Dexter Strickland Speaks His Mind

[airowe]

Unbelievable how much these guys have bought into the anti-Duke hype machine. First Ginyard, now Strickland.

I hope Duke players never conduct themselves like this in a public interview but I also hope they have just as much hate towards Carolina and their system as Roy's players seem to (Hello Marcus Ginyard.)

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/11/18/north-carolinas-loaded-schedule-strickland-talks-irving-barnes/


He added: “I think it’s a good pick for him I just hope that that system doesn’t change who he is as a player. He’s a good scorer looking to score and I know Coach K is going to want to run the program and make him fit into the system. I told him to just to stay on top of your game and just focus and have a good time at Duke.”

Seriously? K is not flexible with his system?!? There is a very serious propaganda machine out there against Duke and Coach K and I think it's really starting to take hold.

[SMO]

Seriously? K is not flexible with his system?!? There is a very serious propaganda machine out there against Duke and Coach K and I think it's really starting to take hold.

What a silly implication. Every coach has a system. Ask LeBron, Kobe, DWade and company how the system worked out for them.

[DukieTiger]

Wow I'm amazed at the scouting/research Dex Strickland has done on Duke, to know Coach K's tendencies last night.

Seriously, that line sounds like it was hand-fed to him from somewhere. Hmm.......

[lifelongdevil]

take off the dark blue glasses. nolan has said the same thing numerous times.

[JaMarcus Russell]

take off the dark blue glasses. nolan has said the same thing numerous times.

I haven't seen the context of his quote, but it's as clear as can be that one of Coach K's biggest strengths is not fitting square pegs into a round hole. Last year's time had lots of isolation opportunities for Henderson because of his ability to take it into the lane. The Redick-Williams teams took advantage of the talent on the squad and didn't really resemble the late '90s teams with J-Will, Battier, and Boozer that ran the court much more. And this year's team is a far cry from last year's team on both sides of the ball, with a zone defense and lots of ball movement on offense.

I also got a kick out of the first reader comment on Zagsblog because it is entirely true.

[6th Man]

The whole everyone against Duke thing pi$$es me off. I mean does anyone watch Duke play other than Duke fans? Jason Williams could do whatever he wanted. Redick had the green light to gun 3's. Has Duke ever looked limited on what they run on offense? Heck half the time I want to see more sets and less one on one. Almost want to see more of a system sometimes. I'm sure Singler, Scheyer, and Smith feel "limited" by the system. Geeze...

It's like everyone wants to be on the bandwagon and beat up Duke for things that aren't even true. The anti-Duke world has given Duke a stigma that is complete bull based on the way they really play.

We'll see who is happier next year when Kyrie is running the show doing as he pleases and Dexter is watching from the pine. Sorry, my hatred for UNC runs deep. Tired of all their crap. I'm sure Roy is filling recruits minds with a bunch of crap. Here's hoping Duke hands UNC their I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. this year!

[ChicagoCrazy84]

That was a GREAT comment by that reader. Honestly Dex, worry about your own situation there at NC, especially when you're going to get schooled by him and Nolan next year. Kyrie is going to be incredible at Duke, with whatever "system" they may have going.

[DukieInKansas]

This was my favorite part from the article:

Strickland on Barnes’ decision to announce for North Carolina via Skype on ESPNU: “Honestly, everybody was surprised. Coach Williams was surprised himself. [Barnes] did a good job of keeping on a straight face and not letting anybody think he was going here or think he was going to another school.

“I was surpsried. When he called us on the Skype I was really surprised and I’m happy also.”

Really? Did all 6 teams gather in the locker rooms waiting on the off chance Barnes picked them and called on skype? I find that hard to believe.

Please tell me that Coach K and the Duke team weren't sitting around waiting for a skype call.

[oldnavy]

I haven't seen the context of his quote, but it's as clear as can be that one of Coach K's biggest strengths is not fitting square pegs into a round hole. Last year's time had lots of isolation opportunities for Henderson because of his ability to take it into the lane. The Redick-Williams teams took advantage of the talent on the squad and didn't really resemble the late '90s teams with J-Will, Battier, and Boozer that ran the court much more. And this year's team is a far cry from last year's team on both sides of the ball, with a zone defense and lots of ball movement on offense.

I also got a kick out of the first reader comment on Zagsblog because it is entirely true.

So I guess Roy doesn't have a "system"? Let's see if he thinks the same thing next year when he is riding the pine because of the recruits Ol's Roy is bring in to run his "free lance, just be yourself, we are all indivduals and equally important" non-system...

[airowe]

The whole everyone against Duke thing pi$$es me off. I mean does anyone watch Duke play other than Duke fans? Jason Williams could do whatever he wanted. Redick had the green light to gun 3's. Has Duke ever looked limited on what they run on offense? Heck half the time I want to see more sets and less one on one. Almost want to see more of a system sometimes. I'm sure Singler, Scheyer, and Smith feel "limited" by the system. Geeze...

It's like everyone wants to be on the bandwagon and beat up Duke for things that aren't even true. The anti-Duke world has given Duke a stigma that is complete bull based on the way they really play.

We'll see who is happier next year when Kyrie is running the show doing as he pleases and Dexter is watching from the pine. Sorry, my hatred for UNC runs deep. Tired of all their crap. I'm sure Roy is filling recruits minds with a bunch of crap. Here's hoping Duke hands UNC their I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. this year!

No need to apologize for that. I've never hated that school or program more than I do right now. :mad::mad::mad:

[6th Man]

Really? Did all 6 teams gather in the locker rooms waiting on the off chance Barnes picked them and called on skype? I find that hard to believe.

Please tell me that Coach K and the Duke team weren't sitting around waiting for a skype call.

That's another thing UNC fans will tell you. Roy didn't even know until the Skye.

Oh yeah...OK...whatever. The whole UNC and Roy "aw shucks, let's drink a Coke" bit is so phoney I want to puke.

[DukieTiger]

take off the dark blue glasses. nolan has said the same thing numerous times.

Link?

[BlueintheFace]

take off the dark blue glasses. nolan has said the same thing numerous times.

uhhhhh???

[DukieInKansas]

That's another thing UNC fans will tell you. Roy didn't even know until the Skye.

Oh yeah...OK...whatever. The whole UNC and Roy "aw shucks, let's drink a Coke" bit is so phoney I want to puke.

That's why there were reports that Roy was "giddy" and would be on ESPN at 6pm. Because he didn't know what decision HB was going to make.

I have this bridge for sale if anyone is interested. :D

[wolfpackdevil]

Does anybody remember that Duke/UNC is a RIVALRY!!!!!!!!!!!

Duke/Carolina players and fans have become too nice to each other. This is the biggest rivalry in college basketball.

Players should be talking trash about your biggest rival.

[Turtleboy]

Link?I'll second that request.

[airowe]

Does anybody remember that Duke/UNC is a RIVALRY!!!!!!!!!!!

Duke/Carolina players and fans have become too nice to each other. This is the biggest rivalry in college basketball.

Players should be talking trash about your biggest rival.

I agree, but not spewing unfounded garbage that has no basis in reality in a public interview.

Some guys have class, some guys skip it.

[roywhite]

Does anybody remember that Duke/UNC is a RIVALRY!!!!!!!!!!!

Duke/Carolina players and fans have become too nice to each other. This is the biggest rivalry in college basketball.

Players should be talking trash about your biggest rival.

It's always a rivalry, but there are times when the players (and coaches) are somewhat cordial, and times when there is a palpable dislike between the participants. I have a feeling we're heading toward the second status.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Who really cares what Dexter Strickland says about anything?

[PSurprise]

It's always a rivalry, but there are times when the players (and coaches) are somewhat cordial, and times when there is a palpable dislike between the participants. I have a feeling we're heading toward the second status.

Haha. That got me as kind of funny.
The new definition of rivalry: "A palpable dislike between the participants"

[BlueintheFace]

Does anybody remember that Duke/UNC is a RIVALRY!!!!!!!!!!!

Duke/Carolina players and fans have become too nice to each other. This is the biggest rivalry in college basketball.

Players should be talking trash about your biggest rival.

I agree wholeheartedly. This rivalry has gotten too hush hush and PC. The only reason I don't like this quote is because it seems to be a remnant from his recruitment (implying dirty/negative tactics) as I doubt that Roy talks much about K's system months away from the first game.

Also, I hate to admit it, but I think Duke has been especially soft on this point. People are going to hate Duke no matter what so they might as well give people a reason. Get a little nasty... talk a little trash on Carolina. This rivalry used to be about the players, coaches, and fans... these days it seems like it is a bit too much about the fans.

Ginyard gets a bit of my respect for that, though I still hope Plumlee dunks all over him (either one would be fine). I know for a fact that KS is not a big fan and it wouldn't bother me one bit to hear about it.

[cbnaylor]

I agree wholeheartedly. This rivalry has gotten too hush hush and PC. The only reason I don't like this quote is because it seems to be a remnant from his recruitment (implying dirty/negative tactics) as I doubt that Roy talks much about K's system months away from the first game.

Also, I hate to admit it, but I think Duke has been especially soft on this point. People are going to hate Duke no matter what so they might as well give people a reason. Get a little nasty... talk a little trash on Carolina. This rivalry used to be about the players, coaches, and fans... these days it seems like it is a bit too much about the fans.

Ginyard gets a bit of my respect for that, though I still hope Plumlee dunks all over him (either one would be fine). I know for a fact that KS is not a big fan and it wouldn't bother me one bit to hear about it.

I so agree with this statement. I know that I have been nice to my Carolina foes as of late but they continue to run their mouths. Maybe it's time once again to give them something to hate about. WE have been to nice as of late. If they already hate Duke.....well let's really give them something to hate about. How many times do you hear....well go figure Duke is playing in New York again. Give me a break....or well you won the ACC CHAMPIONSHIP TOURNEY, but we won the regular season...Roy doesn't care about the acc tourney.....

[SMO]

take off the dark blue glasses. nolan has said the same thing numerous times.

As I recall, Nolan's sentiments were that guys need to play their own game within the system. Have a quote handy?

[jesus_hurley]

Unbelievable how much these guys have bought into the anti-Duke hype machine. First Ginyard, now Strickland.

I hope Duke players never conduct themselves like this in a public interview but I also hope they have just as much hate towards Carolina and their system as Roy's players seem to (Hello Marcus Ginyard.)

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/11/18/north-carolinas-loaded-schedule-strickland-talks-irving-barnes/



Seriously? K is not flexible with his system?!? There is a very serious propaganda machine out there against Duke and Coach K and I think it's really starting to take hold.

One of the things that amuses me about this is that apparently Dex must not fit into Ol' Roy's system since he's been recruited over for 2 consecutive classes. End of the bench meet Dexter Strickland.....

[Billy Dat]

Crazy #1: War's over, man. Huckleberry Hound dropped the big one.
Crazy #2: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Crazy #3: [whispering] Germans?
Crazy #4: Forget it, he's rolling.
Crazy #2: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough... [thinks hard] the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go! [runs out, alone; then returns] What the *** happened to the Duke I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Crazy #2, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my *** from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. ROY, he's a dead man! Ginyard, dead! Strickland -
Crazy #5: Dead! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F!

[eightyearoldsdude]

help a clueless hole out: what is the 9F reference?

[juise]

help a clueless hole out: what is the 9F reference?

DBR Handy Pocket Reference (http://www.duke.edu/~bct1/images/DBRHPR7.1asPDF.pdf).

[BlueintheFace]

DBR Handy Pocket Reference (http://www.duke.edu/~bct1/images/DBRHPR7.1asPDF.pdf).

What do you think you are doing? (shaking head)

[soccerstud2210]

take off the dark blue glasses. nolan has said the same thing numerous times.

did i miss a link to this somewhere? or was this sarcasm?

[juise]

What do you think you are doing? (shaking head)

Sharing a stickied link... and indirectly telling him that his favorite team can go to... well, you know. :)

[oldnavy]

I for one do not want the tarholes to like us or be nice to us. If they like us, then they don't fear us. Maybe Dexter is getting a little nervous about this year? Huhh?

[flyingdutchdevil]

I for one do not want the tarholes to like us or be nice to us. If they like us, then they don't fear us. Maybe Dexter is getting a little nervous about this year? Huhh?

I second that. I want the holes to fear us, hate us, and respect us. Sure, smiles and saying nice things make people feel happy in this stomach, but come on!! This is THE rivalry in college basketball. If I were ever to agree with a tarhole on anything, it would be this.

[airowe]

Let's Go Buckeyes!

[whereinthehellami]

Strick hasn't exactly lit it up as a powder blue minion. With Bullock coming in he might want to get a second opinion regarding his future. Maybe he should man up and talk to a Pepsi guy next time.

[jesus_hurley]

Strick hasn't exactly lit it up as a powder blue minion. With Bullock coming in he might want to get a second opinion regarding his future. Maybe he should man up and talk to a Pepsi guy next time.

Plus PJ coming in after Bullock....

[BlueintheFace]

Sharing a stickied link... and indirectly telling him that his favorite team can go to... well, you know. :)

I feel like you just gave away the nuclear launch codes. Oh well...;)

[AnimalFriendly]

Strick hasn't exactly lit it up as a powder blue minion. With Bullock coming in he might want to get a second opinion regarding his future. Maybe he should man up and talk to a Pepsi guy next time.

He's played in exactly three games thus far. Let's give him a little more time, please, before relegating him to the end of the bench. Anyway, his stats while not earthshattering aren't terrible thus far either.

[Carolina_Blue]

Are you guys seriously that upset about those comments? I mean that is part of recruiting! Telling the player that his game fits best into what your trying to do. You can say that coach K takes a morale high road on that type of thing if you want to but we both know that its not true.....I think that Roy's brand is selling better than Coach K's brand right now. I know I will be crucified on this board for this but I also think Coach K has lost some of the luster he had in the 90's. These comments are quite mild for this rivalry. I will say this I do think Roy has an easier time recruiting players...(Brand Name, Jordan sponsorship, Tradition, History)

[Tim1515]

Are you guys seriously that upset about those comments? I mean that is part of recruiting! Telling the player that his game fits best into what your trying to do. You can say that coach K takes a morale high road on that type of thing if you want to but we both know that its not true.....I think that Roy's brand is selling better than Coach K's brand right now. I know I will be crucified on this board for this but I also think Coach K has lost some of the luster he had in the 90's. These comments are quite mild for this rivalry. I will say this I do think Roy has an easier time recruiting players...(Brand Name, Jordan sponsorship, Tradition, History)

Duke seems to have a lot of talent this year and next...winning may go a long way to changing the perception of Duke

[airowe]

Yes, we are upset about these comments and your claim that these comments are mild for this rivalry is not correct. This is not reflective of the kind of public attitude Duke players have, so don't bring up that this stuff happens on both sides of the rivalry. If these comments had come directly from roy their would have been a much bigger outcry as you don't see any coach negatively recruiting against another program, at least not publicly.

The fact that it came from a recently signed recruit makes it painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain to see that his head has been filled with this propaganda by someone whom he trusts, most likely one of his coaches.

I haven't even brought up the fact that what Strickland says is is patently untrue and if anything is more applicable to Coach Coppertone over in Hell with his inability to change his system based on the players he has. Do you really think this team should be running with the backcourt they have?

[Carolina_Blue]

Yes, we are upset about these comments and your claim that these comments are mild for this rivalry is not correct. This is not reflective of the kind of public attitude Duke players have, so don't bring up that this stuff happens on both sides of the rivalry. If these comments had come directly from roy their would have been a much bigger outcry as you don't see any coach negatively recruiting against another program, at least not publicly.

The fact that it came from a recently signed recruit makes it painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain to see that his head has been filled with this propaganda by someone whom he trusts, most likely one of his coaches.

I haven't even brought up the fact that what Strickland says is is patently untrue and if anything is more applicable to Coach Coppertone over in Hell with his inability to change his system based on the players he has. Do you really think this team should be running with the backcourt they have?
I remember Coach K telling Dean Smith to "go to Hell" ...attitude reflects leadership so your players public morale high ground means nothing to me....is it propaganda if its the truth? yes I absolutely believe UNC should be running even with the young backcourt. If you go back and look at Larry Drew's high school tapes he was very effective in the break...and Stickland and Mcdonald will eventually show that is their stregnth too. We will take our lumps this year while they learn the "Carolina Way"...its no accident that Roy recruited them ... because their style fits into the system....every coach has their system or their style of play. and as far as public perception goes I think Carolina is leading propaganda or not

[airowe]

K telling Dean Smith to Go to Hell and negatively recruiting against another program are two different things.

I should have left the last part out because it's a discussion for a different time.

How about we discuss this, do you reallty believe that K is less flexible with his system than roy?

[6th Man]

Are you guys seriously that upset about those comments? I mean that is part of recruiting! Telling the player that his game fits best into what your trying to do. You can say that coach K takes a morale high road on that type of thing if you want to but we both know that its not true.....I think that Roy's brand is selling better than Coach K's brand right now. I know I will be crucified on this board for this but I also think Coach K has lost some of the luster he had in the 90's. These comments are quite mild for this rivalry. I will say this I do think Roy has an easier time recruiting players...(Brand Name, Jordan sponsorship, Tradition, History)

It's not just necessarily one player's comments. I think people like to jump on the bandwagon of picking Duke apart for things I am puzzled by. Duke's system can limit you? Maybe I am misunderstanding what he means by "Duke's system". At Duke, players aren't restrained. I mean Dawkins hoisted 11 3 pointers the other night as a freshman guard off the bench. Do you think he feels restricted by a system? A guy like Irving should thrive at Duke. He's quick enough to play man. He will be able to shoot as much as he wants. I certainly hope he will drive to the basket as much as he wants. I have a feeling Roy fed Barnes the same bull. I said it in an earlier post. I almost think Duke is given too much freedom. They go one on one way too much. I also think Strickland needs to worry less about Duke and keep his comments limited to his own team. I realized he was asked the question about Irving, but it was a shot at Duke for things that don't even apply.

[JG Nothing]

I will say this I do think Roy has an easier time recruiting players...(Brand Name, Jordan sponsorship, Tradition, History)

Don't forget lower admission requirements...just saying.

[airowe]

Not just lowered admissions requirents, how about offering Barnes something no other student at Carolina could get, admission into Kenan-Flagler as a high school Senior (typically students apply for admission into K-F at the end of their So. Year) which is a clear NCAA violation and accepting all of Barnes' AP credits of which Duke only allows 2.

[DukieTiger]

I'm still confused... What is a morale high ground?

Also still waiting for a link to Nolan's comments.

[Carolina_Blue]

K telling Dean Smith to Go to Hell and negatively recruiting against another program are two different things.

I should have left the last part out because it's a discussion for a different time.

How about we discuss this, do you reallty believe that K is less flexible with his system than roy?

No sir I do not. I don't believe I have ever said that. Do I believe that Roy's system fits better into translating to NBA success where most top recruits true aspirations are? Absolutely. Negative recruiting is part of it behind closed doors or not.

[Carolina_Blue]

Don't forget lower admission requirements...just saying.

Yea I have heard that excuse before, but no amount of convincing will tell me that Corey Maggete and Elton Brand met the Duke admission requirements that other students face athletes or not

[Carolina_Blue]

I'm still confused... What is a morale high ground?

Also still waiting for a link to Nolan's comments.


The moral high ground, in ethical or political parlance, refers to the status of being respected for remaining moral, and adhering to and upholding a universally recognized standard of justice or goodness (see wikipedia) cant help you with Nolans comments I would be curious to read that myself so let me know if they ever come up with that link

[-bdbd]

Are you guys seriously that upset about those comments? I mean that is part of recruiting! Telling the player that his game fits best into what your trying to do. You can say that coach K takes a morale high road on that type of thing if you want to but we both know that its not true.....

Link? Proof? Evidence of ANY kind???
Yeah, that's the last resort of any nefarious character caught guilty of some activity - you sound like the Calipari minions in KY - "Well everybody else does it..." Well, NO, they don't.



I think that Roy's brand is selling better than Coach K's brand right now. I know I will be crucified on this board for this but I also think Coach K has lost some of the luster he had in the 90's. These comments are quite mild for this rivalry. I will say this I do think Roy has an easier time recruiting players...(Brand Name, Jordan sponsorship, Tradition, History)

If Roy's "brand" involves taking the 'low road' and essentially lying to recruits about another program - then you can HAVE that brand, please. Talking UP your own program and how a recruit fits into it is very different than trash-talking, disparaging, distorting or otherwise denegrating someone else's. Don't miss the distinction. Kinda sucks getting caught with a program consistently taking the low road in that area doesn't it CB???

Re. lost luster for K -- yeah, that picture of him wearing all of the Gold Medals in Beijing looked pretty luster-less. Not like he wasn't following a couple of UNC alums who failed miserably in running the national team to inglorious defeat and incessant backbiting... Every team has it's positives and neagtives to recruit with: For every MJ in the NBA there is a Christian Laettner (most successful college player of all time). Yeah, btw, MJ still 'tearing it up' in the NBA as a GM with his Tar-cats??? ;-) For every Dean Dome size/big-school/fanbase, there is an intimate and "best venue in CB" Cameron Indoor for a good-academics university. Bummer for us that Duke lacks tremendous tradition and history too. ROL! Point is, every program has positives and negatives. Just that some programs seem to take a very low road in how they deal with recruits, and dishonestly trashing other programs rather than stickiing to just talking UP their own. I'll take the high-road one, even if it means missing an occasional impressionable recruit...

:cool:

[Carolina_Blue]

If it makes the losses sting any less for you by all means believe that. I enjoyed your argument. My comments about K were about the college game..I thoroughly enjoyed him with the gold medals because he brought USA basketball back to where it should be....but you will be hard-pressed to make any valid argument to me about Roy Williams ethics...and comparing him to Calipari is beyond a stretch

[airowe]

The NBA players K has produced and the ones that roy has produced is yet another instance of the propaganda machine at work. Heck, K has produced more NBA players currently in the League than the entire pUNC program. They also earn more money than any other alumni group playing professionally.

Go get some stats and come back here with a reasonable argument.

[blueprofessor]

Yea I have heard that excuse before, but no amount of convincing will tell me that Corey Maggete and Elton Brand met the Duke admission requirements that other students face athletes or not

This misstatement begs a corrective response. Elton Brand had an SAT of 1250 which was 60 points higher than UNC's student body median of 1190 at that time.
Even now, Duke's median of 1423 is about 200 points higher than UNC's.
UNC even trails UVA and Wake Forest in median SAT and academic ranking, depite all that taxpayer money dumped into UNC. Georgia Tech, in academic rankings as one of the top 8 engineering schools in America, is equal , if not superior, to UNC.
Being 5th in the ACC...maybe there will be UNC rings issued for that as well!

Best regards to Duke fans---Blueprofessor:)

[Carolina_Blue]

The NBA players K has produced and the ones that roy has produced is yet another instance of the propaganda machine at work. Heck, K has produced more NBA players currently in the League than the entire pUNC program. They also earn more money than any other alumni group playing professionally.

Go get some stats and come back here with a reasonable argument.

It doesn’t take much brainpower to see that UCLA’s Ben Howland and UNC’s Roy Williams are likely to spend the next decade further dominating this list. Louisville and Kansas also stand to rise into the top five quickly with the players Rick Pitino and Bill Self are recruiting these days. Indiana, Duke, Kentucky – all have been trending downward, but how will the newish coaches at IU and UK change that, and will Coach K start recruiting studs again now that making the Sweet 16 is the norm at Duke? St. John’s and Maryland? Both are living on lost glory with no recent signs of improvement. And keep an eye on the sleeping giant Thad Matta is building at Ohio St. (currently at 25 total picks) – he could overtake the Terps with two more of his Thad Five-type classes.

Total draft picks are nice, but championships are won with first-round talent, and first-round talent tends to become first-round picks (just sayin’). So let’s slice the data a little further to see what schools produce the most first rounders (Table B).



http://rushthecourt.net/2008/07/29/nba-draft-picks-by-school-1949-2008/ t

[Owen Meany]

Yea I have heard that excuse before, but no amount of convincing will tell me that Corey Maggette and Elton Brand met the Duke admission requirements that other students face athletes or not

I'm curious why you singled out Maggette and Brand. I'm very confident that either would have been accepted into any basketball program in the nation. Maggette's finalists were Duke, Stanford, and Indiana (he was also recruited by unc). Brand was an excellent student, with an excellent SAT score, who did very well at a top private school (he went to school with Governor Pataki's daughter). So if you want to question the credentials of a Duke player, you might not want to choose 2 who likely were more qualified than 90+% of UNC's players.

So why exactly did you choose those two players? Both have been gone for 10 years. There must be some reason on your part for singling them out (other than facts of course).

[kong123]

K telling Dean Smith to Go to Hell and negatively recruiting against another program are two different things.

I should have left the last part out because it's a discussion for a different time.

How about we discuss this, do you reallty believe that K is less flexible with his system than roy?

I believe coaches recruit players to fit into their system. As of late, Dukes recruits haven't panned out exactly we have planned, so he has to adapt his offense to the teams best weapons. Roy has had better luck with his recruits. As far as defense goes, he seems set in his ways and I do not feel that being that stubborn is a positive thing. His reluctance to play zone when needed is a big flaw. He wants to run all the time and his "pressure" man to man feeds the offense. But, when your defense cannot stop dribble penetration, this becomes a problem.

K is no doubt a better defensive coach. Dean was also a great defensive coach. He would always change his defenses out of time outs and would usually get good results from that strategy. The holes are a lot easier to game plan for. Their defense is always the same. Find the flaws and dare them to stop you. They plan to outscore you, and lately they have done just that. If the heels learn to guard the ball better and the bigs block lots of shots, their defense could be scarey good. We simply do more by putting forth more effort.

[Billy Dat]

Brand was an excellent student, with an excellent SAT score, who did very well at a top private school (he went to school with Governor Pataki's daughter).

Elton was a fine student, but he went to Peekskill High School which is as public as public school gets and a pretty poor one at that. George Pataki is from Peekskill, and he went to Peekskill High School, but his kids never went there. I'll defend Elton to the end, but let's be accurate.

As for coaches slamming another coach's system during the recruiting process, I am sure it happens all the time...just like any sales situation. Some coaches will make it a core part of their pitch, others will stay away from it. I remember seeing an article that talked about exactly how Calipari specifically used a critique of Duke's system in his successful wooing of John Wall...and I thought he was smart to do so. I think we've got to take a "He's just not that into you" attitude with this stuff...if a recruit decides to go elsewhere..don't let the door hit you in the gluteus...as Norman Dale famously said, "I hope you will root for who we are, not who we are not".

[Carolina_Blue]

I'm curious why you singled out Maggette and Brand. I'm very confident that either would have been accepted into any basketball program in the nation. Maggette's finalists were Duke, Stanford, and Indiana (he was also recruited by unc). Brand was an excellent student, with an excellent SAT score, who did very well at a top private school (he went to school with Governor Pataki's daughter). So if you want to question the credentials of a Duke player, you might not want to choose 2 who likely were more qualified than 90+% of UNC's players.

So why exactly did you choose those two players? Both have been gone for 10 years. There must be some reason on your part for singling them out (other than facts of course).

maybe the fact that maggete took payments from Myron Piggie a man who went to federal prison for fraud...i have to question the intelligence of anyone that takes a couple thousand bucks (which should have compromised his amateur playing status) when they know they will make millions in the next years...admittedly I through elton brand because he was around the same recruiting timeline....Carolina does not thump our chests as an academic institution we are and forever will be a university for the people...but for you to think that your not getting players simply because of your high academic standards is flawed

[Carolina_Blue]

I believe coaches recruit players to fit into their system. As of late, Dukes recruits haven't panned out exactly we have planned, so he has to adapt his offense to the teams best weapons. Roy has had better luck with his recruits. As far as defense goes, he seems set in his ways and I do not feel that being that stubborn is a positive thing. His reluctance to play zone when needed is a big flaw. He wants to run all the time and his "pressure" man to man feeds the offense. But, when your defense cannot stop dribble penetration, this becomes a problem.

K is no doubt a better defensive coach. Dean was also a great defensive coach. He would always change his defenses out of time outs and would usually get good results from that strategy. The holes are a lot easier to game plan for. Their defense is always the same. Find the flaws and dare them to stop you. They plan to outscore you, and lately they have done just that. If the heels learn to guard the ball better and the bigs block lots of shots, their defense could be scarey good. We simply do more by putting forth more effort.


Roy's "stubborness" has been a very positive thing as far as we are concerned....3 final fours 2 championships in the last 5 years is no accident. PLAYERS win championships

[juise]

Indiana, Duke, Kentucky – all have been trending downward

Duke had more wins (total and conference) last year than Kentucky and Indiana put together. Is it really fair to lump Duke in with those two?



Total draft picks are nice, but championships are won with first-round talent, and first-round talent tends to become first-round picks (just sayin’). So let’s slice the data a little further to see what schools produce the most first rounders (Table B).

http://rushthecourt.net/2008/07/29/nba-draft-picks-by-school-1949-2008/ t


That's an impressive table... that dates back to the 1950's. Are you really making the argument about the talent in Roy's program based on ~60 years of data? If it was all about first round talent, you would think that UNC would have more titles than Indiana, UCLA, and Kentucky... but they don't. Hmmm.

[kong123]

Roy has 11 players in the NBA that he recruited when he was at Kansas. UNC has around 10 players that he coached since he has been at UNC. 3 or 4 of them were recruited by Matt Doherty. So, if we want to be fair, having more than 20 players in the NBA that have been coached by Roy Williams is pretty impressive. However, out of all of those players, none of them are stars, but they are making quite a bit of money.

[Carolina_Blue]

Duke had more wins (total and conference) last year than Kentucky and Indiana put together. Is it really fair to lump Duke in with those two?





That's an impressive table... that dates back to the 1950's. Are you really making the argument about the talent in Roy's program based on ~60 years of data? If it was all about first round talent, you would think that UNC would have more titles than Indiana, UCLA, and Kentucky... but they don't. Hmmm.

thats not my article you asked for facts and I gave them..unlike Duke we are not a program based on a single coach...we are a program....one coach does not make or break our program...if coach K continues on this path he will become the bobby bowden of acc basketball....built a program to prominence and ran it into ground....maybe consider dawkins sooner rather than later

[kong123]

Roy's "stubborness" has been a very positive thing as far as we are concerned....3 final fours 2 championships in the last 5 years is no accident. PLAYERS win championships

my point is, he could be better if he switched it up a little bit during the game and if he used his timeouts a little more often. he finishes the year with the most uncalled timeouts each year.

[Carolina_Blue]

my point is, he could be better if he switched it up a little bit during the game and if he used his timeouts a little more often. he finishes the year with the most uncalled timeouts each year.

If it isn't broke then you don't fix it.

[whereinthehellami]

He's played in exactly three games thus far. Let's give him a little more time, please, before relegating him to the end of the bench. Anyway, his stats while not earthshattering aren't terrible thus far either.Why would I give him more time? He's got a big mouth and doesn't have the game to back it up. Sure he could turn it around but he has been recruited over by better players. The writing is on the wall. He will be a role player at best. I wonder how chemistry will be for these role players once the recruits come in?

My big problem with roy is that he comes across like a used car salesman to me. There is nothing to him. At least Dean was an interesting man and one that I could respect. roy is a winner but no diffrent than calipari (except for the whole cheating thing) in that he is just another face in the college basketball world. When I think of roy, i think of a golf playing, coke drinking, used car salesman who wins alot at a state school that is a basketball factory.

[juise]

if coach K continues on this path he will become the bobby bowden of acc basketball....built a program to prominence and ran it into ground....maybe consider dawkins sooner rather than later

You're talking about a coach who won 30 games last year and a program that has the most wins in this decade. :rolleyes:

I am retiring from this conversation. Clearly there is no productive discussion to be had.

[SMO]

Are you guys seriously that upset about those comments? I mean that is part of recruiting! Telling the player that his game fits best into what your trying to do. You can say that coach K takes a morale high road on that type of thing if you want to but we both know that its not true.....I think that Roy's brand is selling better than Coach K's brand right now. I know I will be crucified on this board for this but I also think Coach K has lost some of the luster he had in the 90's. These comments are quite mild for this rivalry. I will say this I do think Roy has an easier time recruiting players...(Brand Name, Jordan sponsorship, Tradition, History)

Totally. Coach K's brand stinks. Just ask LeBron, Kobe, Melo, and DWade. Nice try!!!

[kong123]

Totally. Coach K's brand stinks. Just ask LeBron, Kobe, Melo, and DWade. Nice try!!!

did I miss something? I would have loved to of been in CIS when they played for us. When are we going to retire their jersey's?

[SMO]

I remember Coach K telling Dean Smith to "go to Hell" ...attitude reflects leadership so your players public morale high ground means nothing to me....is it propaganda if its the truth? yes I absolutely believe UNC should be running even with the young backcourt. If you go back and look at Larry Drew's high school tapes he was very effective in the break...and Stickland and Mcdonald will eventually show that is their stregnth too. We will take our lumps this year while they learn the "Carolina Way"...its no accident that Roy recruited them ... because their style fits into the system....every coach has their system or their style of play. and as far as public perception goes I think Carolina is leading propaganda or not

Anyone notice the distinct lack of correct grammar coming from some UNC fans' posts? I would have taken the moral, not morale, high ground and not mentioned it, but apparently it would have meant nothing to this poster. Regardless of what this person thinks, professionalism (including avoiding "locker room material") is valued in almost any organization. I'm sure Strickland will learn that one day.

[Indoor66]

Why feed the Troll?

[Carolina_Blue]

during Bowdens decline he could still boast that he was beating up on acc opponents in football....but eventually it slowly grinds to a halt......i personally think that when you got to johnny dawkins recruiting will pick up....even with coach k's success with team USA does that transfer to college success....there is no question that coach K is a brilliant basketball coach I am not trying to piss people off...I am just presenting a different point of view....and I really believe that johnny dawkins relates better to recruits than coach k I believe he will sell duke basketball instead of selling playing in coach k's system

[Carolina_Blue]

Anyone notice the distinct lack of correct grammar coming from some UNC fans' posts? I would have taken the moral, not morale, high ground and not mentioned it, but apparently it would have meant nothing to this poster. Regardless of what this person thinks, professionalism (including avoiding "locker room material") is valued in almost any organization. I'm sure Strickland will learn that one day.

thanks blog spell check. I didnt realize we were being graded on grammar....when I post something on the internet I am not too concerned about spelling I assure you I know the difference...however I am not typing these posts like I am typing a formal document.

[calltheobvious]

You're talking about a coach who won 30 games last year and a program that has the most wins in this decade. :rolleyes:

I am retiring from this conversation. Clearly there is no productive discussion to be had.

Would the mods considering locking this thing down? This thread has devolved into nothing more than an IC-like ******* contest.

Blech.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Yea I have heard that excuse before, but no amount of convincing will tell me that Corey Maggete and Elton Brand met the Duke admission requirements that other students face athletes or not

Maggette and Brand were both excellent students. Racially stereotype much?

Maybe, you're thinking of the diploma mill that allowed Cota to got to UNC?

http://espn.go.com/gen/s/2002/0524/1386557.html

Or, perhaps, Deshawn Stevenson's miraculously improving his SAT scores by 700 points (after travelling from California to North Carolina to take the test)? Ole Roy, dadgum it, thought Stevenson got a raw deal when the NCAA asked him to re-take the test. Oops, the third test went back down below 650.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2009/06/memphis_basketball_teaches_the.html

[cbnaylor]

I have a problem with Carolina Blue statement that Duke is going downhill. If that is the case, why are you on this board? Clearly, Duke still concerns the Smurf Village. Just saying.

[BlueintheFace]

Who's guarding the DBR front gate. Did somebody fall asleep on the job??? What's going on around here with all of these new trolls?

[JStuart]

I suppose that's the quality of discourse from one who has a diploma from the 'university of the people', assuming that the poster actually attended UNC-CH...


Anyone notice the distinct lack of correct grammar coming from some UNC fans' posts? I would have taken the moral, not morale, high ground and not mentioned it, but apparently it would have meant nothing to this poster. Regardless of what this person thinks, professionalism (including avoiding "locker room material") is valued in almost any organization. I'm sure Strickland will learn that one day.

[Carolina_Blue]

I have a problem with Carolina Blue statement that Duke is going downhill. If that is the case, why are you on this board? Clearly, Duke still concerns the Smurf Village. Just saying.

I just enjoy talking basketball...especially about this rivalry if I wanted to have everyone agree with what I said I would go to a UNC board.....I am not trying to piss yall off I am just presenting a point-of-view...for the most part I value what you guys are saying...and in some instances has altered my own point of view....I am not taking what you guys say to heart and I hope yall arent offended by what I say

[Indoor66]

Why do you continue to respond? Do cares what Strikland has to say?

[SMO]

did I miss something? I would have loved to of been in CIS when they played for us. When are we going to retire their jersey's?

Well...Coach K has been known to coach them and someone was attacking the Coach K brand. I suggested them as several prominent NBA players who would likely support Coach K's brand (hanging medals on his neck and all). Do you not agree that players that hang medals around their coaches neck likely support his brand?

[Carolina_Blue]

Maggette and Brand were both excellent students. Racially stereotype much?

Maybe, you're thinking of the diploma mill that allowed Cota to got to UNC?

http://espn.go.com/gen/s/2002/0524/1386557.html

Or, perhaps, Deshawn Stevenson's miraculously improving his SAT scores by 700 points (after travelling from California to North Carolina to take the test)? Ole Roy, dadgum it, thought Stevenson got a raw deal when the NCAA asked him to re-take the test. Oops, the third test went back down below 650.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2009/06/memphis_basketball_teaches_the.html

How am I stereotyping racially just based on the fact that the two people I mentioned are african-american ... I used him because he was investigated by the ncaa...race had nothing to do with it.

[jesus_hurley]

maybe the fact that maggete took payments from Myron Piggie a man who went to federal prison for fraud...i have to question the intelligence of anyone that takes a couple thousand bucks (which should have compromised his amateur playing status) when they know they will make millions in the next years...admittedly I through elton brand because he was around the same recruiting timeline....Carolina does not thump our chests as an academic institution we are and forever will be a university for the people...but for you to think that your not getting players simply because of your high academic standards is flawed

As far as Maggette goes, I'd like to refer you to the facts of the case:
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=29167

Don't believe everything Doyel, Parrish or the N&O writes in the future.

As as an Alum (or fan) of 'The university for the people', you admit to stereotyping Elton Brand. Which class was it that taught you that?

[SMO]

thanks blog spell check. I didnt realize we were being graded on grammar....when I post something on the internet I am not too concerned about spelling I assure you I know the difference...however I am not typing these posts like I am typing a formal document.

Just a suggestion. I could barely read some of your posts the way your sentences ran on and on! Troll along.

[Carolina_Blue]

Who's guarding the DBR front gate. Did somebody fall asleep on the job??? What's going on around here with all of these new trolls?

why would u wana ban me because I have different ideas and perspective....I am not trying to offend people here...just lookin to talk basketball...sincere apologies if someone took something wrong

[77devil]

unlike Duke we are not a program based on a single coach...we are a program....one coach does not make or break our program...if coach K continues on this path he will become the bobby bowden of acc basketball....built a program to prominence and ran it into ground...

How well did the UNC "program" hold up under Guthridge and Doherty? Duke under Vic Bubas dominated the UNC and the ACC for most of the 60's. Duke dominated the rivalry in the early to mid 50's, etc. Either you have no knowledge of the history of either program or your just being a troll. To suggest that K is on a trajectory to run the program into the ground after a 30 win season and the ACC championship is absurd.

If you want to make thoughtful, well reasoned commentary, fine, otherwise go away to the IC board. And here is a link to some history.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=3666939

[SMO]

why would u wana ban me because I have different ideas and perspective....I am not trying to offend people here...just lookin to talk basketball...sincere apologies if someone took something wrong

I accept your apology but kindly ask that you make well-reasoned arguments (e.g., avoid unrelated Bobby Bowden references, don't question Elton Brand's academic credentials, etc.). If you really want to talk basketball you'll find plenty of folks willing to do so despite our varied opinions.

[jesus_hurley]

He's played in exactly three games thus far. Let's give him a little more time, please, before relegating him to the end of the bench. Anyway, his stats while not earthshattering aren't terrible thus far either.

While I appreciate that he has only played in 3 games so far, I'd like to refer everyone to a comparison to another player who has also played only 3 games so far:

Dexter:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=45533

Some other guy:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=46255

Now, this other player is in a really restrictive system and I sure hope it doesn't change him as a player...... :D

[Carolina_Blue]

I accept your apology but kindly ask that you make well-reasoned arguments (e.g., avoid unrelated Bobby Bowden references, don't question Elton Brand's academic credentials, etc.). If you really want to talk basketball you'll find plenty of folks willing to do so despite our varied opinions.

point taken ;)

[jesus_hurley]

I accept your apology but kindly ask that you make well-reasoned arguments (e.g., avoid unrelated Bobby Bowden references, don't question Elton Brand's academic credentials, etc.). If you really want to talk basketball you'll find plenty of folks willing to do so despite our varied opinions.

This is exactly right. There are a number of posters who cheer for UNC-CH here. Their posts are well thought out and they come across as reasonable fans. While some may not agree with what they say, it's a rare occurrence when people take issue with how it's said. Wheat should be the example all of the powder blue posters here emulate.

That being said, I highly recommend reading the sticky posts.

[Kedsy]

thats not my article you asked for facts and I gave them..unlike Duke we are not a program based on a single coach...we are a program....one coach does not make or break our program...if coach K continues on this path he will become the bobby bowden of acc basketball....built a program to prominence and ran it into ground....maybe consider dawkins sooner rather than later

Just because you don't know the history of Duke's program doesn't mean it didn't happen. The team that passed NC State for ACC prominence was Duke, not UNC. Duke was the dominant ACC program in the early- to mid-1960s, and is every bit the "program" that UNC is.

You say your program isn't about one coach, but if you don't count Dean Smith then UNC has only won four ACC championships (tournament), and that includes one by Gut with el Deano's players, while Duke has won five ACC championships (tournament) besides those won by K. Non-Dean UNC coaches have reached the ACC championship game and lost an additional four times (including one for Gut) while non-K Duke coaches have done so six times. For Final Fours, Gut went to two with Dean's players but besides those and if you don't count Dean it was only two before Roy got here, while non-K Duke coaches have been to four.

[airowe]

point taken ;)

C_B, meet Wheat: http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/member.php?u=1343

Look back at some of his posts, and that should show you how opposing fans are respected around here when they come forth with rational viewpoints and try to not antagonize. We are a welcoming bunch here when nobody pees in our cornflakes.

[6th Man]

OK Carolina Blue...if you really want to talk basketball, I am curious of the perception about Duke. So you think Barnes will be better off being at UNC for developing his NBA game. While I don't think UNC hurts him with the professional game, how does Duke make him worse off? If he is as good as everyone says then I can compare him to the likes of Grant Hill, Shane Battier, and Luol Deng. 2 of these were national player of the years with Luol being drafted after his freshman season. Now for the life of me, I do not see how these guys were held back by the Duke system. Gerald Henderson last year was given so many isolation plays I wanted to scream. But for the NBA it was great. They play man to man defense. They all shoot the ball like crazy. Those that have the ability to drive can take it to the rim. I could see how the last 2 years someone could look at Singler and say he was playing out of position, but it was out of necessity. This year he is playing the 3 and doing whatever he wants on the court. I swear for the life me don't see how anyone is being held back from just being the player they want to be.

[oldnavy]

maybe the fact that maggete took payments from Myron Piggie a man who went to federal prison for fraud...i have to question the intelligence of anyone that takes a couple thousand bucks (which should have compromised his amateur playing status) when they know they will make millions in the next years...admittedly I through elton brand because he was around the same recruiting timeline....Carolina does not thump our chests as an academic institution we are and forever will be a university for the people...but for you to think that your not getting players simply because of your high academic standards is flawed

I knew that this was coming. "Yea, but we are the school for the people, by the people, blah, blah, blah"... I hear the Charles Kuralt speech playing in the background...

You will never win the academic argument, so best just stick to the "last 5 years" argument, where you do have some legitimate basis for bragging... for now...

[AnimalFriendly]

Why would I give him more time? He's got a big mouth and doesn't have the game to back it up. Sure he could turn it around but he has been recruited over by better players. The writing is on the wall. He will be a role player at best. I wonder how chemistry will be for these role players once the recruits come in?

My big problem with roy is that he comes across like a used car salesman to me. There is nothing to him. At least Dean was an interesting man and one that I could respect. roy is a winner but no diffrent than calipari (except for the whole cheating thing) in that he is just another face in the college basketball world. When I think of roy, i think of a golf playing, coke drinking, used car salesman who wins alot at a state school that is a basketball factory.

You should give Strickland more time because he's only played 3 college games. Simple as that. You "wonder how chemistry will be" for "role players"?? :confused: Despite many predictions to the contrary on this board and others, Carolina didn't have any problems with chemistry last year and I don't anticipate them having any in 2010 either.

I won't dignify your comments about Roy other than to say that, right now at least, calling him THE face makes more sense than calling him another face.

[oldnavy]

You should give Strickland more time because he's only played 3 college games. Simple as that. You "wonder how chemistry will be" for "role players"?? :confused: Despite many predictions to the contrary on this board and others, Carolina didn't have any problems with chemistry last year and I don't anticipate them having any in 2010 either.

I won't dignify your comments about Roy other than to say that, right now at least, calling him THE face makes more sense than calling him another face.

Winning cures a lot of ills. Who was going to complain last year when things were going so well? IF, or rather when, the holes start to lose some games this year, well... then we will see if there are chemistry problems...

[AnimalFriendly]

Just because you don't know the history of Duke's program doesn't mean it didn't happen. The team that passed NC State for ACC prominence was Duke, not UNC. Duke was the dominant ACC program in the early- to mid-1960s, and is every bit the "program" that UNC is.

You say your program isn't about one coach, but if you don't count Dean Smith then UNC has only won four ACC championships (tournament), and that includes one by Gut with el Deano's players, while Duke has won five ACC championships (tournament) besides those won by K. Non-Dean UNC coaches have reached the ACC championship game and lost an additional four times (including one for Gut) while non-K Duke coaches have done so six times. For Final Fours, Gut went to two with Dean's players but besides those and if you don't count Dean it was only two before Roy got here, while non-K Duke coaches have been to four.

Your comment re: "passing" N.C. State is surprising to me given that it was McGuire and UNC that won the 1957 NCAAs, not State. That was the ACC's only national title until 1974. And yes, I'm aware of Case's very strong impact on ACC basketball. I think CB's point re: a program "not being about one coach" had a lot more to do with UNC having 5 national titles spread among three coaches, than anything to do with ACC Tournament Championships. And for the record, Gut's 2000 Final Four appearance was mostly with his own players - only the seniors had been recruited by Dean.

[AnimalFriendly]

Winning cures a lot of ills. Who was going to complain last year when things were going so well? IF, or rather when, the holes start to lose some games this year, well... then we will see if there are chemistry problems...

Oh, maybe the players who weren't getting many minutes....that's the most common scenario bringing about chemistry issues. I've seen terrible "chemistry problems" brazenly predicted re: nearly all of Roy's UNC teams. Hasn't happened yet and and isn't likely to this year. Give Roy credit for usually being able to well manage a lot of big egos and keep everybody reasonably happy. That's not an easy thing to do, even (despite?) when you're winning a lot.

[RoyalBlue08]

I'll say one thing for Ol' Roy. He seemed to be able to handle the egos and personalities that were tearing apart that Felton, May et al. team. That was no easy task.

[Owen Meany]

Elton was a fine student, but he went to Peekskill High School which is as public as public school gets and a pretty poor one at that. George Pataki is from Peekskill, and he went to Peekskill High School, but his kids never went there. I'll defend Elton to the end, but let's be accurate.




I stand corrected on the private school. I have read several places where Brand and the Governor's daughter were "classmates" http://www.georgepataki.com/cgi-data/press/files/35.shtml. One article mentioned them being in a pageant together in Middle School, so perhaps that is when they were classmates.

As far as being a poor school, I guess that would depend on your frame of reference. But I found the following information from 2008:

For the second consecutive year Peekskill High School is listed on Newsweek's 2008 Washington Post Challenge Index of the top high schools in the nation. This year, the school ranked in the top 5% of all high schools nationally based on the ratio of graduating seniors and students taking Advanced Placement Tests.

Regardless, I don't want to debate the pros and cons of Peekskill High. I just posted the above in the school's defense, since I brought the school up.

The point stands that Elton was an excellent student who excelled both in high school and on a standardized test that is administered nation-wide. Any basketball program would have been proud to have him

[Duvall]

Carolina does not thump our chests as an academic institution we are and forever will be a university for the people...

As opposed to all those universities for robots and aliens, I guess.

And the quote is actually "the university of the people," not "a university." That's important, because it shows a remarkable lack of regard for the other public institutions in the state, who apparently weren't deemed worthy of respect by UNC's favorite purveyor of human interest pablum.

Some people might say that's a thumping of the chest. And by some people, I mean me. I'm saying it.

[CLT Devil]

point taken ;)

It's been pretty hard for 'Holes to accept that Duke has surpassed UNC as far as NBA talent...that was always their last leg to stand on. Just wait in a couple of years when the 'Sheeds, 'Stacks and VC's are in serious decline. When they used to use that argument, I'd just tell them that I don't watch the NBA, but of course realize that is every college kid's dream, so it is relevant.

I guarantee Carolina Blue did not go to UNC. Most of the 'Holes I know are thoughtful, well-spoken folks. When someone says that Duke Bball is just Coach K, and we need to go ahead and replace him with Dawkins, and then further says K is running the program into the ground like BB did (is doing) at FSU - You can't take them seriously.

Carolina Blue, there is too much to even begin as far as disputing your inferences, so I will leave it at this; UNC and Duke do NOT get their players from the same pool academically. UNC is somewhere around the middle of the pack as far as admission standards.

Thump your chest now, while you can. I was at Duke from '98-'02, prob the best four years to be a student other than early nineties. Every Tarhole fan like yourself had the Chicken Little mentality...except for the faithful who knew that everntually things would even back out. You guys are on top right now. Enjoy it. It won't last forever. And when we are back on top...you won't see me on IC or some other team's fan site looking to stir things up. Act like you have been there before, and know that no matter how bad it gets (8-20) you will likely be back there again one day. Learn to win with class, and lose with class, and then you will find your respect.

[devil84]

OK, this has gone on long enough. The discussion hasn't been on-topic for some time, and it's no longer productive.

Everyone take a deep breath, read the stickied threads up at the top of this board, and return to the high level of discourse that defines DBR.

This thread is done.