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CMS2478
05-04-2007, 10:02 AM
Please tell me that someone else noticed this. I thought the ref that had the altercation with "Timmy" was out of line and now there is another one. During the Rockets/Jazz game last night Okur (Jazz) pumped fake and tried to get Juwan Howard (Rockets) to jump into him. He was successful and Howard jumped into him and the ref on top of the play called a foul. Then Okur preceded to jump up and try to attack Howard. Howard was just standing there and said/did absolutely nothing. The ref on the other side of the court comes running across the floor and T's Howard up. If anything it should have been on Okur and why did the ref come all the way across the floor when there was a ref who made the initial call right there. I don't know the name of the ref (some old guy who appeared to be about 70) but you could clearly see the disbelief on the face of Howard. I know they are cracking down with technicals this year but this was absolutely terrible. Howard handled it much better than I would have and I really hope that the ref watches the tape or Sportscenter so he can see how wrong he was.


P.S. Why does Okur get mad at Howard jumping into him when that is what he was trying to get him to do??? Okur was a punk last night.

BOOOOOOOOOO on the NBA refs right now!!! :mad:

dukeENG2003
05-04-2007, 10:30 AM
it was Dick Bavetta (sp?) that T'd him up. Not that it means much (b/c it occured after the T), but Howard kind of justified the T by his reaction (touching the ref is a no-no).

The way I thought it should have been called is this:

it should have been a flagrant 1 on Howard for excessive contact, instead of a foul and a technical (not only did he hit Okur, but he grabbed him and pulled him down, this is likely what Okur took umbrage with), and then a technical on Okur for reacting to it the way he did. I really can't understand why Okur escaped punishment, he elevated the situation to a far more volatile level.

CMS2478
05-04-2007, 10:33 AM
it was Dick Bavetta (sp?) that T'd him up. Howard kind of justified the T by his reaction though.

The way I thought it should have been called is this:

it should have been a flagrant 1 (not only did he hit Okur, but he grabbed him and pulled him down, this is likely what Okur took umbrage with), and then a technical on Okur for reacting to it the way he did.

I would respectfully disagree, I will give you that Howard caught Okur in the head but that was accidental. His arms were just flying and it just kind of glanced. As far as the reaction, like I said I would have went crazy if that had been called on me and I thought he handled it fairly well after the initial shock wore off. He didn't continue to cry about it the whole game like most NBA players do. You can't say that he deserved bc of his reaction when the T should have never been called in the first place.

darthur
05-04-2007, 11:02 AM
He didn't continue to cry about it the whole game like most NBA players do.

Sometimes I wonder if you guys are watching the same NBA that I watch...

feldspar
05-04-2007, 11:12 AM
I agree that the T shouldn't have been called, but come on. This is the NBA. The penalty is one free throw. Isolated technical fouls mean nothing in the NBA.

91_92_01_10_15
05-04-2007, 11:54 AM
I think it was a combative act and that Howard should be suspended immediately!

CMS2478
05-04-2007, 12:19 PM
I agree that the T shouldn't have been called, but come on. This is the NBA. The penalty is one free throw. Isolated technical fouls mean nothing in the NBA.

Feldspar,

I agree that it didn't (and most technicals don't) affect the outcome of the game, but that doesn't excuse the ref from being whistle happy. I guess my main complaint wasn't even really the technical itself, I just hate it when refs make a call when they are nowhere near the particular play and there is a ref standing on top of the play. It just seems to me that they try to create things that they should let go, like last night.

CMS2478
05-04-2007, 12:21 PM
Sometimes I wonder if you guys are watching the same NBA that I watch...

We were watching the game.............I said in my post that reacted when it was first called, as most people would. But once they started shooting free-throws I didn't see him complaining about it anymore. I saw Van Gundy complaining, but not Howard. If he did I guess I missed it. :confused:

Classof06
05-04-2007, 01:12 PM
Absolutely no way Juwan Howard deserved a technical for the initial foul. This is the NBA playoffs, people. This is the 6th game of a series between two teams that don't like each other; hell, Shane and Carlos were going at it like they don't even know each other. Hard fouls are going to happen, and it was Okur that initiated contact by leaning into Howard. I was watching the play live and thought Howard got a raw deal. IMHO, I don't think either should have gotten T'd up. They should have been separated and then Okur should have taken his free throw shots.

As bad as Bavetta messed up by giving Howard a T, I thought he did a great job by not overreacting to the fact that Howard touched him. I initially thought Howard was going to get ejected immediately after making contact, but I'm glad Bavetta understood that Howard's reaction was out of sheer shock and that he put himself in very close proximity to Howard to begin with. That shows Bavetta's experience and I'm glad he didn't eject Howard because many refs would have.

feldspar
05-04-2007, 01:20 PM
As bad as Bavetta messed up by giving Howard a T, I thought he did a great job by not overreacting to the fact that Howard touched him. I initially thought Howard was going to get ejected immediately after making contact, but I'm glad Bavetta understood that Howard's reaction was out of sheer shock and that he put himself in very close proximity to Howard to begin with. That shows Bavetta's experience and I'm glad he didn't eject Howard because many refs would have.


Agreed, and great point, C. Bavetta would have been well within his rights to toss Howard. I think perhaps he knew that he kicked it with the T and swallowed his whistle as a result.

darthur
05-04-2007, 01:28 PM
We were watching the game.............I said in my post that reacted when it was first called, as most people would. But once they started shooting free-throws I didn't see him complaining about it anymore. I saw Van Gundy complaining, but not Howard. If he did I guess I missed it. :confused:

I didn't actually watch this game, so I wasn't commenting about Howard at all. What I was questioning was your assertion that most other NBA players DO cry about bad calls all game. I love college basketball, but as far as I can tell, NBA players are generally more professional about things like isolated bad calls than college players are.

CMS2478
05-04-2007, 01:58 PM
Agreed, and great point, C. Bavetta would have been well within his rights to toss Howard. I think perhaps he knew that he kicked it with the T and swallowed his whistle as a result.

I do have to give Bavetta credit there. He very easily could have tossed Howard, but I'm glad he didn't since his original call was bogus in the first place. But he did maintain professionalism by not overacting to Howard bumping into his arm.

dukeENG2003
05-04-2007, 02:28 PM
I dunno, I still maintain that it should have been a flagrant on howard (excessive contact, not necessarily intent), especially given that he pulls him down after hitting him in the head. Watch this replay, at about the 1:06 mark, he grabs Okur's shoulder/arm on the way down as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJJ_rWBgZJg

Also, I really don't see how Okur is so innocent in all of this. Nothing got out of hand until he grabbed/shoulder charged Howard as he got up. I stand by my earlier position, Howard: flagrant 1 (not a foul+technical, JUST a flagrant 1, which is actually less of a penalty), Okur, Technical foul.

And for those creditting howard about not continuing to whine. He didn't do so ON THE COURT. HOWEVER. . .

Did you not hear during the halftime show when they said (I quote looseley here) "Howard has expressed that he is very angry about it and will be giving Billy Hunter a call about it after the game. That its not just the foul, but its the principle of it"? Admittedly, we didn't hear this out of his mouth, but I have no reason to disbelieve the TNT broadcasters that he said this

Classof06
05-04-2007, 02:53 PM
I dunno, I still maintain that it should have been a flagrant on howard (excessive contact, not necessarily intent), especially given that he pulls him down after hitting him in the head. Watch this replay, at about the 1:06 mark, he grabs Okur's shoulder/arm on the way down as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJJ_rWBgZJg

Also, I really don't see how Okur is so innocent in all of this. Nothing got out of hand until he grabbed/shoulder charged Howard as he got up. I stand by my earlier position, Howard: flagrant 1 (not a foul+technical, JUST a flagrant 1, which is actually less of a penalty), Okur, Technical foul.

And for those creditting howard about not continuing to whine. He didn't do so ON THE COURT. HOWEVER. . .

Did you not hear during the halftime show when they said (I quote looseley here) "Howard has expressed that he is very angry about it and will be giving Billy Hunter a call about it after the game. That its not just the foul, but its the principle of it"? Admittedly, we didn't hear this out of his mouth, but I have no reason to disbelieve the TNT broadcasters that he said this


I'm pretty sure TNT said that it was Van Gundy saying he'd call Billy Hunter, not Howard.

_Gary
05-04-2007, 04:11 PM
But he did maintain professionalism by not overacting to Howard bumping into his arm.

Howard did a heck of a lot more than bump into his arm, IMHO! He put his hands on the ref - on purpose! You don't do that. Period.

dukeENG2003
05-05-2007, 04:53 PM
I'm pretty sure TNT said that it was Van Gundy saying he'd call Billy Hunter, not Howard.

hmm, I was doing dishes during halftime, so I could have heard it wrong. . .