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View Full Version : Moss?!?! For a 4th rounder?!?!?



JasonEvans
04-30-2007, 08:43 AM
Good move or bad?

I have a hard time seeing this working out badly for New England. Heck, if Moss is a distraction and getting into trouble they just cut him and all they are out is a 4th round draft pick that probably would not have been a major impact on the team anyway. I mean, they even got Moss with a favorable salary situation making it possible to cut him if things go sour.

The upside is --well-- scary good. Moss' ability to stretch the field and make heroic catches combined with Brady's passing and decision making. WOW!!

Also worth noting, the Pats have a good history of dealing with troubled players and making them toe the line. Look at what kind of reputation Corey Dillon had and how he has been since arriving in New England.

I have to wonder if Oakland offered Moss to other teams. I mean, was there no one willing to give up more than a mid-4th rounder for Randy? You mean no one would give up a mid-3rd for him? 6 of the first 17 picks of the 3rd round were no-name small college wide recievers. You mean non of these teams were willing to part with one of those picks to get Randy Moss?!?!?

-Jason "the great franchases are the ones who dare to be great -- a lot of teams are going to regret letting New England make this move" Evans

CMS2478
04-30-2007, 08:45 AM
Good move or bad?

I have a hard time seeing this working out badly for New England. Heck, if Moss is a distraction and getting into trouble they just cut him and all they are out is a 4th round draft pick that probably would not have been a major impact on the team anyway. I mean, they even got Moss with a favorable salary situation making it possible to cut him if things go sour.

The upside is --well-- scary good. Moss' ability to stretch the field and make heroic catches combined with Brady's passing and decision making. WOW!!

Also worth noting, the Pats have a good history of dealing with troubled players and making them toe the line. Look at what kind of reputation Corey Dillon had and how he has been since arriving in New England.

I have to wonder if Oakland offered Moss to other teams. I mean, was there no one willing to give up more than a mid-4th rounder for Randy? You mean no one would give up a mid-3rd for him? 6 of the first 17 picks of the 3rd round were no-name small college wide recievers. You mean non of these teams were willing to part with one of those picks to get Randy Moss?!?!?

-Jason "the great franchases are the ones who dare to be great -- a lot of teams are going to regret letting New England make this move" Evans

I am going to try and draft Brady in my fantasy league this year, that is for sure. He was good last year and now New England has given him some people to throw to ...............lookout!!!

bluebear
04-30-2007, 09:38 AM
The Pats have made some major moves this off-season...filling every hole that they had last season. I think this will be the strongest team overall that they've had during their run...

I agree with Jason that it is a relatively risk-free move for them in signing Moss. They gave up next to nothing..and will simply cut him if he starts to act up. They had already greatly improved their WRs (Stallworth and Welker) and can afford to take a flier on Moss...

Bostondevil
04-30-2007, 10:55 AM
It's good to be a Boston sports fan.

I see The Sporting News naming Boston the best sports town again this year. If it weren't for the Sox, I'd be chomping at the bit for football season. But there are the Sox 16-8, 5 of 6 from the Yankees.

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! Life is good.

(As long as I don't think about VCU.)

bluebear
04-30-2007, 11:12 AM
It's good to be a Boston sports fan.

I see The Sporting News naming Boston the best sports town again this year. If it weren't for the Sox, I'd be chomping at the bit for football season. But there are the Sox 16-8, 5 of 6 from the Yankees.

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! Life is good.

(As long as I don't think about VCU.)

I couldn't agree more...The Celts and Bruins are terrible but the Sox, Pats, and Duke are more than enough to fill-up the year..

tombrady
05-01-2007, 11:44 AM
Good move or bad?

I have a hard time seeing this working out badly for New England. Heck, if Moss is a distraction and getting into trouble they just cut him and all they are out is a 4th round draft pick that probably would not have been a major impact on the team anyway. I mean, they even got Moss with a favorable salary situation making it possible to cut him if things go sour.

The upside is --well-- scary good. Moss' ability to stretch the field and make heroic catches combined with Brady's passing and decision making. WOW!!

Also worth noting, the Pats have a good history of dealing with troubled players and making them toe the line. Look at what kind of reputation Corey Dillon had and how he has been since arriving in New England.

I have to wonder if Oakland offered Moss to other teams. I mean, was there no one willing to give up more than a mid-4th rounder for Randy? You mean no one would give up a mid-3rd for him? 6 of the first 17 picks of the 3rd round were no-name small college wide recievers. You mean non of these teams were willing to part with one of those picks to get Randy Moss?!?!?

-Jason "the great franchases are the ones who dare to be great -- a lot of teams are going to regret letting New England make this move" Evans

Moss said the Patriots were the only team he would restructure his contract for. The Raiders were going to cut him anyway before the season started, so they might as well get something back for him, and no team would take him with his former contract. So he restructured his contract for the Patriots, and Patriots only. Also, Tom Brady restructured his contract to clear some cap room for Moss.

He wants to win a super bowl before he retires, and sees this as the best place to do it. I'd have to agree with him, especially after the Patriots additions this off season. They've got 3-5 more years of elite Tom Brady left, and they want to win a couple more Super Bowls. 5 super bowls is realistic by the time my boy TB retires.

tecumseh
05-01-2007, 06:05 PM
Who knows what Moss really means. The question is that Moss salary is HUGE for a player who is not performing. There were only two teams New England and Green Bay that were interested in Moss.

Most teams felt like next year will be the tenth year in his career and Randy Moss is no Jerry Rice in his dedication to offseason training and that he has lost a step he is not the freakish athlete he was 6 yrs ago. New England has had cap money to burn so why not. It's funny New England got too cheap and let too many athletes go and no they woke up. I still think the Chargers have the best roster talent wise.

Moss does not play defense (neither does Brady) and that second half against the Colts was the worst performance ever in a major game by a defense what did they give up 10yds a play and bizillion yds for the half.

tombrady
05-02-2007, 08:32 AM
Who knows what Moss really means. The question is that Moss salary is HUGE for a player who is not performing. There were only two teams New England and Green Bay that were interested in Moss.

Most teams felt like next year will be the tenth year in his career and Randy Moss is no Jerry Rice in his dedication to offseason training and that he has lost a step he is not the freakish athlete he was 6 yrs ago. New England has had cap money to burn so why not. It's funny New England got too cheap and let too many athletes go and no they woke up. I still think the Chargers have the best roster talent wise.

Moss does not play defense (neither does Brady) and that second half against the Colts was the worst performance ever in a major game by a defense what did they give up 10yds a play and bizillion yds for the half.

trying to make sense of this incoherent mess of nonsense...

its been widely reported that moss has rededicated himself this offseason in terms of his conditioning, realizing his legacy depends on winning a Super Bowl. There were even reports of him running a 4.29 40. All heresy, of course, but certainly not the worst news.

New England got too cheap? Really? So I guess making the playoffs the last 2 years, and making it to the AFC Championship this past year was some huge failure -- because they were "too cheap." Their defense sucked because of injuries and not having enough players to rotate in -- thus, by the end of the game, they were tired and couldn't cover players. They allowed the 2nd FEWEST POINTS IN THE AFC last year, behind only the Ravens, and nearly 8 pts less than Indy. Defense was not this team's problem last year, and hasn't been during this run. The receiving corps of the Pats was pathetically bad by the end of the season -- Brady had no options. With Stallworth and Moss and Welker replacing the dredge that was there last year, watch for Brady to have MVP-type numbers.

The patriots beat the chargers in the playoffs last year. As the patriots (and colts the past 5 years) have shown, the team with the most "talent" doesn't always win.

Anyone who spins this poorly for the Patriots clearly has a favorite team in the AFC that the Patriots have whupped on the last 5 years. The patriots have made it clear to moss the first indiscretion, he will be cut. CUT. and if this happens before the season starts, the patriots will owe him nothing. Even if it is mid season, the money will be minimal. They are basically getting a risk-free trial of a player that has the potential (and has shown the ability in the past) to be one of the top human beings on the planet at catching a football. You take that chance.

tecumseh
05-02-2007, 11:14 AM
The Pats of 2006 were a far cry from some of the Super Bowl teams. Their record was deceptively good because they had an easier schedule. The AFC East is not the AFC West and then they were lined up against some pretty mediocre NFC teams. Against good teams they did not have a winning record and against weak teams they did not dominate like they have in the past.

The game against the Chargers they were very lucky to win. The Chargers played like a team in the playoffs for the first time and the Pats played like seasoned veterans but the Pats got lucky big time remember that fumble on a 4th down interception. The Pats were a step slower than San Diego all day. Then in AFC title game they got lit up, sure they had some injuries but that is part of football. The Colts rang up 38 second half points going the full length of the field. Does any Pats fan think the Super Bowl teams could have collapsed from a 21-3 start?

The Pats have fallen a lot and that is why the front office has been so active in the off season. You are right I am not a Pats fan but I respect them and used to fear them that fear is gone...it may return but the Chargers are my Super Bowl pick. Rivers should improve a lot as this is really his second year he is going into Brady won't improve he is at the top of his game. Then look at LT, Antonio Gates, Merriman this is a heck of a team.

tombrady
05-02-2007, 11:48 AM
The Pats of 2006 were a far cry from some of the Super Bowl teams. Their record was deceptively good because they had an easier schedule. The AFC East is not the AFC West and then they were lined up against some pretty mediocre NFC teams. Against good teams they did not have a winning record and against weak teams they did not dominate like they have in the past.

The game against the Chargers they were very lucky to win. The Chargers played like a team in the playoffs for the first time and the Pats played like seasoned veterans but the Pats got lucky big time remember that fumble on a 4th down interception. The Pats were a step slower than San Diego all day. Then in AFC title game they got lit up, sure they had some injuries but that is part of football. The Colts rang up 38 second half points going the full length of the field. Does any Pats fan think the Super Bowl teams could have collapsed from a 21-3 start?

The Pats have fallen a lot and that is why the front office has been so active in the off season. You are right I am not a Pats fan but I respect them and used to fear them that fear is gone...it may return but the Chargers are my Super Bowl pick. Rivers should improve a lot as this is really his second year he is going into Brady won't improve he is at the top of his game. Then look at LT, Antonio Gates, Merriman this is a heck of a team.

I guess I don't understand this "fallen a lot" business. They won a super bowl, missed the playoffs, won 2 more super bowls, then made the playoffs 2 straight years, last year coming within a single possession of making the super bowl again. You yourself state what a volatile thing the playoffs are, since you still contend the Chargers were a better team (whatever that means).

There's a reason the Patriots won that game -- they were seasoned. You discount this entire facet, as if the playoffs are run through a computer simulation.

The last 7 weeks of the season, the Colts went 3-4. Three and Four, almost the entire second half of the season. Yet they won the super bowl. Do any Colts fans think that Super Bowl teams could have gone 3-4 the last half of the season? I mean hell, they lost to the texans.

I all ready gave you the reason the Patriots tired the 2nd half of that game, that defense is not their problem, and that for the first time their offense is absolutely terrifying.

"Rivers should improve a lot as this is really his second year he is going into Brady won't improve he is at the top of his game. "

Or, NFL coordinators will have a full off season to dissect River's game and figure him out, while Brady is a known commodity, but now with the added offensive weapons. I'll bet it all Brady will have a better improvement this year than Rivers -- even though you say he's "at the top of his game." He might be, but the team was not. And now it is.

captmojo
05-02-2007, 11:58 AM
Don't let him go on ESPN and say things like "We need Brady Quinn". Things like dissin' your quarterback can get you fired fast.

bluebear
05-02-2007, 12:23 PM
The Pats of 2006 were a far cry from some of the Super Bowl teams. Their record was deceptively good because they had an easier schedule. The AFC East is not the AFC West and then they were lined up against some pretty mediocre NFC teams. Against good teams they did not have a winning record and against weak teams they did not dominate like they have in the past.

The game against the Chargers they were very lucky to win. The Chargers played like a team in the playoffs for the first time and the Pats played like seasoned veterans but the Pats got lucky big time remember that fumble on a 4th down interception. The Pats were a step slower than San Diego all day. Then in AFC title game they got lit up, sure they had some injuries but that is part of football. The Colts rang up 38 second half points going the full length of the field. Does any Pats fan think the Super Bowl teams could have collapsed from a 21-3 start?

The Pats have fallen a lot and that is why the front office has been so active in the off season. You are right I am not a Pats fan but I respect them and used to fear them that fear is gone...it may return but the Chargers are my Super Bowl pick. Rivers should improve a lot as this is really his second year he is going into Brady won't improve he is at the top of his game. Then look at LT, Antonio Gates, Merriman this is a heck of a team.

The Pats were a play from making the Super Bowl and most likely winning it..no doubt they weren't as good as in past years but they weren't as overrated as you imply. They have addressed many of holes that they had last season including their secondary and LBs...More importantly, they have as good an offensive on paper as any other team. Brady will be much better this year (could have his best season)...look back at who he was throwing to in those Super Bowls..The Chargers have a good team and could win it all but the Pats will be the clear favorites..

tecumseh
05-02-2007, 12:49 PM
"the Pats were a play away from the Super Bowl"
Yes that is true but deceptive don't discount that very improbable play on 4th down against the Chargers when if the Dback knocks the ball down instead of intercepting it the Chargers win. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say the Pats were one game away from losing in the second round.

All I am saying is the fall off has been much larger than Pats fans are willing to admit. The Pats went from a dominating team to a very good one. The best QB and head coach in football were able to paper over some real flaws on this team. BUT I am not the only one who thinks this why else was the front office so aggressive this off season, very uncharacteristicly so? The front office realized the Pats of 06 despite how far they went in the playoffs had some serious issues.

The biggest downside for the Pats in 07 is one I see every season. They are more dependent on one player than any other team in football, if Brady goes down they become average very fast.

bluebear
05-02-2007, 01:08 PM
The biggest downside for the Pats in 07 is one I see every season. They are more dependent on one player than any other team in football, if Brady goes down they become average very fast.

I'm not arguing that they weren't as good last year..they weren't...But the team on paper this year is as good if not better than any other team they have had during their run.

tecumseh
05-02-2007, 01:28 PM
Not so sure Harrison at his prime was perhaps the best safety in football and really anchored the secondary. Willie McGinnis was a real play maker. Corey Dillon in his prime was an elite running back.

I still like the Chargers, they have a freak difference maker on D in Merriweather and freak on offense in LT no make that two freaks with Gates. And Mr. "Tom Brady" stats are not performance, Brady will have better stats but he will not play the position much better than 06, Rivers on the other hand should improve a bunch in the normal progression of a pro QB.

If it makes you feel better I thought the Pats were the better team over Denver in 05-06 playoffs, but Denver does have that difference maker Champ.

bluebear
05-02-2007, 02:25 PM
Not so sure Harrison at his prime was perhaps the best safety in football and really anchored the secondary. Willie McGinnis was a real play maker. Corey Dillon in his prime was an elite running back.

I still like the Chargers, they have a freak difference maker on D in Merriweather and freak on offense in LT no make that two freaks with Gates. And Mr. "Tom Brady" stats are not performance, Brady will have better stats but he will not play the position much better than 06, Rivers on the other hand should improve a bunch in the normal progression of a pro QB.

If it makes you feel better I thought the Pats were the better team over Denver in 05-06 playoffs, but Denver does have that difference maker Champ.

We could go on and on like this but it's probably safe to say we won't agree...we'll see in the fall... While they played great, I'm not sure that either Harrison or McGinnis were in their "prime" 3 years ago..they were older players who helped set the tone..Don't forget that Harrison was injured for part of the time..Seymour, Thomas, Wilfork, and Samuel are All Pro type players on defensive...the cupboard is not exactly bare..
As for Brady, I don't understand your point..Brady with better stats will most likely mean more wins for the Patriots..He may not throw the ball any better or make better decisions relative to last year but he will be able to perform better because of the compliment of players around him..

tecumseh
05-02-2007, 04:21 PM
I am just saying there will be no upgrade at the QB position for the Pats while one would expect an upgrade at that position for the Chargers. He will be a more effective player with better players around him but I give an edge here to the Chargers they should given the normal progression of things see significantly better play at this position.

Harrison was great until that injury against the Steelers