Shot Clock Counting

[Gewebe14]

Does anyone else thing it is not smart for Crazies to count down the opposing team's shot clock 2-3 seconds early every time? If opponents know they are doing that, which every ACC team does, then they know exactly how much time they have left. If instead they counted sometimes early, sometimes late, and sometimes not at all, we would have a better chance of getting a defensive shot clock violation. Noticed this last night against Clemson, only once did the clock go down without counting and it led to the Nolan dunk and would have been a violation for sure otherwise.

[PumpkinFunk]

With the real Crazies, it often is the case that we switch it up and sometimes count it early, sometimes late. Not sure why they did it consistently last night, though.

[hurleyfor3]

I think it's easier for everyone to sort of agree to start at "10..." when the clock is really at 13 or 14, than to wait until it gets to 7 or 8.

Like most cheers that "everyone" does nowadays, our track record of doing it is much longer. I will not claim here we started it -- that claim is starting to get cliched, even when it's true -- but we have been doing the "false shotclock" thing since at least the late 1980s.

[SCMatt33]

I don't think there are many ACC players who seriously listen to the opposing fans' countdown. They have a big shot clock right in front of them to look at. If anything, the counting just alerts them that it's time to check how much time is really left.

[Gewebe14]

I don't think there are many ACC players who seriously listen to the opposing fans' countdown. They have a big shot clock right in front of them to look at. If anything, the counting just alerts them that it's time to check how much time is really left.

Thats what I'm saying -- in case they did lose track, the counting is a great reminder for them to check out the REAL shot clock. We should probably not count at all.

[delfrio]

The late counting always seemed more appealing to me. Assuming the players actually listen, why force a shot when you can get a turnover?

[uh_no]

I don't think there are many ACC players who seriously listen to the opposing fans' countdown. They have a big shot clock right in front of them to look at. If anything, the counting just alerts them that it's time to check how much time is really left.

every once in a while an opponent will jack up a shot as the count hits zero...with time left on the shot clock

a noticeable incident was when the girl from tennessee hit a three at the fake buzzer....then pat S. glared at the students

[buckshot]

They should start it at the actual shot clock time then speed the count up, like they do on free throws.

[Lord Ash]

I have seen players jack it up with "zero" on the student count but 3 left on the real clock COUNTLESS times. It actually seems like the only actually-effective chant in the game! Often times under pressure just hearing a count like that can get into someones head.

[Oriole Way]

I actually thought of making a post addressing this tendency by the Crazies, and asking them to stop.

Over the years, I have seen many players rush a shot because of the fake countdown and drain a bucket, to the point I really dislike the tactic. I believe that in most instances, especially from now on, when we will be facing ACC competition, that no shot is better than a rushed shot by who will most likely be a talented guard. I would like to see Crazies make lots of noise but not remind opponents that the shot clock is winding down.

While in theory it's great to cause a player to heave up a rushed attempt, there are three big problems:

1. If the ball is in a good player's hands, they will put up a shot and hit it. I've seen this happen tons of times over the years, including a few times this season. Oftentimes, especially against elite opponents, the opposing team will have its point guard or playmaker with the ball in their hands when the fake shot clock countdown starts. Many times, that means one of their best shooters is forced to take a shot under pressure, and they will hit the shot at a decent percentage. There are many times that the rushed attempt leads to a poor missed shot, but I feel that it is much better to allow for the chance of a shot clock violation. Too many made shots and too many missed shot clock violation opportunities have resulted from this practice, in my opinion.

2. A rushed shot usually means that Duke's own players might not be expecting a shot and might not be in ideal defensive rebounding position, and missed attempts will lead to an offensive rebound for the opposing team. This has been especially true in the past, since historically Duke has not been a great rebounding team. Obviously Duke is a much better rebounding team this year than in season's past, but again, I would rather the Crazies make noise so that opponents don't realize that the shot clock is even winding down.

3. As others have mentioned, the more savvy/experienced players will realize they have a few extra seconds to attempt a shot, so that the Crazies are in essence reminding the opposing team that the shot clock is expiring. Opposing guards will either know that the countdown is premature, and/or they will look up to see how much time they actually have. Why give the opponent such a reminder when it's possible they have lost track of the shot clock altogether?

I don't mind the fake shot clock countdown against weak opponents pre-ACC, but from now until the end of the season, I would like to see it discontinued.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I'd rather we started counting 10 at about the 3 second mark...

[DukeSean]

I'd rather we started counting 10 at about the 3 second mark...

I'm with you there...that would be more effective I think. Rather them not take a shot at all than to rush one.

[gep]

I'd rather we started counting 10 at about the 3 second mark...

I was about to post this same comment after reading through the posts. At 5 seconds, start counting from 9... after all, 9 "may" look like a 5 at quick glance... or even 8. In any case, the player thinks he has more time...:rolleyes:

[CDu]

I think it's easier for everyone to sort of agree to start at "10..." when the clock is really at 13 or 14, than to wait until it gets to 7 or 8.

Like most cheers that "everyone" does nowadays, our track record of doing it is much longer. I will not claim here we started it -- that claim is starting to get cliched, even when it's true -- but we have been doing the "false shotclock" thing since at least the late 1980s.

As have (I'm sure) plenty of other places. I know that it was common practice at my high school in the mid-80s (not when I was there, but I went to games as a kid) to do this for the "end" of each quarter (no shot clocks in high school). If it was done in my high school, it was probably pretty common.

As for the cheer, I never understood why people simulate the buzzer going off at the end of the countdown. In either case, the fans' fake buzzer sound doesn't really accomplish anything.

As for the cheer itself, I think it's value decreases with overuse. Selective use and variation (i.e., sometimes doing it early, sometimes late) would have a better effect.

I also agree that the cheer can have adverse outcomes. Chanting early reduces the likelihood of a violation, but perhaps increases the chance for a miss. There's a tradeoff there.