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View Full Version : MBB: St. John's @ Duke pre-game and in-game thread



Bob Green
12-03-2009, 02:09 AM
Moving forward, Coach K has been known to shake things up after a loss so I'm wondering if Andre Dawkins has shot his way into the starting line-up or if some other surprise awaits us when the team takes the court against the St. John's Red Storm. Duke should be playing with a bit of a chip on their shoulder and they will need to be as the Red Storm are an experienced team and the game on Saturday will be a lot closer than the ones the past several years.

sagegrouse
12-03-2009, 06:44 AM
Moving forward, Coach K has been known to shake things up after a loss so I'm wondering if Andre Dawkins has shot his way into the starting line-up or if some other surprise awaits us when the team takes the court against the St. John's Red Storm. Duke should be playing with a bit of a chip on their shoulder and they will need to be as the Red Storm are an experienced team and the game on Saturday will be a lot closer than the ones the past several years.

I don't know whether a major shakeup is in order. I thought Scheyer's quote about Wisconsin wanting it more was dead on target. Duke came off an emotional exhilarating win over UConn and suffered a serious letdown.

In terms of starters and minutes, I suspect that LT and Zoubs didn't help their cause very much with really clumsy play against Badgers who were a bit clumsy themselves: "Drop the ball in the basket, Brian!" "Make the pass, Lance!" I bet we see more of Mason in the St. Johns game.

Dawkins is already the first guy off the bench. I hope he isn't added to the starting lineup in place of a big guy -- the DBR would absolutely detonate if Duke went small in the first week of December. Imagine: we start Miles, Kyle, Jon, Nolan and Andre; that makes our bench LT, Zoubs, Mason, Kelly and Czyz. We would have the tallest bench in the universe, averaging 6-9 1/2.

sagegrouse

Saratoga2
12-03-2009, 06:47 AM
Our weaknesses were exposed against ASU and again against W. The play of our bigs was a weak area with Zoubek and Thomas unable to contribute anything offensively.

Our best teams include Miles at the big. Mason offers some hope as he improves. If we use a high low game it has to be either with Kelly playing high or perhaps Mason, if he can handle it. The top of the key man needs to be able to hit the open shot from there.

The team needs to incorporate Dawkins shooting ability into the game plan and go to him early and often. If he can stretch defenses, then Smith and Scheyer may also get more open looks.

When Zoubek is in the game, we need to think about zone defense. His mobility is better suited to the zone in my opinion.

Thomas will get playing time due to his man defensive abilities. His PT should not reflect that of a starter as he is one dimensional.

Looks like the best team right now includes Miles, Singler, Scheyer, Smith and Dawkins. Key subs will include Mason and I would advocate Kelly. Thomas has his place and Zoubek can give good minutes against teams with comparable centers.

KShip21
12-03-2009, 07:52 AM
As much as I love the kid, I don't think inserting him into the starting lineup right now is a good move at all.

1) he is obviously comfortable being the first guy off the bench and 7 games into his college career I wouldn't want anything to effect his comfort level. 2) we can't take out a big this early in the season, so does he take Nolan's spot? If so, what does that do to Nolan's confidence as he is slowly breaking through to be that player we know he can be. 3) if he does take a big's spot, that moves Kyle back to the 4 which K would like to avoid for the most part. I think we saw last night, he is more effective at the 3.

If there is lineup change, I think (although it wouldn't be a shock) Mason for Lance. Start getting him into more of a rythm.

Also, anyone notice that at least the last few years, we always go into the SJ game after a loss. The only people as mad at the loss as we are are the SJ team and fans...Maybe we can take it out on them again...

whereinthehellami
12-03-2009, 08:09 AM
I still can't believe how ineffective Brian and Lance were in the Wisconsin game. These guys are seniors and looked lost in the game. Neither of them have any confidence.

Devilsfan
12-03-2009, 08:36 AM
I agree on the need for Lance to step it up and I believe he can. Zoub on the other hand is playing as good as he can, imo. He is definitely trying.

SilkyJ
12-03-2009, 08:51 AM
I agree on the need for Lance to step it up and I believe he can. Zoub on the other hand is playing as good as he can, imo. He is definitely trying.

Both are trying and both are about as effective as they can be. They are seniors, so we should expect smarter decisions from them, but for the 1 billionth time: they are known commodities, don't expect any crazy jump in performance/production. Lance has played in ~90-100 games and started ~60-70 games so far in his career so he's not going to suddenly start performing better than he did in his previous 100 games. Zoubs will never be effective against mobile bigs who like to float out.

We will reach out full potential when the plumlees are both playing together and playing well. That's also when we will be at our most athletic.

davekay1971
12-03-2009, 08:58 AM
We will reach out full potential when the plumlees are both playing together and playing well. That's also when we will be at our most athletic.

The development of the Plumlees at the 4 and 5 over the course of this season is one of the most exciting aspects of this team, imho. Look forward to seeing the next step of that on Saturday.

SMO
12-03-2009, 10:41 AM
I still can't believe how ineffective Brian and Lance were in the Wisconsin game. These guys are seniors and looked lost in the game. Neither of them have any confidence.

I'm with you. It looked to me like Zoubs was making freshman mistakes as a senior. Lance looked OK, but not great. I'd love to see both elevate their games.

SMO
12-03-2009, 10:46 AM
Moving forward, Coach K has been known to shake things up after a loss so I'm wondering if Andre Dawkins has shot his way into the starting line-up or if some other surprise awaits us when the team takes the court against the St. John's Red Storm. Duke should be playing with a bit of a chip on their shoulder and they will need to be as the Red Storm are an experienced team and the game on Saturday will be a lot closer than the ones the past several years.

I like Dre off the bench for now. I think it's too early to shock guys with a lineup change, but you never know. If they had played the 2nd half the same way they did in the 1st half, then maybe they would need a 'wake-up call'.

jv001
12-03-2009, 11:00 AM
Coach K has inserted someone into the starting lineup after a lackluster game based on practice results. And that has usually come from the defensive part of the game. If someone stands out in practice these next few days, that person may earn a starting spot. Go Duke!

SMO
12-03-2009, 03:50 PM
Let's bump this up and get ready for the next game. Anyone know anything meaningful about St. John's team this year?

KShip21
12-03-2009, 04:18 PM
Let's bump this up and get ready for the next game. Anyone know anything meaningful about St. John's team this year?

They're undefeated. Decent wins against Siena and Temple. Close wins over St. Bony and Stoney Brook. Anthony Mason Jr (arguably their best player) is out for another couple games. They have two players averaging double figures. They are sort of all over the place, but playing well for the most part. 3rd straight year they get Duke after a loss. I'm sure they aren't too happy about last night's game either.

BlueintheFace
12-03-2009, 04:26 PM
I would love to see TONS of touches for the Plumlees this game. That is my #1 wish going in.

Johnny Jungle
12-03-2009, 05:00 PM
Seems so early to be back here again this year. Just wanted to share our pre-game column with you again. Give a little insight to what we think about Duke as well as some information on St. John's too.


Calm Before the Storm: Runnin' with the Devils (http://johnnyjungle.com/calm-before-the-storm/duke120509/)

Also we always like to look at what the opposition is saying. So here is a link to our forum (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum) as well.

Johnny Jungle
12-03-2009, 05:04 PM
There are a ton of interesting matchups in this game. Our front court is strong and.....wait for it.....athletic. They could pose problems but then again your guys are probably more disciplined. I'm worried how we react to pump fakes and Duke is sure to throw plenty of them.

The guards should pressure each other plenty both ways. Turnovers will play a big role for each team. I think a great percentage of points will come off TO's

G man
12-03-2009, 05:42 PM
I have to say I don't know much about the Storm, but from the way the information was laid out it appeared as the Storm have one good weapon. If this is the case the score will not be as close as the prediction indicated. At home after a loss we will be highly motivated. The worst thing to happen to St. John was a Duke loss to Wisconsin. I feel like we will win by 15. That being said it is college basketball and anything can happen.

RelativeWays
12-03-2009, 06:19 PM
I've always measured a Duke team's potential in any given year by how they follow up with a a loss, particularly if its high profile, embarrassing, or just plain bad. Great Duke teams always seemed to pin back their ears and ruin their opponent after a loss. The ones that are lacking that certain something, quite frankly, do not. I can think of a couple of examples.

In 2001, UMD flat out embarrassed Duke, on K's birthday if memory serves. It was not pretty. Despite what all the pundits insisted, UNC never knew what hit them has the Devils ran the holes off the schnoze center.

In 2006, Duke suffered one of the more embarrassing losses to FSU in JJ's senior season. In what some say was a cowardly move, K pulled all the starters for the last minute and put in the scrubs so the starters wouldn't risk injury when the fans stormed the court. It was a low point of the season, but not the lowest.
That would be the very next game as the inexperienced heels showed up Duke in the second half, scoring at will the last 5 minutes. I was....very angry, and I also knew that this team honestly did not have the heart to win a national championship.

I'm sure people will hunt the various statistics from previous Duke seasons to try to prove this theory wrong. Don't bother. Every season's success is the result of all games played, but what defines those teams is how they react to adversity and how much pride the put in their team. I never seen any evidence to the contrary.

roywhite
12-03-2009, 07:19 PM
DJ Kennedy, small forward for St. John's scored 20 against Duke in last year's game at MSG. I'll be curious to see whether Duke's size inside gives him some trouble. Kennedy was a high school teammate of DeJuan Blair, from Pitt, who also played well against Duke.

SMO
12-04-2009, 10:41 AM
Regardless of what St. John's does, I expect an EXTREMELY intense first 5-10 minutes of defense from Duke. I would suspect the biggest challenge might be avoiding overly aggressive play and foul trouble in the opening half.

ReformedAggie
12-04-2009, 11:37 AM
I'm probably crazy, because I don't expect Duke to win every time. I like to see their growth and improvement. I like to watch the kids get better as K takes aim on the post-season. Whatever the score, if Duke plays as well as it can at this point in time, it will be a good game for me.

diveonthefloor
12-04-2009, 03:07 PM
Does anyone know when final exams will begin?

Tappan Zee Devil
12-04-2009, 05:34 PM
Does anyone know when final exams will begin?

The academic calendar is certainly available at the University's web site

Johnny Jungle
12-04-2009, 06:40 PM
Jeez are you guys seriously that disinterested in the game that you're talking about final exams?

OldSchool
12-04-2009, 07:00 PM
Moving forward, Coach K has been known to shake things up after a loss so I'm wondering if Andre Dawkins has shot his way into the starting line-up

I would be very surprised if Andre starts, but I would expect him to get solid minutes.

The interesting thing to me is to see if K starts using design-play screens specifically for Andre's shot.

Typically, Andre gets his open shots floating around the perimeter and hoping for a kick-out or in transition, rather than from plays designed for him.

My sense is that K doesn't want to put much pressure on Andre so early into his career. Smokin' Dre was on fire against Wisconsin in the latter stages of the game, but K preferred to put the ball, and the outcome of the game, in the hands of the veteran Kyle at the critical moment instead of setting Andre up for a jump shot.

I think K may well dust off some of those double-screen plays for JJ and we will start to see some play-calling specifically for Andre to a limited extent.

BlueintheFace
12-04-2009, 07:02 PM
Jeez are you guys seriously that disinterested in the game that you're talking about final exams?

I think the inquiry has to do with when the players will be practicing a lot less and focusing on academics a lot more.

BlueintheFace
12-04-2009, 07:04 PM
Andre is not starting consistently unless Nolan is sitting. I don't see it happening.

I very badly want to see our post players in action this game, more specifically, the Plumlees together.

Indoor66
12-04-2009, 07:10 PM
Jeez are you guys seriously that disinterested in the game that you're talking about final exams?

It's good to see you Johnny. I know it is St. John's time when you post. Thanks for returning.

Johnny Jungle
12-04-2009, 07:16 PM
It's good to see you Johnny. I know it is St. John's time when you post. Thanks for returning.

Consider it an early Christmas present

Duke_Blue_Devil
12-04-2009, 09:21 PM
I would love to see TONS of touches for the Plumlees this game. That is my #1 wish going in.

I can't agree more. Use these games to build some confidence.
Go Duke!
Go Kentucky! Just for tomorrow.

diveonthefloor
12-04-2009, 10:00 PM
I think the inquiry has to do with when the players will be practicing a lot less and focusing on academics a lot more.

You're right, that was the point....Turns out finals start this Tuesday.

I hope the guys are focused enough for a great game tomorrow before they have to shut it down for finals.

diveonthefloor
12-04-2009, 10:02 PM
I can't agree more. Use these games to build some confidence.
Go Duke!
Go Kentucky! Just for tomorrow.

Is there any way they BOTH could lose? It's hard for me to root for Cali-slimy against ANYONE, even the holes!

gep
12-04-2009, 10:14 PM
Is there any way they BOTH could lose?

I've thought about this... I've got other teams that I don't ever want to see win, so these games are simply hard to watch. With that said, the game could be cancelled (for whatever reason... fill in the blank), the game could be forfeited by both teams (again, for whatever reason... fill in the blank). Then, no one wins... no one gets a W, but no one gets an L either:rolleyes:

sandinmyshoes
12-05-2009, 09:45 AM
We should be able to overpower St. Johns in the paint, obviously. If John and Nolan can control tempo in the backcourt and protect the ball as a result, we should pull away to an easy win. If St. Johns can disrupt our offensive flow, then it might be tighter than anticipated.

Saratoga2
12-05-2009, 10:31 AM
We should be able to overpower St. Johns in the paint, obviously. If John and Nolan can control tempo in the backcourt and protect the ball as a result, we should pull away to an easy win. If St. Johns can disrupt our offensive flow, then it might be tighter than anticipated.


In the Wisconsin game we certainly didn't overpower anyone in the paint. They outrebounded us slightly and did a much better job of scoring with their bigs.

Miles has ability inside and, as his confidence grows, he can be very solid. Mason is very likely to show improvement. Neither Zoubek or Thomas showed any offense at all against Wisconsin, which was disappointing, particularly after Thomas had a great game against UCONN.

I will be pleased if we outrebound St John, block a few shots and outscore their bigs with our own. I would say we have an advantage with Singler, Scheyer, Smith and Dawkins playing around the perimeter, so the bigs need to at least hold their own.

flyingdutchdevil
12-05-2009, 11:01 AM
I would say we have an advantage with Singler, Scheyer, Smith and Dawkins playing around the perimeter, so the bigs need to at least hold their own.

With that perimeter, wouldn't we have an advantage over all teams that we are facing this year (NCAA tourney not included)? I love our backcourt, and I think that everyone there is extremely important and competent. And I fully agree, our bigs need to at least hold their own. Let's hope that the MPs are the answer!

Kewlswim
12-05-2009, 01:04 PM
I'm with you. It looked to me like Zoubs was making freshman mistakes as a senior. Lance looked OK, but not great. I'd love to see both elevate their games.

Hi,

I just wonder if we, as Duke fans, don't give enough credit to the opponent? Is it possible that the play of Wisconsin in the post made Zoobs play faster, for example, than he would have liked to? This is because they are so good and not that Zoobs has regressed?

Just because Wisconsin (and initially ASU) pointed out our weakness in the post does not mean we won't be better by March. Isn't it good to have things to work on and time to do it? I keep saying, "We are not a finished product."

GO DUKE!

Johnny Jungle
12-05-2009, 01:10 PM
We should be able to overpower St. Johns in the paint, obviously. If John and Nolan can control tempo in the backcourt and protect the ball as a result, we should pull away to an easy win. If St. Johns can disrupt our offensive flow, then it might be tighter than anticipated.

Why is that so obvious? I think St. John's front court is pretty good. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks this as Jeff Goodman rated St. John's one of the top 20 front courts in the country preseason. (http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/10122718/The-country's-top-frontcourts-in-2009-10)

I think Duke's front court is more disciplined but St. John's could pose problems for them.

ChicagoCrazy84
12-05-2009, 01:12 PM
I still can't believe how ineffective Brian and Lance were in the Wisconsin game. These guys are seniors and looked lost in the game. Neither of them have any confidence.


That has been the problem with Lance his whole career. He'll show so much promise in one game and we'll all think he's turned the corner and then he'll be completely invisible the next. He needs to string together some strong performences, starting with today. Mason won't be starting yet and probably won't get 25+ minutes so he has the opportunity!

airowe
12-05-2009, 02:24 PM
Gametime in 5 minutes and you guys are still talking about the last game?!?

Let's.


Go.



Duke.

riverside6
12-05-2009, 02:30 PM
we have live tempo-based stats for the game here:

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHdGame.asp?hSchedule=3674

starters: scheyer, smith, singler, and 2 plumlees

FireOgilvie
12-05-2009, 02:36 PM
It's nice to see Mason starting already.

FireOgilvie
12-05-2009, 02:41 PM
Bilas called Mason the "most talented player" on Duke's roster.

slower
12-05-2009, 02:42 PM
Bilas called Mason the "most talented player" on Duke's roster.

And his broadcast partner referred to Marshall Plumlee as "Madison". Seriously, do some of these guys even WATCH basketball?

dukebsbll14
12-05-2009, 02:45 PM
Just curious, any reason to why the ends of te undergrad section are empty again? Does this have anything to do with the new seating arrangements? Kids studying for exams? Just wanted to know.

FireOgilvie
12-05-2009, 02:51 PM
Just curious, any reason to why the ends of te undergrad section are empty again? Does this have anything to do with the new seating arrangements? Kids studying for exams? Just wanted to know.

I'm guessing both, but probably more because of exams and because St. John's might not be perceived as a very good opponent (which isn't necessarily true).

Good to see Ryan Kelly getting some early minutes. Also, Lance and Zoubek have both scored a couple times so far, which is always a good sign.

Welcome2DaSlopes
12-05-2009, 02:54 PM
Good to see Lance actually show up for this game. Ryan is doing his thing out there, nice to see that.

ChrisP
12-05-2009, 02:59 PM
I mean...he LOOKS like Lance Thomas but..where the #$! has that 15-16 foot jump shot BEEN for 3+ yrs!

Same for Zoubek - he hasn't played a lot yet, but looks a LOT more confident out there.

Welcome2DaSlopes
12-05-2009, 03:08 PM
I want to see some more of mason. Hopefully it's a blowout so we can see more of our freshman and olek.

Tucknut
12-05-2009, 03:20 PM
Bilas called Mason the "most talented player" on Duke's roster.

I think Jay's brain cells are receeding with his hairline.

Good half. Nice job, LT. Nice D by Ryan. Fun game so far!

roywhite
12-05-2009, 03:22 PM
I think Jay's brain cells are receeding with his hairline.

Good half. Nice job, LT. Nice D by Ryan. Fun game so far!

Jay knows hoops and he knows Duke's personnel very well, so such a comment about Mason should not be dismissed. It may take a while for Mason to get into form.

gwwilburn
12-05-2009, 03:23 PM
So far, this supposed "bounce-back" game is going better than last years. Don't get me wrong, St. Johns is a quality team this year, but I think this is at east the third year in a row that we are facing them after a loss or two.

gwwilburn
12-05-2009, 03:25 PM
Jay knows hoops and he knows Duke's personnel very well, so such a comment about Mason should not be dismissed. It may take a while for Mason to get into form.
I am in agreement with this. No analyst that ESPN has seems to me to know more about Duke than Bilas. I know he gets a lot of heat around here for his supposed reluctance to praise Duke, but when he says Duke will run into problems, I'm worried. For instance, on Selection Sunday, he predicted that Nova's guards would carve Duke up in the Sweet Sixteen. But he hasn't predicted any doom today, so that's good.

roywhite
12-05-2009, 03:27 PM
One of the things I like best about this team so far is the ability to block and contest shots around the basket. Singler, Zoubs, Lance, both Plumlees are defending the rim and making it hard to score.

Hermy-own
12-05-2009, 03:28 PM
All of our big men look good. I don't know if this is because they are good, or because we are playing weak competition, which isn't as physical as wisconsin. My favorite play: Mason posting up, missing the shot. St. Johns pulls down the rebound, Miles strips it from them, and puts it through. I love the confidence from both of them.

_Gary
12-05-2009, 03:28 PM
I kinda wonder if Jay meant to say Mason was the most talented "Big" man on Duke's roster, as opposed to the most talented overall.

Indoor66
12-05-2009, 03:28 PM
So far, this supposed "bounce-back" game is going better than last years. Don't get me wrong, St. Johns is a quality team this year, but I think this is at east the third year in a row that we are facing them after a loss or two.

I don't understand your post. St. John's is 6-0 coming into this game.

IBleedBlue
12-05-2009, 03:31 PM
Why doesn't Coach k play his other subs i.e Olek, kelly significant time?
I just watched KY-UNC game and Roy was sending in everyone on his roster including watts and leslie mcdonald.
Good substantial time only adds to these guys development. St.Johns might be a significant game but i do believe k should play our bench more often than the starters. Look at Singler, scheyer and smith. They seem to be playing 40 mins this early in the season. Compare them to the best player at carolina i.e. Ed Davis plays about 29-30 mins a game.

It's a trade off between playing your best players and get all those Ws this early in the season while letting your bench develop during real time games (exclude practice) and get ready for the conference season and post season.

gwwilburn
12-05-2009, 03:33 PM
I don't understand your post. St. John's is 6-0 coming into this game.
I could be wrong, hasn't St. Johns had to play Duke after a loss at least three years in a row? And they are good. They have beaten as many teams in the top 25 as we have, I believe.

ChrisP
12-05-2009, 03:39 PM
Scheyer and Singler have both been HACKED on a couple shots here early in the 2nd half. Hope the refs tighten it up!

slower
12-05-2009, 03:44 PM
Hang on to the ball, man!

ChrisP
12-05-2009, 03:56 PM
Couple lazy turnovers and we're letting SJU back in this game...

Jeff0r3
12-05-2009, 03:57 PM
I think Zoubek is killin us.. Why does Coach K keep putting him in the game?

I've been waiting for him to show up to a game for 2 years now :/

slower
12-05-2009, 03:58 PM
Everybody except for Lance looks like they're sleepwalking. Is it because of St. Johns' offensive set or what? Anybody? Seems like K thinks Lance/Z are the best big man combo, for this game at least.

Where's the interior defense? Mason looks slightly lost.

Wow. Kyle is 4-16 shooting.

Ultrarunner
12-05-2009, 04:00 PM
I think Zoubek is killin us.. Why does Coach K keep putting him in the game?

I've been waiting for him to show up to a game for 2 years now :/

He's got 7 reb, 11 pts and has been playing good defense.

Jeff0r3
12-05-2009, 04:04 PM
I'm not trollin here Ultrarunner, but He should have 22 points and 14 rebounds. I'm just sick of looking for reasons to understand and believe in him as a Blue Devil...

ChrisP
12-05-2009, 04:04 PM
He's got 7 reb, 11 pts and has been playing good defense.

Zoubek has actually played quite well today. But...he HAS to lead the NCAA in fouls from illegal screens. Does it ALL the time!

pfrduke
12-05-2009, 04:04 PM
I think Zoubek is killin us.. Why does Coach K keep putting him in the game?

I've been waiting for him to show up to a game for 2 years now :/


He's got 7 reb, 11 pts and has been playing good defense.

He's also been much more effective than our other two centers (Miles/Mason) today.

Jeff0r3
12-05-2009, 04:07 PM
I may be wrong, but I think Duke has a better team with Z on the Bench...

Ultrarunner
12-05-2009, 04:08 PM
I'm not trollin here Ultrarunner, but He should have 22 points and 14 rebounds. I'm just sick of looking for reasons to understand and believe in him as a Blue Devil...

It's hard to get to 22 points when you've only shot 5 times. He hit 4 of those. He's 3 of 4 from the line. That's pretty efficient.

Care to explain why he should have double his numbers after 30 minutes of play?

Welcome2DaSlopes
12-05-2009, 04:08 PM
I may be wrong, but I think Duke has a better team with Z on the Bench...

No, I think your right.

Welcome2DaSlopes
12-05-2009, 04:10 PM
Kyle seems more comfortable at the 4.

pfrduke
12-05-2009, 04:11 PM
I'm not trollin here Ultrarunner, but He should have 22 points and 14 rebounds. I'm just sick of looking for reasons to understand and believe in him as a Blue Devil...

If he had 22/14, he would be playing close to a perfect game. I don't understand why people expect big people to play perfect games more than guards.

He's going to make mistakes (and he has), but he's also going to a) be a big deterrent in the lane (which he has been), b) get a lot of offensive rebounds (he's the best offensive rebounder in the conference so far this year), and c) convert open looks. He's done much more of a, b, and c today than he's made mistakes. He's had a good game.

Jeff0r3
12-05-2009, 04:14 PM
If he had 22/14, he would be playing close to a perfect game. I don't understand why people expect big people to play perfect games more than guards.

He's going to make mistakes (and he has), but he's also going to a) be a big deterrent in the lane (which he has been), b) get a lot of offensive rebounds (he's the best offensive rebounder in the conference so far this year), and c) convert open looks. He's done much more of a, b, and c today than he's made mistakes. He's had a good game.

He's on the bench with 10 mins to go because of Foul Trouble...


It's hard to get to 22 points when you've only shot 5 times. He hit 4 of those. He's 3 of 4 from the line. That's pretty efficient.

Care to explain why he should have double his numbers after 30 minutes of play?



I'm not gonna Debate.. I'm merely saying, I have been waiting for him to show up as a real Player for Duke. I'm just wondering why K keeps giving him chances.. He can't shoot, he' has no Feet, no moves, His hands are clumsy, and he fouls because he is tired...

dukebballcamper90-91
12-05-2009, 04:17 PM
kyle continues to shoot too much

pfrduke
12-05-2009, 04:18 PM
He's on the bench with 10 mins to go because of Foul Trouble...





I'm not gonna Debate.. I'm merely saying, I have been waiting for him to show up as a real Player for Duke. I'm just wondering why K keeps giving him chances.. He can't shoot, he' has no Feet, no moves, His hands are clumsy, and he fouls because he is tired...

You seem to be willing to recognize only his weaknesses. He assuredly has weaknesses - no one is arguing he doesn't. But every player has weaknesses.

Zoubek also has plenty of positives, and when he brings those to the game (as he has today), he has a positive impact on the team.

Welcome2DaSlopes
12-05-2009, 04:20 PM
Why are they not passing to Andre? He has been open at least three times and Nolan or Jon did nothing. It would seem as if they only pass it to someone with an S in their last name.

Jeff0r3
12-05-2009, 04:21 PM
We Agree on one thing.. We disagree on the role that Z plays for the Blue Devils. I think we do agree that we both wish he had scored 22/14 at this point in the game.

dukebballcamper90-91
12-05-2009, 04:22 PM
kyle nolan nor john will pass to andre, wtf? where are the plum bros in 2nd half?

Ultrarunner
12-05-2009, 04:23 PM
Why are they not passing to Andre? He has been open at least three times and Nolan or Jon did nothing. It would seem as if they only pass it to someone with an S in their last name.

It appears the point of emphasis for the team was to effectively use the front line. It has been successful if less flashy.

slower
12-05-2009, 04:25 PM
kyle nolan nor john will pass to andre, wtf? where are the plum bros in 2nd half?

What's up with that? Dre was WIDE open before Nolan's drive and dunk.

Is there something going on that we don't know about - some kind of freeze-out?

Cameron
12-05-2009, 04:25 PM
Pass the ball. That's one of the reasons we lost at Wisconsin.

Cameron
12-05-2009, 04:26 PM
That really pisses me off. I'd bench Nolan if I were coach. Then again, I'm not a legend.

But that's f'ing bs.

That's all I really wanted to say about that.

Welcome2DaSlopes
12-05-2009, 04:27 PM
They have been ignoring him all game.

Indoor66
12-05-2009, 04:27 PM
That really pisses me off. I'd bench Nolan if I were coach. Then again, I'm not a legend.

But that's f'ing bs.

That's all I really wanted to say about that.

What are you talking about?

Cicero
12-05-2009, 04:29 PM
I hope we're recruiting Madison Plumlee...apparently he's the best of the Plumlee brothers (which must mean that he's even better than Marshall Plumlee)!