Coaching Staff?

[J.Blink]

Besides Coach K, we have Collins, Wojo, Nate James, and Spatola. 3 former players and a family member. (I believe Carrawell is associated with the program too?)

I'm just wondering what the general thoughts about the makeup (ie, entirely former players or family) of the coaching staff are--positive? negative? irrelevant? Time for a shakeup? How can you argue with success? etc.

I know this is a touchy subject, and I'm not wanting to start a flame war or anything of the like, but it seems somewhat germane after the questions that some people raised in the Olek transfer thread. Lastly, I'm genuinely ignorant of this--is it typical for other comparable programs to have staffs made up entirely of alums?

[airowe]

This is not going to end well.

In regards to the makeup of the staff, it's kind of hard to argue with the most winningest program in the decade, numerous Top 10 recruiting classes, numerous coaches attending the Duke Coaches Clinic and reporting benefits from learning from the best, putting the most players in the NBA with the highest salaries, etc.

Although, things can always be better, and there are always areas to improve on. I'm one to not just cast someone aside in order to get something (hopefully) better, but rather improve the people that you do have and make them better. Change by omission is not necessarily a good thing, but making things better is always good change.

[J.Blink]

This is not going to end well.

I should add to mods to not hesitate to close / delete this thread if it is inappropriate. Not my intent.

[NYDukie]

My only thoughts concerning the makeup of the staff is not so much who is on it, as each brings certain qualities to the team, though I do not know the background of Spattola enough to make a proper opinion, but whether we should have a big man's coach who has had the related playing experience ti translate that to practice on the court. Some may know better than I about which positional coaches experience they have but that would be my only concern. I don't question the abilities of the coaches (I don't want to start a firestorm here either) individually but rather whether we have all the bases properly covered? How many coaches are we allowed by NCAA rules and could we add such a coach? This may have been covered to some extent in many of the "big men" and "Wojo" posts and I plead "guilty" to missing some comments of those in the know but I would like to be refreshed on this subject a bit more.

[SMO]

Besides Coach K, we have Collins, Wojo, Nate James, and Spatola. 3 former players and a family member. (I believe Carrawell is associated with the program too?)

I'm just wondering what the general thoughts about the makeup (ie, entirely former players or family) of the coaching staff are--positive? negative? irrelevant? Time for a shakeup? How can you argue with success? etc.

I know this is a touchy subject, and I'm not wanting to start a flame war or anything of the like, but it seems somewhat germane after the questions that some people raised in the Olek transfer thread. Lastly, I'm genuinely ignorant of this--is it typical for other comparable programs to have staffs made up entirely of alums?

A touchy subject but a fair question. I would look at it from the perspective of not who these guys are, where they went to school, etc., but can they get the job done? Most evidence suggests they can. The only real risk in my opinion is that a group-think atmosphere could sink in if everyone has similar backgrounds and coaching approaches. My guess is there are enough opinions and strong willed people on the staff that group-think is not a major issue.

[Jarhead]

Besides Coach K, we have Collins, Wojo, Nate James, and Spatola. 3 former players and a family member. (I believe Carrawell is associated with the program too?)

I'm just wondering what the general thoughts about the makeup (ie, entirely former players or family) of the coaching staff are--positive? negative? irrelevant? Time for a shakeup? How can you argue with success? etc.

I know this is a touchy subject, and I'm not wanting to start a flame war or anything of the like, but it seems somewhat germane after the questions that some people raised in the Olek transfer thread. Lastly, I'm genuinely ignorant of this--is it typical for other comparable programs to have staffs made up entirely of alums?

Talk about tripping over the curtain when first entering the stage. I don't see Duke's staff makeup as any kind encumbrance on its performance. I think back to John Kennedy's retort when questioned about his brother's appointment Attorney General. He answered by simply stating that Bobbie was thoroughly screened, and was the best qualified for the position. He added, "Besides, he's my brother"

[NYDukie]

I should add to mods to not hesitate to close / delete this thread if it is inappropriate. Not my intent.

If fellow posters are careful of not fanning the flames I think we can have a very insightful converstaion about this as some are more informed than others and can shed some insightful light of the makings of the staff outside some of the obvious.

[J.Blink]

I think I should also have stated my opinion, which would roughly follow the "it's hard to argue with success" line, but with a caveat: in sports (and business, personal life, everything else) it's always important to reevaluate situations. Sometimes things stay the same from inertia rather than for any good reason. Sometimes they are the way they are for the best of reasons!

I do naturally find myself feeling just a hint of distaste at a "all former players/family staff." As SMO stated there's always the risk of group-think, and while I too would tend to agree that there are so many strong personalities involved, thus diminishing the risk of group-think, I believe it's still a risk. There are reasons why companies frequently go outside the company family to find leadership rather than always promoting from within.

Now, I'm not calling for Kevin White to form an oversight committee of day-to-day basketball operations (or anything remotely close to that) or any assistant coaches to be let go, (and I think the Wojo/Big Man topic has been talked to death 100 times here!) but I do think it's a fair topic for discussion.

[DevilHorse]

Duke sports assistant coaches that have:

- been part of a national champion in the past decade.
- spent several summers working in close contact with Pro Coaches Nate
McMillan and Mike D'antoni to help mine their heads on Pro style offenses
and defenses (well, maybe not D'antoni defenses).
- spent several summers working with Jim Boeheim and Mike Krzyzewski to
mine their heads about Zone and Man to Man defenses (acknowledged
leaders of both)
- spent several summers scouting International Teams and players, being
exposed to aspects of basketball well beyond what college basketballers
are exposed to.
- spent several summers working with the top Professional players (Kobe,
Dwayne, LeBron) to mine their heads about habits and motivation

surely have been growing beyond the cocoon that is the Duke Basketball campus enough to make anyone feel comfortable that they are not just coaching inbreds.

Who in the assistant coaching ranks of the USA, pro and amateur, had a more robust preparation? Also noting that other than Nate's attributes as a result of working out, neither of these coaches made their mark in basketball as a result of athleticism. They worked hard and had high basketball IQs, which translates well to coaching.

Larry
DevilHorse

[obsesseddukefan]

and it might have been from posters that arent up to speed with the subject, but I remember some threads on Wojo being the "big man" coach? Now I for one LOVE the fact that past players are part of the coaching staff. I think it works well for us in general. But if it is true why not move Wojo (who is one of my favs from the past teams) to a point guard coach, and bring in Laettner for or "big man coach" It is Christmas and all and that would be my Christmas wish. :D Hope eveyone has a wonderful and safe holiday.

[jesus_hurley]

and it might have been from posters that arent up to speed with the subject, but I remember some threads on Wojo being the "big man" coach? Now I for one LOVE the fact that past players are part of the coaching staff. I think it works well for us in general. But if it is true why not move Wojo (who is one of my favs from the past teams) to a point guard coach, and bring in Laettner for or "big man coach" It is Christmas and all and that would be my Christmas wish. :D Hope eveyone has a wonderful and safe holiday.

That was discussed a while back:
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16459&highlight=laettner

[allenmurray]

and it might have been from posters that arent up to speed with the subject, but I remember some threads on Wojo being the "big man" coach? Now I for one LOVE the fact that past players are part of the coaching staff. I think it works well for us in general. But if it is true why not move Wojo (who is one of my favs from the past teams) to a point guard coach, and bring in Laettner for or "big man coach" It is Christmas and all and that would be my Christmas wish. :D Hope eveyone has a wonderful and safe holiday.

Scoring opportunities for big men are created for them by point guards and wing players. They don't create their own opportunities. Thus, who better to coach big men about offensive positioning than a former point guard?

[obsesseddukefan]

Scoring opportunities for big men are created for them by point guards and wing players. They don't create their own opportunities. Thus, who better to coach big men about offensive positioning than a former point guard?

Couldnt agree with you more. I guess what I was trying to say was movement of the big men down in the post. I am not sure if that would just be on the individual learning on thier own or if a point guard could teach that. I think a big man coach could really teach the big men a thing or too about movement with the ball and or positioning. Thoughts?

[hughgs]

Couldnt agree with you more. I guess what I was trying to say was movement of the big men down in the post. I am not sure if that would just be on the individual learning on thier own or if a point guard could teach that. I think a big man coach could really teach the big men a thing or too about movement with the ball and or positioning. Thoughts?

What we need is a big-man coach in the who played the same position as Pete Newell, arguably the best big man coach there was.

Oh wait, we already have one.

[allenmurray]

What we need is a big-man coach in the who played the same position as Pete Newell, arguably the best big man coach there was.

Oh wait, we already have one.

90% of the posters on this board don't know who Pete Newell is.

[dukemsu]

My suggestion:

We have a yearly thread, entitled "Wojo can't coach big men, (fill in appropriate year) edition", similar to the Hatred Tsunami threads.

dukemsu

[Cockabeau]

They both are ready for head coaching jobs and by them staying on K's staff-they are just plugging up the pipeline for all the others waiting in line-Williams,Paulus,Langdon,Etc.

I still can't believe that atleast one of them hasn't landed a HC gig yet...

[chrisheery]

but none of us (well most of us) don't really know how good these guys are as coaches. We have our perceptions, but we don't really know.

That said, my perception is this:

Collins is a basketball junkie and from all accounts works as hard as anyone could on analyzing the next opponent and helping the team prepare. Perhaps he was not the most "heady" player with his predisposition to jacking up shots, but many people are better coaches than they were players.

Wojo was essentially a coach on the floor in his senior year. However, he never had the requisite talent to be a stud. Does that preclude him from being a good coach? No way. Should he coach big men? No, probably not, but as has been discussed, there are many teams without a "big man coach." I think we should have one, but that is different than asking whether Wojo is an excellent staff member. I think he brings a lot to the table.

Spatola? no idea

Nate is a total badass and we all love hime despite the fact that most of us have never met him. That kind of "coolness" is obvious and must help with recruiting and team morale. The players clearly love him and he seems to be doing a great job with recruiting.

When CC or Wojo moves on, who should come in next? I guess we would all hope it is a big man. Carawell knew how to post players up and is already in the loop, so he has an inside track. I don't think it should be Paulus, just another PG and too close in age to the current guys. Its hard to come up with a post player who is not in the NBA and not already going down his own path (Giminski, Christian, Sheldon, Boozer). Maybe an outside guy would be ideal at this point. I'll leave that up to Coach K, I guess.

[obsesseddukefan]

They both are ready for head coaching jobs and by them staying on K's staff-they are just plugging up the pipeline for all the others waiting in line-Williams,Paulus,Langdon,Etc.

I still can't believe that atleast one of them hasn't landed a HC gig yet...

Agreed Cockabeau, I think Collins would make a fantastic HC anywhere he winds up.

[NSDukeFan]

They both are ready for head coaching jobs and by them staying on K's staff-they are just plugging up the pipeline for all the others waiting in line-Williams,Paulus,Langdon,Etc.

I still can't believe that atleast one of them hasn't landed a HC gig yet...

I assume this is a joke.

[SupaDave]

They both are ready for head coaching jobs and by them staying on K's staff-they are just plugging up the pipeline for all the others waiting in line-Williams,Paulus,Langdon,Etc.

I still can't believe that atleast one of them hasn't landed a HC gig yet...

And this is based on WHAT? Not only has the staff changed in the last two years but additions have been made to the coaching staff. Please explain...

[Duvall]

Codes. They should be brought back.

[Indoor66]

Codes. They should be brought back.

A big 10/4 on that, good buddy.

[-bdbd]

They both are ready for head coaching jobs and by them staying on K's staff-they are just plugging up the pipeline for all the others waiting in line-Williams,Paulus,Langdon,Etc.

I still can't believe that atleast one of them hasn't landed a HC gig yet...

That is actually my concern as well. There really hasn't been a lot of coaching turnover on the Duke staff in the last decade, especially from the perspective of college BB programs. Turnover would be desirable from the perspective of getting more disciples out there in the "real world" spreading the gospel of K's system/tactics, as well as prestige to Duke and for Duke BB, and to free up the pipeline for new blood/perspective to come in, such as Carawell, JayWil, Langdon, Laettner (? - was rumored to be interested when J. Dawkins left). BTW, anybody think Grant Hill might be interested in returning to coach once he retires from play-for-pay?

My suspicion is that K doesn't really push the guys to move on to the next level (HC -- I recall reading that he didn't favor JD going to Stanford, and argued against Amaker to Harvard, preferring more "selective" approaches.) Also, I understand that the Assistant Coaches make pretty good money right here in Durham, and it is obviously a comfortable, secure environment.

Lastly, every once in a while you do hear rumors that one of them was being considered for this or that HC vacancy - JD was rumored to have been offered more than one before he eventually accepted Stanford. I'm sure it is a tough question for Chris and Wojo - to accept at a FIU, VCU or USC offer, or wait for that Stanford or Notre Dame or Indiana type gig to (hopefully) come along...

:cool:

[greybeard]

As a big, you find space by anticipating where it will be in the next moment or the next moment after that and setting yourself up relative to where the ball will be coming from. Now, players who are good at that make point guards look good, if a point guard is smart enough to anticipate and see that the big sees something and then gets on the same page. Usually, in my experience, it is the big who is the initiator, although a big can set up a reception route based upon a read of the little as well.

Who can teach a big such things?

And, who can teach a big the things that go into setting up the move that will lead to a reception, the misdirected glance or slight move that he only acts like he wants the defender to miss? A big guy, a little, or no one.

And, who can teach a big how to develop different ways of bringing the ball from different catch positions to a shooting one, how to id when he needs to reset his weight before trying to shoot and how to do that to create advantage as well, how to decide in a mano second which foot he wants to catch it on and at what vector relative to the basket, etc.?

Littles I should think have no advantage when it comes to these matters, nor disadvantages. I do not know that they can be taught. There are things relative to all these elements that can be introduced into a player's repetoire, but overcoaching can lead to overthinking and paralysis.

There probably are aspects of how a team organizes to attack a particular defense they will be facing with particular personnel that dictate where certain openings will occur and how a big needs to be positioned to take advantage of them, but that is no different than coaching anyone else in such offensive positioning.

The real issue it seems to me are limiting judgments that coaches can put on players in the name of helping them improve, or tailoring a player's game to work around these limitations. I do not know the extent to which that is necessary, who makes those decisions, and how well they are communicated to leave a player empowered rather than diminished. I would hate to have to make such judgments myself, and will not pretend to know how I would do that. I do not think I could. I do not know that that is ever justified. But, if a coach's style is to do that, if a coaching team makes such a decision, it certainly is justified in the sense that that is what will be.

Now, what was the initial question here, I forget.

[CameronBornAndBred]

90% of the posters on this board don't know who Pete Newell is.
I'm gonna figure that answer out by the time I read the 30th thread that is hijacked by the "we need a big man coaching the big men" idea. We're probably in the mid twenties by now.

[Kedsy]

(HC -- I recall reading that he didn't favor JD going to Stanford, and argued against Amaker to Harvard, preferring more "selective" approaches.)

I don't remember where, but I thought I read K was very supportive of JD going to Stanford. And I don't recall seeing anything about K's opinion of Amaker to Harvard, but since it was Tommy's third coaching gig after he left Duke, (a) I'd be surprised to learn K argued against it, unless he thought going Ivy would impede Amaker's career path; and (b) don't understand what that has to do with K discouraging Duke's assistants from leaving, seeing as Amaker hadn't been a Duke assistant for years when he took the Harvard job.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I've pondered this question myself numerous times and it's a tough one to analyze/answer. There is no such evidence that suggests they are not doing their job well. I look back on when we had Dawkins, Amaker, Snyder (all former players) and I thought we had the best coaching staff in the country. A lot of people would agree with that as well. It's easy to look at the coaching staff and nit pick on their shortcomings (if there are any) and call for a change. I don't think it is that easy though in this situation. We have smelled success with them on the bench and who is to say they can't become a Dawkins or Snyder? They are all still fairly young and have a lot of good experience. I do have dreams of having a staff of Capel (after Coach K retires), JWill, Carrawell, and Nate James, but that is a long shot and probably won't happen any time soon. I can't sit here and say get rid of them because I don't think it would accomplish anything. Lastly, is this Chris Spattola's first year? I don't remember him being around last year, but I could be wrong. And is he a coach or just a glorified manager?

[Billy Dat]

-There used to be more buzz around Collins and Wojo getting HC jobs earlier in their assistant coach tenure, I remember Wojo being linked to the Penn State search and Collins being linked to a few searches. I haven't heard them linked to any lately - although my only source is this site :)

-Since K got the Team USA gig, I can't see these guys wanting to leave. They get to help coach the pros, and learn a lot from the other coaches and staff, that's a real once-in-a-lifetime type experience.

-I think this is an issue that we wring our hands over, but do you even know the full staff of the other top schools? I had to look up UNC's staff. You've got Steve Robinson, former FSU head coach who seems to be Roy's recruiting right hand. The other two? Jerod Haase who we remember when he played guard for Roy a KU and CB McGrath, Haase's roomate at KU - I don't even remember him as a player but he was a captain. OK, having Robinson is probably something - he's a former head coach with an uninspiring record, but seems to be a killer recruiter. Do we really think any of these guys are what makes things go at UNC, or are driving the big man development?

-I like that we keep it in the family and, most important, it's what K likes and K, like every other head coach, is what makes Duke go.

[BD80]

Duke assistants get GOOD head coaching jobs. Johnny to Stanford, Tommy to Seton Hall, Quinn to Misouri, Brey to Delaware. Johnny received many inquiries, but chose not to leave until his kids were older (he even let youger assistants travel for recruiting to spend more time at home with his family).

There are 2 main issues for ADs hiring head coaches, picking a good coach, and appearing to pick a good coach. Perhaps Duke assistants were the "safe" picks in pleasing rich boosters, but they were generally considered good coaches.

I think it fair to say that staying "in the family" has generated good coaches. Much of that is that Coach K gets to intimately know the young men as basketball players and can judge their potential as leaders and coaches. Of course, they are also already acclimated to what Coach K expects from individuals and teams.

Chris Collins will get either a very high level job (BCS conference) or a mid major job in the Chicago area, where he has tremendous recruiting ties. He may have been waiting for the team USA commitment to run.

Wojo may not get the same level of offers as soon, but he will gain fame as the assistant head coach, and offers will come.

Nate seems to be a natural recruiter. CC a natural coach. Spatola is West Point, isn't he? My guess he is highy effective in organization and leadership.

Maybe we should find a way to get Coach K and our assistants some experiences under other coaches, maybe under some of the best coaches in the business. Like maybe the USA national team. That kind of exchange of ideas would certainly stop people from questioning our coaching staff. Oh, maybe not.

Add to the equation the number of Dukies in the media that sit in on practices throughout the nation, particlarly Bilas; I would bet that there is a free flow of ideas that keep the program moving forward.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

The man (Coach K) has won 3 national championships and gone to a bunch of Final Fours along with numerous ACC Titles (that is technically winning the ACC tournament) as well as finishing first in the ACC a bunch of times. Why prey tell is it believed that he either can't coach or recognize coaching talent? Even John Wooden, YES John Wooden made mistakes in both evaluating talent and during games. PLEASE, if the players we thought were going to stay had stayed, etc. we would have a few more banners hanging the rafters of Cameron. There is nothing wrong with the coaching staff. Other schools wish they had our coaches and cohesion.

There will come a day when Coach K retires and these same people will be like, "This guy is no Coach K, Coach K knew how to put together a coaching staff that won." "Coach K never would have let x,y, or z happen." Enjoy what is transpiring. Our team looks awesome.

GO DUKE

[rthomas]

I ran into Tommy Amaker in the RDU airport many years ago when he was an assistant going on a recruiting trip and (he was as nice as hell) when I asked him why he hadn't taken a head coaching job he told me that Coach K only referred him to large basketball schools and that he made a nice amount of nickels running camps.

[Wildcat]

Great Coaches rarely start out at the top. They usually earn their stripes/reputation over a period of time. Wojo, Collins, Nate, if he's even considered a coach has yet to do so. In order to gain respect in the broader contextual basketball world, they will need to leave the nest of K, and establish their own credentials, experiences and philosophies. Until that happens, they will continue to be viewed as K clones and yes men.

I would like to see K bring in either an outsider, or someone older than he, or at least his counterpart; similar to USA coaching staff. Yes he has won 3 Titles, but as any great coach will tell you: "the players did it."

[SupaDave]

I would like to see K bring in either an outsider, or someone older than he, or at least his counterpart; similar to USA coaching staff. Yes he has won 3 Titles, but as any great coach will tell you: "the players did it."

I'm just curious. Is it not "working with outsiders" when a large portion of your staff works with not only USA Basketball teams, coaches, and officials but in addition to that Olympic officials, referees, and athletes?

[Cockabeau]

I mean come on.

I was advocating HC jobs for Wojo and Chris. 1)They are ready.2)It's time for some new blood.


K isn't going to be coaching forever.
The more ex players under K's tutelage the better as far as I'm concerned.

[NSDukeFan]

I mean come on.

I was advocating HC jobs for Wojo and Chris. 1)They are ready.2)It's time for some new blood.


K isn't going to be coaching forever.
The more ex players under K's tutelage the better as far as I'm concerned.

I don't doubt that Wojo and Chris are able to be successful head coaches. I guess I just don't see why a team that has had great success with them would not want to have them continue on their staff. I'm not sure I understand how having other ex players is better than what we currently have.