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-jk
11-13-2009, 04:25 PM
We're all disappointed. Please keep it civil.

-jk

monkey
11-13-2009, 04:28 PM
Man. This one hurts. I know some people will bounce right back to say next play, but I'm remarkably down for 4 pm on a Friday afternoon.

Good luck to Harrison Barnes. Would have loved to have you here. Best wishes in your basketball career (except when you are playing us of course).

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 04:28 PM
I would hope that the media types begin to cast UNC as the Yankees, rather than Duke. UNC has now assumed the role of We Get All The Players We Want, regardless of when they start recruiting them. They are truly the new Evil Empire of College Basketball. Not even Kentucky gets every player they want.

Best of luck, Mr. Barnes.

dukemsu

ScreechTDX1847
11-13-2009, 04:29 PM
Well, now we all need to hope that his game has ZERO success in college. I respect him as a person and respect his choice. But, in the great tradition of this rivarly. I now hate his guts. Thats the way it works.

bass-piscator
11-13-2009, 04:30 PM
Best of luck to a Hole. Not from me. The whole announcement to me was a presentation of self importance.

mcdukie
11-13-2009, 04:30 PM
Right now, Carolina is getting whoever they want. That doesn't mean we can't compete, just stating pretty much a fact.
I knew this would be a bad Friday the 13th for somebody.

oldnavy
11-13-2009, 04:30 PM
Not sure what kind of magic Ol' Roy has over there in CH, but he seems to get whatever and whoever he wants lately... Now, let's just kick the crap out of them and HB next year! :(

Lauderdevil
11-13-2009, 04:31 PM
If you watched his whole press conference on the Des Moines Register site, you can only say he's one impressive kid. Maybe a shade less impressive for having made this particular choice, but he'll be successful regardless. I suspect his year in Chapel Hill won't hold him back too much.

mr. synellinden
11-13-2009, 04:31 PM
It just seemed like all the stars were aligned for Duke on this one, which adds to the surprise and disappointment. Just don't understand how a guy like Barnes could prefer Huckleberry to Coach K.

The silver lining is that the happiest person today (outside of Chapel Hill) is probably Roscoe Smith, and he would be a very nice consolation prize and great addition to a good recruiting class.

The silver lining seems pretty thin right now though.

But as they say, it's more about the name on the front of the jersey - and we're still Duke.

Blueequalslife23
11-13-2009, 04:31 PM
This one hurts more than Boynton, Monroe, Patterson X1336738902

77devil
11-13-2009, 04:31 PM
With Marshall, Bullock, and Barnes, Ol' Roy has landed another monster recruiting class. I am deeply depressed and will no doubt drink heavily tonight.

Dukefan03
11-13-2009, 04:31 PM
Completely disagree. Don't hate his guts at all. Throughout the entire presser, I kept thinking-he could not be more of a Duke kid and he is precisely what we need.

Very disappointing. I don't fault K/Staff for lack of effort, but it's pretty disheartening when your main rival can swoop in at last minute and own you.

Tim1515
11-13-2009, 04:31 PM
I feel like i got kicked in the gut!

The recruiting sting hurts...again...however.

If you had to pick between one year of Singler as a senior and one year of Harrison as a freshman...it wouldn't be close. Hopefully both of those things come true.

NSDukeFan
11-13-2009, 04:32 PM
I am definitely more disappointed than I should be over a 17 year old's decision, but that hurt. I can't say that he made a bad decision, just not one that I would have preferred. Best of luck to him, but I will not be cheering for him (though probably following his progress) as there are 13 guys in a darker shade of blue that I will be cheering for.
Go Duke!

BD80
11-13-2009, 04:32 PM
How's this for glass half full?

Harrison didn't think he would be the first option on the wing with Singler back next year. He wanted to be a bigger part of the offense in his one year.

Well. There is now clearly room for both Rivers and Beal.

Congrats to UNC, they did a great job of keeping it quiet.

DBFAN
11-13-2009, 04:32 PM
Let's just face it, we can not compete in recruiting with UNC, I don't know what the reason is, but we will be playing second fiddle to them for a long time. I just do not see how anyone could have anything positive to say about this situation, the reality is UNC will more than likely, win it all next year. We just don't have the core to do that.

pacificrounder
11-13-2009, 04:32 PM
Good luck to HB in his career. I look forward to Kyrie handing his friend HB a few losses in 2011.

As will be said many times in this thread (and probably has while I've been writing): NEXT PLAY.

Pernell
11-13-2009, 04:33 PM
I had never listened to Harrison before but I was definitely impressed with his poise and his words. Definitely seems to be a great kid. This definitely hurts as I believe we have the best combination of athletics and academics.

Well this is not the first and won't be our last disappointment.

But Hello Kyrie and the rest of the gang...

Let's get em

6th Man
11-13-2009, 04:33 PM
We still have Kyrie and I am telling you that is a lot to be excited about. He will make everyone better!

Kfanarmy
11-13-2009, 04:33 PM
I think it is not easy to compete with UNC in recruiting the same player when their team members are national champions...until the new wears off of that and those players are gone it will be difficult to get someone Carolina is after...will be an interesting next year with him on the court. Beat them five in a row and the decision won't look nearly as good to him as it may now.

feldspar
11-13-2009, 04:33 PM
I'm so disappointed I could spit nails.

I was watching on the gym TV and the second he said "Coach Roy Williams" I ripped my headphones out of the treadmill and stormed out.

Then imagine my suprise when I saw this on my google news reader:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2746/4101647230_b277851661_o.png

Freaking LA Times.

I'm going to go break something, then get over this at some point.

MHTorringjan
11-13-2009, 04:33 PM
Meh, top recruits come and top recruits go in men's college basketball. And more frequently they go after just one year. Here's hoping he's just that successful (but not so much that Carolina beats us).

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 04:34 PM
Let's just face it, we can not compete in recruiting with UNC, I don't know what the reason is, but we will be playing second fiddle to them for a long time. I just do not see how anyone could have anything positive to say about this situation, the reality is UNC will more than likely, win it all next year. We just don't have the core to do that.

Jordan is the primary reason.

dukemsu

Bluedog
11-13-2009, 04:34 PM
I wish the google summary of the LA Times article was right....headlined "Harrison Barnes chooses Duke. "

But, it's not...and because of that, I will be hoping for HB to fail as he is now part of the evil empire. I still respect him as an individual and respect his choice, but want the Heels to lose every game.

Edit: feldspar beat me to it.

loran16
11-13-2009, 04:34 PM
Seriously, the question now is why.

I'm not going to make the biggest deal on this. It's a huge loss, doubly so because he goes to the Holes.

But when you have the lead on recruiting him, to have it slip hurts bad. We'll still be great next year.

But this doesn't mean we shouldn't re-evaluate how we're going at recruits....I mean so, if we lost him because of the business major (which would be unbelievable to me...a Tarheel business education CANNOT be as good as ANY Duke Education for preparing you for your post bball career. Ba-lon-ey), well then we move on. Can't change the curriculum for recruits.

If we lost because of how K talked to him, or what we did on OVs...well that's more of a problem. Carolina went all out for him. Did we go as far as we could have?

One last thought: We thought having the last OV was a big difference. And it might've helped us, who knows. But because he took his OV so late, he couldn't play pick-up games with our players like he did with other teams....including Carolina. That could have been big, as he was able to see where he might fit in with Carolina, and was able to see how he'd fit in with the guys.

It's hard to duplicate that simply by watching practices.

jpfrizzle
11-13-2009, 04:35 PM
UNC has got so many talented players now, that they might self-destruct.

ChicagoCrazy84
11-13-2009, 04:35 PM
Best of luck to a Hole. Not from me. The whole announcement to me was a presentation of self importance.


Absolutely. I would probably love Harrison Barnes off the court and as a person, but I will NEVER say best of luck to a Tar Heel. I too was dissapointed in that presentation.

NashvilleDevil
11-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Let's just face it, we can not compete in recruiting with UNC, I don't know what the reason is, but we will be playing second fiddle to them for a long time. I just do not see how anyone could have anything positive to say about this situation, the reality is UNC will more than likely, win it all next year. We just don't have the core to do that.

And here we go

BlueintheFace
11-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Roy Williams is just on another planet with recruiting right now. He takes whoever he wants and that is just how it goes when you win those championships. Duke had him in the bag and Roy turned him. Plain and Simple. There is just nothing that can be done about it...

Heck of a team this year and in 2010-2011. Good times ahead regardless. Lets Go Duke.

G man
11-13-2009, 04:37 PM
This one hurts a little. I like everyone else am very upset. I am just so confused! Him and K seemed to be so close....

Pernell
11-13-2009, 04:38 PM
Geez.... we can't compete in recruiting with UNC. Relax man.

I agree we have been getting smashed as of late on the recruiting front.
We definitely have.

But I'm hoping with Kyrie and our other recurits/the rest of our team we can
get back to longer runs in the NCAAs and hopefully this will help on this end. Our early exits I'm sure hasn't helped at all.

It's not over.

It can't be over....

brianl
11-13-2009, 04:38 PM
While chasing Phenoms seems to be the new thing. I remember that our best teams are filled with a group of young men who have a desire to win collectively.

I dislike the whole chasing effort in recruitng. Its a shame that it can;t be like the good ol days when we chose rather then being chosen.

vango
11-13-2009, 04:38 PM
I was a bit disappointed with Patterson.

Surprised about Wright.

This one, for the first time, is disapointing. I thought we had this kid - early too.

Well, you still play the game on the court and we have a great team - even better next year.

Onlyduke
11-13-2009, 04:38 PM
I will never, never, never watch a recruit pick his college choice again.

NSDukeFan
11-13-2009, 04:40 PM
Let's just face it, we can not compete in recruiting with UNC, I don't know what the reason is, but we will be playing second fiddle to them for a long time. I just do not see how anyone could have anything positive to say about this situation, the reality is UNC will more than likely, win it all next year. We just don't have the core to do that.

I was very impressed with how K and the staff conducted Harrison's recruitment. I am also very impressed with the talent we now have and coming next year. I don't think we should give up all hope just yet. Does this put them as the favorite next year? Maybe, depending on who all comes back. Duke will certainly be in the mix both this year and next and I don't think there will be any playing second fiddle.

ChicagoCrazy84
11-13-2009, 04:40 PM
This one hurts a little. I like everyone else am very upset. I am just so confused! Him and K seemed to be so close....


A little? That was a complete slug to the stomach and it still hurts. Unbelievable. I am all for civility, but man... Coach K simply doesn't have it when you compare him to Roy. It's the nasty, ugly truth. What can you do as a fan? Nothin...

trinity92
11-13-2009, 04:40 PM
Very simple-- I want to beat this kid silly on the basketball court, just b/c of the uniform he's going to wear. Don't think he's dumb, misguided, evil or anything else, and I don't think his commitment to UNC signifies anything in particular. I just want to beat the Holes every time we see them this year and for ever and ever in the future. Bend 'em over and teach 'em proper.

Go Duke!!!

ps-- those skype shenanigans were lame

-bdbd
11-13-2009, 04:40 PM
This one hurts more than Boynton, Monroe, Patterson X1336738902

Congratulations to Harrison. I'm sure that it was a very tough decision. He's a great kid, and I'm sure that he will go on to do great things. (Let's just hope that most of them are AFTER he gets drafted next year!!) ;-)

Everybody remember that this was a kid who, an hour ago, we were all saying high praises about and would still wish he were a Dukie. He has earned everyone's respect - a class act throughout the process.

I am baffled how UNC-ch seems to be able to just "pick" whoever they want in recent years. And, yes, this one will hurt for quite a while -- it was a classic Duke-UNC recruiting battle. He certainly seemed like a great Duke kinda guy. Congrats to UNC-ch for a great pick-up. It sure is gonna be fun beating them next year with "less heralded players..."

Come on down Roscoe -- we can't wait to have you join the Duke family! A great fit, both ways!!

Next play!!

-BDBD
:D

kong123
11-13-2009, 04:41 PM
Absolutely. I would probably love Harrison Barnes off the court and as a person, but I will NEVER say best of luck to a Tar Heel. I too was dissapointed in that presentation.

Had it been K on the other end, we would have loved how smart he was to set it all up...

Good luck HB, we can't wait until you come to "our house"

feldspar
11-13-2009, 04:41 PM
I will never, never, never watch a recruit pick his college choice again.

A-freaking-men to that.

What a fiasco that news conference was. Skyping? Seriously?

I like the kid as a person, but he's now officially the new Carolina player i'm going to enjoy competitively hating over the next several years.

Someone needs to get a sign ready for his first game in Cameron that says "HEY BARNES, SKYPE THIS!!"

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 04:41 PM
A little? That was a complete slug to the stomach and it still hurts. Unbelievable. I am all for civility, but man... Coach K simply doesn't have it when you compare him to Roy. It's the nasty, ugly truth. What can you do as a fan? Nothin...

Roy+Jordan.

I wouldn't underestimate that factor.

dukemsu

juise
11-13-2009, 04:41 PM
I am definitely more disappointed than I should be over a 17 year old's decision, but that hurt. I can't say that he made a bad decision, just not one that I would have preferred.

These are my sentiments, exactly. Oh how badly I wanted to see Harrison as a Blue Devil. I hope that fans welcome plan B (whether that's Rocsoe or someone else) with the same enthusiasm that we would have Harrison.

Dukefan03
11-13-2009, 04:41 PM
Seriously, the question now is why.

I'm not going to make the biggest deal on this. It's a huge loss, doubly so because he goes to the Holes.

But when you have the lead on recruiting him, to have it slip hurts bad. We'll still be great next year.

But this doesn't mean we shouldn't re-evaluate how we're going at recruits....I mean so, if we lost him because of the business major (which would be unbelievable to me...a Tarheel business education CANNOT be as good as ANY Duke Education for preparing you for your post bball career. Ba-lon-ey), well then we move on. Can't change the curriculum for recruits.

If we lost because of how K talked to him, or what we did on OVs...well that's more of a problem. Carolina went all out for him. Did we go as far as we could have?

One last thought: We thought having the last OV was a big difference. And it might've helped us, who knows. But because he took his OV so late, he couldn't play pick-up games with our players like he did with other teams....including Carolina. That could have been big, as he was able to see where he might fit in with Carolina, and was able to see how he'd fit in with the guys.

It's hard to duplicate that simply by watching practices.


I believe our image is a bigger problem than the mechanics of what we are doing on a visit or how Coach talks to someone. There are multiple reasons/explanations for it, but our image has taken a hit in recent years and we are paying a price (to a degree) in recruiting.

Exiled_Devil
11-13-2009, 04:42 PM
Let's just face it, we can not compete in recruiting with UNC, I don't know what the reason is, but we will be playing second fiddle to them for a long time. I just do not see how anyone could have anything positive to say about this situation, the reality is UNC will more than likely, win it all next year. We just don't have the core to do that.

Bullocks.

We missed one recruit. A big one, but that is distracting people. The decision is complex - its not just UNC vs Duke. It's how much playing time can I get, who do I play behind, who do I play with, what are the academic options, etc. There are so many factors that come into play,we only know few, and those few are filtered through a lens of team preferences. The main issue with Barnes' recruitment is all the obsession of players on all sides being posted on the internet and bounced around in little echo caves.

This is not the end of the world. Unfortunate, yes. Irritating, yes. But the staff has already moved on and we should move on as well.

Season starts tonight, BTW.

jpfrizzle
11-13-2009, 04:42 PM
When he got up from the chair, Barnes looked at the DUKE logo. I just he was going to say DUKE.

Wrong color choice there Barnes, wrong color choice. We'll see you on the court come next season.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
11-13-2009, 04:43 PM
Hope the book is selling well . . .

SoCalDukeFan
11-13-2009, 04:43 PM
I have a friend and kind of an in-law who is a former Div I assistant. He told me that UNC under Roy Williams has moved ahead of Duke in recruiting and winning.

Clearly he is right.

I had hoped that a class with Barnes, Irving, Curry transfer etc. would prove him wrong but it is not to be.

SoCal

Coballs
11-13-2009, 04:44 PM
Years from now, this will be remembered as a legendary Duke-UNC recruiting battle that was unfortunately lost by our side. This is about as painful as a recruiting miss can be. The only potential silver lining is that Barnes will hopefully be one-and-done, and we land Roscoe Smith who goes on to have 4 outstanding years. Wishful thinking at this point.

BlueintheFace
11-13-2009, 04:44 PM
lets not forget that K was on a recruiting tear like this once and it can't last forever.

Game tonight... get amped

ForeverBlowingBubbles
11-13-2009, 04:44 PM
Geez.... we can't compete in recruiting with UNC. Relax man.

I agree we have been getting smashed as of late on the recruiting front.
We definitely have.

But I'm hoping with Kyrie and our other recurits/the rest of our team we can
get back to longer runs in the NCAAs and hopefully this will help on this end. Our early exits I'm sure hasn't helped at all.

It's not over.

It can't be over....

Well its not only that... its just Roy in most every head to head match up he's had with Coach K (whether on or off the court) has destroyed him.

I'm not sure how much the "its so much harder to recruit to Duke" argument is going to hold up if this keeps up... This and the fact we the most exciting player we've got in a while (E Will) just stinks.

vango
11-13-2009, 04:45 PM
Awaiting all the avatars with Barnes in a Duke t-shirt. :)

Billy Dat
11-13-2009, 04:45 PM
Watching that press conference unfold, only to hear him say, "Coach Roy Williams?" WAS literally like getting a nasty stomach punch.....uhhhhhh....I have never watched one of those before with so much on the line....man it stung......and it was either us or Heel fans that were gonna feel that way...no one else watching thought they had a chance....left at the altar...PAINFUL....HB, if you were going for dramatic effect, you got what you wanted.

loran16
11-13-2009, 04:45 PM
I believe our image is a bigger problem than the mechanics of what we are doing on a visit or how Coach talks to someone. There are multiple reasons/explanations for it, but our image has taken a hit in recent years and we are paying a price (to a degree) in recruiting.

Could be, but that's an awfully self-perpetuating downward spiral you're talking about.....and i'd rather not think about that.

I mean, could one recruiting class (my Freshman year's, the one for 05-06) really completely derail a school's recruiting? I'd like not to believe that.

(Of course the whole thing is moot if we make the Final four the next 2 years. Which we will of course. )

BlueDevilBaby
11-13-2009, 04:46 PM
Bummer. We'll just have to beat him 8+ times.

Franzez
11-13-2009, 04:46 PM
Roy+Jordan.

I wouldn't underestimate that factor.

dukemsu

Main reason IMO.

Jordan's impact at the university is stronger than it was 10 years ago, hes transformed from famous UNC alumnus into powerful UNC booster.

The fact he had his Jordan brand UNC's jerseys being worn by the Tar Holes the other night shows how much power he has.

tecumseh
11-13-2009, 04:47 PM
Duke fans are spoiled I know this one hurts but a buddy of mine is a big Iowa State fan and this is a killer. Harrison Barnes Mom works there, his dad played there, he has been working out with the varsity players for since eighth grade on a regular basis he has been going to games there since he was in grade school.

It really drives home the point that they are second class program now. I think he would have gone to A LOT of schools in similar situations. I mean if he was from Winston Salem he would have gone to Wake, College Park...Maryland, Champaign Urbana, Univ of Illl etc. etc. etc.

loran16
11-13-2009, 04:47 PM
Bullocks.

We missed one recruit. A big one, but that is distracting people. The decision is complex - its not just UNC vs Duke. It's how much playing time can I get, who do I play behind, who do I play with, what are the academic options, etc. There are so many factors that come into play,we only know few, and those few are filtered through a lens of team preferences. The main issue with Barnes' recruitment is all the obsession of players on all sides being posted on the internet and bounced around in little echo caves.

This is not the end of the world. Unfortunate, yes. Irritating, yes. But the staff has already moved on and we should move on as well.

Season starts tonight, BTW.

Seriously, if academics are why he chose UNC i'll eat my foot. Once again, no matter how "good" UNC's academics are, their academics are NOT Duke Caliber. No way. No how.

Stanford over Duke, sure. UNC over Duke no. The presence of a "business program" does not change that.

juise
11-13-2009, 04:52 PM
Bummer. We'll just have to beat him 8+ times.


I'm hoping for 2-3, frankly.

feldspar
11-13-2009, 04:52 PM
It was probably a coin flip for him in terms of what he would get personally from UNC vs. Duke. I’m sure his family affinity (ie, mom) for UNC was the deciding factor.

miramar
11-13-2009, 04:53 PM
"I'm always big on what you have, not what you don't have."

So next year we will have a backcourt of Smith, Curry, Dawkins, Irving, and Dawkins.

In the frontcout, Plumlee, Plumlee, Kelly, Olek, and Hairston.

We'll be fine, but it hurts to have ol' Roy just swoop in...

AlaskanAssassin
11-13-2009, 04:53 PM
This could effect the team and the coaches performance tonight. We'll see by their actions.

micah75
11-13-2009, 04:54 PM
Okay, I know that many of you are anxiously awaiting to hear my take on all this. All I ask is that you kindly be patient. I do have some interesting, really far out comments I wish to share. Unfortunately, my mind is drawing a blank at the moment, and of course old age and senility are setting in. So, I will sleep on this, perhaps for several days. And if that doesn't work, I will seek out a speech writer to assist me in writing something clever and coherent. In the meantime, I would like to give a big shout out to all my friends and fans on the board who have been so supportive over the years. Stay tuned....

jws
11-13-2009, 04:54 PM
Tough day for Duke.

This is exactly how I felt when Shane Battier chose Duke.

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 04:55 PM
of college hoops sets up like this:

Superpowers: UNC, Kentucky, Kansas
Next rung: UCLA, Duke

After that, you'll get the odd year from Michigan State or Ohio State (next year's class could push them back to Oden-like heights) or a two-year run from Florida.

But right now, everything is going to UNC and Kentucky, with Kansas a step behind.

It sucks.

dukemsu

mj2345
11-13-2009, 04:55 PM
anyone else think that whole press conference was a little over the top. I mean skyyping the coach on national television.

I hope Singler hangs around another year to welcome him to the biggest rivalry in sports.

NYC Duke Fan
11-13-2009, 04:59 PM
Roy Williams is just better right now than Coach K. He is a better recruiter and is at worst the equal of him as a coach but probably slightly better, judging from his recent NCAA success, and you know what, it is OK. You can't have the best or be the best all the time, and right now Duke does not have the best recruiter and possibly not the best coach..

Billy Dat
11-13-2009, 04:59 PM
anyone else think that whole press conference was a little over the top. I mean skyyping the coach on national television.

I hope Singler hangs around another year to welcome him to the biggest rivalry in sports.

I don't think so...the kid had fun with it...until I heard him say Roy's name, I thought it was great.

Tucknut
11-13-2009, 05:00 PM
Should have learned my lesson with JWall. But after this, I'll never get excited about a teenager committing to Duke until I see him on the court in a Blue Devil jersey.

Time to focus on the here and now. Game 1 tonight. LET'S go DEVils!

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 05:01 PM
Roy Williams is just better right now than Coach K. He is a better recruiter and is at worst the equal of him as a coach but probably slightly better, judging from his recent NCAA success, and you know what, it is OK. You can't have the best or be the best all the time, and right now Duke does not have the best recruiter and possibly not the best coach..

Neither is the best coach. Several are better game coaches.

Recruiting is the biggest part of it, and right now, Duke is losing to UNC all the time.

dukemsu

rhcpflea99
11-13-2009, 05:02 PM
Should have learned my lesson with JWall. But after this, I'll never get excited about a teenager committing to Duke until I see him on the court in a Blue Devil jersey.

Time to focus on the here and now. Game 1 tonight. LET'S go DEVils!

Amen brother

feldspar
11-13-2009, 05:03 PM
Roy is beating K head-to-head on a consistent basis. That much is pretty clear.

AlaskanAssassin
11-13-2009, 05:04 PM
james mcadoo now harrison barnes. AHHHHHHHH!

DevilCastDownfromDurham
11-13-2009, 05:05 PM
Roy is beating K head-to-head on a consistent basis. That much is pretty clear.

Not everywhere. Only on the court, in the tournament and in recruiting. Otherwise things have been great . . .

Indoor66
11-13-2009, 05:05 PM
Okay, I know that many of you are anxiously awaiting to hear my take on all this. All I ask is that you kindly be patient. I do have some interesting, really far out comments I wish to share. Unfortunately, my mind is drawing a blank at the moment, and of course old age and senility are setting in. So, I will sleep on this, perhaps for several days. And if that doesn't work, I will seek out a speech writer to assist me in writing something clever and coherent. In the meantime, I would like to give a big shout out to all my friends and fans on the board who have been so supportive over the years. Stay tuned....

Your ego far outstrips your rhetoric. :D

monkey
11-13-2009, 05:06 PM
Roy is beating K head-to-head on a consistent basis. That much is pretty clear.

Agreed. The question is really why? Can definitely see why Roy picks up his share of the top recruits. Not sure why he looks like he is winning _all_ of the battles...

ChicagoCrazy84
11-13-2009, 05:11 PM
Man, this hurts and I forgot about james McAdoo. Ugh!

feldspar
11-13-2009, 05:12 PM
Agreed. The question is really why? Can definitely see why Roy picks up his share of the top recruits. Not sure why he looks like he is winning _all_ of the battles...

At this point, I'm not sure anything stands more in K's way than another NC. At the VERY least, a couple of straight Final Four runs. Recruits may be doubting K's ability to "get the job done," as it were.

RockyMtDevil
11-13-2009, 05:12 PM
Wow, what a performance. 18 years old, center stage, a crowd of middle america waiting on your every move, the standing ovation....All this for a kid who can put a ball through a basket. Maybe it is sour grapes, but man there are more important things in life than hoops.

Oh well, we lost once again to Roy and to UNC. It stinks, but they are categorically better than us at every phase. Anyone out there still think K being the Olympic coach is a good thing?

I'm tired of losing to unc on every front.

tecumseh
11-13-2009, 05:12 PM
The new world order can change fast. One good run to the Final Four.

Relax guys IF Barnes is as good as advertised he was a one and done, and how much does that really help. Yeah I know Carmello etc. Getting a good point guard was much more important IMHO. So we got the recruit we really needed.

I think the key to UNC resurgence was Tyler Hansborough and he was a not quite elite type NBA type player so he stuck around.

dukelifer
11-13-2009, 05:13 PM
Man, this hurts and I forgot about james McAdoo. Ugh!
A lot of the other recruits are going to be doing a lot of sitting next year.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
11-13-2009, 05:13 PM
Agreed. The question is really why? Can definitely see why Roy picks up his share of the top recruits. Not sure why he looks like he is winning _all_ of the battles...

Definitely not a conversation to have today, with passions running so high and probably not a conversation allowed (honestly) under the posting rules in any event. Trend since '04 seems pretty clear though.

Ohiobobcat204
11-13-2009, 05:17 PM
I love K, always will. But Roy is head and shoulders above him in recruiting. An earlier post said our image has taken a hit in recent years and i agree. We are known as a team who cant get past the sweet 16. UNC is known as a team who is contending for a title each and every year, i hate to admit it. But the tar holes are way ahead of us in so many areas right now

SeattleIrish
11-13-2009, 05:18 PM
Barnes is a really great kid and I'll be rooting for him, even over there. We need more student athletes like him, so we better appreciate it when one comes along - regardless of his choice of schools.

s.i.

dukestheheat
11-13-2009, 05:20 PM
For some reason, K is losing recruiting battles (this one is a big one) to Roy and this has been going on since he came back to Carolina; right now, I'm disappointed but I can only imagine what K is thinking. Our staff worked hard to get him here and to lose out like this is tough.

I do think, however, that he's going to play one year and go pro.

I do wish him luck at UNC, but right now I'm in a bad mood about this whole thing.

dth.

Jeffrey
11-13-2009, 05:20 PM
We've had a couple of "top" recruits who did not end up playing at that level. Now, most "top" recruits do not stay more than two years. This is not the end of the world as we know it.

We have an elite PG coming to Duke and I'm very happy about that!

ChemGod
11-13-2009, 05:22 PM
Am I the only one that is not disappointed that the author of the narcissistic fiasco is NOT coming to Duke?

I see all of the posts "Great kid" and what-now...and I admit to not following the recruiting at all this year.

I did not like what I saw...and aside from missing the talent I am not unhappy about this...

bird
11-13-2009, 05:23 PM
Agreed. The question is really why? Can definitely see why Roy picks up his share of the top recruits. Not sure why he looks like he is winning _all_ of the battles...

True or not, Duke is getting a rep as a grade-grubbing, nerd city. Students looking for a more all-round college experience are looking elsewhere, while the academic overachievers looking for academic college rankings and a sparkling grad school application appear to be flocking to Duke.

This is the perspective of a parent of a high school senior going through the college selection process, who could not even get Duke on the list. Shoot, I had family members with very close ties to Duke advising against even applying to Duke.

Onlyduke
11-13-2009, 05:28 PM
We all feel bad, really, really bad ..... but image how Coach K feels. He's been recruiting HB for a long time.

Jeffrey
11-13-2009, 05:29 PM
..... while the academic overachievers looking for academic college rankings and a sparkling grad school application appear to be flocking to Duke.

Good point! These are not overly important to a guy who will probably be playing in the NBA after two or less years of college.

In my world, they're strong reasons to go to Duke.

VaDukie
11-13-2009, 05:29 PM
Right now it feels like we're the Red Sox and they're the Yankees. We're taking a beating again, and again, and again...

I'm just waiting for our 2004 ALCS moment. Please let it be soon.

Kedsy
11-13-2009, 05:30 PM
Let's just face it, we can not compete in recruiting with UNC, I don't know what the reason is, but we will be playing second fiddle to them for a long time. I just do not see how anyone could have anything positive to say about this situation, the reality is UNC will more than likely, win it all next year. We just don't have the core to do that.

In my opinion, every one of these statements is ridiculous.

I won't even talk about how you know what's going to happen for a "long time," but not only can Duke compete with UNC recruiting-wise, I like what we did better this year. You have to remember Andre Dawkins was part of this recruiting class -- he was just able to graduate high school a year early -- and we also got Seth Curry. So: Barnes + Bullock + Marshall vs. Irving + Dawkins + Curry + Hairston + Thornton. I like ours better.

Second, UNC will have a lot of talent next year, but they still won't have the lightning quick PG that Roy would prefer. Neither Drew nor Marshall will ever be that guy. Ed Davis will likely be gone after this season. They'll probably be top 5, but they'll be relying on an awful lot of freshmen and sophomores.

Even if UNC is the #1 team in the country next year (which I'm not convinced they will be) to say they are more than likely to win the title is just plain silly. Will their team be anywhere close to as good as the 2002 Duke team was? Or the 2006 Duke team? Or even the 2008 UNC team?

Finally, to say we don't have the core to compete for a championship makes no sense to me. We should have between 4 and 8 NBA players on our roster, including one of the top PGs in the country and plenty of size. What's wrong with that core?

There's a difference between disappointment and out-and-out negativism.

Bluedog
11-13-2009, 05:30 PM
This is the perspective of a parent of a high school senior going through the college selection process, who could not even get Duke on the list. Shoot, I had family members with very close ties to Duke advising against even applying to Duke.

Uh, well Duke's ED apps were up 33% this year so I think we're doing okay having high school seniors apply to Duke. But recruiting athletes is a completely different animal...

Kedsy
11-13-2009, 05:32 PM
A lot of the other recruits are going to be doing a lot of sitting next year.

Isn't McAdoo 2011?

roywhite
11-13-2009, 05:33 PM
We all feel bad, really, really bad ..... but image how Coach K feels. He's been recruiting HB for a long time.

Amen...sorry, Coach, you did a great job...no second guessing on tactics.

My .02...
Somewhere along the line, I think HB's perspective changed from college basketball player/college student to basketball player/soon-to-be NBA player. Maybe when he saw projections of being a #1 draft choice, or top five draft choice in 2011 or 2012.

So he opted for the "fast-food" college experience of UNC, rather than a "sit-down" meal at Duke.

Oh, well. HB may be a great college player or he may be a one-and-done who has little real impact on the college game. We'll see.

roywhite
11-13-2009, 05:35 PM
Uh, well Duke's ED apps were up 33% this year so I think we're doing okay having high school seniors apply to Duke. But recruiting athletes is a completely different animal...

Yeah, we'll never get exceptional athletes like Kyrie Irving, Curtis Beach, or Mallory Cecil...:confused:

feldspar
11-13-2009, 05:39 PM
In all this, I forgot for a moment that we have Seth Curry next year.

That helps cheer me up quite a bit.

Bluedog
11-13-2009, 05:41 PM
Yeah, we'll never get exceptional athletes like Kyrie Irving, Curtis Beach, or Mallory Cecil...:confused:

ha, I wasn't saying that we don't get amazing athletes. I was just responding bird's comment that Duke doesn't get well-rounded "normal" students to apply and instead only get brainiacs obsessed with academics. That's clearly untrue. Then I meant to contrast the recruitment of athletes with the recruiting "normal" students; not by success rate, but by strategy. I'd say we've been incredibly successful at both, but the strategies involved differ. That's all.

DukeBlueNikeShox
11-13-2009, 05:42 PM
I guess it was all smoke and BS when he claimed that academics were important to him. It obviously wasn't that important because rather than choosing a university that's ranked among the top 10 universities in the country and top 15 universities in the world, he chose a school that's not ranked among the top 25 in the country nor the top 100 in the world...:confused:

BlueintheFace
11-13-2009, 05:43 PM
K has been changing his recruiting strategy a fair amount recently. I believe the next change he makes will be to get rid of his policy of encouraging recruits to go all the way through the recruiting process.

tecumseh
11-13-2009, 05:43 PM
Someone mentioned the top of the heap are Kentucky, Carolina and Kansas very classic names. Does anyone here other than me feel bad for ISU. In the old days a really hot recruit would come and you could remake a program. Think of Johnny Dawkins at Duke. Now it is just impossible.

Harrison Barnes is great but he probably a one or two year deal. College basketball is turning into MLB. A few programs end with a lot of the blue chippers. And the kids who used to turn programs around end up after their freshman or sophomore year in the NBA.

Maybe its because I am a Pitt fan only but boy is there a lot of crying here because we are not Carolina.

kexman
11-13-2009, 05:46 PM
Obviously anyone who would pick UNC is somewhat flawed and has character issues that we did not previously realize. However, I will say this for Roy Williams and UNC...

1) They play an uptempo style that would be appealing to play in...particularly the super athletic NBA type players

2) UNC tends to play a lot of people (partly due to the style) so it is more likely that you will get playing time as a freshman (not that HB probably is worrying about playing time). Caveat: that is my impression, but I bet someone will go through the box scores to look at minutes played for Duke vs. UNC and potentially prove me wrong)

3) It is not always required that you play defense at Carolina....you just outscore your opponents:) That might be appealing as well!

calgirl
11-13-2009, 05:47 PM
Well, I am disappointed. Even so, I'll be breaking out Duke blue and supporting the Devils tonight. (Note to Stone Age Devil: If you are reading this thread, take an aspirin and lie down.)

taiw93
11-13-2009, 05:48 PM
It is times like this that make this rivarly so great. Since this is the first big Duke-UNC recruiting battle that I've followed closely, I can honestly say that I've never hated UNC as much as I do now. But at the same time, I have an huge amount of respect for Harrison Barnes - and that is what makes it hurt the most. A victory (or two) over UNC next year would be as sweet as ever, and I know in my heart that we can take them with Kyrie at the helm.

To Harrison Barnes, congratulations. You are a great kid, and would be a welcome addition at any school. And even though I hate your guts, I have a lot of respect for you. I wish you success in your career (except of course, for two games per year, in which I hope you are completely dominated).
GTHC, now and forever

bass-piscator
11-13-2009, 05:48 PM
As other posters have said, Kyrie was a MUCH bigger pickup than Barnes. Duke thrives on a great PG. Never the less, just when I thought I couldn't hate Roy Williams more...... Especially that Howdy Doody smile.

And who's the fool on this board that said Williams is a better on the floor coach than K? I don't even know if he's a better recruitor. I think some kids just get the feeling, wrongly, that Duke is an uppity, snobby school. Where UNC-Chappel Hell (has anyone ever posted that before? I'm rather proud of myself) is the cooler place to be. There may even be peer pressure from friends to go to UNC.

Jackson
11-13-2009, 05:49 PM
I wanted Barnes as much as anyone here did...BUT, we have Kyrie Irving coming next year, both Plumlees, Smith, Kelly, Hairston and Thornton....and maybe, just maybe, Kyle Singler coming back. How many would trade a freshman Harrison Barnes for a senior Kyle Singler? Not me! We aren't second fiddle to the holes! K has shown he can still recruit with the best....I like our chances this year and next year!!

dukebsbll14
11-13-2009, 05:49 PM
Well, disappointing loss. I think the thing that has really aggravated me the most is that Barnes chose of UNC because it has the "perfect balance of athletics and academics." Thats a hit below the belt to Duke (at least to me). Lets be serious, if hes as good as they say, he may play two years tops.

Whatever, it is what it is. I'll be sure to give him hell when he comes to Cameron next year (so start gathering outside admissions and tell them to let me in! haha) Make him regret this decision. GTHC, GTH!!!

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 05:55 PM
Someone mentioned the top of the heap are Kentucky, Carolina and Kansas very classic names. Does anyone here other than me feel bad for ISU. In the old days a really hot recruit would come and you could remake a program. Think of Johnny Dawkins at Duke. Now it is just impossible.

Harrison Barnes is great but he probably a one or two year deal. College basketball is turning into MLB. A few programs end with a lot of the blue chippers. And the kids who used to turn programs around end up after their freshman or sophomore year in the NBA.

Maybe its because I am a Pitt fan only but boy is there a lot of crying here because we are not Carolina.

This is exactly right. There are only a handful of teams who will be competing for the national title, and fewer still who can win. Duke is still in the group, but on the periphery. Most teams can't even get into or stay on the periphery.

For example, MSU fans have a hard time dealing with the fact that they can't recruit with UNC, KU, UCLA, etc. MSU is losing their mind over the fact that Trey Zeigler, a kid from Mt. Pleasant, MI, is likely going to UCLA. MSU hasn't done anything wrong. They just aren't UCLA. Schools like MSU have to be happy with their once in awhile run at the crown, and hope they win it win they get there. MSU can't get the kids the top schools can. Except, of course, State did get Delvon Roe, which Ol' Roy is still seething about and classlessly bashed Roe about in his ghost-written book.

Duke's not in that condition. Duke's still in the running for the best players. Just have to get a few more.

dukemsu

SeattleIrish
11-13-2009, 05:56 PM
My testosterone level really took a nosedive; this "miss" really stings.

That said, I'm hoping the sour-grape-posts end quickly. One of the things I've always admired about the posters on this board is that they/we are able to remain civil even when things don't go our way.

He's a great kid that had to make a very difficult decision. Let's get us a little Roscoe love!

s.i.

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 05:56 PM
This is exactly right. There are only a handful of teams who will be competing for the national title, and fewer still who can win. Duke is still in the group, but on the periphery. Most teams can't even get into or stay on the periphery.

For example, MSU fans have a hard time dealing with the fact that they can't recruit with UNC, KU, UCLA, etc. MSU is losing their mind over the fact that Trey Zeigler, a kid from Mt. Pleasant, MI, is likely going to UCLA. MSU hasn't done anything wrong. They just aren't UCLA. Schools like MSU have to be happy with their once in awhile run at the crown, and hope they win it win they get there. MSU can't get the kids the top schools can. Except, of course, State did get Delvon Roe, which Ol' Roy is still seething about and classlessly bashed Roe about in his ghost-written book.

Duke's not in that condition. Duke's still in the running for the best players. Just have to get a few more.

dukemsu

I didn't mean to put a thumb down! Sorry!

dukemsu

should_be_working
11-13-2009, 05:58 PM
Very disappointed not to get Barnes, but can't say I'm surprised. There seemed to be a lot of little things that happened over the last few weeks/months that gave me a bad feeling about today. The Williams meeting after the Coach K home visit, the huge amount of ground unc made up after his campus visit, the fact that K was visiting Smith just a few days ago, etc... Guess some of those crazy rumors had a little truth to them?

As for the idea that the coaching staff was very confident about the Barnes decision - well I hope they weren't too confident cause that makes the day all the more frustrating for them.

The season starts in about an hour and the second after the tip-off, for me, the disappointment disappears.

Exiled_Devil
11-13-2009, 05:59 PM
Roy is beating K head-to-head on a consistent basis. That much is pretty clear.

A couple people have said this. I think that this assessment is deeply influenced by the recent, burning example.

What is the list of head to head recruits that Roy has gotten that K wanted?

And what is the list of recruits that K got that Roy wanted?

My guess is that the data is inconclusive.

juise
11-13-2009, 06:00 PM
I think the key to UNC resurgence was Tyler Hansborough and he was a not quite elite type NBA type player so he stuck around.

This is a good point. I had a similar thought. My brain really tends to compare Harrison with Brandan Wright... mostly because of his size and potential to go to the league (I realize they play different positions and have different skills). He'll be in an impact player for a short time, but not a program-changing player and possibly not enough to bring home a title (though I really liked Duke's chances with him on the roster :().

tecumseh
11-13-2009, 06:00 PM
Is a Final Four or national title or how about

Kobe you want playing time in London I need you to land me this kid, D Wade want to be the star in London here are few phone numbers...just kidding

yancem
11-13-2009, 06:01 PM
Amen...sorry, Coach, you did a great job...no second guessing on tactics.

My .02...
Somewhere along the line, I think HB's perspective changed from college basketball player/college student to basketball player/soon-to-be NBA player. Maybe when he saw projections of being a #1 draft choice, or top five draft choice in 2011 or 2012.

So he opted for the "fast-food" college experience of UNC, rather than a "sit-down" meal at Duke.

Oh, well. HB may be a great college player or he may be a one-and-done who has little real impact on the college game. We'll see.

I was thinking the same thing. It would seem to me if education was a deciding factor and he plans on staying college for multiple years, Duke would have made more sense. However if he is starting to think that he will be a top 5 pick after his freshman year and will likely enter the draft, maybe unc makes more sense. There is a good chance he could win a championship at either school, but unc offers the chance to take a less rigorous academic load which allows him to concentrate more fully on basketball. That's not to knock on unc as an academic institution but it is a large state school which makes it easier to blend.

Now I'm really hoping that Singler returns for his senior year and a shot at the nc and to get his jersey in the rafters.

cspan37421
11-13-2009, 06:06 PM
There seems to be a correlation between low post count and a "the sky is falling" mentality.

We've been to Final Fours with a LOT less talent than we have now. We can do it; it's up to the coaches to coach and the players to make plays.

If it's any consolation to the worry warts, maybe UNC (and UK) will have chemistry problems, selfishness, resentment over minutes, etc. Bottom line, I don't care - we've got great players and a great coach. If some recruit would rather be at UNC, that's his problem. What are you going to do? Would you rather have someone on your team who would rather be a tar heel? Let him go. From the sound of it (the skype clowning around), it's a better fit for him.

calltheobvious
11-13-2009, 06:11 PM
"...I like the academic plan they had for me." (italics added)

This line irritates me almost beyond words, mostly because it's so silly that it strikes me as more of a rationalization than a reason. All of whiich leads me back to the primary question, Why did this happen?

IBleedBlue
11-13-2009, 06:11 PM
I browsed over the IC board and apparently someone is saying that this decision was not made recently. It was done a few weeks ago after Roy's visit to Iowa. And that is why Coach K was watching Roscoe Smith play as well.
Again, good kid and good character, bad choice!! Let's move on and support the current group as hard as we always did!!

proelitedota
11-13-2009, 06:12 PM
We did not get Barnes, but he would have been just icing on the cake for what is a monster team we have for 2010. With Barnes, we might have had trouble trying to fit all our talents on the court and give each one their fair share of playtime. ;)

RainingThrees
11-13-2009, 06:17 PM
F word. Now I must go drown my sorrows.

DevilHorns
11-13-2009, 06:19 PM
I've had the taste of vomit in my mouth for 2 hrs now.

This sucks, but remember he is not proven in college. Frankly, no one is. If we can land Roscoe, he may be far superior to Barnes (just how Hans ended up being a better pick that McBob). This just sucks since we put our all into it. The staff did it completely right. I think HB was just wow'd over by the recent success at UNC. It's hard to recruit against that momentum.

oldnavy
11-13-2009, 06:19 PM
I was thinking. I feel worse about this than a loss to the holes on the court. Why? Well, because we were rejected by someone we wanted to like us more than the next guy (or gal). Not only that, but this person liked our arch enemy which makes it sting even more. We will go through the normal, "what is wrong with me/us" phase. But we will eventually rebound and find the right match and wonder why we got so upset in the first place. The tincture of time does wonders to heal a broken heart:cool:.

Indoor66
11-13-2009, 06:20 PM
I am truly tired of this discussion. Maybe we discuss the upcoming season? Gee, the first game is in about 40 minutes. Let's move on to what is important, not dwell on what is not.

soccerstud2210
11-13-2009, 06:21 PM
Very disappointed not to get Barnes, but can't say I'm surprised. There seemed to be a lot of little things that happened over the last few weeks/months that gave me a bad feeling about today. The Williams meeting after the Coach K home visit, the huge amount of ground unc made up after his campus visit, the fact that K was visiting Smith just a few days ago, etc... Guess some of those crazy rumors had a little truth to them?

As for the idea that the coaching staff was very confident about the Barnes decision - well I hope they weren't too confident cause that makes the day all the more frustrating for them.

The season starts in about an hour and the second after the tip-off, for me, the disappointment disappears.

100% agree. this was no surprise to me. it was like writing on the wall. none of the so called rumors were about any other school but duke. it should have been a hint this was coming. i never had a good feeling about this the last couple weeks or so. dont get me wrong, i wanted him to come to duke so bad, but did not count on him coming.

what sucks is that roscoe may not be coming either. and if rivers was waiting to see where things ended up then who knows if he'll even be looking at duke any more. just saying

the world goes on. duke is still duke. but we are no longer the top dawg in the country let alone acc.

game time tonight. hopefully we can take some aggression out! all we need is to go out there and get beaten like syracuse.

how would that be for a friday the 13th huh???

Duke4life92
11-13-2009, 06:22 PM
I wanted Barnes as much as anyone here did...BUT, we have Kyrie Irving coming next year, both Plumlees, Smith, Kelly, Hairston and Thornton....and maybe, just maybe, Kyle Singler coming back. How many would trade a freshman Harrison Barnes for a senior Kyle Singler? Not me! We aren't second fiddle to the holes! K has shown he can still recruit with the best....I like our chances this year and next year!!

Don't forget to throw in a great young player in seth curry to that mix and if roscoe is signed we will be in great shape!!!

feldspar
11-13-2009, 06:34 PM
I am truly tired of this discussion. Maybe we discuss the upcoming season? Gee, the first game is in about 40 minutes. Let's move on to what is important, not dwell on what is not.

You're more than welcome to spend your time in the UNCG thread and ignore this one.

juise
11-13-2009, 06:40 PM
You're more than welcome to spend your time in the UNCG thread and ignore this one.

Seriously. I love Duke's current team and hope they look sharp against UNC-G tonight (in fact, I hope they take out some aggression as if it was UNC-CH). But... I think that this recruitment has more impact on the program than tonight's game will.

elvis14
11-13-2009, 06:42 PM
Selfishly, I really hope we play well tonight. Between reading about MP2's broken wrist this morning and then having HB turn out to be true evil I'm really bummed out. This is a HUGE recruiting loss. It's upsetting that UNC has the upper hand on us in every way possible. There's no silver lining to this one. Looks like most posters on here feel like I do...punched in the gut! I'm really glad I've managed to avoid the local UNC fans the last couple hours.

Just finished my first beer (not my last!).

soccerstud2210
11-13-2009, 06:45 PM
Seriously. I love Duke's current team and hope they look sharp against UNC-G tonight (in fact, I hope they take out some aggression as if it was UNC-CH). But... I think that this recruitment has more impact on the program than tonight's game will.

i agree. not only do we know now that roy can come in and get pretty much anyone he wants regardless of how long we have been recruiting him or building a "relationship" with him, but now the whole world knows. and frankly its embarrassing and disheartening at the same time.

BUT

we are duke. coach K is coach K. that is huge!

long live duke.

we will rebound and overcome.

west_coast_devil
11-13-2009, 06:51 PM
I just found out the news, and to be honest I'm shocked!! I really was convinced in my mind he was coming to Duke.

Good luck to HB in the future, except when he has a UNC jersey on! Now I must despise him, not because he picked the tar-holes over Duke, rather because he is now simply a tar-hole.

GO DUKE!!!

Son of Mojo
11-13-2009, 06:58 PM
I truly thought Coach's lengthy relationship and Irving's friendship would've had more weight and substance than unc's academic plan. Not sure how their plan could mean more. Guess the goat's boosters got another one :rolleyes: I keeeeeeeeed (maybe........). Oh well--I'd rather have a kid come in who wants to be at Duke and make a difference for his education and his teammates than the media fest that apparently occurred today. Still, it is surprising. Time to move on and find someone who really cares about what Coach puts forth. Time to beat my alma mater (uncG) now. Go Devils!!!

pamtar
11-13-2009, 07:06 PM
I wish Earl Jam was here...

CDu
11-13-2009, 07:06 PM
i agree. not only do we know now that roy can come in and get pretty much anyone he wants regardless of how long we have been recruiting him or building a "relationship" with him, but now the whole world knows. and frankly its embarrassing and disheartening at the same time.

BUT

we are duke. coach K is coach K. that is huge!

long live duke.

we will rebound and overcome.

This is part of what hurts the most. Not only did we lose another recruiting battle to UNC (Williams is on a HUGE recruiting roll), but we also lost a battle in which UNC was late to the party and we were SO involved for SO long.

On top of that, Barnes seemed like the quintessential Duke recruit. Smart kid, focused, with plans beyond basketball. For whatever reasons, the fact that we couldn't get this guy hurts a lot.

The team will continue to be very good. This year's squad has a lot of talent and we still have a good recruiting class coming in. But again, it appears that UNC's recruiting class will be better than ours. Hopefully some of their recruits don't pan out, and some of ours are even better than expected.

I'll get over it, but it sure stinks right now. Hopefully a blowout win tonight will help ease the blow for the time being.

Poincaré
11-13-2009, 07:09 PM
Harrison Barnes has ruined my weekend... Here's where we were mistaken about him: He wants a good education, not the best education. We all thought he wanted the best (Duke). UNC provides a good education, and he decided that it was good enough. Honestly, I hope that he averages 1.2 ppg in a four-year career at UNC and wins the biggest Power Ball lottery in history. Best of luck to you Harrison (in non-basketball matters).

So...someone please explain to me that the following are not true. I get the feeling that we are headed down the path to becoming a very good program and no longer a Top 4 program.

1. Myth: Duke has not produced NBA players. Truth: Duke has not produced NBA superstars.

We have the most NBA players of any school in the country, but none of them are superstars. Elton Brand and Carlos Boozer are stars, but not superstars. Our one superstar (Grant Hill) has been transformed into a merely good player due to horrific ankle injuries. Our potential superstars were all felled by unfortunate injuries or accidents.

Consider this, Kenny Boynton, who many thought would go to Duke, said that he was turned off by the Jason Williams comparisons made by Coach K. Why? Because Jason Williams is not an NBA superstar. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Top high school players want to become NBA superstars, not solid NBA players (or even just regular NBA stars).

In the end, it may be the case that seeing UNC NBA (past-their-prime-though-they-may-be) superstars in the alumni game and the Michael Jordan effect may have tipped Harrison Barnes toward UNC.

2. The one-and-done rule is killing us.

All the talented but academically disinterested kids who would have jumped directly to the NBA in the past are now forced to attend school. This is bad on multiple levels. First, we now have to beat schools with these kids in the tourney. Second, not all of these kids are obvious one-or-two-and-dones on the surface. We may either get them and have them leave after making no impact (paging McBob), or have them string us along only to land elsewhere. Either way, we are wasting valuable resources (scholarships and recruiting time) that we would not be wasting if these one-and-dones self-selected themselves into the draft.

Our 2001 title was won at the height of the early-entry frenzy. Just look at the 2001 draft class. Consider that the Super Six was our last truly amazing recruiting class and the temporal proximity to the institution of the one-and-done rule.

3. UNC being good is bad for us.

I am going to punch the next person who says this in the nuts. ANY program being a national power is bad for us on the margin because there is fierce competition for a limited resource: top recruits. It's worse when UNC is good because they don't recruit the Calipari kids; they recruit the same kids we do. Plus they have a number of past NBA superstars that the kids remember from TV or shoe commercials.

Jackson
11-13-2009, 07:15 PM
Don't forget to throw in a great young player in seth curry to that mix and if roscoe is signed we will be in great shape!!!

How could I forget Seth!!!! I can't wait until Duke shocks the world next year again! In K We Trust!

Lord Ash
11-13-2009, 07:19 PM
Think the world of Harrison, and listening to him made me like him better. I totally, totally had him pegged as a Duke guy, a guy who would see Coach K, a West Point grad, a solid coach, a real leader of men, and decide he wanted to spend his time learning from him. After all this time... and then to have Roy Williams just jump in?

This stinks. After Wright and Monroe and Patterson and Boynton and... I don't know, it feels like so many very, very important misses recently. And unfortunately some of the players who seemed like they would deliver at the very highest level (McRoberts, Greg P., Shav) simply did not. That double play just leaves me very unhappy.

And it just adds insult to injury that Carolina is in the middle of a somewhat epic run. Two titles in four years with two entirely different teams, and following that up with recruits like Davis and Henson and Barnes and Bullock and... well... I remember very clearly the day Ty Lawson committed to UNC, and thinking "Oh know... this guy is going to be a huge problem," and I have to admit I feel that way again... and man, the idea of Roy going out with more titles than K, especially after K whupped him for years at Kansas...

*sigh* This stinks.

Lord Ash
11-13-2009, 07:25 PM
Eh, not THAT well thought out. If Carlos Boozer and Elton Brand and Luol Deng aren't NBA superstars, who is? Kobe? No school produced him. Lebron? No school produced him. What school IS producing NBA superstars then?

I do think the UNC 100 year celebration sealed the deal in a lot of ways though... very, very hard to sit through that and NOT want to be a part of it.

AlaskanAssassin
11-13-2009, 07:30 PM
Eh, not THAT well thought out. If Carlos Boozer and Elton Brand and Luol Deng aren't NBA superstars, who is? Kobe? No school produced him. Lebron? No school produced him. What school IS producing NBA superstars then?

I do think the UNC 100 year celebration sealed the deal in a lot of ways though... very, very hard to sit through that and NOT want to be a part of it.

True. That's what sealed McAdoo. Who wouldn't want to be apart of that group, eh?

:rolleyes:

dukeballer2294
11-13-2009, 07:45 PM
w/e "next play" we win some and we lose some, remember that we just landed another top tier player and hopefully we can reel in RS. Lets have a great year and i hope nobody is silly enough to start with the he cant recruit comments.

calvindog
11-13-2009, 08:29 PM
It's very upsetting that K has missed out on so many top targets in a row: Patterson, Monroe, Boynton, Barnes and I'm sure I'm missing others. We were on top of the world in recruiting not so long ago -- and maybe now those days are over forever. I always assumed that K would have the pick of the litter until he retired. Now I wonder if that era is over forever. I do hope that Capel continues to grow as a coach and recruiter at OU and that we can grab him when the time is right.

speedevil2001
11-13-2009, 08:58 PM
We're all disappointed. Please keep it civil.

-jk

What do u guys think was the key for harrison to choose unc?

I know unc came on late and harrison was our #1 target for a while.

kong123
11-13-2009, 08:59 PM
the sky is falling the sky is falling

its a shame to see how fast we turned on HB by mocking his presentation.

why dont you turn on the tv and watch the boys play? sure, you can feel sorry for yourself, but in the end- why? the tradition will still continue, with or without Barnes.

kong123
11-13-2009, 09:01 PM
the holes were 4 months behind us, big deal.

he likes the offense
he likes Roy
he bonded with the existing players

i am sure there are more, but those are what he mentioned in his interview

speedevil2001
11-13-2009, 09:04 PM
the holes were 4 months behind us, big deal.

he likes the offense
he likes Roy
he bonded with the existing players

i am sure there are more, but those are what he mentioned in his interview

unc offense is more explosive than dukes right now.
im watching the uncg game, and im bored watching duke play half court offense.

speedevil2001
11-13-2009, 09:11 PM
We're all disappointed. Please keep it civil.

-jk

I hope Coach K is the most disapointed of all.

airowe
11-13-2009, 09:20 PM
What do u guys think was the key for harrison to choose unc?


The key was when Barnes starting getting projected as the number one pick in the draft next year.

Instead of concentrating on proven results that K had to offer in developing wings for the NBA, he chose to buy into a smooth recruiting pitch by Roy.

The staff did everything they could for this kid, he just didn't turn out to be the kid the staff thought or hoped he would be.

CDu
11-13-2009, 09:22 PM
The staff did everything they could for this kid, he just didn't turn out to be the kid the staff thought or hoped he would be.

I think that's an unfair statement about someone you likely know very little about. Barnes made the decision that he felt was best for him. No reason to think that's a comment about his character, which is what you seem to be implying.

Barnes could very well be EXACTLY the player the staff thought/hoped he'd be, but simply felt a better fit elsewhere.

NSDukeFan
11-13-2009, 09:22 PM
unc offense is more explosive than dukes right now.
im watching the uncg game, and im bored watching duke play half court offense.

Hope you weren't too bored. I kind of liked the nice inside-outside passing, ball movement, lots of touches for everyone, leading to 96 points.

BlueintheFace
11-13-2009, 09:24 PM
Looks like Barnes was pretty much committed for a long time (the night of K's in-home and before all the OVs), unless you think he just posed for a picture with UNC's head coach in his Carolina jersey as a favor...

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20091113/SPORTS/91113005/Harrison-Barnes-will-play-college-basketball-at-North-Carolina

Additionally, Shirley Barnes' quotes make it pretty clear that Duke had him all but locked up but he got away anyways...

...wow

CDu
11-13-2009, 09:24 PM
Hope you weren't too bored. I kind of liked the nice inside-outside passing, ball movement, lots of touches for everyone, leading to 96 points.

Agreed. I thought the halfcourt offense for us was a lot less boring than the halfcourt offense for UNC this season.

Of course, what's fun about UNC's offense is they get out and run.

Saratoga2
11-13-2009, 09:27 PM
He is a capable kid who is a great talent on the court. He would have fit in any of the programs he had narrowed it down to. I wish him well although am sorry what Duke had to offer was less attractive to him than what Roy and UNC presented.

Life goes on and the Duke program will remain strong. I would love to see us land one of these super talents in 2010 or 2011. We have missed on several over the last few years who could have done a great job for Duke and it is tough to miss here as well.

Let us hope there are alternatives out there.

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 09:32 PM
Looks like Barnes was pretty much committed for a long time (the night of K's in-home and before all the OVs), unless you think he just posed for a picture with UNC's head coach in his Carolina jersey as a favor...

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20091113/SPORTS/91113005/Harrison-Barnes-will-play-college-basketball-at-North-Carolina

Additionally, Shirley Barnes' quotes make it pretty clear that Duke had him all but locked up but he got away anyways...

...wow

Can't say I'm particularly impressed with his mother basically affixing goat horns to K.

Stay classy, Ms. Barnes. Your son did.

dukemsu

Kedsy
11-13-2009, 09:41 PM
It's very upsetting that K has missed out on so many top targets in a row: Patterson, Monroe, Boynton, Barnes and I'm sure I'm missing others.

What you're missing is a decent definition of "in a row." During the timeframe that the above named players decided to go elsewhere, we reeled in Kyle Singler, Jon Scheyer, Gerald Henderson, Mason Plumlee, Andre Dawkins, and Kyrie Irving. I'm sure I'm missing others.

airowe
11-13-2009, 09:43 PM
I think that's an unfair statement about someone you likely know very little about. Barnes made the decision that he felt was best for him. No reason to think that's a comment about his character, which is what you seem to be implying.

Barnes could very well be EXACTLY the player the staff thought/hoped he'd be, but simply felt a better fit elsewhere.

You may be right, but read the article BlueInTheFace posted and tell me the same thing. This guy jerked our fans and coaching staff around when he had committed to UNC the second K left his home in Ames.

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 09:47 PM
You may be right, but read the article BlueInTheFace posted and tell me the same thing. This guy jerked our fans and coaching staff around when he had committed to UNC the second K left his home in Ames.

I agree to a point. If he were the ultimate class kid (I'm sure he's plenty solid) he'd have ended the farce when he posed in the jersey. Smells like a Roy-orchestrated setup to me.

And clearly, he (and his mom) dug the attention. I don't really blame them, though. It's a once in a lifetime deal and I'm sure he was conscious of maximizing his "brand". Products of the era we're in. That thing this afternoon looked like something Jordan would have pulled, though I'm sure Jordan would have insulted the other five schools.

I would have loved to see HB in Duke Blue. But I don't agree that he handled this perfectly. Sorry.

dukemsu

NYDukie
11-13-2009, 09:49 PM
Looks like Barnes was pretty much committed for a long time (the night of K's in-home and before all the OVs), unless you think he just posed for a picture with UNC's head coach in his Carolina jersey as a favor...

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20091113/SPORTS/91113005/Harrison-Barnes-will-play-college-basketball-at-North-Carolina

Additionally, Shirley Barnes' quotes make it pretty clear that Duke had him all but locked up but he got away anyways...

...wow

Some points here....

Bad things happen in 3's. Nolan's suspension, MP2 breaking his wrist and HB breaking our hearts.

To deny UNC has past Duke as top dog is to put our head's in the sand. We have to look in the mirror and call it as it is. Is that to say Duke can't beat them, win the ACC or a national championship. No it doesn't, just means this team has to work a bit harder but the talent is and always will there.

Found a couple of comments from Barnes interesting following the announcement regarding and I'm paraphrasing here, how Roy kept at it, always calling him, seeing him that last visit etc. Take it for what it is worth but I have an opinion on the philosophical recruiting practices of both Roy and K here. And for the record, I feel they are both great recruiters. I get the feeling, and those in know can correct me based on fact, that Roy is the type of coach/recruiter who will call a recruit constantly within the rules, show up any time within the rules to show that you are wanted. Whereas, Coach K will call and show up at more scheduled time frames, and be explicit and passionate in his desire for said recruit and not chase the recruit. Roy is more cool, laid back in his approach while K more business like. In this day and age, and I'm not old by any stretch here at 34 but teens today want that "wanted" feeling and "it" factor more than 10 years ago. You see it all around, it's me me me me. Is it wrong? That's debatable but depending on a coach's philosophy, it can have a impact and I think it did here. I get the feeling if the staff or Coach K "catered" more to HB, maybe he would had signed for Duke today. Would I "cater" to a recruit, probably not so I can't blame Coach K if he didn't but it's just my worthless 2 cents!

brsett
11-13-2009, 09:51 PM
I agree to a point. If he were the ultimate class kid (I'm sure he's plenty solid) he'd have ended the farce when he posed in the jersey. Smells like a Roy-orchestrated setup to me.

And clearly, he (and his mom) dug the attention. I don't really blame them, though. It's a once in a lifetime deal and I'm sure he was conscious of maximizing his "brand". Products of the era we're in. That thing this afternoon looked like something Jordan would have pulled, though I'm sure Jordan would have insulted the other five schools.

I would have loved to see HB in Duke Blue. But I don't agree that he handled this perfectly. Sorry.

dukemsu

As apoplectic and angry as you are at UNC now, you're going to be absolutely suicidal when MSU gets beat by UNC.

Let it go. Its recruiting, not real life.

On the positive side, Duke will beat Wisconsin alot worse than UNC will beat Izzo.

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 09:53 PM
As apoplectic and angry as you are at UNC now, you're going to be absolutely suicidal when MSU gets beat by UNC.

Let it go. Its recruiting, not real life.

On the positive side, Duke will beat Wisconsin alot worse than UNC will beat Izzo.

We'll see about the results.

Either way, I'll be just fine. Appreciate your concern.

dukemsu

NYC Duke Fan
11-13-2009, 10:01 PM
What you're missing is a decent definition of "in a row." During the timeframe that the above named players decided to go elsewhere, we reeled in Kyle Singler, Jon Scheyer, Gerald Henderson, Mason Plumlee, Andre Dawkins, and Kyrie Irving. I'm sure I'm missing others.

You are absolutely correct he did, but for whatever reason and maybe it is just coincidental, Coach K did not succeed in recruiting the top or close to the top African-American front court player as cited previously, Monroe, Patterson and now Barnes. The last ones he recruited were S.Williams and Brand and that seems ages ago.

I do not know the reason why and as I said it maybe just coincidental, but they did not want to come to Duke or play for Coach K. He has great success with top white front court players though. If he can get Roscoe Smith, then maybe this will change.

devildownunder
11-13-2009, 10:02 PM
This is as humiliating an off-the-court loss as the program could suffer. There is no way to sugarcoat that. Duke made Barnes its top priority, went after him for months and months, unc comes in at the tail end and takes him, just like that. Who knows what went on behind the scenes but on the face of it, this could not look any worse for K.

But that's off the court. Barnes hasn't done anything ON the court yet. We know we have some good players and more good ones coming. Let's wait and see how Barnes performs and how Duke and unc perform relative to each other before we declare this an on-the-court butt-whipping as well. Every ace recruit doesn't develop into a superstar, or even a good player.

devildownunder
11-13-2009, 10:04 PM
You are absolutely correct he did, but for whatever reason and maybe it is just coincidental, Coach K did not succeed in recruiting the top or close to the top African-American front court player as cited previously, Monroe, Patterson and now Barnes. The last ones he recruited were S.Williams and Brand and that seems ages ago.

I do not know the reason why and as I said it maybe just coincidental, but they did not want to come to Duke or play for Coach K. He has great success with top white front court players though.

from all the scuttlebutt we've been hearing, it seems a bit unfair to say that Barnes did not want to come to Duke. It sounds like he just wanted to go to unc more, at the end anyway.

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 10:04 PM
You are absolutely correct he did, but for whatever reason and maybe it is just coincidental, Coach K did not succeed in recruiting the top or close to the top African-American front court player as cited previously, Monroe, Patterson and now Barnes. The last ones he recruited were S.Williams and Brand and that seems ages ago.

I do not know the reason why and as I said it maybe just coincidental, but they did not want to come to Duke or play for Coach K. He has great success with top white front court players though.

What were G and Kyrie "ranked"? I'm not being sarcastic. I don't know. But I recall them being recruited by plenty of people besides K.

dukemsu

jv001
11-13-2009, 10:18 PM
Hey guys don't give up. harrison has not played one game for unc. We don't know how he will play. Kyle Singler is one of the best players in college. Maybe the best one. I would take him next year over harrison any day. Plus we have the better bench coach. If roy wasn't winning right now, he would not have the success in recruiting that he does. We can begin to turn it around with a good year. One that get's deep into the NCAA tournament and beats unc 2 or 3 times. Next play. Go Duke!

Duke79UNLV77
11-13-2009, 10:20 PM
“I’d say North Carolina didn’t start at the top of our list,” said Shirley Barnes, Harrison’s mother. “But coach Williams was very consistent. We were probably looking in a different direction. But he kept plugging away at it. He was always a step ahead of everyone else.”

He's been our unquestioned top priority for a year and a half, we've got 2 of his best friends, and we apparently got out-worked.

One of the great things about K is what an amazing impact he's had on so many areas beyond basketball.

On the other hand, what seems to make Ole Roy so dangerous is that he's almost completely about just UNC basketball.

I'd much rather have K representing my school, and I don't think he'd still be coaching if he weren't free to be such a renaissance man, but I'm afraid we're in the middle of a decade of UNC dominance over us.

Vincetaylor
11-13-2009, 10:22 PM
Barnes visted Chapel Hill on a beautiful North Carolina weekend when Michael Jordan and others were there to court and entertain him. He visited Durham on one of the crappiest weekends of the year when we were playing NCCU in football. Which visit do you think went better? I think it's safe to say his visit to UNC blew his visit to Duke out of the water. Coach K beat out UNC in recruiting when Dean was winding down and when Gut and Dough were around. Beating Roy is an entirely different story. UNC has always had the edge on Duke in terms of the schools. K used to have a big enough advantage over the coaches at UNC to convince players to come to Duke. He might still have a slight edge on Roy, but UNC's superiority over Duke in the eyes of these high school kids trumps that edge.

Azdukefan
11-13-2009, 10:43 PM
It has taken me all day to respond because I initially couldn't even speak (I almost threw up when I heard him say Coach Roy Williams). Coach Kapproached the situation as well as any coach in America could. He was in early and often. The reality of the situation is that UNC came in after Barnes tore it up for team USA and the lure of playing for the same institution that MJ played for was too much. To be quite honest, I feel the worst for K as he did everything right except for not have Jordan on his collegiate team(s) (he played for K on the Dream Team). Things in life sometimes are unfair but to be blatently honest, this thing wreaks of lack of loyalty. I'll bet K takes very few recruitments to heart, but this one had to hurt as bad as any. Enough of my soap box........either you're with us or against us and its obvious where HB drew his line in the sand. Bring it!!!!!!!

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 10:50 PM
It has taken me all day to respond because I initially couldn't even speak (I almost threw up when I heard him say Coach Roy Williams). Coach Kapproached the situation as well as any coach in America could. He was in early and often. The reality of the situation is that UNC came in after Barnes tore it up for team USA and the lure of playing for the same institution that MJ played for was too much. To be quite honest, I feel the worst for K as he did everything right except for not have Jordan on his collegiate team(s) (he played for K on the Dream Team). Things in life sometimes are unfair but to be blatently honest, this thing wreaks of lack of loyalty. I'll bet K takes very few recruitments to heart, but this one had to hurt as bad as any. Enough of my soap box........either you're with us or against us and its obvious where HB drew his line in the sand. Bring it!!!!!!!

I'm sure K feels bad, but I'm also guessing he's known what was up for awhile. He's far too bright and experienced to be blindsided by a recruit.

If the thing was over when Roy visited Iowa, K probably had an idea. That's probably why he's been focusing on Smith.

I am sure K feels somewhat humiliated by the way this thing is going to play out in the press (K lost him, Roy owns K, etc). The press will love this. But K is who he is for a reason. I'm sure he's well into Next Play, and probably has been for weeks.

dukemsu

IBleedBlue
11-13-2009, 11:05 PM
Guys
Before I put my actual thought down here, I want to say- I am not asking for Coach K to leave.
Having cleared that out of the way, I do feel that Duke's aura is drowning and our coach has repeatedly failed to reel in top (the difference makers) recruits. I believe the most important feeling is the student athletes ability to sync up with the head coach. The gap between K and current high school athletes is way too much (again not age gap; just the psychological gap).
So, whenever it is time, I think we should bring Coach Capel instead of Coach Dawkins as head coach. Because, lately, I am seeing many high school kids saying Coach Capel is really cool and down to earth and they are able to relate to him much easily.
Again, it's a personal thought and don't bury me for it.
Duke blood runs in my veins.

Duvall
11-13-2009, 11:10 PM
So, whenever it is time, I think we should bring Coach Capel instead of Coach Dawkins as head coach.

The upside of the prospect of the world ending in 2012 is that none of us will live to see this argument come to dominate this board. Otherwise, we're pretty much doomed.

AlaskanAssassin
11-13-2009, 11:12 PM
Barnes visted Chapel Hill on a beautiful North Carolina weekend when Michael Jordan and others were there to court and entertain him. He visited Durham on one of the crappiest weekends of the year when we were playing NCCU in football. Which visit do you think went better? I think it's safe to say his visit to UNC blew his visit to Duke out of the water. Coach K beat out UNC in recruiting when Dean was winding down and when Gut and Dough were around. Beating Roy is an entirely different story. UNC has always had the edge on Duke in terms of the schools. K used to have a big enough advantage over the coaches at UNC to convince players to come to Duke. He might still have a slight edge on Roy, but UNC's superiority over Duke in the eyes of these high school kids trumps that edge.

I believe youre mistaken for HB's trip with KI's.

Azdukefan
11-13-2009, 11:13 PM
So, whenever it is time, I think we should bring Coach Capel instead of Coach Dawkins as head coach.

I had better first preface this by saying that I really feel like HB played us (keeps the thread on topic). To address your thought that Capel should be our next head coach......I couldn't agree more. I just hope he has to wait at least another ten years before he gets that chance. K WILL get one, maybe two more rings (NC's) and then walk away. I believe Coach will learn from this experience and has already begun casting a large net for recruits.

Btw..........how much fun are the crazies going to have razzing HB when he comes to Cameron next year?

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 11:14 PM
Guys
Before I put my actual thought down here, I want to say- I am not asking for Coach K to leave.
Having cleared that out of the way, I do feel that Duke's aura is drowning and our coach has repeatedly failed to reel in top (the difference makers) recruits. I believe the most important feeling is the student athletes ability to sync up with the head coach. The gap between K and current high school athletes is way too much (again not age gap; just the psychological gap).
So, whenever it is time, I think we should bring Coach Capel instead of Coach Dawkins as head coach. Because, lately, I am seeing many high school kids saying Coach Capel is really cool and down to earth and they are able to relate to him much easily.
Again, it's a personal thought and don't bury me for it.
Duke blood runs in my veins.

There are at least 10 arguments for why Duke hasn't landed Patterson, Barnes, Wall, Monroe, etc. And a new one seems to come up each time.

1. K is out of touch/Bob Knight in-training
2. Roy (or JTIII, or Cal, or Gillespie) is more kid-friendly
3. It's Wojo's fault since he was a guard
4. K is gone too much/Olympic stuff
5. K doesn't make enough contact (that'll be the Barnes theory, thanks to his mother's remarks)

And those are just the ones that are message-board friendly.

Personally, I buy none of these. I think each case needs to be evaluated on an individual basis.

What I do know is this: Duke landed Kyrie, and most everyone wanted him. Going back a few years, Duke landed G and Kyle and Deng and JJ and Shel, all of whom were highly recruited. As disappointed as I am by today, well, Duke is still getting players. Duke just needs to land one of the mega-players and most of this will go away. I think K can still do it.

Not burying you, just giving my opinion.

dukemsu

RelativeWays
11-13-2009, 11:18 PM
he should be booed mercilessly from introduction to any time he touches the ball, with copious amounts of "you suck" chants thrown in for good measure. I'm serious. his 1st game at CIS should be so loud with heckling scorn and animosity that he cannot think straight. who cares about being cute and clever. I'd rather he know without a doubt that he is reviled.

ChicagoCrazy84
11-13-2009, 11:31 PM
There are at least 10 arguments for why Duke hasn't landed Patterson, Barnes, Wall, Monroe, etc. And a new one seems to come up each time.

1. K is out of touch/Bob Knight in-training
2. Roy (or JTIII, or Cal, or Gillespie) is more kid-friendly
3. It's Wojo's fault since he was a guard
4. K is gone too much/Olympic stuff
5. K doesn't make enough contact (that'll be the Barnes theory, thanks to his mother's remarks)

And those are just the ones that are message-board friendly.

Personally, I buy none of these. I think each case needs to be evaluated on an individual basis.

What I do know is this: Duke landed Kyrie, and most everyone wanted him. Going back a few years, Duke landed G and Kyle and Deng and JJ and Shel, all of whom were highly recruited. As disappointed as I am by today, well, Duke is still getting players. Duke just needs to land one of the mega-players and most of this will go away. I think K can still do it.

Not burying you, just giving my opinion.

dukemsu


It's hard sometimes to remember that we still do get good players when something like this happens. My high school coach once told me before our first big game of the season my senior year that "you don't need to be one of the best to make a big difference." I think that kind of applies here because we know we're going to be good, the question is, can we be UNC good or as good? I think we can because we have good players and we've gotten good players like you said, we just need one of them to be the big difference. Maybe Kelly will prove to be the big difference or even Hairston. Like a couple guys said before in this thread, we don't know what next year will bring. HB has the accolades and all, but we won't know for sure until he gets on the hardwood. We'll see what happens, but KI, Hairston, and Ty Thornton have potential to be the big difference maker and I have faith that someone will step it up.

calvindog
11-13-2009, 11:35 PM
What you're missing is a decent definition of "in a row." During the timeframe that the above named players decided to go elsewhere, we reeled in Kyle Singler, Jon Scheyer, Gerald Henderson, Mason Plumlee, Andre Dawkins, and Kyrie Irving. I'm sure I'm missing others.

Yes, we pulled in some really good players. Just not our top target each year. Which is why we are good but not great over this multi-year period. Which is why Duke has not been to a FF in a while. Pretty simple explanation: less talent.

ice-9
11-13-2009, 11:39 PM
he should be booed mercilessly from introduction to any time he touches the ball, with copious amounts of "you suck" chants thrown in for good measure. I'm serious. his 1st game at CIS should be so loud with heckling scorn and animosity that he cannot think straight. who cares about being cute and clever. I'd rather he know without a doubt that he is reviled.

You want the Crazies to be more like the Terps?

No thanks.

Poincaré
11-13-2009, 11:40 PM
Eh, not THAT well thought out. If Carlos Boozer and Elton Brand and Luol Deng aren't NBA superstars, who is? Kobe? No school produced him. Lebron? No school produced him. What school IS producing NBA superstars then?

I cannot agree that Boozer, Brand, and Deng are SUPERstars. They're stars, but they're second bananas or the best players on a bad team. Let me just be clear. I am not saying that other schools have NBA superstars right now. However, a lot of them have a history of NBA superstars to throw at recruits. UNC certainly does. Nothing would help Duke more than producing an NBA superstar to sell to top 5 recruits right now. Well, repealing the one-and-done rule may help more...

VaDukie
11-13-2009, 11:42 PM
From here on I think I'm just going to stop following recruiting before we get a verbal or a guy signs his LOI. It's just too much following everything this closely and then ending up with this.

Here's to Kyrie, Seth, Josh, and Tyler suiting up next year and beating up the Heels next year.

Board Censorship ftw

Poincaré
11-13-2009, 11:42 PM
You want the Crazies to be more like the Terps? No thanks.

Just being crude and angry at Barnes would be weird. I suggest we try "Go to hell Harrison, go to hell". At least there's tradition behind that.

Bob Green
11-13-2009, 11:44 PM
Barnes visted Chapel Hill on a beautiful North Carolina weekend when Michael Jordan and others were there to court and entertain him. He visited Durham on one of the crappiest weekends of the year when we were playing NCCU in football.

I realize I'm splitting hairs here but Harrison Barnes visited Duke on the weekend we played Maryland in football and Pfeiffer in an exhibition basketball game. I spent all day at Duke that Saturday and yes the weather was lousy but everyone was having a great time at the football game and the basketball game.

dukemsu
11-13-2009, 11:45 PM
I cannot agree that Boozer, Brand, and Deng are SUPERstars. They're stars, but they're second bananas or the best players on a bad team. Let me just be clear. I am not saying that other schools have NBA superstars right now. However, a lot of them have a history of NBA superstars to throw at recruits. UNC certainly does. Nothing would help Duke more than producing an NBA superstar to sell to top 5 recruits right now. Well, repealing the one-and-done rule may help more...

Superstars? Carolina has one since 82. Jordan.

Don't sell me Vince Carter. He was a dunk contest hype. Sheed? No better than Boozer, except on D. Where are the other UNC "Super" stars? Stackhouse? Nope. Marvin Williams? Sorry. Cookie Monster? Please. James Worthy's a hall of famer, but I doubt most recruits even know who he is.

Carolina had the biggest star ever. Oddly enough, most current recruits never saw him in his prime, except when they were 7.

dukemsu

VaDukie
11-13-2009, 11:47 PM
I cannot agree that Boozer, Brand, and Deng are SUPERstars. They're stars, but they're second bananas or the best players on a bad team. Let me just be clear. I am not saying that other schools have NBA superstars right now. However, a lot of them have a history of NBA superstars to throw at recruits. UNC certainly does. Nothing would help Duke more than producing an NBA superstar to sell to top 5 recruits right now. Well, repealing the one-and-done rule may help more...

Grant Hill was a better NBA player than anyone UNC has produced since Jordan, but recruits now were pre-pubescent when he was in his prime.

ChicagoCrazy84
11-13-2009, 11:50 PM
I cannot agree that Boozer, Brand, and Deng are SUPERstars. They're stars, but they're second bananas or the best players on a bad team. Let me just be clear. I am not saying that other schools have NBA superstars right now. However, a lot of them have a history of NBA superstars to throw at recruits. UNC certainly does. Nothing would help Duke more than producing an NBA superstar to sell to top 5 recruits right now. Well, repealing the one-and-done rule may help more...


I think G could be, I just think he was drafted into a bad situation in Charlotte. Larry Brown is one of the worst player's coaches in the league and is a journeyman coach. I think if he gets settled into a could team with good potential and a GOOD coach, he could do really really well. I could see Washington, OKC (6th man), or Miami or something. Im off point, but most current superstars in the NBA were not born in college. Even if they were, why isn't Santa Clara doing better (Steve Nash) or Marquette a top program(Dwyane Wade)?

calvindog
11-13-2009, 11:57 PM
I cannot agree that Boozer, Brand, and Deng are SUPERstars. They're stars, but they're second bananas or the best players on a bad team. Let me just be clear. I am not saying that other schools have NBA superstars right now. However, a lot of them have a history of NBA superstars to throw at recruits. UNC certainly does. Nothing would help Duke more than producing an NBA superstar to sell to top 5 recruits right now. Well, repealing the one-and-done rule may help more...

Brand and Boozer have been all-stars and Brand was a superstar before getting injured. How many NBA players are 20 and 10 for their career? How many in the history of the NBA? And Boozer is still one of the top PFs in the league. They're just not flashy dunkers like MJ and Carter.

Kedsy
11-14-2009, 12:01 AM
Yes, we pulled in some really good players. Just not our top target each year. Which is why we are good but not great over this multi-year period. Which is why Duke has not been to a FF in a while. Pretty simple explanation: less talent.

Well, I never saw the list of our targets to see who was on top, but my guess is Kyle, G, Mason, and Kyrie could all be called our top target for their year.

Frankly, I'm not sure HB was our "top" target. It seems clear to me that Kyrie (the #4 ranked player of the class who plays a position we desperately need) was, or at least should have been, a more important target than Barnes (the #1 ranked player who plays a position at which we have other excellent options).

And do you really think the teams that go to the Final Four all have the most talent? Because history (both past and recent) suggests otherwise.


You are absolutely correct he did, but for whatever reason and maybe it is just coincidental, Coach K did not succeed in recruiting the top or close to the top African-American front court player as cited previously, Monroe, Patterson and now Barnes. The last ones he recruited were S.Williams and Brand and that seems ages ago.

I do not know the reason why and as I said it maybe just coincidental, but they did not want to come to Duke or play for Coach K. He has great success with top white front court players though. If he can get Roscoe Smith, then maybe this will change.

Why would African-American backcourt players like it here but not frontcourt players? How can that be a racial thing? And, by the way, Shelden was a senior in 2006 and Patterson was a freshman in 2007, so your "ages" are pretty short. Also, Josh Hairston is ranked higher than Roscoe Smith, is African-American, and has already signed his letter of intent, so if I did think there was anything to your theory, I don't know how Roscoe Smith changes anything.


What were G and Kyrie "ranked"? I'm not being sarcastic. I don't know. But I recall them being recruited by plenty of people besides K.


Kyrie is ranked #4 by the RSCI. G was #10. However, neither of them are frontcourt players, which is what the previous poster was attempting to theorize about.


Guys
Before I put my actual thought down here, I want to say- I am not asking for Coach K to leave.
Having cleared that out of the way, I do feel that Duke's aura is drowning and our coach has repeatedly failed to reel in top (the difference makers) recruits. I believe the most important feeling is the student athletes ability to sync up with the head coach. The gap between K and current high school athletes is way too much (again not age gap; just the psychological gap).
So, whenever it is time, I think we should bring Coach Capel instead of Coach Dawkins as head coach. Because, lately, I am seeing many high school kids saying Coach Capel is really cool and down to earth and they are able to relate to him much easily.
Again, it's a personal thought and don't bury me for it.
Duke blood runs in my veins.

Oh, please. I don't want to know how an aura can drown, but I do think it's important in your sixth post to clarify that you don't want Coach K to step down. Oh, by the way, Kyrie Irving is a difference-making recruit.




(ok, I admit I am getting a little cranky; I probably should sign off for awhile)

Poincaré
11-14-2009, 12:15 AM
Superstars? Carolina has one since 82. Jordan.

Don't sell me Vince Carter. He was a dunk contest hype. Sheed? No better than Boozer, except on D. Where are the other UNC "Super" stars? Stackhouse? Nope. Marvin Williams? Sorry. Cookie Monster? Please. James Worthy's a hall of famer, but I doubt most recruits even know who he is.

Carolina had the biggest star ever. Oddly enough, most current recruits never saw him in his prime, except when they were 7.

dukemsu

Upon more careful consideration, I think you're right. However, having Jordan makes it easier to sell those others as well. ESPN's lazy-eyed anchors selling UNC players doesn't help either. I really hate it when I think that it comes down to Jordan, because I think that he's a horrible human being who's been given a free pass by the press. Seriously, given how bad a person he's become, he should be a negative to their program in a more reasonable world....

Poincaré
11-14-2009, 12:18 AM
Brand and Boozer have been all-stars and Brand was a superstar before getting injured. How many NBA players are 20 and 10 for their career? How many in the history of the NBA? And Boozer is still one of the top PFs in the league. They're just not flashy dunkers like MJ and Carter.

You're right about Boozer and Brand being fantastic players, but let's face it, a lot of being a superstar is about perception and marketing. Carter (and MJ obviously) have them beat on that front by a mile.

Devilsfan
11-14-2009, 12:21 AM
How do you recruit someone for two years and have someone come in for the last four months and take that recruit?

Duvall
11-14-2009, 12:24 AM
How do you recruit someone for two years and have someone come in for the last four months and take that recruit?

To get to the other side?

In retrospect, we probably shouldn't have let them win the championship last year.

ChicagoCrazy84
11-14-2009, 12:25 AM
Also, Josh Hairston is ranked higher than Roscoe Smith, is African-American, and has already signed his letter of intent, so if I did think there was anything to your theory, I don't know how Roscoe Smith changes anything.


No he's not, Roscoe is rated higher. But I agree on everything else you said. Race has nothing to do with it.

dukemsu
11-14-2009, 12:25 AM
Upon more careful consideration, I think you're right. However, having Jordan makes it easier to sell those others as well. ESPN's lazy-eyed anchors selling UNC players doesn't help either. I really hate it when I think that it comes down to Jordan, because I think that he's a horrible human being who's been given a free pass by the press. Seriously, given how bad a person he's become, he should be a negative to their program in a more reasonable world....

Jordan's old nice, family guy bit was exposed as a fraud years ago, but people don't care. That hall of fame speech this year should have earned him a place in the Barry Bonds Arrogance Hall of Fame, but ESPN blabbered on and on about how great it was.

People love the guy. Although they've tired of him a bit here in Chicago, where they knew his bit years ago.

dukemsu

Poincaré
11-14-2009, 12:28 AM
I think G could be, I just think he was drafted into a bad situation in Charlotte. Larry Brown is one of the worst player's coaches in the league and is a journeyman coach. I think if he gets settled into a could team with good potential and a GOOD coach, he could do really really well. I could see Washington, OKC (6th man), or Miami or something. Im off point, but most current superstars in the NBA were not born in college. Even if they were, why isn't Santa Clara doing better (Steve Nash) or Marquette a top program(Dwyane Wade)?

I wouldn't say that having a superstar is a panacea. Harrison Barnes wouldn't really consider Santa Clara (or even Marquette, now that Tom Creen is gone). However, when a person is comparing several great programs, small differences may be magnified.

juise
11-14-2009, 12:41 AM
No he's not, Roscoe is rated higher. But I agree on everything else you said. Race has nothing to do with it.

It depends on who you ask. The consensus index (http://rscihoops.com/) has Josh one slot higher. I would say they're pretty evenly regarded.



Well, I never saw the list of our targets to see who was on top, but my guess is Kyle, G, Mason, and Kyrie could all be called our top target for their year.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but I would argue that Kenny Boynton was Duke's "top target" in the 2009 class. Obviously, Duke ended up with Kelly and Plumlee (Dawkins was supposed to be 2010).

Kedsy
11-14-2009, 12:52 AM
No he's not, Roscoe is rated higher. But I agree on everything else you said. Race has nothing to do with it.

Well, according to RSCI, which is a compilation of seven major recruiting rankings and therefore less prone to bias, Hairston is #27 while R Smith is #28. I think it's fair to say they're essentially equivalent as recruits go.

VaDukie
11-14-2009, 12:55 AM
How do you recruit someone for two years and have someone come in for the last four months and take that recruit?

Not to harp too much on details, but 7 (SEVEN) months ago Roy called Barnes the morning after the National Championship game. He put as much into this recruitment as we did, and I don't think K had a call that symbolically powerful in his arsenal.

Kedsy
11-14-2009, 12:57 AM
I don't disagree with your overall point, but I would argue that Kenny Boynton was Duke's "top target" in the 2009 class. Obviously, Duke ended up with Kelly and Plumlee (Dawkins was supposed to be 2010).

You may be right about Boynton. Although we had a perceived need for a big man as much as a point guard. Maybe Boynton and Mason could be considered "co-top" targets?

Frankly, I'd be surprised if the staff identifies a single top target every year. I assume they identify several players they really want and go after them without ranking them, unless they play the same position.

soccerstud2210
11-14-2009, 01:19 AM
did he seriously commit to unc before he came out to his OV at duke? did i read that article right?

dont get me wrong i stopped liking him the minute he said coach roy williams, but sheesh, downright dirty. how many other recruits have led us on like this?

Wildling
11-14-2009, 01:42 AM
did he seriously commit to unc before he came out to his OV at duke? did i read that article right?

dont get me wrong i stopped liking him the minute he said coach roy williams, but sheesh, downright dirty. how many other recruits have led us on like this?

Agreed, that is the way I read it too. I lost a lot of respect for that kid if in fact, this is the way it went down.

JaMarcus Russell
11-14-2009, 02:06 AM
I'm sorry if I am missing something obvious, but what article are you guys referring to?

Kfan4Life
11-14-2009, 02:08 AM
Everything with him seemed kind of staged and phony. He will fit right in with Ol Roy. I never realized that recruits valued someone kissing their behind so much. It would be nice to land Smith in case Singler leaves for the Pros. I'm just glad the season has started. Lots to look forward to.

Vincetaylor
11-14-2009, 02:12 AM
I will say this again in clearer terms...the problem isn't Coach K, it is Duke University(the school, the students, etc.) Has Duke overcome the whole lax episode? Maybe so, maybe not. It sure does seem like we've stopped getting our top targets since the "incident". Duke isn't the same as it was when I graduated in 1998. They have focused more and more on getting kids with rich parents and it's created a totally different atmosphere on campus. Do you think a high school kid like Barnes would feel more comfortable around a bunch of spoiled rich kids or a bunch of public school kids? The answer is obvious. Coach K does wonders with the cards he is dealt.

JaMarcus Russell
11-14-2009, 02:24 AM
They have focused more and more on getting kids with rich parents and it's created a totally different atmosphere on campus.

Do you have any kind of facts to back that up? I have a very hard time believing any of this, especially with the financial aid drives in 2005-06.

duke09hms
11-14-2009, 03:02 AM
I will say this again in clearer terms...the problem isn't Coach K, it is Duke University(the school, the students, etc.) Has Duke overcome the whole lax episode? Maybe so, maybe not. It sure does seem like we've stopped getting our top targets since the "incident". Duke isn't the same as it was when I graduated in 1998. They have focused more and more on getting kids with rich parents and it's created a totally different atmosphere on campus. Do you think a high school kid like Barnes would feel more comfortable around a bunch of spoiled rich kids or a bunch of public school kids? The answer is obvious. Coach K does wonders with the cards he is dealt.

The connection between the lax incident and financial background of our students is nonexistent. I can think of many other plausible reasons (exhaustively discussed on this board) for our "relative" recruiting failures the last couple years.

And regarding "focused on getting rich kids" - definitely not the case. Duke has always had need-blind admissions, and with the new financial aid package in 2007 offering at least full tuition+living expenses scholarships to families making under 60k/year with no loans, there are less and less rich kids on campus. The % of incoming freshmen applying for financial aid increases every year. This Dukie graduated in May having paid less than 5k total for my 4 year education - all covered by Duke need-based scholarships. No athletic or merit scholarships, all financial need-based.

Vast majority of Duke students are from public schools, over 70%. Gees, it really annoys me when people tap into false convenient pre-existing notions as legit explanations.

The fact is, and as hard as it may be to admit it, K is getting outrecruited by Roy. From Mrs. Barnes' comments, it seems like Roy just outworks the field. Hopefully this last recruiting miss really ignites the fire under K.

juise
11-14-2009, 03:22 AM
did he seriously commit to unc before he came out to his OV at duke? did i read that article right?

dont get me wrong i stopped liking him the minute he said coach roy williams, but sheesh, downright dirty. how many other recruits have led us on like this?

Everything with him seemed kind of staged and phony. He will fit right in with Ol Roy.

We're all very disappointed about Harrison's choice, but let's not let the sour grapes get toxic. I would not say that Kyrie's anouncement was that much different from Harrison. In regard to Kyrie, most of this board said, "Let him have his moment. Let him enjoy his time in the spotlight." By all accounts, Kyrie had made his decision before he made a few more visits. Many posters said that Kyrie was doing those schools a favor by taking the visit. Would Harrison have shamed Duke by committing to UNC before taking his Duke official visit? Instead, he wrote glowing things about Duke's players, coaches, and campus.



I will say this again in clearer terms...the problem isn't Coach K, it is Duke University(the school, the students, etc.) Has Duke overcome the whole lax episode? Maybe so, maybe not. It sure does seem like we've stopped getting our top targets since the "incident". Duke isn't the same as it was when I graduated in 1998. They have focused more and more on getting kids with rich parents and it's created a totally different atmosphere on campus. Do you think a high school kid like Barnes would feel more comfortable around a bunch of spoiled rich kids or a bunch of public school kids? The answer is obvious. Coach K does wonders with the cards he is dealt.

Vince, I am guessing that your intentions are good here, but this is exactly the kind of post that anti-Duke fans would come here hoping to see.

I graduated in 2004, but I can't imagine that this is a reasonable assessment. Are you on campus right now or were you there prior to 2006? It seems that you were very careful to leave ethnicity out of your argument and focus on economics. But I think that when people read "spoiled rick kids," they generally think "white." It seems that you're suggesting that Duke, post-scandal, can only attract... well, white kids.

Let's look at Duke's last #1ish recruiting class. It has to be the 2005 class, which was before the "incident." So that part of your argument almost holds up, but... the 2 biggest contributors to that ranking were McRoberts (#1 overall) and Paulus (#3 point guard). Paulus went to a private school and McRoberts went to a public school in a very affluent community. So... let's not say that the trend started because of the "incident."

However, I do believe that Duke recruiting has been different since 2006. Personally, I think the NBA's "one and done" rule changed the recruiting landscape immensely. I am running out of steam in this post and don't have time to go into my theory on this, but I would just beg you and other posters not to perpetuate stereotypes about Duke. If you have data to back up such harsh accusations, then perhaps that should be shared. But let's not allow are disappointment to perpetuate ideas that are hurtful to the University and to the program we love.

NYC Duke Fan
11-14-2009, 04:37 AM
Well, I never saw the list of our targets to see who was on top, but my guess is Kyle, G, Mason, and Kyrie could all be called our top target for their year.

Frankly, I'm not sure HB was our "top" target. It seems clear to me that Kyrie (the #4 ranked player of the class who plays a position we desperately need) was, or at least should have been, a more important target than Barnes (the #1 ranked player who plays a position at which we have other excellent options).

And do you really think the teams that go to the Final Four all have the most talent? Because history (both past and recent) suggests otherwise.



Why would African-American backcourt players like it here but not frontcourt players? How can that be a racial thing? And, by the way, Shelden was a senior in 2006 and Patterson was a freshman in 2007, so your "ages" are pretty short. Also, Josh Hairston is ranked higher than Roscoe Smith, is African-American, and has already signed his letter of intent, so if I did think there was anything to your theory, I don't know how Roscoe Smith changes anything.



Kyrie is ranked #4 by the RSCI. G was #10. However, neither of them are frontcourt players, which is what the previous poster was attempting to theorize about.



Oh, please. I don't want to know how an aura can drown, but I do think it's important in your sixth post to clarify that you don't want Coach K to step down. Oh, by the way, Kyrie Irving is a difference-making recruit.




(ok, I admit I am getting a little cranky; I probably should sign off for awhile)

I did not know that Hairston is rated higher than Smith, thanks for the info. That said, Coach K, presently still has trouble recruited the top or near top ranked African-American front court player.

I could be totally mistaken here, but wasn't Johnny Dawkins influential in recruiting Brand and S. Williams?

VaDukie
11-14-2009, 07:22 AM
I did not know that Hairston is rated higher than Smith, thanks for the info. That said, Coach K, presently still has trouble recruited the top or near top ranked African-American front court player.

I could be totally mistaken here, but wasn't Johnny Dawkins influential in recruiting Brand and S. Williams?

Dawkins didn't even become an assistant until 1998. He may have played a role while he was serving as an administrative assistant (similar role to Carawell's now), but I don't know how significant of a factor he was with Brand. As far as Shelden, it was my understanding (and I could be the one mistaken here) that JD didn't take a very active role recruiting in recent years because he didn't like traveling and spending that much time away from his family. The only recruits he played a vital role with were Henderson and Smith because he played with their fathers.

I feel like it's almost pointless to ask, but I really wish that one day this board (and others) could stop seeing every recruit from a racial angle.

tmatt13
11-14-2009, 07:28 AM
Best post I read about the pain is that we can hand the mantle of the Yankees of college basketball to Carolina. So I say let them face the backlash. Ol' Roy and his homespun ways. Hansborough not getting a significant foul called against him in four years - and Carolina getting all the calls. Let Doyel turn his focus to them. Not a single player getting in academic trouble in the 20 years since I graduated, while Duke guys are called out for majoring in sociology. And most notably, the fact that Ol' Roy has coached two of the top 5 premier programs and has had exactly one of his players in 21 years make any kind of impact in the NBA - Paul Pierce.

I feel better already.

roywhite
11-14-2009, 07:48 AM
Well, sure enough, the sun did come up this morning.

Just a few thoughts:

No second guessing of the efforts of Coach K and the staff; they were involved early and did their best to land HB.

I didn't care much for that contrived show that HB put on yesterday, and also the idea that he's been a silent commit for UNC for some time, and didn't tell other coaches. I don't think I'll have difficulty rooting against him as a Tar Heel.

Examples abound of very highly rated recruits who don't quite pan out. And if HB is a star right off the bat, chances grow that he'll be a one year college player. Is Brandan Wright a name we associate as being a major factor in ACC basketball?

On to the next play, which may include a chance at Roscoe Smith in the 2010 class or some very good small forward types in 2011.

Go, Duke.

calvindog
11-14-2009, 08:06 AM
Well, I never saw the list of our targets to see who was on top, but my guess is Kyle, G, Mason, and Kyrie could all be called our top target for their year.

Frankly, I'm not sure HB was our "top" target. It seems clear to me that Kyrie (the #4 ranked player of the class who plays a position we desperately need) was, or at least should have been, a more important target than Barnes (the #1 ranked player who plays a position at which we have other excellent options).


Your guess would be wrong. As I listed, we whiffed on our top targets for those years i.e., Boynton, Barnes, Monroe, Patterson.

Buckeye Devil
11-14-2009, 08:12 AM
Landscapes change in college athletics. Notre Dame used to be the place to go for top college football players. That clearly has changed. It has something to do with winning and winning big. Notre Dame has only won one bowl game (an inconsequential one at that) in the past 15 years or so. When was the last time they beat USC? They lost to Navy again at home and are staring at a 4 or 5 loss season unless there is some sort of divine intervention. It also has something to do with the type of athlete that ND can recruit being a prestigious Catholic university as well as the type of player that would want to go there given its stature, location, etc. Plus, college athletes have changed in character and quality. They do not look at tradition and history but rather the most recent success, of which ND has zilch. ND has also done a pretty lousy job at head coach selections but may right the ship if they get Kelly from Cincinnati next year. Of course there are other factors. Will ND ever regain its position as the king of college football? I don't think so.

I am not drawing exact comparisons to Duke as Duke has been more successful in basketball in the past 10 years or so than ND has been in football in the past 15 years, but I think there are some parallels. Let's face it. Since the 2001 national title, Duke has only been to 1 Final 4 where they lost to the eventual national champs. They have not been close to being a Final 4 team let alone a national champ calibre team in the past 5 years. Yes, there have been ACC titles and good years, but that pales in comparison to Final 4's and NC's. Duke has not won big in the past 8 years and most kids Duke is trying to recruit today were 8 or 9 in 2001. The titles and Final 4's by UNC are fresh and vivid in their minds. Calipari's recent successes, thug that he is, are flashy and relevant. 2001 is not a long time ago to me, but it is an eternity for a 17 year old. Duke the University also carries with it a certain prestige and image that some modern prospects just won't want. And while I did not go to Duke, I know that it is much more rigorous and demanding academically than virtually every other school that it will compete against in recruiting. It takes more of a quality kid to go to Duke than it does to go to another lesser school. I suppose that makes the Barnes choice all the more painful as he at least seemed different.

With that said, realistically Duke is still a top program, but it is no longer "the program." UNC has clearly taken over that role in the past 5 years as much as I hate to say it. Thank goodness Duke is not falling and will not fall to the depths that Notre Dame football has in recent memory. But I think that it will take a string of a couple Final 4's and/or a national championship for Duke to return to the platform of the upper echelon programs. Something needs to happen and fairly soon or else Duke will continue to lose out on the most coveted players. And in college basketball, those are the players that often get you to the next level.

jipops
11-14-2009, 08:14 AM
Well, sure enough, the sun did come up this morning.

Just a few thoughts:

No second guessing of the efforts of Coach K and the staff; they were involved early and did their best to land HB.

I didn't care much for that contrived show that HB put on yesterday, and also the idea that he's been a silent commit for UNC for some time, and didn't tell other coaches. I don't think I'll have difficulty rooting against him as a Tar Heel.

Examples abound of very highly rated recruits who don't quite pan out. And if HB is a star right off the bat, chances grow that he'll be a one year college player. Is Brandan Wright a name we associate as being a major factor in ACC basketball?

On to the next play, which may include a chance at Roscoe Smith in the 2010 class or some very good small forward types in 2011.

Go, Duke.

Most signs point to HP not being a one-and-done which would be very unfortunate for us. Believing he's gone after one year may really just be wishful thinking.

mailman2927
11-14-2009, 08:29 AM
let's not get too crazy over this. although there is alot of hype surrounding this kid, he hasn't proven anything yet. let's face it he's not playing against the best competition in iowa. he may turn out to be great or maybe not. let's keep in mind some of the top recruits duke got that didn't exactly pan out. here are a few off the top of my head. i'm sure there are more.

mcroberts
shav
paulus
beard
boateng
thompson
chappelle

also, i think kyrie is going to turn out to be a much more important recruit. look at most of the teams that have a national championship over the years, the common denominator is a great pg. as evidenced by duke's three titles.

dukelifer
11-14-2009, 08:31 AM
How do you recruit someone for two years and have someone come in for the last four months and take that recruit?
Because North Carolina/Jordan has been a part of this kid's life since he was born. This is not the 1960's and 1970's. Kids grow up watching college basketball now from the time they can crawl. His Mom was a Jordan fanatic. UNC had a big advantage from the cradle. UNC also had a huge advantage in recruiting Grant Hill as well, he went the other way. The reality is that this kid had a chance to play for two of the best coaches in the game and he picked the other one. One of his best hoops friend picked K. This is not like a kid choosing between Duke and Virginia or Duke and Indiana- this is Duke and UNC. Duke lost the kid to a great program and a great coach - and I have no affection for UNC but you cannot deny what they have done. I have never seen this kid play and have no idea if he has the ability to carry a team to a championship- hit the shots under pressure- lead his teammates. I have no doubt he is talented- but there are a lot of talented kids- many in the 20's and 30's of their high school ranks. Irving is a talent and could carry a team. Curry is a talent and could carry a team. For all we know, Josh Hairston may have some innate knack for playing coach K D and may turn out to be Shane Battier. You just don't know until they lace em up.

dukelifer
11-14-2009, 08:38 AM
Landscapes change in college athletics. But I think that it will take a string of a couple Final 4's and/or a national championship for Duke to return to the platform of the upper echelon programs. Something needs to happen and fairly soon or else Duke will continue to lose out on the most coveted players. And in college basketball, those are the players that often get you to the next level.

Well why did UCLA not get Barnes? They are as relevant as any team in recent memory getting to the FF- including UNC? And they have a track record of creating some outstanding young pros. What about Florida- with as many national championships as UNC in the last few years? Or Kansas? The point is that there are many places to go. This kid's family grew up watching Jordan- they had a chance to send their kid to Jordan's college and by the way- UNC is good. This is about more than getting to the FF.

Faison1
11-14-2009, 08:50 AM
Man, that was a tough night's sleep. Harrison's announcement hit me pretty hard. Amongst the many thoughts I had while lying awake:

-How in the world did we lose a kid who surprised K on his birthday last year by being at the UNC game (and looking upset when Duke lost, I might add)?

-What does this say (if anything) about the future of Duke recruiting?

-Are all of Duke's recruits now in serious play with UNC (i.e. Quincy Miller, JP Tokoto) and how will K counter attacks from Roy?

-How will I react when I see Harrison in a UNC uniform? (I'm guessing it will feel like the time my girlfriend started dating a friend of mine: a mix between bitter pain, sadness, and resentment.)

-I feel horribly for K. I know how I feel when I lose a big deal, and it usually takes me at least 24 hours to get over it. So, for K to hear the result yesterday afternoon, then coach a game....well, my respect for him is that much greater.

hudlow
11-14-2009, 09:01 AM
Barnes will say to himself...

"I shoulda gone to Duke..."

hud

AtlBluRew
11-14-2009, 09:07 AM
let's not get too crazy over this. although there is alot of hype surrounding this kid, he hasn't proven anything yet. let's face it he's not playing against the best competition in iowa. he may turn out to be great or maybe not. let's keep in mind some of the top recruits duke got that didn't exactly pan out. here are a few off the top of my head. i'm sure there are more.

mcroberts
shav
paulus
beard
boateng
thompson
chappelle

also, i think kyrie is going to turn out to be a much more important recruit. look at most of the teams that have a national championship over the years, the common denominator is a great pg. as evidenced by duke's three titles.

I was trying to remember #1 recruits that Duke did get, and your list is missing a kid whose name I can't remember either. He was a Mormon kid with a meddlesome father. He stayed a year, I think, before transferring to Utah. As a remember, he was a player like McBob, tall but who preferred to shoot from the outside. Can anyone remember that kid's name?

Buckeye Devil
11-14-2009, 09:18 AM
Well why did UCLA not get Barnes? They are as relevant as any team in recent memory getting to the FF- including UNC? And they have a track record of creating some outstanding young pros. What about Florida- with as many national championships as UNC in the last few years? Or Kansas? The point is that there are many places to go. This kid's family grew up watching Jordan- they had a chance to send their kid to Jordan's college and by the way- UNC is good. This is about more than getting to the FF.

Valid points for this instance. Over the long haul I am not so sure. Carolina has proven king in getting the best players in recent years, several of which were coveted by Duke. But Carolina still can't compare to Ohio State, at least for this class.

TallMan
11-14-2009, 09:22 AM
I was trying to remember #1 recruits that Duke did get, and your list is missing a kid whose name I can't remember either. He was a Mormon kid with a meddlesome father. He stayed a year, I think, before transferring to Utah. As a remember, he was a player like McBob, tall but who preferred to shoot from the outside. Can anyone remember that kid's name?

Chris Burgess

blu62
11-14-2009, 09:30 AM
As others have said, you never know how players will pan out. Harrison Barnes seems like a nice well spoken kid who would have represented Duke well. I wish him well, but not too well.

derayb
11-14-2009, 09:37 AM
1) Don't put too much hope into the decisions of 17/18 year old kids

2) Don't put too much faith into the words of "insiders"

3) No program worth its salt rises or falls based on the recruitment decision of one kid


Harrison Barnes as much as I or anyone on this board hates it is a Tar Heel. Let's work our tails off to get Smith to complete this class and then move on to Miller, Beal, etc. for 2011.

kong123
11-14-2009, 10:02 AM
even though the pain and disappointment we are all feeling right now is overwhelming, it popped into my mind that perhaps that the HB recruiting battle was one of the best battles we have ever had with UNC. It lasted months with tons of suspense, all capped off by a last second shot that knocked the breath out of everyone.

Duke will be fine. We will still win our share of games against the holes. If anything, this is more fuel added to a fire that was already burning out of control.

moonpie23
11-14-2009, 10:07 AM
yaaaaawwwnnn,.....



hmm.....great game last night.....my son and i enjoyed it. He got some autographs and met mason plum and chris collins.


barnes: last time i'm gonna say this....Good luck man...but we won;t be rooting for your till you take off that baby blue...(and then maybe not then)



who wants to bet that WASN'T roy's personal skype number? ;)

Misunderestimated
11-14-2009, 10:07 AM
You're right, Duke will be fine. Once the sting losing HB dies down a little, we should get some perspective. Life goes on. Lots of reasons to be excited about the present and future of Duke BBall.

Onlyduke
11-14-2009, 10:14 AM
I haven't read this entire thread, so I hope I'm not repeating what someone has already said. I agree with dukelifer who said that UNC/Jordan was a big part of his life ever since he could remember. One of his middle names was Jordan ..... how can you compete with that? I'm sure his mother was a huge part of his decision and she has always been a Jordan fan. Ol' Roy knew exactly what he was doing when Michael Jordan was on campus the same weekend HB made his visit.

NYDukie
11-14-2009, 10:24 AM
I cannot agree that Boozer, Brand, and Deng are SUPERstars. They're stars, but they're second bananas or the best players on a bad team. Let me just be clear. I am not saying that other schools have NBA superstars right now. However, a lot of them have a history of NBA superstars to throw at recruits. UNC certainly does. Nothing would help Duke more than producing an NBA superstar to sell to top 5 recruits right now. Well, repealing the one-and-done rule may help more...

Just catching up but other than Pierce, and that was at Kansas about 12 years ago, who was the last NBA superstart Roy developed? We can nickle and dime each of the players he has had as say he hasn't developed each to their full NBA potential. Let's name some of them.

May - bust?
McCants - bust?
Felton - nice solid PG
Marvin - nice rotation forward
Lawson - early reports state solild PG potential
Ellington - borderline rotation guard
Hanbrough - solid rotation forward

I may be missing someone over the years Roy has been at UNC but that isn't NBA superstar material in my book. Prior to UNC, other than Hinrich, I can't remember a KU player either this decade (correct me if I am wrong). What's the difference between Deng, G, JJ, Shane, Dahntay, Shav and Sheldon compared to them? I can't argue his coaching ability, the success with UNC and it's championships but to say Roy produces better NBA players compared to Coach K is a myth.

houstondukie
11-14-2009, 10:25 AM
even though the pain and disappointment we are all feeling right now is overwhelming, it popped into my mind that perhaps that the HB recruiting battle was one of the best battles we have ever had with UNC. It lasted months with tons of suspense, all capped off by a last second shot that knocked the breath out of everyone.

Duke will be fine. We will still win our share of games against the holes. If anything, this is more fuel added to a fire that was already burning out of control.

You just now realized this?

kong123
11-14-2009, 10:37 AM
not simply the best recruiting battle, but one of the best battles/games ever between the two schools. we only play the holes twice a year, most of the time, and those games only last a couple of hours. this game has been ongoing for years and has really become intense over the last couple of months. how many times did you check the site yesterday praying for some information that would rest your mind? i checked quite a bit. it was exciting for it to go right down to the wire like it did. wish it would have gone our way, but it was an incredibly well played game by our side and we fell a little short. it hurts but thats how it goes. remember when capel hit the half court shot to take the holes to overtime? we made the shot but they won the game. perhaps the HB bust will be their last second shot to take it into overtime, but the game has yet to be decided...... lets choose to look at it that way.

DukeSean
11-14-2009, 10:49 AM
remember when capel hit the half court shot to take the holes to overtime? we made the shot but they won the game. perhaps the HB bust will be their last second shot to take it into overtime, but the game has yet to be decided...... lets choose to look at it that way.

nice analogy, I like it! I'm more concerned with a championship rather than individual recruiting battles.

Devilsfan
11-14-2009, 10:53 AM
IMO, you're wrong. I don't remember reading about Napolean saying what a great battle Waterloo was or Japan saying how great WWII was. We lost again and that sucks. Thank goodness we have Kyle, Nolan and Jon for now and Kyrie coming in to replace Jon next year. But we could use another superstar to say the least. I know we have tried but K didn't accept second place in the olympics so I don't think he'll mope very long. But does he have the recruiting staff now that brought in all those stars of the past? I hope our batting average gets better so we can go deep in the tournament once again.

Bay Area Duke Fan
11-14-2009, 11:01 AM
I may be missing someone over the years Roy has been at UNC but that isn't NBA superstar material in my book. Prior to UNC, other than Hinrich, I can't remember a KU player either this decade (correct me if I am wrong). What's the difference between Deng, G, JJ, Shane, Dahntay, Shav and Sheldon compared to them? I can't argue his coaching ability, the success with UNC and it's championships but to say Roy produces better NBA players compared to Coach K is a myth.

Coach K may produce better NBA players than Roy, but I'd rather have NCAA championship teams at Duke.

BD80
11-14-2009, 11:08 AM
....Bad things happen in 3's. Nolan's suspension, MP2 breaking his wrist and HB breaking our hearts. ..

Thanks for reminding me of Nolan, I hope that is close enough to be bunched with the other two. I was dreading what the third bad thing would be after MP2 and HB.


... for whatever reason and maybe it is just coincidental, Coach K did not succeed in recruiting the top or close to the top African-American front court player as cited previously, ...

This is ludicrous, distinguishing front court players from back court players in your racist observations. Well, we have done well with left-handed African-American players from Tennessee, or African-American thespians from New Jersey, is that relevant?


...how much fun are the crazies going to have razzing HB when he comes to Cameron next year?

Nope, I say give him the silent treatment. It sounds like he wants the thrill of playing in Cameron. Let's deprive him. Boo the heels like crazie, but when HB is introduced or is on the line: silence. If he doesn't want the Duke experience, he shouldn't get to enjoy it when visiting.


I will say this again in clearer terms...the problem isn't Coach K, it is Duke University(the school, the students, etc.) ... Do you think a high school kid like Barnes would feel more comfortable around a bunch of spoiled rich kids or a bunch of public school kids? The answer is obvious. Coach K does wonders with the cards he is dealt.

I don't believe the issue is one of "spoiled rich kids," but rather the arrogant air of superiority. Making it into (and through) Duke is quite an accomplishment, but there is an academic elitism that can be off-puting. The attitude is often seen on this board, and is at the core of much of the Cameron craziness. It would be nice if we could tone down the obnoxious attitude, but we are what we are. Individually, the vast majority of Dukies are really cool.



Most signs point to HP not being a one-and-done which would be very unfortunate for us. Believing he's gone after one year may really just be wishful thinking.

The fact that he chose UNC indicates that he wants to be a one-and-done. Of course, like Lawson and his contemporaries, it might not work out for the recruit, but very well for 'ol roy.

DukeSean
11-14-2009, 11:13 AM
seriously, can we please dispense with the race card when talking about recruiting? people like to shove it in everywhere else it's not welcome, doesn't need to be in here either.

Kedsy
11-14-2009, 11:20 AM
IMO, you're wrong. I don't remember reading about Napolean saying what a great battle Waterloo was or Japan saying how great WWII was.

You're comparing losing one recruit to having atomic bombs dropped on two of your major cities? Please go outside right now and dig around in the bushes; perhaps you can find some perspective.

Highlander
11-14-2009, 11:24 AM
Just being crude and angry at Barnes would be weird. I suggest we try "Go to hell Harrison, go to hell". At least there's tradition behind that.

"You Chose Poorly" Clap x5

SoCalDukeFan
11-14-2009, 11:32 AM
Whatever you think of him, Roy is now clearly the top honest(Calipari does not count) recruiter in the country. Most of his recruits turn out to be good players. And, most importantly, he does not seem to waste time on players he is not going to get. He and his staff do a great job of evaluating talent and their chance of getting the talent.

In 2004 we went to a Final Four when the current high school seniors were in 6th grade. Since then they watched UNC win two NC with 2 different teams. Why would you not want to go there if you were a top player?

I understand that the Olympics are good for Coach K and what is good for Coach K is good for Duke. Beyond that, I see no benefit to Duke from the Olympics, yet. Hopefully it will come.

SoCal

BD80
11-14-2009, 11:36 AM
... I understand that the Olympics are good for Coach K and what is good for Coach K is good for Duke. Beyond that, I see no benefit to Duke from the Olympics, yet. Hopefully it will come.

SoCal

There are none so blind as those who will not see

Kedsy
11-14-2009, 11:53 AM
Your guess would be wrong. As I listed, we whiffed on our top targets for those years i.e., Boynton, Barnes, Monroe, Patterson.

Well, if you already listed it than you must be right. Especially because I'm sure K showed you his "list" and these guys were of course the top name. K never showed me his list so I'm at a disadvantage.

But let's break it down, shall we? This year, what was more important, a PG or a SF? Clearly a PG, so at worst Kyrie was a co-top target. Last year, didn't we need a big man as much as a combo guard? So, I'm saying Mason was at least a co-top target with Boynton. In 2008, I'll grant you Monroe was probably our top target. And in 2006, Brandan Wright (who you neglected to mention) may have been considered a bigger target than G (Wright was #3 RSCI and G was #10), although who can say for sure (other than you, of course). In 2007, Kyle was RSCI #5 and Patterson was #9 (and we got in a little late with him) so I think there's no way Patterson was our top target.

Having said all that, I think this argument is stupid. There is no list and there's rarely just one "top" guy. The staff identifies several players who are good enough students and fill big needs and they go after them.

But thanks for letting me know my guess was wrong.

VaDukie
11-14-2009, 12:00 PM
I'm not sure if this has been said or not, but if we're going to bash our heads in over K losing Barnes to UNC when we considered the favorite for so long, then don't we have to give him credit for getting Irving from Indiana when they were equally favored?

rotogod00
11-14-2009, 12:12 PM
Well, if you already listed it than you must be right. Especially because I'm sure K showed you his "list" and these guys were of course the top name. K never showed me his list so I'm at a disadvantage.

But let's break it down, shall we? This year, what was more important, a PG or a SF? Clearly a PG, so at worst Kyrie was a co-top target. Last year, didn't we need a big man as much as a combo guard? So, I'm saying Mason was at least a co-top target with Boynton. In 2008, I'll grant you Monroe was probably our top target. And in 2006, Brandan Wright (who you neglected to mention) may have been considered a bigger target than G (Wright was #3 RSCI and G was #10), although who can say for sure (other than you, of course). In 2007, Kyle was RSCI #5 and Patterson was #9 (and we got in a little late with him) so I think there's no way Patterson was our top target.

Having said all that, I think this argument is stupid. There is no list and there's rarely just one "top" guy. The staff identifies several players who are good enough students and fill big needs and they go after them.

But thanks for letting me know my guess was wrong.

agree with you that irving was the more important get for on the court, but for as long as we were recruiting him, barnes was clearly our top target in this class. and that's what makes his loss so disappointing. there's a changing of the guard happening if it hasn't happened already.

NSDukeFan
11-14-2009, 12:32 PM
Well, if you already listed it than you must be right. Especially because I'm sure K showed you his "list" and these guys were of course the top name. K never showed me his list so I'm at a disadvantage.

But let's break it down, shall we? This year, what was more important, a PG or a SF? Clearly a PG, so at worst Kyrie was a co-top target. Last year, didn't we need a big man as much as a combo guard? So, I'm saying Mason was at least a co-top target with Boynton. In 2008, I'll grant you Monroe was probably our top target. And in 2006, Brandan Wright (who you neglected to mention) may have been considered a bigger target than G (Wright was #3 RSCI and G was #10), although who can say for sure (other than you, of course). In 2007, Kyle was RSCI #5 and Patterson was #9 (and we got in a little late with him) so I think there's no way Patterson was our top target.

Having said all that, I think this argument is stupid. There is no list and there's rarely just one "top" guy. The staff identifies several players who are good enough students and fill big needs and they go after them.

But thanks for letting me know my guess was wrong.

Sorry to hear your guess was wrong as you are one of the posters I most respect on here, based on many intelligent well thought out posts. I guess that will have to change as a newbie to the board obviously is correct since he/she said he/she was, though without any proof or even solid discussion.

BobbyFan
11-14-2009, 12:38 PM
I'm disappointed that we didn't get Barnes, but this recruiting battle wasn't anywhere near as important as all the attention would suggest.

First, and probably most obvious, high school recruiting is far from an exact science. There are multiple examples, including our own, of top 3 recruits that fell well short of expectations.

Next, the importance of landing a top recruit isn't what it was 20 years ago. Now, either the recruit fulfills his potential and leaves in a year, or becomes somewhat of a disappointment and stays longer. In the current environment, the player who has the most impact on a program is one who is an excellent college player, but isn't considered a top NBA pick, and stays in school for 3 or 4 years. Incidentally, we have one of those players on our team right now.

The goal is to win games and win championships. We did the former last night. I'll admit I used to follow recruiting intensely in the 90s, until I found it silly how weak a correlation there was between my excitement/disappointment over a 17 year-old kid's decision and the end result it actually wound up having on our program. Now, I only get involved in the games themselves and I think it's much better that way.

jipops
11-14-2009, 12:49 PM
Just catching up but other than Pierce, and that was at Kansas about 12 years ago, who was the last NBA superstart Roy developed? We can nickle and dime each of the players he has had as say he hasn't developed each to their full NBA potential. Let's name some of them.

May - bust?
McCants - bust?
Felton - nice solid PG
Marvin - nice rotation forward
Lawson - early reports state solild PG potential
Ellington - borderline rotation guard
Hanbrough - solid rotation forward

I may be missing someone over the years Roy has been at UNC but that isn't NBA superstar material in my book. Prior to UNC, other than Hinrich, I can't remember a KU player either this decade (correct me if I am wrong). What's the difference between Deng, G, JJ, Shane, Dahntay, Shav and Sheldon compared to them? I can't argue his coaching ability, the success with UNC and it's championships but to say Roy produces better NBA players compared to Coach K is a myth.

I have never bought the argument that certain coaches do and don't prepare players for the NBA. The whole discussion about who produces NBA players really is ridiculous. Did Tom Crean produce Dwayne Wade? Did Dave Odom produce Tim Duncan? Did Skip Prosser produce Chris Paul? If a player becomes a star in the league it is more than likely that player just has the ability to do so. Ofcourse coaches help, but there are certain facets of the NBA game required that no coach is simply going to add-on to a player. I do believe some coaches help prepare a player for NBA life and both K and Roy are two that do a great job of it. But if a player comes in with immense talent, it generally doesn't matter where he goes to school. If that player has the drive to keep getting better, then he'll be very successful. Does anybody really think Barnes would have a lesser NBA career if he had just stayed in Iowa? I'd say no.

Over the next few years Roy will likely have more productive pros placed in the NBA than anyone else. The reason for this is simple. He's got more talent going through the program than everyone else. Kudos to him.

Pernell
11-14-2009, 01:00 PM
Good points all around man. I would agree; the Crazies should just be silent when he is announced. I think that would be hilarious. And quite frankly, I understand why we all are disappointed, but let's stop crying over this one recruit. We are Duke(I guess I'm getting a little obnoxious) and why cry over something we can't change. We got Kyrie but didn't get HB, so the Duke staff must be doing something right.

Yes, I think the vast majority of us are really cool but it's always fun to needle my Tarheel friends and tell them that their recruits go there because UNC is not as rigorous. It's always in good fun and always draws a sharp reaction.

NSDukeFan
11-14-2009, 01:04 PM
Well, sure enough, the sun did come up this morning.

Especially after a great start to the season.

Your guess would be wrong. As I listed, we whiffed on our top targets for those years i.e., Boynton, Barnes, Monroe, Patterson.
Pretty self-assured towards a respected poster for someone without a whole lot of proof, IMO.

Well why did UCLA not get Barnes? They are as relevant as any team in recent memory getting to the FF- including UNC? And they have a track record of creating some outstanding young pros. What about Florida- with as many national championships as UNC in the last few years? Or Kansas? The point is that there are many places to go. This kid's family grew up watching Jordan- they had a chance to send their kid to Jordan's college and by the way- UNC is good. This is about more than getting to the FF.
So, you are saying there are other schools that didn't get Harrison as well? I agree we can't get them all. Even Roy and Calimari can't ;)

Barnes will say to himself...

"I shoulda gone to Duke..."

hud
Unfortunately, I doubt this will ever happen. Most people try to make the best of their situation rather than dwell on what ifs after the fact.

Just catching up but other than Pierce, and that was at Kansas about 12 years ago, who was the last NBA superstart Roy developed? We can nickle and dime each of the players he has had as say he hasn't developed each to their full NBA potential. ...
I can't argue his coaching ability, the success with UNC and it's championships but to say Roy produces better NBA players compared to Coach K is a myth.
I agree with your last point, but would not say that Roy does a poor job of producing NBA stars. Roy, just like K, sends a lot of players to the pros. I don't think that college coaches necessarily are the reason that pros later become superstars or not.

IMO, you're wrong. I don't remember reading about Napolean saying what a great battle Waterloo was or Japan saying how great WWII was. We lost again and that sucks.
I believe the previous poster's point was that yesterday our record was 1-0. We did not lose a single game on the court (where the games are actually played) yesterday.


This is ludicrous, distinguishing front court players from back court players in your racist observations. Well, we have done well with left-handed African-American players from Tennessee, or African-American thespians from New Jersey, is that relevant?

Nope, I say give him the silent treatment. It sounds like he wants the thrill of playing in Cameron. Let's deprive him. Boo the heels like crazie, but when HB is introduced or is on the line: silence. If he doesn't want the Duke experience, he shouldn't get to enjoy it when visiting.


I love the first point here I highlighted and thought this second point was a great idea. Who knows if it will be used, but it made sense to me. He will get to see how difficult it can be to win in Cameron, though.

Sorry if this post is long, I just figured out how to use multi-quote and got too excited.

One other point: After watching Olek start last night and play well, would there be any room for the one who shall no longer be named to play next year? I like the guys we have and last night was a great start to the season.

ArtVandelay
11-14-2009, 01:08 PM
Sometimes the answer is the simplest one. Barnes said he wants to make progress on a business degree. Can't do that at Duke, but he can at Carolina. Not that this explains all of it or anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's part of it, especially given his comments about how UNC had a good academic "plan" for him. Combine a great academic school with 2 national titles in the past 5 years or so, and it's not hard to figure out why he liked UNC.

Personally, I'd buy this explanation before other paranoid theories out there about how Duke can't recruit black "front court" players (notice how "can't recruit big men" has turned into "can't recruit black front court players," even though Barnes is a swingman).

rotogod00
11-14-2009, 01:08 PM
Especially after a great start to the season.

Pretty self-assured towards a respected poster for someone without a whole lot of proof, IMO.

So, you are saying there are other schools that didn't get Harrison as well? I agree we can't get them all. Even Roy and Calimari can't ;)

Unfortunately, I doubt this will ever happen. Most people try to make the best of their situation rather than dwell on what ifs after the fact.

I agree with your last point, but would not say that Roy does a poor job of producing NBA stars. Roy, just like K, sends a lot of players to the pros. I don't think that college coaches necessarily are the reason that pros later become superstars or not.

I believe the previous poster's point was that yesterday our record was 1-0. We did not lose a single game on the court (where the games are actually played) yesterday.


I love the first point here I highlighted and thought this second point was a great idea. Who knows if it will be used, but it made sense to me. He will get to see how difficult it can be to win in Cameron, though.

Sorry if this post is long, I just figured out how to use multi-quote and got too excited.

One other point: After watching Olek start last night and play well, would there be any room for the one who shall no longer be named to play next year? I like the guys we have and last night was a great start to the season.

seriously?

soccerstud2210
11-14-2009, 01:10 PM
bottom line:

this kills. but we have a decently solid team THIS year. can't focus on what could have been. i have a bunch of michigan buddies and they always talk about the fab 5 and what could have been if webber didnt call a timeout. fact is, he DID. nothing they or he can do to change that.

we lost barnes. and ya that sucks. a lot. especially because it was to our nemesis. frankly i would have had him go ANYWHERE but unc-ch, but he DIDNT. we have a chance to have a solid team THIS year and NEXT year. we looked decent last night with nolan and mason. thats awesome....

the season has started. let's get to it!!!!!

go duke!!!!

sandinmyshoes
11-14-2009, 01:27 PM
the Crazies should just be silent when he is announced. I think that would be hilarious..

I think a sinister collective "Welcome back, Mr. Barnes." followed by an evil genius mmmwaaa ha ha laugh would be perfect.

stillcrazie
11-14-2009, 01:47 PM
One thing that helped me get over this a bit is that the announcers on Sports Night (cable channel 14) who are normally pretty pro-Carolina were quite harsh on the way Barnes handled his commitment via skype. They noted that not only was it over the top, it was immature and arrogant of him to use words like "legacy" to describe his future career at UNC. Maybe this guy wasn't such a perfect fit for Duke after all.

I still woke up in a cold sweat during the night, don't get me wrong.

dukemsu
11-14-2009, 01:52 PM
One thing that helped me get over this a bit is that the announcers on Sports Night (cable channel 14) who are normally pretty pro-Carolina were quite harsh on the way Barnes handled his commitment via skype. They noted that not only was it over the top, it was immature and arrogant of him to use words like "legacy" to describe his future career at UNC. Maybe this guy wasn't such a perfect fit for Duke after all.

I still woke up in a cold sweat during the night, don't get me wrong.

I thought the same thing. It wasn't as bad as Jimmy Clausen announcing his decision to attend Notre Dame via stretch Hummer limo at the College Football Hall of Fame, but there was a degree of self-imposed pomposity about the proceedings.

Funny. Which school is usually associated with being pompous by the national media? Not UNC.

dukemsu