Mavericks Pull a UNC

[mr. synellinden]

(I'm liking "Pulling a UNC" as a synonym for choking.)

To be fair, the Mavericks flameout was not as shocking as some other NBA playoff upsets over the years; however, it was arguably the most historic.

Of the other 11 teams that finished with 67 wins or more, 10 won the title and the one that lost ('73 Celtics) lost in the conf. finals after losing their best player (Hondo). So this was a historic upset and I believe the Warriors won it more than Dallas lost it. Even so, it's hard to believe that a team as good as the Mavericks, on the brink of elimination could fold up the tents and go so quietly. And how about Dirk scoring only 8 points.

A lot has alread been said and written on various web sites about the series and the disappearing act by Nowitzki. But I think one key sequence last night really summed everything up.

In the middle of the third quarter, while Golden State was making their big run and burying the Mavericks for good, Baron Davis took a hard foul from Austin Croshere, not a dirty or flagrant foul but a good hard foul. Davis popped up from the floor and there was about a moment and a half of Artest-like melee potential before Davis gained his wits and everyone calmed down. Davis proceeded to nail both free throws while shooting dagger-like stares at Croshere after making each one.

On the next Warriors possession, Stephen Jackson had the ball at the three point line and made a move toward the basket. He took a bump from Josh Howard and went to the ground. Now here is where it got interesting. Howard immediately went over to Jackson to offer him a hand under the guise of showing good sportsmanship. But it was obvious in the body language it was done more out of fear than trying to be gentlemanly. It was like being on the NYC subway and having some deranged looking, drooling neanderthal elbow you in the ribs, and then saying I'm sorry out of fear that somehow the mongoloid thinks that your ribs banged into his elbow.

What was so interesting about that gesture was that it wasn't really a hard foul, but it came in a series that has been very testy, with ejections and technicals, and just after there was a hint of brawl breaking out. That's why it was obvious to me that there was an element of fear in Howard's gesture. Here is a team that is supposed to be the best in the league and it's in the midst of getting run out of the series by a http://www.dukebasketballreport.comhttp://www.dukebasketballreport.comhttp://www.dukebasketballreport.comhttp://www.dukebasketballreport.comy, trash-talking team and Howard wants to help Jackson up? He should be furious at that point and his competitive fire should be sending signals to his brain that say something like "that's right punk, I knocked you on your as[_]." But instead his brain was saying, "go over and help this loose canon up so he doesn't decide to get up and put a fist through my cranium." I mean, do you think Michael Jordan would have helped Jackson up there?

And that to me sums up why the Mavericks lost. They were scared. Scared of losing and scared to really take it at the Warriors. To me, scared = lack of heart. Somewhere between win #67 and last night, the Mavericks lost it. Unless they really never had it - which would explain how they lost game 3 and then the series last year against the Heat.

On a separate note, I am very excited for game 7 of the Rockets-Jazz series (I find myself rooting more for the Jazz, which I think is because Boozer is a more crucial to the team's success than Battier is) and even more excited for the whole Spurs-Suns series, which could very well end up being the championship series.

[Troublemaker]

I don't see it as a choke/upset but rather just a bad matchup for Dallas. I think the Mavs would've beaten every other playoff team in a 7-game series except for Golden State and Phoenix. The Warriors exposed Dallas' lack of a postup scorer, and you absolutely need a very good to great post player to beat Golden State in order to make them pay for their smallball. There are few other avenues of attack that don't play right into Golden State's hands and their blend of athleticism, passing ability, and versatility. I don't really consider the result to be an upset or choke because if they played 100 times, Golden State probably wins 80 times. Just a bad matchup for Dallas.

I enjoy watching the Warriors play. It's like watching Coach K's vision of an ideal basketball team. You have a great point guard surrounded by a bunch of positionless, versatile players who can just ball.

[feldspar]

In fairness, it could very well be argued that the Mavs pulled a Duke - lost in the first round to a lesser team.

I'm still surprised we're so quick around here to criticize UNC's early exit after the way our team performed this year.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

The Mavs made a mistake in not taking the last game of the regular season (against Golden State) seriously. If they had won that game they might have played the Clippers in the first round instead. They knew Golden State created bad match-ups for them, but they chose to rest their starters and more or less give the Warriors a playoff berth.

[hc5duke]

I thought the exact same thing about Golden State in game 5. Up by a pretty good margin, then Mavs go on a 15-0 run to finish the game. Except of course Golden State is actually moving on to the next round.

[SilkyJ]

In fairness, it could very well be argued that the Mavs pulled a Duke - lost in the first round to a lesser team.

I'm still surprised we're so quick around here to criticize UNC's early exit after the way our team performed this year.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

what is wrong with you? being a dukie means making fun of UNC at all costs!

[Vincetaylor]

It's hard to call UNC the chokers when we choke every year. Truth hurts. Losing to a crappy LSU team last year has to be the biggest choke in K's career. That was pitiful.

[Bob Green]

It's hard to call UNC the chokers when we choke every year. Truth hurts. Losing to a crappy LSU team last year has to be the biggest choke in K's career. That was pitiful.

I believe we need to lay-off of the UNC bashing and focus on Duke basketball. Losing to LSU last year and bowing out to VCU in the 1st Round this year leaves us in no position to bash UNC. Let's face it, we should have been a Final Four lock last year with J.J. and Shelden. But an incredibly bad game by J.J. (11 points on 3-18 shooting including 0-9 inside the arc) did us in. That's life in a one and done tournament.

Personally, I would rather focus on the 2007-2008 season and beyond! Let's sign PP, Greg Monroe and Elliot Williams, and kick some butt starting next season. To Hell with Carolina!

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

[Lavabe]

Agreed that the LSU loss was a bad upset. Duke had a 28% FG performance throughout the game, and was within one possession up until the last 20-30 seconds. Duke, save Shelden Williams, did not shoot well. Throughout the whole game, LSU had a stifling defense on JJ. Bad loss? Yes. Disappointing? YES! Upset? Yes. Choke? That was not the term used in the press.

On the other hand, the 2007 UNC - Georgetown game was "stunning," an "amazing collapse." Admittedly, those are the words from the Hoya and CBS sportsline views:

http://guhoyas.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/032507aaa.html
http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/gamecenter/recap/NCAAB_20070325_GTOWN@NC

UNC had an eleven-point lead in the second half, and was nearly completely shut out in overtime. 1 for 23 ... that's 23 ... field goal shooting. From solid FG% to 4%!! :eek: :D

That's about a 25-point turnaround when the game was on the line. And don't forget the meltdowns in the postgame interviews. Shall we go into the archives to re-live some of those gems?

To be clear, today's googling of "amazing collapse" reveals that the UNC collapse against Georgetown was the 7th hit, and the first sports reference.

As for "chokes," UNC-Georgetown 2007 is a blip, and comes nowhere close in lists of "chokes." Here's one such list:
http://www.askmen.com/sports/fitness_top_ten/43_fitness_list.html

THEN AGAIN, check out this reference in Wikipedia.org, and look at the reference to our baby-blue rivals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choke_(sports)

The truth is, I'm not really fond of "choke." Call Carolina the most recent example of sheer brick-itude, if you will. It was a stunning turnaround. The invincible suddenly, for no reason, becoming ... vincible. Then again, when I saw Chelsea, the English soccer team with the biggest payroll in all of professional sports, nearly get shutout in penalty kicks the other night in the Champions League final four, all I could think of was an "amazing collapse" with everything on the line, not unlike our pastel-blue RIVALS playing Georgetown. They pulled a Carolina.

Cheers,
Lavabe

[Troublemaker]

LSU wasn't a choke. They were too athletic for our overrated/overachieving 06 team. We've choked before, like that meltdown against UConn in 04, but LSU shouldn't count.

UNC-G'town was the definition of a choke. A far superior team letting the inferior team dominate them down the stretch to blow a game they were in control of. There should be no hesitation from Duke fans in labelling that a choke. It's a rivalry. We needle them every chance we get.

[SilkyJ]

It's a rivalry. We needle them every chance we get.

THANK YOU.

We're not bashing UNC we're having fun being Duke fans, Bob. I agree that we should look to the future (following PP has been at the top of my priority list for a while) but why can't we have a little fun while we're at it?

GTHCGTH-ES!

[mepanchin]

Don't think I'd call LSU and VCU chokes... in fact I think the only chokes were UConn 99 and 04 (should have won both games), and Indiana 02. 06 we were not as good as our record indicated. JJ has serious issues with taller and quick defenders and he was responsible for the bulk of our offense. We needed more balance to be a real contender.

[Lavabe]

Let's be clear about this year's UNC collapse. It's not an isolated event:

2006: George Mason down by 7 at the half, beats UNC by 5 in the NCAAs.
2007: Georgetown down by 10 w/3 minutes left, beats UNC going away in OT.

With any luck, in 2008: Hopefully either Georgia, George Washington, or Georgia Tech beats UNC in the NCAAs, but only after UNC takes a big lead.:D

Just needling,
Lavabe

[mr. synellinden]

Don't think I'd call LSU and VCU chokes... in fact I think the only chokes were UConn 99 and 04 (should have won both games), and Indiana 02. 06 we were not as good as our record indicated. JJ has serious issues with taller and quick defenders and he was responsible for the bulk of our offense. We needed more balance to be a real contender.

Kentucky in 1998? Up 17 with 9 to go. Other than '99 that has been the most painful loss of the K era for me. I strongly believe we would have gone on to win the title that year. The '98 team is very underrated in the pantheon of great Duke teams.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I'm a UNC fan and I'll even admit that we choked in the Georgetown game.

But it was a different sort of choke than the Mavericks. The Mavs were supposedly the far superior team and they just got their butts whooped. Georgetown was not an inferior team; in fact, when the brackets first game out the vast majority of analysts had them making the Final Four.

So it wasn't a choke that we lost to Georgetown, but it was a choke the way in which we lost. I would have much prefered it if GU had just soundly beaten us all game than have the massive collapse that occured.

[Virginian]

It's strikes me as very strange for people to argue that we on this board shouldn't criticize UNC since Duke had a disappointing year. Many here certainly spent more than enough time knocking everything and everyone about the Duke team and its season. After all that, there is no reason at all to hold back on Carolina's failings. Are we supposed to criticize ONLY Duke?

[feldspar]

It's strikes me as very strange for people to argue that we on this board shouldn't criticize UNC since Duke had a disappointing year. Many here certainly spent more than enough time knocking everything and everyone about the Duke team and its season. After all that, there is no reason at all to hold back on Carolina's failings. Are we supposed to criticize ONLY Duke?

Ever heard of the old proverb about those living in glass houses throwing hard, stony objects?

[Lavabe]

Ever heard of the old proverb about those living in glass houses throwing hard, stony objects?

Gee... coming from someone named feldspar, I have to think about that old proverb!;)

In the dismal years of 1982-1983, we didn't stop poking fun at UNC. 1982-1983 would be my standard of a glass house. 2007 didn't come anywhere close to that. It's a rivalry. Or as Ozzie would say:

9F! 9F! 9F! 9F!

Cheers,
Lavabe

[Cameron]

http://images.sportsnetwork.com/football/nfl/allsport/superbowl/norwood_scott.jpg

[CMS2478]

I have to agree with Feldspar here. It seems a little silly to making fun of a team who went to the elite 8, while we were ousted in the first round. You can argue til your blue in the face about VCU being a "really good" team, but the bottom line is that we should have beat them. If anyone choked it was us!!! It's kind of like driving a station wagon and saying " Ha Ha Ha look at that Corvette that guy is driving, what a loser." :D

[Troublemaker]

Gee... coming from someone named feldspar, I have to think about that old proverb!;)

In the dismal years of 1982-1983, we didn't stop poking fun at UNC. 1982-1983 would be my standard of a glass house. 2007 didn't come anywhere close to that. It's a rivalry. Or as Ozzie would say:

9F! 9F! 9F! 9F!

Cheers,
Lavabe

Agreed. And I think any Duke fans who are carrying around guilt, angst or disappointment from Duke "choking" the past few years should probably chill out and relax. In the grand scheme of things, we're still rooting for a great program doing things the right way. To me, the last few years just represent a period of adjustment for Coach K (not unlike what Dean had to go through between 82 and 93). Coach K needs to figure out how to win in the NCAA tournament despite early entry and transfers that have taken a toll on Duke's depth and athleticism, and as far as I can tell, he's starting to make an adjustment by recruiting to 12 and 13 scholarships. Let's give it a chance before we start calling ourselves the new UNC. In the meantime, needle them as usual. The Georgetown choke was epic.

[SilkyJ]

Gee... coming from someone named feldspar, I have to think about that old proverb!;)

In the dismal years of 1982-1983, we didn't stop poking fun at UNC. 1982-1983 would be my standard of a glass house. 2007 didn't come anywhere close to that. It's a rivalry. Or as Ozzie would say:

9F! 9F! 9F! 9F!

Cheers,
Lavabe

Ozzie/Lavabe/Anyone else who knows:

what is the "9F!" thing all about?

-catapulter of hard, stony objects

[feldspar]

what is the "9F!" thing all about?

Link (http://www.duke.edu/~bct1/images/DBRHPR7.1asPDF.pdf)

See item 9(f)

[The Gordog]

In fairness, it could very well be argued that the Mavs pulled a Duke - lost in the first round to a lesser team.

I'm still surprised we're so quick around here to criticize UNC's early exit after the way our team performed this year.

You should be banned for talking like that. OK, not really, but you need to learn some history! When you are a #6 seed losing in the first round is not that big of a deal. Carolina is one of the only #2 seeds to ever lose in the first round. 1976 - first round loss to Alabama, 1978 - first round loss to SanFrancisco, 1979 - lost in the second round to Penn after getting a bye in the first round, 1980 - lost in the second round to Texas A&M after getting a bye in the first round, 1999 - lost to Weber State in the first round. Quite a record of choking IMHO.

[Virginian]

I have to agree with Feldspar here. It seems a little silly to making fun of a team who went to the elite 8, while we were ousted in the first round. You can argue til your blue in the face about VCU being a "really good" team, but the bottom line is that we should have beat them. If anyone choked it was us!!! It's kind of like driving a station wagon and saying " Ha Ha Ha look at that Corvette that guy is driving, what a loser." :D

The more apt analogy, here, IMO is if the Corvette driver is so busy picking his nose he runs into a stop sign and bangs up his car. You're saying we shouldn't comment on his inept driving because after all we're only driving a station wagon.

As for Fedspar, I take his point, but I'd more willing to accept it if I thought that Carolina fans had held off on their incessant criticism of all things Duke during the long dark years of UNC inept play before the arrival of Roy. Did THEY hold off from gloating when we failed in the Elite 8 or the Final Four in recent years? I think not. I know not. And before you jump in with comments to the effect that "well, we're supposed to be better than they are," let me just say that's not only untrue, it's beside the point.

The point: we don't have to EARN the right to criticize anyone, including Carolina. I repeat, if we can criticize our own team we can criticize theirs too.

[CMS2478]

The more apt analogy, here, IMO is if the Corvette driver is so busy picking his nose he runs into a stop sign and bangs up his car. You're saying we shouldn't comment on his inept driving because after all we're only driving a station wagon.

As for Fedspar, I take his point, but I'd more willing to accept it if I thought that Carolina fans had held off on their incessant criticism of all things Duke during the long dark years of UNC inept play before the arrival of Roy. Did THEY hold off from gloating when we failed in the Elite 8 or the Final Four in recent years? I think not. I know not. And before you jump in with comments to the effect that "well, we're supposed to be better than they are," let me just say that's not only untrue, it's beside the point.

The point: we don't have to EARN the right to criticize anyone, including Carolina. I repeat, if we can criticize our own team we can criticize theirs too.


Is that at least he had a corvette to wreck (like UNC had the Elite 8 to choke away) while we bowed out in the first round to a weaker team. But I see your point. Hey, I like to laugh and make fun of Carolina as much as anyone.........I just think we need to concentrate on fixing up the station wagon and not worry so much about the corvette. ;)

[feldspar]

As for Fedspar, I take his point, but I'd more willing to accept it if I thought that Carolina fans had held off on their incessant criticism of all things Duke during the long dark years of UNC inept play before the arrival of Roy.


So, what you're saying is that you allow yourself to sink to the level of a UNC fan?

More power to ya.

[Virginian]

Is that at least he had a corvette to wreck (like UNC had the Elite 8 to choke away) while we bowed out in the first round to a weaker team. But I see your point. Hey, I like to laugh and make fun of Carolina as much as anyone.........I just think we need to concentrate on fixing up the station wagon and not worry so much about the corvette. ;)

Just *noticing" that the Corvette had a minor accident is not the same as being fixated on the fact that someone has a better car than you do. Which is my point -- a minor, passing comment about Carolina, of all teams, shouldn't bring out a string of posts from various people here admonishing us not to comment on any team that did better in the NCAAs last year than Duke did.

Maybe Feldspar would be so kind as to provide a list of teams we are allowed to mention here.

This is what I'm reacting to -- and I want to be clear that I know this is just a minor, mostly lighthearted thread -- the fact that people are not objecting to WHAT some posters say critically about Carolina but to the mere fact that the posters are saying anything critical AT ALL about Carolina.

For that viewpoint to be given credence on a Duke board strikes me as funny. Particularly since there's a long, ongoing thread about Carolina hatred that I don't believe anyone here has objected to. So it's okay to *hate* Carolina -- it even seems to be the expected norm with people vying to top the previous poster in their profession of hatred for all things baby blue -- but it's not okay to say anything mildly critical about how the Carolina team fared in the NCAA tourney?

[Wander]

So it's okay to *hate* Carolina -- it even seems to be the expected norm with people vying to top the previous poster in their profession of hatred for all things baby blue -- but it's not okay to say anything mildly critical about how the Carolina team fared in the NCAA tourney?

You're being a drama queen. Nobody said you can't make fun of UNC. It's just that you get the feeling that some of the Duke fans who are doing it are really ignorant about it.

By the way... Duke/VCU was not a choke. Those two teams were pretty much exactly on equal footing, so I don't see how it can be a choke or even really an upset.

[feldspar]

Maybe Feldspar would be so kind as to provide a list of teams we are allowed to mention here.



Darn you, Wander. You took my drama queen reference. :D

Seriously, Virginia, lighten up. Lord knows I have no power over anyone around here. :rolleyes:

[Virginian]

Darn you, Wander. You took my drama queen reference. :D

Seriously, Virginia, lighten up. Lord knows I have no power over anyone around here. :rolleyes:

Hey, after all, I'm the one who said the whole thread was lighthearted. I figured we were all just having fun. In fact, I wasn't even one of the posters commenting on Carolina in the first place.

In any case, consider me lightened!

Thanks for the discussion.

[SilkyJ]

the bottom line is two things makes us happy: Duke winning and carolina sucking. If we aren't winning, then we need to make fun of carolina to pick us up.

I even picked them to win the whole thing in my bracket because they were loaded, but of course when we lost the only thing that was gonna console me was a carolina loss. And doing it the way they did made it extra special.