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JasonEvans
12-30-2009, 01:15 PM
I know it is not new news, but what on Earth happened at UCLA? I mean, having a down year is one thing but this is just ridiculous.

I happened to be glancing at some of the computer rankings and the such this morning and noticed the following--

RPI - UCLA is #246, stuck in between Georgia State and Maine. They are ranked below such powers as 2-9 Elon, 3-8 South Dakota State, 3-8 Louisiana-Monroe, and the feared 0-8 Gardner-Webb.

Sagarin - UCLA is #192, looking up at #191 North Florida and down at #193 Campbell. 3-6 Youngstown State is ahead of them.

Ken Pom - He's got them the highest at #141. 4-7 UNC-Wilmington is well ahead of the Bruins.

Look, I can understand a program having a down year and struggling in conference. I mean, look at Duke in 1995 and UNC in 2002. But this is a little bit ridiculous. UCLA has home losses to Mississippi St (by 18) and Call St-Fullerton. They've also lost to Portland (by 27) and Long Beach State (by 11). Their best win is a victory over Colorado State. They do not have a single win over a BCS conference team.

Is Howland in trouble? His recruiting lately has been either 1-and-done kids or kids who just seem overmatched against decent opponents. The roster is soooo local -- 13 kids from California and just 5 from anywhere else.

Whew... just sad to see such a storied program -- one of the programs that fancies itself up there with Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, and UNC -- fall like this.

--Jason "Where is the team that made 3-straight Final Fours from 2006-2008?" Evans

Clipsfan
12-30-2009, 02:16 PM
Trust me - this is an issue of concern for those of us here in Los Angeles. It's gotten so bad that multiple people called to offer me tickets to the UCLA-Kansas game the morning of the game. Pauley is EMPTY these days.

roywhite
12-30-2009, 02:29 PM
It's a shocking decline, I agree.

Just my theory:
1. Howland stresses such a physical, defensive oriented game that he burns out the players in his program.
2. The style of play has also begun to turn off recruits.
3. Howland hasn't diversified his recruiting very much---doesn't get the balance of NBA early entrant types and 4-year players that Coach K, Roy Williams, etc. have learned how to do, and for some reason is not getting kids from out of the area.

ice-9
12-30-2009, 03:23 PM
More likely: Howland was extremely lucky with a few recruits that carried him to several Final Fours. Now it's moved towards the mean with a few recruits who haven't panned out.

I remain convinced Howland is an excellent coach.

But that's the way it goes with recruiting sometime. As Duke fans, we should know all too well how this works.

roywhite
12-30-2009, 03:37 PM
More likely: Howland was extremely lucky with a few recruits that carried him to several Final Fours. Now it's moved towards the mean with a few recruits who haven't panned out.

I remain convinced Howland is an excellent coach.

But that's the way it goes with recruiting sometime. As Duke fans, we should know all too well how this works.


Well, recruiting is tricky and programs are not always on an up-cycle. But a "rebuilding" year for Duke was 2006-7 with a 22-11 record (and 1995, with the special circumstances of K's surgery and absence). UCLA's RPI #246, KenPom #141, etc...that's major.

For Duke fans, it's another indication of how consistent our program has been under Coach K. For UCLA fans, this drop off the table has got to be puzzling.

SoCalDukeFan
12-30-2009, 06:44 PM
It's a shocking decline, I agree.

Just my theory:
1. Howland stresses such a physical, defensive oriented game that he burns out the players in his program.
2. The style of play has also begun to turn off recruits.
3. Howland hasn't diversified his recruiting very much---doesn't get the balance of NBA early entrant types and 4-year players that Coach K, Roy Williams, etc. have learned how to do, and for some reason is not getting kids from out of the area.

I pretty much agree with Roy White's first two points. (I guess the 3rd point is correct as when you have all 4 year players you don't have balance.) I would add that he had some recent unexpected losses. I doubt if he thought that Jrue Holiday would leave after one year, leaving him with no good option at point guard. He also lost Drew Gordon this year. Take away your star sophmore point guard and a starting big man, and most teams have problems. The style of play could have contributed to Holiday's leaving and was certainly a factor in Gordon's.

Then throw in a recruiting mistake or two. J'mison Morgan was ranked as the 3rd best center in his class but does not play much. Maybe a style of play issue, who knows?

Howland was successful at Pitt and Northen Az with less than top level recruits. His style fit perfectly because he was not going to get the stud players anyway. Now he gets them but they don't like his system and leave.

He is too good a coach and too competitive to stay down for long. Lazeric Jones considered by some to be the top JC point guard has commited to UCLA for next year.

SoCal

JasonEvans
12-30-2009, 10:55 PM
He is too good a coach and too competitive to stay down for long. Lazeric Jones considered by some to be the top JC point guard has commited to UCLA for next year.

A juco!??!?! Oh the humanity!! How can he stoop that low? Does he have no scruples?!?!

Uhhhhhh, wait. Nevermind ;)

-Jason

ice-9
12-31-2009, 01:10 AM
Well, recruiting is tricky and programs are not always on an up-cycle. But a "rebuilding" year for Duke was 2006-7 with a 22-11 record (and 1995, with the special circumstances of K's surgery and absence). UCLA's RPI #246, KenPom #141, etc...that's major.

For Duke fans, it's another indication of how consistent our program has been under Coach K. For UCLA fans, this drop off the table has got to be puzzling.


Well, Coach K is an extraordinary coach. :)

throatybeard
12-31-2009, 01:12 AM
This really throws into relief how spoiled and unreasonable our fans are for acting like the apocalypse is occurring when we go 30-something and single digit and lose in the Sweet 16.

Lord Ash
12-31-2009, 01:29 AM
This really throws into relief how spoiled and unreasonable our fans are for acting like the apocalypse is occurring when we go 30-something and single digit and lose in the Sweet 16.

To be fair, it isn't just Duke fans that act like the sky is falling; the rest of the world seems to act that way too.

WiJoe
12-31-2009, 01:33 AM
GO USC!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Fight on!!!!!!!!!!!




:D

smvalkyries
12-31-2009, 01:48 AM
Howland is a very good coach but he plays an east coast physical defensive style that is entirely different from the general west coast playground approach. Actually I am always leery when we recruit a player from California as the styles are so different and it usually takes west coasters a long time to adjust to the physical play of the ACC if they ever do.
Howland was lucky with his first few teams in that he inherited other people's recruits put them in a "better " (read winning) system and then subsequently cashed in on the UCLA name and tradition before word got out to his California recruits that run and gun was more fun (and/or going to USC is immediatley more profitable).
I live within walking distance of UCLA (and the Playboy mansion) and am personnally happy to see a real down year every once in a while just so they (UCLA aumni) retain some contact with humility. There is so much raw talent out here that if UCLA could consistently get their local recruits to play as physically and mentally tough as the average ACC player we would all be in deep trouble most every year come tournament time.

SeattleIrish
12-31-2009, 04:21 AM
Come on...give us a juicey story about the Hef's place!:D

s.i.

oldnavy
12-31-2009, 07:43 AM
This really throws into relief how spoiled and unreasonable our fans are for acting like the apocalypse is occurring when we go 30-something and single digit and lose in the Sweet 16.

Brother, aint that the truth!