Front Page Article on Women's Recruit

[CLT Devil]

When I first read this article I had the same reaction, does not sound flattering to the program. But after thinking about it, here is what I concluded;

It is unfortunate that the coaches did not tell Claire earlier that they had recruited players more highly touted than her and she wouldn't likely play for this reason. Being what Duke is, one of the best educational institutions in the country, and one of the most expensive, I would say that she could do far worse than sit on the bench for 4 years and have a Duke degree...all for free. Sure, everyone wants to make it to the (W)NBA, but if you are not going to get minutes at one of the better programs in the country what are your odds of getting drafted and having a lucrative career playing basketball? Take the scholarship, get your degree and have a successful career doing whatever you want.

On the surface the article is not flattering to Duke, but when an elite academic school is offering you a full ride, I really don't see how one can complain...regardless of whether or not she plays siginificant minutes or not. I think it would be a different story if they are trying to rescind her scholly because they want another player and only have so many to give, but from what I gather they would still honor their offer.

Thoughts?

[AlaskanAssassin]

I think it's Duke's fault for telling her she wouldn't get any playing time. I mean, she has yet to step on the court and practice with the team-how would they know if she won't get any time? She could do very well and may even be better than the higher ranked players. I am really disliking Duke's women coaching staff for this.

[Lid]

I had similar thoughts. As a Duke fan, it made me sad to read about a recruitment clearly gone sour. At the same time, though, my understanding is that Duke was willing to honor their scholarship offer, which is all any recruit can really expect. (And, in fact, is apparently more than some men's recruits can expect.)

The article left out an important angle -- that Coach P's recruiting has taken off, and Watkins' situation is likely very related to the enormously talented class coming in. I don't remember seeing anyone up in arms about men's coaches always going after the best available players. Clearly, when those players sign, it means fewer minutes (and often transfers) for the less-talented players, and if the higher-rated players sign late, it puts those other players in a difficult position. (I don't know if Watkins falls in this less-talented group, never having seen her play, but it seems likely.) Schools could either:
- not offer the second tier players until all first tier players have committed elsewhere
- offer both tiers simultaneously, then work playing time out after everyone is on campus
- act as Duke did here, and tell the second tier player that playing time will be severely limited or nonexistent, then let the recruit make a decision.

I don't like the story, but I'm not entirely sure the alternatives are more palatable.

[JaMarcus Russell]

They probably have a good idea of her limitations, and there is definitely a noticeable gap in women's basketball. It's better that they got this over with before she became a part of the team, but they could have handled it much better. First, they should have told her far earlier than the first week of October. I am assuming they only told her after a better recruit signed on. It's a lousy thing to do, but forcing someone off the team after they have established their social life on campus is a far worse thing to do, and it happens on teams around the country.

Basically, the staff misevaluated a player and they had four choices. First, they could have told her much earlier on (regardless of whether a better player committed). As a second option, they could have turned down a commitment from the higher ranked player and kept this girl on the team even though she wouldn't have the same impact. The third option would be to honor her commitment, but if she doesn't do well, "encourage" her to transfer elsewhere. This is the worst option in my opinion. The fourth option is to discourage her from attending, which is what they decided to do.

With all that being said, I highly doubt the Charlotte Observer would write a feature story about a football player being "asked" to transfer from UNC to make room for the 85 person limit. As far as I know, they didn't write about the situation with the Duke baseball team in the fall of 2005 either. I guess neither group made a particularly compelling story. And I am also curious if they would have even touched this story if this had occurred with the UNC women's team.

[SoCalDukeFan]

While it would have been nice if Duke had told her earlier, I really don't see the problem. I would also rather have the Duke coaches tell her where she stands rather than have her think she is going to play and then sit on the bench for 4 years.

Isn't she better off going to a school for 4 years and playing rather than going to Duke for 1 or 2, not playing, then transferring?

If she really is a great student then there should be plenty of very good schools that want her.

Duke probably recruited her too hard and too early. Happens all the time. She and her parents need to face reality. One of the benefits of being an athlete is a scholarship. One of the costs is situations like this.

There are lots of athletes sitting on the bench who could play at other programs. Many were misled by the coaches to think they would be starters.
I am glad that Duke was honest with her.

SoCal

[allenmurray]

. . . that McCallie did not contact the girl herself. She instead assigned that task to one of her assistant coaches. That is poor leadership.

The decision may have been a sound one. They recruited far more talented players, realized that Watkins would get no playing time, told her so, and offerred to honor her scholarship. So far, so good. But McCallie must have known that getting that kind of news (after being heavily recruited, getting signed notes of encourgement, Chirstmas cards, etc.) would break the heart of a 16 year old recruit. Instead of being a real leader, McCallie showed an incredible lack of class by having an assistant coach make the phone call. That should not be representative of how things are done at Duke - it reflects horribly on McCallie and on the university, and is classless beyond measure.

There are some things a leader takes on for him or herself, no matter how unpleasant. That is the crux of leadership. The decision may have been sound. How it was carried out leaves me with no respect for McCallie.

[CLT Devil]

They probably have a good idea of her limitations, and there is definitely a noticeable gap in women's basketball. It's better that they got this over with before she became a part of the team, but they could have handled it much better. First, they should have told her far earlier than the first week of October. I am assuming they only told her after a better recruit signed on. It's a lousy thing to do, but forcing someone off the team after they have established their social life on campus is a far worse thing to do, and it happens on teams around the country.

Basically, the staff misevaluated a player and they had four choices. First, they could have told her much earlier on (regardless of whether a better player committed). As a second option, they could have turned down a commitment from the higher ranked player and kept this girl on the team even though she wouldn't have the same impact. The third option would be to honor her commitment, but if she doesn't do well, "encourage" her to transfer elsewhere. This is the worst option in my opinion. The fourth option is to discourage her from attending, which is what they decided to do.

With all that being said, I highly doubt the Charlotte Observer would write a feature story about a football player being "asked" to transfer from UNC to make room for the 85 person limit. As far as I know, they didn't write about the situation with the Duke baseball team in the fall of 2005 either. I guess neither group made a particularly compelling story. And I am also curious if they would have even touched this story if this had occurred with the UNC women's team.

If you know anything about the Charlotte Observer you'd know that it would not have gotten any press. I think the main point was that is was a local girl here in town (Charlotte), but their disparity in coverage between Duke and UNC is laughable. I once wrote to the sports editor about this, and he wrote me back, saying that he has to write to hs audience...Tarholes.

Back to my original point: Sure, maybe they did start the recruitment too early, but I can think of much worse situations that having four years of college paid for just to ride the pine. If it's all about basketball, go somewhere else. If it is about bettering yourself and building on the rest of your life beyond basketball, you can do a lot worse than having a full ride to Duke.

For every JJ Redick there's a Jamal Boykin. Even the best coaches missevaluate players...at least ours were honest about doing it. I hate to hear a young girl got her feelings hurt, but nothing has been taken away from her. As a parent, I can understand being upset....at least until you pay your first tuition to Duke because your kid does not have a scholarship but still wants to go to Duke.

[CLT Devil]

. . . that McCallie did not contact the girl herself. She instead assigned that task to one of her assistant coaches. That is poor leadership.

The decision may have been a sound one. They recruited far more talented players, realized that Watkins would get no playing time, told her so, and offerred to honor her scholarship. So far, so good. But McCallie must have known that getting that kind of news (after being heavily recruited, getting signed notes of encourgement, Chirstmas cards, etc.) would break the heart of a 16 year old recruit. Instead of being a real leader, McCallie showed an incredible lack of class by having an assistant coach make the phone call. That should not be representative of how things are done at Duke - it reflects horribly on McCallie and on the university, and is classless beyond measure.

There are some things a leader takes on for him or herself, no matter how unpleasant. That is the crux of leadership. The decision may have been sound. How it was carried out leaves me with no respect for McCallie.

I do agree with you on this point. I wouldn't say classless beyond measure, such as Calipari trying to force scholly players to transfer when taking over KY, but it is a black eye for the coach. I don't think there's much the university itself can do, but no doubt McCallie handled this wrong by not personally calling, and I think the AD might need to let her know that this is not how things are handled at Duke. Like you said AllenMurray, that's what a leader does...makes those hard phone calls, and apparently she didn't. Otherwise, I stand by my original assessment of the situation.

[ojaidave]

All I know of the situation is what I read in this article, but I don't think this reflects that poorly on Duke. Before her Junior year, the recruit was told to work harder and be more aggressive. That seemed to be a major theme throughout the article: work harder, be more aggressive.

The coaches stop calling and the recruit is told that she wouldn't see any playing time - but Duke will still honor her scholarship. This isn't a case of a scholarship offer being pulled, everything this recruit wants is still on the table if she'll fight for it.

Instead, she's decided to go elsewhere and we get the words of a former coach saying that whoever gets the recruit, "when that light comes on, watch out." The implication is pretty clear that the light still hasn't come on yet.

The coaches have told her what she's needed to do all along. Work harder, be aggressive.

I feel bad for the girl because I'm sure this has been very difficult emotionally. Duke, being a world class university and aspiring perennial Div 1 powerhouse, has done what they felt was best for the school and the recruit. My guess is that Duke or any other elite school, would prefer that every member on their team was willing to fight through hardship for playing time. It's what separates the best from the next tier of students/athletes.

I hope she finds a great situation for her - wherever she ends up.

[JasonEvans]

For every JJ Redick there's a Jamal Boykin. Even the best coaches missevaluate players...at least ours were honest about doing it. I hate to hear a young girl got her feelings hurt, but nothing has been taken away from her. As a parent, I can understand being upset....at least until you pay your first tuition to Duke because your kid does not have a scholarship but still wants to go to Duke.

Well, this is not really similar to Boykin because he was a highly regarded recruit who just did not pan out. This is a woman who probably never belonged in a program the caliber of Duke if she cared at all about playing time.

There is little question that aspects of this were handled poorly by McCallie and her staff. At the same time, I think the article was slightly slanted to make the recruit look good and Duke look bad (makes for a better story that way-- I am not sure it matters where she got the scholarship offer).

She was faced with a decision-- go to a school with a fabulous academic reputation and not play ball or find somewhere else to play ball. She chose the latter. That's fine. The writer implies that Duke waited so long that this recruit will have a hard time finding another school. I find that extremely hard to believe. If she is a decent recruit then there will be plenty of school beating down the door for her. Scholarships are simply not that scarce for players who can contribute to a program. She just needs to find the level of program that is appropriate for her and everything will work itself out. It is not like this is the middle of the summer. The vast majority of her high school senior classmates have not even sent in their applications to college yet.

--Jason "lets check back on this in a few months and see where she ends up" Evans

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

She still has the scholarship if she wants it.

No player under Coach P, as far as I know, is guaranteed playing time. One earns that via practice time. Am I wrong about that?

She is being told (perhaps implicitly, maybe they should have been more explicit?) that the caliber of the recruits is really, really good--be sure that if you come to play everything will have to be earned and this is going to be tough, very tough--unless you can get more aggressive.

The assistant coach calls to tell her because in Coach P's mind she is still coming. What is wrong with that?

They stopped sending cards and making calls because they wanted the young lady to think about this very seriously. They were hoping she would progress and in the AAU games they saw she wasn't. Maybe she had even digressed.

Furthermore, Duke (rather than stockpiling players so to speak) is giving her the skinny on how things are going to probably be based on the kids who are at school along with the recruiting class. This does not mean she can't be a part of it, she can be and they are telling her how she can be--get more aggressive. What do you want the assistant coach to do, lie and say she is probably going to get 30 minutes a game and is most likely going to be the center-piece of the offense and can expect to get lots of exposure? Also, they aren't saying you won't have a chance, just show us. They are being open and honest. Reminds me a bit of Coach K.

Duke is honoring everything they promised. This young woman does not want to fight for a role on the team. This might be a bit harsh, but it reminds me of Taylor King on the men's team, just a little earlier in the process and thwarting off the necessity to transfer. Then again, I might be missing something and if so what I am writing could be wrong though well intentioned.

GO DUKE!

[Onlyduke]

When I read the story I wondered if there was any connection to the whole Harrison Barnes' incident ...... perhaps people should have felt sorry for Duke after recruiting HB for so long and UNC swooping in at the last minute and Duke being "second choice" so to speak. So don't feel sorry for Duke being "second choice" ..... they make plenty of recruits "second choice". I'd love to know how long the Charlotte Observer knew about this story.

[AluminumDuke]

While I am certainly not questioning the integrity of either this girl or her family, I know from my own experiences in delivering unwelcome news that what is said and what is heard can differ substantially. There's a big difference between "I have to be honest with you; based on your development since we offered you a scholarship together with that of some of the players that committed later, we think that it will be difficult for you to find playing time here. In fairness to you, we'd like to give you the opportunity to reconsider your options. Of course, we'd still love to have you and you still have a scholarship here if you want it." and "You'll never get playing time here. We'll honor your scholarship, but if you come here you'll never see the floor."

We'll never know what exactly was said. We also don't know whether some of the previous comments to her about needing to be more aggressive were communicated in such a way as to imply that there was a problem. Whether the coaching staff has remained silent so as not to further embarrass the kid or to spare themselves further embarrassment, we'll also never know.

I do agree, however, that this should have been communicated by Coach McCallie from the start.

[diablesseblu]

. . . that McCallie did not contact the girl herself. She instead assigned that task to one of her assistant coaches. That is poor leadership.

The decision may have been a sound one. They recruited far more talented players, realized that Watkins would get no playing time, told her so, and offerred to honor her scholarship. So far, so good. But McCallie must have known that getting that kind of news (after being heavily recruited, getting signed notes of encourgement, Chirstmas cards, etc.) would break the heart of a 16 year old recruit. Instead of being a real leader, McCallie showed an incredible lack of class by having an assistant coach make the phone call. That should not be representative of how things are done at Duke - it reflects horribly on McCallie and on the university, and is classless beyond measure.

There are some things a leader takes on for him or herself, no matter how unpleasant. That is the crux of leadership. The decision may have been sound. How it was carried out leaves me with no respect for McCallie.


Agree completely. None of us will ever know what actually transpired here. I can imagine though that a heartbroken student and her parents would have reacted much differently if this matter had been handled early and by McCallie herself.

It's one thing for us as Duke fans to console ourself that the scholarship was not "rescinded" per se. However, it is clear that the young lady was not welcomed to try to compete for playing time. Ergo, the coaching staff apparently had a completely closed mind about her future.

I am very troubled about what this communicates to other potential recruits and their families. Granted, coaches make mistakes in the recruiting process. However, this sounds a bit like asking someone to the prom and then ditching them when you get a better offer. You know, the "ditcher" warns "if we still go together, you won't have a good time with me. And, oh by the way, I told you not to cut your hair. I don't like it." In other words, it's all about what I want/my happiness. But you have to make the final decision and bear the brunt of unpleasant consequences because it's actually your fault. Not really much of a choice, is it?

To cite one example of this disturbing process that seems indisputable: for the Duke staff to apparently "send a message" by stopping its contact with her is very passive aggressive at its best. Who are the adults here?

I know I may sound like a recruiting naif but it appears as if the Duke WBB staff doesn't really want to accept responsibility for their decisions. There is still lots of cached discussion out there in cyberspace about the transition from G to P. For that reason alone (and actually in her own interest), the head coach should be especially careful/sensitive in how she handles recruits/families.

[sagegrouse]

Hi,

She still has the scholarship if she wants it.

No player under Coach P, as far as I know, is guaranteed playing time. One earns that via practice time. Am I wrong about that?

Duke is honoring everything they promised. This young woman does not want to fight for a role on the team. This might be a bit harsh, but it reminds me of Taylor King on the men's team, just a little earlier in the process and thwarting off the necessity to transfer. Then again, I might be missing something and if so what I am writing could be wrong though well intentioned.

GO DUKE!

Kewlswim:

Maybe you missed this passage in the article:


"The next day, Williams told Clair to call McCallie. This time, Clair was ready with a list of things she wanted to say, things that would show the coach she was wrong. "I'll fight for playing time," Clair said. She remembers the coach saying there was nothing to fight for. They didn't see her on the team."

According to this, Claire could attend Duke on scholarship but would not be given a uniform or a chance to try out for the team. So much for "earning minutes."

Now, I agree, there may be another side to the story of what was offered. But....

sagegrouse

[CameronBornAndBred]

It is unfortunate that the coaches did not tell Claire earlier that they had recruited players more highly touted than her and she wouldn't likely play for this reason. Being what Duke is, one of the best educational institutions in the country, and one of the most expensive, I would say that she could do far worse than sit on the bench for 4 years and have a Duke degree...all for free. Sure, everyone wants to make it to the (W)NBA, but if you are not going to get minutes at one of the better programs in the country what are your odds of getting drafted and having a lucrative career playing basketball? Take the scholarship, get your degree and have a successful career doing whatever you want.
....
Thoughts?
My thoughts are that McCallie and Co. changed their mind and don't want her, and while they didn't rescind the scholarship, they made it pretty clear she wasn't welcome. It seems to me this was done to free up her scholarship for another player, and I don't like it one bit. I would feel a little better if they never "disinvited" her and let her make her own choice later as far as possibly transferring, but to wait so long and stay incommunicado is shameful. If this were any other program doing it, we as fans of our programs would jump all over the other team in a "our way is better, we don't do that at Duke" attitude. Think I'm wrong? Think Calipari. He did it, and we jumped on him for it. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's not the way programs have been run at Duke, and it's not the way they should be run. Show some integrity, stick to your word. :mad:

[miramar]

To add to the Calipari comparison, I also remember what we were saying about Isiah a few months back when he had an assistant call some recruits to tell them that FIU was no longer interested (basically because Isiah was lining up better players).

While there are two sides to every story, I just hope this situation never repeats itself.

[diablesseblu]

To add to the Calipari comparison, I also remember what we were saying about Isiah a few months back when he had an assistant call some recruits to tell them that FIU was no longer interested (basically because Isiah was lining up better players).

While there are two sides to every story, I just hope this situation never repeats itself.

Interesting comparison. To me, the Duke situation is much worse. My guess is recruits almost expect some "revisiting" when there's a coaching change... (not that it's right.)

Given that McCallie is not new, it makes this approach that much more unacceptable.

[Indoor66]

I don't seem to understand the complaint. Duke offered a scholarship for basketball, it was accepted. Over time the situation changed. The offeree apparently did not progress as anticipated and Duke attracted players at her position who are substantially better. Duke then contacted the offeree and advised her of the changed circumstances and advised her that she would not have an opportunity to play, but she still had her full ride scholarship. They told her she could go somewhere else if she wished or she still could go to Duke.

Am I to understand that it would be more considerate and straightforward to have allowed the offeree to go to Duke, practice basketball with no real chance to ever actually get game time rather than lay out the realities of the situation and allow her to have a choice to look elsewhere for a school or situation in which she might earn playing time?

It seems to me that Duke did the right thing and made the situation known so that the young lady could make the best choices for herself. Certainly the whole situation did not turn out for the best for either party, but not everything in life works out.

IMO Duke did the honorable thing in being forthright with this young lady.

[diablesseblu]

The Duke staff obviously knew they did not want her when she talked to Coach McCallie on October 1st. McCallie could have told her then.

It's beyond me why they waited to tell Ms. Watkins the whole story about their lack of continued interest in her. Anyone who has parented an adolescent through the college application minefield knows how dreadful it would be to have this happen in October of one's senior year. For those of us who have spent our careers as admissions professionals, this seems especially insensitive on the Duke staff's part.

Yes, the WBB staff may have followed the "letter of the law" with regards to Ms. Watkin's scholarship offer. However, my expectations of Duke coaches are a bit different. I might expect this of a couple of coaches in the ACC..... but not Duke's.

[Sir Stealth]

Even though the scholarship was not rescinded, I think that if this happened at another school then we would say that that recruit was "run off" by the coach. It's akin to what is often described as a "cold offer." You are given an official offer so that whoever formed the relationship with you in the first place can save face and act like they honor commitments, but the truth is you are made to feel unwelcome and know that you will not be fully accepted if you choose to follow through. Who knows how accurate the article is, but assuming accuracy, this sounds like what happened when the recruit was told that she really wouldn't be given a chance. This does not come close to Duke's standards.

[sagegrouse]

I don't seem to understand the complaint. Duke offered a scholarship for basketball, it was accepted. Over time the situation changed. The offeree apparently did not progress as anticipated and Duke attracted players at her position who are substantially better. Duke then contacted the offeree and advised her of the changed circumstances and advised her that she would not have an opportunity to play, but she still had her full ride scholarship. They told her she could go somewhere else if she wished or she still could go to Duke.

Am I to understand that it would be more considerate and straightforward to have allowed the offeree to go to Duke, practice basketball with no real chance to ever actually get game time rather than lay out the realities of the situation and allow her to have a choice to look elsewhere for a school or situation in which she might earn playing time?

It seems to me that Duke did the right thing and made the situation known so that the young lady could make the best choices for herself. Certainly the whole situation did not turn out for the best for either party, but not everything in life works out.

IMO Duke did the honorable thing in being forthright with this young lady.

Except she apparently was told she would not be offered a place on the team. So she would have been at Duke on a $200K full ride athletic scholarship without the opportunity to compete or practice in her sport.

Maybe this isn't what happened (although the article seemed clear), but this is substantially different from advising a recruit that they are welcome on the team but unlikely to play much.

I don't see the cost in the latter; it is certainly fairer. Since the offer to join the team was not extended, it is not hard to imagine that Duke wanted the scholarship available for another recruit or wanted to avoid giving the scholly at all.

sagegrouse
'Going for post #1,000"

[Duvall]

Since the offer to join the team was not taken, it is not hard to imagine that Duke wanted the scholarship available for another recruit or wanted to avoid giving the scholly at all.

Actually, that's pretty unlikely. With 15 scholarships available, Duke would still have had an extra scholarship available for next year even after giving out scholarships to five other recruits.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

just being the - ahem - Devils' advocate here, but what if Duke learned something about the recruit they didn't like? something of a character issue or legal problem?

perhaps they weren't throwing her under the bus as much as trying to protect the program AND her right to privacy.

I am trying too hard here?

[CLT Devil]

One thing to take into account here is the accuracy of the Charlotte Observer. Facts, and unbiased reporting have never been a strong point of their publication. Without getting into details, let's just say I had a story written about my company that was totally inaccurate, ie they picked two unhappy people out of about 150 and made it out to be that everyone felt the way these two people did. When presented with facts, minutes at City Council meeting and legal representation they told me they were sticking by their original story, even after admitting that what they reported was in large part false.

I know my past experience has nothing to do with this particular article, but anyone in the area knows why it has the nickname the Charlotte Distorter. I might sound like sour grapes, but I don't trust the paper at all. They try to find any angle to persue, and don't ever, ever get both sides of a story.

I do not see any problem with what Duke did in this case. If she is any good she will get to play, or else the coach would be out of her mind to bench her out of spite. It has been confirmed in a previous post it was not to clear up a scholly for another player.

Take the free ride to Duke. I would love to have my kid go there for free without having to practice or play a sport. For those that think it's insensitive to her, I'd love for someone to be insensitive to me by giving me 200K worth of education to not play a sport. I don't trust the article, and don't think we're getting the full story. This wouldn't be the first time the CLT Observer did something like this.

[diablesseblu]

Have no knowledge of this paper and its reputation. However, we have all seen what happens when the media pursues a story with a slant.

It's all the more reason for coaches to be completely aware of the possible "representations" of their actions. After the lacrosse debacle, Duke sports surely need no more bad publicity of any kind. I'm not comparing the two -- just the way the media can and will seize upon the anti-Duke sentiments that already exist.

I agree that the offer of the education itself would be worth pursuing. However, I'm puzzled. I thought athletic scholarships are renewable annually. How could the athletic department justify/defend someone's being awarded this largesse from the "gitgo" ....and who never was even on a team? It sounds more like a $200,000 CYA payout for the staff's "mistake".

It also seems a slap in the face to other Duke athletes who are on partials and to the coaches in other sports who have limited scholarships. It's not like women's BB pays its own way.

[ojaidave]

...

I agree that the offer of the education itself would be worth pursuing. However, I'm puzzled. I thought athletic scholarships are renewable annually. How could the athletic department justify/defend someone's being awarded this largesse from the "gitgo" ....and who never was even on a team? It sounds more like a $200,000 CYA payout for the staff's "mistake".

It also seems a slap in the face to other Duke athletes who are on partials and to the coaches in other sports who have limited scholarships. It's not like women's BB pays its own way.

My understanding is that though scholarships are renewable annually, Duke's policy is to honor their 4 year commitment. Solely from reading this article, this young woman would have been on the Duke basketball team. For four years. She may not have played, but she would have been on the team.

Does the Woman's basketball coach at Duke really have such little credibility? I'm curious as to why so many Duke folks are not willing to extend the benefit of the doubt towards the Duke coaches. Knowledgeable people around this player (a scout, her HS coach, the Duke coaches) seem to see a fundamental flaw, a lack of aggressiveness. When challenged (ie told she wouldn't get playing time at Duke), this player packed it in. Doesn't that fall right in line with her perceived weakness?

I absolutely feel bad for this young woman and the emotional hit she has surely taken with this. That said, I do think that much of what we "know" of this situation comes from the player and her parents. Can the Duke coaches even talk about this unsigned player under NCAA rules? Even if they could, I think anything they say would be taken as piling on. Duke is in a no win situation here. Perhaps the coaching staff should have hedged more with the recruit so she would come to the school, not get playing time and then transfer. So she loses two years of her eligibility, at least Duke wouldn't look so bad.

I hope the player finds a good situation for herself. It sounds like there may be some options available.

[Mike Corey]

Can the Duke coaches even talk about this unsigned player under NCAA rules?

No they cannot.

Also of note: This story was first reported in the Observer over a month ago.

In that initial story in October, the Watkinses told the paper that their daughter's offer had been rescinded. That was false, and the paper had to print a retraction the next day.

Coach McCallie has landed a monster class, perhaps the best on paper that Duke's women have ever had. That was probably unanticipated a year ago. If in fact the Duke staff told Ms. Watkins that playing time would be harder to come by, I'd say that kind of honesty is a good thing because it gave Ms. Watkins the chance to choose between attending Duke and not having as clear a path to the floor as she--and Duke--might have initially anticipated, and going to a school that wasn't as replete with competition for playing time.

That said, I've no idea what happened, but I don't think that this one-sided assessment of McCallie and Co. is to be taken as gospel without corroboration, which conveniently is unavailable at this time.

[Indoor66]

No they cannot.

Also of note: This story was first reported in the Observer over a month ago.

In that initial story in October, the Watkinses told the paper that their daughter's offer had been rescinded. That was false, and the paper had to print a retraction the next day.

Coach McCallie has landed a monster class, perhaps the best on paper that Duke's women have ever had. That was probably unanticipated a year ago. If in fact the Duke staff told Ms. Watkins that playing time would be harder to come by, I'd say that kind of honesty is a good thing because it gave Ms. Watkins the chance to choose between attending Duke and not having as clear a path to the floor as she--and Duke--might have initially anticipated, and going to a school that wasn't as replete with competition for playing time.

That said, I've no idea what happened, but I don't think that this one-sided assessment of McCallie and Co. is to be taken as gospel without corroboration, which conveniently is unavailable at this time.

The reaction of some on this board remind me of some of the press after the LAX charges. Firm opinion and criticism prior to having facts.

[Regenman]

This isn't like LAX at all. It's more like Gary Williams offering Tamir Goodman (the Jewish MJ) and doing the exact same thing (early offer then realizing the kid wasn't that good and using the Sabbath as an excuse).

I remember the Duke community raking him over the coals pretty hard for that action. Let's just be consistent here. If you're giving an offer early, you should back it up. I know we complain about kids changing their minds but they are kids. How old is our coach?? If we're bringing in a "monster" class do we really need the PR nightmare? We could have just passed on the lowest rated of the girls Coach M really wanted and honored this scholarship. Someone has to ride the pine anyway. Just something to think about.

PS Common sense tells you that this story has a hard kernel of truth. An early offer, too many good recruits coming in and a coach trying to figure out how to play the numbers. But yeah, it must be the paper making stuff up.......

[JaMarcus Russell]

But yeah, it must be the paper making stuff up.......

No, but the paper makes it seem as if this is unprecedented action on Duke's part. A simple two sentence explanation about how common this is (along with the practice of yanking scholarships of under-performing players and "encouraging" them to transfer or take a medical hardship for a paper cut) would at least give it a proper context, as much as I think McCallie's actions show poor leadership on her part.

[77devil]

I haven't seen much from Coach McCallie, since she arrived at the Gothic Wonderland, that impressed me. Duke should be able to do better. We'll have to see if she can deliver with this recruiting class.

[killerleft]

The reaction of some on this board remind me of some of the press after the LAX charges. Firm opinion and criticism prior to having facts.

Bingo! We have a winner.

[allenmurray]

I feel Duke may have handled it the best it could, except . . . I still wonder why McCallie didn't make the call herself. It seems cowardly to have had someone else make the call.

[JaMarcus Russell]

I haven't seen much from Coach McCallie, since she arrived at the Gothic Wonderland, that impressed me. Duke should be able to do better.

If you don't mind explaining just a little bit, what are the main complaints about McCallie? I know Coach G was very highly thought of, so in what areas does McCallie fall short?

[Tappan Zee Devil]

I haven't seen much from Coach McCallie, since she arrived at the Gothic Wonderland, that impressed me. Duke should be able to do better. We'll have to see if she can deliver with this recruiting class.

Hey guy, Gail ain't comin back. Move on.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I bet that right now in many many college football programs across America the coaches are trying to decide which players will never make it and need to be somehow run off the squad so they can have the scholarship for next year.

If Roy Williams called a recruit to say that he just got a commitment from Harrison Barnes and therefore you will probably never play for UNC so why don't you go elsewhere, then the NC newspapers would be saying how classy it was of Roy to be straight with the kid so he could go somewhere and play.

Watching the Duke/Coastal Carolina game today, ESPNU kept repeating on the scroll about a football player going to UCLA who had previously committed to Duke. Do you think the NC newspapers will have a story about how Coach Cut lost his "dream" player ?

Some college sports are big deals. Maybe too big. The coaches are very competitive people trying to do their best to win within the rules. This includes Duke woman's basketball.

SoCal

[JaMarcus Russell]

SoCalDukeFan, I agree with your general point. However, the main problem that I have is how the coaching staff handled it. They should have been more direct with the recruit. There was no reason to ignore her phone calls and have an assistant coach notify her a month before the early signing period.

If the staff had been completely candid with her once they realized that she wasn't Duke material, I think that there would have less hard feelings on the side of the recruit, and the family would have less incentive to go to a Charlotte paper with a dream story.

[buddy]

There are a lot of undercurrents in this story. Duke undoubtedly recruited her too soon, and may not have seen her play enough. And it is true that McCallie has (supposedly) a monster class coming in, so that a "project" may no longer have been worth the effort. By the girl's own admission she did not play well in AAU last summer. The "light bulb" comments tell me the girl has size, but not necessarily skill, and hasn't yet figured out how to be a force.

Duke mishandled the initial recruitment, and probably mishandled the "kiss off", but at least they were honest with the girl before she got to campus. She had a choice to make--go to Duke for free and not play, or go somewhere else and play. If her dream really was a Duke education, she would have taken the scholarship.

Before we beat up too bad on Duke, let's remember that this girl has learned a very valuable life lesson at a very early stage. People don't always treat on another right. Promises are not always kept. Opportunities sometimes turn out to be dead ends. If she wants to play, she still has the opportunity. It's not like Duke is preventing her from playing college hoops.

[-bdbd]

Originally Posted by miramar View Post
To add to the Calipari comparison, I also remember what we were saying about Isiah a few months back when he had an assistant call some recruits to tell them that FIU was no longer interested (basically because Isiah was lining up better players).

While there are two sides to every story, I just hope this situation never repeats itself.



Interesting comparison. To me, the Duke situation is much worse. My guess is recruits almost expect some "revisiting" when there's a coaching change... (not that it's right.)

Given that McCallie is not new, it makes this approach that much more unacceptable.

I couldn't disagree more Diablesseblu. A SCHOOL has made a commitment to those UK (and UNC) players who were then essentially fired by a new coach/staff. That is unethical pure and simple, and really leaves the kid "out on the street" (I assume the kid wouldn't need to wait a year if they xfer at that point but I could be mistaken - making it even more unfair). But to say that one school, which is clearly honoring its $200K scholarship offer to Watkins, is worse than the the one dumping the kids on the street, that is just absurd.

A couple other thoughts on the broader discussion issue:
(1) The Charlotte paper has long had a rep as a strong faded-blue-lensed propaganda vessel. This appears to be a real hatchet job to some degree. The editor reportedly claiming that he has to "write for his (Tarheel) audience" is, in my my, unethical as a reporter of the news. If you are going to be so blatantly biased in your coverage, then issue disclaimers on the front page before anyone starts reading, expecting the truth, and clearly stating that your paper isn't intended to provide accurate reporting, but rather is a Carolina-tinted propaganda vehicle. As someone who used to work in the media, I find this aspect of the "business" to be very distressing (and yet the 'holes fans still want to decry Duke "getting unfair coverage!" Sheesh!).

(2) The story is very clearly one-sided. Even if you set aside the biased slant to the reporting, you are only seeing the situation through the eyes of Watkins' family. I'm sure that they are solid people - no reason to think otherwise - but human nature being what it is, they are likely only repeating aspects of the story that are favorable to their view and, frankly, only heard things from one perspective. In other words, would it change anyone's view of the Duke staff's guilt if, in fact, the coaches had several times warned her that that if she didn't improve her aggressiveness that she wouldn't get on the floor much/any (and that is what she is referring to as "repeated coaching to get more aggressive")? And if, in fact, those inputs actually came many months earlier?? Or if the scholarship was given with the statement that "we expect you to put in a lot of time/effort getting better, more aggressive, better at X, Y, Z"...and that she hadn't actually done any of that time/effort, etc. We simply don't know, b/c we only heard one side of the story.

(3) I am not going to pretend that the story isn't hard to hear in a way that spins well for the Duke WBB staff. But another angle the paper could have taken, if it actually had a PRO-Duke bias (i.e. the opposite of what it really is), the headline could have read "Duke University Remains Committed to $200K Scholarship and Roster Spot to Underachieving Player (despite her lack of development, effort/improvement) and who likely will never develop to earn playing time." I'm just saying there's two ways to look at everything. And, in fact, in a couple years, once the dust settles, the family will probably agree that it was for the best, and that she was ultimately happier going to Vandy or Davidson or wherever and actually getting to play a lot. That said, I do wish this had apparently been handled better -- even if they did honor her scholly offer. .

(4) Interestingly, one of the reader comments in the Charlotte paper actually pointed out that essentially the same thing had happened over the last few years to about a dozen UNC football players - with the transition of coaching staffs and existing players being forced out for nonexistent "medical" or other ridiculous justifications to remove their scholarships - yet the Charlotte Observer waited until it found one such incident against Duke to write such a story... Getting the sense of a pattern here?? The fact of the matter is that this, unfortunately, is really not all that uncommon in D1 college sports today. Personally, I think there's just too much money involved for it, realistically, to be hardly any other way. Sadly...

Best advice: be very aware that you are only hearing ONE side of the story here, and take the "spin" with a grain of salt.

(5) Last thought, given this story coming out like this - want to be this article gets shown to other recruits by competing coaches??? - this should force the Duke WBB staff to be extra careful going forward to avoid these sorts of situations happening again. At least I hope that's the case!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

The Duke staff obviously knew they did not want her when she talked to Coach McCallie on October 1st. McCallie could have told her then.

It's beyond me why they waited to tell Ms. Watkins the whole story about their lack of continued interest in her. Anyone who has parented an adolescent through the college application minefield knows how dreadful it would be to have this happen in October of one's senior year. For those of us who have spent our careers as admissions professionals, this seems especially insensitive on the Duke staff's part.

Yes, the WBB staff may have followed the "letter of the law" with regards to Ms. Watkin's scholarship offer. However, my expectations of Duke coaches are a bit different. I might expect this of a couple of coaches in the ACC..... but not Duke's.

As and outsider looking in...

Agreed. Way too late in the process and very insensitive to the student athlete.

This looks like a veiled attempt for a staff, who apparently made an early evaluation mistake, to pressure a committed player to drop the scholarship.

While the "letter of the law" may have been followed, it does appear like something that would be expected of a (insert mens coach you know I'm talking about here) deciple and all about trying to keep up with the UCONN's and Tennesee's of the world.

Does Duke really need to do things like this?

This staff needs to take the "offers" they extend a lot more seriously, and Duke fans might consider letting the staff know you expect, demand, better from them.

Just my$.02.

[CLT Devil]

Wheat, I think you'd do well to re-read BDBD's post more closely.

A) These things happen all the time; see when Davis, Butch took over the FBall program at your school (or at least the school you are a fan of).

B) The CO sat on this article for months, waiting for the right time to publish it...typical for such a rag that it is

C) From what I gather, the coaching staff took it very seriously, but the recruit has to hold up their end of the bargain and work on areas of their game as well. Apparently this did not happen.

The Observer would have lauded Roy for his 'honesty' in a similar situation. And when you say "Does Duke need to do things like this?" - Do you think the whole school somehow got together and decided to tell this girl she could come to Duke on full scholly but would likely not see playing time, or was it the Coach's decision?

It reminds me of getting into both UNC and Duke as a seior in High School. I got in early attendance at UNC (fallback school) and they were very clear that they expected me to keep my grades up (similar to the girl continuing to improve her game) or else my acceptance was not a sure thing. Plus, I had a partial academic scholly to UNC. If I had made straight F's my senior year, I would have nobody to blame but myself for not getting the scholarship, or having my acceptance rejected. I actually had a friend who did not get in because of his grades slipping over his senior year...how is this any different, other than the fact that Duke was saying they would still allow one to come, and pay for it, regardless of the recruit/student held up their end of the bargain?

I don't think 'being an outsider looking in' has anything to do with this. It happens in the UNC Football program (Davis, Butch) and just about every school out there. The only difference is Duke is still honoring her scholly...how upset can you really be?

Lastly, it is still the EARLY signing period...if she really is that good I'm sure there are plenty of places she would fit in. This is one of those situations where there was no good ending possible; The girl is not as good as projected, she could either ride the pine and get a great education or go somewhere else and play. Would you rather have options or be surprised?

[Regenman]

So it looks like we're using Gary Williams as a role model for recruiting?

Really??

She was asked to improve and she played on the AAU circuit. She admitted that it was rough. However, I don't see how posters here can blame her for "lack of effort". How do you know she didn't try? Why don't you blame the coaches for "poor evaluation".

And this BS about it's only the early signing period and she can find a place later. Most programs try to fill up by the early signing period. Her options have been severely curtailed.

When Duke offered me a scholarship, there was no "written" contingency that I had to get better. As for the UNC comparison, this game is played all the time with EXISTING scholarships where players are not renewed. It's quite different withdrawing a scholarship from a kid in high school (unless (like at Texas) where the kid commits and starts looking elsewhere--in which case, Mack Brown is known to have withdrawn his offer)).

[allenmurray]

There is a lot of "everybody else does this all the time" in this thread. A big part of the reason i am a duke fan is that duke generally aspires higher than "being just like everybody else", not just in basketball, but in how it conducts itself as a program. When thje program reaches a point where "everybody else does it" justifies poor behavior the program has lost what makes it special.

[RepoMan]

The thing is, nobody really knows enough about the relevant facts to have a meaningful opinion, yet the debate goes on. (And, you are not likely to hear any sort of "response" from Duke because there is no way to respond without making the situation worse.)

[SoCalDukeFan]

SoCalDukeFan, I agree with your general point. However, the main problem that I have is how the coaching staff handled it. They should have been more direct with the recruit. There was no reason to ignore her phone calls and have an assistant coach notify her a month before the early signing period.

If the staff had been completely candid with her once they realized that she wasn't Duke material, I think that there would have less hard feelings on the side of the recruit, and the family would have less incentive to go to a Charlotte paper with a dream story.

Do you really think how the coaching staff handled it is worthy of a story?

Also we do not know all of the facts and there are two sides to every story. When Mike Garrett fired John Robinson as head USC footlball coach he did it via voicemail. Sounds pretty bad. However Robinson was not coming into the office and was not answering his phone. Garrett left multiple messages on Robinson's home phone which were not returned then fired him so he could get on with hiring the next coach.

To me the main points are that women's college basketball is now big time which is why this young woman was going to get a scholarship in the first place. Since it is big time, this stuff will happen. It has happened and continues to happen in men's sports and it is not that big a deal. If she choses wisely she will get a scholarship and will get to play basketball at a fine college. She could go to Duke and not play. Her parents will not have to pay for her education. Thousands would like to be in her shoes.

SoCal

[RPS]

Since I have a child who is a D1 athlete in a revenue sport, I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective.

1. The biggest problem is the systemic one. Overall, the schools hold nearly all the cards. They are not required to honor scholarship promises and often over-recruit (see, e.g., Saban, Nick). Once the LOI is signed and accepted, the student is stuck with the choice, even if s/he was misled in the process (see, e.g., Hughes, Jerry, though that story turned out well). In revenue sports, a player has to sit-out a year upon transferring, no matter the circumstances -- change in situation, change in coaches, recruited over, lied to, etc.; the Eliot Williams situation is essentially unique. The D1 ADs have even dropped the graduate transfer rule, which means that athletes now need a hardship waiver (see, e.g., Paulus, Greg) to go to graduate school at another institution if they have eligibility left and want to keep playing. Note that these restrictions even apply to walk-on players once they're in school. Schools rule.

2. By all appearances (it may be that we're missing some crucial facts, even though the thrust of the story rings true), the Duke coaching staff handled this very poorly. They misevaluated the player, underestimated the quality of the class they could bring in, or both, and then tried to get her to walk away by ignoring her and then, when that didn't work, by telling her she wasn't wanted or needed (despite all the earlier love) very late in the game. As others have pointed out, the HC's failure to step-up and make the call is particularly galling. It's easy to be cynical about the process (we were lied to consistently and constantly throughout), but players and their families (not to mention alumni) want to believe that their school is different. It's wrong to expect the player or the family to figure out that the interest has cooled and that the school's earlier promises no longer apply. We'd all like to think that Duke is different, but in this case we weren't.

3. All that said, the coaching staff is in a tough spot. If they don't recruit well enough and win enough, they'll be fired. It won't matter that they played by the rules and honored all their commitments.

[77devil]

If you don't mind explaining just a little bit, what are the main complaints about McCallie? I know Coach G was very highly thought of, so in what areas does McCallie fall short?

Well, there was the Emily Waner situation and the free fall toward the end of McCallie's first season when the team essentially gave up on her. And last year's team underperformed, IMO, for all it's senior laden talent. But like I indicated before, Coach McCallie has to be evaluated ultimately based upon her players on the floor. We'll have to wait and see.


Hey guy, Gail ain't comin back. Move on.

I made no such inference. Is that your hang up?