Around the Country (Nov 23-29)

[HCheek37]

After an interesting week with tons of close calls for top 25 teams, we enter another with with some big early season tournaments and a pretty big shakeup coming in the top 25. Post your thoughts about other teams and games in this thread for this week..

[jesus_hurley]

UMD-Chaminade is close. Maryland up 5 with 4:00 to play in the first half.

[SilkyJ]

UMD-Chaminade is close. Maryland up 5 with 4:00 to play in the first half.

Not close no mo'. MD finished the half strong (I guess) and led by 10 at half and is now up 15 at the 1st TV timeout in the 2nd half.

[SilkyJ]

Purdue took down the Vols 73-72. The vols missed two FTs up 1 with 17 seconds left and Chism missed a 3 pointer that would have won it. Why they were taking a 3 pointer with 6 seconds left and down 1 is beyond me, but hey I don't coach or play bball so what do I know :confused:

(note: I did not watch the game, just reading the play by play on ESPN.com, so if anyone saw this please add color/correct me)

[HCheek37]

Purdue took down the Vols 73-72. The vols missed two FTs up 1 with 17 seconds left and Chism missed a 3 pointer that would have won it. Why they were taking a 3 pointer with 6 seconds left and down 1 is beyond me, but hey I don't coach or play bball so what do I know :confused:

(note: I did not watch the game, just reading the play by play on ESPN.com, so if anyone saw this please add color/correct me)

It was a drive and kick..not really the shot you want but they closed down on the driving guard. So far Syracuse, Purdue, Miami, and Villanova have taken down the early season tourneys

[Olympic Fan]

Purdue took down the Vols 73-72. The vols missed two FTs up 1 with 17 seconds left and Chism missed a 3 pointer that would have won it. Why they were taking a 3 pointer with 6 seconds left and down 1 is beyond me, but hey I don't coach or play bball so what do I know :confused:

(note: I did not watch the game, just reading the play by play on ESPN.com, so if anyone saw this please add color/correct me)

I watched the final minutes of the game. It was actually PURDUE (and not Tennessee) which missed the two free throws with 17 seconds left. Actually, the Boilermakers missed three of four FTs in the final minutes to give Tennessee a chance.

Bruce Pearl called a timeout after the two Purdue misses to set up a game-winning play. For some reason, the Vols essentially held the ball for the last shot, down one. Then they ran a play -- as noted, a drive and kick, to set up Chism for a wide open 3-pointer from the top of the key.

Not a bad shot ... but Chism was nearly unstoppable down low. He had hit a 3-pointer just a little earlier, but he's a career 32 percent 3-point shooter. I guess it's a classic second guess to suggest they should have gone inside ... but I think it's a fair criticism to ask why they ran the clock down before attempting the shot at the buzzer.

Still, the best game I've seen this early season so far.

Looking forward to FSU at Florida tonight at 7 (on Fox Sports) and Virginia at Stanford at 9 (CBS College Sports Channel) .., plus, Maryland meets Cincinnati (which easily handled a Vandy team that manhandled UNC in their exhibition) at 7 in Maui (ESPN).

Should be a good night.

PS Not to excuse Boston College's loss to Northern Iowa, but the Eagles were playing without Rakim Sanders. Their top player missed the game with a sprained ankle.

[HCheek37]

My pick outside of Duke to win it all is texas and we'll see them in a big game tonight against Pittsburgh. They are favored by 8 points so we'll see how they do. Another interesting game to follow is the battle for upstate new york between Syracuse and Cornell. Cornell got off to a hot start this year before dropping a home game to Seton Hall and Syracuse has been mighty impressive in their tournament wins.

Another good night of college basketball!

[A-Tex Devil]

My pick outside of Duke to win it all is texas and we'll see them in a big game tonight against Pittsburgh. They are favored by 8 points so we'll see how they do. Another interesting game to follow is the battle for upstate new york between Syracuse and Cornell. Cornell got off to a hot start this year before dropping a home game to Seton Hall and Syracuse has been mighty impressive in their tournament wins.

Another good night of college basketball!

Take UT laying the points. Vegas hasn't figured them out yet. The Iowa game was only -15 last night. Texas by 12-15 tonight.

They are taking a page from Will Muschamp and the football team and becoming the sickest D in the country already - at least on the perimeter.

[Newton_14]

Just watched Arizona beat Colorado in OT. Very good game.

But get this, they had an interesting play near the end and I want to offer it up for discussion.

Arizona is in-bounding the ball against the press after Colorado scored to cut it to 3 at 90-87. There are 18.8 seconds left. Arizona gets it in, breaks the press and throws ahead to a wide open player who had gotten behind the defense. He was right at the basket and the clock was now at 13 seconds.

Rather than taking the sure 2 points to go up 5, the kid realized no one was around him and chose to dribble it out and play keep away. Which he and the team did to perfection. They made like 4 passes and by the time Colorado fouled, there were only 5 seconds left. But Jimmy Dykes was the ESPN announcer and he strongly disagreed with the kids decision. But it worked and the kid that pulled it out was the one who eventually got fouled and he made 1 of 2 free throws to ice it.

So, the question is, was it a good or bad decision to pull it out? Do you take the points or run the clock?

In essence, he chose to be up 3 points with the ball with what ended up being 5 seconds left, over being up 5 without the ball with the clock stopped at 13 seconds...

What say ye??

[Newton_14]

Maryland and Cincy tipping right now on ESPN.

I watched Cincy last night and Lance Stephenson looks like he will be a really good player. Should be a good game to watch tonight.

[Bluedog]

Maryland and Cincy tipping right now on ESPN.

I watched Cincy last night and Lance Stephenson looks like he will be a really good player. Should be a good game to watch tonight.

Wow, could that gym be any more empty? Probably a few hundred people there total, and it's a tiny tiny gym. I realize it's in Hawaii so it's a helluva plane ride for most people, but you'd think that those in Hawaii might like to watch some quality b-ball. I think the tickets are overpriced though based on previous years' prices.

Also, that bright bright yellow that the Maryland coaches are wearing is blinding! Even a close up of Gary, it looks like he's the Mizzou coach; the M looks the same as Mizzou and I don't associate that color with Maryland...although I realize yellow is one of their state colors...Should be an interesting game. I'll be rooting for Maryland because they are a part of the ACC even though I hate their fans...We'll see how Vasquez shoots; shot poorly last game.

[jesus_hurley]

Wow, could that gym be any more empty? Probably a few hundred people there total, and it's a tiny tiny gym. I realize it's in Hawaii so it's a helluva plane ride for most people, but you'd think that those in Hawaii might like to watch some quality b-ball. I think the tickets are overpriced though based on previous years' prices.

Also, that bright bright yellow that the Maryland coaches are wearing is blinding! Even a close up of Gary, it looks like he's the Mizzou coach; the M looks the same as Mizzou and I don't associate that color with Maryland...although I realize yellow is one of their state colors...Should be an interesting game. I'll be rooting for Maryland because they are a part of the ACC even though I hate their fans...We'll see how Vasquez shoots; shot poorly last game.

Maryland looked a little lost out there. Lot of turnovers under the basket where players got stuck in the air with no one to pass to. Still easy to dislike Vasquez, and he looks the same as he did last year (and still can't hit a shot tonight). Nothing new there. Stephenson is going to be really good.


Gonzaga vs Wisc is coming on later.

[Bob Green]

Do you take the points or run the clock?

What say ye??

I say take the points and play defense without fouling.

[jipops]

The ACC isn't faring too great so far.

Maryland looks pretty awful vs Cinci after only scoring 18pts in the 1st half. FSU is currently getting blown out by Florida. UVA is currently up one vs. Stanford at the half.

The terps look disappointing and Vasquez has struggled with his shot in the first 4 games this season.

[jesus_hurley]

I say take the points and play defense without fouling.

I agree with this. Take the points, press the inbounds and don't let them shoot a 3.

[-jk]

Well, JD did well, but the ACC's sucking wind. Looks like Wake will win, anyway.

-jk

[roywhite]

Not a good night for the ACC as Maryland, Virginia, and Florida State go down within a short period of time; maybe this is the year we finally lose the ACC/B10 Challenge.

At any rate, watched most of the Maryland game; they were not impressive. Didn't shoot well at all, from Vasquez on through the rotation. Cincinnati has some serious muscle; wouldn't be any fun to go up against them. Lance Stephenson is a powerful looking young guy; he's got some game, and Cincy also has a sophomore named Yates who might remind one of DeJuan Blair from last year's Pitt team.

[Bob Green]

At any rate, watched most of the Maryland game and they were not impressive.

It is not suprising for Maryland to be unimpressive in November. Gary Williams will have them ready by late January or early February. The Terps have some talent and they will be a tournament team.

[Bob Green]

Gonzaga is up 13 on Wisconsin with ~ 6 minutes left in the first half.

[Jim3k]

Down to 6 now.

But Gonzaga shows a lot more team quickness than the Badgers. Leur (sp?) has found and is exploiting a mismatch on the blocks for some easy close-in stuff. Once the Zags fix that it will be over.

[Jim3k]

And the quickness prevailed. Zags win by 15.

This will be a team for Duke to deal with in 3 weeks at the Garden. They are big and quick and they play pretty good defense. Bouldin looks like AA material to me. I think our bigs are more mobile than theirs, but they are not to be dismissed.

[HCheek37]

other than the MAIN action in the garden (which I'll be lucky enough to attend with the whole family), we have some interesting games around men's ball tonight and today:

Wisconsin vs Maryland (3rd place game in Maui) - interesting to see 2 future Duke opponents square off. I'm sure K and the coaches have all the tapes so far from Maui considering that Gonzaga, Wisco, Maryland are all regular season opponents.

Stanford vs Kentucky (Cancun) - Good luck tonight to Johnny D against the other evil blue squad. Will be a tough challenge but hopefully he will have some success and keep it close.

Gonzaga vs Cincy (Maui title game) - Cincy looks surprisingly good and Gonzaga has been one of the most impressive teams early (despite still not being top 25). Maybe Cincy will expose some weaknesses for Duke to exploit in a couple weeks.

Lastly it'll be interesting to see if Capel and Oklahoma can recover from their loss vs VCU...

[MulletMan]

So, the question is, was it a good or bad decision to pull it out? Do you take the points or run the clock?


What say ye??

Its hard to argue with something that worked, right? But really, what if they turn the ball over passing it around? Or worse, what if that kid doesn't make a FT and Colorado hits a three to tie it up?

I would say, with 18-20 second left, you should probably take the points. At that point, Colorado has to have two possessions to win, and though unlikely, it is possible to tie a game in one trip if you're only down 4 points.

That being said, how much time would the clock have to be down to for it to be a good decision to give up the basket and pull the ball out? I'd say around 5 seconds or so.

[Newton_14]

Its hard to argue with something that worked, right? But really, what if they turn the ball over passing it around? Or worse, what if that kid doesn't make a FT and Colorado hits a three to tie it up?

I would say, with 18-20 second left, you should probably take the points. At that point, Colorado has to have two possessions to win, and though unlikely, it is possible to tie a game in one trip if you're only down 4 points.

That being said, how much time would the clock have to be down to for it to be a good decision to give up the basket and pull the ball out? I'd say around 5 seconds or so.

I was torn on the decision to be honest. It did work but it was risky. Being up 3, if you have a chance to run the clock down to under 3 seconds or so, then pulling it out is probably the better decision. But with 13 seconds on the clock he took a risk as you noted. A turnover on one of those passes could have led to a tying 3..

All in all, with 13 seconds left and up 3, better to take the points to get it to a 2 possession game.

[ice-9]

Just watched Arizona beat Colorado in OT. Very good game.

But get this, they had an interesting play near the end and I want to offer it up for discussion.

Arizona is in-bounding the ball against the press after Colorado scored to cut it to 3 at 90-87. There are 18.8 seconds left. Arizona gets it in, breaks the press and throws ahead to a wide open player who had gotten behind the defense. He was right at the basket and the clock was now at 13 seconds.

Rather than taking the sure 2 points to go up 5, the kid realized no one was around him and chose to dribble it out and play keep away. Which he and the team did to perfection. They made like 4 passes and by the time Colorado fouled, there were only 5 seconds left. But Jimmy Dykes was the ESPN announcer and he strongly disagreed with the kids decision. But it worked and the kid that pulled it out was the one who eventually got fouled and he made 1 of 2 free throws to ice it.

So, the question is, was it a good or bad decision to pull it out? Do you take the points or run the clock?

In essence, he chose to be up 3 points with the ball with what ended up being 5 seconds left, over being up 5 without the ball with the clock stopped at 13 seconds...

What say ye??


You can answer this dilemma with more finality if you had probabilities to work out a scenario analysis.

My take is you have to take the points. What if Arizona had turned the ball over? Colorado could then shoot the 3 to tie the game.

But if that Arizona player had taken the guaranteed 2 then the Cats would be up 5 with all the pressure on Colorado. If Colorado scores a 2 then they're back to where they were before but with time off the clock; if Colorado scores a 3 then it's still a 2 point game and Colorado has to foul.

I have to think that the probability of losing a game when up 5 with 18 seconds left on the clock is much lower than the probability of losing a game up 3 with 5 seconds left (even if you have possession).

[rsvman]

Sure points are almost always better than running off time. If the points are SURE, take the points.

What if the guy stiff-arms the lay-up? Worst. case. scenario.

But if the guy can jump up and slam it down uncontested, I would always take the points.

[DevilHorns]

Sure points are almost always better than running off time. If the points are SURE, take the points.

What if the guy stiff-arms the lay-up? Worst. case. scenario.

But if the guy can jump up and slam it down uncontested, I would always take the points.

You could also bonk a dunk (as Olek did last game I believe?)

In my eyes you take the sure 2 and put them up 5. Much greater chance of a possible turnover and a 3 to tie vs missing a standard layup without contention.

[MulletMan]

Oh oh!!! Throatybeard and I used to talk about the Bill James method of calculating a safe lead all the time!! The rules:

* Take the number of points one team is ahead.
* Subtract three.
* Add a half-point if the team that is ahead has the ball, and subtract a half-point if the other team has the ball. (Numbers less than zero become zero.)
* Square that.
* If the result is greater than the number of seconds left in the game, the lead is safe.

OK... so let's do it here assuming that there were, what, 13 seconds left on the clock when he got the ball? That also meant that he had possesion for the calculation.

3 point lead with 13 seconds when he caught the ball under the hoop:
(3-3+.5)^2=0.25 seconds... a three point lead is never safe!

5 point lead with 13 seconds left after he hits a lay up, but then Zona has the ball:
(5-3-.5)^2=2.25 seconds... this means a 5 point lead is 17% safe. Not all that great.

Continue with scenarios... I have to go to a meeting. :D

(Post-script... one of the few games in the past 50 years or so that doesn't fit into this formula is one invovling our beloved Blue Devils... can you figure out which game it is?)

[airowe]

The Miracle Minute, of course.

[roywhite]

(Post-script... one of the few games in the past 50 years or so that doesn't fit into this formula is one invovling our beloved Blue Devils... can you figure out which game it is?)

That would have to be the 1974 Duke-UNC-8 points-17 seconds-Peahead Davis lucky bank shot- game.

One thing I give thanks for at this holiday (a minor one in the scheme of things) is that Billy Packer is no longer broadcasting and reminding us of that game, which he would do several times a year.

[juise]

The Miracle Minute, of course.

Or "Gone in 54 Seconds" as I remember it being called at the time, a dated move reference. :)

Edit: (10-3-.5)^2 = 42.25 < 54... so that lead was not safe.

[Duvall]

(Post-script... one of the few games in the past 50 years or so that doesn't fit into this formula is one invovling our beloved Blue Devils... can you figure out which game it is?)

I thought we weren't supposed to mention that team.

I need to find the scorebook from the 1995 game in Cameron. I think that one qualifies as well - UNC was up by 8 with about 20 seconds left in the first overtime.

[MulletMan]

That would have to be the 1974 Duke-UNC-8 points-17 seconds-Peahead Davis lucky bank shot- game.

One thing I give thanks for at this holiday (a minor one in the scheme of things) is that Billy Packer is no longer broadcasting and reminding us of that game, which he would do several times a year.

And we have a winner!

[Bob Green]

And the quickness prevailed. Zags win by 15.

This will be a team for Duke to deal with in 3 weeks at the Garden. They are big and quick and they play pretty good defense. Bouldin looks like AA material to me. I think our bigs are more mobile than theirs, but they are not to be dismissed.

It was nice to watch two future Duke opponents go at it yesterday. I wasn't impressed with Wisconsin and expect Duke will handle them in Madison during the Challenge. We have another opportunity to watch Wisconsin against Maryland as that game is about to tip in Maui. Maryland was equally unimpressive yesterday.

[ivydevil]

And Michigan State goes does to Florida 77-74.

[Newton_14]

I watched the last 6 minutes of the FSU/Iona game last night and it was brutal. FSU played absolutely terrible during that time. Multiple turnovers, wild shots, wilder passes. Iona was not much better yet it was a tie game at something like 47 all with like 3 minutes to go.

Fortunately for FSU, Iona made more mistakes than they did in the last 3 minutes and the Noles won by a handful.

This Big Ten match up could get really ugly for the ACC unless the Big Ten is somehow worse...

[ivydevil]

And Michigan State goes does to Florida 77-74.

"does" was supposed to be "down", btw...

[dukelifer]

And Michigan State goes does to Florida 77-74.
MSU outshot them 52% to 41%, out rebounded them by 16 and had 6 more assists- and lost even with Boynton going 2-12 and 1-9 from three. Florida killed them from the line.

[roywhite]

UCLA plays in 7th place game in 76 tournament...and loses.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2009/11/ucla-basketball-halftime-report-3.html

Tough stretch for the Bruins with losses to Portland (by 32), Butler, and now Long Beach State.

[BlueintheFace]

Clemson took down Butler today and Florida State held off Marquette. Good day for the ACC.

[chrisheery]

Yeah, but Carolina almost lost to Nevada. Seriously? Nevada? And they only had 8 turnovers. That's not very good.

[HCheek37]

Nevada has a couple guys that can really play....had the lead a couple times in the last 10 minutes but UNC finished well. Ole Roy almost fainted / re-injured his shoulder during one moment of excitement.

[Newton_14]

Clemson took down Butler today and Florida State held off Marquette. Good day for the ACC.

That is actually wild to me. The FSU win I mean. I watched a good bit of the Marquette/Michigan game and Marquette looked really good beating what I feel is a solid Michigan team. Based on seeing some of the FSU/Iona game I would have picked Marquette to easily take FSU down.

That is the beauty of college basketball I guess. You sometimes never know what to expect. Especially when teams ranked say 12th in the country to like 40th in the country play each other. Almost anything can happen in those games.

Also, I only saw the last minute and a half of the UNC-CH/Nevada game but I assume they struggled again tonight? Did Nevada have a pretty decent team, or did UNC-CH not look good again?

[HCheek37]

Also, I only saw the last minute and a half of the UNC-CH/Nevada game but I assume they struggled again tonight? Did Nevada have a pretty decent team, or did UNC-CH not look good again?

a little bit of both....UNC was up 9 at half and seemed to have it in control.

Good signs for UNC: Larry Drew had a good game and hit a couple 3's which is a big key to them this year

Bad signs for UNC: 12-24 from the free throw line and ginyard shot pretty poorly (4-11 from the floor and 1-4 from the line)

[roywhite]

UCLA plays in 7th place game in 76 tournament...and loses.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2009/11/ucla-basketball-halftime-report-3.html

Tough stretch for the Bruins with losses to Portland (by 32), Butler, and now Long Beach State.

Need to correct my own post....that was "only" a 27-point loss by the UCLA Bruins to the Portland Pilots.