Czyz Transferring

[airowe]

http://www.thehoopsreport.com/article.aspx?id=394


Duke sophomore forward Olek Czyz has decided to transfer. The 6-foot-7, 235-pound combo forward was a highly touted recruit from the class of 2008 who chose Duke over Florida and Louisville. He was ranked by Rivals as the 29th best power forward and 112th best player overall in the class of 2008.

[juise]

I really, really hope not. But it is that time of year. :(

[Memphis Devil]

I can't say that this comes as a surprise. I think that everyone had pretty high hopes for Czyz coming in due to his alarming athletic ability, but his all around basketball skills just aren't there. Substantial playing time just doesn't seem to be in the cards for Olek especially considering the current state of our front court depth. If this is true, I hope he goes somewhere that he can make an impact.

[roywhite]

Olek, we hardly knew ye. Good luck.

The recruiting class of 2008 is now down to Miles Plumlee.

[BlueintheFace]

(sigh)

how many transfers is that in the last 5 years?

[yancem]

That's disappointing but not too surprising. A decade or so ago the expectations for immediate playing time was less and waiting your turn was more the norm. Unfortunately due to early nba entry becoming a norm, major programs are forced to bring in more and more talent to replace the losses. This unfortunately causes a situation where if you are not contributing as a freshman or sophomore, you may find yourself on the pine as a junior or senior as well.

Mart Pocius is a perfect example. While he was a solid player (fairly dynamic offensively) each year he was not only competing with his classmates but talented new freshman. His sophomore year in came Scheyer and Henderson. His junior year, Smith. Last year, Williams. Had he stuck around for his 5th year he would probably finally gotten some playing time since we are thin in the back court but I'm not sure how many minutes he would have stolen from Dawkins.

Freshman come in more prepared these days because they play so much aau ball. Czyz has a lot of god given ability but the experience advantage as a sophomore 10 years ago is greatly diminished. I don't see him getting many more minutes as the season goes along and if Singler stays next year or we sign Smith, I don't see a better outlook next year.

It's quite unfortunate for him. He seems to be a good kid and I think that he has a chance to become a solid basketball player but going forward, I'm not sure where he finds minutes. I think sitting out a year could be very good for him (look what it did for King) unfortunately to do that he has to either get injured or transfer. My question is was he over sold on his place on the team, did he over value his abilities or did something else not jive. I always hate to see players transfer but he may be better off at a non power program.

[Tim1515]

yeah i'll miss Olek but i think this is the best for him. Too many people tried to compare Olek's potential career to McClure's when they were actually complete opposites.

K isn't going to play someone significant minutes who is raw on the court unless he has no other options. Olek is the type of player that can go to another team, play good minutes and put up good numbers. Everyone will look at the numbers and assume Duke missed out...but what you don't see in the stat sheet is what would've kept Czyz off the Duke court. Mental mistakes, bad positioning, bad shots...etc.

He's a good kid and i wish him well...not sure Duke was ever the right fit.

[BlueintheFace]

I'd still like to hear this from a more reputable source though... (not you airowe ;))

[ChicagoCrazy84]

(sigh)

how many transfers is that in the last 5 years?


Way too many man, it's getting ridiculous. We have to be up near the top in amount of transfers the last decade and the last few have hurt with TK, EWill, Jamal Boykin, and even Michael Thompson. I didn't go to Duke, so I don't know first hand, but would you say a lot of them are because of the rigorous academics? Some just didn't get a ton of PT, but that happens everywhere, and you don't see them jumping ship. Can someone give me more insight? I can't stand to see this! Coach K and everyone has always preached Duke basketball as a family and that seems to be getting thrown out the window.

[cspan37421]

Duke BB is a family. K's not throwing the concept out the window at all. If the story is true, this is more a runaway than a disownment.

No idea about the motivation, but it could be PT. But it's not like K is going to go to a 10 man rotation (that does have some advantages when you're absolutely loaded, but...).

[Sixthman]

If true, there is no escaping a problem in our program and it will be time for Kevin white to insert himself.

[Duvall]

Way too many man, it's getting ridiculous. We have to be up near the top in amount of transfers the last decade and the last few have hurt with TK, EWill, Jamal Boykin, and even Michael Thompson. I didn't go to Duke, so I don't know first hand, but would you say a lot of them are because of the rigorous academics?

Not even remotely.

[Duvall]

If true, there is no escaping a problem in our program and it will be time for Kevin white to insert himself.

I hope this is a joke. What, we're going to guarantee playing time for everyone now?

[roywhite]

Duke BB is a family. K's not throwing the concept out the window at all. If the story is true, this is more a runaway than a disownment.

No idea about the motivation, but it could be PT. But it's not like K is going to go to a 10 man rotation (that does have some advantages when you're absolutely loaded, but...).

The issue of transfers from guys not getting early playing time is a tough one for Duke.

My theory is that the retention of players not getting early playing time works out as a big advantage for UNC, and for certain other in-state schools. For example, Mike Copeland, Will Graves, Reyshawn Terry, and David Noel were all in-state recruits who had been UNC fans all their lives and were thrilled to get a scholarship offer. They are less likely to transfer and often develop into good players.

Not all that often does the same situation happen at Duke. Nearly all the players are highly recruited prospects from outside the state and don't hesitate to move on when things don't work out their first year or two. Lee Melchionni and Clay Buckley are examples of guys who did stick around and contributed but each had strong family ties to Duke.

UNC is not immune from transfers; no school really is, especially in recent years. But the "end of the bench" guys at Duke seem more likely to move on in search of playing time. It has an impact on the program over time.

[Jumbo]

Way too many man, it's getting ridiculous. We have to be up near the top in amount of transfers the last decade and the last few have hurt with TK, EWill, Jamal Boykin, and even Michael Thompson. I didn't go to Duke, so I don't know first hand, but would you say a lot of them are because of the rigorous academics? Some just didn't get a ton of PT, but that happens everywhere, and you don't see them jumping ship. Can someone give me more insight? I can't stand to see this! Coach K and everyone has always preached Duke basketball as a family and that seems to be getting thrown out the window.


If true, there is no escaping a problem in our program and it will be time for Kevin white to insert himself.


I would respectfully ask people to familiarize themselves with facts before adding baseless opinions to conversations. First of all, it is not a "problem" if/when the 10th man on a basketball team -- with no prospect of legit playing time on the horizon -- decides to go play somewhere else.

Secondly, Duke is not in some sort of unique position with transfers. I posted the following list (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=131108&postcount=45) a year and a half ago, after Taylor King left. Since then, Duke has obviously lost Elliot Williams, but that was due to extenuating circumstances. And other programs have lost more players -- Drew Gordon left UCLA, Jai Lucas left Florida, etc. In fact, Florida has lost eight players as transfers since the 2003-04 season.

If Duke -- as well as other elite programs -- continue build rosters with 10-plus highly regarded players, some guys simply won't be happy with their playing time and will leave. That's a fact of life. Hopefully this isn't true, but if it is, we'll move on.

[killerleft]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixthman
If true, there is no escaping a problem in our program and it will be time for Kevin white to insert himself.

Duvall: I hope this is a joke. What, we're going to guarantee playing time for everyone now?

Yeah, just what is Kevin White going to do about it, and why do you think he would "insert himself"? Please explain.

[BlueintheFace]

I would respectfully ask people to familiarize themselves with facts before adding baseless opinions to conversations. First of all, it is not a "problem" if/when the 10th man on a basketball team -- with no prospect of legit playing time on the horizon -- decides to go play somewhere else.

Secondly, Duke is not in some sort of unique position with transfers. I posted the following list (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=131108&postcount=45) a year and a half ago, after Taylor King left. Since then, Duke has obviously lost Elliot Williams, but that was due to extenuating circumstances. And other programs have lost more players -- Drew Gordon left UCLA, Jai Lucas left Florida, etc. In fact, Florida has lost eight players as transfers since the 2003-04 season.

If Duke -- as well as other elite programs -- continue build rosters with 10-plus highly regarded players, some guys simply won't be happy with their playing time and will leave. That's a fact of life. Hopefully this isn't true, but if it is, we'll move on.



Georgetown has had some issues too.

[Jumbo]

Georgetown has had some issues too.

Yup. Jeremiah Rivers and Vernon Macklin, among others. Plenty of updates to that list since I posted it in April of 2008 -- but I'm way too tired and I just don't have the interest to look up the more recent info.

[juise]

Austin Rivers

I'm sure they wish that they were lucky enough to have Austin for a while. They had Jeremiah. ;)

[Jumbo]

I'm sure they wish that they were lucky enough to have Austin for a while. They had Jeremiah. ;)

Ha! Fixing now ... nothing to see here ... ;)

[Duvall]

I'm sure they wish that they were lucky enough to have Austin for a while. They had Jeremiah. ;)

RUMOR: Austin Rivers to decommit from Florida, sign with Duke, attend Duke and then transfer back to Florida. Can anyone confirm?

[natedog4ever]

If true, there is no escaping a problem in our program and it will be time for Kevin white to insert himself.

Jeez, that sounds like it's going to be painful for someone.

[RoyalBlue08]

If Olek if transferring, then I wish him well. Any suggestions that this represents a problem I find silly to be honest. If guys aren't good enough to get playing time and want to go to a school with less talent so they can play, I don't fault them. And I don't see how that matters to Duke on the court; if anything, it just frees up a scholarship for us.

[rhcpflea99]

Czyz has potential but I really believe he was not going to be a factor until his junior or senior year. Good luck!!!!

[NovaScotian]

RUMOR: Austin Rivers to decommit from Florida, sign with Duke, attend Duke and then transfer back to Florida. Can anyone confirm?

yea, i heard the same rumor but from a different, also very trusted source.

[airowe]

I'd still like to hear this from a more reputable source though... (not you airowe ;))

No worries BitFace. In fact, it is a good thing for both parties.

[elvis14]

I really hope this isn't true. I was really looking forward to seeing Olek contribute next year a little and the year after a little more. He seems like a good kid (even if he does look a bit lost on the court right now).

I don't like it when kids transfer out. I didn't like it when TK left either, for example...I would have rather seen him round into shape and contribute.

If it is true, I wish Olek good luck wherever he lands.

[Sixthman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixthman
If true, there is no escaping a problem in our program and it will be time for Kevin white to insert himself.

Duvall: I hope this is a joke. What, we're going to guarantee playing time for everyone now?

Yeah, just what is Kevin White going to do about it, and why do you think he would "insert himself"? Please explain.

What I see is that Coach K is, deservedly, a Coaching and Duke Icon. However, everyone (from the President to my 3rd grader) needs to work within a framework of accountability of some sort, something that Coach K, with his military background, can surely appreciate. Some things, a person with the accomplishments of Coach K has earned a pass on. No one need hold him accountable for wins and losses, on-court strategy, or allocation of playing time. In other areas, there are larger issues, and I am concerned that program transfers is such an area. If accountability is appropriate, Kevin White, Coach K's boss, is the person to do this (and certainly not me, or anyone else on this board). Indeed, if Kevin White is not in a position to hold Coach K accountable on appropriate issues, he is the wrong man for his job. I believe program transfers are such an issue because they have the potential to tarnish the University and other athletic programs. Kevin White would insert himself because doing so is part of his job. Duke does and should hold itself to its own unique and high standards. The possibility that other programs experience similar incidence of transfers is not an comfortable excuse. A regular pattern of transfers infers that players do not value the larger Duke experience, something Coach K has always emphasized, or the Duke basketball family.

[Wander]

Five transfers in five years at a program with 100% stable coaching is troubling to me, and I'm not sure it hasn't hurt us a little basketball-wise. Not the biggest problem in the world with it mainly being our reserves, but I still don't like it.

[RoyalBlue08]

What I see is that Coach K is, deservedly, a Coaching and Duke Icon. However, everyone (from the President to my 3rd grader) needs to work within a framework of accountability of some sort, something that Coach K, with his military background, can surely appreciate. Some things, a person with the accomplishments of Coach K has earned a pass on. No one need hold him accountable for wins and losses, on-court strategy, or allocation of playing time. In other areas, there are larger issues, and I am concerned that program transfers is such an area. If accountability is appropriate, Kevin White, Coach K's boss, is the person to do this (and certainly not me, or anyone else on this board). Indeed, if Kevin White is not in a position to hold Coach K accountable on appropriate issues, he is the wrong man for his job. I believe program transfers are such an issue because they have the potential to tarnish the University and other athletic programs. Kevin White would insert himself because doing so is part of his job. Duke does and should hold itself to its own unique and high standards. The possibility that other programs experience similar incidence of transfers is not an comfortable excuse. A regular pattern of transfers infers that players do not value the larger Duke experience, something Coach K has always emphasized, or the Duke basketball family.

LOL. I am going to ignore your inference that players that want more playing time transferring is somehow Coach K's fault and skip right part where Kevin White holds K accountable for this. What punishment would you suggest? What would you do if you were in Kevin White's shoes?

[BD80]

I don't have any problem if Olek wants to transfer. I do have a problem with speculation as to whether or why he is transferring. If he does choose to leave, I hope to see him at a school that I can root for. I will root for him wherever he goes (except uCon or unc).

Wonder if Brey or Johnny D or Capel have a scholarship available?

[dukemsu]

What I see is that Coach K is, deservedly, a Coaching and Duke Icon. However, everyone (from the President to my 3rd grader) needs to work within a framework of accountability of some sort, something that Coach K, with his military background, can surely appreciate. Some things, a person with the accomplishments of Coach K has earned a pass on. No one need hold him accountable for wins and losses, on-court strategy, or allocation of playing time. In other areas, there are larger issues, and I am concerned that program transfers is such an area. If accountability is appropriate, Kevin White, Coach K's boss, is the person to do this (and certainly not me, or anyone else on this board). Indeed, if Kevin White is not in a position to hold Coach K accountable on appropriate issues, he is the wrong man for his job. I believe program transfers are such an issue because they have the potential to tarnish the University and other athletic programs. Kevin White would insert himself because doing so is part of his job. Duke does and should hold itself to its own unique and high standards. The possibility that other programs experience similar incidence of transfers is not an comfortable excuse. A regular pattern of transfers infers that players do not value the larger Duke experience, something Coach K has always emphasized, or the Duke basketball family.

I am a bit puzzled. Are you inferring that Kevin White dictate to his Hall of Fame basketball coach what players get what amounts of playing time?

dukemsu

[roywhite]

Just based on a few comments from Coach K, I believe he and Kevin White have a good relationship and mutual respect. I don't know how often they talk, or what exactly they talk about. They may have some discussion about Olek Czyz and his possible transfer; it would be fine if they did.

But I don't see how this is some sort of failure or weakness on the part of the basketball program, that would in turn reflect badly on the Head Coach. There are sometimes circumstances where players leave a program and speak about verbal abuse from the coach or inappropriate behavior---that appears to have been the case at Kansas with football coach Mark Mangino. But there is no suggestion of this at Duke.

The main factor in many of these transfers is simply a desire for a player to go somewhere to get regular playing time, or an opportunity that was not available at Duke, simply due to being behind better players. Not a big mystery and certainly not a scandal, or even an "accountability" issue.

[mgtr]

I don't like it when kids transfer out. I didn't like it when TK left either, for example...I would have rather seen him round into shape and contribute.

That was one problem TK had -- his shape was too round when he was at Duke. He looks to be in much better shape now.

[sagegrouse]

What I see is that Coach K is, deservedly, a Coaching and Duke Icon. However, everyone (from the President to my 3rd grader) needs to work within a framework of accountability of some sort, something that Coach K, with his military background, can surely appreciate. Some things, a person with the accomplishments of Coach K has earned a pass on. No one need hold him accountable for wins and losses, on-court strategy, or allocation of playing time. In other areas, there are larger issues, and I am concerned that program transfers is such an area. If accountability is appropriate, Kevin White, Coach K's boss, is the person to do this (and certainly not me, or anyone else on this board). Indeed, if Kevin White is not in a position to hold Coach K accountable on appropriate issues, he is the wrong man for his job. I believe program transfers are such an issue because they have the potential to tarnish the University and other athletic programs. Kevin White would insert himself because doing so is part of his job. Duke does and should hold itself to its own unique and high standards. The possibility that other programs experience similar incidence of transfers is not an comfortable excuse. A regular pattern of transfers infers that players do not value the larger Duke experience, something Coach K has always emphasized, or the Duke basketball family.

One of the many books I thought of writing but never did was an advice book for young professionals. One of my non-existent chapters was entitled, "Don't Look in the Want Ads - Look in the Mirror." It was supposedly aimed at people who felt they were not competitive at their existing company or job. My advice is that (a) it is costly and uncertain to change, (b) the world is pretty much the same everywhere, and (c) you would be better off to assess your strengths and weaknesses and make improvements.

That would be my advice to folks not getting PT at Duke. But it is a hard sell, and the rewards for breaking into the high levels of professional basketball are so large that players will do almost anything to make that jump. So far as your reference to "players do not value the Duke experience," I would say that being on athletic schoraship anywhere makes you a paid servant of the university and your experience is nowhere like that of most students. That said, it has always seemed to me that the Duke basektball teams have a family atmosphere and that the program molds outstanding young men, whom we all can be proud of.

Can't imagine what Kevin White would assess as a problem. First of all, his job is to hire and fire coaches and help provide the resources for them to be successful. This episode, plus the other transfers, doesn't even make his list. A fairly unknown player from Europe and Nevada shows up and can't make a contribution at all in 1 1/2 years. Does this mean that K can't evaluate talent? Really? Does it mean that K is not doing his job if the player is not content to sit at the end of the bench for four years? Really?

It seems to me that Duke has one of the four or five best basketball coaches in the history of college basketball, when you add the off-court experience to the success on the court. Doesn't look like a problem for the AD; in fact, it is one of the reasons he came to Duke.

My two cents - change freely given.

sagegrouse

[Sixthman]

I am a bit puzzled. Are you inferring that Kevin White dictate to his Hall of Fame basketball coach what players get what amounts of playing time?

dukemsu

No, I said exactly the opposite. No one has any business second guessing Coach K on the point of playing time. Further, effective management and supervision is neither punitive nor dictatorial. I was inferring that it is inevitable that some players on any team will be disappointed with playing time and that in an effective program, players see reasons to stick with the team even when disappointed with playing time. This might be valuing the Duke Basketball family or loyalty to team mates, this might be valuing the larger university experience, this might be simply sticking to a commitment made . . .

[Sixthman]

Can't imagine what Kevin White would assess as a problem. First of all, his job is to hire and fire coaches and help provide the resources for them to be successful. This episode, plus the other transfers, doesn't even make his list. A fairly unknown player from Europe and Nevada shows up and can't make a contribution at all in 1 1/2 years. Does this mean that K can't evaluate talent? Really? Does it mean that K is not doing his job if the player is not content to sit at the end of the bench for four years? Really?

It seems to me that Duke has one of the four or five best basketball coaches in the history of college basketball, when you add the off-court experience to the success on the court. Doesn't look like a problem for the AD; in fact, it is one of the reasons he came to Duke.

My two cents - change freely given.

sagegrouse

I'm not suggesting that Kevin White has a problem. I am suggesting that everyone, no matter what level of success, needs someone people he respects with the ability to share a fresh or different perspective. A manager does not have to know the answers to a problem or challenging situation to be of value in helping someone on his team find the solution. I own and manage my own business. I still employ people who know little about my day to day business issues to coach me through challenges. Coach K and Kevin White are on the same team, and no doubt Kevin White has some valuable perspectives to share.

[Spret42]

Transfers do happen at every major league college basketball program and Dukes rate isn't that much higher than most. It is a function of what a high level basketball program is, and that is a highly competitive environment. Each and every player who comes in knows he is joining a team with other talented people and his performance will determine whether he sinks or swims.

It is strange that this happens so much in what is theoretically "amateur basketball." We would all of course envision a team where no one would get recruited over etc.

But as we all know, there is really nothing "amateur" about college basketball, especially at the level Duke competes. That isn't rip on Duke or any other school, it is a fact. There is a lot of money and prestige involved.

There is a HUGE business aspect to what goes on, and yes, Coach Krzyzewski is as much a business man as he is a coach/teacher/mentor. He has turned coaching at Duke into position where he makes a salary that puts him easily in what, say the top 2% of Americans.

He is gonna bring in people to compete for the right to play on his basketball team, if they can't compete, they may decide to leave. I am sure he understands that and I am sure he lets they young men know that.

I am NOT bashing Coach Krzyzewski; I am sure he cares about these young men, but at the end of the day it is what it is.

[CameronBornAndBred]

It's a name gone, and only a name. I hate to say that, but Duke has played a year and a half without him and it's obvious he is not part of K's solution. It's a good choice for him and the team.

[Mike Corey]

Jumbo's old post with transfer data from other elite programs would be a wonderful asset right now, if anyone has a few minutes to dig it up.

[roywhite]

I'm not suggesting that Kevin White has a problem. I am suggesting that everyone, no matter what level of success, needs someone people he respects with the ability to share a fresh or different perspective. A manager does not have to know the answers to a problem or challenging situation to be of value in helping someone on his team find the solution. I own and manage my own business. I still employ people who know little about my day to day business issues to coach me through challenges. Coach K and Kevin White are on the same team, and no doubt Kevin White has some valuable perspectives to share.

I'm not sure if you're backing off your original point/post, where you called for Kevin White to get involved here, which sounded like you believed this to be a problem that Coach K or the basketball program had that required some counseling.

As noted elsewhere, this sort of thing is happening at other high profile basketball schools also; top basketball prospects are looking for playing time and ultimately a way to a professional career (whether that be NBA, Europe or otherwise). So they may see a chance to go elsewhere, primarily to develop and showcase their talents.

[Bob Green]

Jumbo's old post with transfer data from other elite programs would be a wonderful asset right now, if anyone has a few minutes to dig it up.

Jumbo already linked to his old post. See Post #15 in this thread.

[JasonEvans]

I'll say it... It's over!


The 6-foot-7, 235-pound combo forward was a highly touted recruit from the class of 2008 who chose Duke over Florida and Louisville. He was ranked by Rivals as the 29th best power forward and 112th best player overall in the class of 2008.

Ummm, "highly touted" means different things in different programs. Olek is most assuredly on the lower-end of kids who come to Duke when it comes to their recruiting ranking.

While being a fine athlete, Olek was still an unrefined basketball player. He seemed hopelessly lost on defense much of the time he was in the game. He was a great run-jump kid and seemed to be working hard, but it was evident to me that the Duke system never clicked for him.

I wish him well and I suspect he will find success at some other school that is a little lower level of competition.

--Jason "the pity is he might have had a bigger role next season" Evans

[Azdukefan]

Not to harp on the guy but he really never would have been a huge asset (maybe a decent role player in the future). Playing him over anyone outside of Peters, Johnson, and Davidson would be doing a diservice to our program. I wish him good luck but can't say I will lose any sleep over it.

[NSDukeFan]

No, I said exactly the opposite. No one has any business second guessing Coach K on the point of playing time. Further, effective management and supervision is neither punitive nor dictatorial. I was inferring that it is inevitable that some players on any team will be disappointed with playing time and that in an effective program, players see reasons to stick with the team even when disappointed with playing time. This might be valuing the Duke Basketball family or loyalty to team mates, this might be valuing the larger university experience, this might be simply sticking to a commitment made . . .
I highlighted two points here because I think they are most relevant. I certainly agree with the first point I highlighted and it is for that reason that a student-athlete, who is free to make his own decisions and is not being dictated to, will sometimes choose to go somewhere else to play more basketball, irrespective of everything else. I expect there are many who would do the same in the same situation.
I think the bottom line is Olek just may be too athletic for the program ;)

[superdave]

No worries BitFace. In fact, it is a good thing for both parties.

Not to be insensitive to Olek's big decision - but this frees a scholarship for 2011. This means if we bring in a SF in 2010, then we still have 3 scholarships available for 2011, right? Rivers, MP3, QM. Is that the general thought?

[SMO]

I'll be sad to see him go if this is confirmed. It would have been great to see him have an impact in his junior or senior years but if Duke's recruiting goes well, that really would not have happened. That said, when you consider the entire situation with Olek I don't think it reflects poorly at all on Duke. He couldn't earn PT, which was more important to him than a Duke education, and he chose to go elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with that.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Please don't take this personally, sixth (and 6th) man, but you guys crack me up. You know not of what you post. Please refer to the HPR topics referenced above. http://www.duke.edu/~bct1/images/DBRHPR7.1asPDF.pdf

Czyz did play against Gardner Webb. Not much, but he did play late in the second half. Got beat defensively more than once too.

I'm sure Olek Czyz is a nice guy (I've never met him so I can only guess), but his talent level is nothing more than a good practice player and mop-up player at this time. Maybe he'd develop into a good roll player by the time he was a senior, but I'm sure with his athleticism he has greater aspirations than that, and I admire him for that. While the Duke experience is of great value, it won't lead him to the NBA and transferring to a lesser program where he can be a star (and lose badly when that team plays the Dukes of the world) is a better path for him if that's his dream.

[strawbs]

though you never like to see a player transfer, this one doesn't really bother me. I know he hasn't gotten a lot of pt in his short time at duke, but he really didn't deserve any. When he was in the game he looked extremely unpolished and never really showed anything. The only exceptional skill he had was his ability to jump high. It's not like he was a good shooter, rebounder, or defender. In my opinion it's not like we are losing a whole lot. I think it's safe to assume that he probably wouldn't be ready to contribute in a conference like the acc until his senior year, and even then he probably wouldn't be more then an 8th or 9th guy. I'm just glad we don't have to hear anyone say "i wish olek could have gotten more playing time" after every game anymore.
At least this way he has the opportunity to transfer to a smaller school where he could get some pt. Hopefully he can develop into a solid player wherever he goes

[miramar]

That's a real shame all around, but I certainly wish Olek all the best at another school.

Nevertheless, I would say that this transfer is the least surprising of all the recent ones. As noted previously, he was ranked 112 in his class by Rivals, which is far beyond any Duke recruit I can remember offhand. They had him as the 29th-best power forward in his class, but he really didn't seem to be a power forward, so in fact he may have been ranked too highly.

I am sure that there are plenty of smaller programs where he would be a productive player next December, so I hope he will be able to find one in that 30-day window.

[moonpie23]

good luck olek....i really wish it had worked out for you and duke...

[UrinalCake]

I think it's a little more than a coincidence that except for Elliot, all of the guys who have transferee lately have been big guys. I guess TK and Olek are wings/small forwards, but there hasn't been a single pure guard who has left.

In my opinion, either we're misevaluating talent or we're taking chances on guys who are "projects" because we have positions to fill. It doesn't necessarily hurt us to have guys transfer who aren't getting the playing time, but it begs the question of why they were recruited to begin with.

[langdonfan]

Uhhhm...I'm not saying this report isn't true, but as of 10:00 pm no other source seems to be reporting this. Seriously, who is Ryan Feldman and how was he able to "break" this news several hours ago? Is there any confirmation yet?

[Sixthman]

Please don't take this personally, sixth (and 6th) man, but you guys crack me up. You know not of what you post. Please refer to the HPR topics referenced above. http://www.duke.edu/~bct1/images/DBRHPR7.1asPDF.pdf

Czyz did play against Gardner Webb. Not much, but he did play late in the second half. Got beat defensively more than once too.

I'm sure Olek Czyz is a nice guy (I've never met him so I can only guess), but his talent level is nothing more than a good practice player and mop-up player at this time. Maybe he'd develop into a good roll player by the time he was a senior, but I'm sure with his athleticism he has greater aspirations than that, and I admire him for that. While the Duke experience is of great value, it won't lead him to the NBA and transferring to a lesser program where he can be a star (and lose badly when that team plays the Dukes of the world) is a better path for him if that's his dream.

Ozzie, don't take this personally, but unless I am missing something, it doesn't sound like you've read any of my posts. I have offered no opinion as to whether Olek is leaving, whether any such departure is good or bad for the team, or good or bad for Olek. My specific opinion is that number of transfers the program has experienced in general is undesirable for program (which is a debatable point, if any one cares to debate it), and that the frequency of departures could have implications outside of the program. I get your point that more playing time someplace else can be a better path to the NBA for a bench dweller, but in Olek's case, don't agree.

[roywhite]

My specific opinion is that number of transfers the program has experienced in general is undesirable for program (which is a debatable point, if any one cares to debate it), and that the frequency of departures could have implications outside of the program. I get your point that more playing time someplace else can be a better path to the NBA for a bench dweller, but in Olek's case, don't agree.


I'm not sure you've adequately explained your first post which stated..
"If true, there is no escaping a problem in our program and it will be time for Kevin white to insert himself."

Several posters have responded to that with comments that you over-stated the problem, or are simply wrong.

[Lord Ash]

Regardless of how many players transfer at other programs, I am a bit disheartened to see it happen as often as it has at my own beloved school. For every player who has left and I've been okay with it there is another who I wish never left (paging Jamal Boykin!)

[6th Man]

Please don't take this personally, sixth (and 6th) man, but you guys crack me up. You know not of what you post.

This is the very reason I deleted my post. I am tired of folks like yourself with your holier than thou attitude. You are correct. Olek played 2 minutes so the post I deleted where I said he din't play was indeed wrong. My point was he got no meaningful minutes. They are ripping Gardner Webb apart and Scheyer, Singler and company are still in the game late. I was merely trying to point out that the bench should get a little more PT in games like this. They work hard to be student athletes at Duke and practice hard. They should at least get a little PT in the games where they can. (2 minutes isn't really playing in my opinion). I don't think any of the guys that usually never play will develop. I'm just saying throw them a bone in games like this.

Ozzie, you may not agree with me, but no reason to disrespect me or sixth man for our opinions.

[Sixthman]

I'm not sure you've adequately explained your first post which stated..
"If true, there is no escaping a problem in our program and it will be time for Kevin white to insert himself."

Several posters have responded to that with comments that you over-stated the problem, or are simply wrong.

The problem I suggest would he negative fallout from what is perceived as a frequent stream of transfers. As I said before (in at least one and maybe two posts), this infers that neither the team experience nor the university offer enough to players to overcome other problems (which we presume is lack of playing time, but could be other factors). This is undesirable, and because our basketball team has such a high profile, can have implications outside of the basketball program. As I suggested before, Kevin White can serve in his role as the leader of the athletic department and university to assess the concerns in this broader context and, help in the process of shining light on how to manage things better. It's fine if other's think I am wrong, but would be more interesting if they said why.

[Acymetric]

This is the very reason I deleted my post. I am tired of folks like yourself with your holier than thou attitude. You are correct. Olek played 2 minutes so the post I deleted where I said he din't play was indeed wrong. My point was he got no meaningful minutes. They are ripping Gardner Webb apart and Scheyer, Singler and company are still in the game late. I was merely trying to point out that the bench should get a little more PT in games like this. They work hard to be student athletes at Duke and practice hard. They should at least get a little PT in the games where they can. (2 minutes isn't really playing in my opinion). I don't think any of the guys that usually never play will develop. I'm just saying throw them a bone in games like this.

Ozzie, you may not agree with me, but no reason to disrespect me or sixth man for our opinions.

Look, Olek went in, and G-W immediately went on a 7-0 run. It was not a coincidence. Just about any coach would have pulled him there. Maybe he should have got the chance to go back in, maybe not, but I'm not really sure he deserved any more of a chance than he got based on how he performed...

[MADevil30]

I'm not suggesting that Kevin White has a problem. I am suggesting that everyone, no matter what level of success, needs someone people he respects with the ability to share a fresh or different perspective. A manager does not have to know the answers to a problem or challenging situation to be of value in helping someone on his team find the solution. I own and manage my own business. I still employ people who know little about my day to day business issues to coach me through challenges. Coach K and Kevin White are on the same team, and no doubt Kevin White has some valuable perspectives to share.

Sixthman, please try and put yourself in Olek's shoes. You are a very good basketball player, but not good enough to play professionally (at least in America, maybe anywhere). You are a sophomore in college, meaning that you have two more years to play the sport you have (hopefully) loved for much of your life, you have certainly devoted A TON of time to it. However, you are on a team that has a lot of players that are better than you; no hard feelings about it, but many of the player who join your team in the future will be too, because your team is good enough to get them. So, would you rather spend your potential last 2 years as an athlete sitting and watching others play, or would you want to put yourself in a situation where you could actually contribute?

Your point that there is more to Duke and Duke basketball than playing time is valid, but you have to realize how much basketball consumes these guys lives. I can't imagine what it would be like to watch your last chance to play pass you by because you sat on the bench. This is not a problem with Duke, certainly not Coach K; it is a player wanting to make the most of his last chance.

I wish Olek the best and hope he finds a team where he can contribute and grow, especially in his basketball IQ (and the best way to do that is to be on the court)

[El_Diablo]

The problem I suggest would he negative fallout from what is perceived as a frequent stream of transfers. As I said before (in at least one and maybe two posts), this infers that neither the team experience nor the university offer enough to players to overcome other problems (which we presume is lack of playing time, but could be other factors). This is undesirable, and because our basketball team has such a high profile, can have implications outside of the basketball program. As I suggested before, Kevin White can serve in his role as the leader of the athletic department and university to assess the concerns in this broader context and, help in the process of shining light on how to manage things better. It's fine if other's think I am wrong, but would be more interesting if they said why.

Okay, I think you're wrong.

Reason 1: I don't think the AD "inserting himself" by "assessing the concerns in a broader context" will necessarily do anything for a player who just wants more minutes.

Reason 2: I think it would be counterproductive for an AD to counter the coach's approach if we think the coach is closer to the player and actually understands the situation better.

Reason 3: I think Coach K has done just fine running the basketball program for the past 30 years without having his bosses insert themselves into the process.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Ozzie, don't take this personally, but unless I am missing something, it doesn't sound like you've read any of my posts. I have offered no opinion as to whether Olek is leaving, whether any such departure is good or bad for the team, or good or bad for Olek. My specific opinion is that number of transfers the program has experienced in general is undesirable for program (which is a debatable point, if any one cares to debate it), and that the frequency of departures could have implications outside of the program. I get your point that more playing time someplace else can be a better path to the NBA for a bench dweller, but in Olek's case, don't agree.



Please don't take this personally, sixth (and 6th) man, but you guys crack me up. You know not of what you post.

This is the very reason I deleted my post. I am tired of folks like yourself with your holier than thou attitude. You are correct. Olek played 2 minutes so the post I deleted where I said he din't play was indeed wrong. My point was he got no meaningful minutes. They are ripping Gardner Webb apart and Scheyer, Singler and company are still in the game late. I was merely trying to point out that the bench should get a little more PT in games like this. They work hard to be student athletes at Duke and practice hard. They should at least get a little PT in the games where they can. (2 minutes isn't really playing in my opinion). I don't think any of the guys that usually never play will develop. I'm just saying throw them a bone in games like this.

Ozzie, you may not agree with me, but no reason to disrespect me or sixth man for our opinions.
The problem I suggest would he negative fallout from what is perceived as a frequent stream of transfers. As I said before (in at least one and maybe two posts), this infers that neither the team experience nor the university offer enough to players to overcome other problems (which we presume is lack of playing time, but could be other factors). This is undesirable, and because our basketball team has such a high profile, can have implications outside of the basketball program. As I suggested before, Kevin White can serve in his role as the leader of the athletic department and university to assess the concerns in this broader context and, help in the process of shining light on how to manage things better. It's fine if other's think I am wrong, but would be more interesting if they said why.

I did read your posts, both sixth and 6th, and think you're both wrong. If lower level players want to transfer, so be it. K gets blasted here when he doesn't go after "back up" players for depth, and when he does, he gets blasted for getting them and then when they get disappointed with their playing time and leave for greener pastures, he gets blasted again. Olek got one start this season - the second exhibition game I think? Probably the only one he'd ever get, barring injury to other players. Boateng? Boykin? Again, nice raw talents who we've never missed, and would never have gotten significant playing time. E-Will left for other (personal) reasons.

The Kevin White reference is just plain ridiculous, as has been stated by others above.

[Sixthman]

Okay, I think you're wrong.

Reason 1: I don't think the AD "inserting himself" by "assessing the concerns in a broader context" will necessarily do anything for a player who just wants more minutes.

Reason 2: I think it would be counterproductive for an AD to counter the coach's approach if we think the coach is closer to the player and actually understands the situation better.

Reason 3: I think Coach K has done just fine running the basketball program for the past 30 years without having his bosses insert themselves into the process.

And I agree with all three of your points and am not advocating a position which would implicate any of them. Your points are about the player and this specific decision; my points are about the perceived trend of regular transfers and the need for someone with a perspective other than managing the day to operations of the basketball team to address the problem of those perceptions, which I have suggested have implications beyond the basketball team.

[Jumbo]

The problem I suggest would he negative fallout from what is perceived as a frequent stream of transfers. As I said before (in at least one and maybe two posts), this infers that neither the team experience nor the university offer enough to players to overcome other problems (which we presume is lack of playing time, but could be other factors). This is undesirable, and because our basketball team has such a high profile, can have implications outside of the basketball program. As I suggested before, Kevin White can serve in his role as the leader of the athletic department and university to assess the concerns in this broader context and, help in the process of shining light on how to manage things better. It's fine if other's think I am wrong, but would be more interesting if they said why.

I think you are making the mistake of overestimating how different the "Duke experience" is for a basketball player than vs. one at another school. Fact is, these guys all end up where they are because they are great basketball players. In terms of time spent, it's their top college priority, particularly when you add the summer into the equation. For almost any basketball player, if you're not getting to play basketball (in games) for a long period of time, you're going to look for a place where you can enjoy the fruits of your labor and perhaps extend your career, regardless of how much you enjoy some of the other aspects of your particular school. That's just how it works.

I showed the stats from other elite basketball programs and it proves that Duke is hardly suffering from a higher transfer rate. So, if you're disappointed that things aren't different at Duke, I'm sorry, but your expectations are just too high. And the fact is that you DID call for Kevin White to do something about this perceived problem. Conceivable, he and K really only have the following options to prevent transfers: 1) Play everyone regularly or 2) recruit fewer players. Otherwise, if you have kids who are talented enough to get regular playing time somewhere, but not at Duke, after a couple of seasons of frustration, it's natural to look into other options.

Perhaps you could take a step back, realize that your initial statement went way too far, and then everyone can move on.

[MADevil30]

And I agree with all three of your points and am not advocating a position which would implicate any of them. Your points are about the player and this specific decision; my points are about the perceived trend of regular transfers and the need for someone with a perspective other than managing the day to operations of the basketball team to address the problem of those perceptions, which I have suggested have implications beyond the basketball team.

I think part of the problem here, speaking for myself, is that while you have made it clear that you think the transfers are indicative of a larger "problem," I have no idea what the problem that you are talking about is. Perhaps if you explained that better, we could all see eye to eye.

[Kedsy]

The problem I suggest would he negative fallout from what is perceived as a frequent stream of transfers.

Perceived by whom? Outside the Duke community (and the schools to which these guys have transferred), do you think anybody really noticed any of the transfers besides Elliot? I don't. I think the "perception" is only ours, and thus I don't think there will be any negative fallout.

[Wildcat]

factors). This is undesirable, and because our basketball team has such a high profile, can have implications outside of the basketball program. As I suggested before, Kevin White can serve in his role as the leader of the athletic department and university to assess the concerns in this broader context and, help in the process of shining light on how to manage things better. It's fine if other's think I am wrong, but would be more interesting if they said why.[/QUOTE]

We are a "high-profile" program who in recent years have taken some lumps from: recruiting misses to program in decline, to being deemed alarmingly unathletic to transfers, and other myths about playing at Duke. It should concern us. Honestly, if Olek didn't have talent: trust me, you or I wouldn't be up past 11:00 posting about it.

I think it is certainly appropriate for the AD to question, probe, investigate, research, affirm, support or do whatever he deems necessary to protect and preserve the rich tradition of any Duke sports teams. To insinuate that K is above guidance/dialogue and counsel is myopic and flat out dictatorial. We should care how our school is being portrayed in the media. I don't think the sky is falling, but it would be nice to hear some good news surrounding the program for a change.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I'm going to bed. i have a long drive tomorrow. See y'all at MSG on Saturday.

[Sixthman]

Your point that there is more to Duke and Duke basketball than playing time is valid, but you have to realize how much basketball consumes these guys lives. I can't imagine what it would be like to watch your last chance to play pass you by because you sat on the bench. This is not a problem with Duke, certainly not Coach K; it is a player wanting to make the most of his last chance.


It is possible to have a problem that is not the product of a failure by management, or in this case, coaches. It is possible for these transfers to be a problem, even were every transfer to involve players who were of little impact or potential for impact at Duke, and even where every player choosing to transfer was making a reasonable decision with the blessings of the coaches (I do not believe this to be the case). Perhaps it makes it harder to recruit, perhaps it fuels false claims by competing coaches that Coach K is a "Bobby Knight" figure who runs off players, perhaps it creates the impression that players do not assimilate with the larger university community, perhaps it makes it easier for the Carolina guy in the office next to you and me to run down Duke and momentarily suck the life out of thousands of Duke fans just like us. At what cost to humanity I ask you? At what cost?

[Kedsy]

I don't think the sky is falling, but it would be nice to hear some good news surrounding the program for a change.

There's plenty of good news surrounding Duke basketball. I'm not saying it's you, but some people only have ears for the negative stuff. And then they overreact.

[Hermy-own]

I can think of two problems with a large number of transfer students, perceived or real:
Firstly, it does tarnish the reputation of Duke's athletic department and basketball team. I can imagine outsiders seizing on the transfers as proof that Duke athletics is not a good place to be, for whatever reason. If Duke truly does have more transfers than other schools, that is bad because it implies that people aren't having fun in our program. Winning more in March may actually help with this as well - I bet it's hard to be a program that wins so many games, has such high expectations, garners so much hatred, and then underperforms in March. That is a lot of pressure.

Secondly, it damages recruitment. Recruits may look at the transfers as proof that the Duke coaches exaggerate chances for playing time. They will also infer that playing for Duke is not fun.

I know that Duke basketball is a great program, and while I am disappointed with every transfer, I agree that they don't hurt us much. But the points above are enough reason that everyone should care when a recruit leaves. Plus, I will miss Poland Springs, he was a crowd favorite (you got Czyzed on).

[JaMarcus Russell]

It is possible for these transfers to be a problem, even were every transfer to involve players who were of little impact or potential for impact at Duke, and even where every player choosing to transfer was making a reasonable decision with the blessings of the coaches (I do not believe this to be the case).

Looking at every single transfer this decade, which ones do you think were unreasonable or made without the blessing of the coaches?

[Kedsy]

If Duke truly does have more transfers than other schools, that is bad because it implies that people aren't having fun in our program.

Have you read Jumbo's post on this subject (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=131108&postcount=45)? Duke truly doesn't have more transfers than other major programs.

[xblade]

We are a "high-profile" program who in recent years have taken some lumps from: recruiting misses to program in decline, to being deemed alarmingly unathletic to transfers, and other myths about playing at Duke. It should concern us.


Why should something we have zero control over concern us? As you have pointed out, these are myths about Duke. Who do you suppose creates and spreads these myths? People we have zero control over, that's who.

Be concerned with it if you want, but there's nothing you can do about it. These creators of myth are going to say and do whatever it takes to make Duke look bad, whether Olek transfers or not. You think those who create these myths would say something nice about Duke if these guys hadn't transferred, lol? Uh, no, they would just make up something else to whisper in a recruit's ear to get him to choose their school.

By the way, didn't Calipari just run off half the Kentucky team? Didn't seem to hurt his recruiting very much. I don't think recruits are quite as naive as some of you here seem to think they are. They know how the game is played.

[BlueintheFace]

I tried to update Jumbo's post on transfers as best as I could tonight. I might have missed a player here and there or made a mistake. If you spot something feel free to let me know.

Duke
Transfers: 6 (Michael Thompson, Eric Boateng, Jamal Boykin, Taylor King, Elliot Williams, Olek Czyz)
Non-Arrivals: 2 (Shaun Livingston, Kris Humphries)

North Carolina
Transfers: 4 (Adam Boone, Brian Morrison, Neil Fingleton, Alex Stepheson)
Non-Arrivals: 2 (J.R. Smith, JamesOn Curry)

UCLA
Transfers: 6 (Nican Robinson, Andre Patterson, Ryan Walcott, Ryan Wright, Chase Stanback, Drew Gordon)
Non-Arrivals: 0

Kansas
Transfers: 9 (David Padgett, Nick Bahe, Alex Galindo, J.R. Giddens, Micah Downs, C.J. Giles, Omar Wilkes, Quintrell Thomas)
Non-Arrivals: 0

Kentucky
Transfers: 11 (Jason Parker, Rashaad Carruth, Marvin Stone, Bernard Cote, Shagari Alleyne, Rekalin Sims, Adam Williams, Alex Legion, Derrick Jasper, Mark Coury, AJ Stewart)
Non-Arrivals: 0

UConn
Transfers: 9 (Scott Hazelton, Marcus White, Antonio Kellogg, Ben Eaves, Rob Garrison, Marcus Johnson, Doug Wiggins, Curtis Kelly, Scottie Harralson)
Non-Arrivals: 1 (Andrew Bynum)

Syracuse
Transfers: 10 (DeShaun Williams, James Thues, Billy Edelin*, Louie McCroskey, Mike Jones, Josh Wright, Sean Williams, Mark Konecny, Xzavier Gaines, Tony Bland)
Non-Arrivals: 0

Texas
Transfers: 3 (Dion Dowell, Mike Williams, Edgar Moreno)
Non-Arrivals: 1 (C.J. Miles)

Florida
Transfers: 11 (JJames White, Orien Greene, Mario Boggan, Chris Capko, Mohamed Abukar, Ryan Appleby, David Huertas, Brandon Powell, Jonathan Mitchell, Jai Lucas, Alex Tyus
Non-Arrivals: 0

Arizona
Transfers 9 (Will Bynum, Dennis Latimore, Tyler Tiederman, Beau Muhlbach, Jesus Verdejo, J.P. Prince, Laval Lucas-Perry, Zane Johnson, Jeff Whithey)
Non-Arrivals: 1 (Ndudi Ebi, Brandon Jennings)

Michigan State
Transfers 3 (Brandon Cotton, Justin Ockerman, Maurice Joseph)
Non-Arrivals 0

[SoCalDukeFan]

I would rather that he stays, and maybe the rumors are false.

But if a player wants to go to college and play basketball and he is not going to play much for Duke, then he can transfer.

For most of us the idea of going to Duke and being on the team would be dream come true. Kind of hard to imagine giving it up.

Will be interesting to see where he goes.

What would concern me is something like Drew Gordon who was starting at UCLA and is transferring.

SoCal

[SCMatt33]

How do the deadlines for transferring work? I know that players who were suspended or sitting out the first semester are playing now. I know that the Gardner-Webb game came around the transition between first and second semester as far as the NCAA is concerned.

On another note, if it is true, i think that it is a good move for Olek. I watched the couple minutes he got this week and thought that he looked lost on defense and couldn't get a feel for the game on offense and actually wondered if it was too late for him to transfer. I really see his PT ceiling here as 5-10 first half minutes a game, even if he improves steadily through his senior year.

[juise]

As others have said, it seems wise to refrain from extensive comment about Olek (especially pertaining to his value) until we have confirmation from a better source. Right now, he's still part of the family and should be spoken of in an encouraging manner, imo.

[stickdog]

What I see is that Coach K is, deservedly, a Coaching and Duke Icon. However, everyone (from the President to my 3rd grader) needs to work within a framework of accountability of some sort, something that Coach K, with his military background, can surely appreciate. Some things, a person with the accomplishments of Coach K has earned a pass on. No one need hold him accountable for wins and losses, on-court strategy, or allocation of playing time. In other areas, there are larger issues, and I am concerned that program transfers is such an area. If accountability is appropriate, Kevin White, Coach K's boss, is the person to do this (and certainly not me, or anyone else on this board). Indeed, if Kevin White is not in a position to hold Coach K accountable on appropriate issues, he is the wrong man for his job. I believe program transfers are such an issue because they have the potential to tarnish the University and other athletic programs. Kevin White would insert himself because doing so is part of his job. Duke does and should hold itself to its own unique and high standards. The possibility that other programs experience similar incidence of transfers is not an comfortable excuse. A regular pattern of transfers infers that players do not value the larger Duke experience, something Coach K has always emphasized, or the Duke basketball family.

LOL. K isn't chasing these players off. These players are constantly being recruited by other programs. And they are constantly being advised by adults (often adult relations) that they would be better off playing somewhere else.

Duke basketball has a culture of smart play on defense. It is unacceptable for a Duke player to be lost on defense. This has been the case at Duke since Coach K arrived. Did you happen to notice Czyz's defensive effort in the GW game?

IMHO, Czyz has improved a ton over the last year. He was completely lost on defense last season and much less lost on defense this season. I could easily see him earning significant minutes at Duke next season and his senior year, so I am very sorry to see him go.

But if he wants to go somewhere where he will be guaranteed big minutes as soon as he is again eligible, how can you begrudge him that? And how can you begrudge Duke's basketball program in any way if its current 10th best player simply wants to be a bigger fish is a smaller pond?

[stickdog]

I think it is certainly appropriate for the AD to question, probe, investigate, research, affirm, support or do whatever he deems necessary to protect and preserve the rich tradition of any Duke sports teams. To insinuate that K is above guidance/dialogue and counsel is myopic and flat out dictatorial. We should care how our school is being portrayed in the media. I don't think the sky is falling, but it would be nice to hear some good news surrounding the program for a change.

Will someone in security please eject this rowdy Presbyterian fan?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Based on the well-established fact that Coach K doesn't promise much during recruiting (even to the very top recruits), I'm guessing that Olek knew before arriving in Durham that playing time was far from guaranteed - I highly doubt Coach K promised him anything. He was probably OK with that at the time, but once reality set in, it was a different story, and he wants to go somewhere where he can play more.

Does anyone have any fact-based insights as to where he might be heading next? Best of luck to Olek in the future.

[rotogod00]

he wants to play. he's not playing (and with the bigs on the team, he may mot be in the forseeable future).

isn't it that simple?

[dukestheheat]

I tried to update Jumbo's post on transfers as best as I could tonight. I might have missed a player here and there or made a mistake. If you spot something feel free to let me know.

Duke
Transfers: 6 (Michael Thompson, Eric Boateng, Jamal Boykin, Taylor King, Elliot Williams, Olek Czyz)
Non-Arrivals: 2 (Shaun Livingston, Kris Humphries)

North Carolina
Transfers: 4 (Adam Boone, Brian Morrison, Neil Fingleton, Alex Stepheson)
Non-Arrivals: 2 (J.R. Smith, JamesOn Curry)

UCLA
Transfers: 6 (Nican Robinson, Andre Patterson, Ryan Walcott, Ryan Wright, Chase Stanback, Drew Gordon)
Non-Arrivals: 0

Kansas
Transfers: 9 (David Padgett, Nick Bahe, Alex Galindo, J.R. Giddens, Micah Downs, C.J. Giles, Omar Wilkes, Quintrell Thomas)
Non-Arrivals: 0

Kentucky
Transfers: 11 (Jason Parker, Rashaad Carruth, Marvin Stone, Bernard Cote, Shagari Alleyne, Rekalin Sims, Adam Williams, Alex Legion, Derrick Jasper, Mark Coury, AJ Stewart)
Non-Arrivals: 0

UConn
Transfers: 9 (Scott Hazelton, Marcus White, Antonio Kellogg, Ben Eaves, Rob Garrison, Marcus Johnson, Doug Wiggins, Curtis Kelly, Scottie Harralson)
Non-Arrivals: 1 (Andrew Bynum)

Syracuse
Transfers: 10 (DeShaun Williams, James Thues, Billy Edelin*, Louie McCroskey, Mike Jones, Josh Wright, Sean Williams, Mark Konecny, Xzavier Gaines, Tony Bland)
Non-Arrivals: 0

Texas
Transfers: 3 (Dion Dowell, Mike Williams, Edgar Moreno)
Non-Arrivals: 1 (C.J. Miles)

Florida
Transfers: 11 (JJames White, Orien Greene, Mario Boggan, Chris Capko, Mohamed Abukar, Ryan Appleby, David Huertas, Brandon Powell, Jonathan Mitchell, Jai Lucas, Alex Tyus
Non-Arrivals: 0

Arizona
Transfers 9 (Will Bynum, Dennis Latimore, Tyler Tiederman, Beau Muhlbach, Jesus Verdejo, J.P. Prince, Laval Lucas-Perry, Zane Johnson, Jeff Whithey)
Non-Arrivals: 1 (Ndudi Ebi, Brandon Jennings)

Michigan State
Transfers 3 (Brandon Cotton, Justin Ockerman, Maurice Joseph)
Non-Arrivals 0

...and thank you for taking the time to pull all this data together. K doesn't promise incoming recruits any playing time, at least the story goes, and probably Olek just saw that he didn't have the package, top-to-bottom, to compete with who we've got right now. There is nothing wrong with this! I can't blame Olek for wanting playing time and this is a great time to say thanks for all he's brought to the program, and to Duke, while he was here.

Transferring is a part of this game, just like 'flopping', and 'jawing' on the floor.

dth.

[bluebear]

I second the thanks to both Jumbo and BitheFace for posting rational data..but this is one of the funniest threads I have read here in some time. Best of luck to Olek..hope he finds a better match..

[Devilsfan]

Wish him the best. In consolation, at least we have another scholarship to give.

[Wildcat]

how you analyze a persons ceiling/game based upon two minutes of playing time? This is unfair and it seemingly speaks to other issues. The guy has never been given a fair shake in my opinion. What player doesn't get beat? Last time I checked Scheyer gets beat against quicker guards at times, Singler, and heck everyone else for that matter, it happens. Uh, that is what coaches are for.?

The games I saw him in, he looked good. Hitting three pointers, driving to the basket, dunking and a high-energy guy who if given the chance probably wouldn't avoid banging a little in the paint. Question, are you saying he isn't good enough to play for us, but he was recruited heavily by the other power schools: Florida (Billy Donovan, 2 NCAA Titiles) Kentucky (Perennial power) Louisville (Rick Pitino) and ranked 28th in his class, but yet K didn't promise him any time? If the guy was a bad as some posters on here make him to be, K or any of the other power coaches wouldn't have recruited him from the start.

Cmon people, this is not good. You guys/gals on here a waaaaaay to smart. I can tell that, I read your posts.

[Billy Dat]

Whenever we bring in a kid that is not one of the elite national recruits, I automatically think, "This kid knows the score, is being brought in as a bench guy, and likely wants a great education, the advantages of the Duke Hoops alumni network, etc." That's exactly what I thought when we offered Olek. I guess, as others have said, he's not satisfied with that. Good for him, he wants to play, he'll go somewhere and play a lot.

As for this hurting recruiting, no way. The best kids have huge egos about their talent, as in, "I am the man and no one is taking my spot". They'd never dream that they couldn't crack a rotation, or a starting line-up, so the idea that they wouldn't look at Duke because they were afraid of not getting PT is, to me, a non issue.

[roywhite]

how you analyze a persons ceiling/game based upon two minutes of playing time? This is unfair and it seemingly speaks to other issues. The guy has never been given a fair shake in my opinion. What player doesn't get beat? Last time I checked Scheyer gets beat against quicker guards at times, Singler, and heck everyone else for that matter, it happens. Uh, that is what coaches are for.?

The games I saw him in, he looked good. Hitting three pointers, driving to the basket, dunking and a high-energy guy who if given the chance probably wouldn't avoid banging a little in the paint. Question, are you saying he isn't good enough to play for us, but he was recruited heavily by the other power schools: Florida (Billy Donovan, 2 NCAA Titiles) Kentucky (Perennial power) Louisville (Rick Pitino) and ranked 28th in his class, but yet K didn't promise him any time? If the guy was a bad as some posters on here make him to be, K or any of the other power coaches wouldn't have recruited him from the start.

Cmon people, this is not good. You guys/gals on here a waaaaaay to smart. I can tell that, I read your posts.

Yes. He was not good enough to earn more playing time.

Please remember that Coach K and the rest of the staff do this for a living and want the best team on the floor. They hold practices and work with the players on a daily basis.

Olek may have eventually earned more playing time, and he could have proved his worth through development and imrpovement in practice and then playing well when inserted into a game. But he chose to go elsewhere and we wish him well.

There are guys at the end of the bench or end of the playing rotation in nearly every big-time college program. They just are not as good as the players in front of them. They may choose to stay in hopes of getting some playing time or they may choose to stay because they like the school. But increasingly (as noted in posts on this thread) many of the guys not getting playing time choose to go elsewhere.

[A-Tex Devil]

I second Jumbo's post. It could be worse. A lot worse. With the exception of Eliot Williams, who in my mind should have a big asterix with respect to his transfer due to the exigent circumstances, every player we have lost has been a minor contributor - at best.

That tells me the people that are getting minutes are happy. Florida, Georgetown, Kansas and others have all had players with significant minutes transfer unexpectedly. I can understand every one of Duke's transfers and chalk it up to playing time in every case. None -- except perhaps Taylor King, who was just impatient -- did anything outside of Duke that would suggest they were going to have an impact that would have taken us further in the tourney. At least we aren't losing starters and significant role players like some of the other schools on Jumbo's very telling report (as updated by BITF).

[jgehtland]

and ranked 28th in his class, but yet K didn't promise him any time?

He wasn't ranked 28th in his class. He was ranked 29th *at his position* in his class. This put him outside the top 100. He was always viewed as a project.

And, no, K never promises time. To anybody. See Humphries, Kris.

[Wildcat]

Why would Jay Wright of Villinova want an impatient TK on his team? Why would Pitino want Olek? Why would've Gillespie wanted Olek; they recruited him hard, as well as many other top schools? This argument doesn't make sense to me? If he's that bad; why was he ranked so high in the class of 08?

My point is: we are loosing players to TOP teams, with TOP coaches. Do those coaches see something we don't? Or are these transfers better suited for their style of play? I'm finished and I wish Olek well. Go Duke. Let's beat the Zags!

[altitech]

Olek Czyz to Leave Duke
12/18/2009 - Duke Sports Information

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204859699

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Why would Jay Wright of Villinova want an impatient TK on his team? Why would Pitino want Olek? Why would've Gillespie wanted Olek; they recruited him hard, as well as many other top schools? This argument doesn't make sense to me? If he's that bad; why was he ranked so high in the class of 08?

My point is: we are loosing players to TOP teams, with TOP coaches. Do those coaches see something we don't? Or are these transfers better suited for their style of play? I'm finished and I wish Olek well. Go Duke. Let's beat the Zags!


I think there is a big difference between TK and Olek. TK is a lot more polished offensively and was one of the top recruits coming out of high school who just needed to get in better shape. I don't expect Olek to transfer to a top program. This is purely a guess, but I could see him going back out west to Nevada to play with his pal Babbit or UNLV maybe. He won't go to a top program because he would ultimately accomplish nothing by wasting a year of eligibility and then clawing to get PT.

[allenmurray]

I tried to update Jumbo's post on transfers as best as I could tonight. I might have missed a player here and there or made a mistake. If you spot something feel free to let me know.

Duke
Transfers: 6 (Michael Thompson, Eric Boateng, Jamal Boykin, Taylor King, Elliot Williams, Olek Czyz)
Non-Arrivals: 2 (Shaun Livingston, Kris Humphries)

North Carolina
Transfers: 4 (Adam Boone, Brian Morrison, Neil Fingleton, Alex Stepheson)
Non-Arrivals: 2 (J.R. Smith, JamesOn Curry)

UCLA
Transfers: 6 (Nican Robinson, Andre Patterson, Ryan Walcott, Ryan Wright, Chase Stanback, Drew Gordon)
Non-Arrivals: 0

Kansas
Transfers: 9 (David Padgett, Nick Bahe, Alex Galindo, J.R. Giddens, Micah Downs, C.J. Giles, Omar Wilkes, Quintrell Thomas)
Non-Arrivals: 0

Kentucky
Transfers: 11 (Jason Parker, Rashaad Carruth, Marvin Stone, Bernard Cote, Shagari Alleyne, Rekalin Sims, Adam Williams, Alex Legion, Derrick Jasper, Mark Coury, AJ Stewart)
Non-Arrivals: 0

UConn
Transfers: 9 (Scott Hazelton, Marcus White, Antonio Kellogg, Ben Eaves, Rob Garrison, Marcus Johnson, Doug Wiggins, Curtis Kelly, Scottie Harralson)
Non-Arrivals: 1 (Andrew Bynum)

Syracuse
Transfers: 10 (DeShaun Williams, James Thues, Billy Edelin*, Louie McCroskey, Mike Jones, Josh Wright, Sean Williams, Mark Konecny, Xzavier Gaines, Tony Bland)
Non-Arrivals: 0

Texas
Transfers: 3 (Dion Dowell, Mike Williams, Edgar Moreno)
Non-Arrivals: 1 (C.J. Miles)

Florida
Transfers: 11 (JJames White, Orien Greene, Mario Boggan, Chris Capko, Mohamed Abukar, Ryan Appleby, David Huertas, Brandon Powell, Jonathan Mitchell, Jai Lucas, Alex Tyus
Non-Arrivals: 0

Arizona
Transfers 9 (Will Bynum, Dennis Latimore, Tyler Tiederman, Beau Muhlbach, Jesus Verdejo, J.P. Prince, Laval Lucas-Perry, Zane Johnson, Jeff Whithey)
Non-Arrivals: 1 (Ndudi Ebi, Brandon Jennings)

Michigan State
Transfers 3 (Brandon Cotton, Justin Ockerman, Maurice Joseph)
Non-Arrivals 0

A problem with this list is that it doesn't take into account how many of those transfers/non-arrivals were due to a coaching change. Thus it is comparing apples to oranges. When a recruit de-commits or a player transfers in light of the resignation/firing of a head coach that is a vastly different scenario than when a player transfers/de-commits from a program that has had coaching stability for over 20 years.

[Troublemaker]

A problem with this list is that it doesn't take into account how many of those transfers/non-arrivals were due to a coaching change. Thus it is comparing apples to oranges. When a recruit de-commits or a player transfers in light of the resignation/firing of a head coach that is a vastly different scenario than when a player transfers/de-commits from a program that has had coaching stability for over 20 years.

UConn, Syracuse, and Florida are on that list...

[airowe]

Why would Jay Wright of Villinova want an impatient TK on his team? Why would Pitino want Olek? Why would've Gillespie wanted Olek; they recruited him hard, as well as many other top schools? This argument doesn't make sense to me? If he's that bad; why was he ranked so high in the class of 08?

He wasn't ranked high. He was rated the 29th best PF in his class and every scout said he had a ton of work to do. He blew up at Pangos, blew up at the Cactus City Classic, and coaches got stars in their eyes because of Olek's ability to throw down nasty dunk shots. A lot of coaches who originally showed interest backed off when they gave Olek a little more time. Unfortunately, Duke wasn't in the position to do so after the unexpected departures of Shav, McRoberts, Boateng, and Boykin and not getting the development out of Zoubek as early as they would have liked, and missing on Echenique, Drew Gordon, Patrick Patterson, etc.

Olek Czyz was brought on as a project and was told that the staff believed he had a lot of promise. I'm sure they still do. He obviously felt as though he could have made a more immediate impact, but between injuries and his play on the defensive end, he just never really had a chance to make an impact at Duke for quite some time. It's very possible he saw the incoming Josh Hairston, the development of the Plumlees, and the fact that the staff was actively recruiting 3 SF/PFs in his class as signs that his time would come later rather than sooner. His expectations were high, and the chance for those expectations to become reality became less and less likely.

Things change, people change.

[GGLC]

It also doesn't take into account kids who transferred for academic/disciplinary reasons.


UConn, Syracuse, and Florida are on that list...

Cool. So now there are three other programs in the bucket, rather than a raft of them. And if we confined the focus to the last, say, five years, then the numbers would be even more different.

(Scott Hazelton? James Freakin' White?)

[JG Nothing]

I tried to update Jumbo's post on transfers as best as I could tonight. I might have missed a player here and there or made a mistake. If you spot something feel free to let me know.

Duke
Transfers: 6 (Michael Thompson, Eric Boateng, Jamal Boykin, Taylor King, Elliot Williams, Olek Czyz)
Non-Arrivals: 2 (Shaun Livingston, Kris Humphries)

North Carolina
Transfers: 4 (Adam Boone, Brian Morrison, Neil Fingleton, Alex Stepheson)
Non-Arrivals: 2 (J.R. Smith, JamesOn Curry)

UCLA
Transfers: 6 (Nican Robinson, Andre Patterson, Ryan Walcott, Ryan Wright, Chase Stanback, Drew Gordon)
Non-Arrivals: 0

Kansas
Transfers: 9 (David Padgett, Nick Bahe, Alex Galindo, J.R. Giddens, Micah Downs, C.J. Giles, Omar Wilkes, Quintrell Thomas)
Non-Arrivals: 0

Kentucky
Transfers: 11 (Jason Parker, Rashaad Carruth, Marvin Stone, Bernard Cote, Shagari Alleyne, Rekalin Sims, Adam Williams, Alex Legion, Derrick Jasper, Mark Coury, AJ Stewart)
Non-Arrivals: 0

UConn
Transfers: 9 (Scott Hazelton, Marcus White, Antonio Kellogg, Ben Eaves, Rob Garrison, Marcus Johnson, Doug Wiggins, Curtis Kelly, Scottie Harralson)
Non-Arrivals: 1 (Andrew Bynum)

Syracuse
Transfers: 10 (DeShaun Williams, James Thues, Billy Edelin*, Louie McCroskey, Mike Jones, Josh Wright, Sean Williams, Mark Konecny, Xzavier Gaines, Tony Bland)
Non-Arrivals: 0

Texas
Transfers: 3 (Dion Dowell, Mike Williams, Edgar Moreno)
Non-Arrivals: 1 (C.J. Miles)

Florida
Transfers: 11 (JJames White, Orien Greene, Mario Boggan, Chris Capko, Mohamed Abukar, Ryan Appleby, David Huertas, Brandon Powell, Jonathan Mitchell, Jai Lucas, Alex Tyus
Non-Arrivals: 0

Arizona
Transfers 9 (Will Bynum, Dennis Latimore, Tyler Tiederman, Beau Muhlbach, Jesus Verdejo, J.P. Prince, Laval Lucas-Perry, Zane Johnson, Jeff Whithey)
Non-Arrivals: 1 (Ndudi Ebi, Brandon Jennings)

Michigan State
Transfers 3 (Brandon Cotton, Justin Ockerman, Maurice Joseph)
Non-Arrivals 0

This list is interesting, but what we can infer from the data is limited. (By the way, you need to include Andre Sweet as a Duke transfer and Kris Humphreys was a transfer for all practical purposes.)
First and foremost, we don't know the real story in all of these cases and there is no control for coaching changes. We hear a lot of sanitized public statements and never hear what really happened.
Second, some great programs (unc, Texas, and Michigan State) have had far fewer transfers than Duke. So, frequent transfers are not necessarily inevitable at top programs.
Duke's transfer rate looks about average from this list. But why do we want to be average?

[kmspeaks]

Sixthman, please try and put yourself in Olek's shoes. You are a very good basketball player, but not good enough to play professionally (at least in America, maybe anywhere). You are a sophomore in college, meaning that you have two more years to play the sport you have (hopefully) loved for much of your life, you have certainly devoted A TON of time to it. However, you are on a team that has a lot of players that are better than you; no hard feelings about it, but many of the player who join your team in the future will be too, because your team is good enough to get them. So, would you rather spend your potential last 2 years as an athlete sitting and watching others play, or would you want to put yourself in a situation where you could actually contribute?

Your point that there is more to Duke and Duke basketball than playing time is valid, but you have to realize how much basketball consumes these guys lives. I can't imagine what it would be like to watch your last chance to play pass you by because you sat on the bench. This is not a problem with Duke, certainly not Coach K; it is a player wanting to make the most of his last chance.

I was in the middle of posting something similar to this last night when my internet connection went out. I think the bolded part of MADevil's post above is the key. A large portion of NCAA athletes will not have the opportunity to play their sport professionally. When that last game is over that's it. You never really have a shot to play organized, competitive ball again.

It's not really (at least in most cases as far as we know) a matter of these transfers not enjoying the larger Duke experience or being a part of Duke basketball. It's a matter of being an 18-20 year old kid sitting on the end of the bench and realizing "I don't have much time left." And no matter how much they love Duke or how much it hurts to leave, they come to the conclusion that it would hurt more to feel like they wasted their opportunity to play college basketball sitting on a chair in warmups.

I just finished up my collegiate softball career in May. There is almost a feeling of panic when you realize it's close to being over. This could be the last time I pack this bag, my last bus ride with my teammates, my last at-bat, my last throw, etc. I don't know anyone who wants to end their career thinking this could be the last courtside chair I ever sit on.

[Troublemaker]

It also doesn't take into account kids who transferred for academic/disciplinary reasons.



Cool. So now there are three other programs in the bucket, rather than a raft of them. And if we confined the focus to the last, say, five years, then the numbers would be even more different.

(Scott Hazelton? James Freakin' White?)

There just aren't that many programs who don't experience coaching change. The ones with coaching stability apparently have as many transfers as Duke. That's the point.

[dukestheheat]

how you analyze a persons ceiling/game based upon two minutes of playing time? This is unfair and it seemingly speaks to other issues. The guy has never been given a fair shake in my opinion. What player doesn't get beat? Last time I checked Scheyer gets beat against quicker guards at times, Singler, and heck everyone else for that matter, it happens. Uh, that is what coaches are for.?

The games I saw him in, he looked good. Hitting three pointers, driving to the basket, dunking and a high-energy guy who if given the chance probably wouldn't avoid banging a little in the paint. Question, are you saying he isn't good enough to play for us, but he was recruited heavily by the other power schools: Florida (Billy Donovan, 2 NCAA Titiles) Kentucky (Perennial power) Louisville (Rick Pitino) and ranked 28th in his class, but yet K didn't promise him any time? If the guy was a bad as some posters on here make him to be, K or any of the other power coaches wouldn't have recruited him from the start.

Cmon people, this is not good. You guys/gals on here a waaaaaay to smart. I can tell that, I read your posts.

....a person's ceiling/game is based on what is known about K and his approach to getting players on the floor: you have to earn this in practice.

If you're not on the floor, you aren't getting it done, consistently, in practice. We've seen K bench senior players who, for some reason and over time, weren't getting it done in practice.

Duke is a very competitive atmosphere in general, from the classroom all the way to Cameron. It is well-known that K doesn't promise incoming players playing time and they're told that they have to earn their way to playing time. This creates no sense of entitlement and instead fosters a spirit of competition and an increasing drive to get better.

As I've said before, what we see with Olek is a situation where he sees that he's not going to be able to beat the guys in practice and by his choice, he's choosing to leave and go get more playing time. I can't blame him for this at all!

Knowing K's philosophy helps me to see that this doesn't point to any other issues, as you are stating, but rather that this is normal at Duke.

dukestheheat.

[Troublemaker]

Transfers are going to happen. That's the reality of modern big-time college basketball. You recruit a lot of good players with good egos, some of them will be better than others, and the others will transfer because they don't play as much. I feel like Duke has also handed out more scholarships recently than it has in the past, trying to avoid situations like 2005 when the team only had 8 recruited players due to early or unexpected attrition. (Heck, we only have 9 left this year after the loss of Henderson, Williams, and now Czyz). The extra 1 or 2 schollies that we hand out per recruiting year will lead to slightly more competition and a slight increase in the transfer rate.

[allenmurray]

I was in the middle of posting something similar to this last night when my internet connection went out. I think the bolded part of MADevil's post above is the key. A large portion of NCAA athletes will not have the opportunity to play their sport professionally. When that last game is over that's it. You never really have a shot to play organized, competitive ball again.

It's not really (at least in most cases as far as we know) a matter of these transfers not enjoying the larger Duke experience or being a part of Duke basketball. It's a matter of being an 18-20 year old kid sitting on the end of the bench and realizing "I don't have much time left." And no matter how much they love Duke or how much it hurts to leave, they come to the conclusion that it would hurt more to feel like they wasted their opportunity to play college basketball sitting on a chair in warmups.

I just finished up my collegiate softball career in May. There is almost a feeling of panic when you realize it's close to being over. This could be the last time I pack this bag, my last bus ride with my teammates, my last at-bat, my last throw, etc. I don't know anyone who wants to end their career thinking this could be the last courtside chair I ever sit on.

That is an excellent point. There are those who will gladly sit on the end of the bench at Duke. There are others, who may never play professionaly but who simply love to play ball - and this is their last chance. They might rather get a ton of PT at a lower-level program than sit on the bench at Duke. That is okay, and shouldn't reflect poorly on the kid.

I don't think that is the case with Czyz. Unlike some bench riders at Duke, he will play professionally in Europe. Therefore it is important for him to get some PT in college to showcase himself. If he won't get that at Duke who can blame him for leaving?

[CameronBornAndBred]

how you analyze a persons ceiling/game based upon two minutes of playing time? This is unfair and it seemingly speaks to other issues. The guy has never been given a fair shake in my opinion.
Others have commented on your post, I will too. You don't analyze anbody on two minutes of playing time, and I assure you Olek wasn't. He was analyzed every day in practice by an entire coaching staff, for two years. He was given a fair shake, in fact more than one to start this season. He started in Nolan's abscence, even earning praise from K after the first game. But the second game, in which he also started, he didn't stay in long. During his "fair shake", he didn't produce, so he went back to the pine. He is surrounded by better players, players who are better on both sides of the court. Ask Taylor King about how much playing time you can expect if you are an offensive weapon that lets the other team run past you.

[Chicago 1995]

Others have commented on your post, I will too. You don't analyze anbody on two minutes of playing time, and I assure you Olek wasn't. He was analyzed every day in practice by an entire coaching staff, for two years. He was given a fair shake, in fact more than one to start this season. He started in Nolan's abscence, even earning praise from K after the first game. But the second game, in which he also started, he didn't stay in long. During his "fair shake", he didn't produce, so he went back to the pine. He is surrounded by better players, players who are better on both sides of the court. Ask Taylor King about how much playing time you can expect if you are an offensive weapon that lets the other team run past you.


I suspect Taylor still doesn't know because he had at least one teammate who also couldn't guard a tree, but got plenty of minutes. We may not like to admit that, but the appearance of a double standard plays a role in transfers like this, and like others the program has suffered.

And it hurts our recruiting too.

[roywhite]

I suspect Taylor still doesn't know because he had at least one teammate who also couldn't guard a tree, but got plenty of minutes. We may not like to admit that, but the appearance of a double standard plays a role in transfers like this, and like others the program has suffered.

And it hurts our recruiting too.

I don't know what your point is here.

Please claify and be specific.

[DukeDevilDeb]

Not even remotely.

If you are saying that rigorous academics is not ever in the picture of transfers or early leaves for the NBA, I would beg to differ. Going back to 1999, Avery was the first of the academic disasters. He basically didn't go to class second semester. Jamal was an excellent student, but Olek is an example of someone who took classwork much less seriously than he should have.

I am always delighted when some players (Scheyer and Henderson come to mind) who are really good are also really good and hard working in class. I am always distressed when the non-stars decide that academics are below them.

I am NOT saying that people are transferring because of academics. But I do think the academic rigor is one factor in some of these decisions.

I am happy to be corrected if you think I'm wrong, but I've had most of these guys in class.

Go Duke!

[Chicago 1995]

I don't know what your point is here.

Please claify and be specific.

My point, I think, was pretty clear.

(1) The original poster is absolutely correct that King's PT was limited because he was a defensive liability.

(2) While King's PT suffered because of his defensive shortcomings, he would not be able to give a clear answer to the original posters posed question about how many minutes a player who lets the other team run past him would get under K because while that problem limited King's minutes, it did not limit the minutes of at least one of his teammates.

(3) That perception of a double standard and favortism, whether we want to deny it or not, is why these transfers are problematic to us. The idea of a double standard is being used against K in recruiting, and when you have former players out there supporting the negative recruiting with anecdotes, it makes it a particularly pointed attack.

[JaMarcus Russell]

I suspect Taylor still doesn't know because he had at least one teammate who also couldn't guard a tree, but got plenty of minutes. We may not like to admit that, but the appearance of a double standard plays a role in transfers like this, and like others the program has suffered.

And it hurts our recruiting too.

I have absolutely no idea which player you are referring to.

Also, I am pretty sure that Olek had > 3.0 as a freshman. That's pretty good in my opinion.

The ACC announced the annual conference Honor Roll selections for 2008-09 this week and half our squad from a year ago made the list. Olek Czyz, Jordan Davidson, Steve Johnson, Greg Paulus, Jon Scheyer, Kyle Singler and Brian Zoubek joined 411 fellow Duke athletes on the Honor Roll as Duke Athletics led all ACC schools for the 21st time in 22 years in total selections.

A varsity student-athlete must earn a GPA of 3.0 or better for the full year to make the Honor Roll. Congrats to all 418 Blue Devils on the list and a special shout-out to OC, Jordan, Steve, GP, Jon, Kyle, Zoubs and our Student Life/Campus Relations Coordinator, Kenny King.

ACC Academic Honor Roll Selections – Men’s Basketball… Duke: 7, Miami: 5, GA Tech: 4, UNC: 4, Clemson: 3, UVA: 3, Wake Forest: 3, VA Tech: 2, FSU: 1, Maryland: 1, NC State: 1, Boston College: 0

At the bottom of the page for this link: http://blog.dukeblueplanet.com/category/on-campus/

[dukestheheat]

I suspect Taylor still doesn't know because he had at least one teammate who also couldn't guard a tree, but got plenty of minutes. We may not like to admit that, but the appearance of a double standard plays a role in transfers like this, and like others the program has suffered.

And it hurts our recruiting too.

....if it's hurt our recruiting and if our program has suffered, then we've been hurt and have suffered equal to what has happened at other programs, so in total there should be no impact to Duke or other programs that's really measurable. Now, if Kyle Singler (an established starter and All-Star) chose to transfer after his sophomore year, then yes, we'd have an 'issue' or a 'problem', but what we're seeing is a normal part of the college game!

dth.

[Jeffrey]

IMO, he's making a wise decision. I wish him the best!

[Kedsy]

Question, are you saying he isn't good enough to play for us, but he was recruited heavily by the other power schools: Florida (Billy Donovan, 2 NCAA Titiles) Kentucky (Perennial power) Louisville (Rick Pitino) and ranked 28th in his class, but yet K didn't promise him any time? If the guy was a bad as some posters on here make him to be, K or any of the other power coaches wouldn't have recruited him from the start.

Personally, I've always liked Olek and was expecting him to be a contributer his junior and senior seasons. But I'm sure K never promised him minutes.

He was not ranked 28th in his class, by the way. According to RSCI, the major publications had him 44, 58, 64, ,65, 87, 92, and unranked, for an aggregate ranking of 66.

With a ranking like that, it would be unusual for a big man to contribute his freshman year at a high major program, and probably not common even in his sophomore year. On the other hand Olek was rated higher than Miles out of high school, and Miles seems to have earned his minutes. Olek has obvious athleticism and started the first two games of the year. It seems to me if he'd earned his minutes in practice he would have been out there. Not sure anyone can honestly say he hasn't been given a chance.

[91_92_01_10_15]

My point, I think, was pretty clear.

(1) The original poster is absolutely correct that King's PT was limited because he was a defensive liability.

(2) While King's PT suffered because of his defensive shortcomings, he would not be able to give a clear answer to the original posters posed question about how many minutes a player who lets the other team run past him would get under K because while that problem limited King's minutes, it did not limit the minutes of at least one of his teammates.

(3) That perception of a double standard and favortism, whether we want to deny it or not, is why these transfers are problematic to us. The idea of a double standard is being used against K in recruiting, and when you have former players out there supporting the negative recruiting with anecdotes, it makes it a particularly pointed attack.

Who is the teammate to whom you refer?

Can you clarify what you mean by double standard and why the teammate in question was allegedly favored over King?

[weezie]

I suspect Taylor still doesn't know because he had at least one teammate who also couldn't guard a tree, but got plenty of minutes. We may not like to admit that, but the appearance of a double standard plays a role in transfers like this, and like others the program has suffered.

And it hurts our recruiting too.

While your tree reference makes me laugh in agreement, I disagree on recruiting taking a hit. Duke is trying to become leaner and meaner and while it's sad to see Olek pulling up stakes, once again, it was his decision. Negative anecdotes reflect pretty poorly on the yapper, too.

[Kedsy]

This list is interesting, but what we can infer from the data is limited. (By the way, you need to include Andre Sweet as a Duke transfer and Kris Humphreys was a transfer for all practical purposes.)
First and foremost, we don't know the real story in all of these cases and there is no control for coaching changes. We hear a lot of sanitized public statements and never hear what really happened.
Second, some great programs (unc, Texas, and Michigan State) have had far fewer transfers than Duke. So, frequent transfers are not necessarily inevitable at top programs.
Duke's transfer rate looks about average from this list. But why do we want to be average?

UNC had 4 transfers in the period, while Duke had 6; I wouldn't call that "far fewer" (frankly I wouldn't call 3 "far fewer" than 6, either, in this context). The fact that UNC had 4 (and Mich St and Texas had 3) does suggest that transfers are inevitable at top programs, leaving us to quibble about what constitutes "frequent," which I don't think is a worthwhile debate.

Duke has the fourth fewest number on this list of 11 schools. Our number is also more than 20% below the mean for these 11 schools. I wouldn't call that average, although to say "why do we want to be average?" about something like this seems (to me, at least) to miss the point a little.

I think Andre Sweet transferred before the beginning of the time period used here, but I'm not sure about that. Humphries was correctly put in the "non-arrivals" column and in no way (practical or otherwise) was a transfer.

[BD80]

Best of luck Olek.

I think it is important that he is leaving in good academic standing, even though it will still count against our graduation rate.

As for this "trend" having a negative impact, consider:

TWO of the six recruits left because of family health issues (Boykins and Williams) and should thus be excluded from the "trend."

Two of the six transferees were undeveloped big men (Thompson and Boateng) and a third was an extremely raw forward (Czyz). These are recruiting risks or flyers. They did not develop as they or the staff had hoped, saw that they were not going to earn significant playing time and moved to big time programs (Minn, ASU, ?). This is a function of players leaving early, forcing teams to look for diamonds in the rough.

Taylor King is his own story. He was grossly over-rated due to his success as a freshman and sophmore in high school. He didn't grow after that and other players caught up and passed him. Unfortunately, for whatever reason (maybe his ego had been checking his recruiting rankings) Tyler did not apply himself as fully as he could and did not play as much at Duke as he anticipated. FWIW, shouldn't TK also be listed under UCLA as did not attend?

There has been no suggestion that any of the players were treated unfairly or were misled during recruitment.

I would suggest that the transfers don't hurt Duke's recruiting, but enhance Coach K's "sales pitch". Coach K has fully supported these guys, and each landed on his feet in a very good program. It shows the players that they have options even if things don't work out the way everyone hopes.

[JG Nothing]

UNC had 4 transfers in the period, while Duke had 6; I wouldn't call that "far fewer" (frankly I wouldn't call 3 "far fewer" than 6, either, in this context). The fact that UNC had 4 (and Mich St and Texas had 3) does suggest that transfers are inevitable at top programs, leaving us to quibble about what constitutes "frequent," which I don't think is a worthwhile debate.

Duke has the fourth fewest number on this list of 11 schools. Our number is also more than 20% below the mean for these 11 schools. I wouldn't call that average, although to say "why do we want to be average?" about something like this seems (to me, at least) to miss the point a little.

I think Andre Sweet transferred before the beginning of the time period used here, but I'm not sure about that. Humphries was correctly put in the "non-arrivals" column and in no way (practical or otherwise) was a transfer.

Sweet transferred in 2001 (just like Fingerton). Humphries had to ask for a release from Duke. Spin it how you want, but that is in effect a transfer.

[SMO]

Why would Jay Wright of Villinova want an impatient TK on his team? Why would Pitino want Olek? Why would've Gillespie wanted Olek; they recruited him hard, as well as many other top schools? This argument doesn't make sense to me? If he's that bad; why was he ranked so high in the class of 08?

My point is: we are loosing players to TOP teams, with TOP coaches. Do those coaches see something we don't? Or are these transfers better suited for their style of play? I'm finished and I wish Olek well. Go Duke. Let's beat the Zags!

I think people are missing a key point. Different teams have different needs and styles of play. Teams develop different needs depending on how recruiting shakes out. You can only play 5 guys at a time and you need guys at every position. The math and logic on this is really simple.

[Chicago 1995]

While your tree reference makes me laugh in agreement, I disagree on recruiting taking a hit. Duke is trying to become leaner and meaner and while it's sad to see Olek pulling up stakes, once again, it was his decision. Negative anecdotes reflect pretty poorly on the yapper, too.


Realistically, the mistake was made when Olek commited. Maybe we didn't do our due dilligence. Maybe we did and we were wrong. Maybe it seemed like a better fit at the time than it was.

Olek looked, by and large, lost on the court, and wasn't earning minutes. It makes sense.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

Has this been confirmed yet?

[Chicago 1995]

Who is the teammate to whom you refer?

Can you clarify what you mean by double standard and why the teammate in question was allegedly favored over King?

I think its hard to argue there wasn't a double standard when it came to how PT was doled out when King couldn't stay on the floor because of bad defense, and yet Greg Paulus got beat off the dribble for four years with limited impact to his role.

Why was he favored over King? I don't have the foggiest idea. But if defense is a limiting factor as to PT for Duke players, Greg's minutes over his career don't compute.

[juise]

Has this been confirmed yet?


Olek Czyz to Leave Duke
12/18/2009 - Duke Sports Information

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204859699

Yes.

[SMO]

I think its hard to argue there wasn't a double standard when it came to how PT was doled out when King couldn't stay on the floor because of bad defense, and yet Greg Paulus got beat off the dribble for four years with limited impact to his role.

Why was he favored over King? I don't have the foggiest idea. But if defense is a limiting factor as to PT for Duke players, Greg's minutes over his career don't compute.

Paulus' career actually undermines your argument. Let's assume your criticism of Paulus is valid. Who are you going to play over Paulus? No one emerged who was capable until Smith unseated him as the starting PG Paulus' senior year! You cite "limited impact to his role". Is losing your starting spot and playing limited minutes your senior year "limited impact"???

[Kedsy]

I think its hard to argue there wasn't a double standard when it came to how PT was doled out when King couldn't stay on the floor because of bad defense, and yet Greg Paulus got beat off the dribble for four years with limited impact to his role.

For one thing, there's a difference between being in the right place and getting beaten by a quicker player, and being in the wrong place. There's a difference between putting forth your best effort, and not. There's a difference between playing good help defense (which Greg did pretty well) and being so far out of position that you can't help anybody. There's also the issue of having alternatives at a particular position. When K believed he had a viable PG alternative that also allowed the team to put better defense on the floor, Greg saw his minutes decline. But we've always had plenty of alternatives at the wing, to Taylor's and Olek's disadvantage. Finally, there's no denying Greg had trouble staying in front of quicker PGs, but to compare his play to Taylor King's more-or-less nonexistent defense is really not fair to Greg.


Humphries had to ask for a release from Duke. Spin it how you want, but that is in effect a transfer.

It's not spin. All the "non-arrivals" on the list who ended up at other schools had to obtain a release. But more than that, if the "issue" is whether we have a problem because kids come here and then decide they don't like it, Humphries's decision had nothing to do with that because he never arrived on campus.

[JG Nothing]

It's not spin. All the "non-arrivals" on the list who ended up at other schools had to obtain a release. But more than that, if the "issue" is whether we have a problem because kids come here and then decide they don't like it, Humphries's decision had nothing to do with that because he never arrived on campus.

Most of the non-arrivals went straight to the pros. Humphries needed a release because he went to the Univ. of Minnesota. Did Livingston have to get a release from Duke to enter the NBA draft out of high school? I seriously doubt it.

[Fish80]

The bad news: Olek is transferring, and we've had a few transfers over the years.

The good news:
- We have the best Coach in the history of the world!
- We are a legitimate top 10 team this year and can compete with anybody.
- We have a lot of big bodies still on the roster who can play and want to stay.

The glass is more than half full, folks. The glass is overflowing.

I hope and pray that Olek finds an opportunity and makes it work.

Next play! I'm getting to the garden early tomorrow! :D

[gumbomoop]

I'm wondering whether the unacknowledged elephant in the room of this thread is the apparent [but possibly overstated] contrast between K's and Roy's style/system. To wit: I am myself amazed and impressed with Roy's ability to play so many guys who aren't yet all that talented. This year, Justin Watts and Leslie McDonald come to mind. I'll be pretty surprised if McDonald doesn't redshirt, but I don't really expect him to transfer, even though, wow, he's got big competition for minutes in the next few years on UNC's wing.

Now I am aware that on at least 2 occasions, most recently in the press release re OC's transfer, K has said, "Looking back, we probably should have redshirted Olek." I'm sorry that didn't happen, for I'd have enjoyed seeing him develop into a player of some ability, clearly depending on his defense. I see this as vaguely analogous to Marty Pocius, whose early departure was a real disappointment. Like a couple - but clearly a minority - of posters to this thread, I was disappointed at OC's quick departure in the G-W game. My guess - that's all it is - is that for OC, that was the last straw [or, to switch cliches, the writing on the wall].

Back to the elephant: the UNC system seems able to utilize, with minutes sufficient to keep most of the lads semi-happy, 10 or 11 guys [or is that an exaggeration?], whereas K seems disinclined to play more than 8. But maybe this year Ryan Kelly's defense will be enough to warrant him some time as player #9, or even #8 with the occasional illness or injury to someone else.

Finally, a related elephant, an old one: those who worry about the "three S's" wearing out by season's end will have been dismayed that OC was pulled, no matter how horrid his D, with Duke up by 40+.

[Tim1515]

Listen i think a lot of us would like to see players get more minutes at times but this is the style that K works with and as a Duke fan, while you have every right to get a little frustrated, you need to accept that's how it will be.

Olek never possessed the skills that K values most of all and as others have said, he had really good talent around him. The same can be said about King, Boykins, Boateng and even Elliot early on. K believes you earn time at practice...not just by being a highly touted recruit or incredibly athletic.

Greg never developed into the PG many of us hoped (although much like McRoberts had a pretty under-appreciated career). Had Duke landed a player like Irving when Greg was a sophomore i'm pretty convinced Paulus would've been coming off the bench...we'll never know.

Too many people thought Smith was that player...but he wasn't ready for that job as a sophomore and even Scheyer passed him now in his junior year.

I hate to see Olek go, i wish him the best.

[Bluedog]

Random question: Is Olek married? Anybody know? According to his own facebook page, he is, although I realize many people put fake marriages up...so not taking it as fact. It lists a girl who went to high school near him and is a year younger.

[Tim1515]

I'm wondering whether the unacknowledged elephant in the room of this thread is the apparent [but possibly overstated] contrast between K's and Roy's style/system. To wit: I am myself amazed and impressed with Roy's ability to play so many guys who aren't yet all that talented. This year, Justin Watts and Leslie McDonald come to mind. I'll be pretty surprised if McDonald doesn't redshirt, but I don't really expect him to transfer, even though, wow, he's got big competition for minutes in the next few years on UNC's wing.

Now I am aware that on at least 2 occasions, most recently in the press release re OC's transfer, K has said, "Looking back, we probably should have redshirted Olek." I'm sorry that didn't happen, for I'd have enjoyed seeing him develop into a player of some ability, clearly depending on his defense. I see this as vaguely analogous to Marty Pocius, whose early departure was a real disappointment. Like a couple - but clearly a minority - of posters to this thread, I was disappointed at OC's quick departure in the G-W game. My guess - that's all it is - is that for OC, that was the last straw [or, to switch cliches, the writing on the wall].

Back to the elephant: the UNC system seems able to utilize, with minutes sufficient to keep most of the lads semi-happy, 10 or 11 guys [or is that an exaggeration?], whereas K seems disinclined to play more than 8. But maybe this year Ryan Kelly's defense will be enough to warrant him some time as player #9, or even #8 with the occasional illness or injury to someone else.

Finally, a related elephant, an old one: those who worry about the "three S's" wearing out by season's end will have been dismayed that OC was pulled, no matter how horrid his D, with Duke up by 40+.

I am impressed with Roy's ability to use his bench. At the same time...Leslie (6.8 mpg) and even top 5 recruit Henson (11.1 mpg) are averaging less then Kelly (12.8 mpg).

What Roy does is he puts guys in with the starting team in the first half. They play maybe 3 minutes with starters. To me that shows confidence in them, they get "actual" game minutes instead of junk minutes and the team knows that short time won't cost them the game.

At the same time...It is UNC's success recently that makes the system seem so great. If UNC loses in the first round this year with 11 guys and Duke makes it to the elite 8 with their top 8 guys people will be quick to jump on Roy for not playing his best players more.

[J.Blink]

Now I am aware that on at least 2 occasions, most recently in the press release re OC's transfer, K has said, "Looking back, we probably should have redshirted Olek."

I thought I had heard (maybe a year ago) that K had offered to redshirt Czyz but Czyz turned it down (on the advice of his father?)?

Anybody remember this or am I totally wrong?

[tbyers11]

I thought I had heard (maybe a year ago) that K had offered to redshirt Czyz but Czyz turned it down (on the advice of his father?)?

Anybody remember this or am I totally wrong?

I was about to post the same thing.

Jim Sumner said here (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=210524&postcount=368) that Duke thought about red-shirting Olek last year. I also remember hearing that the reason Olek wasn't red-shirted was because he didn't want to.

[Tim1515]

I'm honestly not sure how redshirting would've helped...it ultimately didn't help Marty. Olek had a ways to go to be an effective D1 player. The athletic ability was there but the IQ was far behind and honestly...there is probably no worse team to be on then Duke when your weakest area is IQ and you play SF/PF which is a Duke hallmark.

With Z, LT and maybe Kyle leaving there was probably more time available but i'm guessing no more then 10 mpg. Had Kyle stayed he might have gotten less minutes next year.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Why was he favored over King?
Paulus had many talents beyond his ability to score, unlike King. He wasn't quick, and good players took advantage of that, but that is a physical liablity, not a mental one. Taylor King has shown that he has the ability to defend at Villanova...but do some searching and you will find articles attesting that even there he had to learn that defense was important. Paulus always understood the value of defense, and played it the best he could.

[tbyers11]

I'm honestly not sure how redshirting would've helped...it ultimately didn't help Marty. Olek had a ways to go to be an effective D1 player. The athletic ability was there but the IQ was far behind and honestly...there is probably no worse team to be on then Duke when your weakest area is IQ and you play SF/PF which is a Duke hallmark.

With Z, LT and maybe Kyle leaving there was probably more time available but i'm guessing no more then 10 mpg. Had Kyle stayed he might have gotten less minutes next year.

Marty's redshirt had nothing to do with playing time or "seasoning", it was due to injury.

As for Olek, I am not entirely sure if red-shirting would have helped him either. I think it would have helped his "basketball IQ" catch up to his athletic ability enough to make him a viable contributor his junior/senior year but I don't know if it ever would have been enough to get him 20 minutes/gm considering the incoming (remaining?) competition. If he would rather go to a slightly lower tier school where he can probably get 25-30 minutes versus 10-15 here I can't hold anything against him and wish him luck.

[hughgs]

I was about to post the same thing.

Jim Sumner said here (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=210524&postcount=368) that Duke thought about red-shirting Olek last year. I also remember hearing that the reason Olek wasn't red-shirted was because he didn't want to.

I remember it the same way. Coach K wanted Olek to red-shirt, but Olek chose to play.

[NYDukie]

I am impressed with Roy's ability to use his bench. At the same time...Leslie (6.8 mpg) and even top 5 recruit Henson (11.1 mpg) are averaging less then Kelly (12.8 mpg).

What Roy does is he puts guys in with the starting team in the first half. They play maybe 3 minutes with starters. To me that shows confidence in them, they get "actual" game minutes instead of junk minutes and the team knows that short time won't cost them the game.

At the same time...It is UNC's success recently that makes the system seem so great. If UNC loses in the first round this year with 11 guys and Duke makes it to the elite 8 with their top 8 guys people will be quick to jump on Roy for not playing his best players more.

It's a "you say potato I say potato" thing in my opinion. You will get a 50% split from posters of those in favor of developing a bench which "may" have included Olek getting a regular 5-8 minutes a game (who truly knows) and those other against it. I had broached the subject before of getting guys minutes early on to further their development (something that Roy does that I truly endorse much to many posters chagrin- I must give credit where credit is due even if its UNC related) to help the team in long run even if it meant the possibility of losing a game early on. Again, some were for it and some against, though I think a slight bit more were against. Each of those on either side of the arguement will have compelling pros and cons to discuss though I think development of the bench is more important than some think. Maybe such a development may have compelled Olek to stay. Maybe it would have had no impact. Until we know all the facts, we won't know.

And not to get totally off subject since it deals with a different player but potentially similar situation, the next interesting "bench" development will be that of Kelly, in my opinion, as we now move into the ACC part of the season with Mason working his way into a more solid rotation role that possibily takes away from Kelly's minutes. My guess based on past year's patterns will be that Kelly's minutes will diminish and we will see a staunch 8 man rotation with Mason, Andre and Zoubs off the bench. Whether this will be best, will will see. Whether it occurs, also remains to be seen. I hope Kelly is given the opportunity to develop not only at practice and in games situations (and real game situations and not in mop up roles) It will all play out and then again be food for thought after the season as whether what occurs during the season in turns helps meet the desired outcome of the season or not.

Again, I say potato you say potato.

[Houston]

I wish OC the best of luck at his new school. Although it is certainly one's right to transfer to get more playing time, I really respect Marty for facing adversity head on. Marty fought through injury and lack of playing time and stayed for 4 years. He also learned from a HOF coach during those 4 years.

[juise]

I remember it the same way. Coach K wanted Olek to red-shirt, but Olek chose to play.

Or not play, as it turned out (which shouldn't have been a surprise).

[Kewlswim]

Howdy,

When Jamal or Elliot or any kid transfers for family reasons, I consider them big time family and wish them all the best. Czyz came to Duke knowing that he had a lot to work on, he was told that he was a work in progress--BEFORE he arrived. Yet, he wanted to come to work on those things. He wanted to learn from Coach K. Then when things don't go 100% as he would like: He transfers. How is that meant to be commendable? I don't think this was a kid who was sold a bill of goods, he came and wasn't willing to do what he initially said he was willing to do. This is all predicated on playing time being the reason he left. If there is something going wrong with the coaches or players (ie he is being abused or in some way mistreated) then I would change my view very quickly.

GO DUKE!

[Kedsy]

Most of the non-arrivals went straight to the pros. Humphries needed a release because he went to the Univ. of Minnesota. Did Livingston have to get a release from Duke to enter the NBA draft out of high school? I seriously doubt it.

Of course not, but JamesOn Curry did. And, yes, I realize there were extenuating circumstances in Curry's case but you could argue there were in Humphries's case, too, although obviously of a completely different nature.

[SMO]

Howdy,

When Jamal or Elliot or any kid transfers for family reasons, I consider them big time family and wish them all the best. Czyz came to Duke knowing that he had a lot to work on, he was told that he was a work in progress--BEFORE he arrived. Yet, he wanted to come to work on those things. He wanted to learn from Coach K. Then when things don't go 100% as he would like: He transfers. How is that meant to be commendable? I don't think this was a kid who was sold a bill of goods, he came and wasn't willing to do what he initially said he was willing to do. This is all predicated on playing time being the reason he left. If there is something going wrong with the coaches or players (ie he is being abused or in some way mistreated) then I would change my view very quickly.

GO DUKE!

Has anyone suggested his decision is "commendable"? If so, I disagree too but I haven't noticed a lot of that sentiment. It is understandable though and I suspect the staff understands as well.

[Kedsy]

I'm wondering whether the unacknowledged elephant in the room of this thread is the apparent [but possibly overstated] contrast between K's and Roy's style/system. To wit: I am myself amazed and impressed with Roy's ability to play so many guys who aren't yet all that talented. This year, Justin Watts and Leslie McDonald come to mind. I'll be pretty surprised if McDonald doesn't redshirt, but I don't really expect him to transfer, even though, wow, he's got big competition for minutes in the next few years on UNC's wing.


You do realize Olek has played more minutes than McDonald this year, right? And that Duke currently has nine guys (out of ten scholarship players) who average more than 10 minutes per game? (Carolina, by the way, only has eight, although the Wears are both percentage points under that figure.)

I think whoever said Roy seems to play his subs during more meaningful stretches of the game is correct, although I haven't done any research to back that up. It's also true that K seems to shorten his bench as the season goes on, but what people don't seem to realize is Roy does too. He just doesn't do it quite as much, although it's a lot closer than people think. Maybe K's shortening his bench is a problem, maybe it's a good thing. My view is it's neither good nor bad, it just is.

[oldnavy]

Will OC and the other transfers be used against us by our enemies, you bet! So will every other thing that happens to the program - short of winning every national title. Are they indicative of a problem within the program, absolutely not.

I bet Kevin White would get a chuckle out of the suggestion that he look into the program because of OC's transfer. I am just guessing here, but I would wager that of all the things that KW must have to concern himself with, the Duke Men's basketball program is not only NOT near the top of the list, but is probably not even ON the list.

I can hear it now... "Uh Coach, I know that you just won the ACC tournament last year, and that you have restored USA basketball to its rightful place at the top of the world, and that your team is currently in the top ten of all the polls, and that you do have the winningest program of the decade, and you recently signed on of the best PG's in the nation, and you are preparing to go play a top 20 team in MSG, BUT... that Czyz kid leaving has me concerned about the direction of this program..."

As the teenagers like to say... awkward!

[Exiled_Devil]

I don't think the sky is falling, but it would be nice to hear some good news surrounding the program for a change.

Our 'unathletic' point gaurd has the best ATO ratio in the country.

We were just called better than our neighbors by the only team that has played both of us.

We have a top point guard coming in next season.

There is plenty of good news - the issue, I think, is focusing on the actual instead of the hypothetical. Barnes is a hypothetical now. Time to move on until we are beating him next year. Czyz is a hypothetical now. Time to move on and put him in the 'following transfers' thread. Obsessing about the 'mighta beens' and lost opportunities doesn't do anything for the program, and especially for the fans who have no influence on what actually happens.

[Exiled_Devil]

Perceived by whom? Outside the Duke community (and the schools to which these guys have transferred), do you think anybody really noticed any of the transfers besides Elliot? I don't. I think the "perception" is only ours, and thus I don't think there will be any negative fallout.

By extension, how many transfers did Florida have in the past five years?

Michigan State? Kansas? I think people are getting over-excited because of a lack of baseline knowledge on transfers. Transfers have become as common as one-and-dones in modern college basketball. Its just something that needs to be accommodated through recruiting, not having management step in on the coach.

[77devil]

Sweet transferred in 2001 (just like Fingerton). Humphries had to ask for a release from Duke. Spin it how you want, but that is in effect a transfer.

Then again if Humphries actually had transferred he would have had to sit out for a year. Releasing Humphries from the LOI allowed him to immediately play for Minnesota. So who is spinning?

[NSDukeFan]

You do realize Olek has played more minutes than McDonald this year, right? And that Duke currently has nine guys (out of ten scholarship players) who average more than 10 minutes per game? (Carolina, by the way, only has eight, although the Wears are both percentage points under that figure.)

I think whoever said Roy seems to play his subs during more meaningful stretches of the game is correct, although I haven't done any research to back that up. It's also true that K seems to shorten his bench as the season goes on, but what people don't seem to realize is Roy does too. He just doesn't do it quite as much, although it's a lot closer than people think. Maybe K's shortening his bench is a problem, maybe it's a good thing. My view is it's neither good nor bad, it just is.

I wonder if part of this sentiment of how much Roy plays his bench could be due to the fact that he has had some pretty good teams lately (especially last year). These teams were involved in more blowouts where he would then put the bottom guys in for 3-6 minutes each and then wow, look at all the guys he has played. I know I often hear posters complain about K keeping the top players in blowouts as well, but I wonder if this might account for some, if not all, of Roy's "great usage of his bench."

[stickdog]

how you analyze a persons ceiling/game based upon two minutes of playing time? This is unfair and it seemingly speaks to other issues. The guy has never been given a fair shake in my opinion. What player doesn't get beat? Last time I checked Scheyer gets beat against quicker guards at times, Singler, and heck everyone else for that matter, it happens. Uh, that is what coaches are for.?

If there are x recruited scholarship players on the team, one of these players will be the xth best player on the team. This season x equals 10 and Duke's 10th best player was Olek Czyz. He played 61 minutes in 6 of Duke's 9 games so far this season, and he looked like a player who improved vastly from last season in those 61 minutes. But he was still clearly Duke's 10th best player this season. Do you agree or disagree?

[oldnavy]

Will OC and the other transfers be used against us by our enemies, you bet! So will every other thing that happens to the program - short of winning every national title. Are they indicative of a problem within the program, absolutely not.

I bet Kevin White would get a chuckle out of the suggestion that he look into the program because of OC's transfer. I am just guessing here, but I would wager that of all the things that KW must have to concern himself with, the Duke Men's basketball program is not only NOT near the top of the list, but is probably not even ON the list.

I can hear it now... "Uh Coach, I know that you just won the ACC tournament last year, and that you have restored USA basketball to its rightful place at the top of the world, and that your team is currently in the top ten of all the polls, and that you do have the winningest program of the decade, and you recently signed on of the best PG's in the nation, and you are preparing to go play a top 20 team in MSG, BUT... that Czyz kid leaving has me concerned about the direction of this program..."

As the teenagers like to say... awkward!

KW: .... oh, and I know that you are a HOF coach, but can you explain to me why you don't give players like OC a fair shake?

I hope this sounds as silly as I intend it too ....

[stickdog]

Sweet transferred in 2001 (just like Fingerton). Humphries had to ask for a release from Duke. Spin it how you want, but that is in effect a transfer.

How is a release "in effect" a transfer? Isn't that like saying an accceptance letter is "in effect" a matriculation?

[Kane]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/310680-olek-czyz-joining-the-ever-growing-list-of-duke-transfers?utm_source=newsletter

Bleacher Report link above says it all folks . . . Coach K shrinks his rotation every single year to 6 or 7 by year end . . . wears them out just like JJ and Williams were by the end of their senior years (when we should have won it all) and then the team falls flat by the NCAAs, just the same thing repeating over and over . . . when is he going to get it?

HOF so what! HO Shame if you don't learn from the past? No one including our HOF coach is sacred from justified criticism and this is VALID!

[jesus_hurley]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/310680-olek-czyz-joining-the-ever-growing-list-of-duke-transfers?utm_source=newsletter

Bleacher Report link above says it all folks . . . Coach K shrinks his rotation every single year to 6 or 7 by year end . . . wears them out just like JJ and Williams were by the end of their senior years (when we should have won it all) and then the team falls flat by the NCAAs, just the same thing repeating over and over . . . when is he going to get it?

HOF so what! HO Shame if you don't learn from the past? No one including our HOF coach is sacred from justified criticism and this is VALID!

Please say this is a joke and you aren't basing your opinion on a BR editorial

[stickdog]

I think its hard to argue there wasn't a double standard when it came to how PT was doled out when King couldn't stay on the floor because of bad defense, and yet Greg Paulus got beat off the dribble for four years with limited impact to his role.

Why was he favored over King? I don't have the foggiest idea. But if defense is a limiting factor as to PT for Duke players, Greg's minutes over his career don't compute.

Was Paulus constantly in the wrong place on defense? Did Paulus' effort on defense ever wane? Did Paulus buy into Coach K's defensive philosophy to the best of his physical ability?

The comparison is apples to oranges. No, Greg Paulus certainly could not stay in front of Ty Lawson. Now imagine Taylor King trying to do the same as a Duke freshmen.

[azzefkram]

First time posting so take it easy on me guys.

My issue is not with how many players are transferring but who is. The resounding majority seem to be bigs. Starting with Billy McC., I can think of only 3 guards who transferred out. I think all the others have been bigs.

I would not be surprised if this is used against us in recruiting.

[Kedsy]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/310680-olek-czyz-joining-the-ever-growing-list-of-duke-transfers?utm_source=newsletter

Bleacher Report link above says it all folks . . . Coach K shrinks his rotation every single year to 6 or 7 by year end . . . wears them out just like JJ and Williams were by the end of their senior years (when we should have won it all) and then the team falls flat by the NCAAs, just the same thing repeating over and over . . . when is he going to get it?

HOF so what! HO Shame if you don't learn from the past? No one including our HOF coach is sacred from justified criticism and this is VALID!

I'm assuming you are joking because this is a Bleacher Report article? Hoping so, anyway.

[CameronBornAndBred]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/310680-olek-czyz-joining-the-ever-growing-list-of-duke-transfers?utm_source=newsletter

Bleacher Report link above says it all folks !
Bleacher Report is crap. It's nothing but an opinion based site often spewing the "insights" of those who have an axe (or pitchfork) to grind. Once in a blue moon, someone does offer "an article" with valid criticism, but the moon ain't blue today.

[Kedsy]

First time posting so take it easy on me guys.

My issue is not with how many players are transferring but who is. The resounding majority seem to be bigs. Starting with Billy McC., I can think of only 3 guards who transferred out. I think all the others have been bigs.

I would not be surprised if this is used against us in recruiting.

I wouldn't classify Boykin or King as "bigs." Not even sure I'd go there with Olek. Only two true bigs were among Duke's recent transfers.

And two of UNC's four transfers in the same period were bigs. It may just be the nature of the beast.

[stickdog]

I'm wondering whether the unacknowledged elephant in the room of this thread is the apparent [but possibly overstated] contrast between K's and Roy's style/system. To wit: I am myself amazed and impressed with Roy's ability to play so many guys who aren't yet all that talented. This year, Justin Watts and Leslie McDonald come to mind. I'll be pretty surprised if McDonald doesn't redshirt, but I don't really expect him to transfer, even though, wow, he's got big competition for minutes in the next few years on UNC's wing.

Before the laugher against Presbyterian, Watts was averaging 6.1 minutes per game for UNC. Leslie McDonald has so far averaged 6.8 minutes per game in 8 of UNC's 10 games. Olek Czyz averaged 10.2 minuted per game in 6 of Duke's 9 games.

So it appears the elephant in the room is just your cloudy glasses.

[SMO]

I wouldn't classify Boykin or King as "bigs." Not even sure I'd go there with Olek. Only two true bigs were among Duke's recent transfers.

And two of UNC's four transfers in the same period were bigs. It may just be the nature of the beast.

Bigs probably transfer more because there are, I assume, fewer minutes for them in each game since most schools only play 2 true bigs at once. Scarcity of minutes leads to more guys disappointed, which leads to more big guys leaving.

[Kedsy]

Please say this is a joke and you aren't basing your opinion on a BR editorial

I don't think Kane is basing his opinion on Bleacher Report. He's either making fun of Bleacher Report (which I hope is true but suspect isn't), or he posted his own opinion and is using Bleacher Report as "evidence" that he is correct. If that's the case, then of course his use of Bleacher Report is the least of his transgressions.

Or I suppose he might be a troll, but I suspect that's not the case, either.

[killerleft]

how you analyze a persons ceiling/game based upon two minutes of playing time? This is unfair and it seemingly speaks to other issues. The guy has never been given a fair shake in my opinion. What player doesn't get beat? Last time I checked Scheyer gets beat against quicker guards at times, Singler, and heck everyone else for that matter, it happens. Uh, that is what coaches are for.?

The games I saw him in, he looked good. Hitting three pointers, driving to the basket, dunking and a high-energy guy who if given the chance probably wouldn't avoid banging a little in the paint. Question, are you saying he isn't good enough to play for us, but he was recruited heavily by the other power schools: Florida (Billy Donovan, 2 NCAA Titiles) Kentucky (Perennial power) Louisville (Rick Pitino) and ranked 28th in his class, but yet K didn't promise him any time? If the guy was a bad as some posters on here make him to be, K or any of the other power coaches wouldn't have recruited him from the start.

Cmon people, this is not good. You guys/gals on here a waaaaaay to smart. I can tell that, I read your posts.

Laettner.

[Acymetric]

In response to any claim that the problem with Duke is the lack of a family feel:


This is the most close-knit group of guys that I’ve ever played with. We all hang out with each other — there are no cliques.

-Andre Dawkins

[BlueDevilCorvette!]

I wish Olek much success. He made his decision and I support him in whatever he feels is best for him. However, I do wish he would have had more opportunities to play quality minutes. Hey, I wish he would go down the road to NCCU (North Carolina Central University) I bet he would get some burn there and be a fan favorite!

[killerleft]

Sweet transferred in 2001 (just like Fingerton). Humphries had to ask for a release from Duke. Spin it how you want, but that is in effect a transfer.

I think it takes considerable spin to say that a student who never attended Duke could have possibly transferred out.:)

[roywhite]

Not mentioned yet, but the idea that Coach Mike Krzyzewski (with Coach Steve Wojciechowski on his staff) would not give Polish kid Olek Czyz a fair shot is laughable.

[gumbomoop]

Before the laugher against Presbyterian, Watts was averaging 6.1 minutes per game for UNC. Leslie McDonald has so far averaged 6.8 minutes per game in 8 of UNC's 10 games. Olek Czyz averaged 10.2 minuted per game in 6 of Duke's 9 games.

So it appears the elephant in the room is just your cloudy glasses.

I definitely got cloudy glasses today, as I'm up in NC mts with bad blowing snow, car off road, woodpile tough to get to.

I stand corrected by you and by Kedsy [#143].

So, my only question now is whether McDonald will ever experience a "last straw" or see Roy's "writing on the wall," because it appears he's down the bench for his years at UNC.

[sagegrouse]

Not mentioned yet, but the idea that Coach Mike Krzyzewski (with Coach Steve Wojciechowski on his staff) would not give Polish kid Olek Czyz a fair shot is laughable.

Here's what Jimmy V. said about Vinnie DelNegro:

"He's not playing because he's Italian. He's playing because I'm Italian."

The Polish variation:

"Olek's not sitting because he's Polish. And he's certainly not sitting because I'm Polish."

sagegrouse

[Wildcat]

But he was still clearly Duke's 10th best player this season. Do you agree or disagree?

Disagree:

Listen I played, coached, been around college sports for the past 35 plus years; trust me Olek can play! The guy won MVP at the Pro Am last year and was a fan favorite. There is no way you can evaluate his work ethic in practice unless you have been to practice or heard it from someone VERY CLOSE to the team. K puts some players on a short lease and Olek was one.

This will raise some eyebrows but: Olek is better at driving/finishing than Kyle Singler. Olek could finish strong and from the scant looks we've seen of him; was starting to develop an outside shot. The guy is gone; I wish him well and I hope we beat the Zags tomorrow!

[MChambers]

Not mentioned yet, but the idea that Coach Mike Krzyzewski (with Coach Steve Wojciechowski on his staff) would not give Polish kid Olek Czyz a fair shot is laughable.

Just proves that Coach K, ironically enough, can't develop Polish kids. Wojo, Domzalski, and now Czyz. I expect other teams to use this against us in recruiting Polish-American student-athletes.;)

[Griff]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned by anybody but am I the only one who thinks that this could be a sign that the team and staff perhaps might have gotten confirmation that another Small Forward could be joining the team next season?

[tbyers11]

Disagree:

Listen I played, coached, been around college sports for the past 35 plus years; trust me Olek can play! The guy won MVP at the Pro Am last year and was a fan favorite. There is no way you can evaluate his work ethic in practice unless you have been to practice or heard it from someone VERY CLOSE to the team. K puts some players on a short lease and Olek was one.

This will raise some eyebrows but: Olek is better at driving/finishing than Kyle Singler. Olek could finish strong and from the scant looks we've seen of him; was starting to develop an outside shot. The guy is gone; I wish him well and I hope we beat the Zags tomorrow!

I think that how much most of us truly know about Olek's work ethic in practice or how short K's "leash" is with him is about the same and it is pretty close to zero.

Comparing Olek and Kyle based on Olek's play in a high school tourney a year and a half ago with Kyle's play against DI teams for 2+ years doesn't really seem like a valid comparison to me. If Olek got more minutes, maybe he would have produced. I don't know. But to my reasonably trained amateur eye, his playing time to this point didn't show this. Letting him get into the flow of games might have shown more of his skills, but, in my experience, the reason that some players have shorter leashes than others is usually because they are not as good.

[oldnavy]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned by anybody but am I the only one who thinks that this could be a sign that the team and staff perhaps might have gotten confirmation that another Small Forward could be joining the team next season?

That would be nice. Olek's leaving may have something to do with the fact that K and the staff are "recruiting" other SF's which may have been the writing on the wall for OC...

[Kewlswim]

Has anyone suggested his decision is "commendable"? If so, I disagree too but I haven't noticed a lot of that sentiment. It is understandable though and I suspect the staff understands as well.

I thought some were saying he is to be commended. My mistake.

GO DUKE!

[Griff]

That would be nice. Olek's leaving may have something to do with the fact that K and the staff are "recruiting" other SF's which may have been the writing on the wall for OC...

perhaps....

I'm just disappointed in Olek because when he first came I read about how he came to Duke because he wanted to "learn from the best, coach k" and I am sure that Coach K made it a point to let him know that he was a project but with time and practice he could be a great player....but I guess he wanted to play more than he wants to improve...the right way.

I'm just hoping that this has something to do with us making up ground in either Roscoe or Ziegler's recruitment.

[stickdog]

Disagree:

Then which of these players was Czyz better than so far this season: Singler, Scheyer, Smith, Dawkins, MPI, MPII, Thomas, Zoubek or Kelly?

[Devilsfan]

To me he was a Tony Moore clone.

[jgehtland]

Disagree:

Listen I played, coached, been around college sports for the past 35 plus years; trust me Olek can play! The guy won MVP at the Pro Am last year and was a fan favorite. There is no way you can evaluate his work ethic in practice unless you have been to practice or heard it from someone VERY CLOSE to the team. K puts some players on a short lease and Olek was one.

This will raise some eyebrows but: Olek is better at driving/finishing than Kyle Singler. Olek could finish strong and from the scant looks we've seen of him; was starting to develop an outside shot. The guy is gone; I wish him well and I hope we beat the Zags tomorrow!

I don't know if Olek is better at driving and finishing; I certainly haven't seen that in games, but maybe you've seen it elsewhere. BUT, here's what I don't get, guys: people keep espousing some kind of conspiracy theory that K starts dropping guys to the bench even though they are "better" than other players. Why in the world would he do that?

The question you have to ask is, does Coach do what he does to give Duke the best chance to win? If he does, what does it matter what decisions he makes? And if he isn't, why not? Why would he do something obviously counterproductive to Duke winning games?

It bears repeating: Duke is the most successful program night in and night out in the last decade. We have had a bad run in the tournament lately. The tournament is a one-and-done format where luck plays an enormous role. We had an AWESOME stretch in the 90's. We've had a MEDIOCRE stretch in the oughts. That is called.......regression to the mean. AND, even taking that into account, we are still in the top 5 in tournament wins this decade.

[Vincetaylor]

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/6649030/

The main issue to me has been this coaching staff's evaluation of talent. They keep bringing in guys who just aren't that good. Williams is the only player to transfer who was any good in my opinion. Maybe these are the only guys we can get. I don't know. I do know that with all of the early departures to the NBA these days, we can't afford to recruit guys who can be labeled as "projects". Unfortunately, a lot of our "projects" end up either transferring or not improving.

[Kewlswim]

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/6649030/

The main issue to me has been this coaching staff's evaluation of talent. They keep bringing in guys who just aren't that good. Williams is the only player to transfer who was any good in my opinion. Maybe these are the only guys we can get. I don't know. I do know that with all of the early departures to the NBA these days, we can't afford to recruit guys who can be labeled as "projects". Unfortunately, a lot of our "projects" end up either transferring or not improving.

Hi,

I think what might be happening too is that the complimentary players start thinking they are better than they are and transfer. TK might actually be as good as he thought--once he got rid of that gut and started to play some defense. There is a whole thread devoted to transfers so I didn't digress too much here.

GO DUKE!

[dukelifer]

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/6649030/

The main issue to me has been this coaching staff's evaluation of talent. They keep bringing in guys who just aren't that good. Williams is the only player to transfer who was any good in my opinion. Maybe these are the only guys we can get. I don't know. I do know that with all of the early departures to the NBA these days, we can't afford to recruit guys who can be labeled as "projects". Unfortunately, a lot of our "projects" end up either transferring or not improving.
According to several posts on this and other threads- these recent transfers could have been some of our best players- if just given a few more minutes on game day. Also, every one of these players had offers from several major programs- is their evaluation process also flawed?

[RelativeWays]

Email, TK and perhaps Boykin are good players and most likely could have seen more time had they stayed, although after watching Cal, Jamal basically is Lance Thomas, good defense, emotional leader, average to shaky offense.

I thought the main to schools seriously recruiting Olek were Nevada and Louisville. The write up on him from the outset before he ever came on board was he was a project and had some big fundamental issues, but a great athlete with a possibly good upside, mostly off the bench.

I think this and the other transfers previous are the result of iffy talent evaluation and most likely reevaluating the teams needs and priorities at the end of each season. Olek maybe seemed a good idea in 08, now there's the real possibilty he hardly sees the court in his 3rd year depending if Kyle styles and if we get Smith or Mabry.

[NovaScotian]

The games I saw him in, he looked good. Hitting three pointers, driving to the basket, dunking and a high-energy guy who if given the chance probably wouldn't avoid banging a little in the paint. Question, are you saying he isn't good enough to play for us, but he was recruited heavily by the other power schools: Florida (Billy Donovan, 2 NCAA Titiles) Kentucky (Perennial power) Louisville (Rick Pitino) and ranked 28th in his class, but yet K didn't promise him any time? If the guy was a bad as some posters on here make him to be, K or any of the other power coaches wouldn't have recruited him from the start.

Cmon people, this is not good. You guys/gals on here a waaaaaay to smart. I can tell that, I read your posts.

i think the record should be amended to reflect that mr. czyz has not hit three pointers - in fact he has only hit one three pointer (in seven attempts)

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=2733

obviously this is a small sample size, but let's not kid ourselves here - olek czyz was not recruited by anyone to shoot threes.

i always thought of him as sort of analogous to taylor king in that they both faced limited playing time due to either a poor commitment to defense or just the relative inability to play defense to coach mike's liking, and they were entirely one dimensional scorers - for taylor it was shooting threes, and for olek it was throwing down some dope dunks. taylor's skill was obviously more valuable (and in watch 1.5 games of his at nova, it seems he's added more to his game in his year off). olek showed a lot of promise - we've all been wowed by his dunks at countdown to craziness and on youtube, and his athleticism is clear. but in a year and a half, we haven't seen him progress at all. He was given some starts at the beginning of the season, obviously as a temporary thing, but that was his time to earn more playing time out there, and he really disappointed. he still has no offensive game other than looking to dunk, and as many have noted in this thread, looked totally lost on defense. he didnt come to duke to play on the perimeter, he came to be a forward, yet he showed us the ability to do nothing that coach mike asks forwards to do - rebound, and play solid defense. i wish him the best of luck wherever he transfers too - the kid is a fan favorite and probably a riot in the locker room, and whatever team he plays for will be glad to have him, but i have a very hard time imagining what he will look like as a successful college basketball player.

[Kedsy]

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/6649030/

The main issue to me has been this coaching staff's evaluation of talent. They keep bringing in guys who just aren't that good. Williams is the only player to transfer who was any good in my opinion. Maybe these are the only guys we can get. I don't know. I do know that with all of the early departures to the NBA these days, we can't afford to recruit guys who can be labeled as "projects". Unfortunately, a lot of our "projects" end up either transferring or not improving.

I think all we need to know about that article can be found in the byline: "Adam Gold, a Maryland graduate."

As for your assertion that "They keep bringing in guys who just aren't that good," I think our current roster and our win/loss record would suggest otherwise.

[NovaScotian]

According to several posts on this and other threads- these recent transfers could have been some of our best players- if just given a few more minutes on game day. Also, every one of these players had offers from several major programs- is their evaluation process also flawed?

so you're saying we shouldve played eric boateng a few more minutes a game in 2005-06 so he can get beat for more rebounds and get more traveling calls? please. boateng, king, and czyz are the three most recent players to leave for more playing time, and i have a veeery hard time believing any of them would be starters for a duke team until they were seniors.

[Acymetric]

so you're saying we shouldve played eric boateng a few more minutes a game in 2005-06 so he can get beat for more rebounds and get more traveling calls? please. boateng, king, and czyz are the three most recent players to leave for more playing time, and i have a veeery hard time believing any of them would be starters for a duke team until they were seniors.

Not to speak for someone else, but I'm pretty sure the poster was being sarcastic and calling out people that imply things like that.

[Bob Green]

According to several posts on this and other threads- these recent transfers could have been some of our best players- if just given a few more minutes on game day.


so you're saying we shouldve played eric boateng a few more minutes a game in 2005-06 so he can get beat for more rebounds and get more traveling calls?


Not to speak for someone else, but I'm pretty sure the poster was being sarcastic and calling out people that imply things like that.

I'm going to pile on here and agree with Acymetric. It is obvious to me dukelifer was being sarcastic.

[xblade]

The main issue to me has been this coaching staff's evaluation of talent. They keep bringing in guys who just aren't that good.

Pretty much every team in the country has scholarship players who never smell the court.


trust me Olek can play! The guy won MVP at the Pro Am last year

And did squat before that, and squat since. There's a reason he was considered a project by every coach recruiting him, and every recruiting service, and...wait for it....Olek himself. You're probably the only person in America who believes he's better than Kyle at anything basketball related.

[dukelifer]

I'm going to pile on here and agree with Acymetric. It is obvious to me dukelifer was being sarcastic.

Yes- I was being sarcastic. We had such extreme posts lately from folks claiming Czyz and King could become All Americans in their new home to folks saying all these kids are projects and did not develop because K and his staff cannot evaluate talent. Just found the extreme views humorous.

[SMO]

Yes- I was being sarcastic. We had such extreme posts lately from folks claiming Czyz and King could become All Americans in their new home to folks saying all these kids are projects and did not develop because K and his staff cannot evaluate talent. Just found the extreme views humorous.

The extreme views are pretty funny. Hell, if other good schools recruited them then they must be NBA level players, right? Surely no other schools recruit projects or guys to fill holes in their rosters.

[Neals384]

Wow. I've been following DBR for three seasons now, and this is by far the most bizarre thread I've seen. I don't post often, because most DBRers generally know a lot more about bball and the Duke program than I do.

I wish all the best to Olek. If his ambition is to play pro in Europe, he certainly needs to develop and showcase his talent, and he can't do that by riding the pine for 2 1/2 more years. On the other hand, if he wants to be part of a team that may do something very, very special, he should have stayed at Duke.

Discussions in this thread about the depth of Duke's rotation are really about Kelly - do we go 8 deep or 9 deep in most games? There was no chance that Duke would go 10 deep in any competitive game this year. I know Olek can play better, but he was -7 in just a few minutes against G-Webb. Would you spot any ACC opponent 7 points?

The notion that the Duke program, coach K, or Duke recruiting, are somehow deficient because Olek (a) transferred or (b) didn't develop as hoped or (c) didn't get PT he deserved, is what bothers me the most.

On (a), other have pointed out that Duke's transfer rate is no higher than others. At elite programs like Duke, only the best get recruited. OK, Olek was only the 39th(?) best PF, but that means only 39 schools will got someone with more (preceived) potential than Olek. With 10 (or more) scholarship players on roster, someone will always be at the end of the bench. Don't the #10 players at every elite scholl all face the same dilemna? Stay and sit like Marty, or transfer with a chance to play, like Olek.

On (b), one only need cite the development of Miles to demonstrate that players do develop, sometimes dramatically, as part of the Duke program.

On (c), I can only opine that Olek had a chance to start two games this year (others have detailed total minutes played so far). Seems like a fair shot to me.

Maybe some other coach would have strung Olek along - "just stick with it, you're getting better, you'll see meaningful PT later this year / next year / as a senior." Maybe Coach K is more honest, or more blunt than most, and gave Olek the honest feedback he needed to make his decision.

One question I have for the board - how do you think this affects practice? In a five-on-five scrimmage, they'll now have one of the walk-ons included at all times. While not as athetic or skilled, I'm hoping that Peters or Johnson have good enough defense skills and knowledge of the game to make practices as good, maybe better. Thoughts?

Neal

[blu62]

The question of practice reminds me of 1999 (I think) when it was said that Dukes toughest opponents were in practice. There must have been some good players sitting then at game time.

[DU82]

I think all we need to know about that article can be found in the byline: "Adam Gold, a Maryland graduate."


I was not aware that Adam Gold is a Maryland grad. I would not have figured that out listening to him on the radio (although I am not a regular.) He seems to me to be one of the better ones on the local airwaves, and doesn't (to me) have an agenda. Don't just assume things based on something you read, and don't dismiss opinions based on where somebody went to school. (That's not to say that sometimes it does mean exactly what you said. :-) But not in this case, IMO.)

[slower]

I think all we need to know about that article can be found in the byline: "Adam Gold, a Maryland graduate."

Just another egotistical blowhard who clogs up the airwaves. Pretty much EVERYBODY from 850 The Buzz (with the notable exception of David Glenn) is an annoying tool. I've been around radio people my whole life, and "on-air personalities" truly think that they know what they are talking about, although most of them are full of crap and many of them are relatively dim bulbs.

[Wildcat]

If he wasn't on a short leash; PLEASE tell me why in a game where we are blowing the heck out of a totally inferrior opponent the guy only sees TWO minutes of action.?. That's not player development. Why do you have your National Player of the Year candidates still in a game where we are winning by 30 plus points in the second half.? Cmon people. I've been a duke fan all my life; this doesn't look good and doesn't bode well in the basketball world.

[roywhite]

If he wasn't on a short leash; PLEASE tell me why in a game where we are blowing the heck out of a totally inferrior opponent the guy only sees TWO minutes of action.?. That's not player development. Why do you have your National Player of the Year candidates still in a game where we are winning by 30 plus points in the second half.? Cmon people. I've been a duke fan all my life; this doesn't look good and doesn't bode well in the basketball world.

If you've been a Duke fan all your life, you probably realize:
Coach K emphasizes defensive play and rewards it with playing time; Czyz was abysmal on defense in games
Our perimeter rotation is thin this year; Olek is not a ballhandler or perimeter guy
Players often make big improvements in practice and then get more playing time...evidently not the case with Olek.
The 10th man doesn't get a lot of playing time as the year progresses

Opinions may differ, but I didn't see what in Olek's play justified more playing time.

[airowe]

If he wasn't on a short leash; PLEASE tell me why in a game where we are blowing the heck out of a totally inferrior opponent the guy only sees TWO minutes of action.?. That's not player development. Why do you have your National Player of the Year candidates still in a game where we are winning by 30 plus points in the second half.? Cmon people. I've been a duke fan all my life; this doesn't look good and doesn't bode well in the basketball world.

Maybe to get the three guys who are really going to play some serious minutes down the stretch for us some development. Maybe to get Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly more ready for tonight's game. Maybe because Olek had already informed the staff he was going to transfer and he just didn't seem like he cared to be out there.

Why does it matter if Olek played 7 minutes against Gardner-Webb, or 10, or 15? If he wasn't going to contribute when it mattered, why not give the guys who will when it matters MORE playing time so they'll be MORE ready? Why do you think you know how to coach THIS Duke team better than the guy who's doing it now?

[dukelifer]

If he wasn't on a short leash; PLEASE tell me why in a game where we are blowing the heck out of a totally inferrior opponent the guy only sees TWO minutes of action.?. That's not player development. Why do you have your National Player of the Year candidates still in a game where we are winning by 30 plus points in the second half.? Cmon people. I've been a duke fan all my life; this doesn't look good and doesn't bode well in the basketball world.

Duke had a long layoff. Singler was scoreless in the first half and needed some work to get ready for the game today. I expect that is why he was in the game. That game was not about winning- it was about getting pieces to work well together. I actually thought Olek was playing better and could have turned a corner next year. But my guess is that his transfer involves more than just basketball.

[BlueintheFace]

Alright everybody, PURGE if you must

BUT, I would strongly recommend that you don't let some of these ridiculously negative ideas (that have been refuted by facts numerous times) and negative outlooks carry over in to other threads. I suspect the mods have shown the same flexibility in this thread that they do after a loss during the season. I wouldn't expect it to last forever.

...btw, newsflash, we have a very good team. They are ranked high in both polls and ranked higher in the KenPom and Sagarin polls. Just so you know.

[roywhite]

Alright everybody, PURGE if you must

BUT, I would strongly recommend that you don't let some of these ridiculously negative ideas (that have been refuted by facts numerous times) and negative outlooks carry over in to other threads. I suspect the mods have shown the same flexibility in this thread that they do after a loss during the season. I wouldn't expect it to last forever.

...btw, newsflash, we have a very good team. They are ranked high in both polls and ranked higher in the KenPom and Sagarin polls. Just so you know.

Thanks. I've even heard there's an interesting game today.

[jgehtland]

If he wasn't on a short leash; PLEASE tell me why in a game where we are blowing the heck out of a totally inferrior opponent the guy only sees TWO minutes of action.?. That's not player development. Why do you have your National Player of the Year candidates still in a game where we are winning by 30 plus points in the second half.? Cmon people. I've been a duke fan all my life; this doesn't look good and doesn't bode well in the basketball world.

Was Miles on a short leash last year? Everybody was bemoaning how few minutes he got after the first five games. He had a bunch of DNPs. Now he's a starter, playing 20 minutes a game.

Sounds like developing on a short leash, to me. Your point just doesn't seem to make sense. Players develop, here and elsewhere, all the time in practice.

[Wildcat]

I'm through and looking forward to a great game today.

[kmspeaks]

One question I have for the board - how do you think this affects practice? In a five-on-five scrimmage, they'll now have one of the walk-ons included at all times. While not as athetic or skilled, I'm hoping that Peters or Johnson have good enough defense skills and knowledge of the game to make practices as good, maybe better. Thoughts?

Neal

I believe there are still 10 scholarship players available for practice.

Jon, Kyle, Nolan, Mason, Miles, Andre, Ryan, Lance, Zoubek, and Seth Curry.

[sagegrouse]

If he wasn't on a short leash; PLEASE tell me why in a game where we are blowing the heck out of a totally inferrior opponent the guy only sees TWO minutes of action.?. That's not player development. Why do you have your National Player of the Year candidates still in a game where we are winning by 30 plus points in the second half.? Cmon people. I've been a Duke fan all my life; this doesn't look good and doesn't bode well in the basketball world.

As a friend (Jim3K) suggested to me, don't you think K knew he was going to transfer? If so, the decision on PTagainst Gardner-Webb is cast in a different light:

(a) K saw no reason to give development time to a future opponent, aside from a farewell cameo appearance, or--

(b) It was a mutual decision not to risk an injury before Czyz signed elsewhere.

As someone else is fond of posting here, "beware the fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc, which roughly means 'after which, therefore on account of which.'" In fact, the direction of causation may be reversed.

sagegrouse

[PSurprise]

Hmm. I've been taking care of my one-month old son at all hours of the day and just had a foot of snow blocking us into our house probably for a few days-and I have never had the urge to write anything like that. Not even about Roy (although I have probably thought something similar to that a few times about good 'ole boy). Oh well.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Best of luck Olek. I wish it would have worked out better for you at Duke. I will continue to root for you and follow your career.

[JG Nothing]

How is a release "in effect" a transfer? Isn't that like saying an accceptance letter is "in effect" a matriculation?
Bad analogy. An acceptance letter does not mean the applicant has committed. Humphries made a binding commitment to attend Duke and, because he was unhappy with the program, asked to be released so he could attend another school.
I use the phrase "in effect" because I realize it was technically not a transfer. However, the circumstances (i.e. long standing binding commitment to a school and request for a release) and motivations (i.e. issues about playing time) are quite similar to what we normally call a transfer, hence "in effect."

[DukeUsul]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/310680-olek-czyz-joining-the-ever-growing-list-of-duke-transfers?utm_source=newsletter

Bleacher Report link above says it all folks . . . Coach K shrinks his rotation every single year to 6 or 7 by year end . . . wears them out just like JJ and Williams were by the end of their senior years (when we should have won it all) and then the team falls flat by the NCAAs, just the same thing repeating over and over . . . when is he going to get it?

HOF so what! HO Shame if you don't learn from the past? No one including our HOF coach is sacred from justified criticism and this is VALID!

OMG it's such a shame that Coach K is suddenly shortening his bench in just the last five years! We never could have won a championship with just a few players getting all the minutes.

I yearn for the days when we had 10 guys playing sizeable minutes at the end of the year! There's no way to win championship with just 7 players!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/2001/ncaa_tourney/news/2001/04/02/dau_aaq/
http://www.hickoksports.com/history/ncaambask1992.shtml#boxs
http://www.hickoksports.com/history/ncaambask1991.shtml#boxs

:rolleyes:

I can't believe Coach K overplayed all these guys. Bunch of suckers who played too much throughout the season and all faded down the stretch.

Minutes Played (Season)
Rk Name, Year Min
1. Shane Battier (Sr.), 2001 1,363
2. Bobby Hurley (So.), 1991 1,353
3. J.J. Redick (Sr.), 2006 1,336
4. Johnny Dawkins (Sr.), 1986 1,324
5. Chris Duhon (Sr.), 2004 1,311
6. Johnny Dawkins (So.), 1984 1,306
7. Bobby Hurley (Fr.), 1990 1,268
8. Jason Williams (So.), 2001 1,240
9. Tommy Amaker (Fr.), 1984 1,235
10. J.J. Redick (Jr.), 2005 1,231

:rolleyes:

[Regenman]

Considering that one of the criticisms of the Redick years was that he faded down the stretch, I think that Usul's list is probably counterproductive to his intent. :rolleyes:

[jpfrizzle]

I heard rumors that its because he wanted more playing time. C`mon, if that's true. I didn't see him produce much on the court this early season anyway. One other factor he can't forget is the fact that he started his basketball career late. The guy has to figure out the boundaries of his ability before he can go demanding minutes.
That's like me getting my first CEO job at 50 and then demanding a salary raise in the first 6 months of work. Not gonna happen. That company is going to ask me if I'm mad or stupid.
I trust Coach K's ability enough to know that if a player needs more time to develop, then K's not going to play you much. That's life. That's basketball.
Wasn't Olek red-shirted? If so, he's a madman for leaving or just plain arrogant.

[airowe]

Considering that one of the criticisms of the Redick years was that he faded down the stretch, I think that Usul's list is probably counterproductive to his intent. :rolleyes:

Did you not see #s 1,2, 7, and 8?

:rolleyes:

[DukeUsul]

Considering that one of the criticisms of the Redick years was that he faded down the stretch, I think that Usul's list is probably counterproductive to his intent. :rolleyes:

Thanks for extrapolating one data point out of ten to a trend.....

:rolleyes:

[chrisheery]

Bad analogy. An acceptance letter does not mean the applicant has committed. Humphries made a binding commitment to attend Duke and, because he was unhappy with the program, asked to be released so he could attend another school.
I use the phrase "in effect" because I realize it was technically not a transfer. However, the circumstances (i.e. long standing binding commitment to a school and request for a release) and motivations (i.e. issues about playing time) are quite similar to what we normally call a transfer, hence "in effect."

This is not exactly right. Coach K let him out of his commitment because it became obvious that he had a bad attitude, was demanding to start, and Coach K knew he would be a problem for the team. Coach K's feeling was proven correct when Humphries put up huge numbers while his team struggled. It was reported throughout the year that he was a me-first kid. He left after 1 year, leaving Minnesota without any real impact for their program. He now sits on the bench for his second NBA team, puts up great numbers, but I think his plus-minus is always bad.

So, to say he was "unhappy" with the program is to say that the Grizzlies "lost" Iverson because he was "unhappy" with the organization. The truth is, it was just a bad fit because the player wasn't what the team wanted and the team wouldn't bend to his whim at the expense of the rest of the team.

[DukieBoy]

As a friend (Jim3K) suggested to me, don't you think K knew he was going to transfer? If so, the decision on PTagainst Gardner-Webb is cast in a different light:

(a) K saw no reason to give development time to a future opponent, aside from a farewell cameo appearance, or--

(b) It was a mutual decision not to risk an injury before Czyz signed elsewhere.

As someone else is fond of posting here, "beware the fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc, which roughly means 'after which, therefore on account of which.'" In fact, the direction of causation may be reversed.

sagegrouse

This makes the most sense to me out of everything said. Being a college student, a lot of kids know early on if a college really isn't for them. Maybe they had this conversation early on and he was just cruising the rest of the way until semester break.

[-bdbd]

Originally Posted by Regenman:
Considering that one of the criticisms of the Redick years was that he faded down the stretch, I think that Usul's list is probably counterproductive to his intent.


Thanks for extrapolating one data point out of ten to a trend.....
:rolleyes:

Gotta Agree with Regenman... a LOT of people wish we'd utilize our deep benches more each year. I've actually had coversations with some former players on this topic and they generally agree, but essentially respond that that is K -- he is SO competitive that he wants intensely to even win those early season games, and developing the deeper bench becomes secondary. Certainly this was a common criticsm during the JJ years (and it affected other players - Sheldon noteably - who faded in the post-season as well). And for those who don't recall, this criticism actually was heard some in the mid-late 90's too, and arguably impacted Duhon and JayWil too. But I think we've got enough quality depth this year - maybe 9-10 deep - and the "delta" between the starting 5 and the next 5, importantly, isn't as great as in years past. Since bigs tend to wear down quicker, I'm really glad that we are particularly deep in that area.

But back to the topic at hand: I'm very sorry to see a great kid like Olek go, and wish him the very best wherever he ends up. Since he went to HS in Nevada, wouldn't he be a good fit at Stanford playing for a certain coach we all know and love (but who needs more size)?? However, doesn't this open up an important scholarship for Duke for the HS Junior class (or even Seniors), as we are in pretty good with several top-tier recruits at this juncture? :confused:

Go Duke!!

[Bob Green]

Certainly this was a common criticsm during the JJ years (and it affected other players - Sheldon noteably - who faded in the post-season as well).

I do not remember Shelden Williams fading in the post season. In the Sweet 16 loss to LSU, Williams scored 23 points, grabbed 13 rebounds, and blocked four shots:

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=20060323

His junior season, in the Sweet 16 loss to Michigan State, Williams scored 19 points, grabbed eight rebounds, and bocked two shots:

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=20050325

[airowe]

I do not remember Shelden Williams fading in the post season. In the Sweet 16 loss to LSU, Williams scored 23 points, grabbed 13 rebounds, and blocked four shots:

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=20060323

Not sure if he was referring to Shelden Williams. He did say "Sheldon"...
;)

[Neals384]

I believe there are still 10 scholarship players available for practice.

Jon, Kyle, Nolan, Mason, Miles, Andre, Ryan, Lance, Zoubek, and Seth Curry.

Thanks, I forgot about Seth.

[DukeUsul]

I do not remember Shelden Williams fading in the post season. In the Sweet 16 loss to LSU, Williams scored 23 points, grabbed 13 rebounds, and blocked four shots:

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=20060323

His junior season, in the Sweet 16 loss to Michigan State, Williams scored 19 points, grabbed eight rebounds, and bocked two shots:

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=20050325

Oh come on Bob, there you go with facts again.

:rolleyes:

[gep]

I've actually had coversations with some former players on this topic and they generally agree, but essentially respond that that is K -- he is SO competitive that he wants intensely to even win those early season games, and developing the deeper bench becomes secondary.

I vaguely remember a post-game interview a few years ago where someone asked Coach K why he had the starters in towards the end of the game with the game "apparently" won and out of reach. His answer was something like "if you think the game is over at that point, you don't know basketball". That told me that Coach K doesn't take anything for granted regarding winning. Until the final buzzer, the game is still up for grabs (see Maryland - miracle 50 seconds).

[amyindurham]

So...sorry if this is a silly question, but I don't really understand the logistics of mid-season transfers like this one. But, what does this mean for Olek for the rest of this season? Is he just off the team as of now? Or does he stay with Duke through the spring? Again, this may be really dumb, but I've not really heard much about how it all works, so I thought I'd ask you, the DBR experts! :-)

[Bluedog]

So...sorry if this is a silly question, but I don't really understand the logistics of mid-season transfers like this one. But, what does this mean for Olek for the rest of this season? Is he just off the team as of now? Or does he stay with Duke through the spring? Again, this may be really dumb, but I've not really heard much about how it all works, so I thought I'd ask you, the DBR experts! :-)

He's off the team as of now. He's not staying with Duke through the spring. Since transfers have to sit out for 1 year, he can play with his new team starting second semester next year assuming he transfers by the beginning of second semester courses this year. So, he'd only miss the early games next season, which is a large incentive for leaving after first semester instead of second in basketball.

Nevada has been given permission to contact Olek. I could see him ending up there. Their classes start January 19th. Olek can take up to five official visits before deciding, but he's going to need to enroll immediately in his transfer school if he doesn't want to have to sit out even longer.

http://www.rgj.com/article/20091219/SPORTS06/912190361/1018/SPORTS

[johnb]

I'd think it's more likely that he wants to practice the 7 or 8 guys who are going to be playing the ncaa's. I don't think he really worries about dropping a 30 point lead. Could someone get hurt? Sure, but I think he anticipates that they'll get stronger and more cohesive.

Good luck Olek! Hope you get some serious minutes and fun out there.

[juise]

Nikita Mescheriakov, a European player at Georgetown, has decided to transfer (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4764768) so that he can get more playing time. They'll never land another recruit again! :p

[MarkD83]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4764768

[zdn_peanut]

Any updates? Is Nevada a sure thing and that's why we aren't hearing anything?

[xblade]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4764768

"At least five Hoyas players have transferred to other schools in the last three years."

5 transfers in 3 years, yet you've probably heard nothing about it. Transfers happen at Duke, however, and everyone in the media claims the program is broken, and it's time for K to get it in gear and fix it.

[ScreechTDX1847]

"At least five Hoyas players have transferred to other schools in the last three years."

5 transfers in 3 years, yet you've probably heard nothing about it. Transfers happen at Duke, however, and everyone in the media claims the program is broken, and it's time for K to get it in gear and fix it.

I'm not sure the entire media is attacking K for having transfers bro.

[CDu]

I'm not sure the entire media is attacking K for having transfers bro.

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. The only media bashing has been regarding our recent (relative) struggles in the NCAA tournament and that we get all the calls. Maybe a handful of local pundits (who are mainly UNC alums in this area) have brought up the transfers, but it's certainly not be a point of national debate.

There are a lot of people on this board complaining, but I haven't seen that much media bashing of Coach K for the transfers. And I'd guess there are similar concerns being raised by some fans at Georgetown with their transfers.

[Bob Green]

According to this article:

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/DougHaller/71396

Olek Czyz has selected Nevada.

[-bdbd]

Good for him. Nevada will be very different than Duke of course. But at least he'll get serious play and quickly. 'wish him well there. Not too far from where he went to High School as well.

Now let's get busy filling that vacant scholarship slot!!


:):):):)

[Jim3k]

Not too far from where he went to High School as well.



Stating the obvious? UNR is 1.7 miles from Reno HS. :D If Olek were to walk it, it might be further, since UNR's campus is fairly good sized. It would also be uphill. Of course, the high school's location is irrelevant since he would either be living on the UNR campus or at home.

Tonight, in Reno it's 47 and raining. Pretty warm for this time of year. He can expect some below-zero time later this winter.

[soccerstud2210]

i wish him luck.

i was excited for this kid when he came in as a freshman. too bad it didnt pan out for both him and duke.

good luck oCzyz!

[G man]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/07/21/euro.u20s/index.html

Good to see that he is doing well. To bad he never came into his own with u

[Osiagledknarf]

Glad to see him doing well and I hope he does at Nevada this season. It is too bad it never worked out here, but kids change there mind and go down different roads sometimes and learned that Duke wasn't for him. Glad to see him doing well.

[DukeDevilDeb]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/07/21/euro.u20s/index.html

Good to see that he is doing well. To bad he never came into his own with u

I had Olek in two classes, and he was a really good kid... but he felt it was clear that he was not going to get significant playing time by staying at Duke. That is a tough decision, I'm sure. I know it was for others who have made it. But if you aren't going to be on the court, and you think you COULD be somewhere else... I can understand wanting to leave.

[ElSid]

I'm going to miss getting to say you got czyzed on.

[Richard Berg]

24.2 mpg, 13.8 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 72.1 percent shooting
Unless a guy with relatively raw bball skills has suddenly morphed into the second coming of JJ, he must be throwing down a ton of tomahawk jams :) Wish I could be there to see it. Especially impressive when you consider the way FIBA defenses tend to pack the paint area.