PDA

View Full Version : Duke Hate Tsunami, 2009-10 edition



Pages : 1 [2] 3

oldnavy
04-03-2010, 06:16 AM
The one thing that always seems to be missing in these “exploitive” arguments is the fact that the kids do get compensated. I never received an athletic scholarship, but I am pretty sure that part of the benefit of a scholarship, is tuition, room and board is it not? So, the ability to get a college education for zero out of pocket financial costs in return for playing a game that you would be playing at the YMCA or on the blacktop if not at school somehow isn't considered compensation? I don't get it. Actually, I do get it. The mindset that somehow these poor souls are being used up by the system begins to germinate and blossoms into what we see in professional athletics. Millionaires complaining to billionaires, that they are under paid for playing a game. That can be a hard sell anytime, but it is especially tough to swallow in today's economy when so many hard working folks are jobless.

77devil
04-03-2010, 06:40 AM
Wow, going after a guy's game is really hitting below the belt.

I continue to be disappointed at the level of discourse many of you feel you need to make a point. That said, you continue to miss mine: if you play in the sandbox, you get dirty. Has Mike Krzyzewski ever spoken out against Huggins' poor behavior and wretched graduation rates? Has he ever used his bully pulpit to address the many objectionable things he knows go on in college basketball? Or even to address the lacrosse situation on his own campus?

I have never said that Mike wasn't an exceptional coach. But I will say that most of the coaches and players I've known who think they've been treated unfairly will tell you that to your face.

No one has missed your point. We simply don't agree with your lame and totally unsubstantiated attempt to characterize Duke's program "as much a part of an exploitive system as any other member of the college entertainment industry." Now that you have been completely refuted by OPs, you're back to the accusation that you made earlier this year that Duke is a dirty program, albeit perhaps not as bad as some.


The top players are paid in the six-figure range, going back to the $125,000 Stephon Marbury received to go to George Tech. As far as I can tell, Duke does not engage in the high-end side of this.

But in all of your recent responses you have avoided answering the question posed to you more than once that clearly reveals you to be the shallow hypocrite that you are. While you profess the system to be abusive to minorities, and it is as practiced by some programs, why would you root for WV, a team coached by one of the worst purveyors of the exploitation you allegedly find so disdainful?

You criticize Coach K for not using the bully pulpit, but where is your seminal piece of investigative journalism that reveals the worst of the dark side of the sport?

And as for your last point, find me anyone after 30 years in a high profile occupation who doesn't have a few detractors that felt they were treated unfairly. So what. What's the point of making this last comment, if not simply to take a cheap shot, when the purported purpose of your other posts was to criticize exploitation in college basketball. Where is your blog post feigning righteous indignation at the abysmal graduation rates and exploitive practices of Calipari, Huggins, and Calhoun, for example?

Come on Jon, just admit it, you're just another Duke hater from U of MD. trying hide behind a thinly veiled attempt as a blogger with a supposed principled stand. Now take a deep breath and say it. "I am a Duke hater and a hypocrite." Ahh, doesn't it feel so much better to cleanse the soul.

GODUKEGO
04-03-2010, 07:13 AM
Make sure you read the comments about the Duke-WVU game, two years ago, at the end of the article. Sure this is all being used as motivation.

http://nmsn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/Kriegel-Why-Duke-is-the-most-hated-team-040210

roywhite
04-03-2010, 07:41 AM
Make sure you read the comments about the Duke-WVU game, two years ago, at the end of the article. Sure this is all being used as motivation.

http://nmsn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/Kriegel-Why-Duke-is-the-most-hated-team-040210

Amazing how widespread this storyline of Duke hate is. It's gotten pretty tiresome.

If Duke wins today and goes on to play Monday night, I hope most of the media can come up with other themes.

weezie
04-03-2010, 07:51 AM
Yeah, when you consider that even the now parent company of DBR, SBNation, is touting the anti-Duke line in their recycled stories, it truly is everywhere.

It's pitiful and I hope we crush our opponents and make them cry. Really cry.

muzikfrk75
04-03-2010, 08:45 AM
Seriously?

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/143170241

moonpie23
04-03-2010, 09:09 AM
isn't one team ALWAYS the "weakest #1 seed"?

coldriver10
04-03-2010, 09:39 AM
Isn't the average income of a Duke student's parents misleading? I'd be curious what the median is, because with a small enough sample size of 6000, several mega-millionaires can really skew things...
I definitely agree with you, I'm sure it is skewed some. But when you compare the teams we're often compared to (UNC, UK, etc), there's no question in my mind the average Duke student comes from a more well-to-do background. Which makes sense considering the tuition between Duke and UNC is tens of thousands of dollars.

spinoza
04-03-2010, 09:51 AM
While you profess the system to be abusive to minorities, and it is as practiced by some programs, why would you root for WV, a team coached by one of the worst purveyors of the exploitation you allegedly find so disdainful?


...not sure Jon has fully explained this double-standard...:confused:

killerleft
04-03-2010, 10:02 AM
...not sure Jon has fully explained this double-standard...:confused:

Jon has not explained the double standard because he's still trying to find some way... any way.. to come up with a spin that doesn't cause guffaws from the DBR audience.

I think he would agree that this is "a real pessah".

lpd1982
04-03-2010, 10:54 AM
At 6 am my son reported that the Butler and Michigan State student fans waiting in line outside the stadium had formed an alliance to booo and heckle the first Duke fans. Although there were several hundred of them, he and his friends were the first in line for Duke. He said that they were welcomed with strong BOOS and they were all ready to give him a steady stream of abuse but he won them over with cheery repartee and before you know it they were all joking. We might be despised but we win them over with charm!

An hour after he made that report he called to say that on his way to get rain gear for his group he was hit by a car in a parking lot. He refused to go to the hospital because, of course, he is first in line to get into the stadium for Duke, and Lord knows, the child has his priorities straight. The paramedic assured me on the phone that she would be sure the medical personnel inside the stadium were alerted in case he was feeling poorly later. He let me know in no uncertain terms that the only thing that would make him feel poorly was Mazzulla and crew. Go Duke.

oldnavy
04-03-2010, 11:05 AM
Amazing how widespread this storyline of Duke hate is. It's gotten pretty tiresome.

If Duke wins today and goes on to play Monday night, I hope most of the media can come up with other themes.

Amen. I mean even if this story was interesting to the masses at the onset, hasn't it run its course. I mean, how many articles can you print that essentially same the same exact thing and still call it "news"?

Boring doesn't even begin to describe this tired story line...

DukieInKansas
04-03-2010, 11:17 AM
At 6 am my son reported that the Butler and Michigan State student fans waiting in line outside the stadium had formed an alliance to booo and heckle the first Duke fans. Although there were several hundred of them, he and his friends were the first in line for Duke. He said that they were welcomed with strong BOOS and they were all ready to give him a steady stream of abuse but he won them over with cheery repartee and before you know it they were all joking. We might be despised but we win them over with charm!

An hour after he made that report he called to say that on his way to get rain gear for his group he was hit by a car in a parking lot. He refused to go to the hospital because, of course, he is first in line to get into the stadium for Duke, and Lord knows, the child has his priorities straight. The paramedic assured me on the phone that she would be sure the medical personnel inside the stadium were alerted in case he was feeling poorly later. He let me know in no uncertain terms that the only thing that would make him feel poorly was Mazzulla and crew. Go Duke.

Thanks for the update on the atmosphere. I hope your son is fine. Bruises are ok as long as his vocal chords are still working! :D

BD80
04-03-2010, 11:25 AM
... he was hit by a car in a parking lot. He refused to go to the hospital ... Go Duke.

He's pulling a Singler!

airowe
04-03-2010, 11:45 AM
He's pulling a Singler!

Seriously, that's one tough Duke fan you've got there!

Kewlswim
04-03-2010, 12:41 PM
Hi,

I stayed up to watch the late repeat of "Chronicle Live" on sports news magazine here in the SF Bay Area because they were going to talk about the Final Four and the guest analysts were going to give their picks, etc. That was a mistake, I couldn't get to sleep I was so mad.

When this segment came on it quickly turned into a "bash Duke" segment as the host Greg Poppa (think he is a Syracuse grad) pointed out. Furthermore, one of the people on the panel noted that one guy doing the bashing had still not gotten over that his UNLV alma motta loss to Duke and another was from Cal. Folks who unlike the Duke grads we are used to on t.v. didn't hold their biases in check.

What was interesting to me--beyond the usual Duke should have been dinged by the NCAA for the Piggie-Maggette situation (complete with mis-information about what transpired) and that Duke somehow white-washes the grades of incoming players so that they are admitted was that a lot of what was said came with no evidence beyond a nod, wink, and you-know.

Well, I don't know! I didn't know that Duke somehow fudged grades. If so, I would like to know about it and would like evidence. I didn't know that swearing was against the NCAA. Furthermore, I didn't realize that Corey Maggette had things to say about the Duke program that would put the Duke program in a bad light. If so, I would like to know about that too. If Corey has more to say, perhaps he should say it to the NCAA too, I am sure they would like to know.

I realize the movie "The Blind Side" is a Hollywood dramatization. I was struck in the movie about how the NCAA wanted to find a violation when there wasn't one, the kid wanted to go to school where his family went to school. According to one of the guys on the panel, Paul Gutierrez (the UNLV grad) the Times Picayune had a huge expose on Duke for the 1999 Final Four, but because Duke didn't attend that FF the story was lost, but it had lots of information in it that the public needed to see. So somehow Duke is blamed for not going to the one FF it should have so that evidence that showed how flawed the program is would come to light to a larger audience? Is that twisted or what?

What information was there Paul? If it was so good why can't you remember it and all you can do is re-hash Piggie giving money to Maggette and say things like "because it was Duke the NCAA turned a blind eye (I didn't know the NCAA turned a blind eye, can you give evidence that someone in the NCAA turned a blind eye? Just to be clear I think it was $2000 dollars Corey received to play in a game before Duke started recruiting him. If you have evidence to the contrary, please let us know.)

After about 10 minutes of complete Duke bashing the group then all picked Duke to win tonight. I guess that once you show how much Duke is the villain it then becomes ok to pick them. I sure am glad I stayed up to watch those clowns talk about their picks.

I guess it was too much for me to ask for some analysis about the game and why Duke or West Virginia should win. For some reason I thought it was just Ray Ratto who was a Bay Area hack. Paul Gutierrez did little to impress me. There was also this guy name Dave Bollwinkel. Has anyone heard of him? Perhaps Rocky has and that was why he was smart enough to stay away. He was obnoxious, annoying, and devoid of any valuable information for a "so-called" college basketball analyst. Thanks for letting me know Coach K swears a lot. I am sure glass houses must be fun to live in too!

ARGHHHHHH

GO Duke!

alteran
04-03-2010, 01:09 PM
God, I hope you're wrong.

But I won't be surprised if you're right. :(

Sadly I agree 100%. If you're an official you've got to realize calling the game at least slightly against Duke is the safe move.

Vincetaylor
04-03-2010, 01:29 PM
I would like nothing more than to have all of these pitiful "Duke haters" suffer through another Duke championship. They deserve it. I don't think the players will be in a particularly pleasant mood after seeing a picture of their coach on the cover of the Indy paper with a bullseye on his forehead. I think they are going to come out with a level of intensity that we have not seen in a long time from a Duke team or any other team. They are going to be fired up. I guarantee it. Let's Get Ready to Rumble!!

Baxter the Lab
04-03-2010, 01:30 PM
According to one of the guys on the panel, Paul Gutierrez (the UNLV grad) the Times Picayune had a huge expose on Duke for the 1999 Final Four, but because Duke didn't attend that FF the story was lost, but it had lots of information in it that the public needed to see. So somehow Duke is blamed for not going to the one FF it should have so that evidence that showed how flawed the program is

??

Duke played UCONN in the final game that year----which means they WERE in the FF.

Or am I missing something?

alteran
04-03-2010, 01:39 PM
??

Duke played UCONN in the final game that year----which means they WERE in the FF.

Or am I missing something?

I couldn't follow that either. Maybe he meant 98?

Kewlswim
04-03-2010, 01:40 PM
??

Duke played UCONN in the final game that year----which means they WERE in the FF.

Or am I missing something?

Hi,

I think you are RIGHT. I just repeated what Gutierrez said.

GO DUKE!

RockLobster
04-03-2010, 02:10 PM
I would like nothing more than to have all of these pitiful "Duke haters" suffer through another Duke championship. They deserve it. I don't think the players will be in a particularly pleasant mood after seeing a picture of their coach on the cover of the Indy paper with a bullseye on his forehead. I think they are going to come out with a level of intensity that we have not seen in a long time from a Duke team or any other team. They are going to be fired up. I guarantee it. Let's Get Ready to Rumble!!

Really. I wrote this article for Bleacher Report today on the phenomenon of Duke hate:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/372810-defending-duke-off-the-court-why-the-blue-devils-are-not-worthy-of-hate

...and you should read the comment that someone who claims to be an ex-Georgetown employee wrote. I ripped into her with a reply.

The arguments and vitriol that they usually spew truly are, as you said, pitiful.

roywhite
04-03-2010, 02:35 PM
Really. I wrote this article for Bleacher Report today on the phenomenon of Duke hate:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/372810-defending-duke-off-the-court-why-the-blue-devils-are-not-worthy-of-hate

...and you should read the comment that someone who claims to be an ex-Georgetown employee wrote. I ripped into her with a reply.

The arguments and vitriol that they usually spew truly are, as you said, pitiful.

Thanks for the article and thanks for posting.

One point---the Christian Laettner "stomp" is one of the most over-hyped stories in existence. If you haven't already, look at a tape of the game and see what actually happened. The officials saw what Laettner did (lightly stepping on KY player Timberlake's chest while he was down) and correctly assessed a technical against CL and Duke. It was not grounds for a flagrant foul or an ejection, or a suspension, or anything else.

Use of that incident from 18 years ago to make any kind of broad generalization about Duke is simply ridiculous.

_Gary
04-03-2010, 02:37 PM
I'll say this once and only once, because I've determined not to let all this bull get to me this weekend.

The current "Duke hate" that we have all witnessed over the last week or so has been generated by ESPN and, to a much lesser degree, a few comments by the commentators at CBS. They generated this. This latest hate has not been a "grass roots" thing that evolved from fans. It has been birthed, and well-fed, via the media. Anyone that claims the media is simply reporting what the fans first felt is full of you know what. There was no outcry until Lavin & Co. got this thing going a week ago Friday after Duke's win against Purdue. And they fanned the flames that they themselves started last Sunday after the Blue Devils beat Baylor. Of course the populace has now latched on and I have no doubt the Duke Hate is as strong as ever with the general viewing public, but this wave did not start with the public. It started with the media and it was done on purpose. Not only that, it was a concerted effort.

Again, I'll stake anything and everything I have on this fact: ESPN and the rest of the media have MADE this news - they aren't simply REPORTING it. I defy anyone to deny this.

Rant over...

Go Duke!

Vincetaylor
04-03-2010, 02:39 PM
Really. I wrote this article for Bleacher Report today on the phenomenon of Duke hate:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/372810-defending-duke-off-the-court-why-the-blue-devils-are-not-worthy-of-hate

...and you should read the comment that someone who claims to be an ex-Georgetown employee wrote. I ripped into her with a reply.

The arguments and vitriol that they usually spew truly are, as you said, pitiful.

Good article and a lot of good points. It's amazing how much the word "hate" is just thrown around. It's a strong word and should never really be used to describe a fellow human being or group of human beings. If it is used, at least save it for something/someone more deserving than Duke or Coach K...like bin Laden or tornadoes for instance. I too am a Duke grad and N.C. native, so I know you're as tired as the unjustified "Duke hate" as I am.

RockLobster
04-03-2010, 03:38 PM
Thanks for the article and thanks for posting.

One point---the Christian Laettner "stomp" is one of the most over-hyped stories in existence. If you haven't already, look at a tape of the game and see what actually happened. The officials saw what Laettner did (lightly stepping on KY player Timberlake's chest while he was down) and correctly assessed a technical against CL and Duke. It was not grounds for a flagrant foul or an ejection, or a suspension, or anything else.

Use of that incident from 18 years ago to make any kind of broad generalization about Duke is simply ridiculous.

Exactly - and the idiot woman I responded to called it a "head dribble."

I'm so glad I didn't apply to Georgetown.

lpd1982
04-03-2010, 03:55 PM
Update:

"Oh, I'm fine...maybe a broken rib or two, probably just bruised, tingling in my arm, sore all over, but our seats are AWESOME!!!" First row center in the Duke student section behind the basket...

"It'll be perfect for heckling free throwers AND getting cheers going for our defense!". Singler WOULD be proud.

roywhite
04-03-2010, 03:58 PM
Exactly - and the idiot woman I responded to called it a "head dribble."

I'm so glad I didn't apply to Georgetown.

There was an incident that involved Christian Laettner and "head dribble" but it was CL's head being "dribbled". In the 1991 NCAA tournament vs UConn, Rod Sellers got mad at Christian for something and started banging his head on the floor. Duke wins over UConn in 1990 and 1991 made the Huskies early haters of Duke (though that's a group that got its revenge on the court in 1999 and 2004).

Some of this Duke hate stuff is truly a mix of urban legend and untruths dating back 20 years and more.

Devil in the Blue Dress
04-03-2010, 04:20 PM
At 6 am my son reported that the Butler and Michigan State student fans waiting in line outside the stadium had formed an alliance to booo and heckle the first Duke fans. Although there were several hundred of them, he and his friends were the first in line for Duke. He said that they were welcomed with strong BOOS and they were all ready to give him a steady stream of abuse but he won them over with cheery repartee and before you know it they were all joking. We might be despised but we win them over with charm!

An hour after he made that report he called to say that on his way to get rain gear for his group he was hit by a car in a parking lot. He refused to go to the hospital because, of course, he is first in line to get into the stadium for Duke, and Lord knows, the child has his priorities straight. The paramedic assured me on the phone that she would be sure the medical personnel inside the stadium were alerted in case he was feeling poorly later. He let me know in no uncertain terms that the only thing that would make him feel poorly was Mazzulla and crew. Go Duke.

I'm trying to visualize what sort of circumstances would surround an incident in which a car hits a pedestrian in a parking lot. I really hope your son is fine.

-bdbd
04-03-2010, 04:26 PM
I'll say this once and only once, because I've determined not to let all this bull get to me this weekend.

The current "Duke hate" that we have all witnessed over the last week or so has been generated by ESPN and, to a much lesser degree, a few comments by the commentators at CBS. They generated this. This latest hate has not been a "grass roots" thing that evolved from fans. It has been birthed, and well-fed, via the media. Anyone that claims the media is simply reporting what the fans first felt is full of you know what. There was no outcry until Lavin & Co. got this thing going a week ago Friday after Duke's win against Purdue. And they fanned the flames that they themselves started last Sunday after the Blue Devils beat Baylor. Of course the populace has now latched on and I have no doubt the Duke Hate is as strong as ever with the general viewing public, but this wave did not start with the public. It started with the media and it was done on purpose. Not only that, it was a concerted effort.

Again, I'll stake anything and everything I have on this fact: ESPN and the rest of the media have MADE this news - they aren't simply REPORTING it. I defy anyone to deny this.


Absolutely. The "ESPN is driving this" argument for me has always been self-evident. Look, most sports-writers/broadcasters aren't exactly rocket scientists. (Very few of us are!) But no doubt that many of them see a topic with a lot of passion around it, and obviously want to tap into/pander to that live wire of interest. Interest = ratings, circulation and eventually money. Controversey/hate sells better than feel-good stories.

It does seem pretty funny though, if you think about it. This theme this year just came out of nowhere - and in the context of a Duke squad that is about as "feel good" as they come....from Nolan playing in his dad's footsteps, to Dre's sister, to the three seniors persevering for four years to get to this point, with no controversial personalities, and all soon to be graduating, as well as an unsong team that has been under-recognized all year now coming to the fore.... In that context the 'Duke hate' theme spewing from some of the media outlets is really kind of astoninshing.

In the end, I think most of these reporters and writers are like lemmings -- too lazy or uncreative to generate their own material, they are latching on to something easy that generates passion (and audiences).

As simple as that. Kind of sad. If it gives Jon, Greg, Kyle, Nolan, Lance and Coach K a little extra chip on their shoulders...well, all the better.

lpd1982
04-03-2010, 04:31 PM
Apparently it began to rain and in an attempt to buy plastic trash bags to serve as rain ponchos from an auto parts store, one of the employees in a truck from the store backed out quickly without looking. Fortunately he was very kind and took it upon himself to call the EMTs and stayed with the group until it was perfectly clear would be OK. I guess the players weren't the only ones who got a police escort to the stadium, Makin' memories!

_Gary
04-03-2010, 04:46 PM
It does seem pretty funny though, if you think about it. This theme this year just came out of nowhere - and in the context of a Duke squad that is about as "feel good" as they come....from Nolan playing in his dad's footsteps, to Dre's sister, to the three seniors persevering for four years to get to this point, with no controversial personalities, and all soon to be graduating, as well as an unsong team that has been under-recognized all year now coming to the fore.... In that context the 'Duke hate' theme spewing from some of the media outlets is really kind of astoninshing.

This is what bugs me the most about it happening this time around. These current Blue Devils are so likable that it really frosts me that the media has generated the current "Hate Duke" wave. I just sincerely believe this theme about hating Duke would NOT have naturally evolved if the media hadn't basically generated it.

I also agree that most of these writers and commentators that are spewing the hate do so because they are lazy and just want to generate cheap buzz. Unfortunately, the average fan is also a lemming and can easily be led down the primrose path and off the cliff. I mean, after all, if ESPN is saying Duke gets all the calls it must be true. Right? :rolleyes:

Merlindevildog91
04-03-2010, 04:47 PM
Hope your son is all right. Taking one for the team!

Spam Filter
04-03-2010, 05:02 PM
Coach K was right we he talked about this earlier this week, that normally, for a public state school, the antagonism toward the program is offset by a group of local media, fans, public officials, that shield and defend the program vigorously.

But Duke being a private institution, does not that have natural shield that most other big time basketball programs have, so the "hate" gets to go rampant without any checks.

RoyalBlue08
04-03-2010, 05:05 PM
Absolutely. The "ESPN is driving this" argument for me has always been self-evident. Look, most sports-writers/broadcasters aren't exactly rocket scientists. (Very few of us are!) But no doubt that many of them see a topic with a lot of passion around it, and obviously want to tap into/pander to that live wire of interest. Interest = ratings, circulation and eventually money. Controversey/hate sells better than feel-good stories.

It does seem pretty funny though, if you think about it. This theme this year just came out of nowhere - and in the context of a Duke squad that is about as "feel good" as they come....from Nolan playing in his dad's footsteps, to Dre's sister, to the three seniors persevering for four years to get to this point, with no controversial personalities, and all soon to be graduating, as well as an unsong team that has been under-recognized all year now coming to the fore.... In that context the 'Duke hate' theme spewing from some of the media outlets is really kind of astoninshing.

In the end, I think most of these reporters and writers are like lemmings -- too lazy or uncreative to generate their own material, they are latching on to something easy that generates passion (and audiences).

As simple as that. Kind of sad. If it gives Jon, Greg, Kyle, Nolan, Lance and Coach K a little extra chip on their shoulders...well, all the better.

I'm sure this has probably been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but I can't find it so I'll repeat it. Don't underestimate sports writers fragile feelings when they decide who to make the good guys and whom to make the bad guys.

For example, Bob Huggins was run out of Cincinnati for not graduating his players and getting a DUI. I have no personal knowledge of either of these situations, so it could be that Huggins was doing the best he could to get his guys in class and everyone makes personal mistakes. However, that is plenty to paint him as the "bad guy" if you need to sell a story. But that almost never happens.

Coach K gets all his guys who don't transfer or go the NBA a degree (for a pretty decent school) and pretty much always goes about his business the right way. Even if it is just perception, when you follow recruiting it is often stated or implied that guys who don't really want to be in college but just want to play basketball look at Duke negatively because of K and his demands that kids actually take the student part of student athlete seriously.

But Huggins is the good guy and K is the bad guy. Why? IMO it is because Huggins is nice to the reporters and K can get cranky at press conferences and doesn't give them a lot of access or quotes for their stories. This has nothing to do with the story from a fans perspective, as fans don't go to press conferences.

Delaware
04-03-2010, 07:39 PM
I personally don't understand it and I am not saying it's rational, but part of the issue is Coach K is "everywhere". Duke coach, commercials, K Academy, Olympic coach, Fuqua,... etc.

One example... I was in the car for three hours this morning from about 6 to 9 am and I got two hours of Coach K (whihc of course I loved!). First the Basketball and Beyond show on XM and then when that was over I just happened to switch on the Springsteen channel 58 and who was the guest DJ ? (they let someone do an hour segment and play their favorites with commentary in between).... Coach K! He was great and played some of my favorites, so it was all good... and a great way to pass my time in the car.

But to an outside observer, not a fan of Duke... it might seem like a little much.

JStuart
04-03-2010, 08:01 PM
So, what did Mike choose to play? Inquiring minds, and all that.

hc5duke
04-03-2010, 11:43 PM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recap?gid=201004030173

this AP recap is just awful.


"[Mazzulla] had to wear a new uniform after Zoubek (sic) drew blood while conking him on the head early in the game."

Um, he jumped INTO Singler and hit his jaw


"And those who think Duke has been humbled by its championship drought will certainly look at the replays of Miles Plumlee hanging on the rim way too long after a dunk that drew a technical foul, but also put his team up by 14. A bit of showmanship for a program that routinely has been dissed across America as being too arrogant, too this, too that."

I'm not even going to bother responding to that, but was anyone else thinking "NBA Jam!" when that double-dunk happened?

OldSchool
04-04-2010, 12:00 AM
The AP recap really is awful.


Mazola was starting in place of injured point guard Darryl "Truck" Bryant, who broke his right foot earlier in the tournament and had held out slim hope of playing in Indy. Hard to imagine his presence would have changed much.

I remember Cedric "Cornbread" Maxwell, but this is the first I've heard of Joe "Corn Oil" Mazola.

LSanders
04-04-2010, 12:09 AM
The AP recap really is awful.



I remember Cedric "Cornbread" Maxwell, but this is the first I've heard of Joe "Corn Oil" Mazola.


And, after tonight ... The LAST!!!

Lulu
04-04-2010, 12:11 AM
We might as well give up on ever convincing anyone Duke isn't so bad, because from here on out we're going to be hated like no other team. They couldn't have written a better script pitting us against Butler in Indy. Time to accept our identity and just go with it I guess...

OldSchool
04-04-2010, 12:19 AM
We might as well give up on ever convincing anyone Duke isn't so bad, because from here on out we're going to be hated like no other team. They couldn't have written a better script pitting us against Butler in Indy. Time to accept our identity and just go with it I guess...

Look at it this way -- at least we know that when the game is on the line, they're going to run the "picket fence" play. Makes the scouting report a little easier, so we've got that going for us.

LSanders
04-04-2010, 12:21 AM
If we're the Empire, does that make Gordon Hayward Luke Skywalker?

Of course ... In this sequel, the Empire, again, strikes back, but Luke & Co. strike out!!! :D

Susan
04-04-2010, 12:37 AM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recap?gid=201004030173

this AP recap is just awful.

I thought the same thing when I read it. At least about the beginning of the article and the description of the Plumlee technical. Even my Kentucky grad husband said that he thought Plumlee shouldn't have gotten the technical.

Dr. Tina
04-04-2010, 12:59 AM
But Huggins is the good guy and K is the bad guy. Why? IMO it is because Huggins is nice to the reporters and K can get cranky at press conferences and doesn't give them a lot of access or quotes for their stories. This has nothing to do with the story from a fans perspective, as fans don't go to press conferences.

I totally agree with this! Tonight I had the ESPN live chat up while the games were going on. Andy Katz felt the need to point out how Huggins was sitting in the 2nd media row during the MSU/Butler game, which drives home the fact that he's a "regular guy/coach" because most other elite coaches don't do that. Also, it was either Katz or another ESPN talking head who made it a point in their column about how Huggins is with the press over Coach K. Who cares about any of these statements? They just seem to me to imply that maybe Huggins is viewed more favorably Goodby the media. Last time I checked...a basketball coach's job was to coach his team...not worry about kissing the media's butt!

davekay1971
04-04-2010, 07:41 AM
Irrational and baseless Duke-hate is so ingrained in the national culture now, it's not going anywhere. There are so many factors to it, you almost lose count. And if it was bad before, now we're up against feel-good-story Butler (never mind the fact that Butler's been a legit top-20 team all year, has been a good program for years, and is in the championship game because they're a really good team). Here are some things you can count on:

If we win
1) We were handed the championship by the cabal of CBS and the NCAA (and, probably, Cheney, Rowe, Bush, Big Pharma, the Insurance Industry, and Big Oil).
2) Regardless of all evidence to the contrary, the refs gave it to us.
3) We still suck
4) We played dirty
5) Coach K was so smug and hypocritical as he dared to praise Butler after the game
6) And did you see that one call? (yes, while the refs will, being human, miss a couple calls both way, one call will be picked out by the Haters as the one that just handed us the championship).

If we lose
1) The NCAA/CBS cabal got us into the championship game for ratings, then we were on our own so, of course, we lost
2) the refs still tried to give it to us
3) We sucked all along
4) We still played dirty, but lost anyway
5) Coach K was so smug and hypocritical as he dared to praise our guys after the game
6) And did you see that one call? (see above, but instead the call didn't quite hand us the championship, because, you know, we suck).

Pat Forde was dead-on about one thing in his column today...time for us to know our role in this story. I say we accept it and enjoy it. Yeah, we're the big, bad, Evil Empire. Hopefully this story ends with Luke joining the Dark Side, Solo, Leia, Chewbacca, and the cute little Ewoks dead as the Endor Moon is blown up, Lando Calrissian a puff of vapor in space as the Millenium Falcon is destroyed, and the wierd squid looking guys all dead as the Rebel Fleet is annihilated.

devildownunder
04-04-2010, 08:03 AM
Pat Forde was dead-on about one thing in his column today...time for us to know our role in this story. I say we accept it and enjoy it. Yeah, we're the big, bad, Evil Empire. Hopefully this story ends with Luke joining the Dark Side, Solo, Leia, Chewbacca, and the cute little Ewoks dead as the Endor Moon is blown up, Lando Calrissian a puff of vapor in space as the Millenium Falcon is destroyed, and the wierd squid looking guys all dead as the Rebel Fleet is annihilated.

Aaaaand I now have my new facebook status. Thank you very much! :)

Delaware
04-04-2010, 08:26 AM
So, what did Mike choose to play? Inquiring minds, and all that.

Backstreets from the Born to Run album.
The Rising and and Lonesome Day from The Rising.
A live version of the Land of Hope and Dreams from a concert he went to while doing the Jordon fantasy camp in Vegas in 2002.
A few others...

NYC Duke Fan
04-04-2010, 08:59 AM
Just finished reading a 30 second interview in the NY Times with Brooklyn Decker, the cover girl on this year's SI Swimsuit Issue.

She is a huge Tar Heel Basketball fan and said that it is never a fun feeling watching Duke advance to the Final Four.

Maybe we can just rip off the cover and keep the rest of the issue.....it would be a shame to throw out the whole magazine.

weezie
04-04-2010, 09:06 AM
Last week, during one of the PTIs, Wilbon spoke of his "good friend" Julia Roberts who told him she would rather drink a cup of bleach than watch Duke play for a national title.

Bottoms up Botox Poster Baby!!!

Eckster
04-04-2010, 09:47 AM
Google "Jordan Davidson" and you'll see what I mean under "Images" or look here:

http://www.modelmayhem.com/10837

BD80
04-04-2010, 11:02 AM
If we're the Empire, does that make Gordon Hayward Luke Skywalker?

Of course ... In this sequel, the Empire, again, strikes back, but Luke & Co. strike out!!! :D

Instead of "Luke, I am your father .."

It will be "Who's your daddy?"


... Brooklyn Decker, the cover girl on this year's SI Swimsuit Issue.

She is a huge Tar Heel Basketball fan and said that it is never a fun feeling watching Duke advance to the Final Four.

Maybe we can just rip off the cover and keep the rest of the issue.....it would be a shame to throw out the whole magazine.

Just pull an Indianapolis Star and draw blue horns on her head.


Last week, during one of the PTIs, Wilbon spoke of his "good friend" Julia Roberts who told him she would rather drink a cup of bleach than watch Duke play for a national title.

Bottoms up Botox Poster Baby!!!

I'll buy her the first round ...

Starter
04-04-2010, 11:19 AM
You know, I'm still OK with Brooklyn Decker.

duke79
04-04-2010, 11:27 AM
Yea, I lost whatever interest I might have had in Brooklyn Decker (and what parent names their daughter "Brooklyn"??) when I read her comments in today's NY Times. She comes across as a total moron in that "interview", IMHO.

I'm just curious, though, as to what people on this board think about how many college basketball fans in the country (eliminating Duke alumni) will be rooting for Duke to win tomorrow night - 5% or 10% maybe ?? I have to admit, if I were not a Duke alum, I would be rooting for Butler too.

jtholland
04-04-2010, 11:33 AM
There's something about the topic of this post that bothers me.

Namely, the idea that being hated is a bad thing.

I love Duke. I graduated from there. I bleed Blue. And I love that people hate us. I love listening to people's ludicrous theories about us (Hi Doug Gottlieb!), and laughing in their faces when we beat them. I love watching idiots lose all sense of perspective and rationality when talking about a BASKETBALL GAME played by KIDS. I love it when the haters devolve into the kind of vitriol that you normally only would hear from a juvenile delinquent 9th grader.

I love the fact that haters are put in the position of somehow arguing that a team full of overachievers, who got to class and graduate and play the game with class, are somehow not deserving of respect. It makes it abundantly clear to any objective observer that they have lost their minds in the same way that partisan politics makes people lose their minds.

I love it. Bring on the hatred. Nobody hates a loser.

Go Devils.

-bdbd
04-04-2010, 11:34 AM
Embrace the darkness!!

I am your faaathor Luke. Give in to the daaaark side.



Some people are BORN to the dark side. Others have it thrust upon them. Embrace it. Warm to it. Revel in it. The darkness is coming to Butler. The deathstar is circling the planet...

Dum-dum-dum da-da-dum da-da-dum ....



:D






(OK, if this role is going to be thrust upon us, then enjoy it! Have fun with it. I expect to see posters at the game lampooning it...)

HowBoutDemDevils
04-04-2010, 11:57 AM
The Empire Strikes Back!

oldnavy
04-04-2010, 12:09 PM
Embrace the darkness!!

I am your faaathor Luke. Give in to the daaaark side.



Some people are BORN to the dark side. Others have it thrust upon them. Embrace it. Warm to it. Revel in it. The darkness is coming to Butler. The deathstar is circling the planet...

Dum-dum-dum da-da-dum da-da-dum ....



:D






(OK, if this role is going to be thrust upon us, then enjoy it! Have fun with it. I expect to see posters at the game lampooning it...)


Finally, some company. I have used this tactic for years. I always agree with the haters and their ridiculous ascertains. I sometimes even embellish their theories to see if I can guide them to even more insane claims. Face it you will never convince them that Duke is not evil, so you may as well have some fun with them...

JG Nothing
04-04-2010, 12:20 PM
Yea, I lost whatever interest I might have had in Brooklyn Decker (and what parent names their daughter "Brooklyn"??) when I read her comments in today's NY Times. She comes across as a total moron in that "interview", IMHO.

I'm just curious, though, as to what people on this board think about how many college basketball fans in the country (eliminating Duke alumni) will be rooting for Duke to win tomorrow night - 5% or 10% maybe ?? I have to admit, if I were not a Duke alum, I would be rooting for Butler too.

Given that Duke is among the most popular college basketball teams in the country, probably quite a few.
http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2010/03/15/daily17.html?q=popular%20college%20basketball%20te am

SharkD
04-04-2010, 12:29 PM
This probably goes in the Hatred Tsunami thread, and if deemed as such, feel free to move it, but this just made me livid.

WRAL.com (http://wral.com)'s current top story (http://www.wralsportsfan.com/college_basketball/story/7355564/) teaser laments how Duke threw 'a wet blanket' over the heartwarming tale of WVU's first trip to the Final Four in 51 years and how Duke looks to ruin another 'feel-good story' on Monday night.

http://imgur.com/NCcSh.png

The main story might present the lede as tongue-in-cheek, but the teaser on the front page presents no such context.

--

And last night's post-game coverage was tantamount to them saying, 'How quaint, Duke made the Final Four, making hundreds of Durhamites happy. And, as an added plus, no one died a violent death in Durham today -- that we know of -- isn't that special?'

Sure, they trotted out Bucky Waters, but they made almost as big a deal of his connections to WVU as they did to his history with Duke, and they barely discussed the game, leaving that to the post-game presser feed.

Billy Dat
04-04-2010, 12:32 PM
Dum-dum-dum da-da-dum da-da-dum ....

Every Duke fan in attendance tomorrow night should wear a Darth Vadar mask.

jtholland
04-04-2010, 12:35 PM
Finally, some company. I have used this tactic for years. I always agree with the haters and their ridiculous ascertains. I sometimes even embellish their theories to see if I can guide them to even more insane claims. Face it you will never convince them that Duke is not evil, so you may as well have some fun with them...

Oooo.. I really like this one. Maybe we can make up some of our own, and see if we get them accepted.

Such as Zoubek is actually 27 years old and got a special NCAA exemption. Smith actually was on the Bullet's team when his dad coached there. And so on....

dbdfan
04-04-2010, 12:45 PM
Here's one from the Miami Herald today...must be a UM grad.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/30/1555928/duke-despised-and-it-starts-with.html

Although the comments take him to task fairly nicely!

Apology in today's Miami Herald...Not from Gutierrez himself though.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/04/04/1561297/writing-humor-is-a-tough-task.html

Kimist
04-04-2010, 12:47 PM
So does any of this come as a great surprise, considering the source is WRAL of Raleigh???

I guess they could not get John Edwards, one of their all-time favs, to render his opinions - can't they sue Zoubek?!? - of no merit.

k

DukeUsul
04-04-2010, 12:48 PM
The by-line on that story lists the writer as the AP national writer. So it looks like your beef may be with the AP not WRAL, who is just re-posting. I get your point and I agree that we don't always get great support from local media, but in this case I'm not sure that's the reason.

Onlyduke
04-04-2010, 12:50 PM
WRAL wouldn't be talking about "throwing a wet blanket on WVU" or "ruining another 'feel-good' story if Carolina were playing in our place tomorrow night. I am SO sick of all this bias!

alteran
04-04-2010, 12:51 PM
There was an incident that involved Christian Laettner and "head dribble" but it was CL's head being "dribbled". In the 1991 NCAA tournament vs UConn, Rod Sellers got mad at Christian for something and started banging his head on the floor. Duke wins over UConn in 1990 and 1991 made the Huskies early haters of Duke (though that's a group that got its revenge on the court in 1999 and 2004).

Some of this Duke hate stuff is truly a mix of urban legend and untruths dating back 20 years and more.

Please note, Sellars was not assessed a technical or foul for that act either. (He was later disciplined, however.)

But Duke gets all the calls.

devilboomer
04-04-2010, 12:55 PM
so let me get this straight...

If Duke loses to an underdog, people bemoan the downfall of Duke and another epic meltdown.

If Duke beats an underdog, the media labels us as villains for ruining yet another feel-good story.

We're screwed either way. Guess we'll just go out there and play some basketball then.

SharkD
04-04-2010, 12:55 PM
The by-line on that story lists the writer as the AP national writer. So it looks like your beef may be with the AP not WRAL, who is just re-posting. I get your point and I agree that we don't always get great support from local media, but in this case I'm not sure that's the reason.

I hadn't noticed the byline -- allergy medication has me feeling a little fuzzy of late.

If anything, it's even more embarrassing -- were the team in pale blue playing in Indy, they'd have four or five locally-sourced articles on the front page. Instead, we get a video segment of Gravelly and Bucky Waters from last night's broadcast and an AP wire story.

I would expect as much from the Paducah Herald-Sun, but not from the dominant local news station, whose network is exclusively carrying the games.

Relics
04-04-2010, 12:55 PM
I recall Ol' Roy saying something to the effect of, "If a Michigan State win [UNC loss] means the economy of Detroit makes a comeback, we're going to have to stay in this recession for a while."

Surely WRAL understands the concept of tough cookies.

proelitedota
04-04-2010, 12:58 PM
Players play their best when it's personal reasons that are motivating them, and our Duke Team certainly has no shortage of them. "Playing for the sake of your state/city", isn't going to get you anywhere. It is not a good motivating factor because it is a farce shoved on to the players by reporters etc. The biggest draw to WVU's story was that Huggins and WVU were supposed to win it for the poor and "suffering" people of the state of WV, and instead they lost in a convincing fashion.

DBFAN
04-04-2010, 01:04 PM
Last week, during one of the PTIs, Wilbon spoke of his "good friend" Julia Roberts who told him she would rather drink a cup of bleach than watch Duke play for a national title.

Bottoms up Botox Poster Baby!!!

Thats OK Julia, I would rather watch one of your movies, than see UNC play for a National title

tele
04-04-2010, 01:43 PM
Last week, during one of the PTIs, Wilbon spoke of his "good friend" Julia Roberts who told him she would rather drink a cup of bleach than watch Duke play for a national title.

Bottoms up Botox Poster Baby!!!

So that's how she got that expression on her face, I always thought it was the result of unfortunate cosmetic surgery.

Richard Berg
04-04-2010, 02:56 PM
Players play their best when it's personal reasons that are motivating them, and our Duke Team certainly has no shortage of them. "Playing for the sake of your state/city", isn't going to get you anywhere. It is not a good motivating factor because it is a farce shoved on to the players by reporters etc. The biggest draw to WVU's story was that Huggins and WVU were supposed to win it for the poor and "suffering" people of the state of WV, and instead they lost in a convincing fashion.
If we start pulling for every team to go thru a little adversity here & there, those stories wouldn't be heartwarming anymore. Just boring.

I submit that having New Orleans win the Super Bowl is karma enough for the 2010 sports gods. Hey WV: try having your entire city nearly wiped off the map by a natural disaster, then we'll talk. Until then, Go Duke.

Luckily, this one is already behind us. Next play.

Hermy-own
04-04-2010, 03:33 PM
DBR's homepage has a link to a Bob Ryan article. In an otherwise fine article Ryan accidentally (I think) uses the word 'I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ies'. Take the link down?

EDIT: Ok, DBR word blocker. Let me spell this out. D-O-__-K-I-E-S. That is the word Bob Ryan used. Don't say it in front of your kids.

mph
04-04-2010, 03:49 PM
Apology in today's Miami Herald...Not from Gutierrez himself though.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/04/04/1561297/writing-humor-is-a-tough-task.html

Good for them. At least the Miami Herald's ombudsman is taking the journalistic integrity of his paper seriously. I still can't believe the original piece got past an editor's desk.

Channing
04-04-2010, 04:03 PM
wow. sometimes, no matter what, you just cant win. On the WVU board there is a guy saying that when Butler went down the Duke fans started chanting "Its All Over." Please. It was clear as daylight through the TV we were chanting Da'Sean Butler, and yet, the haters try and distort a clearly "classy" gesture by the Duke fans and make it despicable.

PhillyDuke
04-04-2010, 04:11 PM
I just say to all the haters, and I know a whole bunch of them:

"WE'RE DUKE AND THAT'S THAT...GET IT RIGHT!!!"

It drives 'em crazy...I love it!!!

wacobluedevil
04-04-2010, 04:46 PM
After reading the whole story the wet blanket opening seems to me to be less a case of true animus than a reporter trying to find a personal angle to the story (it falls flat, to be sure).

Eckster
04-04-2010, 06:48 PM
After reading the whole story the wet blanket opening seems to me to be less a case of true animus than a reporter trying to find a personal angle to the story (it falls flat, to be sure).

Forget about it. The media is just looking for an angle. I'll wear my National Championship t-shirt regardless of what the media thinks about it.

diesel
04-04-2010, 07:04 PM
What's the story about the phrase "I'm a real wanker for saying this"? It kept being added to some draft DBR post of mine a month or two ago, and I swear I wasn't using questionable language. Does this phrase get added by the moderators?

Native
04-04-2010, 07:13 PM
What's the story about the phrase "I'm a real wanker for saying this"? It kept being added to some draft DBR post of mine a month or two ago, and I swear I wasn't using questionable language. Does this phrase get added by the moderators?

It's DBR's language filter. You type a swear word (or any word on a list hidden somewhere -- most likely in the basement of the Davidson household, so no one can get to it), and the board replaces your invective with "I'm a real wanker for saying this."

KYtotheCore
04-04-2010, 08:25 PM
Did this really happen? If so, good for K handling it with the class he did.

http://www.terezowens.com/indianopolis-star-apologizes-for-coach-k-devil-picture/

DukeDevilDeb
04-04-2010, 08:26 PM
Did this really happen? If so, good for K handling it with the class he did.

http://www.terezowens.com/indianopolis-star-apologizes-for-coach-k-devil-picture/

Take a look in the tsunami thread.

NYDukie
04-04-2010, 08:44 PM
Embrace the hate! I at first found all the hate articles, comments annoying, etc. I know find myself looking for them to get a good laugh. Most of the haters are jealous and looking for something to be critical of but because they have a tough time finding it, it just makes them hate more. Hopefully, this Duke team closes the deal tomorrow and this leads to more hate and the Duke truck gets rolling for the next "X" number of years and they all cry more.

And one more thing, I'm soooo tired of the David verse Goliath thing. This Butler team was preseason ranked around #10 and Top 20 all year or most of it so I don't get this. To me, it's hypocritical of the media and disrespectful to Butler for them to be portrayed as this lil team that could that was in fact highly regarding to start the season and throughout the year by the same said media.

Exiled_Devil
04-04-2010, 09:35 PM
What's the story about the phrase "I'm a real wanker for saying this"? It kept being added to some draft DBR post of mine a month or two ago, and I swear I wasn't using questionable language. Does this phrase get added by the moderators?

The most common reason it pops up is when people spell Duke with a double O or Dukies with a double O.

weezie
04-04-2010, 09:36 PM
It's DBR's language filter. You type a swear word (or any word on a list hidden somewhere -- most likely in the basement of the Davidson household, so no one can get to it), and the board replaces your invective with "I'm a real wanker for saying this."

Clever and clever-er!:)

House G
04-04-2010, 09:42 PM
And one more thing, I'm soooo tired of the David verse Goliath thing. This Butler team was preseason ranked around #10 and Top 20 all year or most of it so I don't get this. To me, it's hypocritical of the media and disrespectful to Butler for them to be portrayed as this lil team that could that was in fact highly regarding to start the season and throughout the year by the same said media.

Was Jay Bilas the one who started this?

_Gary
04-04-2010, 10:15 PM
And one more thing, I'm soooo tired of the David verse Goliath thing. This Butler team was preseason ranked around #10 and Top 20 all year or most of it so I don't get this. To me, it's hypocritical of the media and disrespectful to Butler for them to be portrayed as this lil team that could that was in fact highly regarding to start the season and throughout the year by the same said media.Was Jay Bilas the one who started this?

I'm not sure. All I know is that Kellogg mentioned it toward the end of the Duke/WVU game once the outcome was a sure thing. He was very specific with that analogy, and Nantz agreed without hesitation. Whether or not someone mentioned it as a possibility before the game was even played I have no idea. But Clark and Jim definitely mentioned it as the game was winding down.

BTW, my take on that analogy is that it puts Duke in another "damned if you do, damned if you don't" category. If they win on Monday they were only doing what they were supposed to do and it's no big deal. In fact many will just point to their "weak" opponent (not that I think Butler is weak at all) and say the fates, or refs, handed us a cupcake. On the other hand, if we lose, it will be a choke job and/or a "See, we told you Duke wasn't very good" situation. Once that analogy was invoked we were in a no win situation in the eyes of the pundits.


Gary

FerryFor50
04-04-2010, 10:16 PM
I'm not sure. All I know is that Kellogg mentioned it toward the end of the Duke/WVU game once the outcome was a sure thing. He was very specific with that analogy, and Nantz agreed without hesitation. Whether or not someone mentioned it as a possibility before the game was semi-final was even played I have no idea. But Clark and Jim definitely mentioned it as the game was winding down.

BTW, my take on that analogy is that it puts Duke in another "damned if you do, damned if you don't" category. If they win on Monday they were only doing what they were supposed to do and it's no big deal. In fact many will just point to their "weak" opponent (not that I think Butler is weak at all) and say the fates, or refs, handed us a cupcake. On the other hand, if we lose, it will be a choke job and/or a "See, we told you Duke wasn't very good" situation. Once that analogy was invoked we were in a no win situation in the eyes of the pundits.


Gary

At this point, I don't care who hands us the cupcake. I just want to EAT THE CUPCAKE! :D

_Gary
04-04-2010, 10:18 PM
At this point, I don't care who hands us the cupcake. I just want to EAT THE CUPCAKE! :D

Agreed!!! ;)

devildownunder
04-04-2010, 10:23 PM
I'm not sure. All I know is that Kellogg mentioned it toward the end of the Duke/WVU game once the outcome was a sure thing. He was very specific with that analogy, and Nantz agreed without hesitation. Whether or not someone mentioned it as a possibility before the game was even played I have no idea. But Clark and Jim definitely mentioned it as the game was winding down.

BTW, my take on that analogy is that it puts Duke in another "damned if you do, damned if you don't" category. If they win on Monday they were only doing what they were supposed to do and it's no big deal. In fact many will just point to their "weak" opponent (not that I think Butler is weak at all) and say the fates, or refs, handed us a cupcake. On the other hand, if we lose, it will be a choke job and/or a "See, we told you Duke wasn't very good" situation. Once that analogy was invoked we were in a no win situation in the eyes of the pundits.


Gary


We've been in a no-win situation with the court of public opinion – and the members of the media driving it – since 2002.

FerryFor50
04-04-2010, 10:26 PM
We've been a no-win situation with the court of public opinion – and the members of the media driving it – since 2002.

Since 2002?

I'm pretty sure it's been longer than that. Unless that was the time when people FINALLY got sick of seeing Laettner's "shot" against KY.

Mudge
04-04-2010, 10:54 PM
Wow, going after a guy's game is really hitting below the belt.

I continue to be disappointed at the level of discourse many of you feel you need to make a point. That said, you continue to miss mine: if you play in the sandbox, you get dirty. 1) Has Mike Krzyzewski ever spoken out against Huggins' poor behavior and wretched graduation rates? Has he ever used his bully pulpit to address the many objectionable things he knows go on in college basketball? 2) Or even to address the lacrosse situation on his own campus?
I have never said that Mike wasn't an exceptional coach. But 3) I will say that most of the coaches and players I've known who think they've been treated unfairly will tell you that to your face.

1) So which is the better approach: to stand on a soapbox, issuing holier-than-thou pronouncements (fully justified, in my opinion) condemning the unethical and exploitative behavior of the vast majority of other college basketball coaches and schools-- which would be met immediately by shrieks of indignation from the coaches, alumni, fans, and journalists of these other schools, which are abiding by neither the letter nor the spirit of the rules... or to run a program which is a shining example of how one can excel on the field of play, and yet not flout the rules nor exploit the players in the program. Duke and K already are a constant goad and prod to the Huggins' of the world to step up to a higher level of existence, and do more than the bare minimum with/for the participants in the system.

2) Jon Pessah has reiterated his trumped up charge (that K failed to act as a university leader during the lacrosse case) in several pieces since that incident; Pessah's position (his opinion really, as it mostly consists of his own, not very well reasoned view of some widely known facts) is pretty thin gruel-- he accepts none of K's explanation for why K acted as he did during the lacrosse incident. So, who are we to believe: the writer with the non-mainstream opinion that K shrank from leadership during the incident... or K, who is widely known for taking (not always popular) leadership positions on social issues, who has become a noted thought leader in the nuances of exercising leadership, and who has been studying leadership at the equivalent of a post-doctoral level, ever since graduating from West Point's leadership laboratory?

3) Last (and most laughable-- though also most revealing, as it finally explains why Pessah has been at pains to emphasize that he will be "rooting for West Virginia" against Duke), Pessah reveals his discontent with being shunned by K and the rest of the Duke basketball administration... Dude, do you really need a tete-a`-tete meeting on why you no longer have access to the Duke basketball family, after your hatchet job on K? Of course you are persona non grata-- you've already figured it out for yourself. No matter how convinced you remain of the flawed conclusions that you drew from the unprecedented access that you say you were granted, why do you think you are owed (or even worthy of) a personal explanation of their outrage at the fallacies they perceive you to be propagating? Join that goofball (Gregg Doyel) in Arizona who tried to write an unauthorized biography of K, and now spends his time (when not getting silly haircuts) raging against the arrogance and imperiousness of K and Duke basketball, because he was shut down like the clown that he is. Do you think the Queen of England spends any time answering Mohamed al-Fayed's long-standing, delusional contention that the Royal family is somehow responsible for the death of his two-bit, worthless son in the Princess Diana traffic accident? K is the King, and you're al-Fayed, here. As a result, you are left (due to your greatly diminished soapbox) to express your pitiful outrage, by making a point of supporting the coach who represents in spades everything you say you abhor in sports. If ever the phrase "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" applied, this is a case. Petulance, thy name is Pessah.

FerryFor50
04-04-2010, 11:07 PM
1) So which is the better approach: to stand on a soapbox, issuing holier-than-thou pronouncements (fully justified, in my opinion) condemning the unethical and exploitative behavior of the vast majority of other college basketball coaches and schools-- which would be met immediately by shrieks of indignation from the coaches, alumni, fans, and journalists of these other schools, which are abiding by neither the letter nor the spirit of the rules... or to run a program which is a shining example of how one can excel on the field of play, and yet not flout the rules nor exploit the players in the program. Duke and K already are a constant goad and prod to the Huggins' of the world to step up to a higher level of existence, and do more than the bare minimum with/for the participants in the system.

2) Jon Pessah has reiterated his trumped up charge (that K failed to act as a university leader during the lacrosse case) in several pieces since that incident; Pessah's position (his opinion really, as it mostly consists of his own, not very well reasoned view of some widely known facts) is pretty thin gruel-- he accepts none of K's explanation for why K acted as he did during the lacrosse incident. So, who are we to believe: the writer with the non-mainstream opinion that K shrank from leadership during the incident... or K, who is widely known for taking (not always popular) leadership positions on social issues, who has become a noted thought leader in the nuances of exercising leadership, and who has been studying leadership at the equivalent of a post-doctoral level, ever since graduating from West Point's leadership laboratory?

3) Last (and most laughable-- though also most revealing, as it finally explains why Pessah has been at pains to emphasize that he will be "rooting for West Virginia" against Duke), Pessah reveals his discontent with being shunned by K and the rest of the Duke basketball administration... Dude, do you really need a tete-a`-tete meeting on why you no longer have access to the Duke basketball family, after your hatchet job on K? Of course you are persona non grata-- you've already figured it out for yourself. No matter how convinced you remain of the flawed conclusions that you drew from the unprecedented access that you say you were granted, why do you think you are owed (or even worthy of) a personal explanation of their outrage at the fallacies they perceive you to be propagating? Join that goofball (Gregg Doyel) in Arizona who tried to write an unauthorized biography of K, and now spends his time (when not getting silly haircuts) raging against the arrogance and imperiousness of K and Duke basketball, because he was shut down like the clown that he is. Do you think the Queen of England spends any time answering Mohamed al-Fayed's long-standing, delusional contention that the Royal family is somehow responsible for the death of his two-bit, worthless son in the Princess Diana traffic accident? K is the King, and you're al-Fayed, here. As a result, you are left (due to your greatly diminished soapbox) to express your pitiful outrage, by making a point of supporting the coach who represents in spades everything you say you abhor in sports. If ever the phrase "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" applied, this is a case. Petulance, thy name is Pessah.

I had no idea who this clown Jon Pessah was, so I googled him. First hit - his blog.

Not much content (last entry in August of 2009 where he advertises his move to a new site). But the dummy did decide to leave this little nugget up, which I found oh so apropos...


Krzyzewski and the Olympics

News reports this week have Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski signing up for a second tour with the Olympic team.

Prediction: K will be out of Duke before the opening tap of the next Olympic basketball tournament.

Simply, there is no where to go but down for him at Duke, where he has not been able to attract top talent since Roy Williams took up shop eight miles down the road. Look, there are just so many sons of NBA basketball players and coaches to go around. K has not landed a big man prospect since Elton Brand, who left early, and Carlos Boozer, whose draft value was destroyed in K’s guard-oriented system. He was not able to hold on to Eliot Williams this offseason and his interest in all-but-certain one-and-done John Wall tells you a lot about how his recruiting is going.

The top players no longer have to buy into the team-comes-first concept that K peddles ( a concept that took a big hit when he turned his back on the university during the lacrosse scandal). They realize it’s a business, the same way K does, and it has changed the playing field. The question is at age 62, can K adjust? Does he still even want to?

I wrote about this two years ago in ESPN Magazine as K headed into his first Olympics.http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3373328. Not much has changed.

K’s recent failures at recruiting and the resultant early exits in the NCAA tournament are hurting his “brand,” something he has worked tirelessly to polish and promote. Losing in the first weekend of the NCAAs can only tarnish the image. Winning gold medals gets you endorsements.

You figure it out.


Hi-la-ri-ous.

coldriver10
04-04-2010, 11:18 PM
I had no idea who this clown Jon Pessah was, so I googled him. First hit - his blog.

Not much content (last entry in August of 2009 where he advertises his move to a new site). But the dummy did decide to leave this little nugget up, which I found oh so apropos...



Hi-la-ri-ous.
While I obviously don't agree with what Mr. Pessah wrote, I can see where he was coming from on that. And that's what you're supposed to do as a journalist/blogger...come up with opinions and theories and run with it. They're going to get things wrong from time to time, and I don't mind it when they do as long as they correct their mistake.

Just my opinion.

FerryFor50
04-04-2010, 11:20 PM
While I obviously don't agree with what Mr. Pessah wrote, I can see where he was coming from on that. And that's what you're supposed to do as a journalist/blogger...come up with opinions and theories and run with it. They're going to get things wrong from time to time, and I don't mind it when they do as long as they correct their mistake.

Just my opinion.

It was completely off-base. K never has given an indication he'd be leaving, and it was just another attempt by a Duke hater to pile on, despite the fact that the teams were still winning 30 games a year and taking the ACC titles. And while many people think it hurt recruiting in the short term, I'm of the opinion it helped in the long term. He came out of it smelling like roses, with guys like Lebron and Kobe singing his praises.

Starter
04-04-2010, 11:48 PM
Pessah was right. It is a disgrace Krzyewski was "not able to hold on to Eliot Williams," who moved back home to help his mother deal with cancer.

I like this part too:


The top players no longer have to buy into the team-comes-first concept that K peddles (a concept that took a big hit when he turned his back on the university during the lacrosse scandal). They realize it’s a business, the same way K does, and it has changed the playing field. The question is at age 62, can K adjust? Does he still even want to?

Nonsensical, artificial profundity -- and wishful thinking -- thy name is Pessah. Enjoy the game tomorrow, my dude.

FerryFor50
04-04-2010, 11:52 PM
Pessah was right. It is a disgrace Krzyewski was "not able to hold on to Eliot Williams," who moved back home to help his mother deal with cancer.

I like this part too:



Nonsensical, artificial profundity -- and wishful thinking -- thy name is Pessah. Enjoy the game tomorrow, my dude.

Oh wow, I must have glossed over that. What a tool.

devildownunder
04-05-2010, 12:35 AM
Last week, during one of the PTIs, Wilbon spoke of his "good friend" Julia Roberts who told him she would rather drink a cup of bleach than watch Duke play for a national title.

Bottoms up Botox Poster Baby!!!

????? Julia Roberts? Where on earth is that coming from?

dukebluelemur
04-05-2010, 04:24 AM
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

Simple as that I think...

oldnavy
04-05-2010, 06:24 AM
1) So which is the better approach: to stand on a soapbox, issuing holier-than-thou pronouncements (fully justified, in my opinion) condemning the unethical and exploitative behavior of the vast majority of other college basketball coaches and schools-- which would be met immediately by shrieks of indignation from the coaches, alumni, fans, and journalists of these other schools, which are abiding by neither the letter nor the spirit of the rules... or to run a program which is a shining example of how one can excel on the field of play, and yet not flout the rules nor exploit the players in the program. Duke and K already are a constant goad and prod to the Huggins' of the world to step up to a higher level of existence, and do more than the bare minimum with/for the participants in the system.

2) Jon Pessah has reiterated his trumped up charge (that K failed to act as a university leader during the lacrosse case) in several pieces since that incident; Pessah's position (his opinion really, as it mostly consists of his own, not very well reasoned view of some widely known facts) is pretty thin gruel-- he accepts none of K's explanation for why K acted as he did during the lacrosse incident. So, who are we to believe: the writer with the non-mainstream opinion that K shrank from leadership during the incident... or K, who is widely known for taking (not always popular) leadership positions on social issues, who has become a noted thought leader in the nuances of exercising leadership, and who has been studying leadership at the equivalent of a post-doctoral level, ever since graduating from West Point's leadership laboratory?

3) Last (and most laughable-- though also most revealing, as it finally explains why Pessah has been at pains to emphasize that he will be "rooting for West Virginia" against Duke), Pessah reveals his discontent with being shunned by K and the rest of the Duke basketball administration... Dude, do you really need a tete-a`-tete meeting on why you no longer have access to the Duke basketball family, after your hatchet job on K? Of course you are persona non grata-- you've already figured it out for yourself. No matter how convinced you remain of the flawed conclusions that you drew from the unprecedented access that you say you were granted, why do you think you are owed (or even worthy of) a personal explanation of their outrage at the fallacies they perceive you to be propagating? Join that goofball (Gregg Doyel) in Arizona who tried to write an unauthorized biography of K, and now spends his time (when not getting silly haircuts) raging against the arrogance and imperiousness of K and Duke basketball, because he was shut down like the clown that he is. Do you think the Queen of England spends any time answering Mohamed al-Fayed's long-standing, delusional contention that the Royal family is somehow responsible for the death of his two-bit, worthless son in the Princess Diana traffic accident? K is the King, and you're al-Fayed, here. As a result, you are left (due to your greatly diminished soapbox) to express your pitiful outrage, by making a point of supporting the coach who represents in spades everything you say you abhor in sports. If ever the phrase "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" applied, this is a case. Petulance, thy name is Pessah.
I see that Pessah took my advice and gave up trying to match wits with MUDGE. Talk about a cake walk! MUDGE clearly dissected each of his idiotic claims to the point that he had no retort! Well done MUDGE, well done.

A side note and question: I have looked at that photo of Greg Doyle and I believe that he is bald, and that it is just a weird angle that picks up a guy's hair behind him to make it appear that he is wearing a Mohawk. Are there other more definitive reports of him sporting a Mohawk?

devildownunder
04-05-2010, 06:55 AM
Since 2002?

I'm pretty sure it's been longer than that. Unless that was the time when people FINALLY got sick of seeing Laettner's "shot" against KY.

From my vantage point -- which, admittedly, has always been outside the state of north carolina -- the real frenzy of Duke hatred really took off after 2001 Final Four game against Maryland. People hated Laettner, especially in Kentucky :), but that team was very well liked by a lot of people. In 1991, Duke was "the good guys" against Unlv's "bad guys." And the young men at unlv were labelled just as broadly as those at Duke.

Gregg Doyel, of all people, actually had a good piece about the turnaround. I linked to it on the media love 'em/hate 'em thread.

blueprofessor
04-05-2010, 07:32 AM
Good read:http://www.realclearsports.com/articles/2010/04/05/hating_duke_is_real_national_pastime_96923.html





Best regards. Blueprofessor:)

diesel
04-05-2010, 10:01 AM
Why the wanker treatment? According to The Native, It's DBR's language filter. “You type a swear word (or any word on a list hidden somewhere -- most likely in the basement of the Davidson household, so no one can get to it), and the board replaces your invective with "I'm a real wanker for saying this." According to Exiled Devil, “The most common reason it pops up is when people spell Duke with a double O or Dukies with a double O.

So the double oo word gets the wanker treatment? That will teach me not to cite the kerlina people on DBR! (But I guess that’s not going to happen for the foreseeable future anyway!)

And I’m interested to hear the Davidson family is the guardian of words that merit the wanker treatment. I’ll just have to flatter them (note I didn’t say s*ck up to, since it might get the wanker treatment).

So in this spirit, back to the Davidsons. Usually I don’t watch too closely when we’re into stall ball at the end of games—(apart from wondering whether we’re going to incur yet another time violation!) But the end of the West Virginia game was different and I just wasn’t concentrating. So where can I see a replay of Jordan Davidson hitting that three at the end of the game?

As a final note, I’m looking forward to tonight’s game. It’ll be a change from us blowing out directional state patsies like North Carolina and West Virginia! On to Butler!

LSanders
04-05-2010, 11:15 AM
Very nice article, Blueprofessor ... Thanks for the link!!

My favorite section:


Mike Krzyzewski took one of the most difficult jobs in the country in 1980 - coaching at a college with strong academics just 10 miles from his main rival, who only happened to be Dean Smith and North Carolina, and has won, won consistently on the conference and national level, recruited cleanly, graduated nearly all of his players, was an assistant coach on the original U.S. Olympic Dream Team and head coach on the 2008 gold medal Redeemers. And for this, he's the bad guy? In a matchup with Bob Huggins, whose players throughout his career have attended far more arraignments than commencements?

dball
04-05-2010, 11:22 AM
Headlines say it all:

Columbus Dispatch goes with

"Krzyzewski sees no slipper on Butler"

while NY Times on same story says

"Krzyzewski Bridles at Butler as Cinderella"

First, very reasonable and descriptive of the press conference comments where a smiling Krzyzewski states he thinks Butler is an accomplished team.

Essentially the same story in the Times (of lacrosse fame) also adds the term "bristles" to the opening paragraph.

Columbus article written by an Indiana sportswriter by the way.

BlueDevilCorvette!
04-05-2010, 11:41 AM
I guess it depends on how they said those things. I've made jokes to patients who wear UNC stuff in the hospital/clinic, saying "It's okay, we'll take care of you anyway." But I say it with a smile and obviously mean it in a lighthearted way, and it oftentimes breaks the ice. I can see the examples you gave being lighthearted ribbing or mean-spirited, all depending on how they said it.

That's true...I think the lady was kidding but the Lowe's employee put bass in his voice and didn't even crack a smile! Either way, I don't think it's proper to make jokes related to ones injury or medical related problems. I guess some fans now see it's not so funny when the shoe is on the other foot.

BlueDevilCorvette!
04-05-2010, 11:48 AM
Just finished reading a 30 second interview in the NY Times with Brooklyn Decker, the cover girl on this year's SI Swimsuit Issue.

She is a huge Tar Heel Basketball fan and said that it is never a fun feeling watching Duke advance to the Final Four.

Maybe we can just rip off the cover and keep the rest of the issue.....it would be a shame to throw out the whole magazine.

"I think" Brooklyn Decker went to Butler High School in Matthews, NC which is right outside of Charlotte, hence she was either going to be raised as a Duke or UNC fan thus this explains her feelings toward Duke (I guess).

BlueDevilCorvette!
04-05-2010, 11:54 AM
I'm not sure. All I know is that Kellogg mentioned it toward the end of the Duke/WVU game once the outcome was a sure thing. He was very specific with that analogy, and Nantz agreed without hesitation. Whether or not someone mentioned it as a possibility before the game was even played I have no idea. But Clark and Jim definitely mentioned it as the game was winding down.

BTW, my take on that analogy is that it puts Duke in another "damned if you do, damned if you don't" category. If they win on Monday they were only doing what they were supposed to do and it's no big deal. In fact many will just point to their "weak" opponent (not that I think Butler is weak at all) and say the fates, or refs, handed us a cupcake. On the other hand, if we lose, it will be a choke job and/or a "See, we told you Duke wasn't very good" situation. Once that analogy was invoked we were in a no win situation in the eyes of the pundits.


Gary

(IF)When Duke is holding that NCCAT championship trophy over their heads...people can't say squat! They can hate all they want but you can't take that trophy out their hands.

DukeDevilDeb
04-05-2010, 11:54 AM
We've been in a no-win situation with the court of public opinion – and the members of the media driving it – since 2002.

It's been since 1986 and the first appearance in the title game!

GO DUKE!

Matches
04-05-2010, 12:03 PM
"I think" Brooklyn Decker went to Butler High School in Matthews, NC which is right outside of Charlotte, hence she was either going to be raised as a Duke or UNC fan thus this explains her feelings toward Duke (I guess).

The lovely Ms. Decker is in fact a Matthews product.

And she gets a pass on hating Duke because she is ridiculously hot. :D

sivartrenrag
04-05-2010, 12:10 PM
http://img.moronail.net/img/5/7/1257.jpg

-bdbd
04-05-2010, 12:33 PM
(IF)When Duke is holding that NCCAT championship trophy over their heads...people can't say squat! They can hate all they want but you can't take that trophy out their hands.

Agree 100%.
Win the trophy, take it home. Leave the very small "hater" people muttering to themselves. And smile!

Job done.


:o

HowBoutDemDevils
04-05-2010, 01:03 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2010/columns/story?id=5056999

Is it a sin to pick us to win? My god. They wouldn't choose us even if we were playing against a paralympics team.

oldnavy
04-05-2010, 01:08 PM
I am sure I am speaking for myself, and this may belong in the Duke Hatred Tsunami thread,

BUT I am kind of warming up to the villian role. Is anyone else out there getting used to being cast as the bad guy? There is really nothing that we can do about it is there? I have gone on record as saying the best defense is to agree with all of the idiotic claims, and even embelish them to beyond absurd just to have fun and do a little mind freaking.

I went to Maui in 2008 when UNC won it. I had so much fun talking to UNC fans and leading them on in discussions about what evil people Duke fans were. You should have seen their faces when I would drop the bomb on them that I was a Dukie! My wife (a tarheel) would just look at me and shake her head!! Of course, they would get over it really quick and we both would have a laugh (didn't meet a bad UNC fan on the whole trip), but it is much less tiring and much more fun to play along with the hate...

Speaking of which, if you get the chance GO TO MAUI in 2011 - by far the best time I have ever had, and Duke wasn't even there!!!

devildownunder
04-05-2010, 01:22 PM
It's been since 1986 and the first appearance in the title game!

GO DUKE!

I haven't noticed this at all. You always pick up some haters whenever you have some success (ask fans of other Horizon League teams what they think about Butler and I'll bet you'll find a bunch of them wouldn't mind seeing the Bulldogs get smoked on Monday night).

But the widespread, national, venomous hatred of Duke wasn't something I noticed until about 15 year after you did. What were you seeing back in 1986?

CDu
04-05-2010, 01:27 PM
I haven't noticed this at all. You always pick up some haters whenever you have some success (ask fans of other Horizon League teams what they think about Butler and I'll bet you'll find a bunch of them wouldn't mind seeing the Bulldogs get smoked on Monday night).

But the widespread, national, venomous hatred of Duke wasn't something I noticed until about 15 year after you did. What were you seeing back in 1986?

I agree. We were absolutely the fan favorites in 1991 compared to UNLV. Despite being the small-conference team, they were considered the big, bad wolf and we were the team that didn't have a chance. Even Billy Packer was basically cheering for us in the
broadcast.

Maybe perceptions started to change in 1992 with the Laettner incident and against a particular UK team that was hard to hate (the fifth-year seniors that stayed with the program in spite of the NCAA sanctions). And folks definitely celebrated the Cal upset in 1993. But even then, I don't think it was nearly as bad as things got in the late-90s/early-00s.

northernduke
04-05-2010, 01:35 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2010/columns/story?id=5056999

Is it a sin to pick us to win? My god. They wouldn't choose us even if we were playing against a paralympics team.

Are you serious??? (kidding). I actually like that we weren't picked by all of the ESPN pundits. I'd rather have our praises sung if we win. No fun being the favorite going away!

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-05-2010, 01:35 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2010/columns/story?id=5056999

Is it a sin to pick us to win? My god. They wouldn't choose us even if we were playing against a paralympics team.

HAHA Hey they haven't been choose us all year, why start now.

CDu
04-05-2010, 01:44 PM
Are you serious??? (kidding). I actually like that we weren't picked by all of the ESPN pundits. I'd rather have our praises sung if we win. No fun being the favorite going away!

It's not very interesting to pick the favorite. If Butler wins, they can crow about it later. If Butler loses, they'll just say they figured Duke would win anyway.

And honestly, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans either way.

killerleft
04-05-2010, 02:54 PM
Are you serious??? (kidding). I actually like that we weren't picked by all of the ESPN pundits. I'd rather have our praises sung if we win. No fun being the favorite going away!

Punditry is highly overrated. How many so-called experts gave Duke, let alone Butler, a chance to be playing for the title. No more than half will probably get it right even when they only have two teams from which to choose.

CDu
04-05-2010, 03:18 PM
Punditry is highly overrated. How many so-called experts gave Duke, let alone Butler, a chance to be playing for the title. No more than half will probably get it right even when they only have two teams from which to choose.

Note as well that these "experts" are nothing more than sports writers. I give them about as much cred as experts as the typical sports fan. They just get better seats.

Jim3k
04-05-2010, 06:35 PM
Note as well that these "experts" are nothing more than sports writers. I give them about as much cred as experts as the typical sports fan. They just get better seats.


Well, here's a guy from the West Coast (Bay Area) and even though he prefers a Butler win, he's far from a Duke hater. Monte Poole. (http://www.contracostatimes.com/college-sports/ci_14820323?nclick_check=1)

oldnavy
04-05-2010, 07:22 PM
The lovely Ms. Decker is in fact a Matthews product.

And she gets a pass on hating Duke because she is ridiculously hot. :D

She gets a pass because she is a UNC fan. I can understand the hate from our arch rival, it is the rest of the people that hate us for no good reason that perplexes me, or should I say used to perplex me until I accepted the role of bad guy!

SFDukie
04-05-2010, 07:44 PM
An anecdote from the regional final:
A week ago yesterday, I was in a sports bar/restaurant on Santa Monica Blvd in LA watching the Baylor game with a non Duke friend. Everyone was rooting for Baylor or against Duke among the smallish crowd, save for me, until the second half when the previously unengaged proprietor said "pick Duke all the way" when the devils were making their second half run. I said "you tell 'em Lisa". One of the viewers turned around, and addressed me saying: "you must be a doctor or a lawyer".

Guilty as charged. We're perceived as privileged, and that goes a long way towards explaining the hatred. The Cornells, Penns and Stanfords of hoops aren't consistently good enough to be hated as well.

Newton_14
04-05-2010, 07:58 PM
She gets a pass because she is a UNC fan. I can understand the hate from our arch rival, it is the rest of the people that hate us for no good reason that perplexes me, or should I say used to perplex me until I accepted the role of bad guy!

Living with it here in the Triangle, I don't think I have embraced it like you have, but rather have become numb to it. It has gone on so long I have pretty much stopped trying to defend against it.

That is one reason I want this title so badly. I want it mainly for the guys on the team because they have endured the hate so long. I want to see our Senior's get redemption in the biggest form.

But I also want all the haters to have to live with it and for all of unc@ch nation to have to live with K immediately answering Roy's latest title in a year where they could not even make the tourney to defend their title. If our guys do this it will far and away be the sweetest of the 4 titles for me due to the hate.

TheRob8801
04-05-2010, 11:06 PM
I hate to throw my fellow Buckeye fans under the bus...

...but just to show you how the hate culminates:

Buckeye Planet: National Title Thread (http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/buckeye-basketball/619631-title-game-butler-7-5-vs-duke-ov-un-128-5-9-15-et-cbs.html)

I've been posting there for a few months now about Ohio State Football (my whole family went there, I'm a Buckeye Football fan first, Duke B-Ball fan second)...and somewhere in a post mentioned that I was a Cameron Crazie when it came to basketball and the last month has been just silly hateful swearing...baseless team accusations...all that kind of stuff.

Now hear me out here.

The moderators on that forum are some of the most intelligent well intentioned folks I've had the privilege of "e-meeting"...they hold accountable posting in high regard and seriously frown upon any type of player bashing in any game threads (except for Duke bashing, apparently that's acceptable).

Just pure, unabashed hate.

I can't for the life of me figure out the reason, either.

Duke doesn't play Ohio State...they didn't have any effect on their season...yet there's so much pure hatred!

Kind of great to be able to just say how proud I am of my guys amidst that nonsense...

moonpie23
04-05-2010, 11:22 PM
Hahahahahahaha.....bring on the hate!!!!!!!

monkey
04-05-2010, 11:26 PM
Suck it haters. Mmmm your hatred tastes so so yummy when we win

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-05-2010, 11:27 PM
Hi Haters, Bye Haters!!!!

sivartrenrag
04-05-2010, 11:29 PM
haters gonna hate

and i'm going to LAUGH IN THEIR FACES.

jdj4duke
04-06-2010, 12:56 AM
And after making what I now swear will be my last ever visit to IC and its (mostly) ignorant, mean spirited, petulant, and delusional population, its time to tell them not only to go stuff their stupid little rants about the refs, the field, and whatever else they can dream up, but also and more importantly

Go to Hell Carolina! Go to Hell!

DevilHorns
04-06-2010, 01:28 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=4858570

Oh Pat Forde. I expect an apology article.

"And the one left out:

Duke. Why the Blue Devils can't win it: We've seen this movie before. Duke blazes impressively out of the gates, is confronted by its limitations (size, depth or athleticism) in the latter third of the regular season, then hits the wall in March. The Devils haven't won more than two games in an NCAA tournament since 2004, despite having No. 1 seeds twice and No. 2 seeds twice as well.

This is yet another good Duke team, with yet another set of apparent flaws. The big men (the young Plumlee brothers, Lance Thomas, Brian Zoubek) are still nothing special. The leading men, Jon Scheyer and Kyle Singler, are still overworked. (Scheyer hasn't played fewer than 36 minutes in a game since December, and Singler has gone the full 40 in each of Duke's last two games.)

The Minutes will believe Duke might have a chance to win it all when it sees the Blue Devils actually advance past the Sweet 16 for the first time since Chris Duhon was in uniform."

soccerstud2210
04-06-2010, 01:33 AM
3 words

2010 NATIONAL CHAMPS

bring on the hate. embrace it. we played with chips on our shoulders. and it worked!

-bdbd
04-06-2010, 01:39 AM
Perfect response to all of that hate. Just leave 'em shuffling their feet towards the door, muttering to themselves all the way.......

Bye-bye trolls!




:D :D :D :D

Dr. Tina
04-06-2010, 03:07 AM
To this FB friend who kept giving out "free tips" all tournament about how Duke is going to lose, this was my reply to yet another status update telling Duke to kiss his [rear]:

"You went 0 for 6 on your PATHETIC DUKE predictions!!! Hahahahahaha!!!! I'M LOVING IT!!!!!!!! Here's my "free tip" for you, Ford...THINK before making a fool of yourself next college basketball season!!! GO DUKE!!!!"

blueprofessor
04-06-2010, 06:55 AM
Hubert Davis, compelled to work UNC into the story: " If UNC had all its players back it should have, remember Wright left after his freshman year, it would have won the title this year!"
Maybe, maybe not, but can you imagine the propriety of a similar statement about Duke in 2005 , 2006, or 2007 by a former Duke player and commentator?

Coach Knight: " Duke is a beacon of integrity...."

Intro to the bonfire at the quad at Duke (in Durham) by Stuart Scott: "There is the Research Triangle, Chapel Hill...."
Yes, but Duke precisely is in Durham, while UNC , NNC (not national champion),is in Chapel Hill. Was there an ESPN cam on Huck Hamlet heading from Chapel Hill to the celebration (or something to get a little attention), Stu?

K:" I told them they were a great team."

No reference to the Dukies in the postgame; it was Duke ,as far as I can recall.

Someone:"Singler's defense on Hayward (2 of 11) was the key to the game."
But,wait a minute, Goug Gottdweeb had assured us 9 days ago that Kyle was the weak link in Duke's defense, hadn't he?

No problem with the constant references to Butler (a magnificent team), even a discussion very late of how Butler could have won. Difficult for some commentators to let go of their fond wishes for a Butler victory and a Duke defeat.

Only one reference in 2 hours postgame analysis to the crackback block on Singler by Howard, even though that action is clearly visible in the constant replays of the last second shot from 45 feet.

Congrats to Duke and its loyal fans ,as well as to Butler!

Best regards. Blueprofessor :)

diveonthefloor
04-06-2010, 07:03 AM
SCOREBOARD!


GTHC GTC!

Love listening to Vitale rant against the haters. He did it again last night.

DukeDiva
04-06-2010, 07:19 AM
This was a message I got on my facebook. It was the first thing I seen when I woke up.

I wouldn"t be proud of a team that got handed a easy road to the final four because they are from the east coast even though they were the worse number 1 seed! Be proud of your team why I throw up and hate the east coast love the committe and media gives them!

My reply was simply 2010 Champions!

jwillrockyou
04-06-2010, 08:03 AM
i love people who keeping saying that duke is the worst #1 seed. if duke was the worst, then why are they the only ones who survived?
oh, right, i forgot. because they had to play a 2,3,4, and 5 seed unlike anybody else in the tournament. wow, really easy.

also, my friend last night on facebook had up, "wow, duke. way to only beat a 5 seed by two points. why dont you try winning the championship game by 20 like carolina?"
i responded: "or try losing by three in the nit final like carolina"

Matches
04-06-2010, 08:10 AM
Carolina lost by 11 in the NIT final. They tried to lose by 3 but weren't quite up to the task. :)

jwillrockyou
04-06-2010, 08:46 AM
haha. whoops. that must have been what i put. it was very late, and i was on a duke high, so i looked up the score. the nit final wasn't exactly important enough for me to remember what happened, other than that unc lost. ;)

Danke Shane
04-06-2010, 09:28 AM
Wow... this is one of the most hate-filled pieces of "journalism" I have ever read...

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/36188776/ns/sports-college_basketball/

I don't know what makes me angrier: "Duke robbed America of ending we deserved" or "Duke is one of the most flawed national champions in the past 25 years".

gumbomoop
04-06-2010, 09:28 AM
Two points re The Haters, one "global," one UNC-CH.

1. Global - You realize, do you not, that not only did the NCAA/CBS/International Global Conspiracy give Duke this year's title - easiest seed, bracketed with multiple teams with injuries, Duke Alumni Association-paid refs - but..... BUT...... said Conspiracy also gave Duke an advance leg up on 2011 title by placing them in the very 2010 regional venue that will be...... TA DA...... the site of the 2011 Finals: Houston's Reliant Stadium. Duke World sucks.

2. UNC - Consider pathetic I[diotic]C Hater Heeldom's mental health today: Roy himself, in full meltdown mode mid-season, muttered that he hated this season more than he enjoyed his title team. He shouldn't-a said that, but it does seem to indicate how Idiots live and die more with Duke's season than with their own. This year was so unexpectedly awful not merely because of the incomprehensible meltdown, but - unexpectedly awful quadrupled - a Duke team with no PG [fortunately UNC had Drew II chomping at the bit], underachieving bigs [fortunately UNC had the best front line in NCAA history], no senior leadership [fortunately UNC had Deon and Marcus], no depth [fortunately UNC had the best frosh class in the last 20 years], and a phony coach [fortunately UNC had Roy] - that Duke team was handed the title. Un-flippin-believable. Duke World sucks.

Have pity on The Haters and The Stoopids. They are collectively and individually on the precipice.

GoingFor#5
04-06-2010, 09:34 AM
Let's ask ESPN if they will have a 1 hour show in primetime with Coach K, JJ Redick, Chris Duhon, Christian Laettner, Chris Collins, and Wojo talking about the championship....just for the haters!!

Elev8ion
04-06-2010, 09:44 AM
Wow... this is one of the most hate-filled pieces of "journalism" I have ever read...

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/36188776/ns/sports-college_basketball/

I don't know what makes me angrier: "Duke robbed America of ending we deserved" or "Duke is one of the most flawed national champions in the past 25 years".

Look where the guy is based out of. Also, look at his comment about the '99 championship game.

Those things tell me all I need to know.

_Gary
04-06-2010, 09:44 AM
Wow... this is one of the most hate-filled pieces of "journalism" I have ever read...

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/36188776/ns/sports-college_basketball/

I don't know what makes me angrier: "Duke robbed America of ending we deserved" or "Duke is one of the most flawed national champions in the past 25 years".


Good Lord that's horrible. You are correct. It is the worst, most truly hate-filled piece of sports "journalism" (and I use that word loosely) I have ever read in my life. How pathetic.

blue post
04-06-2010, 10:06 AM
Wow... this is one of the most hate-filled pieces of "journalism" I have ever read...

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/36188776/ns/sports-college_basketball/

I don't know what makes me angrier: "Duke robbed America of ending we deserved" or "Duke is one of the most flawed national champions in the past 25 years".

This is an amateur blogger that somehow got his diary onto nbcsports.com, right?
This guy can't possibly be a professional journalist...right?

diesel
04-06-2010, 10:12 AM
I hate to say I have this emotion, but schadenfreude is the feeling I often have when I listen to the haters.

This emotion is unworthy of me and the rest of us. Why? Because we attended a school where undergraduate education costs around $50,000 a year and one also has to be intelligent to get in. And the grad schools are also famous. That anecdote from SF Dukie is telling. When he/she cheered for Duke in a sports bar, “One of the viewers turned around, and addressed me saying: ‘you must be a doctor or a lawyer.’ "

This background leads us to use and appreciate terms such as schadenfreude. Some haters may think this could be Arabic!

Let’s face it: we’re just from a different universe and the haters resent the fact. Their grubby noses are pressed against the window pane looking at something they can never be a part of. We should be mindful of our advantages and not rub their noses into the glass.

Starter
04-06-2010, 11:04 AM
This is an amateur blogger that somehow got his diary onto nbcsports.com, right?
This guy can't possibly be a professional journalist...right?

I looked him up -- Davis covered UConn basketball for 12 years for the Hartford Courant, which explains his ridiculous statement that the 1999 title game (which he covered for the paper) was better than this one. Even if I hadn't been a Duke sophomore at the time, I would in no way consider that a better game than this year's, what with a halfcourt heave that almost went in for the country's beloved underdog. Davis has no credibility or objectivity, and he most likely simply hates Duke. Moving on...

dukepsy1963
04-06-2010, 11:58 AM
A man may make mistakes, but he isn't a failure until he starts blaming someone else.
John Wooden

The search for a scapegoat is the easiest of all hunting expeditions.
Dwight Eisenhower

A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.
John Burroughs

"The search for someone to blame is always successful."
-- Robert Half

"To find a fault is easy; to do better may be difficult."
-- Plutarch

"Blame is a lazy man's wages." - Danish Proverb

moonpie23
04-06-2010, 01:43 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/13162720/butler-loses-b

Cockabeau
04-06-2010, 01:47 PM
Please don't link that DB....

GoingFor#5
04-06-2010, 01:51 PM
Do you know what state is home to Wright State? I do, but only because I live in Ohio. Until I moved there, I had no clue -- and when I moved to Ohio, I was writing about college basketball for a living.

He reveals himself....we don't even have to do any work

Exiled_Devil
04-06-2010, 02:19 PM
We could probably post a new thread today called "Bad sportswriting because the 'journalists' wanted Butler to win and still trying to paint Duke as the villain"

Besides Doyell, there was Forde at ESPN, and another random newspaper writer.

NashvilleDevil
04-06-2010, 02:46 PM
We could probably post a new thread today called "Bad sportswriting because the 'journalists' wanted Butler to win and still trying to paint Duke as the villain"

Besides Doyell, there was Forde at ESPN, and another random newspaper writer.

I thought Forde's article on the game was pretty good for a Forde article.

gcashwell
04-06-2010, 02:50 PM
I actually didn't think he was hating on Duke at all. I completely undderstand what he was saying.

MarkD83
04-06-2010, 02:57 PM
If so I need to freelance because I can wirte better than this and I'm an engineer.

Now that I think about it writing like this is why newspapers are in decline and the number of blogs on the internet are increasing.

ncexnyc
04-06-2010, 03:03 PM
What a jerk. His baseball reference to Yaz winning the batting title in the AL (1968) shows how little he knows. That's the year that is refered to as the "Year of the Pitcher." Yaz hit for the elusive Triple Crown of baseball in 1967, and his .301 average in 1968, was the only .300+ average in the AL that year. Yaz is a HOF'er and this is just another hack writer trying his best to belittle Duke and it's accomplishments.

killerleft
04-06-2010, 03:18 PM
I actually didn't think he was hating on Duke at all. I completely undderstand what he was saying.

I understand what he was saying, too! It was kinda like, "Let's spin this so that Butler looks good and Duke looks bad. Because Coach K wouldn't help me with my book about him."

He's hoping somebody will forget that the Duke defense was 2 points better than Butler's, and defense wins championships!

Ooh, I'll bet those Sour Grapes taste bitter to Mr. Doyel.

oldnavy
04-06-2010, 03:24 PM
What else is a hater going to do? Does anyone expect these bitter, frustrated, hacks to suddenly change their ways? This is the beauty of it all, they show themselves to be the sour souls they are. Anyone who has not drank the cool-aid yet saw what Duke is about last night. Anyone who isn't already sold out had to come out of that experience completely impressed by both Duke and Butler. Doyles' attempt to cast Duke as something it is not is a lie, and in the end all lies will have to be accounted for.

Another point if I may. The major difference is between Duke fans and the haters I believe is this. As a fan of the game, had that last shot by Hayward gone in and won the game, I would be very happy and proud of Butler for winning the game. I would have been tremendously disappointed for our guys but I would not have been angry or bitter. I think most Duke fans would feel the same way. The haters will use this game to fuel their irrational hate. I was told by a Marine Colonel once to "Do the right thing, and fear no man". That is great advice for anyone, but especially Duke fans. Continue to do the right thing (support our team, and be good sports about it) and not "fear" or even give folks like Doyle a second thought.

moonpie23
04-06-2010, 03:34 PM
here's something for doyel

Zeb
04-06-2010, 03:46 PM
I actually didn't think he was hating on Duke at all. I completely undderstand what he was saying.

I concur. He's pointing out some facts and making an interesting point: the way Duke won this game will affect the way it is remembered. A dominating win by Duke would have changed the perception of both teams.

Doyel prides himself on being a real prick, but I don't see him playing that role here. I'd love for all the people saying he's out of line to actually quote a passage where he showed an unfair prejudice against Duke.

gumbomoop
04-06-2010, 04:24 PM
I concur. He's pointing out some facts and making an interesting point: the way Duke won this game will affect the way it is remembered. A dominating win by Duke would have changed the perception of both teams.

Doyel prides himself on being a real prick, but I don't see him playing that role here. I'd love for all the people saying he's out of line to actually quote a passage where he showed an unfair prejudice against Duke.

I wouldn't say Doyel was a Hater here, but even what might be sincere praise - "Duke was the toughest, the sturdiest, most resilient, most opportunistic team of all" - in the overall context of the article, definitely comes across as damning with faint praise. That's quite a trick, given that this praise isn't faint. Doyel can't see the very trees he's identified [Duke's several admirable qualities] for the forest [Butler's wonderful story].

Lennies
04-06-2010, 04:43 PM
One of the talking heads on ESPN this morning referred to the new champion as "the Bluke Due Devils".

theAlaskanBear
04-06-2010, 04:44 PM
What a jerk. His baseball reference to Yaz winning the batting title in the AL (1968) shows how little he knows. That's the year that is refered to as the "Year of the Pitcher." Yaz hit for the elusive Triple Crown of baseball in 1967, and his .301 average in 1968, was the only .300+ average in the AL that year. Yaz is a HOF'er and this is just another hack writer trying his best to belittle Duke and it's accomplishments.

This is what bothers me the most. He is revealing his ignorance about baseball, and then misappropriating a situation and applying to basketball, in a way that is demeaning both to Yaz the the Duke team.

Consider this, 1968, the year of the pitcher:

Bob Gibson throws his record 1.12 ERA, completing 28 games, 13 of which are shutouts. There were 9 pitchers that year with over 100 innings are a sub 2.00 ERA. Ther are 52 pitchers with 100 innings and a sub 3.00 ERA.

The next season, they lowered the pitching mounds by 10 inches (nearly a foot). Imagine Johann Santana, Nolan Ryan, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson etc, pitching off of mounds 10 inches higher. So what Yaz did was infinitely harder than many other batting champs with better AVGs.

bdeviled11
04-06-2010, 05:58 PM
Obama to call Butler's Stevens

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/ncaa/mens-tournament/04/06/butler.loss.ap/index.html

I'm not trying to start a political thing, but this just doesn't feel right to me.

DevilHorns
04-06-2010, 06:02 PM
Obama to call Butler's Stevens

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/ncaa/mens-tournament/04/06/butler.loss.ap/index.html

I'm not trying to start a political thing, but this just doesn't feel right to me.

This is straight from his political advisors. He looks good since 95% of the country was going for Butler. So sad.

GoingFor#5
04-06-2010, 06:28 PM
Obama to call Butler's Stevens

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/ncaa/mens-tournament/04/06/butler.loss.ap/index.html

I'm not trying to start a political thing, but this just doesn't feel right to me.

Yeah but Obama loves hoops. He will probably talk Xs and Os with Stevens. Somehow I doubt Obama's congratulatory calls are the standard presidential fare when it comes to basketball.

blueprofessor
04-06-2010, 06:46 PM
Yeah but Obama loves hoops. He will probably talk Xs and Os with Stevens. Somehow I doubt Obama's congratulatory calls are the standard presidential fare when it comes to basketball.

Hope he knows more about basketball than he does about his beloved (after all, he is a self-described "Southside guy"whose favorite team is the ChiSox) White Sox and can sometime answer the posed question of who is his favorite player. Even Dan Patrick today thought it was rather suspect.
But he certainly has been well-coached by a great one---Huck Hamlet.

Best regards. Blueprofessor:)

diveonthefloor
04-06-2010, 06:58 PM
Obama to call Butler's Stevens

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/ncaa/mens-tournament/04/06/butler.loss.ap/index.html

I'm not trying to start a political thing, but this just doesn't feel right to me.

Somehow I'm thinking the Reggie Love connection has worn thin with the WH political advisors.
Duke is hated as a hoops program by the majority of the country, and prob many Duke grads aren't as inclined to vote for Potus as those from its rival schools.

Oh well.

Duke's obligatory WH visit will be interesting. Wonder if cameras will be banned so Potus advisors don't have to worry about him looking bad politically.

Vincetaylor
04-06-2010, 07:05 PM
Obama to call Butler's Stevens

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/ncaa/mens-tournament/04/06/butler.loss.ap/index.html

I'm not trying to start a political thing, but this just doesn't feel right to me.

He called K too, so who really cares. I could really care less about anything besides the fact that we are the National Champs at this point. Nothing more needs to be said than that.

moonpie23
04-06-2010, 07:22 PM
i don't WANT him to call, come see us play, talk to the players, skype, twitter or chatroulette anyone CONNECTED with the program......cause we all know how that last visit worked out..


oh, and i am a huge obama fan......just stay away from the team....:p

Susan
04-06-2010, 10:15 PM
Tonight's edition of The Daily Show just led off with a GREAT critique of the Duke haters and the sportswriters casting Butler as David and Duke as Goliath. Among other things, he showed a photo of the Duke team and said they look more like the cast of Glee. I've been a fan of Jon Stewart for a long time, but now he has risen to new heights ... The video will be up online tomorrow a.m. here: http://www.thedailyshow.com/
or you can catch a rerun on Comedy Central sometime over the next 24 hrs...

weezie
04-06-2010, 10:28 PM
He called K too, so who really cares. I could really care less about anything besides the fact that we are the National Champs at this point. Nothing more needs to be said than that.

Yeah, gotta agree with Vincet here.

I'm guessing that Brad Stevens wasn't the least bit interested in discussing post game analysis with the prez, after all, Stevens had a group of young men to console and encourage after the loss.
Likely the WH gang will be scheduling a visit to Butler's campus on an upcoming campaign trail ride in order to make everybody look good all around.
Whatevs.

weezie
04-06-2010, 10:33 PM
Wow... this is one of the most hate-filled pieces of "journalism" I have ever read...

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/36188776/ns/sports-college_basketball/

I don't know what makes me angrier: "Duke robbed America of ending we deserved" or "Duke is one of the most flawed national champions in the past 25 years".

Yeah, but Ken Davis is a big fat load, so again, OUR TEAM won the national championship and Ken Davis looks like a walrus. And, why do sports hacks like to point out that a player "hates" losing (a la, young Hayward)?
Who actually likes losing?

diveonthefloor
04-06-2010, 11:06 PM
OK, so David Letterman called Duke a "bunch of goons."

Moron.

moonpie23
04-06-2010, 11:35 PM
Yeah, but Ken Davis is a big fat load, so again, OUR TEAM won the national championship and Ken Davis looks like a walrus. And, why do sports hacks like to point out that a player "hates" losing (a la, young Hayward)?
Who actually likes losing?

man.....him and doyel...full of it...

ironman
04-06-2010, 11:51 PM
OK, so David Letterman called Duke a "bunch of goons."

Moron.

My definition of a goon is a guy who cheats on his wife

BattierD12
04-07-2010, 12:19 AM
One thing's for sure. If I ever live in Indiana, I am not reelecting this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0Zz_mZxAC4

Hope he understands that elections are also determined by the final "score".

hc5duke
04-07-2010, 01:08 AM
Tonight's edition of The Daily Show just led off with a GREAT critique of the Duke haters and the sportswriters casting Butler as David and Duke as Goliath. Among other things, he showed a photo of the Duke team and said they look more like the cast of Glee. I've been a fan of Jon Stewart for a long time, but now he has risen to new heights ... The video will be up online tomorrow a.m. here: http://www.thedailyshow.com/
or you can catch a rerun on Comedy Central sometime over the next 24 hrs...

awesome. i almost wished this was the chronicle headline instead of un-four-gettable

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=19&pictureid=457

devildownunder
04-07-2010, 01:15 AM
I wouldn't say Doyel was a Hater here, but even what might be sincere praise - "Duke was the toughest, the sturdiest, most resilient, most opportunistic team of all" - in the overall context of the article, definitely comes across as damning with faint praise. That's quite a trick, given that this praise isn't faint. Doyel can't see the very trees he's identified [Duke's several admirable qualities] for the forest [Butler's wonderful story].

Doyel wrote a column the other day in which he actually admitted that he takes potshots at Duke because it's easy and safe. Now, why anyone would take him even remotely seriously after he basically just comes out and says that he writes only for the reaction, rather than from any sense of intellectual honesty is beyond me.

In a startling development, the column in which he made the admission actually raised an interesting question: When did Duke become the bad guy?

hc5duke
04-07-2010, 02:39 AM
http://deadspin.com/5510932/welcome-back-duke-persecution-complex

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2010/04/500x_charlotteobserver.jpg

charlotte observer 2009 vs 2010. hmm......

davekay1971
04-07-2010, 06:58 AM
http://deadspin.com/5510932/welcome-back-duke-persecution-complex

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2010/04/500x_charlotteobserver.jpg

charlotte observer 2009 vs 2010. hmm......

One of several reasons I don't subscribe to that rag.

jdj4duke
04-07-2010, 08:02 AM
In the same vein, I don't anticipate that the NC State Legislature will pass a resolution honoring Duke and slamming UNC. It was so cute of them last year to praise UNC and bring up margin of loss in the 1990 Duke-UNLV game.

Well, we are not a state school, and as K says, we don't expect the same treatment by the local press. Those of you who live in NC though might suggest that your state representative introduce something to recognize UNC's 20 win season or at least their overall winning record or their visit to the ACC tournament or a bill to honor Duke's NIT title and UNC's NIT second place finish. Surely there was something of note.

And while the current antipathy towards Duke seems inescapable and outlandish, in retrospect, it began a long time ago on a state level. I grew up in NC, and recall the outrage towards Duke beginning in the spring of 1968 with the MLK sit-in on the quad, and followed up with the Allen Building take-over that fall. When heading off to Durham for freshman year at the same time, I was told by two high school buddies (not coincidentally heading off to UNC) "Don't let them get to you over there".

Basketball may be the focus for the apparent phenomenon of national "hate" lately, but on a state level, it goes way back before K and has some decidedly different roots. It is clearly intriguing to me that so many negative comments go after the "whiteness" of the team or the University, when back in the 60's and 70's there was so much unpleasantness from NC and regional folks about Duke being "too liberal", ie embracing integration, equal opportunity, etc and etc and blah blah.

Yeah it's over 40 years, but I remain convinced that some of the ill-feeling in NC has built upon those foggy but persistent recollections about the University, like an unidentifiable but institutionalized memory.

As a poster somewhere in this thread said last week, it's time to give up trying to understand or argue away the hate. Don't like us? I don't care, and go shove your idiocy. We have nothing to explain or for which to apologize. Got my Duke shirt on right now-

Matches
04-07-2010, 08:10 AM
charlotte observer 2009 vs 2010. hmm......

Ha! Well to be fair to the Observer, who could've predicted that there would be such a shocking news story - the arrival of pollen! - on the same day we won the title? What momentous event could possibly crowd a story like that off the front page? :eek:

At least we made the front page. On Sunday the front page noted that Butler had made the finals but omitted us entirely.

cruxer
04-07-2010, 08:46 AM
This seems like the appropriate thread to introduce my way of dealing with the haters. Just like Maino does. By saying Hi!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxra2Nn7K9Y

Hook:
Hustle hard, Stack paper,
It's alright, Ya'll haters,
It's nothing, We major,
You see me, Hi Hater... Hi Hater... Hi Hater,
You see me, Hi Hater... Hi Hater... Hi Hater,
You see me, Hi hater.

cruxer
04-07-2010, 08:51 AM
One thing's for sure. If I ever live in Indiana, I am not reelecting this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0Zz_mZxAC4

Hope he understands that elections are also determined by the final "score".

You wait until IU or Purdue starts regularly scheduling Butler and losing to them. Then we'll see how much love Indianans have for their "Davids". After all Duke and Butler aren't dissimilar, Duke just plays in the same conference as the state unis and is (at the VERY least) competitive with them. That makes it hard for the large alumni bases of those schools to really like Duke.

BD80
04-07-2010, 09:11 AM
http://deadspin.com/5510932/welcome-back-duke-persecution-complex

charlotte observer 2009 vs 2010. hmm......

Who was it that said: "Act like you've been there before?"

I get a disturbing sense that many Duke fans are living down to the Haters expectations:


Duke students and alums ... are terribly busy at the moment living up to everyone's expectations. Our old friends at Seth Curry Saves Duke!, for example, are celebrating their national championship with maybe the D**kiest expression of joy imaginable, a great big popped collar of a phrase: "We're national champions. Go f*ck yourself." Someone put that on a commemorative t-shirt.

Let's stay classy, even if we are not from San Diego (nod to Ron Burgundy).

jdj4duke
04-07-2010, 10:16 AM
I get a disturbing sense that many Duke fans are living down to the Haters expectations:


It matters not in the least how we behave. The haters will tailor their responses to their predispositions regardless. I don't endorse acting like jackasses, and would always prefer a bit of graciousness and civility, but putting a Duke National Champs tee shirt on Miss Manners would result in her being the target of virulent invective. And as I said above, the haters can now go shove it. But in a nice way.

DevilHorns
04-07-2010, 10:25 AM
It matters not in the least how we behave. The haters will tailor their responses to their predispositions regardless. I don't endorse acting like jackasses, and would always prefer a bit of graciousness and civility, but putting a Duke National Champs tee shirt on Miss Manners would result in her being the target of virulent invective. And as I said above, the haters can now go shove it. But in a nice way.

Agreed. I think we should embrace the hatred, akin to yankees fans or patriots fans, rather than redirect the hatred and simply shake our heads.

I call for a new world order in Duke fandom. No more letting the passing sting from a co-worker stink up your day ("You guys were handed the championship again" "8 on 5 again last night"), no more feeling like you will have to defend yourself in public for simply being a Duke fan. Take it and grab it! If someone takes a stab at my team, I will defend them more vocally than I have in the past (In the past I would take the rational mature route, maybe shake my head and try to redirect conversation). Times have changed. Duke hatred is at a new high. Time to spew it back (respectfully of course).

DevilDawg
04-07-2010, 10:27 AM
Who was it that said: "Act like you've been there before?"

I get a disturbing sense that many Duke fans are living down to the Haters expectations:



Let's stay classy, even if we are not from San Diego (nod to Ron Burgundy).

Agreed, but I find it funny that after a week of hearing, I hope Butler wins, f**k Duke!, reveling in that win is now a perfect example the obnoxious behavior Duke fans. "Oh if only Duke fans could be a little more humble and gracious. F**k those guys! Their team sucks." It's somewhat amusing.

alteran
04-07-2010, 11:15 AM
It matters not in the least how we behave.

Bingo.

Look at the Deadspin piece linked above. It shows the Observer clearly giving us the shaft, and the takeaway is that we've got issues. It links to some random Duke blog that I've never heard of, and makes that some representative example of Duke Nation, after distorting the point of the blog post it refers to..

You can't win. The hate keeps coming at you no matter what you do.

Me, I've decided to embrace the hate. This Halloween I'm going to airbrush a Darth Vader mask Duke Blue, wear a Duke Blue cape, and arm myself with a Light Pitchfork.

TheRob8801
04-07-2010, 02:12 PM
Who was it that said: "Act like you've been there before?"


I get a disturbing sense that many Duke fans are living down to the Haters expectations

I think that for the most part, us Duke fans HAVE been here before. Watching the unwashed masses piss all over us and having to sit quietly aside and grin with the knowledge that all we have to do is say "Scoreboard" and it's done.

The guy who wrote that page at Seth Curry Saves Duke has it exactly right. (though I wouldn't have used the same language).

We simply CANNOT win, one way or another. There's just something about Duke that turns normally rational people in to raving lunatics and that's not gonna change. We've dealt with those people by going the higher road and suddenly we're the snotty elitists. We've dealt with those people by offering similarly inane retorts and then we're conceited douchebags.

Best thing I can think of right now is to simply take the hit, throw 'em the proverbial finger and then promptly turn the other cheek. Best of both worlds.

_Gary
04-07-2010, 02:33 PM
We simply CANNOT win, one way or another. There's just something about Duke that turns normally rational people in to raving lunatics and that's not gonna change.

That "something" that turns normally rational people into raving lunatics has a name - MEDIA BIAS. No one will ever convince me the "hate" we see from regular, everyday people (other than UNC and, to a lesser degree, UK fans) is completely organic. We were media darlings after winning those first two titles (again, UK fans notwithstanding). It all changed when Billy Packer gave a public platform to Gary Williams and Maryland fans in the 2001 Title Game. Once that happened everything changed and the media has driven the hate ever since. I'm firmly convinced we wouldn't be seeing this crap this year if it were not for the ESPN talking heads like Lavin and Gottlieb. It's all about the age old principle of telling a lie long enough and... These guys kept pushing the "Duke gets all the calls" and "Duke has an easy bracket" over and over and over and that's what the general public hears 24/7 so it sticks.

Bottom line: The public hate is not organic. It's media driven. That why I'm still a bit disappointed that guys like Bilas have made what seems to me to be a very clear choice to not confront the bias and just hope it goes away. It's clear that tact will not work. It's just too bad Dickie V and Bob Knight don't have more face time because I believe they'd call the bias out (in fact Dick Vitale did just that after the Baylor win).

Gary

nyesq83
04-07-2010, 02:52 PM
Bingo.

Look at the Deadspin piece linked above. It shows the Observer clearly giving us the shaft, and the takeaway is that we've got issues. It links to some random Duke blog that I've never heard of, and makes that some representative example of Duke Nation, after distorting the point of the blog post it refers to..

You can't win. The hate keeps coming at you no matter what you do.

Me, I've decided to embrace the hate. This Halloween I'm going to airbrush a Darth Vader mask Duke Blue, wear a Duke Blue cape, and arm myself with a Light Pitchfork.

Funny you should say that. I was going to cover myself in a Duke blanket as if it were a cape and use my nephew's device that plays the Imperial March (Darth Vader's theme) to egg on my coworkers who had inked "Greater Richmond Duke Haters Club" on a white screen in their office.

Instead I just threw the blanket over the top, covering it for a minute or two. Then, later in the day, I stopped by with my arms stretched, thumbs tucked in, and with my fingers splayed on each hand (four fingers = 4 NC's) waving at them, and asking "So how are you guys doing in here?"

Since their backs were to me, they all had to turn around to see me giving them not one or two fingers, but 8! Ha!

Tournaments may come and go, but National Championships last forever!

billy
04-07-2010, 06:23 PM
Haven't seen this elsewhere, too many posts and links to follow. Sorry if duplicative:

http://www.dailytarheel.com/content/duke-kills-tar-heel-hopes

hc5duke
04-07-2010, 06:30 PM
Haven't seen this elsewhere, too many posts and links to follow. Sorry if duplicative:

http://www.dailytarheel.com/content/duke-kills-tar-heel-hopes


If that last shot went it, Gordon Heyward's jersey would probably be hanging in the Smith Center.

- Bobby Frasor (http://twitter.com/BFrasor/status/11680093800)

Probably next to the NIT runner-up banner

fgb
04-07-2010, 07:18 PM
i'm amazed, speaking of the media, at the number of writers/"experts" who keep going on and on, over and over about how duke wasn't really the best team in the tournament; how that shot almost went in; how k's decision for z to miss that last ft was a poor one; etc. almost like they can talk our win out of having happened. there is really some serious denial out there right now, and i'm sort of enjoying watching these blowhards squirm a little after spending the entire season spouting off about how we weren't really that good. (remember when we were supposedly going to "back into a number one seed"?)

my favorite was when gottlieb was pushed as to whether or not this moved k to a new level in the "pantheon of coaching" (whatever that means), and he admitted that, of course, now k should be mentioned in the same breath as adolph rupp and roy williams.

he really said that; he really put williams in there.

gumbomoop
04-07-2010, 08:19 PM
Little did they know......

If it's true that this DBR board is way superior to pretty much all others , why is that? Well, the mods do a good job. There's generally a culture of civility, broken a bit too frequently by friendly fire, but nothing like the amazing crassness, ignorance, and stupidity one finds on the few other boards I've visited.

Given the ubiquity of Hate Duke World, and the laziness of the Sports Chattering Class, it seems to be literally true that the vast majority of passionate fans were utterly clueless about Duke's team and season.

So, having seen Duke blasted by Georgetown, all the Hater assumptions were confirmed. Z's starting? Ha, K's really desperate. Duke's atop the ACC standings? Ha, a joke league this year. Duke loses to Md? Ha, can't even beat a mediocre team away. Duke crushes Carolina? Doesn't count, UNC has imploded. Duke wins ACCT? Ha, did you see how they had to grind it out in each game?

Now, what did it mean, all that teeth-gnashing when Duke got #1 seed, and an "easy" bracket? It didn't mean Duke was any good, just that they'd get all the calls and might somehow get a deep run, a total joke.

How many fanatics ever heard of KenPom? Well, I had, vaguely, but only when posters more informed than I started the "dork polls" thread did I become obsessed, having discovered that KenPom actually seemed to [I]know something, and to have a plausible explanation for why the team I was watching did seem to be getting better, in "weird" ways. But the average fan, for all the fascination and Hate, didn't know crap about Duke.

They still don't, and never will. They're incapable, generally, of serious analysis [check those boards], and where Duke is concerned, Hate is sufficient for the day. Little did they know? Little did they want to know, for they knew enough: Duke's got no real players, and they always choke anyway.

Willful ignorance is dangerously stoopid.

jdj4duke
04-08-2010, 06:53 AM
Haven't seen this elsewhere, too many posts and links to follow. Sorry if duplicative:

http://www.dailytarheel.com/content/duke-kills-tar-heel-hopes

I especially enjoyed Lawson's cute little comments about the refs. One would hope that the former players, ie Lawson, would, with the perspective of even a little time and NBA experience, not be quite so jackassy. I would also hope to be 6'4" with a 40" vertical.

Channing
04-08-2010, 07:56 AM
my favorite was when gottlieb was pushed as to whether or not this moved k to a new level in the "pantheon of coaching" (whatever that means), and he admitted that, of course, now k should be mentioned in the same breath as adolph rupp and roy williams.

he really said that; he really put williams in there.

This has to be a joke - it can't be serious. It must've been a slip of the tongue, and he meant to say Wooden ... right?

killerleft
04-08-2010, 08:36 AM
This has to be a joke - it can't be serious. It must've been a slip of the tongue, and he meant to say Wooden ... right?

It was both a joke and a needling directed toward Duke fans. I guess he assumed that at least one Duke fan would be dumb enough not to notice a set-up (ba-da-boom) line. And I guess he was even dumber to think such an ignorant statement would be taken seriously by anybody over the age of 12 and wearing a Tar Heel NIT Runner-up t-shirt!

weezie
04-08-2010, 08:45 AM
Haven't seen this elsewhere, too many posts and links to follow. Sorry if duplicative:

http://www.dailytarheel.com/content/duke-kills-tar-heel-hopes

Ty Lawson is a pig.
But look at Henson's comment! I'll bet his little sister is pleased!
Geez, I hope this doesn't make me like the kid.........;)

DevilHorns
04-08-2010, 09:44 AM
I especially enjoyed Lawson's cute little comments about the refs. One would hope that the former players, ie Lawson, would, with the perspective of even a little time and NBA experience, not be quite so jackassy. I would also hope to be 6'4" with a 40" vertical.

He tweeted "Congrats" to Nolan later that night.

jdj4duke
04-08-2010, 10:03 AM
He tweeted "Congrats" to Nolan later that night.
Partial redemption for Ty then. It would be nice if things like that were public as well. You know, just a little ACC love and all that. C'est la guerre.
Thanks for the update.

Danke Shane
04-08-2010, 05:59 PM
One more for good measure (I think it's a pro-Butler source, so not unexpected)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/375352-butlers-victory-the-tectonic-plates-have-shifted-in-college-basketball

Some of the gems:


Their play was erratic, their decision-making suspect, their performance in this championship game unimpressive on the smaller and the larger scale.


The team that put on Duke's uniforms Monday night was a completely different animal. Guys were falling all over the floor. Three players went up for the same rebound and collided. On offense, they sometimes didn't know what to do with the ball when they caught it, looking around for help; when a set play broke down, they became frantic.

The hallmark of Coach K's offense, that perfect spacing on the floor, was nonexistent—and their defense was like bumblebee soccer, running around after the guy with the ball and getting in each other's way. Nobody was poised. Nobody was patient. That just wasn't the Duke team we had all learned to regard with terror.


As it was, they beat a mid-major No. 5 seed in a one-possession game. The only claim Duke can really make this year is that the top has come down so much in college basketball that there was no one left to play at the end of the tournament.


I don't feel happy for Duke that they won. For a Duke player, winning just makes the caviar taste better. Duke winning a championship is like a 16-year-old buddy telling you his dad bought him a Corvette for his birthday. You want him to feel good, but...did he really do anything?

Butler has accomplished something more profound. They didn't just "win one for the little guys." They gave a warning, and with that came a guarantee. This wasn't a fluke; this is the way the game is going to be now—and the big programs had better get used to it.

fgb
04-08-2010, 07:12 PM
somebody call this guy and congratulate him on butler's national championship.

TheRob8801
04-08-2010, 08:36 PM
One more for good measure (I think it's a pro-Butler source, so not unexpected)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/375352-butlers-victory-the-tectonic-plates-have-shifted-in-college-basketball

I have a hard time believe that if that is a pro-Butler source, Butler faithful are that stupid.

If those things represent how we played that game, then what they did and who they are is absolutely unremarkable...seeing as they lost that game. Unbelievable.

hc5duke
04-08-2010, 08:51 PM
I'm not sure if this counts as "Duke Hate" (http://garygaddy.tripod.com/blog/index.blog?from=20100409) but I thought it was pretty funny.


According to Krzyzewski, "A lot of the tears after the championship game were not for joy, they were out of sadness that the Heels couldn't celebrate with us."

"The first thing I did after I got off the court," said Krzyzewski, "was call Roy (Williams) to make sure he was doing OK. It's hard to put your heart into a celebration when you know your friend is in pain."

...

Duke senior psychology major Lawrence Runkin from Brooklyn said he had been acting as a volunteer bereavement counselor at UNC's Campus Health Services on all day on Friday and Saturday and had not much time to even think about the Duke and Butler contest until he saw some guys in the dorm lounge watching the game when got home late Saturday. "I guess I am glad we won but the looking at the impact of the Tar Heel loss had on students there had already put sports into some larger perspective for me," Runkin said.

jdj4duke
04-09-2010, 07:35 AM
I'm not sure if this counts as "Duke Hate" (http://garygaddy.tripod.com/blog/index.blog?from=20100409) but I thought it was pretty funny.

From the article: "Said Duke sophomore Jan Goldstein of Paramus-------"

Perfect. Absolutely perfect.

RelativeWays
04-09-2010, 08:03 AM
I don't think the guy who authors the Seth Curry Saves Duke blog is really a Duke fan, at least going by what I've read. He wrote some things that not even the most cynical Duke fan would write.

CrazieDUMB
04-09-2010, 08:14 AM
I don't think the guy who authors the Seth Curry Saves Duke blog is really a Duke fan, at least going by what I've read. He wrote some things that not even the most cynical Duke fan would write.

He is exactly that, a cynical Duke fan. One of the things I like about his blog is that he doesn't have the same love-goggles many people on this forum have. Remember, it's ok to disparage your own team in the name of accurate writing. I don't doubt that he still wants us to win.

roywhite
04-09-2010, 08:27 AM
He is exactly that, a cynical Duke fan. One of the things I like about his blog is that he doesn't have the same love-goggles many people on this forum have. Remember, it's ok to disparage your own team in the name of accurate writing. I don't doubt that he still wants us to win.

Yeah, shame on us, CrazieDUMB; what do we know?

You can go on to write "accurately" like Gregg Doyel, Gary Parrish, Doug Gottleib, etc. I think I prefer the commentary of many on this board who apparently have love-goggles on.

In the year of a national championship, how much is there "to disparage your own team?".

It's also okay to celebrate your own team.

jdj4duke
04-09-2010, 10:06 AM
If those things represent how we played that game, then what they did and who they are is absolutely unremarkable...seeing as they lost that game. Unbelievable.

And that is the all anyone needs to counter the stupidity in the article, which could have been produced by a simian with a keyboard.

There are some recognizable words, and maybe even a sentence sporadically pops up, but there is no apparent or consistent thesis that will withstand more than cursory scrutiny.

nyesq83
04-09-2010, 10:44 AM
Orin Starn in today's NYTimes hates Duke...'s status as an enormously successful Div I school in sports.

Orin, if you love Div III sports so much:

PLEASE leave Duke and move to a Div III school, where you can be a big fish in a small pond, and where you can give "funky courses" all day long (and classes will never be cancelled).

davekay1971
04-09-2010, 10:49 AM
On the other hand, SI.com has a collection of Duke articles up on their Vault section - the SI articles from the 1991, 1992, 2001 championships, as well as an article from the 1999 season. Enjoy!

Kewlswim
04-11-2010, 04:07 PM
Hi,

I've been wondering (and there is no way of knowing one way or the other) if all this misplaced hate came back to bite the haters. Maybe we should be happy for all the hate because if they had all shown us love the "karma" gods wouldn't have been on our side. :)

GO DUKE!

Mudge
04-12-2010, 11:58 AM
So I attended an alumni event with a speech by President Brodhead last week-- he, of course, mentioned his pleasure at the result for the basketball team. In the Q&A session, I told him that I, too, was pleased at the result by the team-- but that I was very disappointed that a large section of the rest of the country uses any success by our basketball team to initiate a screaming fit of irrationality which vociferously reaffirms their hatred of our school, our coach, our team, our players, our fans, and (most importantly) our students and alumni-- none of the reasons for which seem to have anything to do with reality. I asked Brodhead what, if anything, Duke should (or could) do about this sad state of affairs.

Predictably (for a highly rational, educated man dealing with irrational and poorly educated critics), Brodhead went through a tautology which posed the question: "What do you expect us to do-- start NOT bringing in true student-athletes, NOT making them go to class, and NOT graduating them?... No, we are going to continue doing exactly what we have been doing. Duke is not going to begin some kind of 'Charm Offensive', as we have exactly nothing for which to apologize."

At this point, I thought Brodhead's response sounded so much like the "Letter to Shareholders" from Goldman Sachs last week (albeit soundly argued), I asked-- "Why couldn't we (begin a charm offensive)-- Goldman Sachs is doing it." To this, Brodhead replied-- "Well, I think the jury is still out on how successful they'll be-- we'll wait and see if they get anywhere with that."

So, the question in my mind is: Has Duke somehow moved into that same sphere as Goldman Sachs-- admittedly very good at what they do, with excellent reasons for what they do, but despised nevertheless, for making everyone else feel second-best, somehow. And more importantly (rather than hand-wringing over this scenario), should we (the larger Duke community- both official and unofficial) try to do anything to reverse this perception of Duke? IS a charm offensive called for here?

CrazieDUMB
04-12-2010, 12:08 PM
I've spent a lot of time wrestling with this concept, and I don't think there's a good answer. The problem with hate is that it's hate - it has no basis in reality, so trying to talk someone out of it with logic is impossible. You can't argue with someone who believes that Duke gets all the calls- they see it one way and there's no way for them to look at it in a different way. Another problem is that other types of hate (racism, religious intolerance, etc) have a significant social backlash against them, as they should.

No one says that hating Duke is a bad idea - it seems the sports world is the only place where bias is not only accepted, but encouraged.

So what do we do? I think the answer is just to smile, and not take it so seriously. The anti-duke articles really used to upset me until I realized that's what they're designed to do - pick on someone. The only way to make it stop is to show that it doesn't affect you. The next time someone says F Duke to you, laugh at it and ask them why they feel that way. Usually they'll realize how stupid it is as they're stating their reasons, if they have reasons at all. It's surprisingly disarming to respond to that kind of hate with a measured tone. Just an idea.

Cameron
04-12-2010, 12:17 PM
As Reggie Miller once said, I love being the enemy.

Embrace it. We are hated because We Are Duke.

Nothing brings me more pleasure than when I'm at a big Duke game, walking through the corridors outside the arena, listening to the jeers. It's like Mozart. You aren't Duke. That makes me smile every time, all the time.

Probably not the drawn out, highly analyzed response you were looking for, but it works for me. Enjoy it, because, however arrogant it may sound, we are the measuring stick.

Mudge
04-12-2010, 12:20 PM
This link from the Ohio State fan board (a "moderated forum"- HAH!) pretty much sums up the hate from the largely white fan base at other schools for Duke:

"[A]ctually....people who don't hate duke is what baffles me. tons of unathletic goobers running around getting every break imaginable. how do you not hate that?" (http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/buckeye-basketball/619631-title-game-butler-7-5-vs-duke-ov-un-128-5-9-15-et-cbs-7.html#post1686722)

This gem came from one of the "moderators" of that board. It really does correspond pretty closely with the phrase one hears in a certain religious community about someone being a "self-hating ---".

These short, white ethnic guys hate Duke because they are convinced that: 1) Wojo, Chris Collins, Greg Paulus, Bobby Hurley, JJ Redick, Jon Scheyer, and Kyle Singler are unathletic white guys--just like themselves (never mind that Paulus, Hurley, Redick, Scheyer, and Singler all have played or are likely to play at the highest level of professional sports-- it's kind of like insisting that Rocky Bleier couldn't possibly be any better than me, even though he was a starting running back on several Super Bowl championship football teams); and 2) Therefore, the only rational explanation for these guys being able to be dominant winners on the collegiate level is that they are getting all the calls- UNFAIRLY.

It seems no one ever hates someone else so much as the guy who has apparently taken the same gifts and talents as everyone else, and done so much more with it-- then it is perceived as some sort of unfair lottery-- "Why did he get to have so much more than me-- he's no better than me!" Why this form of lottery effect seems to bother the white fans of other schools more than the unfairness of not being born 6'8" or taller, with lightning quick speed and gravity-defying leaping ability, I don't quite understand-- in the larger scheme of things, that would seem a lot more unfair than not being able to accomplish what Wojo, Collins, Paulus, Redick, or Hurley have, with similar physical tools (misguided though they are about those guys' athletic ability).

Stray Gator
04-12-2010, 12:25 PM
As Reggie Miller once said, I love being the enemy.

Embrace it. We are hated because We Are Duke.

Nothing brings me more pleasure than when I'm at a big Duke game, walking through the corridors outside the arena, listening to the jeers. It's like Mozart. You aren't Duke. That makes me smile every time, all the time.

Probably not the drawn out, highly analyzed response you were looking for, but it works for me. Enjoy it, because, however arrogant it may sound, we are the measuring stick.

I agree that we might as well embrace our role. At the end of the Butler game, and walking back from Lucas to the Hilton to greet the team, I found myself repeatedly shouting to no one in particular: "Muncie Central wins!!! Hail, Goliath!!!" :D

sagegrouse
04-12-2010, 12:26 PM
FWIW, I see two different kinds of reactions about Duke:

The great unwashed masses of serious sports fans, who watch Sports Center and its ilk, read the blogs, and follow all kinds of sports, seem to have a problem with Duke. It isn't tied to anything terribly rational. I don't count attitudes at Maryland, Carolina and Kentucky as irrational -- those seem to be rivalries. And BTW, things seem to be improving; there is a backlash beginning, fed largely by the working stiffs on TV and in the press, saying basically, "Enough is enough."


The casual fans, who seldom watch Sports Center, who never read a sports blog, and are not in any sense sports nuts, seem to really like Duke. I call this the "great washed masses." But then they never post a message or respond to a blog; and consequently, get to weigh in only in casual conversations. I suspect the second group is a lot more numerous that the first. Unhappily the first group makes a lot more noise.


sagegrouse

Kewlswim
04-12-2010, 12:26 PM
Hi,

When an analyst talks on CNBC s/he has to provide any potential conflicts. If people could read things like "attended UNC" or "wasn't able to secure an interview with Coach K" or what have you people reading the articles or watching the analyst on tv might be like...hmmm not sure we can trust this one.

"So you feel Duke really does bad things and is evil and skirts the rules just like everyone else?"

"Yes, I truly believe that is true, all successful teams do."

At the bottom of the guy doing the interview it shows "UNLV grad"...would the population take him/her so seriously? (This is just a made up example)

GO DUKE!

LSanders
04-12-2010, 12:51 PM
The casual fans, who seldom watch Sports Center, who never read a sports blog, and are not in any sense sports nuts, seem to really like Duke. I call this the "great washed masses." But then they never post a message or respond to a blog; and consequently, get to weigh in only in casual conversations. I suspect the second group is a lot more numerous that the first. Unhappily the first group makes a lot more noise.


sagegrouse

I agree. Duke is on TV all the time for ONLY one reason: Duke=Big ratings. Haters may tune in for big games in the hope of seeing us lose. However, week in and week out, Duke remains a ratings monster. And, I believe the "washed masses" are to thank for that.

However, as mentioned above, I also wear the disdain of the unenlightened as a badge of honor. I certainly understand how the jeering became gasoline poured on the competitive fire of JJ, Laettner, et al.

CrazieDUMB
04-12-2010, 12:55 PM
Yeah, shame on us, CrazieDUMB; what do we know?

You can go on to write "accurately" like Gregg Doyel, Gary Parrish, Doug Gottleib, etc. I think I prefer the commentary of many on this board who apparently have love-goggles on.

In the year of a national championship, how much is there "to disparage your own team?".

It's also okay to celebrate your own team.

Sorry if this topic is old hat, but I wanted to clarify what I meant. When I said I appreciated his writing, it's because he comes from a devil's advocate position. I don't think it's terribly out of line to suggest that the overwhelming majority of the comments on this board is pro-everything Duke. Thats fine, and I am never at a loss to find things to like about our team, but I think people can tend to gloss over our deficiencies as a result.

SCSD purposely takes a cynical angle - does that mean he's always right? Of course not, but he does bring up weaknesses that a lot of Duke fans don't want to think about. And I enjoy knowing about that stuff, because as the season progresses I can focus on whether or not we're shoring up those holes.

Sometimes I think the SCSD guy goes a bit overboard, but that's his writing style. He also brings up (what I believe to be) legitimate issues, as opposed to the Gottleib/Doyel drivel that just makes baseless and ridiculous accusations about the character of our coach and team.

And yes, we won a NC, but did anyone think that was a foregone conclusion during the season? I sure didn't think so after the NC St game, or the GA tech game, and especially the G'town game. I'm a fan, and as much as I love this team I can also get really nervous about our weaknesses. If that makes me a self-hating Duke fan, then so be it. At least now I have a solid 187 days before I worry about why we won't win the NC again ;).

Indoor66
04-12-2010, 02:06 PM
Those that dislike Duke (for whatever reason) talk about it. Those that like Duke or don't seriously care about the issue, don't.

Many of gratuitously us talk about what bothers us - the lousy service at a restaurant, a poor product, etc. We let slide or rarely talk about the good service or good product, unless asked. I think it is the same for Duke "hating." A few care, a few make a living being controversial, and most don't care.

Personally, I ignore the haters and wear my Duke gear proudly.

7duke4
04-12-2010, 06:38 PM
It was his 50th birthday and he was extremely drunk. He came up to me and said "F*** Duke, no offense" over and over. I said that I did take offense and left. I cried all the way home - sorry, but I don't see how people think they have the right to insult other people's schools right to their face.

Duke Parent 06
04-12-2010, 07:03 PM
This link from the Ohio State fan board (a "moderated forum"- HAH!) pretty much sums up the hate from the largely white fan base at other schools for Duke:

"[A]ctually....people who don't hate duke is what baffles me. tons of unathletic goobers running around getting every break imaginable. how do you not hate that?" (http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/buckeye-basketball/619631-title-game-butler-7-5-vs-duke-ov-un-128-5-9-15-et-cbs-7.html#post1686722)

This gem came from one of the "moderators" of that board. It really does correspond pretty closely with the phrase one hears in a certain religious community about someone being a "self-hating ---".

These short, white ethnic guys hate Duke because they are convinced that: 1) Wojo, Chris Collins, Greg Paulus, Bobby Hurley, JJ Redick, Jon Scheyer, and Kyle Singler are unathletic white guys--just like themselves (never mind that Paulus, Hurley, Redick, Scheyer, and Singler all have played or are likely to play at the highest level of professional sports-- it's kind of like insisting that Rocky Bleier couldn't possibly be any better than me, even though he was a starting running back on several Super Bowl championship football teams); and 2) Therefore, the only rational explanation for these guys being able to be dominant winners on the collegiate level is that they are getting all the calls- UNFAIRLY.

It seems no one ever hates someone else so much as the guy who has apparently taken the same gifts and talents as everyone else, and done so much more with it-- then it is perceived as some sort of unfair lottery-- "Why did he get to have so much more than me-- he's no better than me!" Why this form of lottery effect seems to bother the white fans of other schools more than the unfairness of not being born 6'8" or taller, with lightning quick speed and gravity-defying leaping ability, I don't quite understand-- in the larger scheme of things, that would seem a lot more unfair than not being able to accomplish what Wojo, Collins, Paulus, Redick, or Hurley have, with similar physical tools (misguided though they are about those guys' athletic ability).

That is a MODERATED board indeed? Scroll down a ways.

DukieInKansas
04-12-2010, 07:34 PM
It was his 50th birthday and he was extremely drunk. He came up to me and said "F*** Duke, no offense" over and over. I said that I did take offense and left. I cried all the way home - sorry, but I don't see how people think they have the right to insult other people's schools right to their face.

I'm sorry to hear this. You do have a lot of friends here.

devildownunder
04-12-2010, 08:36 PM
Hi,

When an analyst talks on CNBC s/he has to provide any potential conflicts. If people could read things like "attended UNC" or "wasn't able to secure an interview with Coach K" or what have you people reading the articles or watching the analyst on tv might be like...hmmm not sure we can trust this one.

"So you feel Duke really does bad things and is evil and skirts the rules just like everyone else?"

"Yes, I truly believe that is true, all successful teams do."

At the bottom of the guy doing the interview it shows "UNLV grad"...would the population take him/her so seriously? (This is just a made up example)

GO DUKE!

I understand where this is coming from but this is a bad idea, imo. We should simply demand better journalism. A person's ideas -- and "facts" -- are what we should evaluate, not their resume, else we reduce the news to nothing but a series of ad hominen attacks. Oh wait, that's already happened. :(

Or maybe you were just joking?

RelativeWays
04-12-2010, 10:24 PM
I'm a little put out from all this Duke hatred, not because we won the championship and I feel this team deserves some modicum of respect (it does, but you know), I'm tired of it because its so played out, transparent, vapid and boring. Have any of the blogs and editorials you've read struck you as remotely original or well thought out? No, its the same tired cliched talking points you've heard for years, with little of no thought or merit to back up those points. The people who author the blogs know this, they get hits from the fans and haters. Thats it.

In 2007, while I hated it, I kind of understood it. People were sick of Duke, of JJ Redick, of Coach K and the commercials, to see the guys lose against VCU was a sort of catharsis for them. Once you have kids who attend Stanford or the Ivy League schools stating how they hate Duke for being too smug and to white (and being completely oblivious to the irony) that's it, its hit a saturation point. I'm expecting "I hate Duke" shirts at Hot Topic any day now. That should signal the death knell. Time for an original idea, kids.

Couple of notes. First I am admittedly disappointed that the nation as a whole can't at least respect this teams accomplishments, particularly a team led by 3 seniors and two juniors, and a team nobody seriously picked to win ANYTHING, "easy bracket" or not.

Second, I wonder if this Duke hatred is getting so blown out of proportion that it would take a VT sized tragedy on campus for people to wake up and realize that these are just kids like anyone else and nobody deserves that type of hatred. My lack of faith in humanity thinks that some people would actually cheer such an event.

Kewlswim
04-13-2010, 12:00 AM
I understand where this is coming from but this is a bad idea, imo. We should simply demand better journalism. A person's ideas -- and "facts" -- are what we should evaluate, not their resume, else we reduce the news to nothing but a series of ad hominen attacks. Oh wait, that's already happened. :(

Or maybe you were just joking?

Hi,

How about tongue-n-cheek? I think it would be great if there were more transparency in both the investment and Duke bashing world. In a medical journal, for example, one really has to know something because if one just spouts stuff it is quickly realized that the person has little of value to add. Unfortunately, these sports writers do things surreptitiously and get away with it.

GO DUKE!

devildownunder
04-13-2010, 01:41 AM
I'm a little put out from all this Duke hatred, not because we won the championship and I feel this team deserves some modicum of respect (it does, but you know), I'm tired of it because its so played out, transparent, vapid and boring. Have any of the blogs and editorials you've read struck you as remotely original or well thought out? No, its the same tired cliched talking points you've heard for years, with little of no thought or merit to back up those points. The people who author the blogs know this, they get hits from the fans and haters. Thats it.

In 2007, while I hated it, I kind of understood it. People were sick of Duke, of JJ Redick, of Coach K and the commercials, to see the guys lose against VCU was a sort of catharsis for them. Once you have kids who attend Stanford or the Ivy League schools stating how they hate Duke for being too smug and to white (and being completely oblivious to the irony) that's it, its hit a saturation point. I'm expecting "I hate Duke" shirts at Hot Topic any day now. That should signal the death knell. Time for an original idea, kids.

Couple of notes. First I am admittedly disappointed that the nation as a whole can't at least respect this teams accomplishments, particularly a team led by 3 seniors and two juniors, and a team nobody seriously picked to win ANYTHING, "easy bracket" or not.

Second, I wonder if this Duke hatred is getting so blown out of proportion that it would take a VT sized tragedy on campus for people to wake up and realize that these are just kids like anyone else and nobody deserves that type of hatred. My lack of faith in humanity thinks that some people would actually cheer such an event.


If it's one thing I've learned in recent years, it's that facts have little power to override emotion-based beliefs in the human mind. I can't remember where I read it but supposedly there is a study out that shows the brain makes no distinction between a faith-based belief and an empirical fact. And we see that in the words and actions of haters. They believe Duke is a talentless team with a lousy coach. If Duke wins the championship, does that disprove their hypothesis? Of course not. It just means Duke gets all the calls. If the other team shoots more free throws or the game is called in a style of play that clearly doesn't favor Duke, does that change their mind? Absolutely not, they find the one bad call that went Duke's way and hold it up as indisputable proof of the refs' bias in Duke's favor.

One of the big reasons for the hatred boiling over again this year -- aside from the team winning it all -- is that this team was written off by a lot of people as not NC material. So that means they made a lot of people look stupid, which makes them angry, and it also means a lot of people who hated Duke already not only have to deal with Duke winning it all, but also have to find some way to justify their dismissal of the team halfway through the season. So now they're having to summon up a LOT of emotional energy to be able to get themselves to swallow all the lies they've had to tell themselves as an explanation for how such an awful team managed to finish 35-5 and win the championship. For the team MUST be awful, that initial belief absolutely CANNOT be changed. And the result? Behold the tsunami!

cspan37421
04-13-2010, 05:19 AM
Agreed. You can't reason someone out of a belief they weren't reasoned into.

DevilHorns
04-13-2010, 07:30 AM
I'm a little put out from all this Duke hatred, not because we won the championship and I feel this team deserves some modicum of respect (it does, but you know)

Couple of notes. First I am admittedly disappointed that the nation as a whole can't at least respect this teams accomplishments, particularly a team led by 3 seniors and two juniors, and a team nobody seriously picked to win ANYTHING, "easy bracket" or not.


I found it very interesting to look a the tide of Duke hatred (going to inside carolina, wildcat nation, listening in on ESPN, talking to friends or anti-fans). Interestingly I found the "hate" (ie Duke is getting handed the championship, Duke gets all the calls, etc) peaked mostly after the Baylor game. That is because Baylor was on casual observation a team that we do not seem to be able to beat, and that it ran down to the wire with a few controversial calls that were frankly made super-controversial by the media. If one talking head on ESPN highlights a call, or if Kellogg talks about this Duke play or that Duke play, everything gets magnified for the public. No anti-fan truly thinks to this day that we should have beat Baylor.

That all changed after West Virginia. We absolutely annihilated them. My grin at that point was bigger than the Joker's, and I didn't think it really could get bigger (little did I know...:D). There was no hatred for the anti-Duke faithful to jump on. Things quieted down. WIldcatnation had a few dumb posts of how its unfair that WVU plays the best game of their lives against them, and that UK subsequently plays the worst game of their lives, and if WVU played like they did against UK then we would of lost. Just sour grapes. Not all fans at wildcat nation forum said this. Some were flat out giving us credit, full 100% credit. Realizing that WVU actually shot fairly well first half just we shot so much better. And that we finished the job. Beat the Big East champs. Things simmered down. Interestingly, I have found that the anti-fan has no appreciation for good defense. Just high-flying streaking dunking offense. Makes sense, especially since thats what ESPN likes to show.

alteran
04-13-2010, 10:47 AM
FWIW, I see two different kinds of reactions about Duke:

The great unwashed masses of serious sports fans, who watch Sports Center and its ilk, read the blogs, and follow all kinds of sports, seem to have a problem with Duke. It isn't tied to anything terribly rational. I don't count attitudes at Maryland, Carolina and Kentucky as irrational -- those seem to be rivalries. And BTW, things seem to be improving; there is a backlash beginning, fed largely by the working stiffs on TV and in the press, saying basically, "Enough is enough."


The casual fans, who seldom watch Sports Center, who never read a sports blog, and are not in any sense sports nuts, seem to really like Duke. I call this the "great washed masses." But then they never post a message or respond to a blog; and consequently, get to weigh in only in casual conversations. I suspect the second group is a lot more numerous that the first. Unhappily the first group makes a lot more noise.


sagegrouse

This is pretty much my feeling as well, although I would have taken three times as many paragraphs to express it. I would include much of the basketball media in your first group-- in the hater group, but also, as you mentioned, in the "enough is enough" group as well.

MarkD83
04-17-2010, 08:35 PM
The article about Duke haters on DBR is interesting. It brings up the point that maybe there are very few fans that are Duke haters, but perhaps there should be a study of the media. The media may hate Duke more than the average fan.

_Gary
04-17-2010, 09:18 PM
The article about Duke haters on DBR is interesting. It brings up the point that maybe there are very few fans that are Duke haters, but perhaps there should be a study of the media. The media may hate Duke more than the average fan.

Absolutely. I've maintained for a long time that the real catalyst of the Duke Hate phenomenon comes, not from the average fan as a grass roots effort, but instead from the media. They have created it, fed it, and sustain it right up to this day. That's where the problem lies, not with the general populace.

ricks68
04-17-2010, 09:24 PM
Where was the poll taken? If it were done here in Texas, the numbers would be entirely different. The answers to the basketball fan question would probably be something like: "I didn't know they played anything else but football in college." or "Is that the game with the round ball that you have to bounce? You don't have to kick it all the time, do you?":(

ricks

SCMatt33
04-17-2010, 09:31 PM
I have to point out that the poll was of "likely voters" and not the population in general. I guess it makes sense that Maryland, UK, and UNC fans wouldn't vote, anyway.

BobbyFan
04-17-2010, 10:58 PM
Well, now is not exactly a good time for Duke haters to proudly identify themselves as such.

Olympic Fan
04-18-2010, 08:41 AM
... perhaps there should be a study of the media. The media may hate Duke more than the average fan.

There is some truth in this, but I think we might be getting a little paranoid about this. I've seen posters on DBR and even the front page to react to stuff that's on bleacherreport and similar FAN sites. Those are not the media.

There is media hate -- the column from that idiot in Miami, the "juvenile" artwork in the Indy paper, the jealous rantings from Steve Lavin and Doug Gottlieb -- but we need to be careful to separate what some Duke-hating Maryland fan writes on a blog from what a (supposedly) professional journalist says or writes.

It lessons the impact of our criticism and provides satisfaction to those who poke at us to react to every internet attack. Carry it too far and we become as paranoid as State fans (who started with a legitimate beef about the way their hometown paper attacked them and was pro-UNC and carried it to ridiculous extremes).

Save your outrage for the journalists and broadcasters who act unprofessionally in their hate for Duke.

blueprofessor
04-18-2010, 09:51 AM
http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/02/uncduke-polling.html

There are many Duke fans in UNC. 35% of North Carolinians rooted for UNC and 21% for Duke in the March 10 game.
There is a split along ideology:
"Confirming the conventional wisdom, the further you move left across the ideological spectrum the more likely you are to be cheering for Carolina Wednesday night. Conservatives go for UNC by a 32-23 margin, followed by moderates at 36-20, and liberals at 41-17."



39% of UNC fans describe themselves as "hardcore" while only 19% of Duke fans do.

Earlier polls (national) revealed Duke as the most admired college bball program. K has a very positive national reputation , as well.

We have a national plurality. Declare victory--the media bias cannot control intelligent minds!!

Do our lovers love as intensely as our haters (media,UNC, and MD fans) hate?

Best to lovers--Blueprofessor:D

-bdbd
04-18-2010, 10:29 AM
There is some truth in this, but I think we might be getting a little paranoid about this. I've seen posters on DBR and even the front page to react to stuff that's on bleacherreport and similar FAN sites. Those are not the media.

There is media hate -- the column from that idiot in Miami, the "juvenile" artwork in the Indy paper, the jealous rantings from Steve Lavin and Doug Gottlieb -- but we need to be careful to separate what some Duke-hating Maryland fan writes on a blog from what a (supposedly) professional journalist says or writes.

It lessons the impact of our criticism and provides satisfaction to those who poke at us to react to every internet attack. Carry it too far and we become as paranoid as State fans (who started with a legitimate beef about the way their hometown paper attacked them and was pro-UNC and carried it to ridiculous extremes).

Save your outrage for the journalists and broadcasters who act unprofessionally in their hate for Duke.

Great post Olympic. Very well summarized.

I have long thought that, fans being just that - fanatics - that Duke hatred is driven by a few hard-core, obsessive and intensive anti-Duke types (with some varying motives). They are intense, focused and loud. It isn't all that dissimilar from politics where a core group of very energized, intense and (sometimes) well-funded activists can (and have) driven a whole political party, and the general discourse, in their preferred direction.

When the "legitimate" (mainstream) media personalities jump on - Stew Scott (UNC), Scott VanPelt (MD), Gottlieb, Packer (Wake), Lavin (UCLA), etc. - jump on and rev up the theme (it is an easy story for a reporter to jump on/follow/perpetuate), then those fanatics/hard-core types feel validated and emboldened. And the cycle repeats, worsens.

And, yes, I have a couple NCSU fan friernds who are pretty chagrined at that fanbase's over-reaction to the obvious pro-UNC coverage out of the Raleigh paper. But that fanbase has a few things to feel chagrin over... Good for us as a group to take all of this to heart, and not overreact to every silly fanatic or "out there" web posting by a silly, irrational hater. Be satisfied that we follow/support an excellent product, and don't be so self-conscious about those few critical of it - rational or otherwise. Good lesson to learn.

:D

coldriver10
04-18-2010, 10:40 AM
I can appreciate what the survey was trying to get at (and I agree in many ways), but polling 320 people (40% of 800) and then extrapolating it to the millions who watch college bball isn't exactly convincing.

sagegrouse
04-18-2010, 09:07 PM
Absolutely. I've maintained for a long time that the real catalyst of the Duke Hate phenomenon comes, not from the average fan as a grass roots effort, but instead from the media. They have created it, fed it, and sustain it right up to this day. That's where the problem lies, not with the general populace.

FWIW the sports opinion media are preaching to the converted. Nonsensical anti-Duke screeds are written by intelligent but lazy writers because they strike a chord among a segment of the hoops fans. I refuse to give the media credit for "hating Duke." Most of them, while cynical and lazy, are far too intelligent to not admire the many positive attributes of the players, the coaches, and the university.

The noisy semi-literates in the fan base that trumpet their dislike of Duke are showing their jealousy, their ignorance, or both. So be it. And the hacks in the media will reward their behavior with a helping of pander. Gee. Sounds like politics, doesn't it?

sagegrouse

dyedwab
04-18-2010, 10:04 PM
First of all, Neil Newhouse and POS is really good pollster, and I say this as someone who spends his professional life trying to beat his candidates. :-)

So, a couple of points:

1) Since the initial screen on the poll was "likely voters", I wonder a couple of things. "Likely voters" tend to be both older and have higher incomes then the general population. And this trend is more pronounced in non-Presidential years. So I wonder if this misses something of a generation gap in Duke hating.

2) I'm surprised to see that more people ID as Duke fans than as Duke hater, but I'm not sure that is the right comparison. Simply, I wonder if any other college basketball team would have 10% of a sample self identify as haters.

3) Finally, quick response to this quote:


I can appreciate what the survey was trying to get at (and I agree in many ways), but polling 320 people (40% of 800) and then extrapolating it to the millions who watch college bball isn't exactly convincing.

This isn't an argument against this poll; this argument against any and all polling. How can a sample of 800, or 320 be representative of an entire population? The short answer is that it is a random sample. see CBS News for its' explanation. "How can so few people represent millions of Americans? The answer is that we draw a random sample of the whole public. Basic math tell us that if we follow the procedure outlined above, our sample will be an almost perfect replica of the whole country"
http://wap.cbsnews.com/site?sid=cbsnews&pid=sections.detail&catId=TOP&storyId=299401&viewFull=yes

This is a really interesting result that i'd love to explore further.