If Singler stays...

[houstondukie]

PG K. Irving - Fr
SG N. Smith - Sr
SF K. Singler - Sr
PF Mi. Plumlee - Jr
C Ma. Plumlee - So

Bench:
SG A. Dawkins - So
SG S. Curry - So
PF R. Kelly - So
PF J. Hairston - Fr
PG T. Thornton - Fr
SF O. Czyz - Jr

Even without Barnes, this team will most certainly compete for a national championship.

[CDu]

PG K. Irving - Fr
SG N. Smith - Sr
SF K. Singler - Sr
PF Mi. Plumlee - Jr
C Ma. Plumlee - So

Bench:
SG A. Dawkins - So
SG S. Curry - So
PF R. Kelly - So
PF J. Hairston - Fr
PG T. Thornton - Fr
SF O. Czyz - Jr

Even without Barnes, this team will most certainly compete for a national championship.

Yes, if Singler returns for his senior year, this team will be an elite team. It may be even without him, depending on what Irving, Curry, and Mason Plumlee bring. But it would be a truly great team if Singler returns.

[proelitedota]

At least 5 double digit scorers, and maybe 6 potentially. This team is going to KILL.

[airowe]

Absolutely agree and I think it is very likely that Singler returns...

[houstondukie]

PG K. Irving - Fr
SG N. Smith - Sr
SF K. Singler - Sr
PF Mi. Plumlee - Jr
C Ma. Plumlee - So

Bench:
SG A. Dawkins - So
SG S. Curry - So
PF R. Kelly - So
PF J. Hairston - Fr
PG T. Thornton - Fr
SF O. Czyz - Jr

Even without Barnes, this team will most certainly compete for a national championship.

Assuming that Ed Davis leaves after this year...

PG L. Drew Jr
SG D. Strickland So
SF H. Barnes Fr
PF J. Henson So
C T. Zeller Jr

Bench:

PG K. Marshall Fr
SG R. Bullock Fr
SG L. McDonald So
SF W. Graves Sr
PF D. Wear So
PF T. Wear So

Call me crazy, but I think Duke is the better team.

[Oriole Way]

No more ifs, please.

If Gerald Henderson stays, if Harrison Barnes commits... just wait for Singler to make his decision, and then speculate on how the rotation will look.

[Rich]

No more ifs, please.

If Gerald Henderson stays, if Harrison Barnes commits... just wait for Singler to make his decision, and then speculate on how the rotation will look.

Totally agree with OW! We played our first game of the 2009 season tonight and you're already thinking about the lineup in 2010? Is this year a lost cause already?

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Totally agree with OW! We played our first game of the 2009 season tonight and you're already thinking about the lineup in 2010? Is this year a lost cause already?


No, but it's easy to look at the potential of next year's team. If only Seth was eligible...

[RaleighDevil]

Hey Guys. Long time Duke fan and DBR follower…first time poster. I wanted to chime in on the Singler sticking around for senior year talk. I’m a Bball coach and I attended this year’s Duke coaches clinic. In one of the Q&A sessions a gentlemen asked K about setting goals and such for the season. Coach K answered that he certainly doesn’t set goals about how many games the team would/should win and said that it was so early that the team hadn’t set it’s own goals for the season (i.e. ACC champs, FF, etc). However, he did state a personal goal of his this year was to help Kyle content for a NPOY award, to go to the NBA (he said leave early) and become a lottery pick. He continued by saying that Kyle has now begun to train like a pro. Singler has no classes before 11:30 and begins his day in the facility, lifting weights, doing agility training and getting lots of shots up. While I would love to see Kyle back for his senior year (and that could still be a possibility), I don’t think that’s the plan. Lets take it one season at a time and enjoy the ride! Go Duke!

P.S. The team looked great during the grueling 2hr. practices (double session that day). I think this team is extremely talented and if it got on a roll in March, well who knows.

[chrisheery]

If he stays, Duke has to be the favorite to win it all next year.

If he doesn't, they are still a team that is as likely to make a final four as any team in the country.

(The above rosters should also anticipate Henson going pro, as it is very very likely)

[NYDukie]

If he stays, Duke has to be the favorite to win it all next year.

If he doesn't, they are still a team that is as likely to make a final four as any team in the country.

(The above rosters should also anticipate Henson going pro, as it is very very likely)

Not sure if Duke has to be the favorite but may be among the 3 to 5 teams that usually are amongst the so called experts picks if Singler stays.

If he goes, for my money all bets are off as there won't be that one upper classmen to rely on other than possibly Nolan. I won't say the team wouldn't be good but not championship good. On top of that, who would play a traditional SF role? No guarantee Rosoe comes and if not him or Singler is here you would either have Kelly or Dawkins possibly playing out of position. As has been the case the past few years, it just seems we are missing the proper balance of players such as PG and guard depth year and overall wing athleticism. I know the company line is that Coach K doesn't pigeon hole players to positions but you do need quality positional balance on the roster. You can't have 4 PGs and 6 PFs for example dominating your rotation and just think guys can be a perimiter scorer and have a PF now be comfortable playing SF on the perimter and chasing 6'6 guys around.

Coach still gets the All Americans but we just need to close the deal on some in order to provide the team the proper balance positionally.

[Rich]

No, but it's easy to look at the potential of next year's team. If only Seth was eligible...

If, If, If...I am sick of all the ifs. If we get this guy, if this guy stays, if this guy on Carolina leaves, if this guys breaks his commitment and comes to Duke, if this guy is healthy, if this guy gets hurt...it's all generally worthless conjecture, but doing it about some time a full year away and just looking past this season is unbelievable.

Can we just focus on 2009-2010 and leave this BS for the off-season? The guys who run the DBR always talk about the journey. Well, the 2009-2010 journey began tonight. Why don't we put our energy towards that. Trust me, if all you keep thinking about is the future and "what if" you will never be satisfied and you'll miss all the good stuff you have sitting right in front of you.

[chrisheery]

Maybe I am just too optimistic, but I think this team, I mean this year, is going to be really good. I think Ryan Kelly will develop into a very very good player by next year and will be a very good 3-4. I think Olek is showing signs that he might be a real contributer next year. But, to answer the main question of what the team would look like with no Singler and no "true 3," I guess we could take a look at the team that absolutely demolished us in the elite 8 last year, Villanova. They start played 4 out, 1 in with three quick guards. Next year, we can do that as well. In fact, we will probably be able to do even one better, 3 or 4 out with 1 or 2 in (with the same lineup).

Quickness (3 out)
Smith
Irving
Curry
Dawkins

plus Thornton (not as well known what he brings yet)

Power/Swing (2 in or 1 in 1 out)
Hairston
Kelly
Miles
Mason
Olek

With any combination of 3 of the top group and 2 of the bottom group we have a mismatch at probably 2 positions on the floor. Spreading three quick, excellent shooting guards around the perimeter opens up the inside for the two bigs to play high-low and set screens for pick and roll. When Kelly is in (and maybe Hairston from what I have read), the floor can be spread even more.

The main issue might come in defending the other teams "3." Which will surely be an issue. But, I am not sure another teams "3" will have an easy time guarding any of the players we would have on the court either.

[Newton_14]

If, If, If...I am sick of all the ifs. If we get this guy, if this guy stays, if this guy on Carolina leaves, if this guys breaks his commitment and comes to Duke, if this guy is healthy, if this guy gets hurt...it's all generally worthless conjecture, but doing it about some time a full year away and just looking past this season is unbelievable.

Can we just focus on 2009-2010 and leave this BS for the off-season? The guys who run the DBR always talk about the journey. Well, the 2009-2010 journey began tonight. Why don't we put our energy towards that. Trust me, if all you keep thinking about is the future and "what if" you will never be satisfied and you'll miss all the good stuff you have sitting right in front of you.

Amen Rich! I am with you. The team I watched tonight was quite good even while being short-handed. Plus, people can believe it or not, but we have the best basketball coach on planet earth and because of that we will always be a factor. This year's Duke team will be hard to handle once all of the pieces are back on the court and they get game experience to learn the new system and gel.

They deserve our full attention and support. I am actually very disappointed at the lack of posting in the thread about tonight's game. Constantly worrying about tomorrow instead of focusing on today is not good.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

If, If, If...I am sick of all the ifs. If we get this guy, if this guy stays, if this guy on Carolina leaves, if this guys breaks his commitment and comes to Duke, if this guy is healthy, if this guy gets hurt...it's all generally worthless conjecture, but doing it about some time a full year away and just looking past this season is unbelievable.

Can we just focus on 2009-2010 and leave this BS for the off-season? The guys who run the DBR always talk about the journey. Well, the 2009-2010 journey began tonight. Why don't we put our energy towards that. Trust me, if all you keep thinking about is the future and "what if" you will never be satisfied and you'll miss all the good stuff you have sitting right in front of you.


I agree, but did you have to use me as an example? Sheesh, it was a frickin joke.

[COYS]

If he goes, for my money all bets are off as there won't be that one upper classmen to rely on other than possibly Nolan. I won't say the team wouldn't be good but not championship good. On top of that, who would play a traditional SF role?

Inexperience will certainly be a valid concern. However, being worried about a traditional SF player shouldn't be that big of a deal. Irving, Dawkins, Smith, and Curry make for a great three guard lineup in basically any combination with Thornton there for additional speed and depth. In addition, the versatility of our backcourt will allow for K to go big without sacrificing athleticism if we need size at the 3. Mason, Miles, plus a combo of Olek and Hairston and two of our five guards used in limited stretches could be very effective. For the most part, though, our backcourt is going to be really good and I don't see why we'd need to force a traditional C, PF, SF, SG, PG lineup on a team whose best players will msot likely skew toward the SG and PG types.

[chrisheery]

Also, I am not so sure Hairston couldn't convert his game to more of a "3" game after watching some of his youtube clips. He's pretty mobile and more athletic than I thought. Reasonable ball handling as well.

[Duke79UNLV77]

I'd be surprised if Singler returns next year, and so would K.

http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2009/11/13/harrison_barnes_chooses_unc_duke_hurt_most_by_deci sion

[BlueintheFace]

If.....

If he stays, Duke and Carolina will be having some of the most epic games ever. People will be talking about a March showdown all season. It makes me uncomfortable to think about.

[rotogod00]

with kyle scuffling a bit right now, at least maybe he's more likely to be back next year. chad ford currently has him 30th on his big board. here's his 12/8 update:

"Just when NBA scouts started to get comfortable with the idea of Singler as a top-20 pick, he's suffering from a terrible shooting slump. He's now shooting a career-low 42 percent from the field. Singler struggled to hit his jumper against Radford, Arizona State, UConn and St. John's. But it was the UConn game that raised eyebrows. Uber-athletic forward Stanley Robinson shut down Singler, raising more questions about Singler's inability to get his offense going against the long-armed, quick-footed, explosive leapers he'll face every night in the NBA."

here's hoping he picks up his play over the course of the rest of the season and proves mr. ford wrong (but still decides to return for his senior season, of course).

[uh_no]

threads like this pop up every day

how about we enjoy this season before worrying about next season?

we don't know about singler or smith.....how about we enjoy scheyer and lance while we got them before looking to next year

[fgb]

i'm not sure i buy that singler is in a "slump"; he's never been a consistent shooter. really streaky, it's always seemed to me.

that could work in favor of his staying for his senior year. there are so many things that scouts look at--first step, jumping ability, etc--that you really can't improve all that much, at this level anyway. outside shooting is something that you can really improve, though, and developing a consistent deep shot could be the one thing that vaults singler into the top ten. battier was a fantastic example of this; as good as he was early on at so many things, his shot really came into maturity during his senior season, which i imagine made a world of difference to nba scouts.

[MrBisonDevil]

If Singler stays, Duke will be a top-3 team.
If Singler leaves, Duke will be a top-5 team.
I think Nolan Smith is the key to this year and next year's team.

I predict, Nolan Smith will start to explode offensively by the end of this season and next year (regardless of Singler's status) Nolan will enter the year as a pre-season player of the year candidate.

Duke as a fever and the only prescription is more Nolan Smith! Singler is constant. We know Kyle will produce this year or next year (if he stays) but Nolan is the real key to making Duke a juggernaut.

[BobbyFan]

threads like this pop up every day

how about we enjoy this season before worrying about next season?

Why does speculating about next season preclude one from enjoying the current one?

[NYC Duke Fan]

Why does speculating about next season preclude one from enjoying the current one?

You are absolutely correct. They are not inconsistent. After all this is a sports forum nothing more and should be enjoyed. If there are those who do not want to speculate about next year, Singler, Smith etc., they should not post on this particular thread.

For what it is worth, ( probably not that much), I was at MSG yesterday for the Gonzaga game, and from what I saw about Singler at The Garden, a neutral site, ( although many might disagree about the neutral), is that he is just not ready for the NBA. He would be a bench warmer and would not see much action if any at all.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Why does speculating about next season preclude one from enjoying the current one?

Amazing post. Completely agree. We should be able to talk about this season, next season, and past seasons without being harassed.

[NSDukeFan]

You are absolutely correct. They are not inconsistent. After all this is a sports forum nothing more and should be enjoyed. If there are those who do not want to speculate about next year, Singler, Smith etc., they should not post on this particular thread.

For what it is worth, ( probably not that much), I was at MSG yesterday for the Gonzaga game, and from what I saw about Singler at The Garden, a neutral site, ( although many might disagree about the neutral), is that he is just not ready for the NBA. He would be a bench warmer and would not see much action if any at all.

You must be heckuva talent scout to be able to tell in one game (where the player didn't have his best game and was coming off an ankle injury) a person's pro prospects. Sorry, if I am being a bit of a jerk.

[1Devil]

Singler is not dominating at the college level. Therefore, he should not go.

Last year Henderson dominated at various points through the season, but he was not consistent. Still, his case for leaving could be made. I am not seeing even that from Singler.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

Singler WILL get better at the start of ACC play.

[SMO]

Singler WILL get better at the start of ACC play.

I suspect you're right and regardless, there's a long way to go. Early last season one NBA writer said most pro scouts had "written off" Henderson. Things can change fast. If Singler really plans to play the 3 in the NBA, it may benefit him to spend another year improving his ball-handling, driving, and defensive quickness if he wants to contribute right away in the NBA. I'd love to see him as a senior but I'm guessing we'll see more play like his 1st half against Wisconsin before the season is out.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

with kyle scuffling a bit right now, at least maybe he's more likely to be back next year. chad ford currently has him 30th on his big board. here's his 12/8 update:

"Just when NBA scouts started to get comfortable with the idea of Singler as a top-20 pick, he's suffering from a terrible shooting slump. He's now shooting a career-low 42 percent from the field. Singler struggled to hit his jumper against Radford, Arizona State, UConn and St. John's. But it was the UConn game that raised eyebrows. Uber-athletic forward Stanley Robinson shut down Singler, raising more questions about Singler's inability to get his offense going against the long-armed, quick-footed, explosive leapers he'll face every night in the NBA."

here's hoping he picks up his play over the course of the rest of the season and proves mr. ford wrong (but still decides to return for his senior season, of course).


Yeah, I am not about to say "Come on Kyle, keep struggling!!" for next year's sake. I am confident he'll find it and take next year to refine his game playing with the most talented team we've had since 2004.

[Kedsy]

Singler is not dominating at the college level. Therefore, he should not go.

Last year Henderson dominated at various points through the season, but he was not consistent. Still, his case for leaving could be made. I am not seeing even that from Singler.

After 10 games last year, G's averages were: 10.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, and 1.8 apg. Kyle's numbers after 10 games are: 15.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, and 2.8 apg. To say G had a case and Kyle doesn't defies logic a little bit. As the year went on, G got a lot better, and so will Kyle.

There's a small chance Kyle will decide to stay, if the pre-draft reports say he won't go first round or won't have a chance to play in a rotation, but I wouldn't count on it.

[SMO]

There's a small chance Kyle will decide to stay, if the pre-draft reports say he won't go first round or won't have a chance to play in a rotation, but I wouldn't count on it.

Is this an "in the know" statement or just your opinion? If I had to guess I'd say he stays based on the strength of this year's draft and the fact that he might benefit from more time to transition to the 3, but maybe you know something I don't.

[Kedsy]

Is this an "in the know" statement or just your opinion? If I had to guess I'd say he stays based on the strength of this year's draft and the fact that he might benefit from more time to transition to the 3, but maybe you know something I don't.

I am not in the know. As everyone here did, I read comments to this effect in the pre-season, but unlike many I don't think anything has happened recently that should cast doubt on the early statements.

[1Devil]

After 10 games last year, G's averages were: 10.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, and 1.8 apg. Kyle's numbers after 10 games are: 15.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, and 2.8 apg. To say G had a case and Kyle doesn't defies logic a little bit. As the year went on, G got a lot better, and so will Kyle.

There's a small chance Kyle will decide to stay, if the pre-draft reports say he won't go first round or won't have a chance to play in a rotation, but I wouldn't count on it.

Still, you knew when Henderson wasn't playing well, the NBA athleticism was still there. Lacking that, Singler needs to get a lot more consistent on his shot. He needs to stop the one-handed flings at the basket (which went in vs. Wisconsin but generally are bad shots) and start shooting the ball. Instead of the drive and fling, why not drive and pull up?

[Kedsy]

Still, you knew when Henderson wasn't playing well, the NBA athleticism was still there. Lacking that, Singler needs to get a lot more consistent on his shot. He needs to stop the one-handed flings at the basket (which went in vs. Wisconsin but generally are bad shots) and start shooting the ball. Instead of the drive and fling, why not drive and pull up?

Well, even in G's freshman and sophomore years you could tell the NBA athleticism was there. But nobody seriously argued he was ready for the League. In his first ten games last year, G was nowhere close to "dominating," with four games as a single-digit scorer, only one where he'd scored more than 14, and against the only ranked team we'd played (Purdue) he'd scored 2 points on 1 for 8 shooting. He didn't look any more ready for the NBA than he had the previous two years.

Obviously that changed for G, and no question Kyle needs to improve on several things. I have confidence he will. By season-end, it would surprise me if Kyle's not projected as late lottery, and if that's true it would surprise me even more if he stays for his senior year. (If he's not projected late lottery, then I think it's at least 50/50 that he stays, and possibly better.)

[jimsumner]

"We should be able to talk about this season, next season, and past seasons without being harassed"

With all due respect, you have a pretty low threshold for harassment.

There's nothing inherently wrong with speculating about next season and certainly informed recruiting information and/or speculation will always be welcome on this board.

We all put together future imaginary lineups in our head. But neither Singler nor Smith has made up their minds as to whether they'll be going to the NBA following this season. That decision will be made in the spring, following the season. So, it really is speculation on the part of fans.

It does seem curious to some of us that this type of thread sometimes has more life in season than does the actual season. But that doesn't imply hostility.

[DukeBlueDevils47]

Singler doesn't strike me as the type of guy that would leave Duke early. I think if he stays for his senior year hes a definite lottery pick. If he comes out this year i see him as a mid to late first round pick and i believe he might end up being buried on the bench of a mediocre team sorta like Josh McRoberts, or Shavlik Randolph (although he was just waived by the Heat). Of course Singler is tons better than these 2 players ever were they are just examples of Duke players leaving early when they are not fully developed.This being said, I pray Singler makes the smart decision and returns to bring us home another title.

[rotogod00]

Well, even in G's freshman and sophomore years you could tell the NBA athleticism was there. But nobody seriously argued he was ready for the League. In his first ten games last year, G was nowhere close to "dominating," with four games as a single-digit scorer, only one where he'd scored more than 14, and against the only ranked team we'd played (Purdue) he'd scored 2 points on 1 for 8 shooting. He didn't look any more ready for the NBA than he had the previous two years.

Obviously that changed for G, and no question Kyle needs to improve on several things. I have confidence he will. By season-end, it would surprise me if Kyle's not projected as late lottery, and if that's true it would surprise me even more if he stays for his senior year. (If he's not projected late lottery, then I think it's at least 50/50 that he stays, and possibly better.)

not sure kyle can do enough to make the lottery. his limited quickness and athleticism is going to hurt him at the next level

[Daniel tosh]

I think one of the main reasons G left after last season was because the 2010 draft was/is going to be loaded and deep.It may sound bias but the smart thing to do would be to return next season(unless he has a spectacular season).If G had came back this season his draft stock only would have dropped IMO.Kyle will face the same choice of going or staying but as far as I know his stock would only improve if he came back barring injury.Whatever he does I will wish him the best of luck either way,although I really hope he comes back to try to lead us to title.Go Duke!!

[mapei]

It does seem curious to some of us that this type of thread sometimes has more life in season than does the actual season.

How so? The Gonzaga post-game thread has attracted seventy-something posts in about exactly 24 hours, plus another 27 in the MOTM thread. This one has attracted thirty-something over a five-week period. I don't think people are speculating on next year's lineup instead of enjoying this year's season; they are doing so in addition to enjoying this year's season, because they love thinking and talking about Duke basketball.

Me, I think Kyle will be gone if he projects in the first round. I agree with those who suggest he still has things to work on at the college level, though.

[Kedsy]

not sure kyle can do enough to make the lottery. his limited quickness and athleticism is going to hurt him at the next level

You may be right, but he has good size for a wing, so I think he has a decent chance. Hansbrough went late lottery and he has limited quickness and athleticism and has only borderline size for his position. I'm not saying Kyle's accomplishments are going to rival Hansbrough's, but I think he can get to late lottery, either this year or next. He does have to show good shooting, though, but I think he'll come around in that department.

[Wildcat]

Why; because he might not get any better if he stays. He probably knows that himself. Duke might not provide the environment that will facilitate improvement in his game to succeed at the next level. I feel he'll come around and have some good games this year; but I think part of the problem is the media/fans inflated expectations thrust upon him. NPOY candidate, first team all conference, and all the other expectations upon him has forced him to try to meet all those demands.

If he would just relax, play his game, play to his strengths, and if coach could just rest him/allow him to observe the game some. He looks exhuasted out their at times, and appears to be trying too hard. We'll keep an eye on him and see how he develops. But I've always thought he was playing to leave this year. I hope he continues to DEVELOP, because dat Plumlee boy Mase, has some real PO. Gonna be hard to hold him back.

[SMO]

Duke might not provide the environment that will facilitate improvement in his game to succeed at the next level.

Can you expand on that? Some might take that as a knock on Duke but I'm not sure how you meant it.

[Kedsy]

Why; because he might not get any better if he stays. He probably knows that himself. Duke might not provide the environment that will facilitate improvement in his game to succeed at the next level.

Yeah, because Duke players hardly ever improve from year to year. Especially seniors, you know, like Jon Scheyer, Brian Zoubek, and Lance Thomas... oh, wait, they've all improved immensely since last year.

So, maybe you're saying nobody from Duke can get to the NBA, or at least not anyone who can "succeed at the next level," except... WRONG!

Personally, I think Kyle will probably leave, but not because he won't be able to improve between this year and next, and not because playing for Duke can't prepare him for the League.

One last thing, Mr. Wildcat (odd name for a Duke fan, don't you think?), I find it puzzling that you claim to be a Duke fan for 30 years (or whatever you've said) but your posts seem to spout a lot of the same nonsense as the average Duke hater. What's that about?

[Wildcat]

Love Duke Basketball, got the posters, autographs and the memories as a little boy watching Spinarkle and Dennard shoot the lights out at Cameron. Also remember when K first came on the scene. Anyway; what i meant by the environment POSSIBLY not facilitating the improvement that warrants good success at the next level is: we play a more finesse game/system than the NBA. The guys he's playing with now in practice and the one's that will be there next year, probably can't motivate and strengthen him in the areas where he POSSIBLY needs developing the most. To become a better player, you've got to be around better players, play with better players and constantly challenge yourself, your game and develop. If you're the best and their still questions...?

[cbfx3]

Love Duke Basketball, got the posters, autographs and the memories as a little boy watching Spinarkle


may want to double check some of those autographs..:confused:

[cbfx3]

Pretty sure he will leave after this year but if he ends up not having a banner year he may reconsider. I have felt that Nolan may take the plunge too if he keeps up his level of play. Nothing surprises me these days. Nolan seems like more of a player for us this year than G did last year

[DukeDevilDeb]

If Singler stays, Duke will be a top-3 team.
If Singler leaves, Duke will be a top-5 team.
I think Nolan Smith is the key to this year and next year's team.

I predict, Nolan Smith will start to explode offensively by the end of this season and next year (regardless of Singler's status) Nolan will enter the year as a pre-season player of the year candidate.

Duke as a fever and the only prescription is more Nolan Smith! Singler is constant. We know Kyle will produce this year or next year (if he stays) but Nolan is the real key to making Duke a juggernaut.

... Scheyer is the key to this year's team... remember Scheyer? #1 in the country in Assist/Turnover ratio.... awesome games against almost everyone... Wojo said after the Gonzaga game that if Scheyer weren't playing All American basketball, then he didn't know what A-A basketball was.

I totally agree. Nolan had a great game against Gonzaga, but it is Scheyer who is leading this team forward!

[Kedsy]

The guys he's playing with now in practice and the one's that will be there next year, probably can't motivate and strengthen him in the areas where he POSSIBLY needs developing the most. To become a better player, you've got to be around better players, play with better players and constantly challenge yourself, your game and develop. If you're the best and their still questions...?

You can look at Duke's roster this year and prospective roster next year and say the players aren't good enough to challenge Kyle in practice? Wow, that's an, um, interesting take on the situation.

[DukeDevilDeb]

Love Duke Basketball, got the posters, autographs and the memories as a little boy watching Spinarkle and Dennard shoot the lights out at Cameron. Also remember when K first came on the scene. Anyway; what i meant by the environment POSSIBLY not facilitating the improvement that warrants good success at the next level is: we play a more finesse game/system than the NBA. The guys he's playing with now in practice and the one's that will be there next year, probably can't motivate and strengthen him in the areas where he POSSIBLY needs developing the most. To become a better player, you've got to be around better players, play with better players and constantly challenge yourself, your game and develop. If you're the best and their still questions...?

... that no Duke players are currently making an impact in the NBA???? LOL!!! :D

Take a look at the great picture in SI of Shane and Elton, going at each other in a 76ers-Houston game. The Pacers have a picture of Dunleavy on their home page with great comments about him (ok, it rotates with others, but it's there!). Maggette is averaging 16.5 ppg, 5 reb, 2 assists. Hill, a 14 yr pro, is averaging 12 pts, 5.4 rebounds, and 2.3 assists per game (man, what he could have done with a healthy foot...!).

I think your blood may run Duke blue, but does it have its source at Lexington, Mr. Wildcat?

[Wildcat]

Oh no. Those guys all solid pros. I just want to see Kyle reach his maximum PO. as a collegiate player preparing for the next level.

[uh_no]

Pretty sure he will leave after this year but if he ends up not having a banner year he may reconsider. I have felt that Nolan may take the plunge too if he keeps up his level of play. Nothing surprises me these days. Nolan seems like more of a player for us this year than G did last year

Nolan has said he is not leaving without a duke degree.

[jv001]

Kyle has said that when he does reach the pros, he does not want to warm the bench. I just don't see him getting a lot of minutes next year if he does declare for the nba. As for wildcat, I just don't get the feeling he's a true Duke fan. I could be wrong of course. Go Duke!

[Wildcat]

Before K came, Foster was my favorite guy. They once had a team poster at Duke Gardens and I got all of their autographs, put it on my wall. Happiest guy in my class. K was once my idol.

[jv001]

Before K came, Foster was my favorite guy. They once had a team poster at Duke Gardens and I got all of their autographs, put it on my wall. Happiest guy in my class. K was once my idol.

What happened? Why is K not your idol now? What did he do to lose that respect? Go Duke!

[Wildcat]

K was different then. When he first came he had something to prove. He had a different cast around him as well. Don't get me wrong, I respect the heck out of the guy; I'd be a fool not to, considering the job he has done.

[ice-9]

If he looks like a Wildcat, talks like a Wildcat, names himself a Wildcat... ;)

[duke09hms]

wow, are you people serious here? Can we all get off "wildcat's" case? He is free to offer any opinions (that are not even inflammatory at all) he may have without us attacking or questioning his "credentials" as a Duke fan. This is just ridiculous how people are so sensitive here at any statement not kissing up to the Duke Blue.

While I'm not sure how true his statement about Singler staying another year at Duke not facilitating his max development, I do understand the reasoning behind it. In the NBA, players are extremely physical and are much stronger and willing to bang than any of the players on our roster. It is plausible that our lack of such players to practice against might hinder Kyle's development in playing with physicality. We don't exactly have the big bangers in the post that he will face in the NBA.

That said, I do hope he stays another year - it has to be tempting for him to be able to play with a true point guard for the first time in his college career (yea Kyrie!). Same goes for finally being part of a complete team. Plus, having a good PG can only make a player look even better, raising draft stock.



Can't believe how ridiculous and trivial some of these posts are . . .

[Kedsy]

While I'm not sure how true his statement about Singler staying another year at Duke not facilitating his max development, I do understand the reasoning behind it. In the NBA, players are extremely physical and are much stronger and willing to bang than any of the players on our roster. It is plausible that our lack of such players to practice against might hinder Kyle's development in playing with physicality. We don't exactly have the big bangers in the post that he will face in the NBA.

That said, I do hope he stays another year - it has to be tempting for him to be able to play with a true point guard for the first time in his college career (yea Kyrie!). Same goes for finally being part of a complete team. Plus, having a good PG can only make a player look even better, raising draft stock.

Sorry if this is ridiculous or trivial, but the way Jon is playing, don't you think Kyle is playing with a "true point guard" this year? Or at least a "good PG"?

Putting that aside, the problems with both your analysis and Wildcat's are (a) this year Kyle has moved to wing, which is the position he's going to play in the NBA, so whether or not our roster is stocked with enough "big bangers" is sort of irrelevant; (b) if it were relevant, we have one of the biggest rosters in the NCAA, and none of our big men (other than perhaps Ryan) are really finesse players, so to say we're not big and strong enough to help Kyle's development is more or less contrary to the facts; (c) every single player on Duke's roster, including Kyle and all the big men, appear to have improved and developed each year they've been here, so there's no reason to think next year would be any different; (d) there's no college team with the size, strength, quickness, and athleticism of an NBA team, but plenty of players develop a good deal by practicing and learning in college; (e) Duke, both this year and next, has/will have one of the top 5 or 10 teams in the NCAA, so he has as much of a chance to develop here as pretty much any other college program.

The suggestion that a player on a college team doesn't get to practice against NBA players and therefore can't develop into a better player runs counter to 63 years of evidence. Wildcat's statement that being at Duke would somehow make it impossible for Kyle to improve is a little bit offensive, and that's why people were jumping down his throat.

That said, I agree he (or she) should be free to express his (or her) opinions and that attacking him (or her) for doing so is not entirely warranted. To the extent that I questioned his (or her) credentials (and I did), I apologize. On the other hand, since Wildcat started posting a few days ago, many of his (or her) posts appear (to me, at least) to be insulting to the Duke program, so while I apologize for any incivility on my part, I can't help but have doubts about him (or her).

[Duke4life92]

On the other hand, since Wildcat started posting a few days ago, many of his (or her) posts appear (to me, at least) to be insulting to the Duke program,

If he looks like a Wildcat, talks like a Wildcat, names himself a Wildcat...
Not jumping to conclusions but dang i was thinking the same things:confused:...

[Kewlswim]

Nolan has said he is not leaving without a duke degree.

Hi,

If Nolan does the summer school thing he could graduate in three years as did Boozer and JWill. I am glad to hear he values his education. Woo Hoo Reason number 4000 to like Nolan. I am always a bit sad when players leave Duke without getting their degree. I read somewhere that Dun left without his degree, but then took classes in the SF Bay Area and was able to apply those credits to Duke so as to get his degree.

I digress, this is supposed to be about whether or not Mr. Singler will stay. Luckily, unlike others, I haven't written this season off yet or like Wildcat (?) question the preparation for the NBA Kyle is receiving at Duke. I think the preparation at Duke is better than that he would receive in, say, Lexington, but that's just me. I am sure that in between figuring out how to skirt the rules and staying one step ahead of the NCAA Coach Cal is doing great work to prepare his kids for their future--be it in the NBA or if they decide they want to head to med school. I am the one who was not willing to give an inch, not an inch. I see goals of winning the ACC regular season, ACC Tournament, and at least playing in the FF. I think those are all achievable. :D Oh, I think Kyle likes those goals too. He probably isn't thinking too much about leaving seeing as it isn't even Christmas yet. A lot of ball left to be played this season and I am so stoked to be a Duke fan. I feel really excited about this team.

GO DUKE!

[duke09hms]

Sorry if this is ridiculous or trivial, but the way Jon is playing, don't you think Kyle is playing with a "true point guard" this year? Or at least a "good PG"?

Putting that aside, the problems with both your analysis and Wildcat's are (a) this year Kyle has moved to wing, which is the position he's going to play in the NBA, so whether or not our roster is stocked with enough "big bangers" is sort of irrelevant; (b) if it were relevant, we have one of the biggest rosters in the NCAA, and none of our big men (other than perhaps Ryan) are really finesse players, so to say we're not big and strong enough to help Kyle's development is more or less contrary to the facts; (c) every single player on Duke's roster, including Kyle and all the big men, appear to have improved and developed each year they've been here, so there's no reason to think next year would be any different; (d) there's no college team with the size, strength, quickness, and athleticism of an NBA team, but plenty of players develop a good deal by practicing and learning in college; (e) Duke, both this year and next, has/will have one of the top 5 or 10 teams in the NCAA, so he has as much of a chance to develop here as pretty much any other college program.

The suggestion that a player on a college team doesn't get to practice against NBA players and therefore can't develop into a better player runs counter to 63 years of evidence. Wildcat's statement that being at Duke would somehow make it impossible for Kyle to improve is a little bit offensive, and that's why people were jumping down his throat.

That said, I agree he (or she) should be free to express his (or her) opinions and that attacking him (or her) for doing so is not entirely warranted. To the extent that I questioned his (or her) credentials (and I did), I apologize. On the other hand, since Wildcat started posting a few days ago, many of his (or her) posts appear (to me, at least) to be insulting to the Duke program, so while I apologize for any incivility on my part, I can't help but have doubts about him (or her).

Thanks for your post. Yeah, you're right in that Scheyer is playing out of his mind right now, no doubt about it. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of having Kyrie coming in next year is that KI is more of a typical true PG in that he can penetrate/breakdown the defense at will to get other players easy buckets. Scheyer seems to get his assists other ways, but hey an assist is an assist, and I sure hope he can keep it up through the meat of the season.

I was mostly playing devil's advocate for wildcat, and in his defense he did use the qualifier "possibly" when discussing how staying another year might not be best for kyle's long-term development. Which I guess is somewhat true in that practicing against NBA players for a year is probably more beneficial than practicing against college players for that year.

Here's to hoping Kyle has a dominant season, but like the jr. yr hansbrough, decides to come back for a senior year title run.

[Kedsy]

Here's to hoping Kyle has a dominant season, but like the jr. yr hansbrough, decides to come back for a senior year title run.

I think we can all drink to that. Playing wing is sort of a new thing for Kyle, and I actually think he would develop/improve immensely at the position if he stayed another year. My hopes aren't too high for it to happen, but I suppose you never know.

[mapei]

To become a better player, you've got to be around better players, play with better players and constantly challenge yourself, your game and develop. If you're the best . . .

I can certainly understand that possibility. Being around athletes who were better than I was is the only way I ever improved in any sport. I made the most progress when the guys I was playing or riding with (my best sports were tennis and cycling) were just a notch above me.

That said, so far Kyle's isn't looking ready for him to leave yet. Maybe it's getting used to a new position, but in some ways he looked as good or better as a freshman compared to how he has played so far this year.

BTW, I don't believe Boozer graduated from Duke in 3 years. I know that was the announced plan, but I don't think it happened that way.

[UrinalCake]

This past summer, someone wrote an article suggesting it would be good for Duke if Gerald Henderson left for the NBA. Among several other reasons, he proposed that recruits need to see guys leaving a program early in order to want to go there. I think the same could be said for Kyle - if he does stay, another recruit might think "Gee, here's a guy who was a top-5 recruit out of high school, got moved to a new position for three years, and took four years to get to the league. Duke must not have developed him very well."

Not saying I believe that to be true, but if we want to attract elite talent, most of whom consider themselves potential early entrants, then it makes some sense that we need to dispel the old notion of Duke being only a school for four-year players. Or to put it another way, if Kyle does stay, it means he had a bad year, which is not what we want.

[airowe]

This past summer, someone wrote an article suggesting it would be good for Duke if Gerald Henderson left for the NBA. Among several other reasons, he proposed that recruits need to see guys leaving a program early in order to want to go there. I think the same could be said for Kyle - if he does stay, another recruit might think "Gee, here's a guy who was a top-5 recruit out of high school, got moved to a new position for three years, and took four years to get to the league. Duke must not have developed him very well."

Not saying I believe that to be true, but if we want to attract elite talent, most of whom consider themselves potential early entrants, then it makes some sense that we need to dispel the old notion of Duke being only a school for four-year players. Or to put it another way, if Kyle does stay, it means he had a bad year, which is not what we want.

I don't agree. Kyle can have a great year and still come back. The two are not mutually exclusive. One of his goals is to win a National Title. He's also said he wants to be able to contribute early in his NBA career and not sit on the bench when he could still be playing minutes in college.

Duke has quite a few examples of players leaving early and being successful in the NBA.

For a quick rebuttal to your point, the program 8 miles down the road hasn't suffered because their mosy recognized player stayed 4 years.

[Rudy]

This past summer, someone wrote an article suggesting it would be good for Duke if Gerald Henderson left for the NBA. Among several other reasons, he proposed that recruits need to see guys leaving a program early in order to want to go there. I think the same could be said for Kyle - if he does stay, another recruit might think "Gee, here's a guy who was a top-5 recruit out of high school, got moved to a new position for three years, and took four years to get to the league. Duke must not have developed him very well."


Often 17 and 18 year old kids think and say stupid things. Recruit them anyway.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't agree. Kyle can have a great year and still come back. The two are not mutually exclusive. One of his goals is to win a National Title. He's also said he wants to be able to contribute early in his NBA career and not sit on the bench when he could still be playing minutes in college.

While not mutually exclusive, having a great year and leaving is currently the norm, not the exception. There is too much to risk and for someone who doesn't have "NBA potential" written all over them, I would be shocked if Kyle had a great year AND returned (not shocked if he has a great year - that's what I'm expecting ;)).

Everyone says that winning a NC is a goal, and then so many of them leave. I really really really think that is an unrealistic argument. In all honesty, if I were a Duke basketball player with the skills to make it in the NBA but without that raw potential that scouts love (ie Kyle) AND I had a great year, I would bolt. A NC is a great thing, but Kyle needs to think about his stock and his future. That, in most cases, will trump winning an NC.

[pfrduke]

While not mutually exclusive, having a great year and leaving is currently the norm, not the exception. There is too much to risk and for someone who doesn't have "NBA potential" written all over them, I would be shocked if Kyle had a great year AND returned (not shocked if he has a great year - that's what I'm expecting ;)).

Everyone says that winning a NC is a goal, and then so many of them leave. I really really really think that is an unrealistic argument. In all honesty, if I were a Duke basketball player with the skills to make it in the NBA but without that raw potential that scouts love (ie Kyle) AND I had a great year, I would bolt. A NC is a great thing, but Kyle needs to think about his stock and his future. That, in most cases, will trump winning an NC.

Well, "great year" in the abstract is sort of irrelevant - you need "great year" plus good news from the GMs and draft people. For example, Hansbrough had, by anyone's standards, a great year as a junior. But he simply wasn't going to be drafted highly enough to make it worth his while coming out. At this point, it's not clear to me whether even a great year by Singler would make him a mid-low-first rounder, let alone a lottery pick.

As you note, Kyle needs to think about his stock and his future (well, at least after the season - right now he needs to think about beating Long Beach St. ;)). Those things will, of course, be influenced by the kind of season he has, but his performance this year alone will not be determinative of his draft stock.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Well, "great year" in the abstract is sort of irrelevant - you need "great year" plus good news from the GMs and draft people. For example, Hansbrough had, by anyone's standards, a great year as a junior. But he simply wasn't going to be drafted highly enough to make it worth his while coming out. At this point, it's not clear to me whether even a great year by Singler would make him a mid-low-first rounder, let alone a lottery pick.

As you note, Kyle needs to think about his stock and his future (well, at least after the season - right now he needs to think about beating Long Beach St. ;)). Those things will, of course, be influenced by the kind of season he has, but his performance this year alone will not be determinative of his draft stock.

Completely agree about the importance of the GMs and the draft people. However, Hansblah is a rare exception. Everyone, and I mean everyone, thought that Hansblah had really hurt his stock during his senior year. He had lower points and rebounds and everyone realized that this was Lawson's team and not Hansblah's. However, his amazing performance at the combine really helped his stock. Hansblah's case is unique like that.

If Singler has a great year, like the one that scouts are referring to (shoots over 40% from three, improves his ball handling skills, his perimeter D, etc), then he has no reason not to go to the draft. I would love him to stay, but given a great year and where he would go in the draft, he needs to do what is best for himself.

[airowe]

Well, "great year" in the abstract is sort of irrelevant - you need "great year" plus good news from the GMs and draft people. For example, Hansbrough had, by anyone's standards, a great year as a junior. But he simply wasn't going to be drafted highly enough to make it worth his while coming out. At this point, it's not clear to me whether even a great year by Singler would make him a mid-low-first rounder, let alone a lottery pick.

As you note, Kyle needs to think about his stock and his future (well, at least after the season - right now he needs to think about beating Long Beach St. ;)). Those things will, of course, be influenced by the kind of season he has, but his performance this year alone will not be determinative of his draft stock.

Thank you pfr, you made my point better than I could have. Another thing Kyle needs to consider is the relative strength of this year's draft in relation to how highly he will be projected to be drafted. This year's draft will be pretty loaded.

[Rudy]

Is it just about the money? Is he enjoying college or is it completely a job already, a stepping stone to a higher paying job? Assuming he stays healthy, and every college age kid assumes that, will he be ready to walk away from the college BMOC experience and play games 5 days a week, plus travel? Unless there is crushing financial need for himself and his family, he may want to have that last year of college basketball and non-basketball experience. Except for calamity, which could arrive any time he walks across the street, he will have 10-15 years of professional basketball. We'll know not long after he knows is my guess, and he will likely go with the no-agent trial before deciding.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Is it just about the money? Is he enjoying college or is it completely a job already, a stepping stone to a higher paying job? Assuming he stays healthy, and every college age kid assumes that, will he be ready to walk away from the college BMOC experience and play games 5 days a week, plus travel? Unless there is crushing financial need for himself and his family, he may want to have that last year of college basketball and non-basketball experience. Except for calamity, which could arrive any time he walks across the street, he will have 10-15 years of professional basketball. We'll know not long after he knows is my guess, and he will likely go with the no-agent trial before deciding.

Come on... money is huge. Is there a reason why so many Dukies become investment bankers? Is it because they love finance? They love to work those 16 hour days? They love getting yelled at (all from experience, unfortunately)? No, because it's human nature to go for the most lucrative position. Kyle, unfortunately, isn't going to be in the upper 50 percentile for athleticism in the NBA. He won't be the best shooter, or the best defender, or the best dunker, etc. If Kyle has a poor season, he will not be a lottery pick. However, if he does have a great season, but doesn't win a championship and is a likely lottery pick, then why shouldn't he?

[Kedsy]

Is it just about the money? Is he enjoying college or is it completely a job already, a stepping stone to a higher paying job? Assuming he stays healthy, and every college age kid assumes that, will he be ready to walk away from the college BMOC experience and play games 5 days a week, plus travel? Unless there is crushing financial need for himself and his family, he may want to have that last year of college basketball and non-basketball experience. Except for calamity, which could arrive any time he walks across the street, he will have 10-15 years of professional basketball. We'll know not long after he knows is my guess, and he will likely go with the no-agent trial before deciding.

Of course it's not just about the money, but his career has to be more important than having fun and finishing school. Wouldn't you feel that way if it was you? I absolutely loved being a student at Duke, but if someone had offered me a seven figure deal when I was a junior I would have jumped at it (unless I thought staying at school would increase my deal but I would have had to be virtually 100% sure).

To say he'll have a long career whether he comes out this year or next misses the point a little. A professional athlete can't really play past a certain age, so basically leaving a year later would completely deprive him of a year's salary, which is a considerable amount. And the year he's missing wouldn't really be his rookie salary (although you could include a year of interest on that money). The "real" money is awarded in the player's second contract (and subsequent contracts), after he has played 3 years (although there are options involved, so I think it can end up being 2 years or 4 years, depending), and getting to that contract quickly is important. As an example, let's say he can play until he's 30 (and I know he could play a lot longer, this is just an example). If he leaves when he's 22, he'll get a three year rookie contract (for our purposes let's say it's for $1.5 million a year, although I haven't researched the rookie scale), and then (let's say) a 5-year, $10 million a year contract, for a total career salary of $54.5 million. If he goes a year earlier, then he gets the three year rookie deal plus a 6-year, $10 million a year contract, for total career earnings of $64.5 million. That's a whole lot of money and it could end up being more.

So IMO the decision should be based on draft position and potential for playing time. The former because the NBA rookie salary structure favors those chosen earlier, and the latter because the amount of his second contract will probably depend on how valuable a player he is at that time. If a player is not ready when he comes out, and he can't make his team's starting lineup (or at least rotation) by the time he's up for his second contract, the amount he can command in the second contract would likely suffer. So the player should make sure he's got a chance to join the rotation as quickly as possible after he is drafted.

Saying all that doesn't mean it's only about the money. But when you're talking about tens of millions of dollars, the money has to be one of the biggest (if not the biggest) factor, don't you think? Even if you argued that there's not a significant enjoyment-of-life difference between $54 million and $64 million (after all, how much money can you realistically spend in a lifetime?), how much would you have to be enjoying yourself to pass up those sorts of numbers?

Even if you don't agree, we know Kyle and K have said their goal is to have him be in a position to leave this year. So if Kyle finishes the season and he's projected late lottery, he isn't really going to do any better the following year, and I fully expect him to go. If he's projected first round but not lottery, then it's a tougher choice. If he's borderline first round, I would expect him to stay. That said, I personally expect him to sneak into the late lottery and be gone after this season.

I do not expect him to go with the "no-agent trial." With his NBA contacts, K should be able to find out Kyle's likely draft position and they'll be able to make a final decision quickly.

Just my opinion, of course. I apologize to those who have heard all these arguments a zillion times before.

[MChambers]

To say he'll have a long career whether he comes out this year or next misses the point a little. A professional athlete can't really play past a certain age, so basically leaving a year later would completely deprive him of a year's salary, which is a considerable amount.
I suspect that another year of college basketball would be less stressful on his body than a year of the NBA. Maybe not, if he was riding the pine, but if he's playing 30 minutes a game in the NBA, that's got to take its toll in the long run.

[UrinalCake]

For a quick rebuttal to your point, the program 8 miles down the road hasn't suffered because their mosy recognized player stayed 4 years.

Hans is a pretty good comparison for Kyle in terms of draft position after his junior year versus the potential to win a NC if he came back. I really hope Kyle comes back, but I also think it will probably make a lot more sense for him to go. One issue that hasn't really been discussed is the potential for an NBA lockout, which may just blow everything up.

[Rudy]

Of course it's not just about the money, but his career has to be more important than having fun and finishing school. Wouldn't you feel that way if it was you?

No. A lot of this speculation is based on subjective views of what we would do if we were in his situation. Obviously it is totally up to him.

I won't blame Kyle for going if he wants to, but I won't think he's taking a dumb risk if he stays either. Unless, of course, we win the NCAA tournament and there is nothing left to accomplish in college. ;)

[Kedsy]

No. A lot of this speculation is based on subjective views of what we would do if we were in his situation. Obviously it is totally up to him.

I won't blame Kyle for going if he wants to, but I won't think he's taking a dumb risk if he stays either. Unless, of course, we win the NCAA tournament and there is nothing left to accomplish in college. ;)

I never said it would be a dumb risk. I did say I read that Kyle and K have a stated goal of getting him in position to leave after this season. That's not a subjective view based on my values but rather an assumption Kyle will be able to do what he is trying to do. If Kyle had said he expects to stay no matter what I'd be singing a different tune, but he's more or less said the opposite.