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feldspar
11-28-2009, 04:05 PM
The ACC has their hands full this year with a relatively loaded Big 10 Conference. Here are the matchups:

Mon, Nov 30: Penn St. at Virginia
Tue, Dec 1: Wake Forest at Purdue
Northwestern at NC State
Maryland at Indiana
Michigan St. at UNC
Virgina Tech at Iowa
Wed, Dec 2: Illinois at Clemson
Minnesota at Miami
Boston College at Michigan
Duke at Wisconsin
Florida St at Ohio St

That's a lot of great matchups. The ACC has four ranked teams (Duke, UNC, Maryland and Clemson) and the Big 10 has six (Purdue, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio St, Minnesota and Michigan St).

This could very well be the year the Big 10 finally wins the thing. But I wouldn't count the ACC out just yet.

dukeballer2294
11-28-2009, 05:33 PM
The ACC has their hands full this year with a relatively loaded Big 10 Conference. Here are the matchups:

Mon, Nov 30: Penn St. at Virginia
Tue, Dec 1: Wake Forest at Purdue
Northwestern at NC State
Maryland at Indiana
Michigan St. at UNC
Virgina Tech at Iowa
Wed, Dec 2: Illinois at Clemson
Minnesota at Miami
Boston College at Michigan
Duke at Wisconsin
Florida St at Ohio St

That's a lot of great matchups. The ACC has four ranked teams (Duke, UNC, Maryland and Clemson) and the Big 10 has six (Purdue, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio St, Minnesota and Michigan St).

This could very well be the year the Big 10 finally wins the thing. But I wouldn't count the ACC out just yet.

obviously barring upset i see 3 games that will sway the challenge to 1 side
PSU v VIrginia
NW v NSU
VTECH v Iowa
I think other than these games there is a clear favorite in the rest, making theses games crucial for the title

throatybeard
11-28-2009, 07:37 PM
Anyone else sort of tired of this event? A lot of ACC teams play BE teams OOC as it is, and the BE has too many teams. The central concept is great, but I'd like to see us mix it up a bit, Big XII, SEC, Pac 10, anyone.

uh_no
11-28-2009, 09:04 PM
obviously barring upset i see 3 games that will sway the challenge to 1 side
PSU v VIrginia
NW v NSU
VTECH v Iowa
I think other than these games there is a clear favorite in the rest, making theses games crucial for the title

the Big 10 also went 0-4 friday night....all losses to unranked teams....

Bob Green
11-28-2009, 09:04 PM
Anyone else sort of tired of this event?

Yes. This is the 11th year for the ACC - Big 10 Challenge and I just as soon it be the last. I like the whole "Challenge" idea, but this one seems to have lost its luster. An ACC - Big 12 Challenge sounds intriguing. I'd welcome the opportunity for an early season match-up against Kansas or Texas or Oklahoma.

uh_no
11-28-2009, 09:05 PM
Anyone else sort of tired of this event? A lot of ACC teams play BE teams OOC as it is, and the BE has too many teams. The central concept is great, but I'd like to see us mix it up a bit, Big XII, SEC, Pac 10, anyone.

what does the big east have to do with the big 10 Acc challenge?

Bob Green
11-28-2009, 09:11 PM
what does the big east have to do with the big 10 Acc challenge?

The point I believe Throaty was making is that he would prefer to see ACC teams play schools from the Big 12, Pac 10, SEC etc...instead of all the games against the Big 10. There are already a number of ACC Big East match-ups.

Incidentally, prior to the ACC - Big 10 Challenge there was an ACC - Big East Challenge.

kmspeaks
11-28-2009, 09:23 PM
what does the big east have to do with the big 10 Acc challenge?


The point I believe Throaty was making is that he would prefer to see ACC teams play schools from the Big 12, Pac 10, SEC etc...instead of all the games against the Big 10. There are already a number of ACC Big East match-ups.

Incidentally, prior to the ACC - Big 10 Challenge there was an ACC - Big East Challenge.

Either that or he was referring to the Big 10 with what their real initials should be. The Big Eleven= BE

Bob Green
11-28-2009, 09:53 PM
Either that or he was referring to the Big 10 with what their real initials should be. The Big Eleven= BE

That has to be it. I'll go back to drinking my beer and quit trying to interpret other poster's thoughts. :)

Newton_14
11-28-2009, 10:42 PM
Just for fun I thought I would take a stab at picking the winners. I will take anything over .500 and be satisfied I guess.

So here we go:

Mon, Nov 30:
Penn St. at Virginia (I'll take UVA only because they are the home team.)

Tue, Dec 1:
Wake Forest at Purdue (Purdue)

Northwestern at NC State (State. Not sure why though. Iffy pick)

Maryland at Indiana (Twerps. Indiana is not there yet)

Michigan St. at UNC (Mich St. No explanation needed)

Virgina Tech at Iowa (Va Tech. I know, I know. But Iowa is terrible)

Wed, Dec 2:
Illinois at Clemson (Clemson. Only because they are at home)

Minnesota at Miami (Minnesota. Miami is young in the wrong places)

Boston College at Michigan (Michigan. Same reason as above)

Duke at Wisconsin (Duke. Alarmingly Un-Athletic team to score more points)

Florida St at Ohio St (Ohio St. FSU not looking good right now)

So ACC squeezes out another one and takes the title 6-5.

brevity
11-29-2009, 02:24 AM
As long as we're guessing... (home teams in caps)

Penn State over VIRGINIA
PURDUE over Wake Forest
Northwestern over N.C. STATE
Maryland over INDIANA
NORTH CAROLINA over Michigan State
Virginia Tech over IOWA
CLEMSON over Illinois
Minnesota over MIAMI
MICHIGAN over Boston College
Duke over WISCONSIN
OHIO STATE over Florida State

So, 6-5, the other direction. Upside: maybe the ACC will be less interested in continuing this Challenge once they lose one.

Year in and year out, I see the slate and find myself unexcited to see 8 or 9 of the matchups. For example, VT-Iowa may turn out to be a great game, but it doesn't look appealing right now.

sleepybear
11-29-2009, 03:20 AM
Penn St. at Virginia
Wake Forest at Purdue
Northwestern at NC State
Maryland at Indiana
Michigan St. at UNC
Virgina Tech at Iowa
Illinois at Clemson
Minnesota at Miami
Boston College at Michigan
Duke at Wisconsin
Florida St at Ohio St

I predict 6-5 Big Eleven

Olympic Fan
11-29-2009, 01:13 PM
Well, I've been hearing "the is the year the Big Ten breaks through" forever. Sooner or later, it's going to be true. But like Clemson winning in Chapel Hill, I'mn not going to predict it until it happens.

I have a rule of thumb that has served me well ... the homecourt means much more when you're talking about bad or mediocre teams. Good teams win on the road -- in fact, that's almost the definition of a good team. Also, I hate this year's matchups. Going into the season Michigan State and Purdue are clearly the Big Ten favorites, while Duke and UNC are the clearcut ACC favorites. Why aren't they playing each other? In know they try to balance home and away -- last year UNC played MSU in Detroit ... to be fair, they should have MSU-UNC in Greensboro. Last year Duke was at Purdue ... why not Purdue at Duke this year? How come Purdue gets a second straight home game and Duke has to go on the road again?

Anyway, this is how I see it:

1. Penn State at Virginia. Penn State basketball has certainly improved under Ed DeChellis -- they won the NIT last year and they return a first-team league guard in Tailor Battle. But they lost two key players and they are struggling -- losses to Tulane and UNC Wilmington, a two-point win over a very weak Davidson team. Virginia isn't great, but their five-point loss to Stanford doesn't look as bad after the Stanford-Kentucky game and they looked pretty good in beating Cleveland State. Again, the homecourt edge in this matchup between two mediocre teams should give the ACC a 1-0 start.

2. Northwestern at NC State. A good test for the unbeaten Pack. The Wildcats are rebuilding a bit after last year's near NCAA miss (still no NCAA bids EVER). They looked good in the Chicago Invitational (played at CIC), upsetting Notre Dame and Iowa State. Their one loss to Bradley is no embarrassment. NC State has looked shaky in a couple of wins against mediocre opponents. I use my homecourt rule of thumb -- I give State the edge at home. Anywhere else, I'd pick Northwestern. ACC 2-0.

3. Wake Forest at Purdue. This was a slam dunk BEFORE Wake lost to W&M. A middle of the pack ACC team at the best or second-best Big Ten team? ACC 2-1.

4. Maryland at Indiana. One of the best matchups in the entire challenge. Indiana isn't much better than last year (6-25). They've already lost to Boston U, George Mason and Ole Miss this year. Maryland has been a disappointment, losing twice in Maui (to two decent, but not great teams -- Cincinnati and Wisconsin). I still think Maryland's veterans can go on the road and win against a bad team. Anywhere else and it's a slam dunk for the Terps. Even in Bloomington, I like Maryland. ACC 3-1.

5. Michigan State at UNC. After watching UNC lose to Syracuse, I thought this would be a slam dunk for the Spartans. But the loss to Florida on a neutral court (plus the earlier homecourt struggle against Gonzaga) makes me wonder. Let's see how UNC looks tonight against Nevada. At the moment, I'm picking MSU -- I think Izzo can exploit UNC's backcourt and its lack of 3-point shooting. Added spice because Roy essentially calls Delvon Roe a liar in his new book. I'm picking MSU, but not as confidently as I did last week. ACC 3-2.

6. Virginia Tech at Iowa. Usually a tough place to play, but Iowa has already lost at home to Texas San Antonio and Duquesne (which was playing without its best player). A neutral court loss to Texas is no big deal, but it was followed with a 17-point loss to Wichita State. Iowa did bounce back to beat NCCU at home by 10. VPI ain't playing great, but Malcolm Delaney is good enough to win this one by himself (although if Jeff Allen could help, it would help). ACC 4-2.

7. Illinois at Clemson. Clemson beat a better Illinois team in Champaign last year. Of course, that was a better Clemson team too. The Tigers certainly laid an egg against a good, but not great Texas A&M team. I'll be interested to see how they play against Butler tonight. But in any case, Illinois has done nothing to make anybody think they can win in a tough place like Littlejohn. They struggled to break away from Wofford at home, then left left home for the first time and lost to rebuilding Utah (picked fourth in the Mountain West) and Bradley (picked sixth in the MVC). ACC 5-2.

8. Minnesota at Miami. May actually be the best matchup of the Challenge. Tubby Smith's team is solid (not great). They beat No. 10 Butler in the 76 Classic, then lost to Portland in the second round. Look carefully at how they do against Texas A&M today. Miami is intriguing. They are off to a 7-0 start and that includes a decent win over South Carolina (in semi-neutral Charleston) and fairly routine wins over Tulane and UNC Wilmington, which have beaten some good teams. Miami's young guards, Durant Scott and Malcolm Grant, have had some good moments. This will be a good test to see whether the 'Canes can be a lot better than the team picked 10th in the ACC in preseason. It's in Miami, but that's not much of a homecourt edge. I'll pick Minnesota, but this is probably my least solid pick. ACC 5-3.

9. Boston College at Michigan. BC is still without Rakin Sanders. I'd pick Michigan in Ann Arbor anyway, but that makes it a slam dunk (even if he comes back, his ankle ain't right, yet). ACC 5-4.

10. Duke at Wisconsin. Tough place to play against a solid, well-coached team. But Wisconsin is not as good as the Purdue team Duke routed last year in an equally tough environment. And I think Duke is better than a year ago. This is where the homecourt shouldn't impact a good team. ACC 6-4.

11. FSU at Ohio State. I think FSU is going to be decent. Their loss to Florida in Gainesville doesn't look so bad after UF knocked off Michigan State. But nothing I've seen makes me think the Seminoles are good enough to go to Columbus and win. Tonight's game with Marquette might change my mind. ACC 6-5

So, I guess I've got the ACC winning by one game -- but I really feel more confident than that -- my two least confident picks are Minnesota over Miami and MSU over UNC. If anything, I could see ACC 8-3 before Big Ten 6-5.

Acymetric
11-29-2009, 01:22 PM
Winning team is in bold:

Penn St. at Virginia
Wake Forest at Purdue
Northwestern at NC State
Maryland at Indiana
Michigan St. at UNC
Virgina Tech at Iowa
Illinois at Clemson
Minnesota at Miami
Boston College at Michigan
Duke at Wisconsin
Florida St at Ohio St

That puts the ACC at 7-4. I feel like I'm going out on a limb with BC and Miami, but neither win will surprise me, I think at least one team wins to get us 6-5, but I'll still call 7-4.

ghendo
11-29-2009, 03:38 PM
yo guys I post on a ACC messageboard and they are doing a ACC-Big 10 Challenge Pick'em where the person who gets the most answers right gets a prize of their choice...cash,hat,t-shirt, etc.

Just wanted to pass this along to my DBR friends and hope you guys don't beat me! lol

http://accsportszone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=103

dukemsu
11-29-2009, 11:02 PM
The ACC has their hands full this year with a relatively loaded Big 10 Conference. Here are the matchups:

Mon, Nov 30: Penn St. at Virginia
Tue, Dec 1: Wake Forest at Purdue
Northwestern at NC State
Maryland at Indiana
Michigan St. at UNC
Virgina Tech at Iowa
Wed, Dec 2: Illinois at Clemson
Minnesota at Miami
Boston College at Michigan
Duke at Wisconsin
Florida St at Ohio St

That's a lot of great matchups. The ACC has four ranked teams (Duke, UNC, Maryland and Clemson) and the Big 10 has six (Purdue, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio St, Minnesota and Michigan St).

This could very well be the year the Big 10 finally wins the thing. But I wouldn't count the ACC out just yet.

Per usual, I hate Big 10/ACC battles as each of my teams is involved, and I generally end up defending each conference to my pals from the other. I get a bit weary of the Conference v. Conference stuff, too. But oh well.

Here are my winners:
Penn State. Talor Battle is really good.
Purdue, in what will be a coming out party for the Boilers as Final Four threats
Maryland
NC State. Northwestern's best player, Coble, is lost due to knee surgery.
UNC, due to the homecourt and the fact that State tends to overprepare for these sorts of games. UNC, frankly, is due for a good performance.
Virginia Tech. Iowa is among the worst teams in Division I.
Clemson. Illinois is a great team at home, average anyplace else.
Minnesota, in a big way. The Gophers will be ranked for much of the season.
Michigan, due to the homecourt.
Duke, no explanation necessary.
Ohio State, as Turner atones for his dreadful UNC performance at home.

6-5 ACC.

dukemsu

Acymetric
11-30-2009, 07:13 PM
Since game 1 of the challenge has started I figured I would bring this thread back to the top...early in the game Virginia looks good, obviously plenty of time left. If UVA picks up this game I think it helps the chances of the ACC winning significantly.

RainingThrees
11-30-2009, 07:26 PM
This won't happen but if UNC was playing the last game of the challenge and it was tied up...would you want UNC winning and the ACC winning, or UNC losing and the ACC losing. I say I would rather that UNC would lose and because of that the ACC lose.

airowe
11-30-2009, 07:36 PM
This won't happen but if UNC was playing the last game of the challenge and it was tied up...would you want UNC winning and the ACC winning, or UNC losing and the ACC losing. I say I would rather that UNC would lose and because of that the ACC lose.

http://womenandtheirwork.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/easy-button.jpg

sagegrouse
11-30-2009, 08:34 PM
After a ten point lead in the first half, the Hoos are now behind by 11. Not pretty.

sagegrouse

Newton_14
11-30-2009, 08:47 PM
This won't happen but if UNC was playing the last game of the challenge and it was tied up...would you want UNC winning and the ACC winning, or UNC losing and the ACC losing. I say I would rather that UNC would lose and because of that the ACC lose.

I would take that outcome every year of the challenge and be quite happy with it. If it means UNC-CH takes a loss I am all for it regardless of any mitigating circumstances...

juise
11-30-2009, 11:52 PM
After a ten point lead in the first half, the Hoos are now behind by 11. Not pretty.


The Hoos pulled within 1 in the closing seconds, but couldn't quite catch up. I think the ACC probably needed this game to win the challenge, but we can hope for better performances tomorrow (excluding the Heels, of course).

striker219
12-01-2009, 12:33 AM
This was the same Penn State team that lost to UNCW. Let me say that again. UNCW. What happened?


(sorry Seahawks, no hate for the hometown team, you just haven't been very impressive lately)

JasonEvans
12-01-2009, 07:27 AM
There is just not a lot of talent on that UVA roster. Guess how many kids on that team were ranked in the top 50 coming out of high school?

1

Sylvan Landesberg was the #33 recruit. Heck, they only have like 3 or 4 other guys who were even top 100 recruits. I am not saying that recruiting is the end all, be all of college success, but it helps. Virginia is, in my opinion, the least talented team in the ACC.

--Jason "still, this was a big game for the conference and it is going to take some somewhat surprising results for the ACC to win this year's challenge" Evans

Saratoga2
12-01-2009, 08:37 AM
This was the same Penn State team that lost to UNCW. Let me say that again. UNCW. What happened?


(sorry Seahawks, no hate for the hometown team, you just haven't been very impressive lately)

I thought Penn State were quicker and more aggressive throughout the game. Virginia lack real size with only a 6'8" player in their starting lineup and seemed to be beaten to the ball and out of position defensively during the parts that I watched. Virginia is not going to be rated highly in the ACC

keithg
12-01-2009, 12:18 PM
Jason "still, this was a big game for the conference and it is going to take some somewhat surprising results for the ACC to win this year's challenge" Evans

Interestingly enough the ACC is favored in 4 of the 5 games tonight with only WF being a 10 point dog to Purdue

nc -2
ncst -4 to 5
md -4 to 5
vt -3

superdave
12-01-2009, 02:38 PM
I decided, having only seen the second half of the 'Cuse game, to see what UNC's guys were up to so far this year:
http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2009-2010/teamcume.html

A few things jump out at me in their stats.

1- A prominent 2nd scorer has not emerged to compliment Deon Thompson. Three guys averaging between 10 and 12.7 isnt going to cut it. Someone needs to make the leap. Davis maybe?

2. They have a +11 rebounding average, which is about what you'd expect from a team with this much athleticism at the 3-4-5 positions.

3. They are giving up over 70 ppg on average. That includes G-W and FIU topping 70. That's a bad sign. Outside of Ginyard, is anyone on that team considered a really strong defender?

4. They are shooting 51.5% from the floor as a team. Very strong. Although their 3 pt % is only 36% even with Drew and Ginyard shooting a high %. (Why does Will Graves play? He should not be in their rotation.)

5. John Henson is a real disppointment: 3.6 and 2.6 in 10 minutes of action. This guy was supposed to be Kevin Durant. It's about time they had a big letdown.

6. Finally, my question all off-season has been what does Larry Drew bring to the table: 7.7 points and 6.7 assists in 25 minutes. Not bad, but he ought to be scoring a little more if they are running a true Roy Williams' push-push-push the ball up court offense.

Super "I'll tune in tonight and try to pay attention" Dave

juise
12-01-2009, 08:32 PM
Interestingly enough the ACC is favored in 4 of the 5 games tonight with only WF being a 10 point dog to Purdue

Bah.

NC State has never really looked like they were going to challenge for the lead (at home).
Maryland is in a dogfight in Bloomington.
Wake has relinquished its lead over Purdue. Their 4-11 free throw performance is killing them. Purdue is living at the line (14-17) while they shoot 28% from the floor. The turnover differential is also not helping the Deacs (14 for WF to PU's 4). Those stats remind me of Duke's recent win on Friday.

juise
12-01-2009, 09:08 PM
Two double-digit losses for the ACC and the Big 10 leads 3-0. Let's see if the Terps can hold on.

Incidentally, Northwestern's leading scorer was Michael Thompson. No... not that Michael Thomspon. This one's a guard out of Chicago (not a center from Joliet), but I definitely did a double-take.

WiJoe
12-01-2009, 09:12 PM
Two double-digits losses for the ACC and the Big 10 leads 3-0. Let's see if the Terps can hold on.

If the ACC wins only two games in this "challenge" DUKE and the Terps are the two I want.

:eek:

:cool:

love the emoticons

ice-9
12-01-2009, 09:20 PM
The Big 10 just needs to get to 4 wins today to win the Challenge because tomorrow...

- BC is AT Michigan
- Florida State is AT Ohio State
- Not to mention Minnesota at Miami, which ought to be close

Therefore, the UNC and Maryland games are must wins.

DevilHorns
12-01-2009, 09:21 PM
ACC:0 Big Ten:3

Monday, Nov. 30
Penn State 69 at Virginia 66

Tuesday, Dec. 1
Maryland at Indiana
Michigan State at North Carolina
Northwestern 65 at N.C. State 53
Virginia Tech at Iowa
Wake Forest 58 at Purdue 69

Wednesday, Dec. 2
Boston College at Michigan
Duke at Wisconsin
Florida State at Ohio State
Illinois at Clemson
Minnesota at Miami

slower
12-01-2009, 09:39 PM
Carolina is potentially putting a beatdown on MSU and is getting contributions from their freshmen, including both Wears.

DevilHorns
12-01-2009, 09:41 PM
Carolina is potentially putting a beatdown on MSU and is getting contributions from their freshmen, including both Wears.

strickland is freakishly fast. henson needs to eat something.

CDu
12-01-2009, 09:41 PM
Carolina is potentially putting a beatdown on MSU and is getting contributions from their freshmen, including both Wears.

More importantly than the Wears, we're seeing Strickland and Drew look pretty good tonight. Those guys are the key. If UNC gets consistent production from those two, they become a really balanced and strong team with Thompson and Davis in the post.

And Henson is even starting to figure out how to take advantage of his athleticism.

ice-9
12-01-2009, 09:57 PM
Dang, the Holes look good.

Everyone is playing well on that team.

slower
12-01-2009, 09:58 PM
50-34 as Strickland cans a 3 to end the half.

CDu
12-01-2009, 09:59 PM
UNC up 50-34 at the half. They're looking really good. Strickland and Drew are playing great. If they keep playing remotely close to this well, they'll be right there among the elite teams again.

DevilHorns
12-01-2009, 09:59 PM
I cant believe this is the tarheel team that played syracuse. they are absolutely hitting everything. to be fair though, mich st has missed several open looks, and has made a lot of easy point around the basket due to absent defense. offensively though, carolina looks incredible. freshman and sophs at one point contributed 31 of 36 pts. nasty.

FerryFor50
12-01-2009, 10:00 PM
I don't see how they keep up a 64% shooting clip. And MSU isn't helping matters by jacking up bad shot after bad shot.

jipops
12-01-2009, 10:00 PM
I cant believe this is the tarheel team that played syracuse. they are absolutely hitting everything. to be fair though, mich st has missed several open looks, and has made a lot of easy point around the basket due to absent defense. offensively though, carolina looks incredible. freshman and sophs at one point contributed 31 of 36 pts. nasty.

Yeah, they still may put more talent on the floor than anyone else in the ACC - even after losing their top 6 scorers.

MSU still has a run in them but this game is essentially over.

dukelifer
12-01-2009, 10:01 PM
I cant believe this is the tarheel team that played syracuse. they are absolutely hitting everything. to be fair though, mich st has missed several open looks, and has made a lot of easy point around the basket due to absent defense. offensively though, carolina looks incredible. freshman and sophs at one point contributed 31 of 36 pts. nasty.
This is a team that will play well at home. I expect a second half swoon though- we shall see. Hard to keep up 60% shooting.

El_Diablo
12-01-2009, 10:04 PM
Yeah, they still may put more talent on the floor than anyone else in the ACC - even after losing their top 6 scorers.

MSU still has a run in them but this game is essentially over.

They lost their top 4 scorers...not top 6.

CDu
12-01-2009, 10:07 PM
This is a team that will play well at home. I expect a second half swoon though- we shall see. Hard to keep up 60% shooting.

Well, part of that 60% is that they're getting a lot of layups. They've only attempted 5 threes. Even if they'd gone 0-5, they'd still be shooting 55%. Drew and Strickland and Drew are hitting shots, getting into the lane for buckets, and creating for others (5:1 assist:turnover ratio). That's a good sign from them.

Their percentage is likely to fall off because MSU will likely play better defense in the second half, along with cooling off from deep. But the fact that they can put up a half like that against a top-10 team illustrates that they'll still be dangerous for us.

jimsumner
12-01-2009, 10:08 PM
Just got back from the State-Northwestern game. Thompson is a real player.

But State has maybe four ACC players, one of whom (Smith) is an ACC starter and he's playing out of position. NW put a matchup zone on them and they didn't have the vaguest idea how to attack it. 2-18 on threes and the guys taking the three were the guys you would want to take them, i.e. Wood, Mays, Gonzalez.

The Virginia-NCSU games could set ACC basketball back years.

Wheat/"/"/"
12-01-2009, 10:14 PM
UNC showed a little of their potential that half. My favorite part of college basketball is watching good players develop and this team is a great case study.

Defense looked very good, expecially when you consider all the players that saw time that half.

MSU playing very physical, lots of shoulders and elbows, not dirty, just really tough. This is a good game for the young uns to get a taste of what a big time match up is all about, and Roy has them on the court to sense it. They stepped up too.

Don't think this game is over by any stretch. MSU is a very good and tough team. UNC just played really well for that half.

UNC has to limit the TO's and set the D in the second half.

loran16
12-01-2009, 10:15 PM
The Virginia-NCSU games could set ACC basketball back years.

You know Jim, coming from you, i fell out of my chair laughing at this one.

That said, be nice to UVA, Landesburg is totally legit on UVA and might make that interesting.

NC State on the other hand....Sidney Lowe needs to go. Seriously, he's set back NC State decades.

DukieBoy
12-01-2009, 10:29 PM
Just got back from the IU-Maryland game.

Grevis Vasquez is a monster.

This team is a veteran team who can handle a lot of challenges. Assembly Hall was rocking at points tonight and Vasquez took over. He found the open man and made the smart plays.

And the zone of Maryland is very solid. They make you shoot some deep shots and when you drive, they collapse. Some of the kick out passes were there, but we just couldn't knock down the shots.

But Maryland is going to be a tough game this year. Do we play at Maryland this year?

jipops
12-01-2009, 10:29 PM
They lost their top 4 scorers...not top 6.

Either it was a typo or I counted Ty and Tyler twice

dukelifer
12-01-2009, 10:29 PM
Well, part of that 60% is that they're getting a lot of layups. They've only attempted 5 threes. Even if they'd gone 0-5, they'd still be shooting 55%. Drew and Strickland and Drew are hitting shots, getting into the lane for buckets, and creating for others (5:1 assist:turnover ratio). That's a good sign from them.

Their percentage is likely to fall off because MSU will likely play better defense in the second half, along with cooling off from deep. But the fact that they can put up a half like that against a top-10 team illustrates that they'll still be dangerous for us.
UNC is always dangerous for Duke. UNC has a lot of talent up front- I think they can get worn out over time- but they are capable of playing like this any night.

DevilHorns
12-01-2009, 10:30 PM
mich st is still pushing fast upcourt successfully, though unc is still hitting everything. even zeller's terrible + blockable shots are going in.

come on mich st, lets get some D and go on a run. definitely plausible as mich st can light it up fast.

BlueintheFace
12-01-2009, 10:34 PM
This is just two teams running and shooting. Whoever hits the most shots wins. Hey Izzo, newsflash, this is not an intelligent gameplan when you are the road team going up against a team that's offensive gameplan revolves around the fast break.

Just Foolish.

jipops
12-01-2009, 10:42 PM
This is just two teams running and shooting. Whoever hits the most shots wins. Hey Izzo, newsflash, this is not an intelligent gameplan when you are the road team going up against a team that's offensive gameplan revolves around the fast break.

Just Foolish.

They've closed to 10. Obviously something is working.

DevilHorns
12-01-2009, 10:44 PM
Wow I swear I've seen two rebounds now that unc is out-of-bounds tossing it as a save and not getting called. state needs to hit their And-1s already.

loran16
12-01-2009, 10:47 PM
Just got back from the IU-Maryland game.

Grevis Vasquez is a monster.

This team is a veteran team who can handle a lot of challenges. Assembly Hall was rocking at points tonight and Vasquez took over. He found the open man and made the smart plays.

And the zone of Maryland is very solid. They make you shoot some deep shots and when you drive, they collapse. Some of the kick out passes were there, but we just couldn't knock down the shots.

But Maryland is going to be a tough game this year. Do we play at Maryland this year?

We always play @ Maryland. Maryland is designated as one of our "permanent rivals."

DevilHorns
12-01-2009, 10:59 PM
with 3:40 to go mich st slows it down and cant get a shot off even after calling timeout with over 10 sec to go on the clock? this team is frustrating. i feel like they have the talent to take carolina if they just could make a few more better decisions. urgh!

DevilHorns
12-01-2009, 11:03 PM
wow thompson for 3 with little over 2 min left playing slow down? roy's going to yell at him for that.

FerryFor50
12-01-2009, 11:05 PM
If I were a Carolina fan, I'd be concerned that the season has consisted of:

- a blowout loss to Syracuse
- leading by sizable margins against MSU and OSU and seeing the teams come back to within a few points in the closing minutes
- struggling against marginal teams like Nevada and Valpo

The only real solid wins they've had are against cream puff teams... what's going to happen when they get into the meat of the ACC schedule?

loran16
12-01-2009, 11:16 PM
If I were a Carolina fan, I'd be concerned that the season has consisted of:

- a blowout loss to Syracuse
- leading by sizable margins against MSU and OSU and seeing the teams come back to within a few points in the closing minutes
- struggling against marginal teams like Nevada and Valpo

The only real solid wins they've had are against cream puff teams... what's going to happen when they get into the meat of the ACC schedule?

If i were a carolina fan, I'd be thrilled that my team bounced back from the Cuse Loss to beat an MSU team ranked #2 last week.

You're really nitpicking here. My frosh year of school, when JJ and Shelden were Seniors, we needed dockery to beat VT, and then looked less than impressive at home to beat UPenn.
We then beat #2 Texas by 30 points. And all seemed fine.

Seriously, what matters is that you WIN. How you win doesn't matter.

DevilHorns
12-01-2009, 11:19 PM
ACC:2 Big Ten:3

Monday, Nov. 30
Penn State 69 at Virginia 66

Tuesday, Dec. 1
Maryland 80 at Indiana 68
Michigan State 82 at North Carolina 89
Northwestern 65 at N.C. State 53
Virginia Tech at Iowa
Wake Forest 58 at Purdue 69

Wednesday, Dec. 2
Boston College at Michigan
Duke at Wisconsin
Florida State at Ohio State
Illinois at Clemson
Minnesota at Miami

kong123
12-01-2009, 11:23 PM
yeah, some like to be hyper critical of the holes because we all hate them, but midway through their tough non-conference schedule, they have only lost 1 game. If we had won all of these games, pretty or not, we would be quite satisfied. they are starting to gell a bit, we all knew that they would, but if they continue to miss free throws they are beatable. 18 of 30 will not cut it. if they continue to turn the ball over 20 times a game, they are beatable.

FerryFor50
12-01-2009, 11:27 PM
If i were a carolina fan, I'd be thrilled that my team bounced back from the Cuse Loss to beat an MSU team ranked #2 last week.

You're really nitpicking here. My frosh year of school, when JJ and Shelden were Seniors, we needed dockery to beat VT, and then looked less than impressive at home to beat UPenn.
We then beat #2 Texas by 30 points. And all seemed fine.

Seriously, what matters is that you WIN. How you win doesn't matter.

Really? So closing a team out and not letting them crawl back into it isn't important? Especially an MSU team that was undersized and is looking more and more overrated?

And that year where JJ and Shelden were seniors... remind me what happened?

Oh that's right... they got shut down by LSU in the 3rd round of the NCAAs.

Yes, a win's a win... but how the games are decided are pretty good indicators of how a season might go for a team.

FerryFor50
12-01-2009, 11:28 PM
yeah, some like to be hyper critical of the holes because we all hate them, but midway through their tough non-conference schedule, they have only lost 1 game. If we had won all of these games, pretty or not, we would be quite satisfied. they are starting to gell a bit, we all knew that they would, but if they continue to miss free throws they are beatable. 18 of 30 will not cut it. if they continue to turn the ball over 20 times a game, they are beatable.

So in the same post, you mention that UNC only lost one game, but then cite two of the main problems they're going to have this year. ;)

gep
12-01-2009, 11:30 PM
with 3:40 to go mich st slows it down and cant get a shot off even after calling timeout with over 10 sec to go on the clock? this team is frustrating. i feel like they have the talent to take carolina if they just could make a few more better decisions. urgh!

I only watched the last 10+ minutes. To me (*very* non-technical basketball fan) MSU "looked" pretty bad. I don't know if it's because unc is that good, or MSU played that bad.... as you say, very frustrating. I, too, yelled at the TV after that time out and got nothing...:rolleyes:

kong123
12-01-2009, 11:33 PM
So in the same post, you mention that UNC only lost one game, but then cite two of the main problems they're going to have this year. ;)

we all know the holes are not the 4th best team they were predicted to be. they have not played well, at least to the nations expectations. there are areas to improve upon and those are free throws and turnovers. i think i gave constructive criticism that isn't completely biased from a duke perspective.

by the way, a young team has to learn how to win.

snowdenscold
12-01-2009, 11:33 PM
ACC:2 Big Ten:3

Monday, Nov. 30
Penn State 69 at Virginia 66

Tuesday, Dec. 1
Maryland 80 at Indiana 68
Michigan State 82 at North Carolina 89
Northwestern 65 at N.C. State 53
Virginia Tech at Iowa
Wake Forest 58 at Purdue 69

Wednesday, Dec. 2
Boston College at Michigan
Duke at Wisconsin
Florida State at Ohio State
Illinois at Clemson
Minnesota at Miami

ACC tied it up 3-3 with VT finally putting away Iowa 70-64. Close there for awhile.

FerryFor50
12-01-2009, 11:34 PM
we all know the holes are not the 4th best team they were predicted to be. they have not played well, at least to the nations expectations. there are areas to improve upon and those are free throws and turnovers. i think i gave constructive criticism that isnt completely biased. there is a difference...

And that was different from my post how...? :)

dukemsu
12-01-2009, 11:34 PM
Outstanding effort by UNC. State had the predicted problems with the bigs-but battled to a near draw on the glass. The Heels played their best game to date. It seems the Spartans draw their best effort and performance every time. dukemsu

loran16
12-01-2009, 11:35 PM
Really? So closing a team out and not letting them crawl back into it isn't important? Especially an MSU team that was undersized and is looking more and more overrated?

And that year where JJ and Shelden were seniors... remind me what happened?

Oh that's right... they got shut down by LSU in the 3rd round of the NCAAs.

Yes, a win's a win... but how the games are decided are pretty good indicators of how a season might go for a team.

And we won the acc. And Florida looked meh down the stretch and thus turned into a 2 seed before winning the title.

UNC's not a dominant team. But their fans are probably thrilled right now. Saying otherwise is well, kind of using the tinted glasses a bit too much.

-----------------
3-3 after Day 2. That's fine for the ACC. IF Duke and Clemson win, we need one of three teams to pull off the upset. I think it happens and the acc wins 6-5.

DevilHorns
12-01-2009, 11:37 PM
Really? So closing a team out and not letting them crawl back into it isn't important? Especially an MSU team that was undersized and is looking more and more overrated?

And that year where JJ and Shelden were seniors... remind me what happened?

Oh that's right... they got shut down by LSU in the 3rd round of the NCAAs.

Yes, a win's a win... but how the games are decided are pretty good indicators of how a season might go for a team.

Very wise, though this UNC team is very young and unestablished (as opposed to our senior team with landlord and JJ). They have a bigger margin to improve in my opinion, meaning, if they learn from their mistakes in these early tough games, they can end the season incredibly strong. And they sure do have the tough early schedule, including future games with Texas and UK. I have an eerie feeling that Roy's willingness to push this team early will pay dividends in the future.

BlueintheFace
12-01-2009, 11:39 PM
Duke, Clemson, and one of three potential ACC away upsets can lock this baby up.

FerryFor50
12-01-2009, 11:47 PM
Very wise, though this UNC team is very young and unestablished (as opposed to our senior team with landlord and JJ). They have a bigger margin to improve in my opinion, meaning, if they learn from their mistakes in these early tough games, they can end the season incredibly strong. And they sure do have the tough early schedule, including future games with Texas and UK. I have an eerie feeling that Roy's willingness to push this team early will pay dividends in the future.


Absolutely.

They also have a lot of room to blow it, too. (Which yes, is my hope.) :p

Wheat/"/"/"
12-01-2009, 11:50 PM
I was really impressed with the UNC toughness tonight, if you think UNC is all about finesse, watch this game again. Lots of bumping and banging out there.

MSU is a very good team, and like all Izzo teams played physical and never quit. This was a Feb. quality game.

Some quick player notes:

Drew...Anybody still think he's the weak link or not an ACC quality PG?

Davis... He's good ;)

Deon... He's good too. (He will run for the brain freeze 3pt shot late, count on it).

Zeller...Needs to keep working on his strength. He battled, but he was pushed around a lot tonight.

Henson.... finally showed what he can bring to the game. He is a jump shot and a few cheeseburgers away from something special.

Graves...I've been wondering why Roy starts Graves and then sits him for long stretches. Tonight I think I saw why. Roy knows what he has in Graves and is developing Henson and the Wear boys. When it was crunch time, Graves was back on the floor and played with experience. I like that he is still not forcing shots.

Strickland... has settled down after looking so bad the first few games. He has an aggressive streak in his game.

All UNC's big men have good hands.

UNC defense was very good tonight. Allowed some back door cuts that they will work on, but give MSU some credit in execution and finishing ability. It's hard to shoot over such a long, relatively quick team that keeps their feet, and I thought UNC did very good job on the glass too.

Quality win against a solid top ten team.

DevilHorns
12-01-2009, 11:52 PM
Absolutely.

They also have a lot of room to blow it, too. (Which yes, is my hope.) :p

Very true. :) I think Texas takes them, and as much as John Wall irritates me, I hope UK edges them. I have feeling UK will want it more in that game to prove that UK belongs in the discussion again as an elite squad.

ice-9
12-02-2009, 04:54 AM
Back to the ACC-Big 10 challenge:

The way I see it, Minnesota at Miami is the key game of the challenge.

Michigan SHOULD beat BC.
Ohio State SHOULD beat FSU.
Duke SHOULD beat Wisconsin.
Clemson will PROBABLY beat Illinois.

5-5, leaving Minnesota at Miami as the deciding factor.

Minnesota is likely the better team, but Miami has homecourt advantage and Minnesota may be tired from playing in Anaheim.

Still, the ACC has beaten the Big 10 by one game five times already, so you get the feeling the Big 10 is due. I think this year we lose 5-6.

Or, Clemson lays an egg and loses to Illinois. That's possible too.

I guess I don't *really* care all that much as long as Duke wins.

oldnavy
12-02-2009, 07:13 AM
I was really impressed with the UNC toughness tonight, if you think UNC is all about finesse, watch this game again. Lots of bumping and banging out there.

MSU is a very good team, and like all Izzo teams played physical and never quit. This was a Feb. quality game.

Some quick player notes:

Drew...Anybody still think he's the weak link or not an ACC quality PG?

Davis... He's good ;)

Deon... He's good too. (He will run for the brain freeze 3pt shot late, count on it).

Zeller...Needs to keep working on his strength. He battled, but he was pushed around a lot tonight.

Henson.... finally showed what he can bring to the game. He is a jump shot and a few cheeseburgers away from something special.

Graves...I've been wondering why Roy starts Graves and then sits him for long stretches. Tonight I think I saw why. Roy knows what he has in Graves and is developing Henson and the Wear boys. When it was crunch time, Graves was back on the floor and played with experience. I like that he is still not forcing shots.

Strickland... has settled down after looking so bad the first few games. He has an aggressive streak in his game.

All UNC's big men have good hands.

UNC defense was very good tonight. Allowed some back door cuts that they will work on, but give MSU some credit in execution and finishing ability. It's hard to shoot over such a long, relatively quick team that keeps their feet, and I thought UNC did very good job on the glass too.

Quality win against a solid top ten team.

Wheat,
I've been bashing on the holes all season, but I have to give credit where credit is due. That by far was UNC's best game. The completely took MSU out of anything that they tried to do. Everyone on the team seemed to have a extra hop in their step. Even the crowd seemed alive for a change. Although they slacked off a little in the second half, that is to be expected to a certain degree. I am not completely changing my assessment of the holes after this one game, but they did show some things last night that warrents them a top 10 ranking.
Congratulations on a BIG win.

CDu
12-02-2009, 07:43 AM
I was really impressed with the UNC toughness tonight, if you think UNC is all about finesse, watch this game again. Lots of bumping and banging out there.

UNC is a finesse team this year. They don't look for contact in the paint. They sometimes have to play through it (and Zeller, for example, clearly doesn't do that so well), but that doesn't make them a physical team. Thompson's game is all turnaround jumpers and hook shots. Zeller is all hook shots, fast breaks, and face-up jumpers. The Wears' games are all spot-up jumpers. Davis is the only one who really fights to get to the rim among the bigs, but even he focuses more on using angles and length to work around defenders. I thought MSU (despite being undersized) was the more physical team. UNC's bigs just had more skill.

That's not necessary going to be a problem for them. Thompson and Zeller have great shooting touch, and Davis has really long arms. And as you said, they have very good hands around the rim and can get a lot of second chance points.

The big thing for UNC was the progress shown by Drew, Strickland, and Henson. The point guards had 27 points, 9 assists, and only 1 turnover. Now, obviously they aren't going to shoot 9-12 most nights. But if they continue to progress, there aren't many teams in the nation that are better this year.

But ultimately, this game came down to one thing: shooting. MSU shot 2-20 from 3-point range and looked tentative a lot out there, and UNC shot amazingly well. That was largely the difference in the ball game.

Wheat/"/"/"
12-02-2009, 09:12 AM
UNC is a finesse team this year. They don't look for contact in the paint. They sometimes have to play through it (and Zeller, for example, clearly doesn't do that so well), but that doesn't make them a physical team. Thompson's game is all turnaround jumpers and hook shots. Zeller is all hook shots, fast breaks, and face-up jumpers. The Wears' games are all spot-up jumpers. Davis is the only one who really fights to get to the rim among the bigs, but even he focuses more on using angles and length to work around defenders. I thought MSU (despite being undersized) was the more physical team. UNC's bigs just had more skill.

That's not necessary going to be a problem for them. Thompson and Zeller have great shooting touch, and Davis has really long arms. And as you said, they have very good hands around the rim and can get a lot of second chance points.

The big thing for UNC was the progress shown by Drew, Strickland, and Henson. The point guards had 27 points, 9 assists, and only 1 turnover. Now, obviously they aren't going to shoot 9-12 most nights. But if they continue to progress, there aren't many teams in the nation that are better this year.

But ultimately, this game came down to one thing: shooting. MSU shot 2-20 from 3-point range and looked tentative a lot out there, and UNC shot amazingly well. That was largely the difference in the ball game.

Can't disagree with much of this...except I thought this team fought well for rebounds and to get to the rim. And what I see from the Wear boys is much more than just face up jumpers.

UNC does have a lot of finesse from its big guys. But note my point was that UNC " is not all about finesse".

Agree MSU was more physical, and UNC did their best to match it, they played tough last night and I don't think many fans thought that was a trait this team was likey to show.

The 2-20 tentitive shooting was because of UNC's length and good footwork on D. Shooting over 6'10 or bigger is tough and MSU found that out. UNC did a great job of contesting just about everything.This team is a very good defensively, one of UNC's best in a long time. I saw at least three shot clock violations UNC forced last night.

superdave
12-02-2009, 09:39 AM
Drew - I was impressed with Larry Drew for two reasons and unimpressed for others last night. His jumper is better than I thought, and his handles are impressive. He seems to push the ball without purpose sometimes though and that forces him into corners, bad shots or hurried passes to unready teammates. He is better than I expected but the speed of the game throws off his decisions and instincts a bit.

Thompson - He looked bad. 5 TOs from a big are unacceptable. He is a finesse guy though. Does not like contact on his post moves.

Davis - His dunk at the end sealed it. If he can get a solid drop-step move, he'll be special. A ways to go before he's a consistent 15-16 ppg guy.

Wears, Zeller, Henson - All good hands as was previously mentioned, all willing to shoot, none are confident in their abilities yet.

Defense- Better than expected. They forced a frenetic pace that MSU tried to adopt as well. Why didnt Izzo slow the game down? Of course, MSU looked like crap in half court sets too.

Overall, I thought the game was disjointed a sloppy. UNC is not prepared to push the ball as much as they do. They have all the tools to do it, but the guys are not ready for a track meet with their decision making skills.

Super "Roy is so goofy" Dave

dukemsu
12-02-2009, 10:12 AM
Drew - I was impressed with Larry Drew for two reasons and unimpressed for others last night. His jumper is better than I thought, and his handles are impressive. He seems to push the ball without purpose sometimes though and that forces him into corners, bad shots or hurried passes to unready teammates. He is better than I expected but the speed of the game throws off his decisions and instincts a bit.

Thompson - He looked bad. 5 TOs from a big are unacceptable. He is a finesse guy though. Does not like contact on his post moves.

Davis - His dunk at the end sealed it. If he can get a solid drop-step move, he'll be special. A ways to go before he's a consistent 15-16 ppg guy.

Wears, Zeller, Henson - All good hands as was previously mentioned, all willing to shoot, none are confident in their abilities yet.

Defense- Better than expected. They forced a frenetic pace that MSU tried to adopt as well. Why didnt Izzo slow the game down? Of course, MSU looked like crap in half court sets too.

Overall, I thought the game was disjointed a sloppy. UNC is not prepared to push the ball as much as they do. They have all the tools to do it, but the guys are not ready for a track meet with their decision making skills.

Super "Roy is so goofy" Dave

Why didn't Izzo slow the game down? Because, as you say above, they look like crap in half court sets right now. They ran their offense through Suton last year at the high post, and no one can take on that role yet. Izzo knew he was cooked going in unless the guards had a shooting night like UNC's did. He went with what he thought would give him a shot. Had he slowed the game, State would have turned the ball over 30 times and UNC might have won by 30. Carolina was outstanding last night.

dukemsu

lpd1982
12-02-2009, 10:29 AM
UNC looked so much better than I expected them to that I had to turn it off. Tremendous room for improvement but that in and of itself is a bit disconcerting. They were sloppy, but sloppy can throw off a disciplined opponent. And sloppy coupled with confidence can sometimes be a winning combination. You can't depend on it night after night, but it's scarry to play against.

91_92_01_10_15
12-02-2009, 10:56 AM
Wheat,
Even the crowd seemed alive for a change.
Congratulations on a BIG win.

Yeah, Roy scolded the crowd after the Nevada game, going so far as to tell the folks that didn't show up that he was going to sell "their dad-gum ticket" for the MSU game.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cant-blame-us-for-missing-some-games-428939.html

I guess that was enough to get them up last night. We'll see how long it lasts.

CDu
12-02-2009, 11:09 AM
Drew - I was impressed with Larry Drew for two reasons and unimpressed for others last night. His jumper is better than I thought, and his handles are impressive. He seems to push the ball without purpose sometimes though and that forces him into corners, bad shots or hurried passes to unready teammates. He is better than I expected but the speed of the game throws off his decisions and instincts a bit.

Thompson - He looked bad. 5 TOs from a big are unacceptable. He is a finesse guy though. Does not like contact on his post moves.

Davis - His dunk at the end sealed it. If he can get a solid drop-step move, he'll be special. A ways to go before he's a consistent 15-16 ppg guy.

Wears, Zeller, Henson - All good hands as was previously mentioned, all willing to shoot, none are confident in their abilities yet.

Agreed on the player analyses. Drew had his best game considering the competition. He got a few lucky shots (one 12 foot sideways runner off-balance that found it's way in sticks out in my mind), but was otherwise still shot well. And a 6:1 assist:turnover ratio is nothing to sneeze at, especially in a game like this.

I'd group Carolina's big men like this (in terms of style): Davis, and the rest. Davis is VERY unpolished but he's the only one who really tries to mix it up inside. Everyone else looks for finesse shots. Thompson is very good with his turnaround jumper and baby hook, but he wants no part of the banging. Zeller has great hands, shooting touch and athleticism, but he wants even less of the banging. The Wears are very fundamentally sound, but against good bigs they sort of disappear to the periphery, getting spot-up buckets and loose change only. It's hard to say what they'll become when they catch up to the speed of the college game, but right now they're just filler with jumpshots in my opinion.

And yes - their bigs do turn it over too much. That being said, there aren't a lot of teams that are equipped to handle Carolina's bigs. They're fairly athletic, mostly skilled, and there are a lot of them. If Carolina's wings can shoot enough to prevent teams from collapsing on them, they'll be a top-5 or top-10 team, simply because there just aren't many good teams that I've seen this year.


Defense- Better than expected. They forced a frenetic pace that MSU tried to adopt as well. Why didnt Izzo slow the game down? Of course, MSU looked like crap in half court sets too.

Overall, I thought the game was disjointed a sloppy. UNC is not prepared to push the ball as much as they do. They have all the tools to do it, but the guys are not ready for a track meet with their decision making skills.

Super "Roy is so goofy" Dave

MSU is built to run. They have athletic (though a bit undersized) big men and a bunch of fast wing players. Lucas and Lucious are very small and can fly. Izzo feels that their best chance to win is to run, because in the half-court they're not as strong.

The problem for them is that UNC also wants to run, and that took a lot of the sting out of MSU's transition game. It seemed like every time MSU got a fast-break bucket, UNC countered with another one.

sandinmyshoes
12-02-2009, 11:10 AM
You could see portents of UNC's first half against MSU in the last seven minutes or so of their game against Nevada. They'll still be up and down, with streaky three point shooting and continuing problems at the free throw line, but they'll be very dangerous any given night.

It was painful to watch NCSU. Looking at their sparse crowd you get the feeling they are headed toward becoming...Iowa. Where the heck were the fans in Iowa? Was there a blizzard or something?

lpd1982
12-02-2009, 08:01 PM
Can we draft Trevor Booker???

loran16
12-02-2009, 08:21 PM
Good first half for the ACC. Clemson is assured a win.

BC Could blow it, but they've got a safe lead.

Miami down 5 at half, but was in it throughout the half.

I think BC wins, putting us up 5-4, with Duke Clinching it.

If Miami was also to win, a 7-4 or 8-3 final challenge score would be just awesome.

mgtr
12-02-2009, 08:40 PM
So, the big 10 takes gas again? I thought this was their year. Guess not.

loran16
12-02-2009, 08:52 PM
Clemson lead down to 4. My God. How do you blow a 20 point lead at home?

FireOgilvie
12-02-2009, 08:58 PM
Clemson lead down to 4. My God. How do you blow a 20 point lead at home?

Illinois was just up 2. Tied again now.

Even if the ACC wins the "Challenge," it's obvious that this is not a strong year for the conference (based on everything I've seen this year).

NYDukie
12-02-2009, 09:06 PM
Turn on ESPN to get ready to watch the Duke game with my wife and see that Clemson is in a dog fight and hear something of someone blowing a 23 point lead. Then I realize it's Clemson. Are you serious, p*ssing away a lead of that, at home, on national TV in a marquee inter-conference challenge? Then they wonder why they there are not held in the same regard as Duke or UNC even when they are top 20 or better.

_Gary
12-02-2009, 09:10 PM
Turn on ESPN to get ready to watch the Duke game with my wife and see that Clemson is in a dog fight and hear something of someone blowing a 23 point lead. Then I realize it's Clemson. Are you serious, p*ssing away a lead of that, at home, on national TV in a marquee inter-conference challenge? Then they wonder why they there are not held in the same regard as Duke or UNC even when they are top 20 or better.

And the worst of it all is that the game is going to go over the allotted TV time. Unless we get the Duke game on an alternate ESPN channel we will miss the start for sure. Ugh... Thanks Clemson. :mad:

YourLandlord
12-02-2009, 09:14 PM
Good first half for the ACC. Clemson is assured a win.


You are an idiot.

[and i mean that in the nicest way possible. :D]

NYDukie
12-02-2009, 09:16 PM
And the worst of it all is that the game is going to go over the allotted TV time. Unless we get the Duke game on an alternate ESPN channel we will miss the start for sure. Ugh... Thanks Clemson. :mad:

That's the one thing I hate about the 9/930 start times. Even though I get a chance to settle in after a day at work, take care of some chores, play with my lil daughter, etc. it just is annoying to get all excited about a game, turn on the station and see that the game before will eat about the first 5 minutes of the Duke game...the nerve...LOL

sagegrouse
12-02-2009, 09:19 PM
That's the one thing I hate about the 9/930 start times. Even though I get a chance to settle in after a day at work, take care of some chores, play with my lil daughter, etc. it just is annoying to get all excited about a game, turn on the station and see that the game before will eat about the first 5 minutes of the Duke game...the nerve...LOL

Duke tipoff at 9:22 according to the crawl....

Sagegrouse

Coballs
12-02-2009, 09:20 PM
If Clemson-Illinois goes long, I think that espn360.com will show our game...for those of us who can get it

juise
12-02-2009, 09:23 PM
Duke tipoff at 9:22 according to the crawl....

Sagegrouse

Duke won the tip and turned it over (watching on ESPN360).

NYDukie
12-02-2009, 09:23 PM
Duke tipoff at 9:22 according to the crawl....

Sagegrouse

Thanks for the tip and......

Clemson = embarrassment

jipops
12-02-2009, 09:23 PM
Clemson loss is devastating.

ice-9
12-02-2009, 09:27 PM
Yikes we're not playing well right now...
- Bigs missing layups
- Nolan not playing with his head

FireOgilvie
12-02-2009, 09:39 PM
If we win this game, we win the "Challenge!!!"

Clemson should be embarrassed.

ice-9
12-02-2009, 11:28 PM
The silver lining in the challenge is Miami -- they are legit -- and I am also pleasantly surprised with BC's win.

I thought we would've won but Wisconsin just played out of their minds.

Clemson lost the challenge for the ACC.

FireOgilvie
12-03-2009, 12:19 AM
Clemson lost the challenge for the ACC.

No. Duke lost the challenge for the ACC. We were the tie-breaking game and we lost. We are ranked 5th in the country and lost to an unranked Wisconsin team. Clemson blew a lead against a decent Illinois team at home, but I wasn't surprised at the final outcome. Clemson, like every team in the ACC this year, is just not that great so far.

YourLandlord
12-03-2009, 12:21 AM
No. Duke lost the challenge for the ACC. We were the tie-breaking game and we lost. We are ranked 5th in the country and lost to an unranked Wisconsin team.

Of course, at this time in the year poll rankings are meaningless. We were behind the entire game...i.e., wisconsin was better tonight.

clemson had a 20+ point lead at home and lost. that's a "blow it" game.

ice-9
12-03-2009, 03:44 AM
No. Duke lost the challenge for the ACC. We were the tie-breaking game and we lost. We are ranked 5th in the country and lost to an unranked Wisconsin team. Clemson blew a lead against a decent Illinois team at home, but I wasn't surprised at the final outcome. Clemson, like every team in the ACC this year, is just not that great so far.


Duke lost to a good Wisconsin team on the road.

Clemson, also ranked mind you, lost to Illinois at home by allowing their visitors a 32-3 run.

No, Clemson lost it for the ACC.

Duke's loss didn't help, but it was understandable. A 32-3 run, at home, against an opponent who is lower rated, is not understandable.

brevity
12-03-2009, 05:11 AM
Clemson vs. Duke? This is silly. Clemson, Duke, Florida State, N.C. State, Virginia, AND Wake Forest lost the Challenge for the ACC.

Not sure why we're pointing fingers anyway. Had the Challenge gone 10-1 for the ACC, with Wisconsin the only Big Ten victor, there'd be about as much griping.

sagegrouse
12-03-2009, 07:21 AM
The silver lining in the challenge is Miami -- they are legit -- and I am also pleasantly surprised with BC's win.

I thought we would've won but Wisconsin just played out of their minds.

Clemson lost the challenge for the ACC.

Sorry.

I think the headline is, "Big Ten Wins Challenge for the First Time as Duke Loses for the First Time."

I thought Scheyer's quote on the lead article was spot on:

“They just wanted it more, which is probably the worst thing I can say after games, that they wanted it more,” Scheyer said. “Especially on rebounding.”


sagegrouse