Offensive Language by students

[DukieBoy]

Last night at the Maryland game, Assembly Hall was finally packed. The fans were into it and it was a great atmosphere.

Coach Crean acknowledged after the game, Crean commented that that he "loved the energy they brought us tonight."

However, he also commented on the fans yelling vulgar things shouted at Grevis Vasquez, such as racist remarks and offensive language to Vasquez and the rest of the team.

But the interesting thing I found was what one of the players said. He said something to the effect that, while he doesn't encourage offensive language, it's something that makes the a top-10 atmosphere.

But is language something that we need to just deal with now-a-days? It's something that comes up more and more and, as a student, it seems like more kids feel the need to yell these things.

What do you guys think?

[cspan37421]

Each facility/team can make its own rules, and foul language in and of itself does not bother me a whit. However, it is often coupled with hate and that's when it gets ugly for me.

A couple years ago I took my son, then almost 9, I'd guess, to a Hawks - Mavs game. We had the misfortune of sitting very near to the most foul-mouthed, boorish fans (Mavs, in this case) I've ever encountered. Just two young guys, ruining the atmosphere for everyone around them. After halftime we moved down and away from those clowns.

I disagree with that player - that foul language and venomous personal or racists attacks are necessary to create a top 10 atmosphere. (don't know if you meant top 10 venues or what). I think a crowd that is loud, cheering or chanting in unison, spontaneous, creative, etc - that all makes for a great atmosphere. I think you can root against the opposition without dehumanizing them or demeaning yourself.

But I'm old school, so what do I know.

[Indoor66]

Each facility/team can make its own rules, and foul language in and of itself does not bother me a whit. However, it is often coupled with hate and that's when it gets ugly for me.

A couple years ago I took my son, then almost 9, I'd guess, to a Hawks - Mavs game. We had the misfortune of sitting very near to the most foul-mouthed, boorish fans (Mavs, in this case) I've ever encountered. Just two young guys, ruining the atmosphere for everyone around them. After halftime we moved down and away from those clowns.

I disagree with that player - that foul language and venomous personal or racists attacks are necessary to create a top 10 atmosphere. (don't know if you meant top 10 venues or what). I think a crowd that is loud, cheering or chanting in unison, spontaneous, creative, etc - that all makes for a great atmosphere. I think you can root against the opposition without dehumanizing them or demeaning yourself.

But I'm old school, so what do I know.

I'm with you. An arena with no foul language is addition by subtraction.

[DukeSean]

yea, let's take the foul mouths out of the players on the court too....

like it or not, foul words create a particular atmosphere that only foul words can create. that's why they're foul words. although I personally try to refrain from cursing, it just doesn't have the same effect when, after an emphatic rejection at the rim, people yell, "get that darn nonsense outta here"

I would agree that racism and personal hate attacks have no place in sports venues, but as for curse words? it just wouldn't be the same, IMHO.

[lpd1982]

Our fans are tough on Maryland too. I was at a game where the Crazies were really giving it to him during warm ups, but not offensively. One guy even challenged him to a shootout. Vasquez shot from the three point line and missed. The Crazy got a ball from somewhere and shot from the stands. He swished it! Vasquez had a terrible game. A much better way to alter player performance I'd say.

[uh_no]

to all you old school guys, how many of you sand the lyrics 'carolina go to hell' in the fight song (yes I know not the actual lyrics....but who sings those anyway)

and who has ever taken part in GTHC chant

yeah

thats what I thought

[Rich]

A couple years ago I took my son, then almost 9, I'd guess, to a Hawks - Mavs game. We had the misfortune of sitting very near to the most foul-mouthed, boorish fans (Mavs, in this case) I've ever encountered. Just two young guys, ruining the atmosphere for everyone around them. After halftime we moved down and away from those clowns.

I guess Mark Cuban brought a guest to the game! :p

[allenmurray]

to all you old school guys, how many of you sand the lyrics 'carolina go to hell' in the fight song (yes I know not the actual lyrics....but who sings those anyway)

and who has ever taken part in GTHC chant

yeah

thats what I thought

I'm thinking we might be talking about things a lot more vulgar than that. From a theologidal perspective GTHC is questionable - but it doesn't make me hesitate to take my 9 year old to a game, compared to some of the descriptions of anatomy and sexual practices (some of which are not even possible) that I have heard at sporting events.

[BD80]

Hoosier fans best be careful! If they had a relevant program, their chant comparing Vasquez to a feline, denigrating the entire genus, would have prompted the ASPCA to take some serious action!

[cspan37421]

to all you old school guys, how many of you sand the lyrics 'carolina go to hell' in the fight song (yes I know not the actual lyrics....but who sings those anyway)

and who has ever taken part in GTHC chant

yeah

thats what I thought

Nice attitude. Not. JMO.

Yes, I've sung that chant - as an 18-21 year old in the student section, not near any little kids. And I'd never chant an ethnic slur. There's a difference.

[uh_no]

I'm thinking we might be talking about things a lot more vulgar than that. From a theologidal perspective GTHC is questionable - but it doesn't make me hesitate to take my 9 year old to a game, compared to some of the descriptions of anatomy and sexual practices (some of which are not even possible) that I have heard at sporting events.

bad words are bad words...

what about the eat s*** that inevitably follows carolina go to hell?

is that alright?

what about when students make obviously euphemistic references such as 'you got czyzed on'....is this alright?

what it seems like is that people here want to find reasons to criticize other fans while turning a blind eye to what happens here in CIS

[cspan37421]

Our fans are tough on Maryland too. I was at a game where the Crazies were really giving it to him during warm ups, but not offensively. One guy even challenged him to a shootout. Vasquez shot from the three point line and missed. The Crazy got a ball from somewhere and shot from the stands. He swished it! Vasquez had a terrible game. A much better way to alter player performance I'd say.

I wouldn't call that tough, in a foul language way (unless you left something out); what that fan did sounds really clever, creative, and effective. I'd have loved to have been there. Sounds like a trick shot he had mastered - well played!

[Duvall]

bad words are bad words...

what about the eat s*** that inevitably follows carolina go to hell?

is that alright?

what about when students make obviously euphemistic references such as 'you got czyzed on'....is this alright?

No and yes. The difference is that the latter is at least somewhat clever, while the former is just plain crude.

Can we at least agree that racial and ethnic slurs are right out? I'm pretty sure we agree on that, but I want to make it clear.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

bad words are bad words...

what about the eat s*** that inevitably follows carolina go to hell?

is that alright?

what about when students make obviously euphemistic references such as 'you got czyzed on'....is this alright?

what it seems like is that people here want to find reasons to criticize other fans while turning a blind eye to what happens here in CIS

If you do a search of topics on this web site, you'll see that the matter of type of language used by the students while in Cameron has been discussed and argued repeatedly. Opinions cover a wide range of what's acceptable and what isn't. Sometimes the differences in opinion are generational differences.

[uh_no]

No and yes. The difference is that the latter is at least somewhat clever, while the former is just plain crude.

Can we at least agree that racial and ethnic slurs are right out? I'm pretty sure we agree on that, but I want to make it clear.

like when we cheered 'nuestra casa' to greveis vasquez.....or what about the people were making fun of the guy from poland or whatever in our last home game?

just because something is clever, does that make it right?

i'm not saying that any of this is right or wrong, just that you can't say other fans are terrible about this stuff while here at home the same things happen

[cspan37421]

uh_no, I hope you pay more attention to your Pratt studies than you do to the actual points people are making in this thread, else you might need to bump that '10 to '11 or later.

[allenmurray]

bad words are bad words...

what about the eat s*** that inevitably follows carolina go to hell?

is that alright?

what about when students make obviously euphemistic references such as 'you got czyzed on'....is this alright?

what it seems like is that people here want to find reasons to criticize other fans while turning a blind eye to what happens here in CIS

First, I think it is gerenally accepted that some "bad words" are worse than others. You might hear a TV character tell another to "go to hell" on a prime-time TV show, but you won't hear some of the other things that are commnly heard at arenas. You have raised is a false equivilency. Your "bad words are bad words" is simply not the social standard that governs much of our collective cultural behavior.

Personally I don't like either the "eat s***" or the "you got czyzed on" - I think they are both juvenile and reflect poorly on those who say them.

When fans, whether at CIS or anywhere else, engage in behavor that is so beyond the generally accepted social standards that is makes the folks around them uncomfortable they should ask themselves, "what would my momma think?"

I'm hardly turning a blind eye to what goes on at CIS - I've been quite proud as a long-time Duke fan that Coach K draws lines for the students from time to time (as when a few years ago he instructed them to stop with the "you suck" after the introductions of opposing players). If Cycz gets enough playing time that the "you got czyzed on" chant becomes common place I won't be surprised to see him ask that it be stopped as well.

[allenmurray]

like when we cheered 'nuestra casa' to greveis vasquez....

i'm not saying that any of this is right or wrong, just that you can't say other fans are terrible about this stuff while here at home the same things happen

Um, that is just silly. That was done after Vasquez had openly taunted Duke by saying that CIS was "his house". Our House is a common chant (both at CIS and at other arenas). To translate it into his native language after his own comments hardly falls in the same category as some of the highly offensive things shouted at players in hostile arenas.

[rasputin]

Um, that is just silly. That was done after Vasquez had openly taunted Duke by saying that CIS was "his house". Our House is a common chant (both at CIS and at other arenas). To translate it into his native language after his own commnets was hardly offensive.

What he said. I don't think that's even close to the line, much less over it.

[Jarhead]

It is time for someone to break out a copy of Uncle Terry's Avuncular letter. I have a copy of it somewhere, but it is in a file long packed away. It is worth the repeat. It comes up every now and then here (http://dukebasketballreport.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7339), and serves as a good reminder of who we really are.

[CMS2478]

First, I think it is gerenally accepted that some "bad words" are worse than others. You might hear a TV character tell another to "go to hell" on a prime-time TV show, but you won't hear some of the other things that are commnly heard at arenas. You have raised is a false equivilency. Your "bad words are bad words" is simply not the social standard that governs much of our collective cultural behavior.

Personally I don't like either the "eat s***" or the "you got czyzed on" - I think they are both juvenile and reflect poorly on those who say them.

When fans, whether at CIS or anywhere else, engage in behavor that is so beyond the generally accepted social standards that is makes the folks around them uncomfortable they should ask themselves, "what would my momma think?"

I'm hardly turning a blind eye to what goes on at CIS - I've been quite proud as a long-time Duke fan that Coach K draws lines for the students from time to time (as when a few years ago he instructed them to stop with the "you suck" after the introductions of opposing players). If Cycz gets enough playing time that the "you got czyzed on" chant becomes common place I won't be surprised to see him ask that it be stopped as well.


Personally, I don't like the GTHC or the eat S*** or the Cycz chant and I was glad when Coach K made the Crazies stop saying "you suck" during the introductions but I was at the Coastal Carolina game this year and they were chanting it again. Not sure what changed?? Different people have different moral and ethical standards and it's impossible to please everyone, but my opinion is that you can be a great crowd without any crude, cursing, or racists comments. Just my take.

[uh_no]

uh_no, I hope you pay more attention to your Pratt studies than you do to the actual points people are making in this thread, else you might need to bump that '10 to '11 or later.

I'll have you know I was in the class of '11, but moved it up to the class of '10 while finishing a double major with a minor on the side.

Perhaps you should look up the meaning of 'ad hominem' while i'm busy finishing my masters degree.

[allenmurray]

I'll have you know I was in the class of '11, but moved it up to the class of '10 while finishing a double major with a minor on the side.

Perhaps you should look up the meaning of 'ad hominem' while i'm busy finishing my masters degree.

That fact that you are a good student doesn't make offensive langauge more accpetable.

[theAlaskanBear]

There are bad words, and then there are bad words.

Intent makes a lot of difference in my mind. I often say "gosh darnit" or "fecal matter" in reaction to particular plays, or a "heck" yeah. I don't use the
f-bomb except in the privacy of my own home or among close friends. Honestly, I don't view "heck" as anything close to a curse word, but thats probably because I rarely ever use the GTH version, instead it comes up mostly as heck no or heck yeah.

Thats way different than derogatory taunts and ethnic slurs.

For the record, I don't think "Nuestra casa" is racist, BUT it does approach a line that I would be cautious about, when taunts involve players background. I can see how it may be perceived as poor taste.

[airowe]

Maybe it's important to know exactly what was said so we can draw some lines of inequality here.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigten/2009-12-02-crean-indiana-chant-maryland_N.htm


Still, Crean was plenty upset about the chant "Still a (expletive)," that was directed at Vasquez as he shot free throws late in the game.

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/2009/12/crean-expects-more-from-indiana-fans.html


But late in the game, the IU students sitting on the East side of Assembly Hall started chanting a vulgarity at Maryland senior guard Greivis Vazquez. The vulgarity concerned a female body part, not the one in the Seinfeld episode.

I think we can all agree that this has never been witnessed at Cameron and if it has it would have been dealt with quickly.

[uh_no]

That fact that you are a good student doesn't make offensive langauge more accpetable.

I don't believe I insinuated as such. In fact, my response was only to counter an attack on my character. If you have read the posts I have made on this thread, nowhere do I imply that I think offensive language is acceptable; I simply make the point that there should not be a double standard between what is considered offensive in and out of Cameron. What has arisen is that clearly people people have disagreements about what is considered offensive. Some people contend that what comes out of the mouths of crazies is at least somewhat offensive (at least comparable to what the OP refers to), while others continue to contend that offensive language from the crazies is either not offensive, or allowable, due to the fact that it is 'clever' and in good taste.

EDIT: After I posted this, the previous poster responded with exactly what was said, and clearly it is 'worse' than what goes on in cameron. What it comes down to is where each individual draws their line. I think some parents would not be happy bringing their kids to games having the crazies cheer 'go to hell, eat s***'

[91_92_01_10_15]

Different people have different moral and ethical standards and it's impossible to please everyone, but my opinion is that you can be a great crowd without any crude, cursing, or racists comments. Just my take.

Couldn't agree more. I've been privileged to have access to season tickets for the last 35 years and, IMO, the likelihood of the team doing something genuinely transcendent goes way up when the crowd is strictly and positively supporting the home team. That's why I like it when the other team is almost ignored and the group's attention seems entirely focused on Duke. Granted, this is a pet theory of mine, so I am far from objective on the matter, but I really believe it is so.

[allenmurray]

I don't believe I insinuated as such, in fact, my response was only to counter an attack on my character. If you have read the posts I have made on this thread, nowhere do I imply that I think offensive language is acceptable. I simply make the point that there should not be a double standard between what is considered offensive in and out of Cameron. What has arisen is that clearly people people have disagreements about what is considered offensive. Some people contend that what comes out of the mouths of crazies is at least somewhat offensive (at least comparable to what the OP refers to), while others continue to contend that offensive language from the crazies is either not offensive, or allowable, due to the fact that it is 'clever' and in good taste.

Got it. But you seem to be assuming that a lot of people here (meaining on DBR) have that double standard. That may be true some places (and perhaps among the crazies), but I don't think it is all that true by standards of this board (which is your audience). Most folks here hold CIS to a pretty high standard. If you are worrying about a double standard I think you are preaching to the choir. My experience tells me that this board isn't made up of many people who shout vulgarities at CIS (or elsewhere).

[uh_no]

Got it. But you seem to be assuming that a lot of people here (meaining on DBR) have that double standard. That may be true some places (and perhaps among the crazies), but I don't think it is all that true by standards of this board (which is your audience). Most folks here hold CIS to a pretty high standard. If you are worrying about a double standard I think you are preaching to the choir. My experience tells me that this board isn't made up of many people who shout vulgarities at CIS (or elsewhere).

Oh, I agree. In my original post on this thread, I was pointing out the hypocrisy surrounding someone criticizing vulgar fans when he very likely would have chanted something vulgar as a crazy. I apologize any members who might have thought I was criticizing their objectiveness and integrity.

[DukieBoy]

Maybe it's important to know exactly what was said so we can draw some lines of inequality here.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigten/2009-12-02-crean-indiana-chant-maryland_N.htm



http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/2009/12/crean-expects-more-from-indiana-fans.html



I think we can all agree that this has never been witnessed at Cameron and if it has it would have been dealt with quickly.

That was the big one, but others listed in the paper and one's I overheard

"Go back to Cuba"
"USA" (chanted as Jin Soo Choi shot free throws)
"***hole"

I agree that this shouldn't be tolerated and I expect an email to the student body at some point from the AD.

(If any of these are offensive, edit them as necessary mods. I tried to edit them myself)

[Duvall]

I think we can all agree that this has never been witnessed at Cameron and if it has it would have been dealt with quickly.

Well, we did call Jeff McInnis an [expletive deleted]. Though in our defense, Jeff McInnis really was an [expletive deleted].

[feldspar]

If Coach K can scream the F word at the refs game in and game out, why can't the students use the word "suck"?

Life's just not fair.

[allenmurray]

If Coach K can scream the F word at the refs game in and game out, why can't the students use the word "suck"?
Because . . .

Life's just not fair.


In all seriousness, I wish he wasn't quite so quick with the curse words either. There are two differences:

His is "heat of the moment". The other is planned (if my own kids break out in a string of cuss words after slamming the car door on their finger I will be a lot more forgiving than if they say "pass the f*****ng butter" at the dinner table).

One person vs. 1000 people.

[Duvall]

If Coach K can scream the F word at the refs game in and game out, why can't the students use the word "suck"?

Life's just not fair.

The mics rarely catch Coach K cursing but will always catch a thousand students cursing. Also, he's in the Hall of Fame and they aren't.

[BD80]

... compared to some of the descriptions of anatomy and sexual practices (some of which are not even possible) that I have heard at sporting events.

Maybe not at CIS, but could they be possible if one were amazingly athletic?

[jesus_hurley]

Because . . .



In all seriousness, I wish he wasn't quite so quick with the curse words either. There are two differences:

His is "heat of the moment". The other is planned (if my own kids break out in a string of cuss words after slamming the car door on their finger I will be a lot more forgiving than if they say "pass the f*****ng butter" at the dinner table).

One person vs. 1000 people.

Wait, that's not how you get the butter passed to you? $%*&.

[rasputin]

Maybe not at CIS, but could they be possible if one were amazingly athletic?

Well played.

[-jk]

This thread is going nowhere useful.

-jk