What's Happened to the Pac 10?

[Olympic Fan]

A few weeks ago, there was a thread here about how the ACC was struggling in the "BCS Challenge." Well, the concerns turned out to be premature -- the ACC (despite losing the Big Ten Challenge) has bounced back nicely. The league is (as of Sunday morning) 77-22 outside the conference and 19-16 head-to-head with the other BCS leagues.

In terms of conference rankings, the ACC is 1st in Sagarin, second (behind the Big East) in BCS and second (behind the Big 12) in Pomeroy.

Not bad.

But has anybody else taken a look at what a mess the Pac 10 has become?

Watching Georgetown pound down Washington -- regarded as the best team in the Pac 10 -- Saturday in Anaheim, it got me thinking. And that game was followed by Mississippi State's beatdown of UCLA in the second game of the Wooden Classic.

As of this moment, the Pac 10 is 48-36 against OOC competition -- a terrible number for a BCS conference. Worse, it's 5-19 against BCS competition.

In the RPI rankings, Washington (8), Cal (15) and Washington State (79) are the only teams in the top 100 -- UCLA (255) is one of three league teams that are not in the top 200.

The Pac 10's two power teams are both horrendous -- UCLA is 2-6 ... Arizona is 4-5 (107 in the RPI, 201 in Sagarin). Imagine the panic around here if Duke and UNC were headed for losing seasons in the same year!

UCLA's meltdown -- after a long period of consistent success under Ben Howland -- reminds me of what UNC went through in 2002 under Matt Doherty (in both cases, the teams were worse than the Duke meltdown in 1995). Arizona, which has the longest active streak of NCAA appearances (not counting the 1999 appearance that was later vacated), will almost certainly have to win th Pac 10 tournament to get a bid this year.

That's the problem with such a horrible pre-conference meltdown. Once the teams start playing conference games, some will improve their records ... but that might not help much as far as NCAA selection goes. Of course, it does help the Pac 10 that UCLA AD Dan Guerrerro is the chairman of the selection committee. He might not be able to do much for his own Bruins, but he ought to help the league out.

Still, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the Pac 10 could be a two-bid league. The West Coast Conference (with Gonzaga, Portland and St. Mary's) might end up with more bids.

It's an astonishing conference-wide meltdown.

[DukieBoy]

They talked about the decline of the Pac-10 in a recent game I saw. IIRC, they said something like 13 players in the Pac-10 have been drafted in the 1st round over the last 2 years. You can't lose that much talent and not expect a drop-off

[ChicagoCrazy84]

The Pac 10 is terrible this year. They'll get no more than 3 teams in the Big Dance this year. Washington should be a lot better, I thought they would be a top 15 team all year long. Isiah Thomas and Abdul Gaddy are really good players.

I will give the Pac 10 props though, a lot of the players that have been drafted are doing really well.

Mayo
Westbrook
Love
Brook Lopez
Bayless
Mbah a Moute
Ryan Anderson
Collison
Harden
DeRozan
Taj Gibson
Budinger

Besides Jrue Holiday, Jon Brockman, and Jordan Hill, most everyone drafted (and expected to contribute)is making the most of it.

[theAlaskanBear]

The Pac 10 is terrible this year. They'll get no more than 3 teams in the Big Dance this year. Washington should be a lot better, I thought they would be a top 15 team all year long. Isiah Thomas and Abdul Gaddy are really good players.

I will give the Pac 10 props though, a lot of the players that have been drafted are doing really well.

Mayo
Westbrook
Love
Brook Lopez
Bayless
Mbah a Moute
Ryan Anderson
Collison
Harden
DeRozan
Taj Gibson
Budinger

Besides Jrue Holiday, Jon Brockman, and Jordan Hill, most everyone drafted (and expected to contribute)is making the most of it.

Yeah, they have lost a lot of talent over the last couple of years, particularly the flagship schools (UCLA and Arizona). However is that much different from the ACC?

The problem is that at Arizona, the coaching situation the last couple of years made for some recruiting deficiencies. Sean Miller will take them back to the top.

UCLA is a very interesting case. To some extent they are a victim of their own success. Talent has bled out of that program into the NBA. I'm not sure Howland has been able to adjust from recruiting 4 year blue chippers at Pitt, to the more turbulent situation of NBA high-caliber recruits. I mean, Love would be a Junior this year, Westbrook a Senior, and Drue Holliday a sophomore. Collison and Mbah a Moute would have graduated.

Still, this is crazy for UCLA to be THIS bad.

2008, the pac-10 had 5 of the first 11 picks in the NBA draft. Not bad, but that was 2 years ago

[dukefan704]

The Pac-10 is way down this year. Washington is the best team on paper, but honestly it is a tossup from top to bottom. Arizona State is a fairly good team. This is the worst season for UCLA in years. The Pac-10 is a historically good conference, but this is one of the worst years for it in quite some time.

Like someone said earlier, I see no more than 3 teams from the Pac-10 making the NCAA Tournament. And the teams that do make it will lose in the early going

[SoCalDukeFan]

Kevin Love and Kyle Singler were both from Oregon.

UCLA got Love. They went to the FF with him, but only got one season before he went pro.

We got 3 or maybe 4 from Kyle.

Which one was the better recruit?

I think UCLA's problem is that Howland did not anticipate players going to the NBA. Howland needs strong inside bangers and a point guard who can break down the D and dish. After he lost Love he recruited Morgan who is not a banger and sits on the bench. He also recruited Drew Gordon, who is more of a finesse guy, and Gordon quit the team and will transfer. He lost Holliday and has no one to run the point.

SoCal

[DukeBlueDevils47]

UCLA is total garbage it truly pains me to even watch highlights of their games. the only Pac-10 teams that i've seen play ANY good basketball this year are Washington and Stanford.....but yes you kinda have too cut UCLA some slack they did lose Love and Holliday(even though he only averaged 8 ppg last year)

[RoyalBlue08]

I think this year's UCLA team should be used as a good example to some of our more negative fans of how hard it is to field an elite team year in and year out. It's really easy to go from Final Fours every year to missing the tourney if a few too many guys leave early and a few recruits don't work out they way you think they are going to. IMO, too many of our fans (and too many people who post on this board) take making the Sweet 16 for granted and consider a season that ends there a failure. Maybe UCLA's season this year can remind us that fielding an elite team every year is hard and maybe we should give the Duke coaching staff more appreciation for pulling it off every single season!

[FireOgilvie]

I think this year's UCLA team should be used as a good example to some of our more negative fans of how hard it is to field an elite team year in and year out. It's really easy to go from Final Fours every year to missing the tourney if a few too many guys leave early and a few recruits don't work out they way you think they are going to. IMO, too many of our fans (and too many people who post on this board) take making the Sweet 16 for granted and consider a season that ends there a failure. Maybe UCLA's season this year can remind us that fielding an elite team every year is hard and maybe we should give the Duke coaching staff more appreciation for pulling it off every single season!

I get what you're saying, but UCLA is a terrible example for this. UCLA went to the Final Four 3 out of the past 4 years. Duke's last Final Four was 2003-2004.

[DukeBlood]

The Pac-10 is way down this year. Washington is the best team on paper, but honestly it is a tossup from top to bottom. Arizona State is a fairly good team. This is the worst season for UCLA in years. The Pac-10 is a historically good conference, but this is one of the worst years for it in quite some time.

Like someone said earlier, I see no more than 3 teams from the Pac-10 making the NCAA Tournament. And the teams that do make it will lose in the early going

While the Pac-10 is way down, Washington is not in that toss-up you mention. They are either going to finish first or second. Arizona State and Cal will probably contend for the Pac-10 crown against the Dawgs. Outisde of that, Its most likely a coin-toss. If Washington can start finding another option, they will be more then a quick loss tourney team. If they dont, then they are gone.

Cal has alot of parts to make up a really good team, they just haven't put it together. Jerome Randle is a very dangerous guard, and Mr. Jamal Boykin(Former Duke transfer) is really doing quite well for the Golden Bears. Do not sleep on this team.

We all know what Herb is doing for ASU, They will be a decent team as well.

[RoyalBlue08]

I get what you're saying, but UCLA is a terrible example for this. UCLA went to the Final Four 3 out of the past 4 years. Duke's last Final Four was 2003-2004.

I think perhaps you are not getting my point, or perhaps you just disagree with it. I was using UCLA as an example because of their recent success, which would be similar to the success Duke had from 98-04 or whatever (obviously without the title). Despite this recent success however, they will have to really turn things around in a hurry or they aren't even going to make the tournament this year. Imagine how much the sky would be falling around here if we missed the tourney. My point is that success is cyclical for every program, but if the down cycle for Duke is our past few seasons, then we are doing pretty good!

[brevity]

Kevin Love and Kyle Singler were both from Oregon.

UCLA got Love. They went to the FF with him, but only got one season before he went pro.

We got 3 or maybe 4 from Kyle.

Which one was the better recruit?

I'd argue the better recruit was Kevin Love. Now, had you asked which was the better addition to a college program, I'd say Kyle Singler.

[pfrduke]

Pulling this back up to the top, the Pac-10 has, thus far, had a post-season to match its season.

First, ASU lost last night (at home) when they allowed Jacksonville to come back from 11 down with under 4 to play. Then tonight, Oregon State (trying to defend last year's CBI title) got skunked by Boston U at home.

Two of the four post-season teams are already done playing, and Cal's already a man down with Amoke suspended.

[AZLA]

The way Pac 10 basketball is going this be best illustrated by ASU's loss to Jacksonville in the NIT -- a last second three point bank shot, and no one called "GLASS." Must be that "East Coast" bias. That being said, a colleague from Cal guarantees me they will beat Louisville. So they got that going for them.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

Kevin Love and Kyle Singler were both from Oregon.

UCLA got Love. They went to the FF with him, but only got one season before he went pro.

We got 3 or maybe 4 from Kyle.

Which one was the better recruit?

I think UCLA's problem is that Howland did not anticipate players going to the NBA. Howland needs strong inside bangers and a point guard who can break down the D and dish. After he lost Love he recruited Morgan who is not a banger and sits on the bench. He also recruited Drew Gordon, who is more of a finesse guy, and Gordon quit the team and will transfer. He lost Holliday and has no one to run the point.

SoCal

Well in all honesty, it depends. If Kyle never makes it to the final four then i will say Love was the better recruit. He simply took them further in the tourny