Last nonconference MBB game

[gofurman]

Every year it comes to a discussion near Feb/March of "is Duke tired ?".

Last year I posted that I wished we would skip an OOC game late in the year and take a week off - UNC, most all ACC teams do this.

Seems a very easy way to rest... yet, I see we did this again:

02/21 7:45 Virginia Tech Durham NC FSN
02/25 7:00 Tulsa Durham NC espn2
02/28 7:45 Virginia Charlottesville VA FSN

Anyone else agree that skipping Tulsa might be a good thing?

It's a game in Feb (when the fatigue starts to hit) and really doesn't help that much... I was really hoping to see us take a week off like most all the other ACC teams this year.

[BlueintheFace]

Every year it comes to a discussion near Feb/March of "is Duke tired ?".

Last year I posted that I wished we would skip an OOC game late in the year and take a week off - UNC, most all ACC teams do this.

Seems a very easy way to rest... yet, I see we did this again:

02/21 7:45 Virginia Tech Durham NC FSN
02/25 7:00 Tulsa Durham NC espn2
02/28 7:45 Virginia Charlottesville VA FSN

Anyone else agree that skipping Tulsa might be a good thing?

It's a game in Feb (when the fatigue starts to hit) and really doesn't help that much... I was really hoping to see us take a week off like most all the other ACC teams this year.

I predict the 40 minute-long home game against Tulsa will ruin our season by killing any chance of having our guys fresh in March. Those 40 minutes could be the difference between the sweet 16 and Final Four.

[Highlander]

K has always had a late season non conf game on the schedule. It has been St. John's, Notre Dame, and Temple in past years. The primary reason is that by that point in the season you are playing conference teams that, in all likelihood, you have already played once and may play again in the conference tournament. So they are familiar. A non-conf game late in the season is a good way to prep for the NCAA tournament by playing an unfamiliar team. Your season isn't over if you lose, like it would be in the NCAA tourney.

I can see your point that an extra day or two of rest might be more beneficial, but considering the tournament is still 2 weeks away an extra day or two of rest at that point is too far away to make a noticeable difference IMO. You'd be better off tanking the ACC Tourney to avoid 3 games in 3 days the week before.

[mo.st.dukie]

In 04 Duke played Valpo on Februrary 26 and the team did pretty well in the tournament that year. In 01 Duke played St. John's on February 18 and that team won the title.

Let's face the facts, the reason Duke hasn't done well in the tournament the last 4-5 years wasn't tired legs but the result of not having a talented enough/complete roster.

[Kedsy]

You'd be better off tanking the ACC Tourney to avoid 3 games in 3 days the week before.

Good point. That's what UNC did last year.

[Devilsfan]

Tulsa would be a good time to play the bench just in case they're called upon in the tourney because of foul trouble or unforseen injuries. Much like the NFL after a playoff berth is secured, play the veterns the first 10-12 mins.

[MarkD83]

I think a game at that time of the year is less intense than Duke's practices.

At least in a game only 5 players are on the court at a time.

[Kedsy]

Tulsa would be a good time to play the bench just in case they're called upon in the tourney because of foul trouble or unforseen injuries. Much like the NFL after a playoff berth is secured, play the veterns the first 10-12 mins.

First of all, we only have 9 scholarship players. I'm assuming the "veterns" you advocate resting are only the 3 S's, because otherwise you're talking about playing walkons for significant minutes. One problem with that is Jon, Kyle, and Nolan include our only two PGs and 3 of our 4 perimeter players, so I'm not sure how practical it is.

A bigger problem is that Tulsa is not some Division II team. They were 24-11 last year and are 8-3 this year, ranked #78 by Sagarin (#50 by Sagarin "predictor," which is supposed to be a better indicator for a particular game), #47 by Pomeroy, and #86 RPI. If we want to win, we'll have to be more serious than just playing our starters for the first 10 or 12 minutes.

[duketaylor]

http://www.kiva.net/~jsagarin/sports/cbsend.htm

I don't tink such a game really hampers Duke any; I'd prefer that Duke leads games by large amounts and would pull Singler and Scheyer earlier than he has in previous games/years. Keep them under 35 mins/game on average.

[Bob Green]

A non-conf game late in the season is a good way to prep for the NCAA tournament by playing an unfamiliar team.

I'm a big fan of the late season non-conference game because of the reason Highlander points out. I wish we would play a much tougher opponent. That comment isn't intended as a slight to Tulsa who is a quality team, but a look back at some of the marquee teams we played in the 80s and 90s is intriguing:

2/22/86: (2) Duke 93 - 84 win over (10) Oklahoma
2/15/87: (15) Duke 66 - 70 loss at Notre Dame
2/20/88: (6) Duke 74 - 70 win at Kansas in OT
2/18/89: (11) Duke 102 - 77 win over Kansas
2/25/90: (3) Duke 78 - 76 win over (21) Arizona
2/24/91: (7) Duke 96 - 103 loss at (9) Arizona in double OT
3/1/92: (1) Duke 75 - 65 win at (4) UCLA
2/28/93: (9) Duke 78 -67 win over UCLA
2/27/94: (2) Duke 59 - 47 win over (8) Temple
2/26/95: Duke 77 - 100 loss at (2) UCLA
2/25/96: Duke 85 - 66 win over UCLA
2/23/97: (6) Duke 69 - 73 loss at (17) UCLA
2/22/98: (2) Duke 120 - 84 win over (12) UCLA

It would be really exciting to see a Home and Away series with another Top 25 non-conference opponent such as the series we played with UCLA.

[Dukeford]

Remember, we're talking about 18-21 year olds here.
They often play every day in the summer.

Last year's team had 5 days of rest before the Villanova game.
Did they lose by 23 because they needed more rest?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Count me in with the camp that thinks the possibility of Duke "being tired" is a non issue regarding the number/quality of pre-conference games.

The major issue for Duke this season will be inside play when it comes down to the big games.

There are some really strong teams in the paint this year that could ultimately wear the team down during a game, but it won't have anything to do with the other games played.

PS-pun not initially intended, but recognized upon review;)

[hood7]

UNC usually takes an extra day or two of rest towards the end of the ACC Tournament. While it may pay dividends for the Heels in the NCAAs, I don't want to see us copy that pattern.

[NSDukeFan]

UNC usually takes an extra day or two of rest towards the end of the ACC Tournament. While it may pay dividends for the Heels in the NCAAs, I don't want to see us copy that pattern.

You never know what is going to happen in the one and done NCAAs. You win championships whenever you get a chance, especially ACC.

[gofurman]

In 04 Duke played Valpo on Februrary 26 and the team did pretty well in the tournament that year. In 01 Duke played St. John's on February 18 and that team won the title.

Let's face the facts, the reason Duke hasn't done well in the tournament the last 4-5 years wasn't tired legs but the result of not having a talented enough/complete roster.

I guess you know better than our own players ?

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1415860
..."We were all just kind of worn out at the end of last year," Krzyzewski said...
..."Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski mentioned freshman Kyle Singler as being tired in the ACC Tournament -- "
I am just going by quotes from the team and K.

Not to focus so much on the Tulsa game but several other ACC teams in most years take 5/6 days off which has to help with muscle and mental fatigue I would think. Like I said, I am using quotes from our own team.

I do understand the reason for wanting to see non-acc teams. Just wish we had a week off.

[gofurman]

Count me in with the camp that thinks the possibility of Duke "being tired" is a non issue regarding the number/quality of pre-conference games.

The major issue for Duke this season will be inside play when it comes down to the big games.

There are some really strong teams in the paint this year that could ultimately wear the team down during a game, but it won't have anything to do with the other games played.

PS-pun not initially intended, but recognized upon review;)

I hear you but I didn't say just "pre-conference" games. It could be just a week off anywhere. I would think a 6/7 day break in mid Feb might be good.

[gofurman]

Remember, we're talking about 18-21 year olds here.
They often play every day in the summer.

Last year's team had 5 days of rest before the Villanova game.
Did they lose by 23 because they needed more rest?

C'mon now - that was a bad matchup we would have lost regardless. So in a sense you are right: that Villanova loss would have probably occurred no matter what. I agree. But you are picking one example. We would lose to the Lakers no matter how rested we are.

I am talking about close games where the talent and matchups are relatively even. Just quoting our coach and players. Anyway, I have seen Singler, K, and others mention it.

[Bob Green]

Just quoting our coach and players. Anyway, I have seen Singler, K, and others mention it.

I have also seen the quotes as have most, if not all, the posters participating in this thread. However, I believe you are making more out of the coach and players statement than is actually there. Don't you believe, if Coach Krzyzewski was really concerned about the team being tired, that he would stop scheduling the late season out-of-conference game? Coach Krzyzewski has the power to change the schedule but that late February game is there year after year.

[oldnavy]

I continue to believe that the games do not stress the players out as much as practice does. If K believes that the team got tired last year, then he will most likely reduce the intensity of practices late in the season. If you think about it, game play is no longer than 4 minutes without a time out (TV games), then you have the regular TO's plus half time. You are talking about 18-20 year olds playing no more than 35 minutes over a 2 hour period. I cannot believe that would be a factor in fatigue. On the other hand, 2-3 hour practices 4-5 days a week, sure that could make anyone tired.