The Development of Lance Thomas

[feldspar]

Lance was one of the first Duke kids I actually followed through his recruitment and anticipated his announcement. I was thrilled when he announced for Duke and what he would bring to the table.

Now, almost four years later, I look back at Lance now, and find it hard to believe this is the same player from high school. Lance was rated so high largely due to his ability to drive to the basket and draw fouls. He logged a lot of minutes at small forward in high school due to his quick first step and ability to drive the baseline.

So what happened? Now that we have three years to look back on his Duke career, can anyone shed light on his transition to pure power forward? And was it a good move for Lance? Perhaps it's just me, but I don't ever remember Lance being utilized as a small forward. I don't ever remember him regularly being put in positions to take his man off the dribble.

This is just not the same player I remember following in high school. It's easy to see that not all high school players see their game stay the same from high school to D-I basketball. But, more often than not, they have to adjust down in position (forward to guard, etc), not up as Lance has done.

Thoughts?

[Jeffrey]

Perhaps it's just me, but I don't ever remember Lance being utilized as a small forward.

I strongly preferred G as last year's 3 and Kyle as this year's.


I don't ever remember him regularly being put in positions to take his man off the dribble.

Do you think he can, consistently? How good are his ball-handling skills?

[jv001]

I never saw Lance as a high school player. So I don't know how well he played at the SF position. He has been used mainly at PF, screen setter and a defensive stopper. Did he have a decent jumpshot when in high school or was he as you stated a driver to the basket only? I really like Lance and his loyalty to Duke. I hope he get's it going and is consistent the rest of this year. I just think it might be too late. Go Duke!

[DukieBoy]

I strongly preferred G as last year's 3 and Kyle as this year's.

Agreed. It's not that Lance did anything wrong, but G was such a better athlete that he needed to be at the 3

[feldspar]

I strongly preferred G as last year's 3 and Kyle as this year's.



Do you think he can, consistently?

I dunno. That's kind of the question I'm raising.

At this point, no. But I'm curious as to whether he came in and was put at the 4 (in general) because he couldn't cut it at the college 3 or because Duke needed him at the 4, and he just hasn't adapted as well as we had hoped.

[CDu]

Lance was one of the first Duke kids I actually followed through his recruitment and anticipated his announcement. I was thrilled when he announced for Duke and what he would bring to the table.

Now, almost four years later, I look back at Lance now, and find it hard to believe this is the same player from high school. Lance was rated so high largely due to his ability to drive to the basket and draw fouls. He logged a lot of minutes at small forward in high school due to his quick first step and ability to drive the baseline.

So what happened? Now that we have three years to look back on his Duke career, can anyone shed light on his transition to pure power forward? And was it a good move for Lance? Perhaps it's just me, but I don't ever remember Lance being utilized as a small forward. I don't ever remember him regularly being put in positions to take his man off the dribble.

This is just not the same player I remember following in high school. It's easy to see that not all high school players see their game stay the same from high school to D-I basketball. But, more often than not, they have to adjust down in position (forward to guard, etc), not up as Lance has done.

Thoughts?

I didn't follow Thomas in high school, but his scout page suggests that his areas to improve were defensive presence, shooting range, and shooting off the dribble. His strengths were rebounding, intensity, and drawing fouls.

Well, a big difference between high school and college (especially for thin, 6'8" athletic guys) is the increase in size and speed of the game. We're seeing that with John Henson right now. He was a guy who absolutely DOMINATED in high school, but is struggling to adjust to the size and speed of the game.

To some degree (possibly the primary issue), I think this has been the issue for Thomas. He's never been a physical guy, and I suspect that the fouls drawn and rebounds were somewhat of a function of being taller and more athletic than most in high school. Defenses are bigger, stronger, faster, and better, and some guys make the transition more easily than others. Some guys just don't make the transition.

I do agree he's had to play PF/C rather than PF/SF. But I don't know that it's the main reason for his lack of development offensively. After all, you'd think that playing PF/C against bigger, slower guys would have encouraged the development of Thomas' perimeter skills (similar to Singler drawing bigger guys away from the hoop and beating them off the dribble). He hasn't really ever shown the offensive skillset of a college SF.

But the simplest answer is just that, especially with bigger guys, it's just really hard to know how they'll transition college where their opposition is bigger and faster than they're used to facing.

[Rudy]

My fuzzy recall is that with the departure of McRoberts, maybe others, that the team was thin at the big positions and Lance's defensive abilities were needed at those spots. It seems he developed his strength at the expense of developing his scoring ability. When I first saw him at Duke I was really impressed with how quick he could move to the basket with the ball, but even then he was inconsistent about actually putting it through the hoop once he was there at close range. I certainly wish him well and hope he continues to provide great minutes for the team, but his scoring abilities have never developed well.

[Cockabeau]

Lance does a good job on defense but this team isn't going to beat teams on defense.

We don't have enough guards to employ the pressure man-to-man defense. If we play this type of defense we will wear down by February.

So if this team has to rely on offense to win games, Lance should not be getting 22 minutes a game because he is very limited on offense. Play Mason, Kelly,Dawkins.

LT and Z are very limited and playing them alot hinders the development of this team

[CDu]

I dunno. That's kind of the question I'm raising.

At this point, no. But I'm curious as to whether he came in and was put at the 4 (in general) because he couldn't cut it at the college 3 or because Duke needed him at the 4, and he just hasn't adapted as well as we had hoped.

I'm inclined to believe that Thomas was brought in with the idea of him being a 4 sort of in the mold of an Antonio Lang. He unfortunately also had to play a lot at the 5 due to the early departures of Boateng, Boykin, and McRoberts and the injuries to Zoubek. But I don't think Duke ever envisioned Thomas primarily as a 3. Maybe they envisioned a 4/3 (primarily a 4 but capable of the 3), but he's never really shown the sort of skill set offensively to be primarily a 3, in my opinion.

[Jeffrey]

I dunno. That's kind of the question I'm raising.

At this point, no. But I'm curious as to whether he came in and was put at the 4 (in general) because he couldn't cut it at the college 3 or because Duke needed him at the 4, and he just hasn't adapted as well as we had hoped.

IMO, all the above. We've had much better 3 options and LT is not a great ball-handler and cannot consistently blow by defenders. We've had a lot of need for 4's (especially defensively) during LT's years.

[mr. synellinden]

I envisioned Lance being a John Smith-type player at Duke - a versatile big man who had the agility to defend all over the court and score in various ways -- not a prolific scorer, but someone who could hit a 15 footer, finish inside and get putbacks. But his offensive games is severely limited. He only seems to score on hustle plays, picking up loose balls under the basket, an occasional putback and an occasional fast break. He seems to have no other way to score consistently. I think Mason is going to push him out of the starting lineup by the start of the ACC schedule, and think he will be a valuable bench player.

It's unfortunate but that's just the way it is. I read about K saying that he would play in the NBA someday, which seems hard to believe but he knows better than any of us do.

[Jeffrey]

I read about K saying that he would play in the NBA someday, which seems hard to believe but he knows better than any of us do.

LT is an excellent defender and there are certain NBA stars who have no desire for their team to have a realistic 5th scoring option.

[PhillyDuke]

Lance was a McD's All-American. What happened?

[jv001]

Lance was a McD's All-American. What happened?

McRoberts was the #1 rated player in his high school class and clearly he was not close to that in college. Sometimes the so called experts are wrong. Go Duke!

[DukieInBrasil]

The thing that sticks out to me when i think of LT is how inconsistent he is. The last 2 games are a perfect example. He put up a double double vs a very good UConn team, and a good inside game. He then tosses up an 0-fer (tho he did get 2 rebs) against an inferior Wisconsin team. How does that happen? I like LT but his inability to consistently produce, even if at a medium level, is frustrating. Perhaps his struggles are psychological?

[superdave]

You hear a lot of times people talk about how the game "slows down" for a player. They get used to the size and speed and strength at the college level and start making better decisions, relaxing a lot more etc.

Well, for Lance the game never slowed down. Even the UConn game last week, his big plays were all hustle plays that he made by beating someone to a ball, out-jumping his opponent or getting a tip in.

I can recall only one time in his 4 years where Lance got the ball on the wing androve the lane in a graceful manner. He dunked on this play, pretty spectacularly iirc, last year.

He's a big hustle guy and it works great when focused correctly on rebounding, defending, setting picks. It works poorly when he reaches in, goes over the back or sets a moving pick.

Great kid, great teammate. but at this point we know all his strengths and weaknesses, and all he's going to give us.

So it's probably not useful to overanalyze him at this point. He is who he is!

[BD80]

LT is an excellent defender and there are certain NBA stars who have no desire for their team to have a realistic 5th scoring option.

The Sixers now no longer need a fourth, third or second option!

[CDu]

It's unfortunate but that's just the way it is. I read about K saying that he would play in the NBA someday, which seems hard to believe but he knows better than any of us do.

That's not quite accurate. There was an article in which Coach K said Thomas could play in the NBA, which is a much less strong statement. Coach K may or may not really believe that he will play in the NBA, but that quote may very well have been a motivating ploy for Thomas.

[Classof06]

On one hand, he needs to play significant minutes because he's probably the best pound-for-pound defender on the team. And with the way Duke plays defense, there's nothing more valuable than a player who can guard multiple positions. Lance can just about guard all five.

On the other hand, the way Miles Plumlee is playing combined with what should be the emergence of Mason, I think Thomas' minutes will naturally have to dwindle. Mason was tabbed a starter by Krzyzewski in the preseason and when he gets back up to speed, a starter he will be. Between Miles and Lance, one will have to sit and I'd sit Lance.

Bottom line, Lance is a glue guy. A pretty good one at that, but no more.

[darthur]

LT is an excellent defender and there are certain NBA stars who have no desire for their team to have a realistic 5th scoring option.

Yes, but they need the 5th player to at least keep his defender honest. Unless the defensive specialist in question happens to be a bona-fide NBA center, this almost always means the player can drain wide open 3s, which Lance has not shown the ability to do up until now.

[Kedsy]

Yes, but they need the 5th player to at least keep his defender honest. Unless the defensive specialist in question happens to be a bona-fide NBA center, this almost always means the player can drain wide open 3s, which Lance has not shown the ability to do up until now.

I don't think anybody ever guarded Bruce Bowen. Not saying Lance is Bruce Bowen, just sayin'.

[Bob Green]

He put up a double double vs a very good UConn team, and a good inside game. He then tosses up an 0-fer (tho he did get 2 rebs) against an inferior Wisconsin team. How does that happen?

After watching both teams against Duke, I wouldn't classify Wisconsin as inferior. Wisconsin would beat UConn like a drum.

I do agree with your main point that LT is inconsistent.

[darthur]

I don't think anybody ever guarded Bruce Bowen. Not saying Lance is Bruce Bowen, just sayin'.

Bowen is a career 39% 3-point shooter. He's a perfect example of a defensive specialist that isn't going to create his own shot but still keeps his defender honest. So is Battier.

[Tim1515]

Wisconsin couldn't miss anything early. Not only did that give them a ton of confidence but it made Duke play them tighter and they took advantage by driving and hitting shots.

IMO...if we play Wisconsin 10 times...we win 8. Last night they were just better.

[Jeffrey]

Yes, but they need the 5th player to at least keep his defender honest. Unless the defensive specialist in question happens to be a bona-fide NBA center, this almost always means the player can drain wide open 3s, which Lance has not shown the ability to do up until now.

Agreed. If a player cannot hit wide open shots, then they should not be playing in the NBA. I think Lance could develop this part of his game to an acceptable level.

[SupaDave]

Bowen is a career 39% 3-point shooter. He's a perfect example of a defensive specialist that isn't going to create his own shot but still keeps his defender honest. So is Battier.

Battier can't create his own shot? I think you're going a bit far there.

[darthur]

Battier can't create his own shot? I think you're going a bit far there.

I was talking about the NBA in reference to what currently separates Lance from most NBA defensive specialists. And regardless of whether Battier can or can't create his own shot at that level, he doesn't. He sits on the 3-point line and shoots a 3 if his man leaves him to double-team someone else. An unglamorous role for sure on offense, but a useful one nonetheless when almost every team has one or more players that simply cannot be defended 1 on 1.

PS: No knock here on Lance. The vast majority of NBA rookies need to do serious work on their open jump shots as soon as they start. Almost everybody in the NBA is expected to hit open jump shots from almost anywhere at a high percentage, and most people in college cannot do that.

[hq2]

I agree with above. The main problem with Lance is that he never developed a decent mid range jumper. Someone 6-8 with O.K. hops is usually going to get his share of garbage buckets in the college game, but unless he's really strong, he won't be a good low post player. In addition, his ball handling isn't all that great, which means he isn't good at driving around a number of the big men he usually guards. Lance never really developed the skills to be a good offensive college 3. Well, too late for that now. Hope he does the best he can with the minutes he'll get.

[Jeffrey]

The vast majority of NBA rookies need to do serious work on their open jump shots as soon as they start. Almost everybody in the NBA is expected to hit open jump shots from almost anywhere at a high percentage, and most people in college cannot do that.

Agreed. Do you share my opinion that Lance could develop this part of his game to an acceptable level?

[Troublemaker]

There was an article in which Coach K said Thomas could play in the NBA, which is a much less strong statement.

Exactly. Technically, just about anything could happen to anybody. I can't believe how much attention that quote has gotten. Not only does it continue to morph -- by the end of the season, everyone will think Coach K predicted Lance to be better than Larry Bird -- it was also probably a completely throwaway, meaningless line among dozens in yet another run-of-the-mill interview with the media. Coachspeak.

[darthur]

Agreed. Do you share my opinion that Lance could develop this part of his game to an acceptable level?

Yeah. I just hope he's given the chance to do so. Unfortunately, that much will probably boil down to a lot of dumb luck.

[Jeffrey]

-- it was also probably a completely throwaway, meaningless line among dozens in yet another run-of-the-mill interview with the media.

Disagree. IMO, most of K's comments have definite meaning and purpose.

[Jeffrey]

Yeah. I just hope he's given the chance to do so.

Agreed. IMO, K's comment slightly increases the chance.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Let's be realistic and tell it like it is...

He doesn't handle the ball very well, or shoot it particularly well, and can't put it on the floor to advance it as a SF.

He's too light to play in the post against big time C's and PF's at the high division 1 level, even if he had reasonable low post scoring moves, which he doesn't.

He's a "tweener" with limited court awareness.

Other than that he's a nice college player who helps his team. A pesky defender, who has some quickness, toughness, and a big heart to play hard. He's a good team mate, and quality student by all accounts. A credit to the school and the program.

As for coach K's comment on the possibility of Lance in the NBA...lets just say its admirable he supports his players.

[miramar]

I envisioned Lance being a John Smith-type player at Duke - a versatile big man who had the agility to defend all over the court and score in various ways -- not a prolific scorer, but someone who could hit a 15 footer, finish inside and get putbacks.

Good point. For some reason we don't seem to recall guys like Smith (or his teammate Kevin Strickland) as much as we should.

[Kedsy]

Bowen is a career 39% 3-point shooter. He's a perfect example of a defensive specialist that isn't going to create his own shot but still keeps his defender honest. So is Battier.

Bowen's first two years he shot 34% and 27%. When he started playing nobody bothered to defend him. He grew into the role as he got older (who's to say Lance couldn't do the same) but whenever I watched San Antonio (which admittedly wasn't much) his defender almost always laid off him until he hit a couple.

[duke09hms]

Let's be realistic and tell it like it is...

He doesn't handle the ball very well, or shoot it particularly well, and can't put it on the floor to advance it as a SF.

He's too light to play in the post against big time C's and PF's at the high division 1 level, even if he had reasonable low post scoring moves, which he doesn't.

He's a "tweener" with limited court awareness.

Other than that he's a nice college player who helps his team. A pesky defender, who has some quickness, toughness, and a big heart to play hard. He's a good team mate, and quality student by all accounts. A credit to the school and the program.

As for coach K's comment on the possibility of Lance in the NBA...lets just say its admirable he supports his players.

I probably appreciate Wheat's posts more than anyone else on the board because out of all of us, especially the bright-eyed optimists here, he tells it like it is. Very objective and unbiased or as much as can be expected.

The fact that this thread is titled "The Development of Lance Thomas" when it is his senior year is very unfortunate. While of course all players have room to improve, much more can not be reasonably expected out of LT, especially when he has started at least 2 full seasons for Duke and still lacks any offensive game. In his senior year.

He is what he is, a high-energy player who will have one or two great games a year (the UNC win two years ago, UConn game last week) that tease us with the idea that something has changed. He is a good defender who plays his heart out, but on a complete Duke team that plays offense 5 on 5, there is no way he should be starting.

I hope to see more Mason and a little more Kelly - those guys are the future of this season.

[sagegrouse]

As for coach K's comment on the possibility of Lance in the NBA...lets just say its admirable he supports his players.

Or, it is insightful to see how he goes about motivating his players.:)

sagegrouse

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Or, it is insightful to see how he goes about motivating his players.:)

sagegrouse

In my best Jon Lovitz voice..."yea,that's the ticket" ;)

[verga]

i saw Lance play in the TOC when he was in hs. He had a big motor, played hard and. Well that was all he did, he is a piece of the puzzle. We just don't have the other pieces, because of that you get to see the real Lance. He was simply overrated coming out of hs, he just has no particular skill set. His shot is broken and cannot be fixed (jmo) and he has no feeling for the game. He is a great kid who trys hard, lets just be happy with that.

[Kedsy]

The fact that this thread is titled "The Development of Lance Thomas" when it is his senior year is very unfortunate.

Actually, every time I see the title of this thread I think we must be talking about a chick flick on the Lifetime channel.

[Edouble]

In my best Jon Lovitz voice..."yea,that's the ticket" ;)

Ha ha ha...

Although we don't play "positions", in order to keep from putting a stranglehold on anyone's development, I think Lance might benefit from such structure. Too little, too late at this point, I suppose.

[Saratoga2]

Let's be realistic and tell it like it is...

He doesn't handle the ball very well, or shoot it particularly well, and can't put it on the floor to advance it as a SF.

He's too light to play in the post against big time C's and PF's at the high division 1 level, even if he had reasonable low post scoring moves, which he doesn't.

He's a "tweener" with limited court awareness.

Other than that he's a nice college player who helps his team. A pesky defender, who has some quickness, toughness, and a big heart to play hard. He's a good team mate, and quality student by all accounts. A credit to the school and the program.



As for coach K's comment on the possibility of Lance in the NBA...lets just say its admirable he supports his players.

It is best just to be honest about things and your synopsis agrees with what I have seen. As far as further development, if in nearly 4 years of intense coaching, a player hasn't developed sufficiently, it is unlikely to happen in the remaining few months or in the future either. Why coach K says something kuje he did is hard to fathom.

[SupaDave]

I understand some of you being non-believers in Lance's STYLE of play but ever since Shavlik Randolph has stuck in the pros I've learned to put a little more credence into Coach K's words. He sees things we don't and he also has a few more connections than us.

Ironically, I think the SPEED of the NBA game may actually be to Lance's advantage. He'd make a decent NBA three off the bench and he reminds me a lot of Joakim Noah and Tyrus Thomas without the height. The NBA always seems to have a place for folks that want to play defense and Lance certainly gets up and down the floor. No reason why he can't be a Renaldo Balkman...

Contrary to popular belief the NBA is NOT a place full of polished games and acrobatic dunks. It's a game of fast breaks, pick and rolls, high screens, and one on one match-ups. Certain players are made for it and others with all the skill in the world are not (think Adam Morrison here).

[Wander]

I understand some of you being non-believers in Lance's STYLE of play but ever since Shavlik Randolph has stuck in the pros I've learned to put a little more credence into Coach K's words. He sees things we don't and he also has a few more connections than us.

Ironically, I think the SPEED of the NBA game may actually be to Lance's advantage. He'd make a decent NBA three off the bench and he reminds me a lot of Joakim Noah and Tyrus Thomas without the height. The NBA always seems to have a place for folks that want to play defense and Lance certainly gets up and down the floor. No reason why he can't be a Renaldo Balkman...

Shav is the exception. He's not the rule. You wouldn't pick every 11 seed to go to the Final Four in your brackets just because George Mason proved that it was technically possible, would you?

Lance has a role on this team because he's versatile and pretty good on defense at the college level. But your comparisons for the NBA are absolutely terrible, even after adjusting for height. Joakim Noah had an offensive game that was 1000 times better than Lance's and was much better on defense too, and Tyrus Thomas is 1000 times more athletic than Lance. Seriously, it's not close in either case.

[feldspar]

He'd make a decent NBA three off the bench and he reminds me a lot of Joakim Noah and Tyrus Thomas without the height.
Interesting. No knock on Lance, but he in no way reminds me of either of these two players.

[CDu]

Shav is the exception. He's not the rule. You wouldn't pick every 11 seed to go to the Final Four in your brackets just because George Mason proved that it was technically possible, would you?

Lance has a role on this team because he's versatile and pretty good on defense at the college level. But your comparisons for the NBA are absolutely terrible, even after adjusting for height. Joakim Noah had an offensive game that was 1000 times better than Lance's and was much better on defense too, and Tyrus Thomas is 1000 times more athletic than Lance. Seriously, it's not close in either case.

There's quite a bit of hyperbole there, but I agree with your general points. Identifying the rare case in which a guy who didn't have a huge college career makes it to the pros is not reason to suggest that someone else will make it.

As for the comparisons, I also agree that they aren't very valid, mainly because Noah is a PF/C and is a VERY good rebounder and post defender, and because Thomas is just so freakishly athletic for a PF. Both were MUCH bigger factors defensively than Thomas, who merely looks good at times but rarely does he look game-changing like those other two.

I think it's highly unlikely Thomas lands any meaningful role in the NBA. I won't say it's impossible, because strange things can happen. My only beef is with the folks that are taking the statement that Coach K thinks Thomas could play in the NBA and turning it into Coach K thinks Thomas will play in the NBA.

[SupaDave]

Interesting. No knock on Lance, but he in no way reminds me of either of these two players.

Those guys are hustle guys and if you can't see that then you haven't watched them. Tyrus came into the league with absolutely no post moves to speak of and was about as raw as they get. I definitely wouldn't say that he is 1000 times more athletic than Lance.

[Wander]

Those guys are hustle guys and if you can't see that then you haven't watched them. Tyrus came into the league with absolutely no post moves to speak of and was about as raw as they get. I definitely wouldn't say that he is 1000 times more athletic than Lance.

They're hustle guys? That's your point of comparison? In that case, Tyler Hansbrough, Greg Paulus, Vince Oghobasse, and myself all remind me of Joakim Noah. We're all hustle guys.

[CDu]

Those guys are hustle guys and if you can't see that then you haven't watched them. Tyrus came into the league with absolutely no post moves to speak of and was about as raw as they get. I definitely wouldn't say that he is 1000 times more athletic than Lance.

They're all hustle guys, but you're overlooking some VERY substantive differences. Noah plays PF/C, so the offensive bar is a lot lower. He's also much better defensively and as a rebounder than Lance Thomas. Tyrus Thomas is, in fact, MUCH more athletic than Lance Thomas. He was a game changing shotblocker with his leaping ability. Lance Thomas is a pretty good athlete, but he's not nearly in the same class. Nor has he shown the same ability to consistently impact the game defensively like Thomas did. And again, he plays a different position than Tyrus Thomas. Being a "hustle guy" is a pretty broad term, and it really understates the value that those two also bring.

[SupaDave]

Shav is the exception. He's not the rule. You wouldn't pick every 11 seed to go to the Final Four in your brackets just because George Mason proved that it was technically possible, would you?

Lance has a role on this team because he's versatile and pretty good on defense at the college level. But your comparisons for the NBA are absolutely terrible, even after adjusting for height. Joakim Noah had an offensive game that was 1000 times better than Lance's and was much better on defense too, and Tyrus Thomas is 1000 times more athletic than Lance. Seriously, it's not close in either case.

But what about guys like Renaldo (who I think is more apt)? There are plenty of guys who weren't high on radars or even great college players that have snuck on to NBA rosters. I'm not predicting that Lance will be drafted or anything of the sort but I don't think it's unfounded that a team might have a role for a guy like him.

[WeepingThomasHill]

As much as I hated Noah and Ty Thomas, they were both great college players that were more than just hustle. Thomas averaged 12 and 9 during his sole college season and Noah averaged 12 and 8 during his final year. Thomas won't sniff those numbers at Duke. Its just not a real comparison at all.

[SupaDave]

They're hustle guys? That's your point of comparison? In that case, Tyler Hansbrough, Greg Paulus, Vince Oghobasse, and myself all remind me of Joakim Noah. We're all hustle guys.

lmao!!! But we are talking about defensive prowess here. I'll take Tyler on my team any day - probably wouldn't take you...

[feldspar]

Those guys are hustle guys and if you can't see that then you haven't watched them. Tyrus came into the league with absolutely no post moves to speak of and was about as raw as they get. I definitely wouldn't say that he is 1000 times more athletic than Lance.

Do you legitimately believe that Lance Thomas could defend 2006 JJ Redick and hold him to 11 points on 3-for-18 shooting?

I'm sorry, but I don't.

[SupaDave]

As much as I hated Noah and Ty Thomas, they were both great college players that were more than just hustle. Thomas averaged 12 and 9 during his sole college season and Noah averaged 12 and 8 during his final year. Thomas won't sniff those numbers at Duke. Its just not a real comparison at all.

Thomas was fortunate in that he had Big Baby Davis in the middle taking up space as well - allowing him to freelance with his excellent leaping and shot blocking skills.

[SupaDave]

Do you legitimately believe that Lance Thomas could defend 2006 JJ Redick and hold him to 11 points on 3-for-18 shooting?

I'm sorry, but I don't.

I guess we'll never find out hunh?

[arnie]

I guess we'll never find out hunh?

And we won't see Lance guard a 2010 JJ Redick either; cause JJ plays in the NBA.

[Wander]

Noah was a Final Four MVP on one of the best teams of the decade. Tyrus was taken, what, like 5th in the NBA draft? Aside from being high energy guys, they don't really have anything in common with Lance - as CDu pointed out, they don't even play the same position! Let's just all admit you made a mistake mentioning Joakim Noah and Tyrus Thomas and move on.

Renaldo does make some sense to me though. He was a defensive oriented forward who got his points mostly based on hustle rather than being a skilled scorer. He was a better college player than Lance (I'm pretty sure he made a couple of All-SEC teams during his time there), but I won't argue the comparison from a style point of view. It's probably a good one.

BTW, feldspar, wasn't it some guy named Temple who defended JJ that game? Not Tyrus Thomas. I think.

[feldspar]

BTW, feldspar, wasn't it some guy named Temple who defended JJ that game? Not Tyrus Thomas. I think.

Garrett Temple shared some of the load, but the bulk of it was Thomas. I remember because I was rooting hard against him in the 2006 NBA Draft.

[jv001]

I look at D-Marc & McRoberts and that's enough to tell me that Lance probably will not have a roster spot on an NBA team next year. I know Josh is currently on the Pacer roster, but look what it's taken for him to get there. And his playing time is really low. Then I see Shelden on the Celtics getting little minutes. Lance is not as good a defensive player as these guys. Coach K was trying to give Lance some confidence as get into the tougher games. At least that's my opinion. Go Duke!

[Channing]

But what about guys like Renaldo (who I think is more apt)? There are plenty of guys who weren't high on radars or even great college players that have snuck on to NBA rosters. I'm not predicting that Lance will be drafted or anything of the sort but I don't think it's unfounded that a team might have a role for a guy like him.

Renaldo Balkman was a far superior college player to LT. He had good hands and would often score double figures, usually 15+ ppg (albeit for a mediocre South Carolina team). He had a legitimate offensive game.

He also happens to be more filled out than Lance and was a better post defender than Lance.

As for the Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah comparison, I assume that was a spur of the moment joke, as those guys were both lotto picks (at least Thomas was, I think Noah was as well).

[Devilsfan]

Lance reminds me more on the court of a better Tony Moore, or a much better Casey Sanders, etc. than the players mentioned above. It's probably the intangibles that we can't see off the court, in practice and in the locker room that make him so valuable to this team. Those are in many cases just as important.

[gumbomoop]

Let's be realistic and tell it like it is...

He doesn't handle the ball very well, or shoot it particularly well, and can't put it on the floor to advance it as a SF.

He's too light to play in the post against big time C's and PF's at the high division 1 level, even if he had reasonable low post scoring moves, which he doesn't.

He's a "tweener" with limited court awareness.

Other than that he's a nice college player who helps his team. A pesky defender, who has some quickness, toughness, and a big heart to play hard. He's a good team mate, and quality student by all accounts. A credit to the school and the program.

As for coach K's comment on the possibility of Lance in the NBA...lets just say its admirable he supports his players.

As I suspect is the case with virtually every reader of these boards, I subscribe to every word of Wheat's post here, having reluctantly made a few of them myself on various threads. The emphasis is on being realistic, and usually that means admitting deficiencies; W lists LT's pretty thoroughly, leaving out the one that's always struck me: the energy is way too often chaotic rather than purposeful and disciplined. For example LT runs wrong - way too much arm/leg pumping, doesn't look efficient.

But fair's fair, so let me add to W's fifth, more positive and also every-word-accurate paragraph. Although maddeningly inconsistent, LT can be expected to contribute meaningfully more often than not. We all hope to see more of the "11/11 UConn LT," but that would be a real surprise. So, as LT gradually loses some minutes to MP2, we should expect him to be a strong, often key, defender, occasional shot blocker, and true senior leader. He'll probably become our "official" 6th man, and gather some deserved credit and admiration in that role, if he is anywhere near the glue-guy DMc was last year.

Kudos to Wheat and all posters for realistic analysis of a good kid who's trying to become the best player he can be, while remaining the fine teammate he so obviously is.

[SupaDave]

I understand some of you being non-believers in Lance's STYLE of play but ever since Shavlik Randolph has stuck in the pros I've learned to put a little more credence into Coach K's words. He sees things we don't and he also has a few more connections than us.

Ironically, I think the SPEED of the NBA game may actually be to Lance's advantage. He'd make a decent NBA three off the bench and he reminds me a lot of Joakim Noah and Tyrus Thomas without the height. The NBA always seems to have a place for folks that want to play defense and Lance certainly gets up and down the floor. No reason why he can't be a Renaldo Balkman...

Contrary to popular belief the NBA is NOT a place full of polished games and acrobatic dunks. It's a game of fast breaks, pick and rolls, high screens, and one on one match-ups. Certain players are made for it and others with all the skill in the world are not (think Adam Morrison here).

It couldn't happen they said! This is just your friendly reminder who was right about this... Never doubt the Supa...

Supa "Always believed in Lance" Dave...

[NSDukeFan]

It couldn't happen they said! This is just your friendly reminder who was right about this... Never doubt the Supa...

Supa "Always believed in Lance" Dave...

Even if Supa claims last year’s Celtics wouldn’t win 40 games?

[Furniture]

Let's be realistic and tell it like it is...

He doesn't handle the ball very well, or shoot it particularly well, and can't put it on the floor to advance it as a SF.

He's too light to play in the post against big time C's and PF's at the high division 1 level, even if he had reasonable low post scoring moves, which he doesn't.

He's a "tweener" with limited court awareness.

Other than that he's a nice college player who helps his team. A pesky defender, who has some quickness, toughness, and a big heart to play hard. He's a good team mate, and quality student by all accounts. A credit to the school and the program.

As for coach K's comment on the possibility of Lance in the NBA...lets just say its admirable he supports his players.

This is my favourite......

[timmy c]

Let's be realistic and tell it like it is...

As for coach K's comment on the possibility of Lance in the NBA...lets just say its admirable he supports his players.


This is my favourite...

In hindsight, we can now be realistic and tell it like it happened...

As for wheat's comment on the possibility of lance in the NBA...lets just say it's admirable how he disregards coach K's comments.

[SupaDave]

Even if Supa claims last year’s Celtics wouldn’t win 40 games?

Hey, Kyrie’s annual injury came a little later than I thought.

And Tatum adjusted to the NBA WAY faster than we could have imagined (faster than he did at Duke for sure).

[NSDukeFan]

Hey, Kyrie’s annual injury came a little later than I thought.

And Tatum adjusted to the NBA WAY faster than we could have imagined (faster than he did at Duke for sure).

Hayward also got hurt 5 minutes into the season.

[UrinalCake]

It couldn't happen they said! This is just your friendly reminder who was right about this... Never doubt the Supa...

Supa "Always believed in Lance" Dave...

I'm not sure what's more amazing - your prediction or the fact that you resurrected a thread from NINE YEARS ago and the conversation just picked up like it never left. Kudos for calling out Lance's NBA potential. You and that jewelry store in NY were probably the only two people in the world who felt he had an NBA future (too soon?)

[cato]

You and that jewelry store in NY were probably the only two people in the world who felt he had an NBA future (too soon?)

Too soon? No way. Lance’s jewelry is my favorite topic to bring up when talking to a Carolina fan. Well, that and the secret slush fund that Duke fans pay into so that we can make sure Duke continues to get all the calls. And players.

[NSDukeFan]

Too soon? No way. Lance’s jewelry is my favorite topic to bring up when talking to a Carolina fan. Well, that and the secret slush fund that Duke fans pay into so that we can make sure Duke continues to get all the calls. And players.

That slush fund is supposed to be secret? Oh, I have happily paid into that for years.

[SupaDave]

That slush fund is supposed to be secret? Oh, I have happily paid into that for years.

Wait - you mean Coach K isn't paying them? Wait till I tell my UNC friends this!!!

[NSDukeFan]

Wait - you mean Coach K isn't paying them? Wait till I tell my UNC friends this!!!

They wouldn’t believe it anyway.