MBB: Duke 76 Gonzaga 41 Post-Game Thread [Archive]

FireOgilvie

12-19-2009, 06:09 PM

I think Gonzaga's starting lineup is at least as good as Duke's, probably better. The difference is that their big men, Sacre and Harris, can post and score with their backs to the basket. They are very skilled and coordinated big men; both are NBA prospects, imo. It doesn't end there, though. Their de facto point guard Matt Bouldin is an All-American candidate. Strong, quick, very skilled, very smart. He's Scheyer with more strength. Steven Gray is a very good shooter with good athleticism and smarts as well. Their "weakest" starter is Demetri Goodson who is quick but isn't as skilled an offensive threat as his teammates. Still, that's a very talented and well-rounded starting lineup. The Zags aren't deep, though, so a physical game with lots of fouls called would maybe tilt the advantage towards Duke. This will be the best team we've played so far this season.

I disagree with you that Gonzaga's starting lineup is better. Scheyer is absolutely better than Bouldin. It's not just that Scheyer averages more points, more assists, and fewer turnovers while playing against better competition for a better team; Scheyer is a more intelligent player. I think Scheyer is a first team All-American right now. Singler is also better than everyone on Gonzaga's team (I think we can all agree with this). Nolan would probably be Gonzaga's 2nd leading scorer. Their big men are good (and you could be right about them being possible NBA prospects in the future - I honestly haven't paid that much attention to them this year), but they're also young, and I wouldn't say they have much of an advantage there over the Plumlees or whoever we decide to start.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I love Jon as a player -- how could you not? -- but there's nothing that he can do that Bouldin can't. And Bouldin is stronger.

There's a chance Bouldin won't play in this game because he became concussed two games ago and missed Gonzaga's previous game, but if his noggin is right, I can't wait to play him and see how we defend him. He's too strong for Nolan and Jon; he'd just take them to the post and work them. I think the best defensive matchups will be to put Singler on Bouldin, have Jon chase Gray, and put Nolan on Goodson with an eye on playing off and helping since Goodson isn't a great shooter.

Nope, we part ways here as well.

I would rank the top 10 players on the court like this:

1) Bouldin (again, hopefully his head isn't screwed up)
2) Scheyer
3) Singler
4) Harris
5) Gray
6) Sacre
7) Nolan
8) Dawkins
9) Goodson
10) Lance

I think Singler will eventually develop into a consistent All American player this season but he's not there yet.

See, that's the thing. You'd have to have watched them this season to understand. This is a serious, serious basketball team. Don't be misled by the loss to Wake Forest where Harris was ejected in the first half. Every team plays a stinker here and there. Duke will, too. But on average, this Duke-Gonzaga game is going to be an Elite 8 quality game.

I'm really happy to see that I was right and you were wrong.

Great win today.

Ryan Kelly was awesome.

VaDukie

12-19-2009, 06:11 PM

Scheyer was magnificent as always, Nolan had a great game, Zoubek and Lance did there thing down low, and Kelly had some solid minutes. All in all not a bad way to head into Christmas break.

Kfan4Life

12-19-2009, 06:12 PM

Nolan looked really good today. He is going to the right spots on the floor to score. Zoubek had another really solid game. Our interior defense was excellent.

geraldsneighbor

12-19-2009, 06:13 PM

Duke's defense didn't allow a single Bulldog to reach double-figures. That was a good way to go into the holiday. Kyle after starting slow had a chance for a double-double. Ryan looked great. Jon and Nolan were outstanding. Zoub and Lance again looked good.

My heart fell to my stomach for a second when Mason went down on that wrist with about 12 minutes to go but my worries were put to bed when he had that put back one hand dunk.

Good victory on a day the Holes gave up triple digits, we held a ranked team under 40 for over 39 minutes.

Bob Green

12-19-2009, 06:13 PM

The game was ugly at times especially during the first half. However, we just beat the #15 ranked team in the country by 35 points and held them to 41 points. Yes, Gonzaga'a offense was horrible but Duke's defense deserves a lot of credit for making them look bad. This was a good win prior to the team taking a 10 day break.

Smith and Scheyer played great today.

DukieBoy

12-19-2009, 06:14 PM

Scheyer, Singler, MP2, and Kelley all looked good today. Great win to send us all off into the holidays. Hope everyone has a great holidays.

jpfrizzle

12-19-2009, 06:14 PM

...and some people were worried going up against Gonzaga :rolleyes:

Ryan's hands was sticky tonight, he can play some good ball.

Z was impressive tonight. Way to go Zoubs!!

Im trying to decide between Scheyer and Nolan for MOTM

Plumlee2 made some good plays, but still got to work on things.

Overall, great game!!! (read my sig)

BlueintheFace

12-19-2009, 06:15 PM

Our Defense was superb. Great win.

I have lots of thoughts that I'll get into later, but I just want to throw this out there as a point that might get overlooked.

Ryan Kelly blocks JUST like the Landlord. He plants his feet solid and reaches for the ball at the point of release. I like this kid's game more and more every game. He has good vision and took his shots this game without hesitation. I see good things for him with time. Priority 1 is to work on his body this coming off season.

Indoor66

12-19-2009, 06:15 PM

Scheyer, Singler, MP2, and Kelley all looked good today. Great win to send us all off into the holidays. Hope everyone has a great holidays.

What about Smith & Zoubek?

flyingdutchdevil

12-19-2009, 06:15 PM

I think this game can be easily broken down into two phases: first ten minutes, next 30 minutes.

First 10 minutes: Probably some of the best defenses I've seen in a while from both teams. And the worst offenses. 12 points total in 10 minutes (or something like that)? Really... wow.

Next 30 minutes: Now for the more entertaining part. I noticed a few things:
-Nolan and Scheyer played great. Especially Nolan. He was the only scoring when no one else was and everyone seemed to follow suit. Also, Nolan's D was absolutely nasty. The Zag's best player had a horrible game because of it. Clearly our player of the game. The way Nolan and Scheyer play off of each other and set each other for assists is one of the most beautiful things I've seen from Duke in a really long time. They really seem to love playing with each other. They were giggling and laughing when they were on the bench towards the end of the game.
-Ryan Kelly has some amazing basketball instincts. Despite not being able to jump as high as the rest of his teammates, the guy has a knack for getting blocks. It's uncanny - I thought he would never lead our team in blocks. I can't wait to see great things from him.
-Zoubs played well. Thomas play alright. However, Singler didn't have a good game. Here's what I noticed about Singler - he tries to take over games but can't seem to find "it". When the whole team was struggling, he kept shooting (and missing) and driving (and turning the ball over). Unfortunately, as much as I like him, I don't think he's the star player on this team. It's also debatable if he's the second best player on this team (I feel Nolan is more consistent). He is our most versatile player, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's our best player. He had a fairly poor offensive game, but at least his defense was great.

Anyway, that's it. Great showing by our team. I really hope Nolan and Scheyer play together like that more, because it really is some of the best basketball to watch when it happens. Plus, Nolan's smile is so damn contageous.

Greg_Newton

12-19-2009, 06:15 PM

I can't believe we collapsed at the end and didn't even double them up. I'm done with this team.

But seriously, that was almost as fun as the Maryland game from last year, in a weird, gritty kind of way. I'm really happy to see Kelly looking like something has clicked for him - it's like he realized "Wait a minute, I'm better than most guys I play against. I'm going to start doing whatever I want out there." The strides he's made since this summer are astounding.

Z continues to play like a difference-making ACC center. He wasn't just being big today, he was keeping the ball high and finishing, moving surprisingly quickly and intelligently, and snapping up everything near him like he had velcro hands.

IMO, this was a very important game for Nolan. I was getting ready to accept that okay, maybe our pre-season expectations were a little lofty for him. However, he was the best player on the court tonight in a big game. Glad to see he still (correctly) believes he's an elite player.

Hopefully refs start believing Miles can reach the ball when it's above the rim soon. That said, I hope he learns that he post defense is different than being an offensive lineman... you can't be the one that initiates the contact. If he'd back off a sliver just before the shot and went for the block rather than surging into his man with his lower body, he'd be a much better (and less foul prone) defender.

Great game overall though. Certain players are playing far below their potential, but considering we just blew out a top-15 team by 35, that's a great thing!

Troublemaker

12-19-2009, 06:16 PM

I'm really happy to see that I was right and you were wrong.

Great win today.

Ryan Kelly was awesome.

No doubt, I was way off on this one.

Duke's defense put another whooping on a good team in MSG. A nice early X-mas present for us fans.

gwwilburn

12-19-2009, 06:17 PM

Nice. This was as convincing a win to me as the UConn win was, even if the Zags and the Huskies are two different tiered opponents. Jon and Nolan are great, and Kyle got it together and had a nice game on the other end, even if he did not shoot very well. Kelly had his best game so far, the bigs held it together, and it was a high-quality win. For some gloating, I've gotta say, we allow 41 points, that unmentionable team 103.

Wildcat

12-19-2009, 06:20 PM

I liked what I saw today. We are truly a SOLID team. Mason appears to have some PO; Kelly surprised me a little; I like it. I hope continues to grow and develop as a player. Jon is Jon, SOLID. Nolan had a nice game today; Zoubs, I knew it all along. At 7 foot, he's good for something. He may not be what many want him to be, but let him play his style and he will be a vital component for this team.

Overall, good game! Way to go guys. We will continue to pray for you Andre, God Bless You buddy and hang in there.

Poincaré

12-19-2009, 06:21 PM

Once again, I was horrified by long stretches of offensive ineptitude. R Kelly is earning some real PT with his defense. I am excited about what he did today and what he may do tomorrow.

airowe

12-19-2009, 06:21 PM

Quality defensive showing by our guys. It was great to see us shut down Matt Bouldin and really contain Sacre on the inside.

Loved seeing Ryan getting minutes and playing phenomenal on both ends of the floor.

As GregNewton said, a lot of our guys are playing under their potential and for us to dominate a Top 15 team on a neutral (;)) court while our guys are still not playing their best ball it makes me really happy for the Spring.

Happy Holidays Everyone!

-bdbd

12-19-2009, 06:21 PM

Devils looked great today. Not sure if the Zags aren't as good as previously believed, or that we're really that good... But, damn, anytime you can beat a top-15 team by 30+ people are going to sit up and take notice.

It became a route so early, and Gonzaga's players obviously got discouraged, but it's hard to get a handle on how strong we really are. Certainly our defense was top-notch -- besting Zags' low for the season in first half scoring, blowing away their average number of turnovers, etc. I was most pleased with our interior play, specifically on defense and in rebounding. I'm becoming more and more a fan of Nolan Smith. He is just so critical to making this team go -- we really NEED his speed and athleticism on the perimeter. And Scheyer is, as always, such a smart player - a coach's dream on the floor, doing all of the little things that so many kids today can't be bothered with... Ryan seems to be getting more and more comfortable as the season goes on, which bodes well for ACC play, and both Plumlees are improving as well. (I can see now what Olek must've seen already, that minutes were going to be getting harder and harder to come by. BTW, sorry to see him go, but doesn't that free up another important scholly for all of the HS Juniors and even seniors we're in close with?)

Anyway, Merry Christmas all. Combined with the result in Dallas, I know that I already got MY presents early!!

:D:D:D

jv001

12-19-2009, 06:22 PM

All the guys played well. I liked the two man game Nolan and Jon played in the 2nd half. The Zags could not stop them. Zoubs, Ryan and Mason played very good games as well. Can't fault anyone in this win. Always a great weekend when unc loses and Duke wins. Go Duke!

Saratoga2

12-19-2009, 06:24 PM

After watching the game I see a team developing and one that can be much better. Our team defense was very good and our offense was bothered by the size of Gonzaga and the tight defense they played. On an individual basis I think a lot of items should be mentioned.

Bigs:
Zoubek: started with a couple of unfortunate fouls but then picked his game up and was assertive. He had an excellent overall game.
Miles Plumlee: Played well and showed he is no pushover out there. What a relief to have multiple big men with fouls to give.
Mason Plumlee: He made some freshmen plays resulting in turnovers but shows some real ability. He will come along with more in game experience and may turn into a really good Power Forward
Lance Thomas: He played well, his defense was good and he fought for the ball. His quickness is a big help out there.
Kelly: Wonderful story here. The kid can really play and has a sense of the game like Scheyer although not as highly developed. He has to get more PT.
Singler: Not such a good story here as he seems to be pressing. Maybe he needs to reevaluate his game to get under better control on offense. We need him to return to the excellence we know he has.

Guards:
Scheyer: Another great game although his shooting was a little off, perhaps due to the size and defensive pressure. He may get 2 TO's but one was due to Singler not moving towards a pass.
Smith: Excellent overall game for him on offense and defense.
Dawkins: This kid has more than just a jump shot. He has a solid overall game and will help us win many a game this year.

Overall team defense was very good with a lot of shot blocking and altering and very few easy buckets for Gonzaga. The kids should be proud of their efforts today.

gwwilburn

12-19-2009, 06:31 PM

Some interesting stats:
Gonzaga had 15 FG's and 18 TO's.
Scheyer had five assits and one TO, lowering his assist to turnover ratio. ;)
Duke shot 80% from the line, while Gonzaga was at 47.6%.

proelitedota

12-19-2009, 06:34 PM

Is there a place where I can watch the replay of this game? I only caught the last part of the second half. ESPN360 didn't seem to carry it.

Troublemaker

12-19-2009, 06:34 PM

However, Singler didn't have a good game. Here's what I noticed about Singler - he tries to take over games but can't seem to find "it". When the whole team was struggling, he kept shooting (and missing) and driving (and turning the ball over). Unfortunately, as much as I like him, I don't think he's the star player on this team. It's also debatable if he's the second best player on this team (I feel Nolan is more consistent). He is our most versatile player, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's our best player. He had a fairly poor offensive game, but at least his defense was great.

Kyle should be fine. He has plenty of time this season to develop into a great player. I recall how last season Gerald didn't look so hot until about a third of the way through the season, then he kinda took off and became a very good player who carried the scoring load for us.

The thing about our Big 3 is they're still developing players as well, even though the fans only talk about development in terms of the Plumlees, the bench, the freshmen, etc. Jon is developing into a great player, Nolan took a big step today because he hadn't really played well against good competition yet. Kyle is trying to become consistently great.

MADevil30

12-19-2009, 06:37 PM

Don't have time for a long post at the moment, but man was I impressed with Ryan Kelly. He came out with a ton of confidence and made a big shot right when he first got in, made smart plays, and played well on both ends of the floor.

Other Impressions: Positive game from Zoubs, a bit disappointed by Miles, Jon doing what he always does, great shooting from Nolan (love the mid-range), and finally, praying that Mason did not re-injure his wrist there around the 8 min mark of the second half

airowe

12-19-2009, 06:41 PM

Is there a place where I can watch the replay of this game? I only caught the last part of the second half. ESPN360 didn't seem to carry it.

http://www.justin.tv/accsportszone2

Look in the archives.

kmspeaks

12-19-2009, 06:43 PM

Is there a place where I can watch the replay of this game? I only caught the last part of the second half. ESPN360 didn't seem to carry it.

I think you can find it here. http://www.justin.tv/accsportszone2/archive ESPN360 only carries games which are shown on the ESPN family of networks. Today's game was on CBS so that's why 360 didn't have it.

Edit: airowe beat me too it.

airowe

12-19-2009, 06:44 PM

Kyle should be fine. He has plenty of time this season to develop into a great player. I recall how last season Gerald didn't look so hot until about a third of the way through the season, then he kinda took off and became a very good player who carried the scoring load for us.

The thing about our Big 3 is they're still developing players as well, even though the fans only talk about development in terms of the Plumlees, the bench, the freshmen, etc. Jon is developing into a great player, Nolan took a big step today because he hadn't really played well against good competition yet. Kyle is trying to become consistently great.

I know we were saying the same thing about Gerald last year at this time, but I don't see Kyle getting any looks in the lottery next year. I think it would serve him well to play another year to get him in better draft position in 2011...

I agree with you though, he's had a good year in spots so far and he'll only get better as the year goes on. I think our ceiling is high in the Spring!

flyingdutchdevil

12-19-2009, 06:47 PM

Kyle should be fine. He has plenty of time this season to develop into a great player. I recall how last season Gerald didn't look so hot until about a third of the way through the season, then he kinda took off and became a very good player who carried the scoring load for us.

The thing about our Big 3 is they're still developing players as well, even though the fans only talk about development in terms of the Plumlees, the bench, the freshmen, etc. Jon is developing into a great player, Nolan took a big step today because he hadn't really played well against good competition yet. Kyle is trying to become consistently great.

I agree that Singler should be fine. But G was consistent last year, and I mean that in a good and bad way. For the first third of the season, G was consistently bad. Then he exploded and became consistently good. We knew what we'd get out of him. Singler seems to be all over the place - playing well one game and forcing terrible shots the next. As it stands, I would have to label him inconsistent. As you said, I hope he goes improve, because we will need him to do so down the stretch.

BattierD12

12-19-2009, 06:51 PM

From ESPN's recap:

Jon Scheyer and Nolan Smith combined for 3 more points than Gonzaga scored as a team.

Nuff said.

LetItBD08

12-19-2009, 06:57 PM

I like how in that past month at the Garden, Duke's held two ranked teams to 1-14 from 3...and that 1 was a meaningless last minute shot by Kong.

It's 3-27 if you throw in the Arizona State game.

BlueintheFace

12-19-2009, 07:24 PM

Zoubek continuing his more than solid play. His defense is solid and his rebounding is exceptional. Honestly, I think he is our best post player at this point. Good game AGAIN.

flyingdutchdevil

12-19-2009, 07:36 PM

Zoubek continuing his more than solid play. His defense is solid and his rebounding is exceptional. Honestly, I think he is our best post player at this point. Good game AGAIN.

agreed. he's playing the best duke ball of his life. that said, i would prefer him coming off the bench than starting. seems more suited for that position.

BlueintheFace

12-19-2009, 07:46 PM

No doubt Singler is in a slump.

3-8, 0-5 from three. However, he did pull down 11 rebounds!!!!

Greg_Newton

12-19-2009, 07:57 PM

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAB_20091219_GONZAG@DUKE:

"We got throttled in every aspect of basketball," coach Mark Few said. "Their physical play bothered us as far as finishing shots around the rim. They outrebounded us. We turned the ball over more and they took more free throws. They beat us in every aspect. It was an old-fashioned take you out to the woodshed and beat you down."

I'm not getting ahead of myself this year (see 364 days ago, when we administered a similar beatdown to the #7 team in the country). However, I have a broad smile on my face today!

DUKIE V(A)

12-19-2009, 08:29 PM

jv001

12-19-2009, 08:45 PM

That Coach K said in postgame comments that this team understands Duke defense better than the last 7 or 8 past teams. Not individually but as a team. Guess having that big front line back there helps a lot. Go Duke!

dukestheheat

12-19-2009, 08:48 PM

Nolan looked really good today. He is going to the right spots on the floor to score. Zoubek had another really solid game. Our interior defense was excellent.

....Nolan going to the right spots on the floor to score. I thought his off-ball movement was superb tonight so I agree with you 100%. A large part of basketball has to do with off-the-ball movement and Duke did this well (and, especially Nolan Smith) tonight!

Duke's defense was in force tonight!

dth.

mo.st.dukie

12-19-2009, 09:18 PM

Zoubek continuing his more than solid play. His defense is solid and his rebounding is exceptional. Honestly, I think he is our best post player at this point. Good game AGAIN.

He is playing very well and will continue to be a huge asset coming off the bench. If we could get the Plumlees rolling we'll be in business because LT and Zoubs have shown that they will be valuable back ups.

ncexnyc

12-19-2009, 09:38 PM

After watching the UNC vs Texas game and the way both teams went up and down the floor, this game was like a trip to the dentist. Some very ugly play during the first 10-12 minutes.

As others have said Nolan had a great game and I was glad to see him step-up.

Jon continues to do just about everything a player can possibly do to help his team win.

Brian continues to play in a fashion that makes you wonder what his career might have been had he been completly healthy for 4 years.

Lance was effective, with some nice hustle.

Dawkins shows he is an offensive threat to be reckoned with.

Ryan is turning into a bigger version of Jon. A very heady player who seems to do all the small things correctly. Very sneaky on defense, blocking shots from behind and from the blindside.

Kyle still seems out of sync. I wonder how much of it is that twealed ankle.

Miles had a better game than his brother and it's nice to have some legitimate size on the team.

All in all one of the ugliest 35 point wins you'll ever see, but a win none the less.

gep

12-19-2009, 09:43 PM

Kyle still seems out of sync. I wonder how much of it is that twealed ankle.

I was also wondering how much of this "out of sync" is the fact that Kyle, after 2 years mostly in the inside, is now mostly on the outside. :rolleyes: Maybe he's still trying to settle into a different role?

House G

12-19-2009, 09:52 PM

To paraphrase Wojo in postgame interview: if Jon Scheyer is not an All-American, I have never seen one.

Sixthman

12-19-2009, 09:58 PM

This game is an interesting example of the proposition that a team does not have to be in a heated contest against top tier competition to make great strides in its development. Here, against a team that knows how to win but lacks the talent Gonzaga has had in recent years, Nolan, Zoubek and Ryan all had their best games of the year and each did some things we have not seen before: For Nolan it was great shot selection in the half court offense, Ryan played defense at a much higher level and for Zoubek it was playing mistake free ball -- by my count, he got every rebound he should have, he kept the ball high, he played strong low post defense without fouling, he got his hands on a lot of balls. Time will tell whether this a giant step forward, or instead, the quality of the competition. Still, the team has to believe now that they can win without Singler being the go to guy on offense -- been there and done that, against good competition. How big will that be when Kyle is playing his best ball.

NSDukeFan

12-19-2009, 10:00 PM

I agree that Singler should be fine. But G was consistent last year, and I mean that in a good and bad way. For the first third of the season, G was consistently bad. Then he exploded and became consistently good. We knew what we'd get out of him. Singler seems to be all over the place - playing well one game and forcing terrible shots the next. As it stands, I would have to label him inconsistent. As you said, I hope he goes improve, because we will need him to do so down the stretch.
I agree that Kyle will be fine, and let's keep in mind that his poor game was still almost a double double.

Zoubek continuing his more than solid play. His defense is solid and his rebounding is exceptional. Honestly, I think he is our best post player at this point. Good game AGAIN.
I agree and think this was a good match up for him (though I think he has shown that he can be effective against anyone this year). I felt most comfortable when Z was on Sacre, as he has the strength and size to bother his shots. It reminded me of Z on Pittman last year.

After watching the UNC vs Texas game and the way both teams went up and down the floor, this game was like a trip to the dentist. Some very ugly play during the first 10-12 minutes.

...

All in all one of the ugliest 35 point wins you'll ever see, but a win none the less.
I thought your analysis of each of the players was good, but I just find that no matter what the pace of the game is or how many missed shots there may be, if Duke beats a ranked team by 35, it is better than any trip to the dentist I have ever had, and I don't mind going to the dentist. :)

I still can't believe that we held them to 41 (because of a late 3). What a defensive performance!! I agree that Kelly was impressive and hope and expect to see him in the regular rotation. I think K is going to have a tough challenge in the new year though as I think Mason is going to be demanding more minutes (not verbally, but by his play) and Lance, Z and Miles have not indicated to me in any way that they are deserving of having their time reduced. I also loved the little pull-up by Andre off the glass. It is nice to see our freshmen all increasing their confidence. Very promising.

What a great Christmas present!

Sixthman

12-19-2009, 10:00 PM

To paraphrase Wojo in postgame interview: if Jon Scheyer is not an All-American, I have never seen one.

At one point during the game they showed a graphic of someone's idea of the player of the year candidates, with their statistics. My thought was that John's stats would look fine in that company.

dukelifer

12-19-2009, 11:05 PM

A very interesting game. I have seen Gonzaga play a few games and they looked very good- Duke made them look very bad today. The D was pretty effective and the Zags never figured out what to do. A bit surprising. It was great to see Smith play with such confidence. His midrange game is his strength. His jumpshot looked good tonight. Scheyer continues to amaze with his steady ball handling and leadership on the floor. Kelly showed a little aggressiveness today. That was good to see. He showed an ability to pull down rebounds in traffic and he is very sneaky blocking shots. He uses timing more than jumping ability and often that is more effective.

Singler continues to have his struggles in his new role. He should get better, but it looks like it will take some time. Still, he continues to do a lot of little things that helps Duke win- today he bounded the ball. But the fact he is not scoring as much is affecting him- maybe the ankle is still not 100%. Zoubek is playing well. He is not pretty- but he is effective and is gaining some confidence. That was a big front line and Zoubs held his own. The Plumlee boys have their moments but really need a penetrating point guard to get them some easy buckets. They may need to wait until next year. Still they are skilled and make it tough for teams as they can clog things up. All in all- this Duke team has a lot of interchangeable parts and is doing what it takes to win. I think we will see all 9 guys play a lot this year.

Kim*

12-19-2009, 11:27 PM

Surprised no one has mentioned that Mr. Greg Paulus was at the game tonight. Looking very happy, healthy, very nice to everyone that came up to him. He was sitting like 4 seats away from me in the Duke section (obviously). I was so happy to see him there supporting the guys!

Kedsy

12-20-2009, 12:15 AM

This was as convincing a win to me as the UConn win was, even if the Zags and the Huskies are two different tiered opponents.

Which do you think is a tier ahead of the other, UConn (#14) or Gonzaga (#15)?

Kedsy

12-20-2009, 12:25 AM

At one point during the game they showed a graphic of someone's idea of the player of the year candidates, with their statistics. My thought was that John's stats would look fine in that company.

My thought was his statistics look better than any of them, although NPOY is not solely about statistics.

BD80

12-20-2009, 12:48 AM

It may just be me dropping acid in the afternoon, but did I see Zoubek move LATERALLY for several rebounds?

It was interesting to see the difference in the Zags big men when Z was guarding the paint vs when the MPs were patrolling the paint. Z had the lower body strength to hold his position and to extend an arm into the passing lane, and frustrated the Zags' big men. The MPs couldn't hold the Zags' big men out of the paint.

For the grief Z gets from Duke fans, he is the strongest post defender we have, and matches up better than any other Duke player against big strong post players.

I chuckled when Mason(?) let his man drive right by him for a dunk, and thought "he won't be in there much longer." As the camera followed the ball back up the court, you could see Thomas leaving the bench headed to the scorer's table.

It was VERY encouraging to see Ryan's performance. Looks like Coach K will use his bench this year. It will depend on match-ups who will play and how much (except the 3 Ss).

duke09hms

12-20-2009, 12:49 AM

Great win for us tonight! I was there in person, and man I was so proud to start the "Scheyer's Winning" chant with all my fellow dukies when he was up 13-12 sometime in the 1st half. It was my first game away from Cameron, and the difference between the two places was shocking - I couldnt believe I was actually hearing the ball bounce on the floor. Man, I love Duke.

I honestly don't know how good our defense actually is, but something has to be said for making 2 top teams look so bad - UConn and Gonzaga. The only thing is, they were missing so many layups, bunnies, and free throws just like UConn did that I don't know how much of that was due to us or them lacking focus.

Great to see Nolan Smith really come into his own tonight. It's one thing to go to town on Gardner-Webb, it's another thing to drop 24 on the #15 team. He had some truly sick moves out there tonight - dang I have not seen that in a while from a duke team. Like DeMarc and G could explode past people, but neither faked/crossed people up.

I'm so happy to see we're not overly reliant on the three-ball this year, we got multiple ways to score. I get so amped up everytime either Mason or Miles makes a REAL POST MOVE to score. If they keep that up and get more comfortable, the ceiling for this team is real high folks, really high.

Ryan Kelly is a true playa, so good to see him draining shots and packing fools left and right. The light definitely seems to have come on for him as he's playing with control and calm now. If that moment ever comes for Miles and Mason . . . wow. But that could be sooner, later, or never, so we'll see.

Like others have said, it's a great sign that our devils can beat gonzaga so convincingly while still having so many obvious shortcomings to work on (kyle's inconsistency, development of a post game, overall offensive flow). There's a lot of room for improvement that if we do make it, we could be scary good in March - another thing different from years past. Hopefully we peak at the right time this year.

JaMarcus Russell

12-20-2009, 02:51 AM

Awesome game! Great team win!

Kelly is not only talented (the kid can stroke it) and gaining more confidence, but he is about as smart a player as you will find in college hoops today. He is a great feeder of the post/interior passer and great team first type player. My only complaint is that he is unselfish to a fault at times. I'd like to see him shoot more. I am sure that will come with experience and confidence.

I agree with everything you said. He's obviously a great shooter, but he hasn't been great so far this season. I think part of the reason is because he often hesitates before shooting to see if he has an open teammate. Timing is a very important part of shooting, and I think this is throwing off his rhythm.

If Kelly shoots more, while Singler and Smith pass more, this team will be so much better.

DukeBlood

12-20-2009, 03:30 AM

Individuals

Scheyer- As usual, Very smart plays. Found ways to score when his shot just wasn't falling. Did a good job on D and outside of one travel, was great with the ball. I know he was credited with another turnover, but that wasn't Jon's fault.

Smith- Looked like the best player on the court, both sides of the ball. Can't think of any one play where he was lost defensively. Only small complaint is sometimes he drives with his head down, missing a player on the wing. Happened a couple times within the first five minutes. After that he picked his head up.

Singler- While everyone mentions his offensive is in a slump, give the guy some love on D! Now that Jon is getting more and more attention on both sides of the ball, Singler might be Dukes most underrated defender. Played really impressive D both on the ball and help D.

Thomas- What hasn't been said? Another good-great performance. My only gripe is he might be the last player I would want forcing a shot(only happened once, so a slight remark). Gotta love his D though.

Miles- Had foul troubles, but did some nice things while in there. His baby hook was a thing of beauty, something we haven't seen in a couple years. He could potentially be a very special player, but still is a good player now. Probably the least effective player of the starters but still played OK-Good

Bench:

Mason- After this game I can see why the coaches and players were raving about him(his drive and finish was nice). Its sometimes hard not to wonder where he would be if not for the injury. Had some good moves, and some freshman mistakes tonight.

Andre- Not many times in his career will be miss all his 3-attempts. Still gotta love what he brings offensively. Didn't look as lost on D as previous games. Not a great game by any means, but not horrible either. Gotta love this kid though.

Ryan- You guys said all of it. Best game of his young career. Just a really heads up player. He might contribute alot more then we think sooner rather than later.

Zoubek- Looked good tonight. I never would of thought he was capable of stepping infront of the person he is guarding and make a clean steal. He's really starting to understand his role/limitations.

lpd1982

12-20-2009, 05:02 AM

Great basketball watching day yesterday! If you happened to watch the Texas -UNC game and then ours,there was a managment point of interest. Texas' Barnes was liked a traffic cop moving his guys in and out. He is so careful with Pittman that he doesnt get too worn down and keeps productivity high. I thought, well, our game sure will be different. (not criticizing, just surmising) But it wasn't. And it was great. God I hope this is a glimpse of things to come. We felt so deep! Carolina loss-Duke win. Thanks Santa.

MChambers

12-20-2009, 08:32 AM

It may just be me dropping acid in the afternoon, but did I see Zoubek move LATERALLY for several rebounds?

I chuckled when Mason(?) let his man drive right by him for a dunk, and thought "he won't be in there much longer." As the camera followed the ball back up the court, you could see Thomas leaving the bench headed to the scorer's table.

Zoubs did move laterally, quite well. On a missed free throw, he ran across the lane and got the rebound.

Yes, I wish I could have seen how Mason got beaten on that play. The camera angle wasn't good, but his man beat him cutting to the lane, got the pass, and drove all the way in. I have no idea how Mason let that happen. Did he get screened?

Saratoga2

12-20-2009, 08:35 AM

While Singler had an excellent defensive game, his offensive efficiency was not there again last night.

One thing I think a jump shooter should do is to go up straight and to release the ball at the top of the jump when the eyes are momentarily not in motion relative to the rim. I watched Kyle, and he seemed to be jumping toward the basket on one attempt and moving slightly to the side on another. Even shooters with excellent form, like Dawkins, miss some shots at times, but when the form is off, the shooter will become streaky.

The other major part of Singler's offense seemed to stem from him driving to the basket and putting up a shot from as deep in as he could get. It is kind of like Demarcus Nelson's approach to scoring. What can happen in that case is you can be fouled, you can charge, you can be stripped in traffic, you can be blocked, you can try to pass it to an inside player in a very cramped space, you can dish it out, you can stop and take a fade away jump shot, or you can put up a low % shot among the tall trees. The shots Kyle did get in were low % for most people and he didn't seem to pass the ball back out.

In my opinion, the team needs to set up some screens for Kyle to get him 15 footers and he needs to move away from the drive into traffic. His jump shot mechanics are something only he can deal with and perhaps he can get back into more of a zone. We know he is capable and that he will draw the teams best tall long defender, so he will need to adjust his game slightly to return to his offensive effectiveness.

Welcome2DaSlopes

12-20-2009, 09:57 AM

I think Kyle feels more comfortable at the 4. He loves to post up and do his thing. The 3 adjustment is affecting his offense.

BD80

12-20-2009, 10:19 AM

Zoubs did move laterally, quite well. On a missed free throw, he ran across the lane and got the rebound.

Yes, I wish I could have seen how Mason got beaten on that play. The camera angle wasn't good, but his man beat him cutting to the lane, got the pass, and drove all the way in. I have no idea how Mason let that happen. Did he get screened?

Looked like Mason got caught guarding the wrong shoulder, worrying about the baseline. Problem was, his help was at the baseline and nobody was in the lane to help.

This raises the Paulus Conundrum, even though he would often get beat off the dribble, at least he would usually get beat in the direction where he had help. Problem is, once the defense starts helping, it starts breaking down, as defenders have to rotate to cover the help defender. Paulus was physically a subpar defender, but mentally was quite good.

Mason is quick enough to stay in front of his man - so he made a physical mistake. Not being aware of where he was with respect to the rest of the defense was mental mistake. A good learning moment, the conclusion of which was replayed about a half dozen times.

Lord Ash

12-20-2009, 10:39 AM

Anyone else notice that one play where a Duke player (maybe Jon?) threw a pass to Nolan Smith near the corner. A Zag touched it, and then it LOOKED like it touched Nolan's hand and then went out of bounds? The Zags were all shouting "He touched it!" but Nolan started making motions like 'No no!' The ref pointed DUKE BALL, and Nolan walked past and patted him on the butt...

... and once he was past the ref he looked down at some fans in front row and make the "I just got away with that!" wide eyed shrug!

Did anyone else see that moment? Made me laugh almost as much as when Nolan hit that one shot and ran back up court, high fiving a Duke fan on the sideline as he went.

MChambers

12-20-2009, 10:45 AM

I think Kyle feels more comfortable at the 4. He loves to post up and do his thing. The 3 adjustment is affecting his offense.

I don't think Kyle is that comfortable posting up. He had Boldin on him yesterday, but never posted him.

Welcome2DaSlopes

12-20-2009, 10:46 AM

SupaDave

12-20-2009, 11:28 AM

SMO

12-20-2009, 11:52 AM

I don't think Kyle is that comfortable posting up. He had Boldin on him yesterday, but never posted him.

It almost seems like certain games he does it several times and during others not at all. Perhaps the flow of the game and his teammates' performance dictates when he does and does not post up, but I would think Kyle playing the 3 would produce more chances to do it. Should be interesting to see if posting Kyle on a smaller 3 is a "go to" play when Duke really needs a bucket. He's good at posting and if a 4 or 5 comes to guard him it should open up a mis-match for a Duke big.

ChicagoCrazy84

12-20-2009, 11:53 AM

I understand that Kyle had an off day but he was great at a number of things. He's obviously working on his ball handling skills and his coast to coast drive with the assist to Smith are the kind of things we will be seeing more of from Kyle as he continues to play at a higher level.

With that said about his ball handling skills, does anyone else think that Singler should be taking his game from more of an outisde to in mentality to an inside to out? From the times I have seen Kyle play consistently effective (besides the Wisconsin game) he is doing it in the post. He has the length and strength to get his game going on the inside. I really think he would benefit more from backing his guy down from the high post. I just saw too many jump shots from him today.

Besides Kyle's offense, great stuff from our Dukies yesterday! Ryan Kelly will be my favorite player in no time. The guy is just a breath of fresh air. He is a baller, flat out. Once he adds some much needed muscle to his frame, the guy will be a stud. I am starting to love Brian Zoubek. The last two years, I have been his biggest critic, but he has really stepped it up and if I had the chance, I would give him a big hug for the way he has been playing this year. He doesn't necessarily have the best post moves, quickness, or leaping ability, but he understands his role and does it at 110% 100% of the time. Robert Sacre is a beast and will be playing in the NBA in no time and Zoubek played with a lot of confidence against him. Really good D.

Next up Long Beach St! Keep it up men and Merry Christmas to everyone!

ChicagoCrazy84

12-20-2009, 11:58 AM

Forgot to mention that I find it hilarious that Scheyer's 8 assist and 2 turnover game will actually HURT his assist to turnover ratio.

Richard Berg

12-20-2009, 12:27 PM

Surprised no one has mentioned that Mr. Greg Paulus was at the game tonight.
So were JWill, Duhon, and Alaa (and probably others I didn't spot).

Robert Sacre is a beast and will be playing in the NBA in no time and Zoubek played with a lot of confidence against him.
Definitely. Coach K made some great defensive adjustments against Sacre yesterday (usually right a few of us in the stands had suggested them to each other :)). He was able to push around thinner guys like the MPs and Lance, so looked like Plan A was to body him up with Zoubek. Unfortunately, every time he brought in big Z in the first half, Few would send in Foster, who frustrated Z with quickness and height (probably 8 feet if you count the haircut!), leading to foul trouble. Plan B was to double team with one big guy and one quick player. Occasionally that meant 2 Plumlees at once, to great effect. Single coverage with Zoubek also returned in the 2nd half once Miles turned out to be even more foul prone and the Zags couldn't afford the scoring dropoff #45 brought; Brian really stepped up to the challenge. Props.

Anyone else notice that one play where a Duke player (maybe Jon?) threw a pass to Nolan Smith near the corner. A Zag touched it, and then it LOOKED like it touched Nolan's hand and then went out of bounds? The Zags were all shouting "He touched it!" but Nolan started making motions like 'No no!' The ref pointed DUKE BALL, and Nolan walked past and patted him on the butt...

... and once he was past the ref he looked down at some fans in front row and make the "I just got away with that!" wide eyed shrug!

Did anyone else see that moment? Made me laugh almost as much as when Nolan hit that one shot and ran back up court, high fiving a Duke fan on the sideline as he went.
Yeah Nolan rules when he's having fun.

Just as funny was when the ball went flying out of bounds, like 15' over Scheyer's head (who was spotting up on the sideline), and he "pretended" to reach for it. I might post a clip of it for fellow DUMBers, we all found it hilarious.

Forgot to mention that I find it hilarious that Scheyer's 8 assist and 2 turnover game will actually HURT his assist to turnover ratio.
Bet he's kicking himself over the traveling call -- possibly the first season TO you could call a truly unforced error.

NovaScotian

12-20-2009, 12:52 PM

who was the crazy bearded guy who nolan high fived courtside?

sandinmyshoes

12-20-2009, 02:25 PM

I figured us a 14-16 point winner for this game, based on what Wake did to the Gonzaga. I would not have been surprised with a twenty point win. But I was surprised at just turning them inside out like we did. Especially considering out ugly both teams were at the beginning of the game. But, one team got pretty, real pretty. :D

Oriole Way

12-20-2009, 02:28 PM

who was the crazy bearded guy who nolan high fived courtside?

I was wondering the same thing... that was a pretty humorous sequence.

airowe

12-20-2009, 03:07 PM

who was the crazy bearded guy who nolan high fived courtside?

I was wondering the same thing... that was a pretty humorous sequence.

http://www.blueplanetshots.com/2009-10/Games/Gonzaga/DSC2224/745169524_9kZ2k-L.jpg

Acymetric

12-20-2009, 03:35 PM

Just as funny was when the ball went flying out of bounds, like 15' over Scheyer's head (who was spotting up on the sideline), and he "pretended" to reach for it. I might post a clip of it for fellow DUMBers, we all found it hilarious.

I would love to see a screenshot or clip of this, if you or anyone else has it...didn't get to watch the game unfortunately.

gep

12-20-2009, 03:40 PM

http://www.blueplanetshots.com/2009-10/Games/Gonzaga/DSC2224/745169524_9kZ2k-L.jpg

just wondering... Isn't it a penalty in college football for a player to "touch" a fan (high-5 or whatever)? I guess it's OK in college basketball?

Greg_Newton

12-20-2009, 04:28 PM

Just as funny was when the ball went flying out of bounds, like 15' over Scheyer's head (who was spotting up on the sideline), and he "pretended" to reach for it. I might post a clip of it for fellow DUMBers, we all found it hilarious.

LOL I noticed that too... I was watching on TV, and he actually faked me out because of the camera angle. I was quite confused for a millisecond or two. Would love to see a clip of it.

I think Singler just needs to relax a little. Whenever he drives, he's leaning forward with his head down and totally committing to going full speed ahead, which leaves him very little leeway to quickly pull up for an on-balance jumper or react to what the defender's doing. It's kind of the opposite of how Scheyer moves with the ball. However, G was doing the exact same thing early last year, so there's no reason to think he won't figure it out and get into the flow as the season progresses.

SMO

12-20-2009, 04:46 PM

I think Singler just needs to relax a little. Whenever he drives, he's leaning forward with his head down and totally committing to going full speed ahead, which leaves him very little leeway to quickly pull up for an on-balance jumper or react to what the defender's doing. It's kind of the opposite of how Scheyer moves with the ball. However, G was doing the exact same thing early last year, so there's no reason to think he won't figure it out and get into the flow as the season progresses.

I noticed the same thing. When his outside shot isn't falling he goes all DeMarcus Nelson. I wonder if he drove then pulled up for a mid-range J if he wouldn't have more success.

Jumbo

12-20-2009, 06:03 PM

After reading through most of the thread, I'm going to try to stay away from the big-picture take (and save that for the next "Phase" wrap-up) and focus solely on the game. There will be plenty of time to discuss the similarities between where we stand at this point in the season (big pre-Christmas win over a ranked team in the NYC area during a huge snowstorm) and where we stood last year (exact same scenario) and the differences (of which there are also many). I'd rather talk about, and appreciate, a 35-point win against a darn good team.

While much of this thread has been focused on various individuals, what stood out to me most in this game was a "team" thing. And, shockingly, it wasn't the defense. It was the offense. The movement, with and without the ball, was fantastic and demonstrably better than early in the season, including the two previous wins at MSG and obviously at Wisconsin. Guys were screening, cutting, passing quickly. Even during the first 10 minutes, when no one could score, there was a difference -- Duke was getting good shots within the flow of its offensive scheme. Gonzaga was not. It was only a matter of time before Duke broke out.

In particular, I want to single out Nolan Smith in that area. I thought Jon Scheyer was the best player on the court, but this was the best job Smith has done this season of driving and kicking. Too often this year, he has played with his head down. But yesterday, he played within the offense, realized that when he gave the ball up, he'd get it back, realized that kicking for an easy 3 was better than forcing up a runner, and seemed particularly in sync with Scheyer. I thought this quote (http://www.heraldsun.com/pages/full_story/push?article-DOMINANT+%E2%80%98D%E2%80%99%20&id=5233120-DOMINANT+%E2%80%98D%E2%80%99&instance=homefourthleft) was telling:

“Jon and I have a great chemistry, on the court and off the court,” Smith said. “The whole week in practice we’ve been working on playing together even better. The first couple of weeks of the season, there were times when we could have made the extra pass to get somebody a better shot. Today we did that.”

He still has room for improvement -- he enjoys going one-on-one when he can and doesn't do a good enough job of recognizing mismatches, like when one of Gonzaga's smaller guards (might've been Goodson) switched onto Mason on a screen. Mason tried to post him up, but Smith didn't recognize the situation, didn't clear out a side for him, and instead just pounded the ball into the deck. But if he can continue to make strides in his drive-and-kick game, Duke will continue to improve offensively, and Scheyer and Singler will be more effective scorers.

Other thoughts on some common themes:

Singler -- I agree that his play is somewhat concerning, and also agree that G's slow start last season is a reminder that while college basketball season doesn't feel particularly long, a lot can change quickly. I also have to wonder how much his ankle is bothering him; considering the announcers mentioned there was a chance he might've sat out the Gardner-Webb game, it has to be a problem.
Also, it was nice to see a couple of other posters mention what I was going to suggest -- Duke needs to run more sets to isolate him on the block against smaller defenders. Heck, we did that with G last year, and Kyle is bigger and has more advanced post skills. This will be particularly important against teams where Duke is struggling to score within its normal offense.

Kelly -- Agree that it was fun to watch him really start to grasp things against a good opponent. I think some of the praise is a bit hyperbolic (i.e. comparing his court sense to Scheyer's, hyping his shot-blocking on a Shelden Williams level when a couple came late against Gonzaga's scrubs, etc). But he looks much more comfortable out there than even a couple of weeks ago (he looked confused against UConn, for instance). I don't think he has to get more playing time -- balancing minutes for 5 bigs is incredibly tough, and I think the other guys are still ahead of him. But it's nice to know that Coach K can use him, either when the other guys are struggling or foul trouble dictates more minutes. It will also be interesting to see, on days where Dawkins' D is problematic, if K is willing to do a bit of what he did the last two games -- give Singler a break with Thomas and either Mason or Kelly at the other forward spot, with Thomas guarding the other team's 3. That also lets Kelly play on the perimeter offensively.

Mason Plumlee
I, too, was scared when he landed on his wrist. He was in noticeable pain on the bench, so it was great to see him get back in there, albeit with that pad/guard/brace back on. That said, he's clearly not right yet. I still believe that the ability of this team to reach its full potential hinges largely on Mason's ability to make up for lost time and reach the level expected of him before the season. We're seeing flashes -- a put-back here, a block there, that face-up drive where he banked in a leaner. But he's also making plenty of freshman/rusty mistakes. His passes weren't sharp against Gonzaga and his defensive positioning wasn't up to the quality of the other guys in the frontcourt. I have confidence that if he can stay healthy, these issues will be solved in time. I'm just excited to start seeing those special things I know he can bring to the team! ;)

Anyway, great game, great D, great leadership and play by our seniors, great improvement. Here's hoping the guys enjoy their time off, rest up a bit, and then come back ready to take the next step.

DukieInBrasil

12-21-2009, 11:24 AM

ESPN's scoreboard has Duke listed as 7-0 at home after the win at MSG. Supposedly this also includes the other 2 wins at MSG. Is this just ESPN lumping all neutral court appearances where we are slated as the "home" team as actual home wins or is this the perception that MSG is in fact a home court for Duke?

moonpie23

12-21-2009, 12:37 PM

after reading so many excellent contributions to this thread, i'd like to add mine.

It's coming along fine... a few little things to worry about, a whole bunch of things to be happy about...

to me, everyone seems to be getting better (save for kyle's little funk which i predict will pass) and they are learning to play as a team..

Billy Dat

12-21-2009, 01:09 PM

roywhite

12-21-2009, 01:13 PM

I was really interested to read the national "Weekend Reviews" to see where, in the scheme of a busy weekend of college hoops, Duke's beat down of Gonzaga "ranked".

The consensus, so far, seems to be that they REALLY sucked, rather than Duke played really well.

Both Andy Katz's Weekly Watch and Jay Bilas' best of the weekend follow that story.

Not surprising, just a little dissapointing.

Seems to me that both UConn and Gonzaga just "happened" to have really poor offensive games against Duke. Is there some perception that such an "unathletic" team cannot be a terrific defensive team?

Really, though, it's fine if we fly slightly under the radar on the national scene. There's still plenty of room for improvement.

BlueintheFace

12-21-2009, 01:18 PM

Hey now, I said he blocks like the landlord in form not quantity. He doesn't wait for the ball to leave the player's hand and swat at it. He tries to stuff the shot in the most efficient way, by blocking it at the point of release and giving teammates a chance to grab the blocked shot instead of retrieving it out of the third row.

mo.st.dukie

12-21-2009, 01:31 PM

Really, though, it's fine if we fly slightly under the radar on the national scene.

Yeah, I prefer that the country continues on the KU/UK/Texas/Cuse bandwagon while Duke remains a top 10 team but still considered in that second tier behind WVU and Purdue. Those top 4 are the ones that eveyone expects to be in the Final Four. That may happen every now and then but most years there will be a Final Four team that not many people believed they would be that caliber during the year (see Villanova last year who didn't really get national hype until late in the regular season).

ncexnyc

12-21-2009, 01:32 PM

Seems to me that both UConn and Gonzaga just "happened" to have really poor offensive games against Duke. Is there some perception that such an "unathletic" team cannot be a terrific defensive team?

Really, though, it's fine if we fly slightly under the radar on the national scene. There's still plenty of room for improvement.

Could it be that the talking heads are waiting for us to beat a well rounded team? One that has both inside as well as outside talent.

I realize this isn't a typical Duke team defensively. In the past we denied the passing lanes and our steals came from shooting the gap. That was what was viewed as a tough Duke D.

Now, this team has a backline that challenges shots. In the past those close in shots fell, but now they aren't due to the defensive pressence of our bigs.
I know I'm having to adjust to this preception and I'm sure the analysts are as well.

Kedsy

12-21-2009, 02:12 PM

Now, this team has a backline that challenges shots. In the past those close in shots fell, but now they aren't due to the defensive pressence of our bigs.

This is an interesting point. When someone misses a little, chippie layup the tendency of the observer is to say the shooter blew it, not that the defense caused him to rush and miss his shot, because everyone assumes that when a Division I player misses a layup it's just because he screwed up. It will be interesting to see if the trend continues.

Now if we could only find a good reason for our opponents shooting poorly from the free throw line, we'd be in business. Tired legs, from having to bang down low with our big guys?

airowe

12-21-2009, 02:14 PM

Could it be that the talking heads are waiting for us to beat a well rounded team? One that has both inside as well as outside talent.

I realize this isn't a typical Duke team defensively. In the past we denied the passing lanes and our steals came from shooting the gap. That was what was viewed as a tough Duke D.

Now, this team has a backline that challenges shots. In the past those close in shots fell, but now they aren't due to the defensive pressence of our bigs.
I know I'm having to adjust to this preception and I'm sure the analysts are as well.

Gonzaga and UCONn are both pretty well-rounded, Gonzaga especially. It's no fluke that we completely shut them both down.

I'm fine with flying slightly under the radar too. It's not like were getting no love though, we're ranked 7th in the Coaches' Poll. Although we didn't move up at all after throttling a solid Top 15 team on a neutral court.

MChambers

12-21-2009, 03:09 PM

This is an interesting point. When someone misses a little, chippie layup the tendency of the observer is to say the shooter blew it, not that the defense caused him to rush and miss his shot, because everyone assumes that when a Division I player misses a layup it's just because he screwed up. It will be interesting to see if the trend continues.

Now if we could only find a good reason for our opponents shooting poorly from the free throw line, we'd be in business. Tired legs, from having to bang down low with our big guys?

I've been pondering Duke's excellent free throw shooting defense, and from watching the games it doesn't look like the players are cracking their knuckles more this year than in the past. Accordingly, I think it is due to two factors: (1) luck, and (2) fouling post players who don't do well at the line. Just guesses, however.

Wander

12-21-2009, 03:46 PM

Accordingly, I think it is due to two factors: (1) luck, and (2) fouling post players who don't do well at the line. Just guesses, however.

Good call - Scheyer and Smith are fouling less than they did last year, while Lance, Z, and Plumlee #1 haven't really improved at all in this area.

Kedsy

12-21-2009, 04:02 PM

I've been pondering Duke's excellent free throw shooting defense, and from watching the games it doesn't look like the players are cracking their knuckles more this year than in the past. Accordingly, I think it is due to two factors: (1) luck, and (2) fouling post players who don't do well at the line. Just guesses, however.

Well, in the UConn game my eight-year-old son and nine-year-old nephew shouted during pretty much every missed UConn free throw, and the two of them took full credit. We got snowed in and couldn't get to the Gonzaga game, and my son was very disappointed because he couldn't play free throw defense against the Zags.

RainingThrees

12-21-2009, 04:04 PM

Well, in the UConn game my eight-year-old son and nine-year-old nephew shouted during pretty much every missed UConn free throw, and the two of them took full credit. We got snowed in and couldn't get to the Gonzaga game, and my son was very disappointed because he couldn't play free throw defense against the Zags.

Don't take them to a UNC game. They'll get kicked out for being too negative.

MChambers

12-21-2009, 04:08 PM

MB in MD

12-21-2009, 05:37 PM

This is an interesting point. When someone misses a little, chippie layup the tendency of the observer is to say the shooter blew it, not that the defense caused him to rush and miss his shot, because everyone assumes that when a Division I player misses a layup it's just because he screwed up. It will be interesting to see if the trend continues.

Don't these excuses about mistakes on offense sound just a little bit like all the stars who play Houston and claim they just had an off night after being guarded by Battier? Most of the time really good defense isn't noticed, especially on TV, but when the same thing keeps showing up in the box score, it's hard to argue with.

ncexnyc

12-21-2009, 06:18 PM

Gonzaga and UCONn are both pretty well-rounded, Gonzaga especially. It's no fluke that we completely shut them both down.

I'm fine with flying slightly under the radar too. It's not like were getting no love though, we're ranked 7th in the Coaches' Poll. Although we didn't move up at all after throttling a solid Top 15 team on a neutral court.

True love is having 3 losses and still being ranked at the 10 spot.;)

Now if you're looking for love then try Pomeroy, as he has us at number 2, behind only Texas. He's got Gonzaga at 79 and the Cons at 42. The team that beat us, Wisconsin is in at 14.

amyindurham

12-21-2009, 06:49 PM

roywhite

12-21-2009, 07:38 PM

I know this has been mentioned quite a bit already, but I was really impressed with how Ryan Kelly played in this game. He's become a bit of a favorite of mine for some reason, and I've been excited about him since the McDonald's All-American game (and 3-point contest!). I know he wasn't a super-star or anything, but it was great to see him get out there with some confidence, drain a few great shots, and play some strong defense. Prior to this game, he had been missing so many shots that we all *knew* he could make, and it seemed like he just couldn't find his stride. Hopefully this was a "break-out game" of sorts for him!

I like Ryan a lot myself, amyindurham. While you mention he's not a super-star at this point, we sometimes take for granted the level of player that Duke recruits. Ryan's partial resume coming into Duke:

Parade All-America 1st team (10 make 1st team)
McDonald's All-America
Played extensively on USA Under-18 team internationally
5-star rating, #20 overall player in class of 2009 by rivals.com
5-star rating, #12 overall player in class of 2009 by scout.com

Safe to say Coach Cut would do handsprings if he landed a 5-star recruit for his football team, and Coach K routinely gets prospects at this level.

I see a lot of potential for Ryan at Duke. Very glad to have him.