasons. Ben took Locke to visit smokey when he thought he was visiting Jacob, that much is now clear to me.

I guess that when Hurley saw Christian and Claire together in the shack, he was seeing Claire with smokey. All the times Locke and Ben felt guided by various spirits or whatever, they were being manipulated by smokey. And, obviously, smokey = Flocke = man in black.

I have to question why Richard was not able to see what was going on and stop it. When Ben took Locke to visit the shack, Richard should have been said, "ummmm, where are you going?" And why was Richard even hanging out with The Others and Ben when there appears to have been a whole different community of Others living at The Temple and listening to the Japanese-speaking leader? Strange.

I think the producers have said that we are not going to see any more flashbacks or flashforward this season-- only "flash sideways" which is what they call the alternate timeline. I understand why no flashforward, that would simply not make sense at this point. But, I hope we do get a few flashbacks to see Richard's history and perhaps better explain a bit of what has been going on with The Others over the years.

--Jason "Is it Tuesday yet?" Evans

[johnb]

There are so many twists and turns...

In some ways, I feel like the bomb hit the island like a hammer hits mercury. Can't kill the mercury, but it splatters all over the place, essentially allowing for all sorts of random events that the Lost writers could concoct while drinking margaritas by the pool.

As I think about it, everyone changed after the event, but Lost likes to do that. And some of it was playing with us. For example, James telling Hurley to be careful is the sort of thing old James would say prior to robbing him blind.

Now I'm not convinced the White and Black guys are even different people at all but rather different concepts or something.

[GDT]

In some ways, I feel like the bomb hit the island like a hammer hits mercury. Can't kill the mercury, but it splatters all over the place...

Somewhere, someone suggested it's like tossing a big rock in a stream of water. The water moves out of place, around the rock, and then eventually converges.


...the Lost writers could concoct while drinking margaritas by the pool.

I *think* that was Seasons 3&4. But if the tattoos come back into play, we'll know you're right.

[Baxter the Lab]

Obviously, a lot more questions developed from this episode. But one, in particular, has been nagging at me.

The writers made sure to demonstrate to us that this was not our fathers' Hurley. The "new" Hurley did not feel himselft cursed. Which makes sense, considering the new timeline would not have allowed for him to learn the numbers from his Army friend.

Yet...he still won the lottery.

Are we to understand that he used a different set of lottery numbers this time around?

[riverside6]

Obviously, a lot more questions developed from this episode. But one, in particular, has been nagging at me.

The writers made sure to demonstrate to us that this was not our fathers' Hurley. The "new" Hurley did not feel himselft cursed. Which makes sense, considering the new timeline would not have allowed for him to learn the numbers from his Army friend.

Yet...he still won the lottery.

Are we to understand that he used a different set of lottery numbers this time around?

Good question. I do know in an interview the producers did on Jimmy Kimmel that they said the numbers would be featured once again this season. Specifically they said we will see them more in the next few episodes. My guess is that Hurley will have learned of the numbers in some other way.

[alteran]

Obviously, a lot more questions developed from this episode. But one, in particular, has been nagging at me.

The writers made sure to demonstrate to us that this was not our fathers' Hurley. The "new" Hurley did not feel himselft cursed. Which makes sense, considering the new timeline would not have allowed for him to learn the numbers from his Army friend.

Yet...he still won the lottery.

Are we to understand that he used a different set of lottery numbers this time around?

Upthread, someone mentioned that the guy that heard the numbers appeared to have heard them significantly pre-'77/pre-bomb.

[DukeUsul]

I have a friend who suggested a possible place the series is going.

The finale will end with Flocke and Hurley, sitting on the beach. Flocke will say "You know, I really want to kill you..."

[BlueDevilBaby]

I have a friend who suggested a possible place the series is going.

The finale will end with Flocke and Hurley, sitting on the beach. Flocke will say "You know, I really want to kill you..."

"progress":D

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I just rewatch Lost and i realized at first Juliet believes that her hitting the bomb doesn't work, but before she dies she knows that it worked. Interesting, i wonder what happened between that time that made her know hitting the bomb had worked.

[northernduke]

The broken line of ash and the fact that Illiana and Brom said that Jacob had not been in the shack in a long time totally rewrites all of our understanding of what has gone on in recent seasons.


Where again do we see the ash is broken?

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

At the cabin.

[JasonEvans]

Where again do we see the ash is broken?

Read more about it on Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ash_circles).

--Jason

[JG Nothing]

I don't think FLocke is good. There's too much sinister in his eyes. Flocke/Man in Black and Jacob/Sayid are about to have an epic battle for the island.

Is the "resurrected" Sayid really aligned with Jacob? The message Jacob sends in the guitar case said Sayid must live or there would be dangerous consequences if I recall correctly. Sayid died. Could the Man in Black be in control of Sayid's body?

[JG Nothing]

I guess that when Hurley saw Christian and Claire together in the shack, he was seeing Claire with smokey. All the times Locke and Ben felt guided by various spirits or whatever, they were being manipulated by smokey. And, obviously, smokey = Flocke = man in black.

I wonder what is going on with dead people and the ability of the MIB (or perhaps Jacob) to take on their bodily form. Why did the MIB burn all the bodies in the temple after he killed them? He did burn all the bodies, right? You could think of burning Jacob as an act of vengence or an attempt to make sure he is dead, but why take the time to burn Jacob's body guards?

[weezie]

Since this is such a long thread, sorry in advance, but has the possibility of a third time line been put forth?

[JG Nothing]

Since this is such a long thread, sorry in advance, but has the possibility of a third time line been put forth?

To follow up on weezie's comment about the length of this thread, can we have a separate thread for each episode?

I don't recall any talk of a third time line. I think more than two would become unmanageable. Also, the two time lines represent the two realities posed by exploding or not exploding the bomb.

[Wander]

Also, the two time lines represent the two realities posed by exploding or not exploding the bomb.

Speaking of which... I bet one of the twists this season is that the LAX timeline is the timeline where the bomb did NOT explode and vice versa.

[DukeUsul]

Speaking of which... I bet one of the twists this season is that the LAX timeline is the timeline where the bomb did NOT explode and vice versa.

I really like that. Going into this season I was of the mind that the bomb going off WAS the incident, but it never destroyed anything.... the anomaly "sucked up" all the nuclear energy and it actually made the anomaly more potent and led to them having to encase it in concrete and have to release it every 108 minutes.... So I always thought that what they were doing trying to disrupt the history they knew would actually cause it.

And I love your point that that's what they'll end up showing, and the line where they get off the plane safely is the one where the bomb didn't blow up. Love it.

[Bostondevil]

Thoughts on Juliet.

I read a comment somewhere, here? Don't remember. Anwyay, it criticized the show for giving Juliet an awesome death scene last season only to bring her back for a weak one this year. My take is this - Juliet had to come back to tell Sawyer 'it worked'. How does she know? She's telling him they should meet for coffee sometime because her conciousness is straddling both timelines. So, weak death scene, but important in getting that detail across. Juliet is alive in the parallel and she knows it. My two cents anyway.

[alteran]

Speaking of which... I bet one of the twists this season is that the LAX timeline is the timeline where the bomb did NOT explode and vice versa.

Ooooh-- GOOD one!

[JasonEvans]

To follow up on weezie's comment about the length of this thread, can we have a separate thread for each episode?


Yes, starting this week we will have a new thread for each week's episode. Pruning all the comments out of this thread does not make sense but that is how we will work it going forward.

--Jason "so let it be written, so let it be done" Evans

[OZZIE4DUKE]

--Jason "so let it be written, so let it be done" Evans
Yes, Pharaoh, whatever you say! :cool:

[DukeUsul]

Also, it was important so that the producers could confuse everyone in the offseason by saying, "Yeah, Elizabeth Mitchell will be back for the final season." Will she live, will she die? Will she be in flashbacks?

[Baxter the Lab]

Ok, the flip-flopped timelines really have me baffled. I'm having trouble conceptualizing this theory.

So...if the LAX timeline was based on the bomb NOT exploding, how could Jack and the rest be (seemingly) strangers on the flight to LAX shown in the premiere?

I'm so confused. But I love it.

I love it long time.

[DukeUsul]

Ok, the flip-flopped timelines really have me baffled. I'm having trouble conceptualizing this theory.

So...if the LAX timeline was based on the bomb NOT exploding, how could Jack and the rest be (seemingly) strangers on the flight to LAX shown in the premiere?

I'm so confused. But I love it.

I love it long time.

It goes back to the premise that Jack had that setting the bomb off would prevent the magnetic anomaly from ever being encased in concrete, which would prevent Desmond from having to press that button, which would prevent him from ever missing the button and letting the plane crash.

But what if the nuke going off actually WAS "the incident?" What if setting it off didn't destroy the island? What if all that nuclear energy actually contributed to the anomaly (making it worse) and that setting off the bomb actually is what necessitated someone sitting and pressing the button... which as we know, eventually Desmond failed to do and that caused the plane to crash.

[alteran]

It goes back to the premise that Jack had that setting the bomb off would prevent the magnetic anomaly from ever being encased in concrete, which would prevent Desmond from having to press that button, which would prevent him from ever missing the button and letting the plane crash.

But what if the nuke going off actually WAS "the incident?" What if setting it off didn't destroy the island? What if all that nuclear energy actually contributed to the anomaly (making it worse) and that setting off the bomb actually is what necessitated someone sitting and pressing the button... which as we know, eventually Desmond failed to do and that caused the plane to crash.

As a veteran of 30+ years of Star Trek, and thereby considering myself somewhat an expert on fictional and gratuitous time travel paradoxes :D, I've got to hand it to you guys for coming up with a scenario that completely cooked my noodle.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it's wrong, BUT I absolutely cannot think of any "proof" that doesn't have the potential to wiggle away and still have this come out to be true.

The best I can come up with is the following. First, we have two realities: 1) Still Lost and 2) LAX. Everyone assumes that LAX = Jack-blows-hatch, and that Still Lost is Desmond-blows-hatch. This theory is that it's the other way around.

However, for LAX to be the reality where Desmond blows the hatch, he has to fail to hit the button in the same reality AND at the exact time that he is chatting with Jack on 815. Or, someone ELSE has to fail to hit the button at the exact same time.

I wouldn't put it past Lost for this to be true somehow-- one of them could be the smoke, for example-- but personally I think that's a Paradox Too Far, even for Lost.

But I wouldn't want to bet my house on it.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

As a veteran of 30+ years of Star Trek, and thereby considering myself somewhat an expert on fictional and gratuitous time travel paradoxes :D, I've got to hand it to you guys for coming up with a scenario that completely cooked my noodle.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it's wrong, BUT I absolutely cannot think of any "proof" that doesn't have the potential to wiggle away and still have this come out to be true.

The best I can come up with is the following. First, we have two realities: 1) Still Lost and 2) LAX. Everyone assumes that LAX = Jack-blows-hatch, and that Still Lost is Desmond-blows-hatch. This theory is that it's the other way around.

However, for LAX to be the reality where Desmond blows the hatch, he has to fail to hit the button in the same reality AND at the exact time that he is chatting with Jack on 815. Or, someone ELSE has to fail to hit the button at the exact same time.

I wouldn't put it past Lost for this to be true somehow-- one of them could be the smoke, for example-- but personally I think that's a Paradox Too Far, even for Lost.

But I wouldn't want to bet my house on it.

I like it.

[JasonEvans]

As a veteran of 30+ years of Star Trek, and thereby considering myself somewhat an expert on fictional and gratuitous time travel paradoxes :D, I've got to hand it to you guys for coming up with a scenario that completely cooked my noodle.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it's wrong, BUT I absolutely cannot think of any "proof" that doesn't have the potential to wiggle away and still have this come out to be true.

The best I can come up with is the following. First, we have two realities: 1) Still Lost and 2) LAX. Everyone assumes that LAX = Jack-blows-hatch, and that Still Lost is Desmond-blows-hatch. This theory is that it's the other way around.

However, for LAX to be the reality where Desmond blows the hatch, he has to fail to hit the button in the same reality AND at the exact time that he is chatting with Jack on 815. Or, someone ELSE has to fail to hit the button at the exact same time.

I wouldn't put it past Lost for this to be true somehow-- one of them could be the smoke, for example-- but personally I think that's a Paradox Too Far, even for Lost.

But I wouldn't want to bet my house on it.

I think you misunderstand.

There is one reality where Desmond is on the ground not pushing the button which causes the plane to crash. There is another reality where Desmond is on the plane chatting with Jack (we think). Of course he cannot be in both places at the same time.

However, the question is -- what caused each reality? Is the Desmond not pushing the button reality a product of the bomb going off or a product of the bomb never being there in the first place? That is what we do not know even though we are sorta being led to believe that Desmond on the plane (and the sunken Island) are a product of the bomb going off.

Worth noting that we are not even sure that Desmond was on the plane. Recall that he has one brief conversation with Jack and then he all but disappears. Jack even asks where he is and no one seems to know. It almost appears that no one but Jack knows he is there. Perhaps the Desmond on the plane is not the real Desmond... if that makes sense.

--Jason "I like the idea that the bomb created the hatch and no bomb would mean no island" Evans

[snowdenscold]

--Jason "I like the idea that the bomb created the hatch and no bomb would mean no island" Evans

Just so I'm tracking correctly, the 'bomb created the hatch' part is what Miles proposed at the end of last season, and has been the common understanding of what would probably happen during the off-season right?

And the 'no island' part is caused by the bomb not going off then? So how does the bomb not going off cause the island to sink... and how does that reality come to be in the first place - the result of some paradox?

[alteran]

I think you misunderstand.


Yeah, I guess my noodle is more cooked than I realized.

I definitely screwed up the case I was trying to make. Rather than explicate it, let me see if I understand the theory.

Timeline 1 = Jack blows bomb + Desmond blows hatch = TempleNLosties
Timeline 2 = Jack doesn't blow bomb + Island sinks = LAX

Have I got it now?

[JasonEvans]

Yeah, I guess my noodle is more cooked than I realized.

I definitely screwed up the case I was trying to make. Rather than explicate it, let me see if I understand the theory.

Timeline 1 = Jack blows bomb + Desmond blows hatch = TempleNLosties
Timeline 2 = Jack doesn't blow bomb + Island sinks = LAX

Have I got it now?

Yup, that is what some folks are guessing.

Note that Jack blows bomb and Jack does not blow bomb are somewhat interchangeable. That is at least part of the mystery of what is going on right now.

Interesting to note that if Jack goes to LAX instead of to the Island then he cannot travel back in time and blow up the bomb. So, if Jack blowing the bomb creates the hatch and leads to Desmond not pushing the button then we actually solve one of the fundamental paradoxes of Jack trying to change history.

Does that make sense?

As for how/why the Island sinks underwater if not from the bomb blast, that is impossible for any of us to say. I am not sure the LAX timeline will ever address what happened to the island. It might, but I would not be surprised if they simply said, "it sank" and leave it at that.

--Jason "then again, the island has been around for a looong time, something must cause it to sink" Evans