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wandalee
11-13-2009, 10:44 PM
I was very disappointed at Cameron tonight. I've been a season ticket holder for at least 20 years. Cameron has had ads on signs for years. But tonight, we had to listen to ads during halftime (from WTVD and Time Warner). And the opening lineup was the "Jersey Mike's Opening Lineup". I hate that Duke has sold out to the advertisers.

Also, Duke has changed to opening lineup announcement. For the UNCG, Dr Chandler announced the players, as usual. But for Duke, we had to experience a taped announcement of each Duke starter. The announcer exaggerated every syllable of each person's name. It was very pro-like. No one around me liked it.

I'll be complaining to Dr White on Monday!

jjasper0729
11-13-2009, 10:49 PM
unfortunately, it's not going to change this year. it's the "keralina-fication" of cameron. This is the kind of stuff they do in the dome. I'm for the old school. There's no school like Old School (see the Palestra or the candy striped IU warm ups). we have a pep band.. why do we need to play techno crap during pre-game. we have a pa announcer... why do we need to MSG the warmups...

chrisheery
11-13-2009, 10:57 PM
Some people might point to this inability to adjust to change as one of the reasons that Duke has had a hard time selling elite athletes on its program recently. It is possible to bend without breaking. Make small changes but maintain the high standards of Duke in other areas. It may just be the nature of the beast in the current landscape of college basketball.

MHTorringjan
11-13-2009, 11:08 PM
Meh, Chris, I feel that your comment belongs in the Harrison Barnes thread, as it seems a reaction to that news. I'd dispute your assessment of Duke's inability to attract elite athletes, and suggest that that you should take it up with Kyrie Irving and see what he thinks. We're not going to get all of the recruits, it's virtually impossible for any single program to do that, especially in the world where men's college basketball is coming to somewhat of an equilibrium. When any school really can beat any other school on a given day, it's a lot harder to sell based on name alone.

FWIW, I agree that taped announcements with "NBA-STYLEZZZ" introductions are not in particularly good taste and I'd hope that the athletics department would go back to the old way of introducing the players. It's more humanistic or something like that. I appreciate the old-school way with its relatively quiet dignity. ;)

And Wanda, hopefully the atmosphere wouldn't be spoiled by just that, as the Crazies and the quality of the game are much more major components of the game-day experience at Cameron than the player introductions. ;)

M.H.

Bluedog
11-13-2009, 11:12 PM
Also, Duke has changed to opening lineup announcement. For the UNCG, Dr Chandler announced the players, as usual. But for Duke, we had to experience a taped announcement of each Duke starter. The announcer exaggerated every syllable of each person's name. It was very pro-like. No one around me liked it.

The announcer is Michael Buffer, the famous ring announcer from boxing whose catchphrase is "Let's get ready to rumble!" Not saying that makes it any better; just letting you know.

Duvall
11-13-2009, 11:13 PM
Some people might point to this inability to adjust to change as one of the reasons that Duke has had a hard time selling elite athletes on its program recently.

Some people might point to this? No, I'm pretty sure no one has ever pointed to this, unless you are now the first.

Pre-game announcements, good God.

chrisheery
11-13-2009, 11:15 PM
Well, MH, when you become a moderator, please let me know. My comments are a direct response to the statement posted as the topic of this thread.

I am not saying I like the new introductions. I am not saying it is true that Duke cannot get elite athletes. I am only saying that some would argue that the "stuffy" perception of Duke has not and will not help get more top recruits to come to Duke.

chrisheery
11-13-2009, 11:16 PM
Some people might point to this? No, I'm pretty sure no one has ever pointed to this, unless you are now the first.

Pre-game announcements, good God.

Really? Then why, exactly, do you think Duke (and Coach K) have taken on this approach this year? Why did we have CTC with skits that were, at best, borderline embarrassing? I'll let you figure that out for yourself.

OZZIE4DUKE
11-13-2009, 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by chrisheery http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=330431#post330431)
Some people might point to this inability to adjust to change as one of the reasons that Duke has had a hard time selling elite athletes on its program recently.


Some people might point to this? No, I'm pretty sure no one has ever pointed to this, unless you are now the first.

Pre-game announcements, good God.
I hate Michael Buffer and I hate his announcing Duke players. If that's what someone thought it would take to get Harrison Barnes, and obviously it didn't work, screw it and that philosophy.

Everyone write to Dr. White and Coach K. Let's see if we can get this changed.

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 11:21 PM
Some people might point to this? No, I'm pretty sure no one has ever pointed to this, unless you are now the first.

Pre-game announcements, good God.

Yikes, if Duke is resorting to Michael Buffer to impress recruits, the program is truly in the wilderness.

I have yet to make my first visit to Cameron, so I can't really comment on the atmosphere. But if Duke being different is really a problem, well, does Duke really want to be like every other arena? Is the problem such that Duke stops being Duke?

dukemsu

chrisheery
11-13-2009, 11:22 PM
For what its worth, I also agree that the pregame announcements suck. I was just putting forth the reasoning for why they were introduced this year. At least, that is the reasoning I have heard from various sources that makes the most sense to me.

Other reasons I could imagine:

1. Coach K loves them (doubt it)
2. The Olympic experience has really gotten Coach K to love everything NBA (doubt it)
3. Honestly, I can't even come up with a 3. Anyone come up with a better possible explanation for why they would make this change. Otherwise, I will assume it was the reason I described above. (Which I think is silly, by the way)

airowe
11-14-2009, 12:28 AM
They do them because the players like them. Like it or not, they're the reason why we all show up.

chrisheery
11-14-2009, 12:38 AM
They do them because the players like them. Like it or not, they're the reason why we all show up.

And keeping the players happy has a lot to do with recruiting. Right?

Duke4life92
11-14-2009, 12:58 AM
And Wanda, hopefully the atmosphere wouldn't be spoiled by just that, as the Crazies and the quality of the game are much more major components of the game-day experience at Cameron than the player introductions.

Amen :D,i personally could care less about the introductions but that's just me"to each their own".I enjoy the atmosphere of the game and all that comes thereafter.Once they throw the ball up til the final buzzer sounds it's a great time at CIS!!!

DukedOutTwins
11-14-2009, 01:21 AM
I agree with Wanda, my Cameron experience was less than I expected, but I would go again tomorrow if I could. It has been ten years since I have been a "crazy," but Michael Buffer, Jersey Mike's ads, a camera shy DeMarcus Nelson trying to cheer us on via jumbotron, and the techno music took some of the charm out of the 70 year old building.

Also, the "Crazies" and the band seemed off their game. Two key things were under-utilized. From 6:45 to 9:00p.m., the "Fight Blue Devils Fight" song was played ONCE!!!! "Devil with the Blue Dress" is great, but it's not the original fight song. Also, The chant "De-fense" (clap! clap!) was used twice.

Behind the basket, only a couple times were the Crazies in agreement on what to do during free throws. I hope this is just early season jitters, and they will get things worked out.

Having Michael Buffer do the starting line ups would have been cool back in 1995, or if he actually was IN THE BUILDING. Having a tape do the announcements is a insult to our intelligence and the original PA announcer. I love Michael Buffer's "let's get ready to rumble," but not for Duke Basketball. Nothing compares to the chill I get when I hear Dr. Chandler(?) says, "Here Comes Duke!"

I think some of the innovations are good, but I think some improvements need to be made. LOSE MICHAEL BUFFER, unless we can hire him to do announcements from center court, that would be cool! More fight song, more "de-fense" clap-clap, more crazy-coordination, more COWBELL just kidding.

Best inappropriate but funny cheer of the night, "You got czyz-ed on!" If that catches on, Coach K will axe it, but it will be fun while it lasts.

G T HLL CRLN!

PumpkinFunk
11-14-2009, 08:08 AM
Also, the "Crazies" and the band seemed off their game. Two key things were under-utilized. From 6:45 to 9:00p.m., the "Fight Blue Devils Fight" song was played ONCE!!!! "Devil with the Blue Dress" is great, but it's not the original fight song.

You missed us playing Fight, Blue Devils, Fight before that, first of all. And secondly... we generally use that song during pre-game and 30-second timeouts in the 2nd half, not much else. Sometimes a TV timeout in the 2nd half. I don't think we played it less than normal. We always play Devil at least 3 times when we win - 1 minute left on the pre-game clock, 1 minute left on the halftime clock, and at the end of the game when we win. We didn't do anything that differently from normal last night.

DevilWolf
11-14-2009, 08:17 AM
You missed us playing Fight, Blue Devils, Fight before that, first of all. And secondly... we generally use that song during pre-game and 30-second timeouts in the 2nd half, not much else. Sometimes a TV timeout in the 2nd half. I don't think we played it less than normal. We always play Devil at least 3 times when we win - 1 minute left on the pre-game clock, 1 minute left on the halftime clock, and at the end of the game when we win. We didn't do anything that differently from normal last night.

^ I want to be sick of hearing that song after today's football game. :-)

wandalee
11-14-2009, 10:02 AM
I'll still be going to all the games, but it may be tempting to arrive just after the player announcements!!!

Ima Facultiwyfe
11-14-2009, 10:29 AM
...around our section was a big groan at the canned introductions. The guy behind me said "if he yells 'let's get ready to rumble' I'll throw up". Buffer did and I ducked!

The main problem with it all is that it's already so old,out of date and corny. We've come to expect Cameron to be inventive and ahead of the curve, so it's no wonder we are disappointed.

That being said, I was happy to see Cameron pretty full and on task....both on the floor and in the stands. The energy was there if not yet the coordination. The absence of cheer sheets means that the students will have to get their act together and pay attention all around them in order to come up with the great cheers we used to get before the sheets spoiled the spontaneity and creativity in recent years.

Go to hell, Carolina. Let's have fun this year!
Love, Ima

Cavlaw
11-14-2009, 10:39 AM
This turn of events does sound disappointing. I appreciate the traditional charm of Cameron. Sometimes updates are good, but not always.

Lord Ash
11-14-2009, 11:08 AM
Can I ask; to whom would we address letters to complain about this?

MHTorringjan
11-14-2009, 11:17 AM
Well, MH, when you become a moderator, please let me know. My comments are a direct response to the statement posted as the topic of this thread.

I am not saying I like the new introductions. I am not saying it is true that Duke cannot get elite athletes. I am only saying that some would argue that the "stuffy" perception of Duke has not and will not help get more top recruits to come to Duke.

Hey, now, wasn't trying to play moderator, merely trying to point out that your assessment of Duke's inability to pull in elite players is in conflict with our just having gotten Kyrie Irving, and that it seemed like a knee-jerk reaction to the earlier news of the day. Sorry if I came off as playing moderator, really wasn't trying to. :(

grossbus
11-14-2009, 12:44 PM
canned intros??

have to say that i don't like the sound of that...and if i actually heard it, i am certain i wouldn't like the sound of it.

DukeDevilDeb
11-14-2009, 12:54 PM
Can I ask; to whom would we address letters to complain about this?

I think the two logical people to whom to complain are Coach K and Kevin White, the Athletic Director (aka the new Joe Alleva).

Coach K's e-mail is easily found in the Duke directory.

Does anyone except me find it odd that Kevin White has no official Duke e-mail address listed? :mad:

One could ordinarily assume that it would be kevin.white@duke.edu. However, that is the e-mail address of a PA at Duke. Let's not load his e-mail!

lpd1982
11-14-2009, 12:58 PM
Oh for the love of God, did you guys just tune in? Half that stuff was created for Countdown to Craziness which was, by all accounts, an amazing event that, as Coach K said, was developed so the players and students could have fun. Remember that, fun? Since the investment was made to have the announcer (by the way, do you even know who that is...if not, ask one of your kids or grandkids, they will tell you why it is such a perfect idea) the department dedcided to make use of it. The players love it, the students love it, because they 'get it'. This smacks a bit of,"when I was a kid I walked ten miles to school." Times a changin. Get with the progam.

LanceChef
11-14-2009, 01:31 PM
Had my first game in the upper deck last night, and there were quite a few Iron Dukes upset. The best quote was from someone voicing concern, sarcastically I hope, that K would use his championship rings as a plug for Jareds on the scoreboard. The return of Michael Buffer with our old announcer back behind the mic was disgraceful as well.

Also, for those following the theory that Duke hired the same firm as Wake Forest for these "changes", Zombie Nation just played during a GT timeout in the football game. Looks like the tye-dye is not far behind.

As a soon-to-be-done grad student, I'm certainly not a heavy hitter. However, can some of the other members of this board suggest where I go to have my voice heard?

LanceChef
11-14-2009, 01:34 PM
Also, for those suggesting that the students love it, did FSS show the streaming of folks out of the undergrad section at halftime? It was certainly one of the bigger exits I've seen in my time at Duke (and quite unfortunate).

lpd1982
11-14-2009, 01:51 PM
FSS showed a packed stadium and according to Coach Ks presser, it was one of the best attended, loudest season openers in his tenure. 1,700 students vs. less than 500 for same time last year. I have checked and it appears that you alone saw a mass exit. Not saying it didn't happen, just saying those I have asked have looked at me like I was the Crazy. You are the single source on this observation.

stillcrazie
11-14-2009, 01:54 PM
I really don't care about the whole announcement thing. What concerned me last night was how slow the team was compared to UNCG. I was standing not far behind the bench and could read the words "f***ing slow!" on K's lips during one time out. He was not happy, even though he was very positive in the post-game interviews.

We'll see if it makes a difference when Nolan gets back, but the element that was really missing for me was the excitement over the one guy you knew had the potential to do something great when he had the ball, e.g. Redick, Nelson, Henderson.

There were also many times, as someone noted above, when we got the ball back and could have thrown an outlet pass or gone on a fast break and instead slowed the game down and allowed their defense to get set. I'd like the long pass or backdoor cut on occasion.

LanceChef
11-14-2009, 02:24 PM
It was crowded at tip, but at least the back three rows of the undergrad section left at the half filled in by a shift from the left corner off the main camera at center court. From my understanding, it was also Greek night, so that likely was the cause of the inflated opening attendance numbers, the holes at half time, and the periodic "bulls**t" chant. Regardless, these new changes didn't appear to interest the new crowd any more than the old but did manage to ruffle the feathers of current ticketholders.

stillcrazie
11-14-2009, 02:51 PM
It was crowded at tip, but at least the back three rows of the undergrad section left at the half filled in by a shift from the left corner off the main camera at center court. From my understanding, it was also Greek night, so that likely was the cause of the inflated opening attendance numbers, the holes at half time, and the periodic "bulls**t" chant. Regardless, these new changes didn't appear to interest the new crowd any more than the old but did manage to ruffle the feathers of current ticketholders.

I did see a lot of movement at halftime but assumed people were going to the restroom, snack bar, etc.

El_Diablo
11-14-2009, 03:17 PM
Also, for those suggesting that the students love it, did FSS show the streaming of folks out of the undergrad section at halftime? It was certainly one of the bigger exits I've seen in my time at Duke (and quite unfortunate).

Yeah, students were so peeved at the player intros that they waited until halftime to leave. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Or...maybe they wanted some concessions...???

Newton_14
11-14-2009, 04:05 PM
We'll see if it makes a difference when Nolan gets back, but the element that was really missing for me was the excitement over the one guy you knew had the potential to do something great when he had the ball, e.g. Redick, Nelson, Henderson.

.

So Kyle Singler scoring from a variety of ways all over the court and looking very much like a Player of The Year candidate was not impressive to you? Because to be perfectly honest he is a better player than all 3 you mentioned above and I am one of the biggest JJ fans on earth. Singler is one of the most complete players to ever wear the Duke uniform and I am always expecting him to "do something great" every time the ball is in his hands...

DukedOutTwins
11-14-2009, 04:44 PM
You missed us playing Fight, Blue Devils, Fight before that, first of all. And secondly... we generally use that song during pre-game and 30-second timeouts in the 2nd half, not much else. Sometimes a TV timeout in the 2nd half. I don't think we played it less than normal. We always play Devil at least 3 times when we win - 1 minute left on the pre-game clock, 1 minute left on the halftime clock, and at the end of the game when we win. We didn't do anything that differently from normal last night.

Ok, I forgive the band for not playing Fight Blue Devils fight. I guess "game circumstance" didn't work out for you to play it more often.

Back to Wanda's point of "selling out" to advertisers. Duke Youth Football Day is geared to Christian (mostly United Methodist) Church groups with a speaker or the band giving a Christian message before or after the game. To my dismay, I went last year to discover that Duke Football Youth Day was "sponsored by McDonald's." Since when did Jesus need a title sponsor?

That is all.

SharkD
11-14-2009, 05:45 PM
I think the two logical people to whom to complain are Coach K and Kevin White, the Athletic Director (aka the new Joe Alleva).

Coach K's e-mail is easily found in the Duke directory.

Does anyone except me find it odd that Kevin White has no official Duke e-mail address listed? :mad:

kwhite@duaa.duke.edu

via: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1480786&

stillcrazie
11-14-2009, 05:54 PM
So Kyle Singler scoring from a variety of ways all over the court and looking very much like a Player of The Year candidate was not impressive to you? Because to be perfectly honest he is a better player than all 3 you mentioned above and I am one of the biggest JJ fans on earth. Singler is one of the most complete players to ever wear the Duke uniform and I am always expecting him to "do something great" every time the ball is in his hands...

I love Singler and he's clearly the best player we have and possibly the best in the league. He's iimpressive as hell. He and Gerald made a great duo -- they were able to make different kinds of plays. All I am saying is I miss the unexpected, explosiveness of a crazy 3 launched from somewhere ridiculous, or the possibility of an insane dunk over three people, that sort of thing, along with Kyle's steady, workmanlike precision.

wandalee
11-14-2009, 06:30 PM
In addition to Kevin White, I would also contact Jack Winters of Iron Dukes(irondukes@duaa.duke.edu). It couldn't hurt to contact Coach K, too.

blazindw
11-14-2009, 06:35 PM
Also, for those suggesting that the students love it, did FSS show the streaming of folks out of the undergrad section at halftime? It was certainly one of the bigger exits I've seen in my time at Duke (and quite unfortunate).

Those were kids going to get drinks, etc. at halftime. The stands were completely full for both halves.


FSS showed a packed stadium and according to Coach Ks presser, it was one of the best attended, loudest season openers in his tenure. 1,700 students vs. less than 500 for same time last year. I have checked and it appears that you alone saw a mass exit. Not saying it didn't happen, just saying those I have asked have looked at me like I was the Crazy. You are the single source on this observation.

450 undergrad students were turned away last night due to a completely full section. Different kind of crowd given that it was Greek night, but it was full nonetheless.

devil84
11-14-2009, 06:44 PM
The canned intros didn't set well with me or the people in my section, either. This includes six-figure donors, former team members, current college students (not at Duke) who have been Duke fans for most/all of their lives, and long (33+ years) and short (3+ year) season ticket holders.

If the students like it so much, why were they not cheering wildly during them? Most of us upstairs weren't sure when or how to cheer, and it seemed like the students had the same problem. When it's just Dr. Chandler, we know to let him say the name while we cheer, then turn up the volume. Just when do you cheer during JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNN SHEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR ? Besides, with the volume of that thing, we can cheer all we want, but nobody will hear. Our complaint upstairs (aside from ""it's so NOT Cameron" or "it's so 90s") was that it took the Crazies out of the intros.

Same with the alumni/Olympic team videos during time outs. OK, so we WERE cheering something, now we're supposed to look at the scoreboard...do we cheer over one of our players who is addressing us? No. But it's getting quiet in Cameron. Long awkward silence while video plays. Pause, then a cheer finally starts. It takes the Crazies out of the game. Just give us the last few seconds of those videos, the part where our beloved alumni (or Olympian) say "Let's Go Duke." Have a 3-5 second video to start our cheers coming out of a time out -- that would really get us fired up. But don't let those videos EVER stop the cheering in Cameron. EVER.

wandalee
11-14-2009, 06:56 PM
Amen, Devil84. But I really think all of us that are not happy with the canned intro need to let Duke know about it. Otherwise, it will continue.

OZZIE4DUKE
11-14-2009, 08:16 PM
In addition to Kevin White, I would also contact Jack Winters of Iron Dukes(irondukes@duaa.duke.edu). It couldn't hurt to contact Coach K, too.
Jack Winters is no longer the head honcho of the Iron Dukes, he's been promoted to an Assistant AD position. Kevin Beaty is.
ebeaty@duaa.duke.edu

billy
11-14-2009, 11:16 PM
Not sure if this has anything to do with the Vegas style intros or not, but, on the football radio-cast I think they mentioned that this would be Dr. Chandler's last season doing the courtside announcing. This may have something to do with the new intros, either because he may not want to be associated with them philosophically or, possibly, that they are necessary because he can't do them anymore (I have no knowledge to suggest the latter, purely conjecture).

blazindw
11-14-2009, 11:29 PM
Not sure if this has anything to do with the Vegas style intros or not, but, on the football radio-cast I think they mentioned that this would be Dr. Chandler's last season doing the courtside announcing. This may have something to do with the new intros, either because he may not want to be associated with them philosophically or, possibly, that they are necessary because he can't do them anymore (I have no knowledge to suggest the latter, purely conjecture).

Or maybe, it's because he's been doing it for a while and thinks it's a good time for him to retire and/or pursue other opportunities.

SoCalDukeFan
11-15-2009, 12:22 AM
I was very disappointed at Cameron tonight. I've been a season ticket holder for at least 20 years. Cameron has had ads on signs for years. But tonight, we had to listen to ads during halftime (from WTVD and Time Warner). And the opening lineup was the "Jersey Mike's Opening Lineup". I hate that Duke has sold out to the advertisers.

Also, Duke has changed to opening lineup announcement. For the UNCG, Dr Chandler announced the players, as usual. But for Duke, we had to experience a taped announcement of each Duke starter. The announcer exaggerated every syllable of each person's name. It was very pro-like. No one around me liked it.

I'll be complaining to Dr White on Monday!

since I saw at Duke.

I would say if the players like the intros, then keep them. If not, dump them.

For what its worth, the U. of Southern California has the new ( 3 year old) Galen Center for basketball and some other sports. When an USC player hits a big 3 or makes a dunk, they can go wild with the player's name in lights. I thought it was probably a great recruiting idea.

On another note, I am tired of ads everywhere.

SoCal

Jumbo
11-15-2009, 12:42 AM
Oh for the love of God, did you guys just tune in? Half that stuff was created for Countdown to Craziness which was, by all accounts, an amazing event that, as Coach K said, was developed so the players and students could have fun. Remember that, fun? Since the investment was made to have the announcer (by the way, do you even know who that is...if not, ask one of your kids or grandkids, they will tell you why it is such a perfect idea) the department dedcided to make use of it. The players love it, the students love it, because they 'get it'. This smacks a bit of,"when I was a kid I walked ten miles to school." Times a changin. Get with the progam.

If you're suggesting that Michael Buffer somehow is symbolic of, or appeals to, "youth," I think you are clearly mistaken. The dude is old. The dude has been played out for a decade. The dude's schtick was tired by the time "Jock Jams" was released ... in 1995. The dude is now fully qualified to receive Social Security (seriously, he turned 65 a couple of weeks ago).

You're making a lot of faulty assumptions above, especially since the complaints in this thread have come from people of a variety of ages and backgrounds. If the team likes Michael Buffer, so be it. But I imagine the team might like some other alternatives, too. If Duke's going to make a change, be bold about it -- find someone, something that is fresh. Otherwise, this just feels like, well, like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeS-Xb5u4-U).

lpd1982
11-15-2009, 01:37 AM
If you're suggesting that Michael Buffer somehow is symbolic of, or appeals to, "youth," I think you are clearly mistaken. The dude is old. The dude has been played out for a decade. The dude's schtick was tired by the time "Jock Jams" was released ... in 1995. The dude is now fully qualified to receive Social Security (seriously, he turned 65 a couple of weeks ago).

You're making a lot of faulty assumptions above, especially since the complaints in this thread have come from people of a variety of ages and backgrounds. If the team likes Michael Buffer, so be it. But I imagine the team might like some other alternatives, too. If Duke's going to make a change, be bold about it -- find someone, something that is fresh. Otherwise, this just feels like, well, like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeS-Xb5u4-U).

How can you say that I am making 'alot of faulty assumptions', when you go ahead and continue with what you are 'imagining.' I assure you that what I stated above are not faulty 'assumptions' but first hand knowledge. I did not say that the original poster was not entitled to personal dislikes. What I said was that some of the changes were designed for another purpose and because they were well received, were carried over. I get really tired of hearing about all the myriad changes our team, staff , etc SHOULD make , but every time they do make ANY changes they get hammered for it.

Acymetric
11-15-2009, 02:27 AM
Also, for those suggesting that the students love it, did FSS show the streaming of folks out of the undergrad section at halftime? It was certainly one of the bigger exits I've seen in my time at Duke (and quite unfortunate).

Yeah, I was at the game, and the mass exodus (to buy food) was followed by a mass return. Stadium was full until people started to leave to beat traffic at the end of the game. There have been plenty of times to complain about attendance, but this game isn't one of them.

1999ballboy
11-15-2009, 04:55 AM
As a soon-to-be-done grad student, I'm certainly not a heavy hitter. However, can some of the other members of this board suggest where I go to have my voice heard?
I think grad students' voices could potentially hold a lot of sway, actually. Thing is, I don't actually think they expected most Iron Dukes-types to like the changes- I just don't think they cared. I think they tried to please the students and the overall younger sector of the crowd in attempt to preserve and improve the Cameron atmosphere. I'm pretty sure it's not working. My brother is an undergrad at Duke, and he and all of his friends who went to the game with him agreed- the "Ready to Rumble" thing has got to go. I am sure they will hear about this from many Crazies, grads and undergrads, and I think there is an excellent chance of the exaggerated intros, and Ready to Rumble, disappearing before the end of the season.

On a mostly unrelated note, Friday night was "Greek night"- they let students in frats and sororities in first instead of the normal line system. Cameron has never given preferential entry to any students to my knowledge, except for the campout games and Senior Day. And I don't think I like this much either. I haven't heard whether there will be any other games like this that would admit students from other organizations first, but it is a sure-fire way to attract students who don't normally go to games and therefore won't be as loud or clever or experienced in Cameron. That's why there's often a poor crowd on Senior Day. To compound things, I heard that there were some obscene chants Friday night that were not silenced nearly as quickly as usual (which, in Cameron, is usually very quick). I hope Friday night was the last of its kind.

DukeSince'77
11-15-2009, 07:14 AM
Next thing you know the Devil will be riding into Cameron on a Harley....

camion
11-15-2009, 07:40 AM
I think they'll be replacing the surf board with a jet ski. Ouch!! :eek:

Exiled_Devil
11-15-2009, 08:06 AM
Really? Then why, exactly, do you think Duke (and Coach K) have taken on this approach this year? Why did we have CTC with skits that were, at best, borderline embarrassing? I'll let you figure that out for yourself.

This is all an extension of reaching out to the press and the public to rebrand Duke Basketball.

As a rebranding, its a little experimental. DBB is dislodging its old image and trying to find a new one. The challenge with that is in order to do a good job, the new brand must be true to the people involved and also must be different enough from the old to make people see a change.

The video scoreboard has been in the works for some time. This wasn't a reaction to anything except the fact that our old scoreboard was 20 years out of date. With that new technology comes experiments in how to use it. I agree that some do not make the grade - the alumni videos fall flat during a normal game, for example - but others are great. I am very glad to have replay inside Cameron.

I also think that the videos and such are related to Coach K's comment about cheer sheets and Crazies getting more creative - the atmosphere in Cameron is being managed a little more by the staff because the Crazies are not living up to whatever metric that K has for their success.

Back to the implication that the new feel of Cameron is about recruits - that assertion misses the time frame of the change as well as the diverse nature of the target audience of DBB. Changes like this take more time than a reaction to a particular class of recruits would require. And the audience for this change isn't just recruits - its the Crazies, the Iron Dukes, sports media and the general public. Trying to make a brand that appeals across the board there will be problematic.

As for the ads, I think its inevitable. I really dislike it,too. But the old scorebaord had COKE plastered all over it, just not in lights. As long as the advertising doesn't interfere - I don't want Cameron to be like a pro stadium - then I can live with it. And if we sell naming rights, I will only accept "Bullocks" or "Lucky Strikes" indoor stadiums.

mike88
11-15-2009, 08:14 AM
Buffer's live introductions - OK (But I prefer Dr. Chandler)
Buffer's recorded introductions - bad

Jersey Mike's name on the score board - OK
Announcing the "Jersey Mike's starting line-ups" - awful

Pre-recorded video segments before the game - OK
Game highlights during in game timeouts - OK
Long greetings from former players / Olympians during the game - bad

lpd1982
11-15-2009, 08:30 AM
I think grad students' voices could potentially hold a lot of sway, actually. Thing is, I don't actually think they expected most Iron Dukes-types to like the changes- I just don't think they cared. I think they tried to please the students and the overall younger sector of the crowd in attempt to preserve and improve the Cameron atmosphere. I'm pretty sure it's not working. My brother is an undergrad at Duke, and he and all of his friends who went to the game with him agreed- the "Ready to Rumble" thing has got to go. I am sure they will hear about this from many Crazies, grads and undergrads, and I think there is an excellent chance of the exaggerated intros, and Ready to Rumble, disappearing before the end of the season.

On a mostly unrelated note, Friday night was "Greek night"- they let students in frats and sororities in first instead of the normal line system. Cameron has never given preferential entry to any students to my knowledge, except for the campout games and Senior Day. And I don't think I like this much either. I haven't heard whether there will be any other games like this that would admit students from other organizations first, but it is a sure-fire way to attract students who don't normally go to games and therefore won't be as loud or clever or experienced in Cameron. That's why there's often a poor crowd on Senior Day. To compound things, I heard that there were some obscene chants Friday night that were not silenced nearly as quickly as usual (which, in Cameron, is usually very quick). I hope Friday night was the last of its kind.

Cameron has given preferrential treatment in the past. Freshman night, senior night. These have been successful in terms of filling stands and so there are scheduled MANY theme nights for this year. Monday is freshman night, Tuesday is Club night. Greeks WERE NOT let in first. 400 lined up students were let in first , then Greeks who were pre registered, then anyone else. The ONLY people who were turned away lined up 45 minutes before game time. I think that those folks should not cry about not getting in. The stands were PACKED for the whole game according to fire marshalls and outside before there was msuic and grilling and if you go to Duke Blue Planet and listens to Coach K or hear his press conference post game, the department believes it was like the old Duke atmosphere. Please dont start rumors or share half information that could hurt the program at the beginning of the season. It serves no helpful purpose.

grossbus
11-15-2009, 08:43 AM
""Devil with the Blue Dress" is great, but it's not the original fight song."

actually, IIRC, neither is Fight, Blue Devils, Fight. The Blue and White is the fight song.

Duke76
11-15-2009, 09:03 AM
give me a break,...that would seriously be a collosal mistake,,next thing we hear is the tired suggestion that we tear down that "old gym" for a new 21st century stadium....while we're at it the new seating arrangements are silly too. Taking the students out from behind the official's table for financial supporters, imo is shortsighted.

Who has heard anyone complain about their Cameron experience, ever...before this year?

MHTorringjan
11-15-2009, 09:23 AM
On a mostly unrelated note, Friday night was "Greek night"- they let students in frats and sororities in first instead of the normal line system. Cameron has never given preferential entry to any students to my knowledge, except for the campout games and Senior Day. And I don't think I like this much either. I haven't heard whether there will be any other games like this that would admit students from other organizations first, but it is a sure-fire way to attract students who don't normally go to games and therefore won't be as loud or clever or experienced in Cameron. That's why there's often a poor crowd on Senior Day. To compound things, I heard that there were some obscene chants Friday night that were not silenced nearly as quickly as usual (which, in Cameron, is usually very quick). I hope Friday night was the last of its kind.

As a graduate student, I appreciate the show of support in your post. ;)

I actually agree with lpd on this one, the themed nights are an interesting way to get a wider population of students interested in the game. And while the particular population of students that was included in this one (frats) may have contributed to the obscene chants, the concept of getting more students interested and excited to go to a Duke Basketball game is more important, considering the dwindling student enthusiasm in the past couple of years (granted, winning another Natty would do a lot more, but the line monitors have a bit less control over that). I think that the theme night concept deserves some tweaking, but that it's overall a good idea.

And you have to remember that even though it said Frat night, not all of the students that were allowed in were from frats, there were only a certain number of seats that were reserved for frat members, and before the frats were let in, they let in some non-frat students who had been waiting for a while (if I understood the Chronicle stories detailing the plan correctly).

Rogue
11-15-2009, 09:40 AM
CHANGE,, the older we get, the slower we are to accept "some" of it. ( we sure like the internet )

MONEY,, the old saying, "follow the money" I feel is just as important.

In the 60's, it was an airplane with a Jessie Jones Sausage banner behind it, and you bought a program that was filled with advertisements. The scoreboard at Duke Wallace Wade was like a big clock with a sweeping hand that let us estimate the pending end of a game.
For some of us, change is hard, but it has to come. The youth of today visit schools, and sadly ,the hoopla is what impresses them. Seeing names in lights, smoke , ( maybe even a Harley lol , ) etc. The "crazies" have their place in helping bring in new recruites, and winning is huge.. but the youth of today is looking for more for some reason.. sad, but true. So as an older person I try to accept most of the changes,, even the long baggie pants that have been worn for the last decade and now we are use to.
See, it would drive most of us crazy if someone came out in uniform pants the length of Dick Groats..

Money.. sighhhhhhhhhhh.. it will cause change.. yes,, even the Jersey Mike introductions,, or what ever it is.. or who ever is advertising on the score board. etc etc.. IF someone can figure out how to sell something, make money in another way through sports at Wallace Wade or CID.. it will probably happen.

IRON DUKES carry a lot of weight.. but before they flex their will,, ask, do we want to stand still,, or possibly make mistakes and continue to move forward with the good choices,,( Not the canned intros lol ) or see our team in the uniforms of Dick Groat for ever and not accept change ..

1Devil
11-15-2009, 10:34 AM
I was at the UNCG game, having not attended a game for a year or two. I liked the Michael Buffer introductions...they were fun. But they will also grow stale before too long. Certainly before the end of this season.

What kind of shocked me was that there were no students at all on the side of Cameron behind the benches. They filled the other side and the endzone bleachers. Why is that? Is that punishment for poor attendance for the exhibition games or past seasons? Or is that just the way it is now? That's what made me want to retch.

Bluedog
11-15-2009, 10:56 AM
What kind of shocked me was that there were no students at all on the side of Cameron behind the benches. They filled the other side and the endzone bleachers. Why is that? Is that punishment for poor attendance for the exhibition games or past seasons? Or is that just the way it is now? That's what made me want to retch.

It's not punishment; they just re-arranged the seating. The grad students used to be in one endzone on that side, and those people have been moved to behind the basket next to the pep band. So the undergrads are filling in the void left by the grad section move (which was a good decision, IMO, but certainly had other consequences). Overall, the undergrad section size is the same...But they're instructed to sit on the same side of the court and the behind the benches seating has been designated for other attendees (like those that used to sit in the comfy blue chairs behind the basket)....

blazindw
11-15-2009, 11:01 AM
What kind of shocked me was that there were no students at all on the side of Cameron behind the benches. They filled the other side and the endzone bleachers. Why is that? Is that punishment for poor attendance for the exhibition games or past seasons? Or is that just the way it is now? That's what made me want to retch.

From what I've been told, there has been a reallocation of seats. Grad students now take the entire rest of the endline next to the band, in addition to their other seats on the other endline nearest the Duke bench. The u-grads essentially have just the entire TV side (in previous years, they had most of the TV side, but a sliver of it was reserved for the grad students). The non-TV side seems to be where the reserved seating that used to be next to the band has moved. The students have lost the buffer zone (area between students on the non-TV side and the opposing team's crowd) since there are no students on the non-TV side to buffer. So, it seems that the u-grad has lost just a few seats, but not much. The grad students have remained about the same, just some have been reallocated to form a wall on the other end of the court as well as their original base.

PumpkinFunk
11-15-2009, 11:21 AM
Those were kids going to get drinks, etc. at halftime. The stands were completely full for both halves.

Not quite. The edge of the student section nearest to the band/grad student side had some open space after halftime. I'd say at least 100 people left at the half.

uh_no
11-15-2009, 12:58 PM
FOr the record: coach K has said he would like there to be no ads at all in cameron, while thats nice, I'm sure kevin white has different ideas.

There were people that left at halftime....it happens.....

to the people complaining about the crazie: yeah they sucked.....but they stick at the beginning of the year every year mostly because there is a high percentage of freshman that don't know what was going on. this problem was excacerbated (/sp) last night with the multitudes of semi drunk greeks, many of whom had not been to many games

as for the greek night: several hundred people were let in regardless of affiliation, followed by the registered greeks followed by the rest of people...as an independent, i don't feel screwed....i just got there early to ensure I beat the frat rush

as to the michael buffer thing: the consensus on campus (as far as I can tell) is that no one gives a hoot....people are there for basketball and the basketball team is good....no one cares how they're introduced

i don't know why people are complaining about moving students from behind the scorers....it means grad students go behind the basket and we distract players for both halves....there were a few vocal undergrads in the spring....but most of them were complaining that they'd have to stand up for the whole game on the other side....poor things

as a whole, i'm disgusted with this thread. there are so many people on this board that come in and try to speak for the students...what they want, what is unfair, why they stink at cheering and are not on their game...it happens on football threads too....here's my advice to you......you do your job and let us do ours.

lpd1982
11-15-2009, 01:51 PM
"you do your job and let us do ours. "

yep.

sagegrouse
11-15-2009, 01:58 PM
...as an independent, i don't feel screwed....i just got there early to ensure I beat the frat rush



And I thought you were illiterate until I reached this sentence. Nice turn of a phrase.

sagegrouse

moonpie23
11-15-2009, 02:04 PM
I've been to a lot of games at CIS and was looking forward to seeing the new changes .

first, my son is in a wheelchair. We got there and the door person summoned over someone who exchanged our tickets for the "endzone" area. They escorted us to the back of three rows with the other wheelchair folks.

We came in kind of early and not many folks were there. Within 10 min of tipoff, the other two rows in front of us filled in and completely blocked my son from seeing anything...wait...i take that back, he could see the back of the backboard and Zub's head every once in a while.

I'm all for everyone having a good time and standing up to enjoy the game, but, when the folks behind you can't even SEE much less stand up to see over you, that's pretty thoughtless. I did not see one person turn around to even CHECK to see if they might be blocking the wheelchair folk's view. especially the person with the2 foot high mullet sitting in front of my son. my point......a better place to put the wheelchair folks...

onto the next rant. the moving of the crazies:

could they possibly made ANY single decision that took the unique-ness OUT of CIS as a fearsome place to play? i don't think so....this was a horrible move.... the Crazies still did their part, but the imtimidation factor on that is GONE....

The new scoreboard: who's running that thing? sheesh....where were the replays? oh, 5 mins later...

the scoreboard replays are very important for IMMEDIATE playback and "SEEEEEE I TOLD YOU HE TRAVELED !" factor....what's the use of having the hot new scoreboard if you're not going to take advantage of it?

i didn't mind the team introductions that much, actually they weren't very loud and really didn't have the effect intended...If you've ever been to an NBA game ( i mean, if you're LOOKING for the same effect)...It's MUCH more in-your-face.

i did hate the selling of the introduction lineup....what's next the "wendy's-substitution of the game?" the "mcdonald's crucial time out"? the "bojangles-face blistering from coach-k on a missed hot-dog dunk"?

yay...

the "testimonials" should only be run before the game and during time outs or half time......oh, and i didn't leave at halftime, i went to get popcorn.

from an audio perspective, i did notice that when they played a MUSIC cut, it seemed to be coming from all around CIS, but when the announcer was speaking, it seemed like it was coming from just the scoreboard. (diminishing the effect).....could be just where i was sitting. oh yeah, behind the mullet...

uh_no
11-15-2009, 03:07 PM
And I thought you were illiterate until I reached this sentence. Nice turn of a phrase.

sagegrouse


And, I learned that I should properly punctuate comments critiquing other's grammar on a message board.

uh_no
11-15-2009, 03:10 PM
I've been to a lot of games at CIS and was looking forward to seeing the new changes .

first, my son is in a wheelchair. We got there and the door person summoned over someone who exchanged our tickets for the "endzone" area. They escorted us to the back of three rows with the other wheelchair folks.
.


students don't usually sit in those seats.....

moonpie23
11-15-2009, 03:18 PM
students don't usually sit in those seats.....

oh, definitely not students......

sagegrouse
11-15-2009, 03:20 PM
i did hate the selling of the introduction lineup....what's next the "wendy's-substitution of the game?" the "mcdonald's crucial time out"? the "bojangles-face blistering from coach-k on a missed hot-dog dunk"?

..

If he returned to coaching, I would look forward to the Bobby Knght Taco Bell Temper Tantrum.

sagegrouse
'Sorry for your travails. Someone should talk to the ath. dept.'

moonpie23
11-15-2009, 03:26 PM
If he returned to coaching, I would look forward to the Bobby Knght Taco Bell Temper Tantrum.

sagegrouse
'Sorry for your travails. Someone should talk to the ath. dept.'

the Char-Grill Chair Kick....

oldnavy
11-15-2009, 05:55 PM
Back in the day (early 70's), they turned down the lights in Cameron (maybe before it was actually named that) and had a spotlight on the players during the intro's. No Mike Buffer, but it was a theatrical production. Not sure exactly when it went away, maybe someone with a better memory can help me out...

Exiled_Devil
11-15-2009, 07:16 PM
give me a break,...that would seriously be a collosal mistake,,next thing we hear is the tired suggestion that we tear down that "old gym" for a new 21st century stadium....while we're at it the new seating arrangements are silly too. Taking the students out from behind the official's table for financial supporters, imo is shortsighted.

Who has heard anyone complain about their Cameron experience, ever...before this year?

This is part of a bigger rebranding of the whole of Duke Basketball, IMO, not just Cameron. See Dukeblueplanet, Coach K intereviews, etc.

And as far as who has complained, it took me a moment to realize lots of people have - the complaints have just focused on the Crazies. It occurs to me that some of the changes are directed at inspiring more out of the crazies. (To be clear, I am not a big fan of the changes nor do I believe in the 'crazies are no good this year/last year/in 1996' arguments)

The adds are a different issue all together.

sagegrouse
11-15-2009, 08:26 PM
Back in the day (early 70's), they turned down the lights in Cameron (maybe before it was actually named that) and had a spotlight on the players during the intro's. No Mike Buffer, but it was a theatrical production. Not sure exactly when it went away, maybe someone with a better memory can help me out...

Way before the 1970's, with lights off and a spotlight:

"At forward, from Lexington, Kentu-c-c-k-k-y, number for-r-rty f-o-o-u-r, Jeff Mullins."

"At forward, from Rockville Center-r-r-r, Long I-i-i-sland, nu-m-m-m-b-b-er twenty fi-i-i-ve, Captain Art Heyman."

The visiting team was introduced first with the lights on. I believe the movement away from the asymmetric intros occurred when the league was promoting sportsmanship and wanted the players to meet at mid-court and shalke hands. Thus, one player from each team was introduced at a time, making the spotlights not really possible.

I am sure Jim Sumner can correct the record, as usual.

sagegrouse

-jk
11-15-2009, 08:34 PM
At some point, they changed the lights to some that take 10 or 20 minutes to warm up to full brightness. It got in the way of using the spotlight.

Most venues that do spotlight stuff use shutters on the main lights to dim them rather than turn them off.

-jk

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-15-2009, 09:10 PM
Way before the 1970's, with lights off and a spotlight:

"At forward, from Lexington, Kentu-c-c-k-k-y, number for-r-rty f-o-o-u-r, Jeff Mullins."

"At forward, from Rockville Center-r-r-r, Long I-i-i-sland, nu-m-m-m-b-b-er twenty fi-i-i-ve, Captain Art Heyman."

The visiting team was introduced first with the lights on. I believe the movement away from the asymmetric intros occurred when the league was promoting sportsmanship and wanted the players to meet at mid-court and shalke hands. Thus, one player from each team was introduced at a time, making the spotlights not really possible.

I am sure Jim Sumner can correct the record, as usual.

sagegrouse

The introductions with the spotlight were all the more dramatic because of the very thick haze of cigarette smoke which hovered above the court. It was a different time when smoking was allowed upstairs and downstairs just as it was allowed in classes and everywhere else. We undergraduates also greeted each member of the visiting team with "Who's he?"

blazindw
11-15-2009, 11:30 PM
Not quite. The edge of the student section nearest to the band/grad student side had some open space after halftime. I'd say at least 100 people left at the half.

People squeeze in since there was space before the line monitors filled in their section. A few people left, but most people started leaving after the last TV timeout.

Edouble
11-16-2009, 01:10 AM
i did hate the selling of the introduction lineup....what's next the "wendy's-substitution of the game?" the "mcdonald's crucial time out"? the "bojangles-face blistering from coach-k on a missed hot-dog dunk"?

Wouldn't that be a missed Oscar Meyer hot-dog dunk?

oldnavy
11-16-2009, 07:08 AM
Way before the 1970's, with lights off and a spotlight:

"At forward, from Lexington, Kentu-c-c-k-k-y, number for-r-rty f-o-o-u-r, Jeff Mullins."

"At forward, from Rockville Center-r-r-r, Long I-i-i-sland, nu-m-m-m-b-b-er twenty fi-i-i-ve, Captain Art Heyman."

The visiting team was introduced first with the lights on. I believe the movement away from the asymmetric intros occurred when the league was promoting sportsmanship and wanted the players to meet at mid-court and shalke hands. Thus, one player from each team was introduced at a time, making the spotlights not really possible.

I am sure Jim Sumner can correct the record, as usual.

sagegrouse
It had to last at least until the Randy Denton, Willie Hodge, etc, era. I never saw Heyman or Mullins play, but I do remember the lights going down.

Ima Facultiwyfe
11-16-2009, 09:15 AM
We undergraduates also greeted each member of the visiting team with "Who's he?"

I'd forgotten the "Who's he?" That would be fun to get back to. I do love the current "Hi whoever!" But, I hope somebody puts a stop to the tacky "You s--ck" afterwards. Not clever, not original, not even funny. Beneath our standards, actually, and defeats the purpose of the tongue-in-cheek welcome.
Love, Ima

CLT Devil
11-16-2009, 11:44 AM
First of all, let me preface by saying that I've been going to Duke games since the early 80's, basically my whole life, and I still think it is the best sports venue I've ever been to. The only other place that was on par was being on the sidelines for a Notre Dame v. Duke game a couple of years ago. If you've ever been to an NC State Bball game you'd really know what it's like to have an impersonal feel to a game.

The students are always a little sluggish at the start of the season, some due to freshmen getting the hang of being a crazy, players earning their nicknames, inferior opponents not bringing out the most competitive nature of the crowd, etc.

I've seen everything from the candybar incident, the bra/panty incident, Pinball Wizard - all during the opposing player's introductions. Personally, I thought they were all funny, but that was a more innocent time. It used to be standard to say, "Hi Rasheed, You Suck!." But K didn't like that. Then it was reserved only for the Tarhole game, and now it's pretty much forbidden. I that was funny as well.

Point being; certain things will appeal to different people, and you can't please everyone. If someone is willing to give you money (not that Duke needs it) then why not take it? Like another poster said, it's all about the basketball. This reminds me of when posters on here complain about the Ads that are run on this site or who are "offended" by an April Fool's joke. I think it's great that companies would pay to help keep DBR as great of a site as it is...and even more so when some of the Ads had UNC products they were trying to sell. Think of the irony. How in the world can you complain about something like that? I think the same goes for the ads that are apparently new this year in CIS.

I haven't been to a game yet this season (brother got married last weekend) but just have some faith that come ACC season CIS will be rocking, and is one of the best sports venues on the PLANET...please stop complaining. I am as much of a Duke Bball purist as anyone, and any changes that are made do not bother me. Until we get to the point where we have to bring in canned crowd noise for the radio broadcast, motorcycles or some other manufactured nonsense any changes at CIS are fine with me.

So long as CIS exists, there's not a whole lot than can be done to diminish the experience of a home Duke Basketball game. The most rabid fans get the best seats, people are going to stand for the whole game, the product on the floor will be good and we will still have the best homecourt advantage in the ACC. Be thankful we have what we have, which is the best place to watch a college basketball game, hands down.

Maybe I will change my mind after I make it to a game this year, but I find these complaints ridiculous.

wandalee
11-16-2009, 12:46 PM
OK, I just sent an email to Coach K, Kevin White, and Kevin Beaty stating the overall displeasure with the canned starting lineup. Has anyone else written them?

Battierfan01
11-16-2009, 12:51 PM
OK, I just sent an email to Coach K, Kevin White, and Kevin Beaty stating the overall displeasure with the canned starting lineup. Has anyone else written them?

I would like to. Do you have an email address to reach them??

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-16-2009, 01:07 PM
OK, I just sent an email to Coach K, Kevin White, and Kevin Beaty stating the overall displeasure with the canned starting lineup. Has anyone else written them?

Eric Beaty, not Kevin Beaty, heads up the Iron Dukes.

moonpie23
11-16-2009, 01:12 PM
but I find these complaints ridiculous.

if you're lumping them all together, maybe you should come sit in the back row with my son then......oh, did i mention that you can't stand up?

DukeDevilDeb
11-16-2009, 01:40 PM
kwhite@duaa.duke.edu

via: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1480786&

I'm not sure I ever would have thought of going to goduke.com for an e-mail address! That was really smart.

DukeDevilDeb
11-16-2009, 01:49 PM
Yeah, I was at the game, and the mass exodus (to buy food) was followed by a mass return. Stadium was full until people started to leave to beat traffic at the end of the game. There have been plenty of times to complain about attendance, but this game isn't one of them.

I sit in section 8 (sort of behind the visitors' bench). After halftime, there was a huge gap in the student section. I would venture to say that a sixth or seventh of the students on that side left. It did fill in after a while (though not completely), but the people who filled it in weren't students.

CLT Devil
11-16-2009, 01:58 PM
if you're lumping them all together, maybe you should come sit in the back row with my son then......oh, did i mention that you can't stand up?

Sorry, I should have made it clear that I was not putting your son into that group. I think they need to make it available for someone with a disability to have a clear view of the game. It reminds me of a few years back there was a Maryland fan who had a front row seat under the basket and there was either an elderly or hadicapped fan directly behind him who couldn't see because he stood the whole game. I think finally an usher asked him to sit...but I remember thinking about what a jerk he was. So, no, I was not talking about your instance Moonpie...more about any grad students complaining about having to stand to see...or anyone else capable for that matter.

DukeDevilDeb
11-16-2009, 02:03 PM
You've made Cameron Crazy...

but not in a good way. Please, I’ve been going to games for almost 25 years. None of us in the upper deck like the crazy Michael Buffer player intros. Why would anyone want to stretch Miles Plumlee into an 8 syllable word?

We all understand the need for new branding for Duke… but do you REALLY think this is the kind of change that is going to convince Harrison Barnes to come here? Oh, you do? Well, guess what? It didn’t work. I also teach at Duke, and the students in my classes are complaining about the intros and the former player comments on the new scoreboard. Oh, while I have you here, can you tell me when Dwayne Wade played at Duke? I’d forgotten that.

Go with some changes, but not those that make Duke seem cheap or far behind current trends… I didn’t much like Countdown to Craziness, but I was willing to accept it because I thought the kids did get excited (despite the fact that many of us in the blue seats couldn’t see the scoreboard because of the ring of lights)… Things have gotten a little better… although I would still like to have everyone sing the National Anthem while the band plays (where is Francis when you need her?).

But the Duke player intros and the canned footage from alums and other famous people? Leave that to the Carolinas of the world… oh, did Harrison Barnes commit there? Wonder why? :confused:

DukeDevilDeb

blazindw
11-16-2009, 02:52 PM
I sit in section 8 (sort of behind the visitors' bench). After halftime, there was a huge gap in the student section. I would venture to say that a sixth or seventh of the students on that side left. It did fill in after a while (though not completely), but the people who filled it in weren't students.

Are you saying that there was a gap on the non-TV side behind the bench? Because that side is no longer students.

Edouble
11-16-2009, 02:56 PM
You've made Cameron Crazy...

but not in a good way. Please, I’ve been going to games for almost 25 years. None of us in the upper deck like the crazy Michael Buffer player intros. Why would anyone want to stretch Miles Plumlee into an 8 syllable word?

We all understand the need for new branding for Duke… but do you REALLY think this is the kind of change that is going to convince Harrison Barnes to come here? Oh, you do? Well, guess what? It didn’t work. I also teach at Duke, and the students in my classes are complaining about the intros and the former player comments on the new scoreboard. Oh, while I have you here, can you tell me when Dwayne Wade played at Duke? I’d forgotten that.

Go with some changes, but not those that make Duke seem cheap or far behind current trends… I didn’t much like Countdown to Craziness, but I was willing to accept it because I thought the kids did get excited (despite the fact that many of us in the blue seats couldn’t see the scoreboard because of the ring of lights)… Things have gotten a little better… although I would still like to have everyone sing the National Anthem while the band plays (where is Francis when you need her?).

But the Duke player intros and the canned footage from alums and other famous people? Leave that to the Carolinas of the world… oh, did Harrison Barnes commit there? Wonder why? :confused:

DukeDevilDeb

Um, you didn't really send that did you?

moonpie23
11-16-2009, 03:08 PM
Sorry, I should have made it clear that I was not putting your son into that group. I think they need to make it available for someone with a disability to have a clear view of the game.


thanks.....i was actually debating with myself about rolling him around to the front row and asking two of the folks there if we could switch with them since they would be able to see over him without any problem...but then, i thought about Zubs,Thomas and Singler crashing into my son on a full bore run trying to save an out of bounds play and thought.....ummmm...maybe i DON'T want him on the front row....


i agree they need an elevated, PROTECTED area for the wheelchair folks......and i don't mind just my son getting the exchange, i'll go sit in the nosebleeds if he can see the game ...

LanceChef
11-16-2009, 03:47 PM
As I haven't seen the changes with intros, advertising, etc. on a broadcast yet this season, are they noticeable on TV? This may explain some of the division on the board in responses to the changes. Additionally, if they are noticeable, then the changes make sense in reaching out to a broader audience and improving the Duke image towards the general public (and possibly Jersey Mike's Subs).

91devil
11-16-2009, 03:55 PM
You've made Cameron Crazy...

but not in a good way. Please, I’ve been going to games for almost 25 years. None of us in the upper deck like the crazy Michael Buffer player intros. Why would anyone want to stretch Miles Plumlee into an 8 syllable word?

We all understand the need for new branding for Duke… but do you REALLY think this is the kind of change that is going to convince Harrison Barnes to come here? Oh, you do? Well, guess what? It didn’t work. I also teach at Duke, and the students in my classes are complaining about the intros and the former player comments on the new scoreboard. Oh, while I have you here, can you tell me when Dwayne Wade played at Duke? I’d forgotten that.

Go with some changes, but not those that make Duke seem cheap or far behind current trends… I didn’t much like Countdown to Craziness, but I was willing to accept it because I thought the kids did get excited (despite the fact that many of us in the blue seats couldn’t see the scoreboard because of the ring of lights)… Things have gotten a little better… although I would still like to have everyone sing the National Anthem while the band plays (where is Francis when you need her?).

But the Duke player intros and the canned footage from alums and other famous people? Leave that to the Carolinas of the world… oh, did Harrison Barnes commit there? Wonder why? :confused:

DukeDevilDeb

You sent this letter to Coach K?

SharkD
11-16-2009, 04:03 PM
I'm not sure I ever would have thought of going to goduke.com for an e-mail address! That was really smart.

I'd love to take credit for being brilliant, but that GoDuke.com page the second search result on Duke.edu, when searching for "Kevin White."

http://www.duke.edu/search/?q=kevin+white

Battierfan01
11-16-2009, 04:06 PM
As I haven't seen the changes with intros, advertising, etc. on a broadcast yet this season, are they noticeable on TV? This may explain some of the division on the board in responses to the changes. Additionally, if they are noticeable, then the changes make sense in reaching out to a broader audience and improving the Duke image towards the general public (and possibly Jersey Mike's Subs).

I have been to Cameron earlier this year and noticed all the changes that have been discussed here. I don't think that most of the changes are noticeable on TV. The player intros are usually not show on TV and most of the videos on the scoreboard and the advertising are done during timeouts, which is during TV commericals.

Troublemaker
11-16-2009, 04:27 PM
Taunting the Duke program and Coach K about Harrison Barnes is probably not the best way to get your message across.

FWIW, I doubt the new intros are long for this world. Enough people hate them and have complained that I'd be surprised if they last the season and shocked if they're around next season.

There's a right way to voice displeasure, though. Keep in mind that the people in the program work hard, too. Sometimes, when people try new things, especially when they're trying new things to entertain you, they might make a mistake or conceive an idea that's not so good. Let them know what you think, sure, but don't be nasty about it. You teach at Duke and should know better.



You've made Cameron Crazy...

but not in a good way. Please, I’ve been going to games for almost 25 years. None of us in the upper deck like the crazy Michael Buffer player intros. Why would anyone want to stretch Miles Plumlee into an 8 syllable word?

We all understand the need for new branding for Duke… but do you REALLY think this is the kind of change that is going to convince Harrison Barnes to come here? Oh, you do? Well, guess what? It didn’t work. I also teach at Duke, and the students in my classes are complaining about the intros and the former player comments on the new scoreboard. Oh, while I have you here, can you tell me when Dwayne Wade played at Duke? I’d forgotten that.

Go with some changes, but not those that make Duke seem cheap or far behind current trends… I didn’t much like Countdown to Craziness, but I was willing to accept it because I thought the kids did get excited (despite the fact that many of us in the blue seats couldn’t see the scoreboard because of the ring of lights)… Things have gotten a little better… although I would still like to have everyone sing the National Anthem while the band plays (where is Francis when you need her?).

But the Duke player intros and the canned footage from alums and other famous people? Leave that to the Carolinas of the world… oh, did Harrison Barnes commit there? Wonder why? :confused:

DukeDevilDeb

CLT Devil
11-16-2009, 05:15 PM
Taunting the Duke program and Coach K about Harrison Barnes is probably not the best way to get your message across.

FWIW, I doubt the new intros are long for this world. Enough people hate them and have complained that I'd be surprised if they last the season and shocked if they're around next season.

There's a right way to voice displeasure, though. Keep in mind that the people in the program work hard, too. Sometimes, when people try new things, especially when they're trying new things to entertain you, they might make a mistake or conceive an idea that's not so good. Let them know what you think, sure, but don't be nasty about it. You teach at Duke and should know better.

Yes, Deb....please confirm you were making a point (to which I have zero clue) and you didn't send this email to anyone. I hate to be harsh, but you might want to let everyone know this was just a joke...and a very not funny one at that. Listen, I know everyone is a little down after this past weekend, let's just be thankful for what we have, and thankful that some people in the program are at least willing to try a couple of new things. As a professor you know better than to make blanket statements.

lpd1982
11-16-2009, 05:27 PM
You've made Cameron Crazy...

but not in a good way. Please, I’ve been going to games for almost 25 years. None of us in the upper deck like the crazy Michael Buffer player intros. Why would anyone want to stretch Miles Plumlee into an 8 syllable word?

We all understand the need for new branding for Duke… but do you REALLY think this is the kind of change that is going to convince Harrison Barnes to come here? Oh, you do? Well, guess what? It didn’t work. I also teach at Duke, and the students in my classes are complaining about the intros and the former player comments on the new scoreboard. Oh, while I have you here, can you tell me when Dwayne Wade played at Duke? I’d forgotten that.

Go with some changes, but not those that make Duke seem cheap or far behind current trends… I didn’t much like Countdown to Craziness, but I was willing to accept it because I thought the kids did get excited (despite the fact that many of us in the blue seats couldn’t see the scoreboard because of the ring of lights)… Things have gotten a little better… although I would still like to have everyone sing the National Anthem while the band plays (where is Francis when you need her?).

But the Duke player intros and the canned footage from alums and other famous people? Leave that to the Carolinas of the world… oh, did Harrison Barnes commit there? Wonder why? :confused:

DukeDevilDeb

Say you were kidding because I don't want to think anyone at Duke would kick a dog when it's down, would they?

wandalee
11-16-2009, 10:02 PM
There was no canned lineup announcement and no audio ads at Cameron tonight. Was that just because the game was part of the Dick's Sporting Goods NIT or was it due to lots of complaints? I'm betting it had something to do with the NIT.

Jumbo
11-16-2009, 10:11 PM
How can you say that I am making 'alot of faulty assumptions', when you go ahead and continue with what you are 'imagining.' I assure you that what I stated above are not faulty 'assumptions' but first hand knowledge. I did not say that the original poster was not entitled to personal dislikes. What I said was that some of the changes were designed for another purpose and because they were well received, were carried over. I get really tired of hearing about all the myriad changes our team, staff , etc SHOULD make , but every time they do make ANY changes they get hammered for it.

I think you've largely missed my point. I'm well aware of the reasons behind these changes. I also know that the team LOVED Countdown to Craziness. I took issue, though, with your tone toward other posters, treating anyone who complained as if they were old and behind the times. In this case, the one person who is truly old and behind the times is Michael Buffer. Just as you can say the team enjoys the Buffer intros, I could probably say, "You know, I'll bet if they got Lil Wayne to introduce every player live, they'd like that even more."

Change isn't bad. Lame change is bad. Duke can do better than a recording of a 65-year-old Michael Buffer. That's my point.

Exiled_Devil
11-16-2009, 10:19 PM
I'd forgotten the "Who's he?" That would be fun to get back to. I do love the current "Hi whoever!" But, I hope somebody puts a stop to the tacky "You s--ck" afterwards. Not clever, not original, not even funny. Beneath our standards, actually, and defeats the purpose of the tongue-in-cheek welcome.
Love, Ima

+1 on getting rid of the "you suck". That's what Maryland fans do. Duke is supposed to be clever, not crass.

Intros were normal tonight, except it was either a substitute or trial announcer who had some challenges keeping up with the game.

One thing I wanted from the crazies was something good directed at the CCU mascot - it was a giant rooster! There are so many opportunities for chicken and genital chants. They did pull out a nice one with "chick-fil-a" late in the second half - I just hoped for so much more.

That little nit aside, a great atmosphere in Cameron tonight. Keep it up.

RelativeWays
11-16-2009, 10:36 PM
Lil Wayne intros at Cameron would be awesome as long as he gets to use Auto-tone doing it. I hear theres an Iphone auto-tone app now so its possible. Just think about and auto tone version of "Kyle Singler!" Thats hilarious.

I think what people arent realizing is that some of these changes may be going on at the request of K and the players. As much as people would love to paint Coach K as some old stuffy codger reluctant to change (and on some things he is) he is remarkably sensative and attuned to Duke as a brand and how that resonates with not just recruits but area fans too. Duke sports is a business, and there is a balance between the history and tradition versus the hip and modern accoutrements that todays kids like. Nobody likes change, particularly your lifelong fans and alumni, but nobody likes stagnation either. I went to Countdown to Craziness and saw nothing as some heinous affront to Duke basketball tradition.

lifelongdevil
11-16-2009, 11:08 PM
+1 on getting rid of the "you suck". That's what Maryland fans do. Duke is supposed to be clever, not crass.

Intros were normal tonight, except it was either a substitute or trial announcer who had some challenges keeping up with the game.

One thing I wanted from the crazies was something good directed at the CCU mascot - it was a giant rooster! There are so many opportunities for chicken and genital chants. They did pull out a nice one with "chick-fil-a" late in the second half - I just hoped for so much more.

That little nit aside, a great atmosphere in Cameron tonight. Keep it up.

agreed with the "you suck". There were also a a few "bull....'s" chanted. It was freshman night and I'm pretty sure most of these kids had never been to a game before(not sure most of them know the sport of basketball actually, but thats a different argument) and don't know the traditions and taboos/procedures/standards cheers.

as for the genital cheers, there were a few "cock blocks" on rejected shots, but other wise it was indeed absent. chicken dance was done by the band during a free throw attempt as well. this is where cheer sheets would help the uninformed. While i wish they weren't needed, when the kid behind me asks if kyle singler is a freshman and his friend pontificates as to why on earth paulus's jersey wasn't retired, some basic info on our team and the opponent might be helpful.

Ima Facultiwyfe
11-16-2009, 11:23 PM
He's doing a phenomenal job! He's been really helpful in getting new crazies and the entire student section unified and off and running in the right direction! He's working hard and getting a big job done. He's everywhere at once. A+ tonight.

When we got home from the game and turned on ESPNU to see what other NIT venues were doing, it was like walking in on a funeral. Blah. There's no place like Cameron!

Except for the tired and sophomoric old "You suck" part (c'mon guys you can do better than that), we were proud of everything Duke tonight!
Love, Ima

El_Diablo
11-17-2009, 12:09 AM
chicken dance was done by the band during a free throw attempt as well.

The entire student section did the chicken dance during an extended timeout after the aqua rat-hen mascot tried to rile up the Crazies.

It also got some extra cheers throughout the game:

"UGLY MASCOT" * * ***

"SEXY DEVIL...UGLY BIRD!"

Exiled_Devil
11-17-2009, 12:20 AM
The entire student section did the chicken dance during an extended timeout after the aqua rat-hen mascot tried to rile up the Crazies.

It also got some extra cheers throughout the game:

"UGLY MASCOT" * * ***

"SEXY DEVIL...UGLY BIRD!"

Nice! I couldn't catch some cheers upstairs. Glad to hear that the Crazies did take advantage of the chicken tool. (He actually pushed one of the Grad students during the 2nd half.)

DukeDevilDeb
11-17-2009, 09:06 AM
As I said in an earlier post, I wrote to Coach K, Kevin White, and Eric Beaty and tried to communicate many of the concerns of people on this thread.

Not surprisingly, I haven't yet heard from Coach K or Kevin White. ;)

But I did get a remarkably nice and probably very honest response from Eric. Here's what he said:

Deb,

Thank you for your email and your passion for Duke Basketball.

I appreciate your feedback regarding the changes during games and can assure you that your email will be thoughtfully considered. I will pass along your email to the appropriate people within the Athletic Department. So you know, I believe promotions and basketball are still in the “tinkering” phase with the pre-game in an attempt to improve the atmosphere in Cameron. I use the word tinkering because I don’t think they are set on anything yet as far as pre-game goes. Emails such as this may help with the decision.

Again, thank you for your loyalty.

Eric

Eric Beaty
Director, Iron Dukes Annual Fund
Duke Athletics
Box 90542
116 Cameron Indoor Stadium
Durham, NC 27708-0542
(919) 613-7575
(919) 681-8612 (fax)

My grandmother would have said that he is a mensch. For those of you who don't speak Yiddush, a mensch is " person of integrity and honor; someone to admire and emulate, someone of noble character".

Isn't it nice to know that someone has taken the time to think about and respond to these issues? :)

DukeDevilDeb
11-17-2009, 12:49 PM
Got a letter back from Kevin White too!

DukeDevilDeb:

Kevin White has asked me to respond to your email regarding the new player introductions.

This season, the Athletic Department has attempted to "make Cameron crazy again" by trying some new and innovative ways to invigorate and re-charge the crowd, as well as take into account the type of atmosphere the student-athletes would enjoy. Understandably, any new changes come with some level of resistance.

Please know that the staff will constantly evaluate any changes and tweak where appropriate moving forward.


Sincere thanks for your feedback on the Cameron experience.

Boo

Boo Corrigan
Senior Associate Athletics Director
Duke University

Battierfan01
11-17-2009, 12:49 PM
I heard that Coach K said after the UNCG game that the Crazies were the best they've been this early in the season. I watched the CC game last night and they looked like they were in mid-season form. Lets keep it up!!

moonpie23
11-17-2009, 12:51 PM
i love the crazies.....i think the announcers said that cliff ellis told his team that they were going to feel like they were being guarded by 6 players when they were on the court.....

yay!!

Battierfan01
11-17-2009, 01:00 PM
i love the crazies.....i think the announcers said that cliff ellis told his team that they were going to feel like they were being guarded by 6 players when they were on the court.....

yay!!

They don't call em the 6th Man for nothing. :)

callaway
11-17-2009, 01:19 PM
+1 on getting rid of the "you suck". That's what Maryland fans do. Duke is supposed to be clever, not crass.

Intros were normal tonight, except it was either a substitute or trial announcer who had some challenges keeping up with the game.



The PA guy was auditioning last night. He does the PA in Wallace Wade. This is Dr. Chandler's final year - a run of 40 straight - and the promotions folks are looking for his successor. IMHO you can only succeed Dr. Chandler, not "replace" him.

Battierfan01
11-17-2009, 01:34 PM
The PA guy was auditioning last night. He does the PA in Wallace Wade. This is Dr. Chandler's final year - a run of 40 straight - and the promotions folks are looking for his successor. IMHO you can only succeed Dr. Chandler, not "replace" him.

I totally agree with you. I think the person that succeeds Dr. Chandler will have to live up to a lot of expectations. I also think that it will take a lot of "getting use to" when someone different steps into Dr. Chandler's role because we have been so use to him for so many years. The man is truly a legend and a special part of the Cameron experience!!

El_Diablo
11-21-2009, 11:32 AM
This helps explain the ads:

http://dukechronicle.com/article/athletics-confronts-budget-shortfall

Let's cut the athletics department some slack...

uh_no
11-21-2009, 01:49 PM
i liked how they didched buffer+the videos last week against UNCC, but i wonder how much of that had to do with the fact that it was a tournament game

wandalee
11-21-2009, 05:48 PM
After sending an email to Coach K, Kevin White, and Eric Beaty, I heard back from Beaty and Boo Corrigan. Both said that Athletics "has attempted to "make Cameron crazy again" by trying some new and innovative ways to invigorate and re-charge the crowd, as well as take into account the type of atmosphere the student-athletes would enjoy. Understandably, any new changes come with some level of resistance." Both said that staff will constantly evaluate changes and make tweaks as necessary. So, maybe we have hope that they'll ditch the canned line-up announcement, especially if enough people voice their displeasure.

godukecom
11-21-2009, 06:48 PM
Buffer intros were back tonight...

Cameron
11-21-2009, 07:32 PM
No Dr. Chandler?

DU82
11-21-2009, 07:33 PM
The PA guy was auditioning last night. He does the PA in Wallace Wade. This is Dr. Chandler's final year - a run of 40 straight - and the promotions folks are looking for his successor. IMHO you can only succeed Dr. Chandler, not "replace" him.

A correction to your post. Dr. Chandler missed the '90-91 season, as he was "drafted", his national guard unit was called into service for Desert Storm (ie, the first Iraq conflict.) An ophthalmologist is a valuable resource in any war, and in particular one with a lot of blowing sand.

Hearnig the Buffer intros today, and from a previous post understanding that the plan is for Buffer to be live at the UNC game, I realized that Dr. Chandler would not introduce the Duke starting lineup for his final game, unless we can get this changed, and keep Buffer in Las Vegas.

Also, to the students. Please lose the "You suck" and "bullspit".

Cameron
11-21-2009, 07:38 PM
Hearnig the Buffer intros today, and from a previous post understanding that the plan is for Buffer to be live at the UNC game, I realized that Dr. Chandler would not introduce the Duke starting lineup for his final game, unless we can get this changed, and keep Buffer in Las Vegas.

If Dr. Chandler is not "allowed" to announce his final Carolina game, that is a disgraceful mark on Duke University's athletics decision makers.

Michael Buffer at the mic is nothing but a cheap gimmick. Shame on Duke if this turns out to be the case.

Newton_14
11-21-2009, 07:58 PM
Today's routine in Cameron was more like the old days during the pregame with a couple of exceptions.

PRe-game was practically normal except for video's showing both previous game highlights and best Cameron Crazie moments. It was more normal with the band and crazies doing the normal songs and cheers..

Dr. Chandler did all of the announcing and intro's except for unfortunately the Duke starting line up. That was the pre-recorded Michael Buffer again. I enjoyed it live at the CountDown to Craziness but like others find it annoying now. Really wish they would lose that altogether...

The crazie's did the you suck thing again during the Radford intro's and they had one poor guy starting whose name was Buck so you can imagine the rest on that one..maybe they will cut it out soon..

Other than that it was all good. Crazies were good, and they only showed one of the former player promoting Duke video's and it was done at a time it did not interfere with anything so it was not bad at all..

mike88
11-21-2009, 07:59 PM
Maybe Michael Buffer can introduce Dr. Chandler, who can then announce the starting line-up!

Sixthman
11-21-2009, 08:10 PM
If Dr. Chandler is not "allowed" to announce his final Carolina game, that is a disgraceful mark on Duke University's athletics decision makers.

Michael Buffer at the mic is nothing but a cheap gimmick. Shame on Duke if this turns out to be the case.

It is a shame on to Duke. I am so disappointed in Duke -- the people making the decisions just not getting it. The Michael Buffer announcements this afternoon were treated as the embarrassment they are. I could see people all around me cringing and ignoring the prerecorded hype. A visitor from Radford sitting next to me was decidedly unimpressed, asking if all of the excitement in Cameron was preprogrammed and "artificial". What makes Cameron special? Spontanaity, cleverness, brass, passion, belief, knowledge, and fun. Everything that prerecorded hype from some hired mouth who could care less about Duke basketball IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT.

Exiled_Devil
11-21-2009, 08:56 PM
Other than that it was all good. Crazies were good, and they only showed one of the former player promoting Duke video's and it was done at a time it did not interfere with anything so it was not bad at all..

I beg to differ. The crazies were out-cheered pretty regularly by the Radford fan section, which was ~40 people. Really, it was a matter of the Radford fans starting their cheers much quicker than the Crazies. Some possessions would have only Radford cheers going on.

I will agree with the 'please stop you-suck' and I expect that if it continues, Coach K will say something to the Crazies.

As for the athletic department trying to use videos and other tools to energize the Crazies, they are missing the point -what they should be doing is directly engaging with the Crazies - something like the training in Tucsan would have been good for the crazies.

Kimist
11-21-2009, 09:14 PM
Buffer intros were back tonight...

tonight???

I attended the Radford game on Saturday afternoon (first visit this season) and at this point I am undecided on the canned intros. My guess is they might well get a bit tedious after being viewed a dozen or so times.

I did note that the spontaneity of the Crazies is once more very scripted. Let's first put the obligatory "O" in the national anthem. At such and such a time the surfboard will always come out. At another such and such time the fans will yell "Crazy Towel Guy" and CTG will stand up and twirl his white towel. The list could go on...to use that old phrase it is almost "like deja vu all over again."

Please note that I'm not complaining here, but it would seem if the powers that be wished to create a better atmosphere in Cameron they perhaps also could consider something other than electronic gimmicks.

k

Cameron
11-21-2009, 09:28 PM
Maybe the cheer should be, "Hey, White, you suck" instead? Maybe we could have Hal Douglas (of NBA Finals Films and TV commercial fame) announce it? Just a thought. White is, after all, the one who said they are going to continue to try and "make Cameron the most exciting basketball tourist attraction around," no?

I'm sorry, Kevin, but there are no animatronic pirates in college basketball. What is it you want exactly? A double ferris wheel in the Vic Bubas concourse?

I agree with you whole heartedly, Sixthman. This is an absolute joke. Duke surely is not serious about all of this. Hard to believe such an institution could be so obtuse, to use the words of Andy Dufresne.

jipops
11-21-2009, 10:21 PM
Just to chiming in here to cast my vote to get rid of the Michael Buffer intros. It goes completely against everything I have come to love about Cameron. It has to go, it is completely non-Duke. I'm all for trying new things from time to time but that into is cliched and lame. I prefer the classic in-person voice doing the intros.

El_Diablo
11-21-2009, 10:33 PM
Keep writing letters. At some point they'll get the message.

RaineyDevil
11-22-2009, 02:56 AM
ok...im 25 so it could be a generational gap, but ive been to the UNCG and the Radford games at CIS and to be honest with you, I have enjoyed the hype of the intro's....with that being said, i am a UFC fan which Bruce Buffer is a known speaker and I belive it brings "hype" to the Duke scene and could be benefitiial to CIS....

devilboomer
11-22-2009, 03:23 AM
I am one of the Cameron Crazies.


I beg to differ. The crazies were out-cheered pretty regularly by the Radford fan section, which was ~40 people. Really, it was a matter of the Radford fans starting their cheers much quicker than the Crazies. Some possessions would have only Radford cheers going on.

Radford brought a good crowd tonight, and they were very enthusiastic in the first 10 minutes with their cheers. But the Crazies responded each time. Chants of "air-ball" were greeted with "score-board, score-board." To be honest, what else do you expect us to do? We're up by 40 and the Radford fans are chanting "de-fense, de-fense." Forgive us if we're really not that interested in the Radford fans. Sometimes it's easier to ignore a little mosquito than throw a fit.



tonight???
I did note that the spontaneity of the Crazies is once more very scripted. Let's first put the obligatory "O" in the national anthem. At such and such a time the surfboard will always come out. At another such and such time the fans will yell "Crazy Towel Guy" and CTG will stand up and twirl his white towel. The list could go on...to use that old phrase it is almost "like deja vu all over again."

Please note that I'm not complaining here, but it would seem if the powers that be wished to create a better atmosphere in Cameron they perhaps also could consider something other than electronic gimmicks.
k

I realize you're not complaining, but understand that the Crazies don't really care if the Cameron Polites are disappointed with our antics. Until all the fans in the upper deck cheer just as hard as we do, you can't criticize us. I have observed many fans in the upper deck fall asleep during games. Many left the stadium with 6 minutes left to play today. We stayed until the end. A couple of games ago, I saw a fan in the upper deck reach down and slap a student in the head with his newspaper, presumably for something the kid yelled. Unacceptable. We're not your children. Do not hit us.

Again, there are a lot of home games each season. While you may want us to put on a show for the few games at which you are in CIS, we are there every game. Many of us waited in line for hours before this particular game. Don't forget that we are college students too, and have responsibilities to which we must attend. Duke was up by 40. We gave Andre lots of love ('Dre all Day! Dre' all day!). We ridiculed their player for his prior run-ins with the law. I felt we did a good job.

Finally, there is something to be said for tradition. It is tradition for us to call for the crazy towel guy each game. It is tradition for us to chant "our house, our house" on the last possession. And it's not exactly like the upper deck is without fault here, either. I personally don't like the trumpet guy, but he seems to play his "dun-dun-dun-dun-dun, charge!" tune about four to five times a game. I don't like the guy that throws candy; we're not 12 yrs old.

In conclusion, I'm not angry with you. But I certainly won't tolerate criticism of the Crazies. When the upper deck out-cheers the Crazies, and only then, will I accept a lecture from the ticketed fans.

We're all Duke fans here. All on the same side. But please don't criticize our effort.

RaineyDevil
11-22-2009, 03:35 AM
I am one of the Cameron Crazies.



Radford brought a good crowd tonight, and they were very enthusiastic in the first 10 minutes with their cheers. But the Crazies responded each time. Chants of "air-ball" were greeted with "score-board, score-board." To be honest, what else do you expect us to do? We're up by 40 and the Radford fans are chanting "de-fense, de-fense." Forgive us if we're really not that interested in the Radford fans. Sometimes it's easier to ignore a little mosquito than throw a fit.




I realize you're not complaining, but understand that the Crazies don't really care if the Cameron Polites are disappointed with our antics. Until all the fans in the upper deck cheer just as hard as we do, you can't criticize us. I have observed many fans in the upper deck fall asleep during games. Many left the stadium with 6 minutes left to play today. We stayed until the end. A couple of games ago, I saw a fan in the upper deck reach down and slap a student in the head with his newspaper, presumably for something the kid yelled. Unacceptable. We're not your children. Do not hit us.

Again, there are a lot of home games each season. While you may want us to put on a show for the few games at which you are in CIS, we are there every game. Many of us waited in line for hours before this particular game. Don't forget that we are college students too, and have responsibilities to which we must attend. Duke was up by 40. We gave Andre lots of love ('Dre all Day! Dre' all day!). We ridiculed their player for his prior run-ins with the law. I felt we did a good job.

Finally, there is something to be said for tradition. It is tradition for us to call for the crazy towel guy each game. It is tradition for us to chant "our house, our house" on the last possession. And it's not exactly like the upper deck is without fault here, either. I personally don't like the trumpet guy, but he seems to play his "dun-dun-dun-dun-dun, charge!" tune about four to five times a game. I don't like the guy that throws candy; we're not 12 yrs old.

In conclusion, I'm not angry with you. But I certainly won't tolerate criticism of the Crazies. When the upper deck out-cheers the Crazies, and only then, will I accept a lecture from the ticketed fans.

We're all Duke fans here. All on the same side. But please don't criticize our effort.

Duke has built it's student section on the court for a reason...we are the most intelligent fans on the Earth. Let the students do the research and let them harass the opposing team for their faults. Tradition and Respect is what we are built on. Creativity is what we will thrive on. GO DUKE!

lpd1982
11-22-2009, 07:09 AM
Duke has built it's student section on the court for a reason...we are the most intelligent fans on the Earth. Let the students do the research and let them harass the opposing team for their faults. Tradition and Respect is what we are built on. Creativity is what we will thrive on. GO DUKE!

I am so happy this thread is moving in this direction. Certainly every fan is entitled to his or her opinion, but our season has begun in a stellar fashion, we have exciting propsects for a great year, our veterans are our rocks, our freshman are outperforming our expectations...and yet, every time I open DBR this d@@@ thread is at the top moaning about a million different things. I guess if that's what y'all want to spend your energy on in terms of Duke Basketball, go for it. I think I'll go subscribe to another board.

msdukie
11-22-2009, 10:09 AM
We are all on the same side, we should all strive to be the best fans possible and not fight with each other.

That being said:

1. There should be NO Michael Buffer (keep writing the letters).
2. All Duke fans should be loud and support their team.
3. Fans upstairs should not attack the students (and vice versa).
4. There should never be an empty seat in the building
5. Save for the handicapped and those physically unable to stand who should be put in the front, there should be no seats in the upper deck. Bleachers to jump on would be acceptable.
6. The doors should be locked from the inside so that you cannot leave Cameron until the game is over.
7. If you find a way to escape the doors before the game is over, the Iron Dukes should act appropriately.
8. Iron Dukes should not sell tickets to the opponents fans, ever. There are always Duke fans who would buy the tickets and the Iron Dukes ticket exchange.
9. Go to every game you possibly can. If you can't, make sure a Duke fan can go for you (see #8).
10. GTHC

Just my early morning rant and $ .02 after reading this thread.

El_Diablo
11-22-2009, 10:28 AM
I noticed that there weren't any complaints about student attendance for the FIRST time this year. YAY! Yet we can't go one game without criticizing the Crazies, can we???

Nope.

So...the Radford fans were loud when we were shooting free throws. Deja vu is good (Chandler > Buffer), but deja vu is bad (Crazy Towel Guy, Wipeout). We need to keep the tradition, but we need to change the tradition. Got it. Thanks.

blazindw
11-22-2009, 11:11 AM
I am one of the Cameron Crazies.



Radford brought a good crowd tonight, and they were very enthusiastic in the first 10 minutes with their cheers. But the Crazies responded each time. Chants of "air-ball" were greeted with "score-board, score-board." To be honest, what else do you expect us to do? We're up by 40 and the Radford fans are chanting "de-fense, de-fense." Forgive us if we're really not that interested in the Radford fans. Sometimes it's easier to ignore a little mosquito than throw a fit.




I realize you're not complaining, but understand that the Crazies don't really care if the Cameron Polites are disappointed with our antics. Until all the fans in the upper deck cheer just as hard as we do, you can't criticize us. I have observed many fans in the upper deck fall asleep during games. Many left the stadium with 6 minutes left to play today. We stayed until the end. A couple of games ago, I saw a fan in the upper deck reach down and slap a student in the head with his newspaper, presumably for something the kid yelled. Unacceptable. We're not your children. Do not hit us.

Again, there are a lot of home games each season. While you may want us to put on a show for the few games at which you are in CIS, we are there every game. Many of us waited in line for hours before this particular game. Don't forget that we are college students too, and have responsibilities to which we must attend. Duke was up by 40. We gave Andre lots of love ('Dre all Day! Dre' all day!). We ridiculed their player for his prior run-ins with the law. I felt we did a good job.

Finally, there is something to be said for tradition. It is tradition for us to call for the crazy towel guy each game. It is tradition for us to chant "our house, our house" on the last possession. And it's not exactly like the upper deck is without fault here, either. I personally don't like the trumpet guy, but he seems to play his "dun-dun-dun-dun-dun, charge!" tune about four to five times a game. I don't like the guy that throws candy; we're not 12 yrs old.

In conclusion, I'm not angry with you. But I certainly won't tolerate criticism of the Crazies. When the upper deck out-cheers the Crazies, and only then, will I accept a lecture from the ticketed fans.

We're all Duke fans here. All on the same side. But please don't criticize our effort.

I personally agree with you on all of this. Though, to nitpick, when I was in school, "Let's Go Duke" was what we cheered on the last possession for every game, win or lose. "Our House" was saved for games against tough, usually-ranked opponents. The Crazies jumping from left to right and going "Oooooh!" when the team comes out for warmups was something that started when I was in school. "Everytime We Touch" was never played...why? It wasn't out yet. "Rock Lobster" was the song that got everyone fired up. Also, I, along with 2 other line monitors, had friends on the Dancing Devils, and mimicked their dance moves to "Devil With A Blue Dress"....that started my senior year and I'm pleased people still do it today.

The point is: some traditions change in a Crazie's 4 years in Cameron. Some stay the same. And it's okay. The main tradition, above all, that should remain the same is that the Crazies yell and cheer themselves hoarse for every game for the team. The upstairs will join in for some cheers...start them slowly so they can catch on. However, and no offense to the upstairs, Cameron has the reputation it does because of the students. When you hear of opposing teams playing in Cameron, the first thing they mention is the students being on top of them. No matter what, it is the students that have the target on their back and the pressure to generate the atmosphere that Cameron is famous for. It's a tall task, but it is a task that every year the Crazies are not afraid to handle. Let's support them as they do.

Exiled_Devil
11-22-2009, 03:26 PM
I am one of the Cameron Crazies.


Radford brought a good crowd tonight, and they were very enthusiastic in the first 10 minutes with their cheers. But the Crazies responded each time. Chants of "air-ball" were greeted with "score-board, score-board." To be honest, what else do you expect us to do? We're up by 40 and the Radford fans are chanting "de-fense, de-fense." Forgive us if we're really not that interested in the Radford fans. Sometimes it's easier to ignore a little mosquito than throw a fit.


I realize you're not complaining, but understand that the Crazies don't really care if the Cameron Polites are disappointed with our antics. Until all the fans in the upper deck cheer just as hard as we do, you can't criticize us. I have observed many fans in the upper deck fall asleep during games. Many left the stadium with 6 minutes left to play today. We stayed until the end. A couple of games ago, I saw a fan in the upper deck reach down and slap a student in the head with his newspaper, presumably for something the kid yelled. Unacceptable. We're not your children. Do not hit us.

Again, there are a lot of home games each season. While you may want us to put on a show for the few games at which you are in CIS, we are there every game. Many of us waited in line for hours before this particular game. Don't forget that we are college students too, and have responsibilities to which we must attend. Duke was up by 40. We gave Andre lots of love ('Dre all Day! Dre' all day!). We ridiculed their player for his prior run-ins with the law. I felt we did a good job.

Finally, there is something to be said for tradition. It is tradition for us to call for the crazy towel guy each game. It is tradition for us to chant "our house, our house" on the last possession. And it's not exactly like the upper deck is without fault here, either. I personally don't like the trumpet guy, but he seems to play his "dun-dun-dun-dun-dun, charge!" tune about four to five times a game. I don't like the guy that throws candy; we're not 12 yrs old.

In conclusion, I'm not angry with you. But I certainly won't tolerate criticism of the Crazies. When the upper deck out-cheers the Crazies, and only then, will I accept a lecture from the ticketed fans.

We're all Duke fans here. All on the same side. But please don't criticize our effort.

First, until this new batch stops chanting "You suck", you going to criticisim after every game. And pretty soon, from Coach K.

Secondly, you don't seem to understand the relationship between the upstairs and the downstairs at Cameron. When I was downstairs, I was amazed and excited to be part of the event for all the people upstairs and in other sections. It's not about them being there for you.The Crazies make Cameron what it is, not the Iron Dukes (which is what you should call them - each one of them donated quite a bit annually to the athletic department for the privilege to buy the tickets for those games.) Don't misconstrue their role. The Crazies make Cameron wild, the Iron Dukes keep the lights on. Not that cheering upstairs isn't necessary, but the idea that Iron Dukes need to cheer as loudly as the Crazies to be able to Criticize misses a whole lot of the picture, as well as a lot of history.

That being said, I know that it gets tiring at a point in the game. Especially when the team is winning by a lot. However, I was shocked that there wasn't more of a reaction to some upstart fans from the other team getting in audible cheers in CIS.

I didn't catch the ridicule of the other teams player - good job. That's the kind of thing that the Crazies are great at, and its nice to hear it.

Newton_14
11-22-2009, 04:29 PM
I am one of the Cameron Crazies.



Finally, there is something to be said for tradition. It is tradition for us to call for the crazy towel guy each game. It is tradition for us to chant "our house, our house" on the last possession. And it's not exactly like the upper deck is without fault here, either. I personally don't like the trumpet guy, but he seems to play his "dun-dun-dun-dun-dun, charge!" tune about four to five times a game. I don't like the guy that throws candy; we're not 12 yrs old.

.

On the whole I agree with you and I am one of your biggest fans. I gave you props in my earlier post and your are right, Radford brought more student fans than I have ever seen in Cameron. They are a championship level team in their league and they obviously travel well.

I thought you guys were quite good yesterday.

But I do want to defend the older gentleman who wears his basketball hat and tosses candy to everyone (crazies and upperdeck). He is a very nice man and is passionate about his beloved Blue Devils and I am sure it makes his day to show up every game cheer the team, toss the candy, and enjoy his experience. And while you are certainly not a child I am sure to him he sees you as his adopted grandchildren that he is taking care of. If you don't enjoy the candy tossing, there is certainly nothing wrong with that, just don't look back at him and he want toss any to you.

But keep up the good work. Most agree that you guys/gals are the best in the country at what you do.

uh_no
11-22-2009, 05:00 PM
The Crazies make Cameron what it is, not the Iron Dukes (which is what you should call them - each one of them donated quite a bit annually to the athletic department for the privilege to buy the tickets for those games.) Don't misconstrue their role. The Crazies make Cameron wild, the Iron Dukes keep the lights on.

don't know how you live your life, but i as a student have no respect for someone who thinks they can criticize me simply because they are rich.

devilboomer
11-22-2009, 05:28 PM
First, until this new batch stops chanting "You suck", you going to criticisim after every game. And pretty soon, from Coach K.

Secondly, you don't seem to understand the relationship between the upstairs and the downstairs at Cameron. When I was downstairs, I was amazed and excited to be part of the event for all the people upstairs and in other sections. It's not about them being there for you.The Crazies make Cameron what it is, not the Iron Dukes (which is what you should call them - each one of them donated quite a bit annually to the athletic department for the privilege to buy the tickets for those games.) Don't misconstrue their role. The Crazies make Cameron wild, the Iron Dukes keep the lights on. Not that cheering upstairs isn't necessary, but the idea that Iron Dukes need to cheer as loudly as the Crazies to be able to Criticize misses a whole lot of the picture, as well as a lot of history.

That being said, I know that it gets tiring at a point in the game. Especially when the team is winning by a lot. However, I was shocked that there wasn't more of a reaction to some upstart fans from the other team getting in audible cheers in CIS.

I didn't catch the ridicule of the other teams player - good job. That's the kind of thing that the Crazies are great at, and its nice to hear it.

So you actually make a good point about the Iron Dukes keeping the lights on. Point well taken. I do respect that, and I agree that they do a great job of supporting this program financially.

The difference to me is that the Crazies aren't criticizing the "Iron Duke" upper deck (P.S. Why are the "Iron Dukes" wearing Carolina shirts up there?") for not being as loud as us. That's fine; we don't mind. What I am saying is that I won't tolerate the "Iron Dukes" criticizing us for not being entertaining enough. Remember that this entire discussion started with a criticism of the Crazies.

Finally, please kind in mind that the Crazies are college students. We pay in excess of $40k for tuition per year. You can criticize the players -- they are on full scholarship and thus maybe you could justify something like a critique of their lack of effort. You can criticize the coaching staff -- they get a paycheck from the program. You can't criticize the Crazies -- we pay a buttload to go to school here, and we are certainly not at the game to entertain the Iron Dukes.

Exiled_Devil
11-22-2009, 05:40 PM
don't know how you live your life, but i as a student have no respect for someone who thinks they can criticize me simply because they are rich.

Wow. I'm not rich. I'm just paying for tickets. I sit in the second worst set of seats in the entire building. It's my first year, and I'm psyched to finally afford them. And that's not why I feel I can criticize the Crazies.

I feel I can criticize the Crazies because I have been part of that group. You have just joined a group that represents me and all Duke fans, especially those of us who have been on the floor in the past. The criticism comes from not being able to join in and change the behavior, but wanting to have an influence on the greatness down there. Heck, I'd trade my seat with a crazy any game - I miss being down there.

Basically, lots if still feel a sense of 'we' with the Crazies, rather than an us-them. Someone said we are all one fanbase, and comments about what the Crazies are doing are grounded in that unity.

For the record - I was there when Coach K threatened to forfeit an early season game because of Crazies behavior, so I do expect him to say something at some point about the 'you suck'. However, I think that the drive to re-invigorate Cameron will hold his hand for a while as volume and energy increases.

devilboomer
11-22-2009, 05:43 PM
But I do want to defend the older gentleman who wears his basketball hat and tosses candy to everyone (crazies and upperdeck). He is a very nice man and is passionate about his beloved Blue Devils and I am sure it makes his day to show up every game cheer the team, toss the candy, and enjoy his experience. And while you are certainly not a child I am sure to him he sees you as his adopted grandchildren that he is taking care of. If you don't enjoy the candy tossing, there is certainly nothing wrong with that, just don't look back at him and he want toss any to you.

But keep up the good work. Most agree that you guys/gals are the best in the country at what you do.

Fair enough. His heart is in the right place, and I get that. It should be noted that some of the students appear to like the candy, too. :)

I think we can all agree that we're on the same team here. Let's just go easy on the criticism -- both ways. Remember that it's early in the school year, and you can't expect the Crazies to have the precision and volume of the UNC/Duke game at the 4th game of the year.

godukecom
11-22-2009, 05:49 PM
Another issue I have (on a slightly different note)....

I was lucky enough to get tickets as a gift for the Radford game. I have been a Duke basketball fan for a very long time and am LCUKY to go to ONE SINGLE GAME each season. I am appaled to see the number of empty seats at the games such as the one yesterday. I would give anything to sit in some of those seats at these cupcake games, yet some season ticket holders seem to only want to go to the more "importiant" games.

Just my $0.02

Stray Gator
11-22-2009, 06:38 PM
So you actually make a good point about the Iron Dukes keeping the lights on. Point well taken. I do respect that, and I agree that they do a great job of supporting this program financially.

The difference to me is that the Crazies aren't criticizing the "Iron Duke" upper deck (P.S. Why are the "Iron Dukes" wearing Carolina shirts up there?") for not being as loud as us. That's fine; we don't mind. What I am saying is that I won't tolerate the "Iron Dukes" criticizing us for not being entertaining enough. Remember that this entire discussion started with a criticism of the Crazies.

Finally, please kind in mind that the Crazies are college students. We pay in excess of $40k for tuition per year. You can criticize the players -- they are on full scholarship and thus maybe you could justify something like a critique of their lack of effort. You can criticize the coaching staff -- they get a paycheck from the program. You can't criticize the Crazies -- we pay a buttload to go to school here, and we are certainly not at the game to entertain the Iron Dukes.

Enough already with what you "won't tolerate."

1. Not a season goes by without messages being posted on this board by current students criticizing the season ticket holders who sit upstairs for failing to show sufficient "spirit."

2. The people who sit upstairs deserve the respect of current students not only because they provide financial support that is essential to maintain the excellence of the basketball program, but because they are the predecessors who created and developed all of those traditions that current students are privileged to enjoy perpetuating. Someday in the future, when you're among those sitting upstairs, perhaps you'll understand and appreciate why the alumni Iron Dukes feel that they have a personal "investment" in the uniqueness of the Cameron experience that is more than pecuniary--and feel some justification for voicing their desire to see that investment preserved and protected...and, yes, respected.

3. Consider the possibility that the people upstairs aren't simply criticizing the students for "not being entertaining enough" to satisfy the season ticket holders, but rather for not providing the level of support to our team and our players and our coaches that *they* deserve. If alumni like us can take time away from our busy jobs and travel to Durham to attend games and cheer the Blue Devils, forgive us if we think less of the students who can't be inconvenienced to put aside the books for 2-3 hours to walk across campus and support their team when the corners of the student section are empty.

4. The argument that current students are immune to criticism because they pay $40k per year, or at least a "buttload," to attend Duke, is pretty weak. In the first place, if it's true that *you* are paying $40k per year to go to Duke, then you are a rarity among your classmates. Approximately half of all Duke students receive financial aid--much of which comes from the Annual Fund contributions made by those of us who are Iron Dukes. The remainder of students' expenses is paid mainly by their parents. Second, I assume you are aware that the $40k per year tuition being by you (or on your behalf) covers only a portion of the actual costs of your Duke education. That $40k per year that Duke charges is a bargain for what you receive--and I say that as a parent who has paid the full cost for two children to attend Duke.

I hope that there are some current students who understand and appreciate that they are privileged to attend Duke, and to have the opportunity to stand courtside in Cameron enjoying and being a part of the finest experience in college basketball, largely due to the contributions of those people whose criticism you "won't tolerate."

allenmurray
11-22-2009, 07:33 PM
We are all on the same side, we should all strive to be the best fans possible and not fight with each other.

That being said:

1. There should be NO Michael Buffer (keep writing the letters).
2. All Duke fans should be loud and support their team.
3. Fans upstairs should not attack the students (and vice versa).
4. There should never be an empty seat in the building
5. Save for the handicapped and those physically unable to stand who should be put in the front, there should be no seats in the upper deck. Bleachers to jump on would be acceptable.
6. The doors should be locked from the inside so that you cannot leave Cameron until the game is over.
7. If you find a way to escape the doors before the game is over, the Iron Dukes should act appropriately.
8. Iron Dukes should not sell tickets to the opponents fans, ever. There are always Duke fans who would buy the tickets and the Iron Dukes ticket exchange.
9. Go to every game you possibly can. If you can't, make sure a Duke fan can go for you (see #8).
10. GTHC

Just my early morning rant and $ .02 after reading this thread.

1. I can't stand Buffer. But I wonder what the players think. If they are for it I think our criticism is misplaced.

5. There is a lot of ground between jump on bleachers for the entire three hours and being physically handicapped. Maybe as you age above whatever age yuo are you'll understand this. Folks in the stands who are in their 50s, 60s, 70s, or 80s, who have been supporting Duke since long before you were born, are not going to stand for every game, and the expectation that they should is just dumb.

6. Fire Marshall?

weezie
11-22-2009, 07:39 PM
I love Stray Gator and all our young Devils current and alums.

All valid points of view, even from different angles. "Alls" I know is, I went, I "gradiated", I'm an Iron Duke, I cheer, I bleed the dark blue and frankly don't worry too much about what the guy next to me is wearing or mulling over. And you youngsters down in the bleachers, have fun and make noise; better enjoy yourselves while you can because it's over in a flash and pretty soon you'll be fussing at the next crop of youngsters bringing up the rear.

Kimist
11-22-2009, 08:03 PM
don't know how you live your life, but i as a student have no respect for someone who thinks they can criticize me simply because they are rich.

...I think this type of comment is both unfounded and unnecessary.

k

-jk
11-22-2009, 08:12 PM
I love Stray Gator and all our young Devils current and alums.

All valid points of view, even from different angles. "Alls" I know is, I went, I "gradiated", I'm an Iron Duke, I cheer, I bleed the dark blue and frankly don't worry too much about what the guy next to me is wearing or mulling over. And you youngsters down in the bleachers, have fun and make noise; better enjoy yourselves while you can because it's over in a flash and pretty soon you'll be fussing at the next crop of youngsters bringing up the rear.

This might be my favorite thought in this whole thread.

-jk

Jumbo
11-22-2009, 08:41 PM
Finally, there is something to be said for tradition. It is tradition for us to call for the crazy towel guy each game. It is tradition for us to chant "our house, our house" on the last possession.

Do you even know when this "tradition" of "our house" started Because as far as traditions go, it's not exactly a long one.

devilboomer
11-22-2009, 08:47 PM
Enough already with what you "won't tolerate."

1. Not a season goes by without messages being posted on this board by current students criticizing the season ticket holders who sit upstairs for failing to show sufficient "spirit."

2. The people who sit upstairs deserve the respect of current students not only because they provide financial support that is essential to maintain the excellence of the basketball program, but because they are the predecessors who created and developed all of those traditions that current students are privileged to enjoy perpetuating. Someday in the future, when you're among those sitting upstairs, perhaps you'll understand and appreciate why the alumni Iron Dukes feel that they have a personal "investment" in the uniqueness of the Cameron experience that is more than pecuniary--and feel some justification for voicing their desire to see that investment preserved and protected...and, yes, respected.

3. Consider the possibility that the people upstairs aren't simply criticizing the students for "not being entertaining enough" to satisfy the season ticket holders, but rather for not providing the level of support to our team and our players and our coaches that *they* deserve. If alumni like us can take time away from our busy jobs and travel to Durham to attend games and cheer the Blue Devils, forgive us if we think less of the students who can't be inconvenienced to put aside the books for 2-3 hours to walk across campus and support their team when the corners of the student section are empty.

4. The argument that current students are immune to criticism because they pay $40k per year, or at least a "buttload," to attend Duke, is pretty weak. In the first place, if it's true that *you* are paying $40k per year to go to Duke, then you are a rarity among your classmates. Approximately half of all Duke students receive financial aid--much of which comes from the Annual Fund contributions made by those of us who are Iron Dukes. The remainder of students' expenses is paid mainly by their parents. Second, I assume you are aware that the $40k per year tuition being by you (or on your behalf) covers only a portion of the actual costs of your Duke education. That $40k per year that Duke charges is a bargain for what you receive--and I say that as a parent who has paid the full cost for two children to attend Duke.

I hope that there are some current students who understand and appreciate that they are privileged to attend Duke, and to have the opportunity to stand courtside in Cameron enjoying and being a part of the finest experience in college basketball, largely due to the contributions of those people whose criticism you "won't tolerate."

Despite my effort to show equanimity in this discussion, as well as my attempts to remain respectful in my discourse, it appears that many of those seated in the upper deck remain angry. I apologize. It seems that these responses will continue ad infinitum, so I will go ahead and sign off from this discussion after this post, as not much progress is being made.

To the many individuals that have PM'd me to tell me that the Cameron Crazies are doing an excellent job: I thank you. I am grateful for your support, and I truly feel that although we may disagree on some of the traditions in Cameron, we are a part of the same team. I know a lot of the people in the upper deck cheer their hearts out, and I know that many of you are former Crazies. Keep on keepin' on.

To the Iron Dukes that keep Duke basketball and Cameron afloat, thank you for your generous financial support. The new video screens in Cameron are a nice touch, and I agree with Coach K that the blue seats in the upper deck look great.

To the individuals seated in the upper deck that are disappointed in the Cameron Crazies, I am truly sorry. Please understand that this is still early in the year, and the transition between departed Seniors and incoming Freshman is at times tough. We are still learning. We will get louder. I try to go to as many games as I can. But I have class, and I have tests, and sometimes...other things in life are more important.

To Stray Gator: Let's change "I will not tolerate" to "I will ignore," re: criticism of the Cameron Crazies. Perhaps that language is more palatable. Please understand that I did not intend to criticize the Iron Dukes for being too quiet. Take a step back and realize that I am on the defensive here. This entire discussion was started as a criticism of the Cameron Crazies, and I am merely defending myself as a CC. Kind of a "pot calling the kettle black" type of argument. I chose to use the stronger language of "I will not tolerate," as I was fired up about the Iron Duke that I saw reach down and smack a student on the head. This angered me deeply.

Regarding your comments about the "corners of the student section" being empty, I believe this was primarily for the Monday and Tuesday NIT games. I've been to all 4 games so far, and the non-NIT games were packed. I only mention this distinction because the NIT games are not technically home games, but rather Cameron is serving as an official NIT host site. Thus, the visiting band was allotted a number of tickets, as well as a substantial number of their fans.

Finally, you bring up an excellent point about finances. I am indeed on financial aid. Part of my money comes from scholarship. Part of my money comes from grants, which are provided by donors. I know this because I have the name of the husband and wife who donated to my grant fund, and I have sent them a thank you letter in order to express my gratitude. I genuinely understand and appreciate their contributions to my future. Part of my money comes from federal loans. I won't thank anybody for that, because they charge me interest. The last part of my money comes from my parents. I do feel obliged to them because of this, and because of the hundreds of thousands of dollars that it has taken them to raise me. If my parents want me to cheer louder at Cameron, I will certainly do so. But they don't know much about Duke basketball.

I hope that this last point is clear. I understand that a lot of the Iron Dukes donate money to financial aid for students. This is very good, and very important if we want to make the Duke education affordable for all -- which it should be. But your function as a donor to the Annual Fund, and as a member of the Iron Dukes, are distinctly separate, right? I'm assuming the answer is yes, in which case my defense to the criticism of the Iron Dukes (re: the level of Cameron Craziness) has nothing to do with their capacity as Annual Fund donors. I can disagree with my parent's political views, for example, and still love and appreciate them...no?

Jumbo
11-22-2009, 09:01 PM
The difference to me is that the Crazies aren't criticizing the "Iron Duke" upper deck (P.S. Why are the "Iron Dukes" wearing Carolina shirts up there?") for not being as loud as us. That's fine; we don't mind. What I am saying is that I won't tolerate the "Iron Dukes" criticizing us for not being entertaining enough. Remember that this entire discussion started with a criticism of the Crazies.

Finally, please kind in mind that the Crazies are college students. We pay in excess of $40k for tuition per year. You can criticize the players -- they are on full scholarship and thus maybe you could justify something like a critique of their lack of effort. You can criticize the coaching staff -- they get a paycheck from the program. You can't criticize the Crazies -- we pay a buttload to go to school here, and we are certainly not at the game to entertain the Iron Dukes.

Pardon me? You won't "tolerate" it? Bwahahahaah!!! And you're above reproach because you pay a lot to go to school? Man, oh man.

First, no one is saying you guys aren't being "entertaining" enough. No, I think most people are saying that the Crazies, as a whole, have been lame, and are getting lamer each year. Please understand that this is a blanket statement. There are "The Crazies" and there are individual Crazies. For all I know, you, personally, are part of the solution, rather than the problem. However, you don't seem to be recognizing the problem. So let me try again.

The job of the Crazies is not to entertain. It is to influence the outcome of the game. To do that, first and foremost, it is helpful to understand basketball. As I, and others have mentioned, the "Basketball IQ" of the student section has declined in recent years, to the point where quite often, students don't know how to react to specific situations and don't even realize what is going on.

It is problematic when students aren't going to the games because they like basketball and want to help the team, but because they like the spectacle of a Duke basketball game, like being seen, like being on TV. That doesn't help anyone. And we both know there are people like that out there.

You're not getting criticism simply from Iron Dukes in the building. Alums of various ages have expressed these sentiments in conversations with me and on this board. Non-alums who happen to be Duke fans also agree. The people sitting upstairs make up a tiny percentage of those with deep, personal investments in Duke Basketball. And, as K reminds us -- and you -- every year, the Crazies are part of Duke Basketball.

So, the marching orders for Crazies are pretty simple, and have carried on for ages until the decline we've seen in recent years:

1) Learn the game. If you're willing to stand in line and camp out, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out what's happening on the court, too. And if you know the game, teach the game to others.

2) React to the game. Understand what a good play is and reward it. Understand what a bad play is and react accordingly. Get on the refs. Get on the other team. Get in the game.

3) Be loud. This is more important that anything else. Constant noise is the best weapon you have against the other team.

4) Be creative. It's not about entertaining -- it's about distracting the opposition. You can influence the outcome of a game by getting a player to divert some of his focus from the cout onto you. Usually, a creative, unexpected approach is the best way to do that. "You suck" doesn't qualify.

5) Be spontaneous. If you know the game, and are trying to be creative, moments will arise where the perfect response is in order. Sometimes, the response might be so good that it will morph into a "tradition" (hint: that's how "Our House" got started). Other times, a one-time thing just works out perfectly. This is hardly the stuff of legend, but it does stick out in my mind: Duke was hosting Clemson during the 1998-99 season, and got off to a sluggish start, especially by the standards of a team that was routinely beating everyone by 30. Anyway, at some point, Andrius Jurkunas of Clemson nailed Trajan Langdon with an elbow the face. Trajan hit the deck and was bleeding. And the students reacted almost instantly with a "De-por-ta-tion" chant. The Crazies were angry. The team was angry. And that Lithuanian ignited a fire that fused the two groups into one. Duke went on something like a 34-2 run, and the crowd and the players fed off one another's collective anger. It was great. It was spontaneous. It woke the team up.

Sorry, but when you sit in that student section, you are representing a lot more than just yourself. You're part of a deep, valued tradition and you are representing the school in a major way. So, no, you are not above reproach -- not even close. Step up your game. And if your game is strong, find a way to help your friends.

Jumbo
11-22-2009, 09:14 PM
To the individuals seated in the upper deck that are disappointed in the Cameron Crazies, I am truly sorry. Please understand that this is still early in the year, and the transition between departed Seniors and incoming Freshman is at times tough. We are still learning. We will get louder. I try to go to as many games as I can. But I have class, and I have tests, and sometimes...other things in life are more important.


I don't understand why you keep characterizing this debate as "Crazies" and "Iron Dukes/people in the upper deck." You realize the vast, vast, vast majority of Duke fans -- both alums and non-alums -- don't fall into either camp, as they aren't able to get into a building that seats less than 10,000 fans and is situated in a different city from where the vast, vast majority of these fans live, right? They care about this stuff too.

Duvall
11-22-2009, 09:16 PM
They care about this stuff too.

That much is obvious. Understanding why is much more difficult.

Duvall
11-22-2009, 09:21 PM
It is problematic when students aren't going to the games because they like basketball and want to help the team, but because they like the spectacle of a Duke basketball game, like being seen, like being on TV.

Why?


So, the marching orders for Crazies are pretty simple, and have carried on for ages until the decline we've seen in recent years:

Recent? In what, geologic time?

People have been complaining about the decline of the student section for decades now, and will continue to do so for decades more. Why they don't reserve their attention for the actual basketball team is beyond me.

Jumbo
11-22-2009, 09:32 PM
Why?



Recent? In what, geologic time?

People have been complaining about the decline of the student section for decades now, and will continue to do so for decades more. Why they don't reserve their attention for the actual basketball team is beyond me.

Because some of us actually buy into the notion -- which, apparently you'll mock as you do so many other things -- that the Crazies are an extension of the team. And we want the team to do well.

In the late 90s/first couple of years of this decade, there weren't nearly as many complaints about the Crazies as today, and the nature of the complaints were different. Back then, there was great interaction between the alums and the students, in fact. Remember the whole "More Random in Cameron" push? That gorilla costume that kept getting passed around, from students to grad students to Ozzie, even? That was great stuff. The Phalanx was great, as you know, and fans/alums certainly weren't complaining about them.

There is a decided difference if you attend a Duke game now even compared to five years ago. Part of that is the natural order of things. Part of that is the evolution of the student body, which is a complex issue and a conversation more appropriate with admissions officers. But part of it also is a resentfulness on the part of students being asked to live up to the expectations of those who came before them. And the fact that these same students rip Coach K for not recruiting as well as he did in the past or the team for not performing as they did in the past is, well, quite amusing. Or sad. Not really sure.

Stray Gator
11-22-2009, 09:43 PM
Despite my effort to show equanimity in this discussion, as well as my attempts to remain respectful in my discourse, it appears that many of those seated in the upper deck remain angry. I apologize. It seems that these responses will continue ad infinitum, so I will go ahead and sign off from this discussion after this post, as not much progress is being made.

To the many individuals that have PM'd me to tell me that the Cameron Crazies are doing an excellent job: I thank you. I am grateful for your support, and I truly feel that although we may disagree on some of the traditions in Cameron, we are a part of the same team. I know a lot of the people in the upper deck cheer their hearts out, and I know that many of you are former Crazies. Keep on keepin' on.

To the Iron Dukes that keep Duke basketball and Cameron afloat, thank you for your generous financial support. The new video screens in Cameron are a nice touch, and I agree with Coach K that the blue seats in the upper deck look great.

To the individuals seated in the upper deck that are disappointed in the Cameron Crazies, I am truly sorry. Please understand that this is still early in the year, and the transition between departed Seniors and incoming Freshman is at times tough. We are still learning. We will get louder. I try to go to as many games as I can. But I have class, and I have tests, and sometimes...other things in life are more important.

To Stray Gator: Let's change "I will not tolerate" to "I will ignore," re: criticism of the Cameron Crazies. Perhaps that language is more palatable. Please understand that I did not intend to criticize the Iron Dukes for being too quiet. Take a step back and realize that I am on the defensive here. This entire discussion was started as a criticism of the Cameron Crazies, and I am merely defending myself as a CC. Kind of a "pot calling the kettle black" type of argument. I chose to use the stronger language of "I will not tolerate," as I was fired up about the Iron Duke that I saw reach down and smack a student on the head. This angered me deeply.

Regarding your comments about the "corners of the student section" being empty, I believe this was primarily for the Monday and Tuesday NIT games. I've been to all 4 games so far, and the non-NIT games were packed. I only mention this distinction because the NIT games are not technically home games, but rather Cameron is serving as an official NIT host site. Thus, the visiting band was allotted a number of tickets, as well as a substantial number of their fans.

Finally, you bring up an excellent point about finances. I am indeed on financial aid. Part of my money comes from scholarship. Part of my money comes from grants, which are provided by donors. I know this because I have the name of the husband and wife who donated to my grant fund, and I have sent them a thank you letter in order to express my gratitude. I genuinely understand and appreciate their contributions to my future. Part of my money comes from federal loans. I won't thank anybody for that, because they charge me interest. The last part of my money comes from my parents. I do feel obliged to them because of this, and because of the hundreds of thousands of dollars that it has taken them to raise me. If my parents want me to cheer louder at Cameron, I will certainly do so. But they don't know much about Duke basketball.

I hope that this last point is clear. I understand that a lot of the Iron Dukes donate money to financial aid for students. This is very good, and very important if we want to make the Duke education affordable for all -- which it should be. But your function as a donor to the Annual Fund, and as a member of the Iron Dukes, are distinctly separate, right? I'm assuming the answer is yes, in which case my defense to the criticism of the Iron Dukes (re: the level of Cameron Craziness) has nothing to do with their capacity as Annual Fund donors. I can disagree with my parent's political views, for example, and still love and appreciate them...no?

FWIW, I have never expressed any complaints about or dissatisfaction with the efforts of the students. Nor have I taken issue with students who complain that the people sitting upstairs should cheer more loudly and frequently. I've been on both sides of the rail, and have been around long enough to accept as inevitable that there will always be some alums who think the Crazies were "better" in their day, and will always be some students who think the alums/season ticket holders ought to be more "spirited." And I will defend the right of both camps to express their opinions--because even though I happen to think both views are misguided, I believe that both views are entitled to respect. Which is why I came out chomping when you said that you "won't tolerate" criticism from the Iron Dukes, and suggested that you owed them no respect because you're paying tuition of $40k per year to attend Duke.

Your observation that contributions to the Annual Fund and to the Iron Dukes are intended to serve different "functions" seems to miss the point. The Iron Duke contributions help make it possible for Duke to put championship caliber teams on the floor. The Annual Fund contributions help make it possible for Duke to provide the most creative, enthusiastic, dedicated, and deserving students an opportunity to surround that floor. Together, those elements help to make the Duke experience, of which games in Cameron are an integral part, uniquely enjoyable, and rewarding, and a source of pride for students and alumni and fans alike.

DevilHorns
11-22-2009, 09:47 PM
Im a pretty recent grad (c/o 2006) who still remembers his first game at Cameron. A game where some new dormmates and I were getting a little out of hand and regretfully shouting the erroneous curse word in a united 4 person cheer (hoping to get it carried by all the crazies) at some player on the other team. We were quickly shushed from the row right above us (the paid seats), and from some crazies a few rows below that were not freshmen. At first I thought that they were simply on their high horse, but thats because I didn't know the Cameron tradition and all the values that you are due to carry as a crazie.

The first few games of the year have a steep learning curve from the crazies perspective. A lot of freshmen are naturally lost and are looking for direction for not only the cheers, but for general loudness and coordination. Some want to be spontaneous and contributatory, but don't know whats going too far. They may not have the pace of some cheers right, the hand movements, but most of all, many don't understand that its is an unapologietic duty as a crazie to be continously loud and annoying to the other team. Its easy to cheer the team in coordination on offense, and sadly for many crazies, thats the limit to their contribution. What makes a real crazie is continous bobbing up and down on every defensive posession, to continously be loud throughout the game even when things arent going Duke's way. IMO, if you don't lose your voice every game, you're not doing it right.

I have been disappointed this year watching some of the games on tv and seeing a lot of the crazies just standing there, but most disappointing is that there are empty sections in the corners.

I think it may be time for some of the Kville line monitors (or maybe an alum) to submit an op-ed to the Chronicle explaining whats expected of a crazie.

JaMarcus Russell
11-22-2009, 09:56 PM
I have been disappointed this year watching some of the games on tv and seeing a lot of the crazies just standing there, but most disappointing is that there are empty sections in the corners.

Did this occur in any game besides the two Preseason NIT games? There is a logical explanation for those two games, and it has nothing to do with the student body's changing demographics, allegedly poor recruiting, or any other controversial issue.

Duvall
11-22-2009, 10:03 PM
Because some of us actually buy into the notion -- which, apparently you'll mock as you do so many other things -- that the Crazies are an extension of the team. And we want the team to do well.

Why would I mock something so obviously false? The Crazies don't have to attend practices, don't have to figure out how to guard future NBA players, don't have to play through injuries. The fans come to the stadium, root for Duke and go back to their lives. I'm a bit troubled by the sense of entitlement that comes from the belief that fans are part of the team and participants in the game. We aren't.


In the late 90s/first couple of years of this decade, there weren't nearly as many complaints about the Crazies as today, and the nature of the complaints were different. Back then, there was great interaction between the alums and the students, in fact. Remember the whole "More Random in Cameron" push? That gorilla costume that kept getting passed around, from students to grad students to Ozzie, even? That was great stuff. The Phalanx was great, as you know, and fans/alums certainly weren't complaining about them.

This simply isn't true. There were plenty of complaints about the Crazies back then, and well before that. If you were around for the beginning of the "More Random in Cameron" silliness, you'll recall that it sprang from a concern that the cheers in Cameron had become too routinized and stale - precisely the same kind of tiresome second-guessing of the students that we see today.

There may be less interaction now between students and alumni here, at this site, but I think that's just because today's youth don't spend much time on Web 1.0 sites like this. The students are on sites like Facebook and the alumni are on sites like this, and the two groups don't cross paths as often as they did during the brief period when the Internet was popular but still fairly small.


There is a decided difference if you attend a Duke game now even compared to five years ago.

Decided, but apparently not quantifiable or easily described, apparently.

I've attended games this year, and five years ago, and ten years ago, and fifteen. And frankly, the differences haven't been that great. The students come in, and root for Duke, and then they leave. Everything else is just details.


Part of that is the natural order of things. Part of that is the evolution of the student body, which is a complex issue and a conversation more appropriate with admissions officers. But part of it also is a resentfulness on the part of students being asked to live up to the expectations of those who came before them.

To be honest, I don't blame them for being resentful. They shouldn't have to live up to the amorphous and ill-defined expectations of strangers (Be random, but don't draw attention to yourself! Be knowledgeable, but for God's sake don't try to share that knowledge in printed form!)

I wish this nonsense would just go away. It's a tedious argument that was going on years ago when some of us attended Duke, and will continue to rage well into the future. It would be nice to think that the day might come when people would find some more worthy subject for concern, but at this point I'm not optimistic.

DevilHorns
11-22-2009, 10:10 PM
Did this occur in any game besides the two Preseason NIT games? There is a logical explanation for those two games, and it has nothing to do with the student body's changing demographics, allegedly poor recruiting, or any other controversial issue.

That definitely could be true. I was not aware that the corners were limited because of the pre-NIT games.

I do think that the intensity of the crazies isn't quite up to what the fanbase expects, though.

I hate the changing demographic explanation. I heard the changing demographic explanation when I was a freshmen, and remember feeling irked about it. The freshmen crazies will evolve and become "better", especially if they are given guidance from upperclassmen and general encouragement/rules from line monitors (as I was). Many of us diehards tend to forget that most of these freshmen were not Duke fans until they decided to attend, let alone college bball fans. Its hard to take a random 18 year old and expect them to know exactly how to be a crazie versus just watch an enjoyable game and cheer as they do at any other sporting event. The power of the crazie (as Jumbo implies) is to be able to change the game. It takes a bit to buy into that, especially early on as a freshman.

devil84
11-22-2009, 10:17 PM
What Stray said.

I'd like to add just a little bit to that. When someone voices an opinion that is contrary to yours, it is not automatically a slam against your or the group you represent. They would have HAPPILY paid dearly to sit in that seat! A poster who remarks that they wonder why every student wouldn't want to stroll over to Cameron for a couple of hours to watch a game isn't necessarily saying that every student SHOULD do that. It may be because they drive hours one way (or even fly in) for every game, go through major logistics hurdles with work/family/other activities, have fond memories of going to every game during their years at Duke, or wish they could experience Cameron for the first time in their life but can't get a ticket.

Likewise, when a student says that the upstairs should be more involved, it's probably coming from the student loving the experience so much, they can't understand why everyone in the building wouldn't want to be as involved.

When the people upstairs say that something was different in their time, perhaps it's meant either as a reminiscence or as a "this worked really well while I was there" remark instead of a demand to do it that way. When the upstairs says to slow down, perhaps it's because they want to join in, but by the time they figure out what the students are saying, it's too fast to join in -- in other words, they are asking for help to be what the students want them to be.

Students noting that they pay "a buttload" to go to Duke and are therefore immune to criticism need to realize that some of the Iron Dukes upstairs pay as much or more each year for the privilege of purchasing tickets, which funds a good portion of this activity. If it's how much one pays that makes one immune from criticism, then by the same logic, much of the upstairs should be immune, too. To be fair, not all of the upstairs are Iron Dukes -- faculty and staff can purchase tickets, and others (perhaps those wearing the wrong shade of blue) purchased the tickets from ticket holders that realize that people will pay handsomely for the ability to witness the Cameron experience.

And, quite frankly, the OP was lamenting the new intros and the plethora of ads. It seems like very few people here like the new intros -- doesn't matter where you are in Cameron. The ads, well, that's a fact of the recession and it keeps all of our expenses in check, so we'll grin and bear it (but we don't have to love it). We've veered WAY off of that topic.

Let's play nice. We're all on the same team. How about considering that people's opinions can differ from yours. Why not give a little constructive advice from one fan to another, whether student, alumni, major donor, or simply a rabid fan? Cameron's one of the best sports venues in the country, and some posts in this thread have degenerated into bickering about which opinions should matter more? Geez, what a sense of entitlement.

77devil
11-22-2009, 10:38 PM
That much is obvious. Understanding why is much more difficult.

It's obvious for the alums. I guess you're referring to others, and it's really not that difficult to understand.

Jumbo
11-22-2009, 11:39 PM
Why would I mock something so obviously false? The Crazies don't have to attend practices, don't have to figure out how to guard future NBA players, don't have to play through injuries. The fans come to the stadium, root for Duke and go back to their lives. I'm a bit troubled by the sense of entitlement that comes from the belief that fans are part of the team and participants in the game. We aren't.

"Sense of entitlement" -- really? If anything, it's quite the opposite. No one here feels "entitled" to be part of the team or participants in the game ... they are regularly urged to adopt those roles by Mike Krzyzewski who, last I checked, is the coach of Duke's basketball team. So I'd say he wants the fans involved. Sense of entitlement? No way. Sense of ownership? Absolutely -- as encouraged by the coach. Perhaps you don't want to be a part of that connection. Perhaps you think it's all bunk. But there are plenty of people who don't look at it as bunk, including said coach, and for those people, that relationship between coach/player/fan is at the core of the Duke basketball experience. For you to dismiss the influence of fans by pointing out that they don't go to practices, etc., is a good, old-fashioned, DBR-quality strawman.




This simply isn't true. There were plenty of complaints about the Crazies back then, and well before that. If you were around for the beginning of the "More Random in Cameron" silliness, you'll recall that it sprang from a concern that the cheers in Cameron had become too routinized and stale - precisely the same kind of tiresome second-guessing of the students that we see today.

Actually, I remember the "More Random In Cameron" stuff (you reveal your true convictions here by calling it "silliness") as largely a student-initiated movement. As I recall, WI Dukie was heavily involved, as well as a lot of other old-time DBR posters that you know and love, like Drs. Mullet and Viking. And I recall the biggest issue being debated was too many cheers directed at individual players. Again, students were pushing for more originality, rather than the complaints coming only from other quarters. And, the most important distinction is that even then, no one was questioning the students' knowledge or passion. That's a much bigger issue now, and it's easy to see at any game. If you've been to games recently, and can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.


I've attended games this year, and five years ago, and ten years ago, and fifteen. And frankly, the differences haven't been that great. The students come in, and root for Duke, and then they leave. Everything else is just details.
The details are what separate the Crazies from every other student section in the country. Unless you find that notion to be misguided as well.


To be honest, I don't blame them for being resentful. They shouldn't have to live up to the amorphous and ill-defined expectations of strangers (Be random, but don't draw attention to yourself! Be knowledgeable, but for God's sake don't try to share that knowledge in printed form!)

I wish this nonsense would just go away. It's a tedious argument that was going on years ago when some of us attended Duke, and will continue to rage well into the future. It would be nice to think that the day might come when people would find some more worthy subject for concern, but at this point I'm not optimistic.

All I can say is I never had an issue with any of these things until a couple of years ago. And my concerns are purely with the level of intensity and knowledge of the student section. You don't think they need to live up to any standard? Great. Then I suppose that if the people who allocate seats decide there should be a standard for the fans who surround the court, and decide that those seats should go to people who can bring it better, you'll have no problem with it, right?

Dukeface88
11-23-2009, 12:05 AM
What Stray said.

I'd like to add just a little bit to that. When someone voices an opinion that is contrary to yours, it is not automatically a slam against your or the group you represent. They would have HAPPILY paid dearly to sit in that seat! A poster who remarks that they wonder why every student wouldn't want to stroll over to Cameron for a couple of hours to watch a game isn't necessarily saying that every student SHOULD do that. It may be because they drive hours one way (or even fly in) for every game, go through major logistics hurdles with work/family/other activities, have fond memories of going to every game during their years at Duke, or wish they could experience Cameron for the first time in their life but can't get a ticket.

Likewise, when a student says that the upstairs should be more involved, it's probably coming from the student loving the experience so much, they can't understand why everyone in the building wouldn't want to be as involved.

When the people upstairs say that something was different in their time, perhaps it's meant either as a reminiscence or as a "this worked really well while I was there" remark instead of a demand to do it that way. When the upstairs says to slow down, perhaps it's because they want to join in, but by the time they figure out what the students are saying, it's too fast to join in -- in other words, they are asking for help to be what the students want them to be.

Students noting that they pay "a buttload" to go to Duke and are therefore immune to criticism need to realize that some of the Iron Dukes upstairs pay as much or more each year for the privilege of purchasing tickets, which funds a good portion of this activity. If it's how much one pays that makes one immune from criticism, then by the same logic, much of the upstairs should be immune, too. To be fair, not all of the upstairs are Iron Dukes -- faculty and staff can purchase tickets, and others (perhaps those wearing the wrong shade of blue) purchased the tickets from ticket holders that realize that people will pay handsomely for the ability to witness the Cameron experience.

And, quite frankly, the OP was lamenting the new intros and the plethora of ads. It seems like very few people here like the new intros -- doesn't matter where you are in Cameron. The ads, well, that's a fact of the recession and it keeps all of our expenses in check, so we'll grin and bear it (but we don't have to love it). We've veered WAY off of that topic.

Let's play nice. We're all on the same team. How about considering that people's opinions can differ from yours. Why not give a little constructive advice from one fan to another, whether student, alumni, major donor, or simply a rabid fan? Cameron's one of the best sports venues in the country, and some posts in this thread have degenerated into bickering about which opinions should matter more? Geez, what a sense of entitlement.

I concur with the above. We all need to remember that we're on the same side, and that none of us "own" Cameron; we just get to rent it for a while.

I think it may be worthwhile for the fans who aren't current students to understand that thier complaints have very real consequences for those of us who are: we lose seats. That might not matter so much now, but it will during ACC season. Now I realize that if we put more students in the seats this wouldn't happen, but to some degree, I think it leads to the snake eating its own tail.

To explain: to get into the season opener against UNCG, you needed to show up more than an hour and a half beforehand. I know this because I showed up that early and was turned away (along with several hundred other students). Now, as a senior, I knew that this was kind of a fluke caused by being the season opener and by being Greek night. Getting in line that early against a UNCG-type team would normally mean a decent seat; I also knew that if I came back at halftime I'd probably get in.

The freshmen don't know any of that. I am absolutely certain that there are freshmen (and maybe older students as well) that have a couple hours to go to a game, but don't have another couple of hours to wait in line beforehand, and don't realize that they generally don't need to. I know this, because it is what I thought my freshman year. I got turned away from the first game I tried to go to, and decided I didn't have that kind of time. So I didn't go. Even after my friends and I managed to get into the Clemson buzzer beater about 15 minutes before the game started (a game to which I will direct anyone with doubts about Scheyer's ability to make clutch assists), I thought that we had just gotten lucky. It wasn't until the next year I realized that situation wasn't unusual and started going to games regularly.

Which leads me to my point: if we hadn't lost the visitor's side seats this year, more students would have gotten in to the UNCG game. That means more coming to the other nonconference games, and eventually ACC play. Of course I understand the dilemna: allow the students to have those seats in the early games, knowing they won't be filled in hopes of a pay-off later, or put loyal fans into the seats (and cash into the athletic department's account) now, even if they might not be as...expressive...as the Crazies later down the line. I can't even say I entirely disagree with the administration's descision. I'm not sure if we deserve the seats in later games if we don't show up to support the team in the early season. The department is aparently in need of ticket revenue, and if filling the coffers means that more Duke fans get to see the games who otherwise wouldn't, it's hard to argue against that. We, particularly the upperclassmen, do need to do a better job of getting the rest of the students into Cameron. I'm just offering an explanation for why the current students are so defensive about percieved criticism.

ricks68
11-23-2009, 01:03 AM
I must say that the veterans just keep on adding to their reputations on the boards. Very inspiring posts from Stray, Jumbo, and jk. I think that Weezie really hit the nail on the head, however. Really short, sweet, and to the point. jk, maybe you need to create a new sticky of memorable posts that reminds us of what the essense of the boards is supposed to be. Stray and Jumbo, what good stuff.

And for those newbies that want to know what the reality of the situation is, please read that post #145 from Weezie. :)



ricks

Jumbo
11-23-2009, 01:44 AM
none of us "own" Cameron; we just get to rent it for a while.

I really like that phrase -- wish I'd thought of it.

Duvall
11-23-2009, 02:00 AM
Actually, I remember the "More Random In Cameron" stuff (you reveal your true convictions here by calling it "silliness") as largely a student-initiated movement. As I recall, WI Dukie was heavily involved, as well as a lot of other old-time DBR posters that you know and love, like Drs. Mullet and Viking. And I recall the biggest issue being debated was too many cheers directed at individual players.

Are you sure? I hope you are mistaken, because that really makes no sense. Correcting the "problem" of too many cheers aimed at players, at the game by introducing absurd elements that had nothing to do with Duke or basketball? I thought we were smarter than that, but I suppose I could have forgotten.


Again, students were pushing for more originality, rather than the complaints coming only from other quarters.

Those arguments are still going on now, you see them in the Chronicle from time to time. They just aren't going on here.


That's a much bigger issue now, and it's easy to see at any game. If you've been to games recently, and can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

What difference?

Look, the level of basketball knowledge for the Cameron crowd has been fairly superficial for a long time. Overenthusiastic freshmen are rarely experts on anything. But they are enthusiastic, and that's usually enough.


The details are what separate the Crazies from every other student section in the country. Unless you find that notion to be misguided as well.

I do, actually. Decades of television oversaturation has led just about every other student section in the country to shameless imitate the Crazies, and over the years they have become very good at it. Duke's advantage now lies mostly in superior camera angles.


All I can say is I never had an issue with any of these things until a couple of years ago. And my concerns are purely with the level of intensity and knowledge of the student section.

Maybe you didn't, but other people did. You don't have to poke around too long in the Chronicle web archives to see complaints about the intensity and enthusiasm of the crowd from each of the last fifteen years. It probably won't go back further if the paper had been on the web longer.


You don't think they need to live up to any standard? Great. Then I suppose that if the people who allocate seats decide there should be a standard for the fans who surround the court, and decide that those seats should go to people who can bring it better, you'll have no problem with it, right?

I'm not actually sure what you mean by this. Are you suggesting some kind of tryouts for student seats? That strikes me as a fairly absurd prospect and a great way to ensure that no one goes to games.

Unless you're suggesting selling the seats to people willing to pay their hard-earned money. I'd be fine with that; it seems like a perfectly good way to show enthusiasm to me.

Dukeface88
11-23-2009, 02:38 AM
Unless you're suggesting selling the seats to people willing to pay their hard-earned money. I'd be fine with that; it seems like a perfectly good way to show enthusiasm to me.


Really? Because I think it would mostly show personal income level. I'd like to keep the student body united for at least one campus event, thank you very much.

allenmurray
11-23-2009, 08:16 AM
. . . is an embarassment to DBR and to Duke. Were it taking place amongst any other fan base or on any other teams' fansite we would ruthlessly make fun of it/them. Long time posters and moderators insulting each other, young folks complaining about old folks (and vice versa), and everyone acting like petulant children. And all of them rehashing arguments that are decades old. "We were better! No we are better". "Tradition is the greatest of all human values. No - innovation is the greatest of all human values." And on and on.

The thread should be retitled "A good reason to be embarassed to be a DBR reader/poster or Duke fan".

sagegrouse
11-23-2009, 08:52 AM
Duke's advantage now lies mostly in superior camera angles.

I suppose one can say that about a lot of things at Duke: the visuals are impressive when you have a Gothic campus in a Georgian world.

The camera angles are due to the positioning of the student body, which I believe is your meaning. That and the small size of the arena bring about the noise and vibration, which are probably more important than the intelligence of the cheers. College hoops, after all, is not an English drawing room comedy.

sagegrouse

killerleft
11-23-2009, 10:17 AM
That much is obvious. Understanding why is much more difficult.

LOL. You come to "a fan's joint" to talk Duke Basketball and pretend you don't understand why there are fans? It goes without saying that you, for instance, don't cheer for the Red Sox if you don't live in Boston, right? Or is it that non-Bostonians can cheer but not have public opinions?

Either way, your statement feels like a veiled insult.

lpd1982
11-23-2009, 10:35 AM
. . . is an embarassment to DBR and to Duke. Were it taking place amongst any other fan base or on any other teams' fansite we would ruthlessly make fun of it/them. Long time posters and moderators insulting each other, young folks complaining about old folks (and vice versa), and everyone acting like petulant children. And all of them rehashing arguments that are decades old. "We were better! No we are better". "Tradition is the greatest of all human values. No - innovation is the greatest of all human values." And on and on.

The thread should be retitled "A good reason to be embarassed to be a DBR reader/poster or Duke fan".

Thank you!!!!!

MulletMan
11-23-2009, 11:28 AM
It is tradition for us to chant "our house, our house" on the last possession.

Point of order... this is not true. In the olden days ;) "Our House" was chanted mostly only when the team truly needed a pick me up... for example, down 7 or 8 to UNC in the 2nd half. Big comeback against Maryland, etc.

It sure as hell wasn't chanted when we are up by 40 against Radford.

The games, for a while, at the request of K, were closed out with a "Let's Go Duke" in the final seconds.

However, I will say that you can do whatever you want as a current Crazie, just don't think that everything that you know from you four years is "tradition".

SoCalDukeFan
11-23-2009, 12:37 PM
First of all, living in SoCal has lots of advantages but I am jealous of you guys who get to go to all of the games at Cameron. I wish that the worst thing in my live Duke viewing experience was not liking the player introductions rather than getting to go a game only once every couple of years.

Why not continue with the canned Buffer intros until Duke loses at home. Then switch, switch back the next time Duke loses.

I know this means you will probably have Buffer until say 2020 and then live for another 10 years but it could be fun.

SoCal

uh_no
11-23-2009, 12:54 PM
First of all, living in SoCal has lots of advantages but I am jealous of you guys who get to go to all of the games at Cameron. I wish that the worst thing in my live Duke viewing experience was not liking the player introductions rather than getting to go a game only once every couple of years.

Why not continue with the canned Buffer intros until Duke loses at home. Then switch, switch back the next time Duke loses.

I know this means you will probably have Buffer until say 2020 and then live for another 10 years but it could be fun.

SoCal


great post

Channing
12-06-2009, 01:22 AM
two observations/questions from Cameron this afternoon:

+1 on the "you suck" nonsense. I just don't get it, and some of the grad students were trying to get the Crazies to stop. Do the Crazies realize this is not an original cheer?

when did Rock Lobster get taken out of the rotation?

uh_no
12-06-2009, 02:44 AM
two observations/questions from Cameron this afternoon:

+1 on the "you suck" nonsense. I just don't get it, and some of the grad students were trying to get the Crazies to stop. Do the Crazies realize this is not an original cheer?

when did Rock Lobster get taken out of the rotation?

so your complaints on the you suck is that its not original?

perhaps we should also scratch 'lets go duke' 'our house' 'go to hell carolina' 'boing boing' 'defense' 'airball' and all the others for being unoriginal

if you would like to criticize that particular cheer, its not because of its lack of originality but for its failure to be a good cheer

Exiled_Devil
12-06-2009, 07:43 AM
so your complaints on the you suck is that its not original?

perhaps we should also scratch 'lets go duke' 'our house' 'go to hell carolina' 'boing boing' 'defense' 'airball' and all the others for being unoriginal

if you would like to criticize that particular cheer, its not because of its lack of originality but for its failure to be a good cheer

More than "You suck"not being original-- It's a Maryland staple. They had issues with it in 2001 or so. And emulating Maryland is never a good thing.

To a more significant point, "You Suck" is simply lazy and simple-minded. Heck, I'd be a little okay with translating it into Latin. At least that would be clever.

When I frequented Cameron, the crazies said "Hi, Name" to all the opposing players before pullingout embarrassing them. It was a much better way to go - like bumping gloves before a boxing match.

PumpkinFunk
12-06-2009, 09:24 AM
when did Rock Lobster get taken out of the rotation?

Relative rookie drum majors combined with the cheerleaders probably not asking for it is my guess

Channing
12-06-2009, 11:21 AM
so your complaints on the you suck is that its not original?

perhaps we should also scratch 'lets go duke' 'our house' 'go to hell carolina' 'boing boing' 'defense' 'airball' and all the others for being unoriginal

if you would like to criticize that particular cheer, its not because of its lack of originality but for its failure to be a good cheer

My point is that its not original to Duke. I am pretty sure that Lets Go Duke, go to hell carolina, and yes, even airball, are original ... to Duke. Boing boing and our house may or may not be original to Duke, I don't know, but they come out in the heat of the moment. As mentioned, we are copying Maryland ... MARYLAND!!

Acymetric
12-06-2009, 12:26 PM
Relative rookie drum majors combined with the cheerleaders probably not asking for it is my guess

Well, the band has also added new songs, which means they'll have to cut out some older ones (this is good, makes no sense to keep playing the same songs forever). Apparently Rock Lobster didn't make the cut, and while it was certainly entertaining I'm not too worried about losing it.

allenmurray
12-06-2009, 02:49 PM
I was fortunate enough to go to the game yesterday. It was my first opportunity to hear the Buffer player intros in person. While I didn't like them I certianly didn't think it was so awful as to have caused all of the consternation. And actually, when I looked at the players, they each smiled when their name was announced in that typical over-the-top Buffer style. I kind of got the feeling they liked it. Which may be just as important as whether we like it (or maybe, just maybe, even more important).

El_Diablo
12-06-2009, 03:01 PM
Well, the band has also added new songs, which means they'll have to cut out some older ones (this is good, makes no sense to keep playing the same songs forever). Apparently Rock Lobster didn't make the cut, and while it was certainly entertaining I'm not too worried about losing it.

I could've sworn I heard Rock Lobster played a couple times this season. The format is different than in years past: instead of having the cheerleaders scatter to all four sides of the court in groups of 2-3, they just all line up in front of the student section in one big group. It's not used at every game, so it has a reduced role, but it's not a complete cut! :)

PumpkinFunk--you're in the band, right? Can you confirm that you've played it a couple times earlier this season? Or am I going crazy?

blazindw
12-06-2009, 03:20 PM
I could've sworn I heard Rock Lobster played a couple times this season. The format is different than in years past: instead of having the cheerleaders scatter to all four sides of the court in groups of 2-3, they just all line up in front of the student section in one big group. It's not used at every game, so it has a reduced role, but it's not a complete cut! :)

PumpkinFunk--you're in the band, right? Can you confirm that you've played it a couple times earlier this season? Or am I going crazy?

It was played at the UNC-G game, and I was doing the entire dance in the stands, even replicating what the band does while playing it.

should_be_working
12-17-2009, 03:03 PM
I wasn't sure where to post this, but I had a question that some of you may be able to answer. I am going to my first game at Cameron in January (against Clemson) and I was wanting of course to bring my camera with me. Its a good sized camera, its a Nikon digital SLR with an extra lens for shots farther away. I guess it could be considered a "professional" type camera. Are these type cameras permitted in Cameron? I'd really like to bring it, but I also don't want to get there and be told that I can't bring it in. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!

Devil in the Blue Dress
12-17-2009, 04:18 PM
I wasn't sure where to post this, but I had a question that some of you may be able to answer. I am going to my first game at Cameron in January (against Clemson) and I was wanting of course to bring my camera with me. Its a good sized camera, its a Nikon digital SLR with an extra lens for shots farther away. I guess it could be considered a "professional" type camera. Are these type cameras permitted in Cameron? I'd really like to bring it, but I also don't want to get there and be told that I can't bring it in. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!

People bring a variety of cameras into Cameron and make pictures during their visits.. No flash pictures are allowed during the games. As is the case for all such venues today, bags are checked as one enters Cameron.

blazindw
12-17-2009, 04:36 PM
I wasn't sure where to post this, but I had a question that some of you may be able to answer. I am going to my first game at Cameron in January (against Clemson) and I was wanting of course to bring my camera with me. Its a good sized camera, its a Nikon digital SLR with an extra lens for shots farther away. I guess it could be considered a "professional" type camera. Are these type cameras permitted in Cameron? I'd really like to bring it, but I also don't want to get there and be told that I can't bring it in. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!

The camera itself is most likely allowed...however I'm not sure about the extra lens. That may not be allowed, especially if it's "professional". I'm not sure about that, though.

uh_no
12-17-2009, 04:44 PM
i would suggest shooting an email to the ticket office, they can probably tell you exactly what is and isn't allowed

devil84
12-17-2009, 05:07 PM
My daughter and her boyfriend routinely take their Nikon DSLRs into the game with extra lenses, and nobody has ever said anything, even when searching their camera bags (you will have to open them to show the contents). They don't have a "professional" ultra zoom extra lens -- more like just a "normal" extra lens.

Just be sure to turn off your flash. I have seen people told to turn them off.

should_be_working
12-17-2009, 05:12 PM
Thanks to everyone for the responses. Sounds like I should be ok, but I think I'll call/email just to make sure. I can't wait until January - I'm beyond excited!

El_Diablo
12-17-2009, 06:09 PM
Shout out to the Crazies for ditching the "you suck" chant en masse for the Gardner-Webb game.

uh_no
12-17-2009, 07:28 PM
Shout out to the Crazies for ditching the "you suck" chant en masse for the Gardner-Webb game.

well....its tough for the crazies to do much of anything when most of them are home for break....maybe you missed the fact that like 70% of the people in the student section were over 30

blazindw
12-17-2009, 07:29 PM
Probably cuz school's out of session and the majority of students are gone. This is the start of the 3-4 games where tickets were sold to the student section, so you had a lot of older alums, parents and little kids standing in the section.

El_Diablo
12-17-2009, 08:01 PM
well....its tough for the crazies to do much of anything when most of them are home for break....maybe you missed the fact that like 70% of the people in the student section were over 30

Uh, there were still a bunch of undergrads there, and all the grad students. But even if the number was that high (which it wasn't), then it still wouldn't change the fact that the rest still refrained from saying "you suck" (despite still knowing the other chants and cheers).

Maybe not a permanent change, but still...props for dropping it for this one game.

uh_no
12-18-2009, 12:22 AM
Uh, there were still a bunch of undergrads there, and all the grad students. But even if the number was that high (which it wasn't), then it still wouldn't change the fact that the rest still refrained from saying "you suck" (despite still knowing the other chants and cheers).

Maybe not a permanent change, but still...props for dropping it for this one game.

I think your giving credit where none is due. There was no collective action among crazies to drop it. I highly doubt many older alums (over say 25) are going to be chanting 'you suck' when there are 8 year old kids standing all about. Besides that, its a lot easier to catch onto 'lets go duke' than it is to catch on to 'you suck'

With cheer sheets gone, there is no longer an effective way to distribute information to crazies at the games, thus the 'you suck' will continue when the students return in january. You also may have noticed a decline in any cheers relevant to the team. This is directly correlated to the lack of the information on the sheets. Being to each home game (during a semester) for the last 3 years and being among the crazies, I can tell you, there is much less variation, much less heckling.

Sorry, that has nothing to do with this thread, but the fact remains that the 'you suck' has more to do with the lack of students than it does with any sort of collective action to stop saying 'you suck' at the will of the people on this board.

somf4eva
12-20-2009, 12:54 PM
My cousin currently attends Duke and is going to help me get into the game on the 29th. I was wondering about how to inquire about tickets. I emailed the ticket office and have not received a response.

During the Gardner-Webb game, I noticed many empty seats. Does anyone know if there are tickets available? This will be my first game at Cameron and my first time seeing Duke.

PumpkinFunk
12-20-2009, 01:16 PM
Well, the band has also added new songs, which means they'll have to cut out some older ones (this is good, makes no sense to keep playing the same songs forever). Apparently Rock Lobster didn't make the cut, and while it was certainly entertaining I'm not too worried about losing it.


I could've sworn I heard Rock Lobster played a couple times this season. The format is different than in years past: instead of having the cheerleaders scatter to all four sides of the court in groups of 2-3, they just all line up in front of the student section in one big group. It's not used at every game, so it has a reduced role, but it's not a complete cut! :)

PumpkinFunk--you're in the band, right? Can you confirm that you've played it a couple times earlier this season? Or am I going crazy?

As far as I know, we didn't cut Rock Lobster. Cheerleaders and students would go crazy if we did, at this point. There's always some change in songs, but some are most certainly sticking around, at least right now.

Devil in the Blue Dress
12-20-2009, 01:20 PM
My cousin currently attends Duke and is going to help me get into the game on the 29th. I was wondering about how to inquire about tickets. I emailed the ticket office and have not received a response.

During the Gardner-Webb game, I noticed many empty seats. Does anyone know if there are tickets available? This will be my first game at Cameron and my first time seeing Duke.

If there are tickets available to the public through the Ticket Office, you can buy them online on goduke.com through the ticket link. When there is no individual ticket information for sports listed, there are no tickets available through the Ticket Office. Currently the Ticket Office has no tickets available for the Long Beach State game. Prior to the game there may be people selling their tickets outside Cameron in the parking lots.

somf4eva
12-20-2009, 01:21 PM
If there are tickets available to the public through the Ticket Office, you can buy them online on goduke.com through the ticket link. When there is no individual ticket information for sports listed, there are no tickets available through the Ticket Office. Currently the Ticket Office has no tickets available for the Long Beach State game. Prior to the game there may be people selling their tickets outside Cameron in the parking lots.

ok, thats what i was assuming. thank you.