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Wheat/"/"/"
11-08-2009, 09:21 AM
Just in case you guys missed it over the weekend. ;)
I felt like I would be remiss in my duties around here if I didn't start this thread....

Tyler H game MVP, first NBA game. (http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/game_091106.html)

Some quick thoughts:

The "beaker" moniker still fits...whoever came up with that hit it out of the park, all other nicknames pale in comparison. Some around Indiana are calling him T-Bone now, along with Psycho T, but Beaker is the deal, it's a riot.
You might keep it to yourself if you are around him, however.

7-10 from the foul line in 13 minutes.
Looks like defenders who can't handle the strength and intensity are still fouling him, like they always did.

I'll put the over/under at 6 games from now before an opposing player gets a T in frustration for swinging at him, pushing, cheap fouling, etc....Fighting in general....I'll take the under.

His team will love him, other teams will hate him. Same with the fans.

Had a shot blocked right off, there will be more of that. He will keep coming...

He will have the same intensity in game 43, 44, 45....

Quote from Danny Granger:

"We had all been waiting to see Tyler play," said Danny Granger. "We've seen him play in practice and know how aggressive he is. They got a taste of it tonight. It was a lot of fun.

"He's like a big-man linebacker. He's going to get from point A to point B and take some people along with him in the process. ... He's so physical, he's one of those guys you definitely want on your team."

grossbus
11-08-2009, 09:28 AM
have to agree about the nickname!

i think he is going to do better in the league that i originally thought. he is relentless and that is going to put him in positions to score or get fouled, even against this level of competition.

kong123
11-08-2009, 09:58 AM
no matter what team we pull for, you have to admit that beaker keeps proving people wrong. 13 pts in 14 minutes is pretty efficient. he was one of the leading scorers on his team and played half the minutes.

airowe
11-08-2009, 10:03 AM
That extra step they added to the travelling rule couldn't have come at a better time for WOW!

Can't wait until the Pacers play the Cavs and Shaq gives his welcome to the league.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-08-2009, 10:20 AM
How about Haywood pulling down 19 rebounds? Anybody ever think he would become such a solid NBA player?

I'll admit I didn't.

I remember him as a soft overweight freshman and thinking "so this is the most powerful freshmen ACC center ever?" (That's what the recruiting services were saying at the time).

But he did have good hands and instincts, and he obviously found the commitment to get and stay in shape. He transformed that body.

As for TH and Shaq, I am actually looking forward to an NBA game again. TH won't move Shaq with his strength, nobody does. We'll find out just how strong TH thinks he is if he has to try and stop a post up move from the big fella'

airowe
11-08-2009, 10:40 AM
Are they really giving out MVP Awards for regular season games in the NBA now?

Is that kind of like a Helms Championship?

9F9F9F

SMO
11-08-2009, 10:54 AM
Just in case you guys missed it over the weekend. ;)
I felt like I would be remiss in my duties around here if I didn't start this thread....

Tyler H game MVP, first NBA game. (http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/game_091106.html)

Some quick thoughts:

The "beaker" moniker still fits...whoever came up with that hit it out of the park, all other nicknames pale in comparison. Some around Indiana are calling him T-Bone now, along with Psycho T, but Beaker is the deal, it's a riot.
You might keep it to yourself if you are around him, however.

7-10 from the foul line in 13 minutes.
Looks like defenders who can't handle the strength and intensity are still fouling him, like they always did.

I'll put the over/under at 6 games from now before an opposing player gets a T in frustration for swinging at him, pushing, cheap fouling, etc....Fighting in general....I'll take the under.

His team will love him, other teams will hate him. Same with the fans.

Had a shot blocked right off, there will be more of that. He will keep coming...

He will have the same intensity in game 43, 44, 45....

Quote from Danny Granger:

"We had all been waiting to see Tyler play," said Danny Granger. "We've seen him play in practice and know how aggressive he is. They got a taste of it tonight. It was a lot of fun.

"He's like a big-man linebacker. He's going to get from point A to point B and take some people along with him in the process. ... He's so physical, he's one of those guys you definitely want on your team."

Well, 13pts in a blow-out debut settles it for me. He's a sure hall of famer if I've ever seen one.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-08-2009, 11:05 AM
Are they really giving out MVP Awards for regular season games in the NBA now?
9F9F9F

I guess I should have said, POTG- Player of the Game- at least that's what the Pacers called him.

Dahntay played well, and McRoberts at least played, so you guys can take something away from this :)

El_Diablo
11-08-2009, 11:42 AM
I'll put the over/under at 6 games from now before an opposing player gets a T in frustration for swinging at him, pushing, cheap fouling, etc....Fighting in general....I'll take the under.

Under? Is Makhtar Ndiaye on the upcoming schedule?

airowe
11-08-2009, 11:55 AM
I think Wheat was just trying to give us all an outlet for all of our Cryolina hate built up from yesterday. I don't think we should delete it, just turn it into a PUNC bashing thread.

I heard Coke was dropping Roy from all further sponsorships because of his Sprite outburst in practice.

El_Diablo
11-08-2009, 11:57 AM
I think Wheat was just trying to give us all an outlet for all of our Cryolina hate built up from yesterday. I don't think we should delete it, just turn it into a PUNC bashing thread.

I heard Coke was dropping Roy from all further sponsorships because of his Sprite outburst in practice.

Was that before or after they lost to Vanderbilt?

airowe
11-08-2009, 12:05 PM
Was that before or after they lost to Vanderbilt?

Before they lost to Vanderbilt but after John Henson was pulled from the Muppets to play basketball.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
11-08-2009, 12:19 PM
I'm not usually excited to have Heel fans talking ish on a Duke board, especially when the subject has no connection to Duke basketball. Doing so the day after a big UNC win over Duke is just being rude.

Edouble
11-08-2009, 12:52 PM
Agree, I'm not usually excited to have Heel fans talking ish on a Duke board, especially when the subject has no connection to Duke basketball. Doing so the day after a big UNC win over Duke is just being rude.

Nah, Wheat is a good guy. He can't help it that Beaker's Big Breakout came at the same time as a silly football game. :p

Wheat, it's the first game my man. I will be interested to see if the intensity continues in game "43, 44, 45..." as you say. Also, will (can?!?!) the intensity continue in season 3, 4, 5... taking in the factors of age and a slight propensity for injury?

I feel like the 82 game schedule just kills the relentlessness of so many of the "energy" players as their careers progress. Congrats on one good night for your boy/old man, though. Ha! :D

sandinmyshoes
11-08-2009, 01:05 PM
If the Pacer's pace him, Hansbrough can probably maintain that intensity for an entire season. But I just don't see it happening if and when he gets closer to the twenty plus minutes a game mark. Season is just too long and his body will break down even if his "will" does not.

jipops
11-08-2009, 02:43 PM
I have always had little doubt that Tyler will have a long productive NBA career as a valuable role player. He has his weaknesses as does about 99% of the league, but he has many strengths to overcome them. I guy with that type of energy with the ability to score and rebound is perfect to have coming off the bench.

Here's my thing though, and it is of course speculative yet I believe to be very true. If Tyler were to have come to Duke and had a similar career and then gone on to the pros to be an extremely productive role player, most would label him as a bust. But since he didn't go to Duke, if he hovers around averaging 10pts per game and 6 boards for his career, he'll generally be labeled a success.

natedog4ever
11-08-2009, 02:48 PM
Gotta hand it to you guys, you are the most even-handed group of fans on the planet. JJ scores 27 points, pours it on in all the other stat categories, basically dominating a game and not one tar hole will admit that it is anyting close to a success. This guy puts up this weak sh)t and we have people here lauding him. Wow.

I am glad for unc that winning the football game saved their season. Tells me that Duke football has turned the corner and the Butch Davis experiment is just that.

We are going to kill them this year.

SMO
11-08-2009, 02:58 PM
Wait a minute...something's fishy. Hibbert has 12pts, 11rebs, and 5blks and Dahntay puts up 18pts, 5rebs, and 5asts and Beaker is the POTG with his 13pts and 3 fouls in 14 minutes? Maybe we can't put him in the hall after this one game after all. Perhaps we should start an NBA MVP watch thread to cover Beaker's performance throughout the year.

Greg_Newton
11-08-2009, 03:14 PM
Gotta hand it to you guys, you are the most even-handed group of fans on the planet. JJ scores 27 points, pours it on in all the other stat categories, basically dominating a game and not one tar hole will admit that it is anyting close to a success. This guy puts up this weak sh)t and we have people here lauding him. Wow.

I am glad for unc that winning the football game saved their season. Tells me that Duke football has turned the corner and the Butch Davis experiment is just that.

We are going to kill them this year.

I don't think it's fair to lump Wheat in with Tar Hole Nation, I'm sure he gave JJ his due props.

I for one expect HansWow to have a productive career, and hope he does. He seemed like a hard worker and never gave me a particular reason to hate him, plus, more success = more commercials!

Also, HansWow could easily be the most prominent/productive UNC alum in the NBA several years from now (as the VC/Sheed crew ages), while also being one of the most "hated" players in the NBA... awkward, over-physical white players with ugly games generally aren't universally loved. As a Duke fan, I would love it HasWow becomes the face of UNC in the NBA!

Wheat/"/"/"
11-08-2009, 04:31 PM
Wow! (In keeping with the wow theme of the thread)...I wake up after being away for a few days and read the TH story of his debut on NBA.com, check the board to see the discussion and there was none. So I started a thread that we have all had opinions about, one side or the other. I almost put it in the acting thread, but was thinking that the board needed an NBA/TH thread for the season because people will want to discuss him- good or bad- as we go along.

The great thing about DBR is it's also an ACC board. Sure it's a Duke fan base site, and fans who come here and disrespect the community need to take a hike. I certainly meant no disrespect by bringing up the debut. My opinion is discussion of TH's NBA carreer relates here on DBR as an ACC payer topic. If the mods disagree, they will take it down and we will move on.

IMO, this disscussion is no different than if we were talking about...Steve Blake or Tyrese Rice, Lawson, etc...

I don't follow football at all. I saw on the DBR front page that UNC won, but that's about as far as football goes with me...I could really care less about football and I never gave it a thought. You could argue that maybe I should have, but understand that I didn't.

If you ever read one of my post and think it's mean spirited, you are mistaken, or I have not done a very good job of relaying my thoughts.

About JJ....I liked his game, still do. Kid worked as hard off screens as anybody ever in college hoops.

About TH's body holding up....we'll see. The stress reaction in his shin was from over work, as I understand it, and they have had to force him to ease up with the workouts. He's not a dumb kid. He'll learn to pace his workout routines, but he will go hard at gametime or he won't go, it's in his DNA.

We all know people like that.

slower
11-08-2009, 04:41 PM
One thing we know for sure is that Hans will never be the "youngest player to..." do anything. ;)

Hans is also approximately 10 months younger than Lebron.

Oh, wait, I forgot...wow.

Edouble
11-08-2009, 04:52 PM
I could really care less about football and I never gave it a thought. You could argue that maybe I should have, but understand that I didn't.

Yeah, I personally couldn't care less about football. Because my caring is at an absolute minimum, it would be impossible for me to care about football any less than I already do. My idea is to keep pointing this out until people stop writing it, not to pick on you Wheat. It will probably never happen though.

Just like Beaker will never make an All-Star team. :p

It will be difficult to keep a Hansbrough NBA thread up all season w/out some snickering and poking fun, but as Wheat points out, this is a board that has always kept up with the ACC, and our powder blue, evil step-cousins down the road. If any non-Duke, ex-ACCer deserves an NBA thread, it's probably the master traveler.

dukemsu
11-08-2009, 04:58 PM
Have we not talked Beaker to death for the last 4 years?

Good luck, I guess. Thank God he's gone.

dukemsu

CDu
11-08-2009, 05:18 PM
IMO, this disscussion is no different than if we were talking about...Steve Blake or Tyrese Rice, Lawson, etc...

I can't remember the last time I saw a thread on DBR focusing on how Blake, Rice, or Lawson are faring in the NBA. I'm quite certain there wasn't a long prose praising the first NBA game of any of those players' pro careers. So I'm not sure that this was the best argument for the appropriateness of your post.

Hansbrough had a nice game. He's probably going to be a solid but not spectacular pro. But this thread is really best suited for a UNC message board. Duke fans are glad to be through thinking about Hansbrough, thank you very much.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-08-2009, 06:13 PM
couldn't ... My idea is to keep pointing this out until people stop writing it, not to pick on you Wheat. It will probably never happen though.

Touche'...1 down a bunch more to go...

I just don't see the big deal here, other than some of you seem way too sensitive regarding TH.

If the mods think this discussion is over the top, has no place here, so be it and I can move on. No need for it to get unpleasant.

I just thought after all the past discussion of TH to the NBA around here it would be an interesting thread to get opinions of his play.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-08-2009, 06:41 PM
I can't remember the last time I saw a thread on DBR focusing on how Blake, Rice, or Lawson are faring in the NBA. I'm quite certain there wasn't a long prose praising the first NBA game of any of those players' pro careers. So I'm not sure that this was the best argument for the appropriateness of your post.

I'm all for discussion of anything related to ACC basketball here, especially Duke related stuff, and actually anything basketball related for that matter.

As long as things stay polite, or at least civil, why not? If the board is not interested, there will not be replies and the topic will fade away.

I pass over topics I have no interest in all the time. I don't understand why this one should be off limits for those, many Duke fans as well, who have an interest?

If Blake,Rice or anyone else from the world of college hoops and beyond could carry a conversation, why shouldn't we have one here?

If TH had been dominated in his first NBA game...would there be a thread?

I'd say so, although someone would have no doubt beat me to putting one up. I would have gladly joined in with an opinion- respectfully submitted, of course.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
11-08-2009, 07:04 PM
When two buddies are hanging out and shooting the ish one guy bragging about his nice new sports car is one thing. When one buddy just won the lottery (twice) and the other has had several tough years at the office, bragging about the nice new sports car sounds different. When that buddy just crushed the other in their monthly tennis match a few hours earlier, it really looks different.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-08-2009, 07:53 PM
When two buddies are hanging out and shooting the ish one guy bragging about his nice new sports car is one thing. When one buddy just won the lottery (twice) and the other has had several tough years at the office, bragging about the nice new sports car sounds different. When that buddy just crushed the other in their monthly tennis match a few hours earlier, it really looks different.

If that's how my posts in this thread have come accross...my apologies to all.

CDu
11-08-2009, 07:59 PM
I'm all for discussion of anything related to ACC basketball here, especially Duke related stuff, and actually anything basketball related for that matter.

As long as things stay polite, or at least civil, why not? If the board is not interested, there will not be replies and the topic will fade away.

I pass over topics I have no interest in all the time. I don't understand why this one should be off limits for those, many Duke fans as well, who have an interest?

If Blake,Rice or anyone else from the world of college hoops and beyond could carry a conversation, why shouldn't we have one here?

If TH had been dominated in his first NBA game...would there be a thread?

I'd say so, although someone would have no doubt beat me to putting one up. I would have gladly joined in with an opinion- respectfully submitted, of course.

This is a DUKE community. We talk about what we want to talk about. If you're looking for a thoughtful and lengthy discussion of former (non-Duke) ACC players in the NBA, you should probably look elsewhere. There's nothing inherently WRONG with discussing former ACC players. But it's sort of up to the community to have interest in discussing it. That was kind of my point - I think there's a lack of interest among DBRers in Hansbrough at this point. No point in trying to pushing Duke fans to talk about something that, as a community, we just don't have much interest in talking about.

allenmurray
11-08-2009, 07:59 PM
If that's how my posts in this thread have come accross...my apologies to all.

Wheat - I'm a big fan of yours and I love your posts - but that is in fact how this one comes across. To compare Hansbrough to Steve Blake or Tyrese Rice kinds of leaves out the whole rivalry dimension, don't you think? Thus, it is hardly a fair comparison. I also don't think for a minute taht you intended it that way.

CDu
11-08-2009, 08:01 PM
Wheat - I'm a big fan of yours and I love your posts - but that is in fact how this one comes across. To compare Hansbrough to Steve Blake or Tyrese Rice kinds of leaves out the whole rivalry dimension, don't you think? Thus, it is hardly a fair comparison.

Completely agreed. And again - nobody here was that interested in talking about Blake or Rice either, once they left for the NBA. I'd say there's even less interest in talking about Hansbrough in the NBA.

soccerstud2210
11-08-2009, 08:06 PM
1st game. in a blowout. keep it in perspective. sheesh.

RelativeWays
11-08-2009, 08:08 PM
If it makes you feel better Wheat, I never took this thread to be anything other than about Beaker's NBA debut. He's always going to be one of those players that will rub Duke fans the wrong way, we can pick on him but I don't think mentioning his NBA game debut is that big of infraction. UNC has beaten Duke 19 out of the last 20 times by now, most of us are numb to it by now. There are several posters here that seem to disapprove of Duke/ACC football talk since this site is called "Duke Basketball Report". Why they would go ahead and infer gloating by a rival fan in a sport they think shouldn't be mentioned here is a bit odd.

weezie
11-08-2009, 08:09 PM
1st game. in a blowout. keep it in perspective. sheesh.


Against the woeful Wizards to boot.
Poor Flip Saunders.

Newton_14
11-08-2009, 08:13 PM
First, I agree with AllenMurray and CDu as the timing of the thread was not real good.

I will cut Wheat some slack for one reason only. With him being a holes fan, he has limited (actually none besides DBR) choices when looking for a board to have adult type conversation...It's not like he has a home team board that offers that....

-bdbd
11-08-2009, 08:25 PM
How about Haywood pulling down 19 rebounds? Anybody ever think he would become such a solid NBA player? I'll admit I didn't.

I remember him as a soft overweight freshman and thinking "so this is the most powerful freshmen ACC center ever?" (That's what the recruiting services were saying at the time).

But he did have good hands and instincts, and he obviously found the commitment to get and stay in shape. He transformed that body.

As a DC area resident and long-time follower of the Wizards - yes that has taken some real patience - I think you are barking up the wrong tree if you're looking for big Haywood fans in DC. In fact, the recent (5 games) aggressiveness has been credited by local media on some excellent big-man coaching my Wizards Assistant Coach Gene Banks! Yes, a Dukie. The announcers on yesterday's telecast had a little discussion regarding some of the "beat-on-him" techniques used by Banks to "toughen Haywood up" this off-season. In DC Haywood has long been known as one of many draft/trade mistakes made by former (and discredited) GM, M. Jordan. That GM for some reason seemed to love to draft or trade for former UNC-ch players (see a pattern in Charlotte??). A couple didn't go so well, but at least Jamison has been solid. Haywood has a long rep for laziness and soft play and propensity not to play thru (relatively minor) injuries. I'll reserve judgment for this "improved attitude and shape" until we're at least a few weeks into the season. We'll see.

As for Beaker, don't think MVP was deserved for that brief appearance. I do love his competitiveness, but the League has a long history of sapping that sort of energy out of many-a-energetic-young-player...

This string is starting to look like a Stewart Scott NBA highlight segment. You know, where ANY former Tarheel who scored any points gets shown on the highlight real of the game, even if that was their ONLY bucket of the night, or they also had 10 turnovers... BTW, why doesn't he ever show any of 'sheed's record-breaking Technicals on the ESPN highlights?? Now that would be a fun match-up to watch vs Beaker!

-BDBD :D

Wheat/"/"/"
11-08-2009, 08:31 PM
This is a DUKE community. We talk about what we want to talk about. If you're looking for a thoughtful and lengthy discussion of former (non-Duke) ACC players in the NBA, you should probably look elsewhere. There's nothing inherently WRONG with discussing former ACC players. But it's sort of up to the community to have interest in discussing it. That was kind of my point - I think there's a lack of interest among DBRers in Hansbrough at this point. No point in trying to pushing Duke fans to talk about something that, as a community, we just don't have much interest in talking about.

I totally respect that this is a Duke community. Been around here for around 15 years and will let that record speak for itself.

But I have to say you are being pretty presumptious as to what the rest of the board should, or would like to discuss in a civil manner.

The point of bringing up TH's first NBA game had nothing to do with Duke/UNC- in my mind.

It was just one game againt a weak Wizards team, both valid points and the type of thoughts I was expecting to see, not all this.

It was about discussing a player, yea one who was a rival, but one who we all had strong and differing opinions of his play in past threads...and how he would do in his first NBA game. And he had that first game.

Why do we discuss John Wall? Jeremy Tyler? Whoever? Because we are fans of the game and this is an excellent site for in depth discussion.

I'll back off this if nobody wants to discuss TH and the NBA, I do respect the board and it's not that big a deal to me.

But if people do want to discuss his play in the NBA, I'll join in.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-08-2009, 08:38 PM
First, I agree with AllenMurray and CDu as the timing of the thread was not real good.

I will cut Wheat some slack for one reason only. With him being a holes fan, he has limited (actually none besides DBR) choices when looking for a board to have adult type conversation...It's not like he has a home team board that offers that....

Yea, my timing was poor, in hindsight. This all caught me by surprise. Maybe I should start watching more football.

And there is no UNC site, or any college site, that I like as much as this one. The usually rational, measured, witty, passionate, intelligent conversation is an oasis in a desert of &^%$

Edouble
11-08-2009, 08:50 PM
This is a DUKE community. We talk about what we want to talk about. If you're looking for a thoughtful and lengthy discussion of former (non-Duke) ACC players in the NBA, you should probably look elsewhere. There's nothing inherently WRONG with discussing former ACC players. But it's sort of up to the community to have interest in discussing it. That was kind of my point - I think there's a lack of interest among DBRers in Hansbrough at this point. No point in trying to pushing Duke fans to talk about something that, as a community, we just don't have much interest in talking about.

I, for one, was interested. I may be the only one. I don't know. There were a few insightful comments made on this thread by people besides Wheat and me before the protestors showed up. Han Skywalker was the most prolific scorer in the history of our conference and I don't think discussing his first NBA game is without merrit. I mean, jeez, people are still discussing Eric Boateng around here. I know the guy suited up for Duke, but just barely. Beaker sure got more PT on Cameron's fabled floor than Boateng, King, Boykin, and several others that we are still talking about around here.

CDu
11-08-2009, 09:03 PM
But I have to say you are being pretty presumptious as to what the rest of the board should, or would like to discuss in a civil manner.

I never said the Duke board shouldn't discuss it. I just said that I didn't think you'd find much interest from this community, and that the post was probably better served among Carolina fans. And I think the general lack of actual discussion on the topic is evidence of that being the case.

The point I made about this being Duke community was evidence as to why I felt people wouldn't be interested - not evidence as to why it shouldn't be discussed.

juise
11-08-2009, 09:35 PM
My thoughts:

(1) I also want to affirm that Wheat is a valuable contributor to both DBR boards.
(2) I don't know if this was pointed out already, but there was a thread about Lawson last week. I contributed to it. Someone asked that it be moved to the IC boards, which I didn't think was a contribution, to be honest.
(3) I know it's already been mentioned, but I like the comparison between naming a "game MVP" and Carolina's banner hanging practices. :)

Wheat/"/"/"
11-08-2009, 09:44 PM
I didn't even get to see the Wizards/Pacers game. I doubt many did. I only saw the box score and read the game stories. I think many Duke fans are curious as to how he actually looks against NBA opponents and will be quick to discuss his play, one way or the other, when they can see him play.

Duke fans are basketball fans too.

I guess we'll see how much interest the board has when he faces someone like Shaq or Duncan on national TV.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-08-2009, 09:46 PM
(3) I know it's already been mentioned, but I like the comparison between naming a "game MVP" and Carolina's banner hanging practices. :)

You did note my non reply to that point, I'm sure :)

slower
11-08-2009, 09:55 PM
When two buddies are hanging out and shooting the ish one guy bragging about his nice new sports car is one thing. When one buddy just won the lottery (twice) and the other has had several tough years at the office, bragging about the nice new sports car sounds different. When that buddy just crushed the other in their monthly tennis match a few hours earlier, it really looks different.

The problem with the posts of Wheat and other Holes is that there's usually a subtext of rubbing it in the nose of the Duke community. Despite your denials to the contrary, we remain unconvinced.

But maybe, from this point forward, we should turn any seemingly passive/aggressive Hole threads into discussions of the arrest records of Joe Forte, King Rice and others or polls about Jeff McInnis and Phil Ford's wife. You know, since they were all ALSO ACC players and therefore relevant.

Edouble
11-09-2009, 12:18 AM
The problem with the posts of Wheat and other Holes is that there's usually a subtext of rubbing it in the nose of the Duke community. Despite your denials to the contrary, we remain unconvinced.

This is the second post (CDu was the other) that has spoken on behalf of the entire board, using "we".

Please stop.

Would you like it if I spoke for you?

darthur
11-09-2009, 12:24 AM
The problem with the posts of Wheat and other Holes is that there's usually a subtext of rubbing it in the nose of the Duke community. Despite your denials to the contrary, we remain unconvinced.

But maybe, from this point forward, we should turn any seemingly passive/aggressive Hole threads into discussions of the arrest records of Joe Forte, King Rice and others or polls about Jeff McInnis and Phil Ford's wife. You know, since they were all ALSO ACC players and therefore relevant.

I for one am glad to have Wheat's contributions, and I do not understand why you all are giving him a hard time. He didn't knock Duke once, he was just excited about an alum doing well in his NBA debut. Good for Hansbrough I say - he seems like a good guy and I'm glad he won't be beating up on us anymore. Like Redick, he seemed like a player that achieved greatness by sheer force of will, and I respect that, and I will enjoy watching him in the NBA.

Fans of other schools who also respect us are a valuable addition to this site, and we shouldn't chase them off.

Edouble
11-09-2009, 12:44 AM
I for one am glad to have Wheat's contributions, and I do not understand why you all are giving him a hard time. He didn't knock Duke once, he was just excited about an alum doing well in his NBA debut. Good for Hansbrough I say - he seems like a good guy and I'm glad he won't be beating up on us anymore. Like Redick, he seemed like a player that achieved greatness by sheer force of will, and I respect that, and I will enjoy watching him in the NBA.

Fans of other schools who also respect us are a valuable addition to this site, and we shouldn't chase them off.

I agree. There has been one Carolina player in my 25 years as a Duke fan whose only fault I could find was that he wore Carolina blue, and that was Antawn Jamison. Wheat has spoken in that manner of several of our current players. I'm guessing that he either bends over backwards around here in order to keep a good rep because he likes our boards, or he is just a really good guy that happens to root for the damn Tarheels. Either way, I am glad to have him, and his history of posts is such that he has neither earned nor deserves to be castigated as an instigator of nose rubbing or poor taste in thread topic.

Plus, I challenge any one on this board that follows the NBA to tell me they are not at least mildly interested in how the great frozen pea diver fares in the league.

Is it me, or is absolutely hilarious that it's "OK" for us to discuss Hans in a car commercial, or in a verizon commercial (or whatever that kitten crap was) but it's completely taboo to talk about him actually playing basketball?

Also... I'm a little ill at having to work so hard to stick up for a ... Tarheel, no offense Wheat. So can those that want to discuss Hans do so, while the rest spend time on other important posts... like, oh I don't know, football, the 2010 NBA draft, or Taylor King. :mad:

dukebluelemur
11-09-2009, 01:15 AM
Sheesh guys, talk about overreacting. One of the things I love about DBR is that we have some well-spoken opposing fans who feel safe coming on here for friendly the debate of items of mutual interest. Wheat foremost among them.

Maybe it was unfortunate timing, coming after the football game... but really guys, there has been loads of speculation on this sight regarding THs prospects as a pro. Most of them have expressed a lot of skepticism. I see nothing wrong with a thread to discuss his first performance.

As someone said, if he'd fouled out in 6 minutes and gotten posterized in the midst of getting called for traveling, there sure as heck would be a thread. One way or the other, it is an issue of interest to at least some duke fans on this forum.

JBDuke
11-09-2009, 01:19 AM
Folks, I've deleted a few posts in this thread that requested mod actions, and some replies to those posts. If you have a mod request, please use the "report post" function, and we'll evaluate it.

Second, while the timing (coming right after the football loss) wasn't great, it was certainly reasonable for Wheat to start this thread. And the fact that it has generated the number of responses it has in fairly short order shows that lots of folks are reading it and contributing to it. For those of you that think it deserves to be deleted or isn't worthy of your time, no one made you open the thread in the first place, and no one made you post in it, either.

So, please confine future posts in this thread to the subject at hand - that is, Hansbrough's NBA debut.

slower
11-09-2009, 11:31 AM
This is the second post (CDu was the other) that has spoken on behalf of the entire board, using "we".

Please stop.

Would you like it if I spoke for you?

I was using the royal "we". ;)

And yes, you may speak for me - if your voice sounds like James Earl Jones or Sam Elliott.

Wheat's a big boy. I think he has some idea of the potential action/reaction to his posts.

Congrats to Hans on a successful debut.

UrinalCake
11-09-2009, 11:49 AM
I also expected Hansbrough to be solid but not spectacular in the NBA. What I can't seem to figure out about him is why opponents don't just go back at him and attack him physically. By attack I mean in a basketball sense, of course. In college I thought a.) UNC had too many other big guys so it was hard to go after him, and b.) Hans got some protection from the refs (not trying to start a flame war on that topic, just mentioning my biased opinion). Anyways, I expected that in the NBA Hans would more often be at a size disadvantage and wouldn't be able to muscle over everybody. I guess the fact that he continues to draw fouls and score points is a credit to his abilities.

Duvall
11-09-2009, 12:12 PM
How about Haywood pulling down 19 rebounds? Anybody ever think he would become such a solid NBA player?

Wait, when did that happen? Somebody should tell the Wizards.

CEF1959
11-09-2009, 12:40 PM
Lots of bitterness here; lots of negative talk about other peoples' posts. I think all that's fine. Glad to see that negative comments about this or that, including other peoples' posts, are still fair commentary.

On a positive note about TH: I hated what he did to us, but I have always liked his game and liked his decisionmaking in sticking around (though not the effect it ultimately had). Tough guy who I thought was underrated by the pro scouts. Now that he's no longer banging our guys around in the paint, but rather trying to make a life for himself as a young 20-something guy, I wish him well.

And if you think about it, it reflects well on Duke if their losses to Carolina were due, in part, to a good NBA player. It would suck to have been punked by some weak-arg players. I have trouble trash talking about former-opponents who are just out there trying to make a living (as opposed to beating us).

Here's a coaching take I'll throw out there too: I don't think it says much about a coach if he wins with highly touted future-NBA players who go on to success in the NBA. He doesn't (necessarily) add that much value, because the players were that good all along. On the other hand, if a coach wins championships with players who DON'T later become NBA all-stars, you are more likely to be looking at a really good college coach. [Of course, the best coach would take drivel and turn them into NCAA champs and NBA players, but there's only so much you can do with a sow's ear].

My point there being that if Roy won the NCAA championship with good NBA players, that doesn't say as much about Roy's coaching as it does his recruiting. I wouldn't say that ANYONE could have won with his team last year, but I don't think it's much of a coup for Roy to have done so given the raw materials he had to work with. K's raw material was less, because not having an inside presence is huge in today's college game. TH's success in the NBA drives that point home in a way that wouldn't be driven home if TH sucked in the NBA.

airowe
11-09-2009, 12:46 PM
Here's a coaching take I'll throw out there too: I don't think it says much about a coach if he wins with highly touted future-NBA players who go on to success in the NBA. He doesn't (necessarily) add that much value, because the players were that good all along. On the other hand, if a coach wins championships with players who DON'T later become NBA all-stars, you are more likely to be looking at a really good college coach. [Of course, the best coach would take drivel and turn them into NCAA champs and NBA players, but there's only so much you can do with a sow's ear].

My point there being that if Roy won the NCAA championship with good NBA players, that doesn't say as much about Roy's coaching as it does his recruiting. I wouldn't say that ANYONE could have won with his team last year, but I don't think it's much of a coup for Roy to have done so given the raw materials he had to work with. K's raw material was less, because not having an inside presence is huge in today's college game. TH's success in the NBA drives that point home in a way that wouldn't be driven home if TH sucked in the NBA.

I completely disagree. A large part of the college game is recruiting, but if you are wildly successful at recruiting, you still have to be a great coach to be able to manage everyone's game and egos to work as a team. Just because you have great talent doesn't mean you have a great team.

Is Phil Jackson a bad coach because he couldn't get Karl Malone, Kobe, Shaq, Gary Payton, etc to win the year that he had all those guys on one team in LA? No.

Also, by this rationale, who has been a successful coach over the last 20 years? Not Coach K because all of his championship teams had great athletes who went on to have successful NBA careers?

I don't buy it. Coaching guys up is a huge part of being a great coach, but not the only part...

Edouble
11-09-2009, 12:52 PM
Here's a coaching take I'll throw out there too: I don't think it says much about a coach if he wins with highly touted future-NBA players who go on to success in the NBA. He doesn't (necessarily) add that much value, because the players were that good all along.

Also, completely disagree. Follow Ga Tech basketball (under Cremins or Hewitt) and you'll see that it takes more than talent. Coaches add value and build teams. Any team that reaches the Final Four usually has 2 to 3 future NBA players anyway, so coaching is one of the big variables that contributes to cutting down the nets on Monday night.

CEF1959
11-09-2009, 12:58 PM
I completely disagree.

Is Phil Jackson a bad coach because he couldn't get Karl Malone, Kobe, Shaq, Gary Payton, etc to win the year that he had all those guys on one team in LA? No.

Also, by this rationale, who has been a successful coach over the last 20 years? Not Coach K because all of his championship teams had great athletes who went on to have successful NBA careers?

Phil's a fine coach, but it's easier to win with great talent than it is without it. And Phil has never won without great talent. He's lost with great talent too, but you can't always win even with the best talent. I still remember the 1972 Olympic basketball final.

K has had successful players in the NBA more recently, but remember that back in the 1980s and early 1990s, the word on the street was: Don't go to Duke, because Duke is underrepresented in the NBA, and the players they send are soft. I never cared. K was winning lots of college basketball games while Carolina was sending James Worthy, Michael Jordan, Sam Perkins, etc. to NBA championships (and an NCAA title) with better raw talent. I thought (and still think) that speaks highly of K as a college basketball coach.

NSDukeFan
11-09-2009, 03:19 PM
Phil's a fine coach, but it's easier to win with great talent than it is without it. And Phil has never won without great talent. He's lost with great talent too, but you can't always win even with the best talent. I still remember the 1972 Olympic basketball final.

I disagreed strongly with your previous post, which others have made the best points about. I think you should have stopped right after Phil's a fine coach. There are many teams that have great talent every year in the NBA, but Phil has managed to win as many championships as anyone. Maybe he had the best talent each time, but the teams he coached to championships didn't win before or after he left.


K has had successful players in the NBA more recently, but remember that back in the 1980s and early 1990s, the word on the street was: Don't go to Duke, because Duke is underrepresented in the NBA, and the players they send are soft. I never cared. K was winning lots of college basketball games while Carolina was sending James Worthy, Michael Jordan, Sam Perkins, etc. to NBA championships (and an NCAA title) with better raw talent. I thought (and still think) that speaks highly of K as a college basketball coach.

I have to completely disagree here as well. Player development is also a part of coaching and helps achieve the great team results that Coach K has had.

CEF1959
11-09-2009, 05:52 PM
I can't disagree with any of that, although "player development" is just recruiting in college, and I'm distinquishing that from the other aspects of coaching. My point was just that it's easier to win if you have really talented athletes destined for the NBA from high school. It takes real coaching ability to win with less than NBA allstar material.

As several of you point out, there have been counter-examples: coaches with great talent who don't win. And there are some coaches who just win, though I'm not sure Phil Jackson is a perfect example. Maybe he is. Phil Jackson IS a good coach, better than average for sure. But let's face it: Who wouldn't have benefited from coaching Jordan and Pippen on one team, then Kobe and Shaq on another? Inside-Outside allstars. What a dream. Did he ever win with a team you would call relatively untalented? Maybe he would have. I don't know.

But I do know that really talented athletes make it to the NBA, and the best of those become allstars. And coaching players destined for the NBA offers a HUGE advantage for a college coach. In 1982, Carolina won the NCAA tourney with a team that featured Michael Jordan, Sam Perkins, and James Worthy. Maybe they took a Dean Smith to get them to the promised land, but I doubt it. On the other hand, winning at the college level with sub-superstar players is a sign of good coaching. And that's where K has shined.

K has always had good players, but they weren't typically superstar NBA players. Until the last half of his Duke career, K's Duke guys just weren't NBA allstar material. Laettner had a great NBA career, but made only one allstar appearance, as a reserve; Johnny Dawkins was outstanding, but never an NBA allstar. Duke's success in the NBA has been relatively more recent.

Meanwhile, Carolina had Stackhouse, Wallace, Jamison, in addition to Perkins, Jordan, and Worthy (etc. etc.), ALL of whom were allstars in the NBA.

But those Duke players of the 1980s and 1990s won at Duke, even before Grant Hill and Elton Brand. That tells me they were well-coached as college players.

OTOH, I don't think it was coaching that made the Carolina players listed above allstars. They were just incredible physical specimens. The role of the coach of such players is just to avoid getting in the way.

Like Phil Jackson.

darthur
11-09-2009, 06:17 PM
You are definitely under-selling Phil Jackson.

Here are your NBA champs in the post-MJ era:

- LA with Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol, and earlier with Shaq + Kobe
- Boston with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen
- San Antonio with Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, and Tony Parker, and earlier with David Robinson also
- Miami with Dwyane Wade and Shaq
- Detroit with Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, and Tayshaun Prince

The only line-up out there without a gimme for the hall of fame is Detroit, and their entire starting five is all-star level to compensate. The NBA is a star-dominated game. Every major contender has stars, so of course, Phil Jackson had stars when he won championships. So did everyone else.

Similarly, for college, go back and look at national champs over the past 10 years. You will see teams with 3-5 future NBA players on them. Coaches make a difference, but national championships almost always require serious talent on the floor as well.

Edouble
11-09-2009, 06:28 PM
But let's face it: Who wouldn't have benefited from coaching Jordan and Pippen on one team, then Kobe and Shaq on another?

Doug Collins? Del Harris?

CEF1959
11-09-2009, 06:58 PM
Similarly, for college, go back and look at national champs over the past 10 years. You will see teams with 3-5 future NBA players on them. Coaches make a difference, but national championships almost always require serious talent on the floor as well.

My point exactly. K historically has overachieved with the talent he's had. If you have 3-5 future NBA players on your team, who were NBA caliber before they were freshmen, your job as a college coach is much easier. K's teams, particularly in the 80s and90s, weren't like that. He had good solid players, rarely destined for NBA allstar careers, and coached them into consistently high NCAA teams. That's coaching.

Phil Jackson = good coach, and I didn't mean to tick off the Phil Jackson Fan Club. But he's been a coach who has been blessed with extraordinary talent on his teams. I give him credit for not blowing that, but it's still a fact. He was smart to take the jobs he did when he did. It made a good coach look like a god. Or maybe he is a god. If you say so, I'm fine with that.

BobbyFan
11-09-2009, 07:12 PM
Doug Collins? Del Harris?

Neither coached Pippen or Kobe when they were star caliber players.

NSDukeFan
11-09-2009, 09:09 PM
My point exactly. K historically has overachieved with the talent he's had. If you have 3-5 future NBA players on your team, who were NBA caliber before they were freshmen, your job as a college coach is much easier. K's teams, particularly in the 80s and90s, weren't like that. He had good solid players, rarely destined for NBA allstar careers, and coached them into consistently high NCAA teams. That's coaching.

Phil Jackson = good coach, and I didn't mean to tick off the Phil Jackson Fan Club. But he's been a coach who has been blessed with extraordinary talent on his teams. I give him credit for not blowing that, but it's still a fact. He was smart to take the jobs he did when he did. It made a good coach look like a god. Or maybe he is a god. If you say so, I'm fine with that.

I agree K is a wonderful coach, but his championship teams have had just as much talent (3-5 future NBA players) as other championship teams.

The difference between Phil Jackson and every other coach that has been blessed with extraordinary talent (and there are others, but there is only one champion each year) is the fact he has 10 championships.


I can't disagree with any of that, although "player development" is just recruiting in college, and I'm distinquishing that from the other aspects of coaching. My point was just that it's easier to win if you have really talented athletes destined for the NBA from high school. It takes real coaching ability to win with less than NBA allstar material.

The good thing is we both agree that Harrison Barnes will do great wherever he goes. You, because he is an NBA talent, that will excel without need of coaching; me, because whichever program he chooses will be a great program where a great coach will help him improve over the time he is at university. As someone who has benefited greatly from coaching when I played and tried to help others develop their skills and knowledge, player development is a heckuva lot more than recruiting.

HaveFunExpectToWin
11-09-2009, 10:41 PM
How about Haywood pulling down 19 rebounds? Anybody ever think he would become such a solid NBA player?

I'll admit I didn't.

I'd say that most Washington fans are still wondering when it'll happen.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-09-2009, 10:45 PM
Talent wins... and good coaching keeps you from losing.

On TH...My take on him is that he is just one of those players who plays. It's hard to understand how he gets it done, it's not pretty, but he gets it done. If you've played in a decent quality pickup game, there is a guy on the floor like that almost every single time.

He has a knack for getting inside your space, and he has the strength and will to stay there. Players matching up with him rarely find a groove. When he gets to the spot on the floor he wants, it's his most of the time. He beats the lazy , more talented players to that spot. He keeps his knees bent, wide stance (insert joke) and likes the busted lips he gets. He puts you on your heels (no pun intended) and forces defenders reach and slap, and he gets fouled, alot. He frustrates players into at least three fouls a game or more. He has a nice shooting touch, very good hands in traffic, and can stay focused on the rim when he's off balance to finish.

In short, he's Brian Cardnial on steriods...a player... no matter where he went to school.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-09-2009, 11:01 PM
I'd say that most Washington fans are still wondering when it'll happen.

They can wonder no longer...November 6th, 2009 (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=291106011)against TH and the Pacers.

Haven't been following him, but that caught my eye.

Duvall
11-09-2009, 11:16 PM
They can wonder no longer...November 6th, 2009 (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=291106011)against TH and the Pacers.

After eight years of sub-mediocrity, it's going to take a lot more proof than that.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-09-2009, 11:50 PM
After eight years of sub-mediocrity, it's going to take a lot more proof than that.

I hear ya...I'm not sure about the sub part, but can agree with the mediocrity level of his career to this point.

In fairness to him, he has been a starter,(I think, someone correct if I'm wrong), for most of his time in the league. That's pretty solid and I quess makes him one of the top 30 centers in the world. More than I ever expected of him when I remember first seeing him as a freshman, which was the only point I wanted to make back there.

jv001
11-10-2009, 10:08 AM
On TH...My take on him is that he is just one of those players who plays. It's hard to understand how he gets it done, it's not pretty, but he gets it done. If you've played in a decent quality pickup game, there is a guy on the floor like that almost every single time.

When he gets to the spot on the floor he wants, it's his most of the time. He beats the lazy , more talented players to that spot. He has a nice shooting touch, very good hands in traffic, and can stay focused on the rim when he's off balance to finish.

In short, he's Brian Cardnial on steriods...a player... no matter where he went to school.

hans uses his strength as good as anyone. I agree the one great thing he does; he stays focused when he gets contact and puts the ball in the hoop. I wish our guys could do that. Miles, Lance and Zoubs are big enough and strong enough to take that punishment and make the basket. However they miss way too many shots around the rim. I'm hoping that this year that is not the case. Now I don't want our bigs to travel like hans, because the refs will blow the whistle on them. unc gets all the calls lol. Go Duke!

CEF1959
11-10-2009, 01:19 PM
I agree K is a wonderful coach, but his championship teams have had just as much talent (3-5 future NBA players) as other championship teams.

I respectfully disagree that he's had the same NBA talent. K has had 7 Naismith College POTYs in the past 25 years, but only two of them played in an NBA allstar game, neither as a starter, and neither for more than one year. Carolina, OTOH, has only had 3 Naismith winners in that period, but has had at least a half-dozen NBA allstars and other NBA title winners. Both have won 3 NCAA titles in the period.

That tells me that K does more with less, excelling as a college basketball coach, rather than as a mere recruiter of NBA athletes. Not that the latter isn't an important skill, but it's not the same as being a great college coach.


The difference between Phil Jackson and every other coach that has been blessed with extraordinary talent (and there are others, but there is only one champion each year) is the fact he has 10 championships.


Well, Red Auerbach won 16, and John Wooden won 10 NCAA titles. But both had the cream of the crop in terms of talent, as did Phil Jackson. Who else has had the benefit of coaching Kobe and Shaq on one team and Michael and Scotty on another? Heck, Bill Fitch looked like a genius too when he had Bird and Parish in the 1980s.

NSDukeFan
11-10-2009, 02:18 PM
I respectfully disagree that he's had the same NBA talent. K has had 7 Naismith College POTYs in the past 25 years, but only two of them played in an NBA allstar game, neither as a starter, and neither for more than one year. Carolina, OTOH, has only had 3 Naismith winners in that period, but has had at least a half-dozen NBA allstars and other NBA title winners. Both have won 3 NCAA titles in the period.

If you just want to compare K's talent when he won championships to UNC and not to all the other NCAA championship teams, I can see your argument that K hasn't recruited Michael Jordan.

Besides that I have to again strongly disagree. You cannot tell me Christian Laettner (1 time all-star), Bobby Hurley (unfortunately career ended prematurely), Grant Hill (multiple time all-star including leading vote getter, so obviously a starter), Elton Brand (all-star), Shane Battier (all-defensive team performer and great non-stat performer and team leader), Jay Williams (unfortunately career ended prematurely), Michael Dunleavy (potential all-star if he can stay healthy), Carlos Boozer (all-star), Corey Maggette (sometime 20 ppg scorer), etc. are not talented. That's at least 4 all-stars, including a leading vote getter, though others have been injured and didn't get a chance to reach their potential. There is no way you can convince me that Jay Williams would not have developed into an NBA all-star.


That tells me that K does more with less, excelling as a college basketball coach, rather than as a mere recruiter of NBA athletes. Not that the latter isn't an important skill, but it's not the same as being a great college coach.

I completely agree K is more than just a great recruiter, but he is a fantastic recruiter and has had as many top recruits as any coach in the past 20 years. He is a great recruiter, a great blender of the talents of the players he has, great at helping players improve, etc. I would love to see you show me how he has had less talent than other championship teams. I don't believe it compared to just UNC's title teams like your above example, and I definitely don't believe it, compared to various other championship teams.



Well, Red Auerbach won 16, and John Wooden won 10 NCAA titles. But both had the cream of the crop in terms of talent, as did Phil Jackson. Who else has had the benefit of coaching Kobe and Shaq on one team and Michael and Scotty on another? Heck, Bill Fitch looked like a genius too when he had Bird and Parish in the 1980s.
You do realize who are considered the greatest basketball coaches of all time, right? Auerbach (who won 9 championships as coach, the rest were as GM and/or president), Wooden, and Jackson are all on the short list. I'm not saying they didn't have talent, but they are not the only coaches who have.

Sorry, I realize I have contributed to hijacking this thread, so I will briefly go back on topic.
Tyler H., great first game, don't think he is an all-star yet and maybe never will be. I have always thought he would be a solid pro, but I am not sure we can decide for sure either way after one game. As to the relevance of this topic, I feel it is quite relevant based on the length of discussions here about his pro prospects before he went pro. I understand the timing was poor, but I don't think that was Wheat's intent and I have certainly appreciated his perspective on this board.

juise
11-10-2009, 02:22 PM
K has had 7 Naismith College POTYs in the past 25 years, but only two of them played in an NBA allstar game, neither as a starter, and neither for more than one year.

I'm not sure how I feel about your overall point, but I think it's worth mentioning that K has had a total of 4 NBA all-stars (that come to mind). I realize that you were referencing Naismith vs. NBA All-Stars, but you gave Carolina credit for their all-stars who didn't win Naismith awards... I thought we should even that playing field a little.


Laettner
Hill
Brand
Boozer

chrisM
11-10-2009, 03:16 PM
I'd say that most Washington fans are still wondering when it'll happen.

It can't be that much of a surprise: in his 8th game as a rookie (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200112110MEM.html), he grabbed 15 rebounds. His previous career high was 16, not terribly far from the 18 he just had.

The big problem with Haywood, dating back to when I first saw him his freshman year at UNC, has been consistency. He will have too many nights with <5 rebounds (e.g. http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200311250POR.html- 0 rebounds in 16 minutes). When he is out there battling hard and boxing out, he is really good. For too many games he doesn't.

Chris

Troublemaker
11-10-2009, 03:18 PM
On TH...My take on him is that he is just one of those players who plays. It's hard to understand how he gets it done, it's not pretty, but he gets it done.

There's no denying TH's intangibles, which are truly terrific, but at the same time, I think his lack of talent is somewhat overplayed as well. It's not all hustle and desire. I know he tested out quite well athletically at the NBA pre-draft camp, and he was quick enough in college, even at his size, to effectively guard Kyle Singler on the perimeter, even drawing a couple of charges on Kyle last season. Clearly, he also has excellent hand-eye coordination because he could consistently put the ball in the basket and make catches in the post in traffic while being banged.

I think TH will be a good pro, both because he has excellent "heart" and "toughness" but also because he was blessed with good size and athleticism.

CEF1959
11-10-2009, 04:13 PM
I wish we had had TH on our team the last four years. There, I said it.

And don't forget, guys, that Duke under K didn't start with Grant Hill. He was a big time winner in colllege basketball before he started recruiting NBA allstars. I give him a lot of credit for that, even if others don't.

Dukeford
11-10-2009, 07:56 PM
Josh McRoberts is same height as Hansbrough, maybe even an inch taller, or at least has a higher reach. Josh probably has higher vertical jump, and would probably beat Hans in a 100 yd dash. So he's more athletic, and I think he was more highly regarded as a college recruit.

He seemed to have very good passing and ball handling skills at Duke. His biggest problem was obviously lack of maturity

Now they are on the same team. And McRoberts has a couple of years of experience with NBA caliber players.

So in his 1st available game, Hans plays well and looks to be headed for a very good rookie season. At the same time, McRoberts is deep on the bench and will probably continue to play in about 1 out of every 3 games, as usual.

I just don't understand why McRoberts is such a scrub??
Is he just lazy? Or does something just not click with him?

Wheat/"/"/"
11-10-2009, 08:30 PM
Josh McRoberts is same height as Hansbrough, maybe even an inch taller, or at least has a higher reach. Josh probably has higher vertical jump, and would probably beat Hans in a 100 yd dash. So he's more athletic, and I think he was more highly regarded as a college recruit.

He seemed to have very good passing and ball handling skills at Duke. His biggest problem was obviously lack of maturity

Now they are on the same team. And McRoberts has a couple of years of experience with NBA caliber players.

So in his 1st available game, Hans plays well and looks to be headed for a very good rookie season. At the same time, McRoberts is deep on the bench and will probably continue to play in about 1 out of every 3 games, as usual.

I just don't understand why McRoberts is such a scrub??
Is he just lazy? Or does something just not click with him?

He lacks the "intangibles" Troublemaker speaks of...

Newton_14
11-10-2009, 08:30 PM
They can wonder no longer...November 6th, 2009 (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=291106011)against TH and the Pacers.

Haven't been following him, but that caught my eye.

And from that same boxscore:

Dahntay Jones
18 points on 6 for 11 shooting, 5 Rebounds, 5 Assists, 2 Steals, 1 Block and a +/- of +19

Haywood had a +/- of -5, Hans had a +5

Dahntay has really improved his game.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-10-2009, 08:37 PM
There's no denying TH's intangibles, which are truly terrific, but at the same time, I think his lack of talent is somewhat overplayed as well. It's not all hustle and desire. I know he tested out quite well athletically at the NBA pre-draft camp, and he was quick enough in college, even at his size, to effectively guard Kyle Singler on the perimeter, even drawing a couple of charges on Kyle last season. Clearly, he also has excellent hand-eye coordination because he could consistently put the ball in the basket and make catches in the post in traffic while being banged.

I think TH will be a good pro, both because he has excellent "heart" and "toughness" but also because he was blessed with good size and athleticism.

Agreed. He is not an "exceptional" athlete, he's not "explosive", but TH is much more athletic than most think. And he has above average talent.

Same with other players we're familiar with like Reddick, and Scheyer.

They'll never be the first players anyone thinks of when you say name an athletic player, but they are all very athletic, compared to the average college player, and it's probably a little unfair to them to infer otherwise.

Nobody gets to the level these guys play at without being athletes.

You hit the key word here for me ... "intangibles". He has them, and it's that quirky ability to get players off balance, sense it, and then attack into that lack of balance, or get inside their comfort zone...along with the ability to finish the off-balance bump in the post himself, that is hard to quantify.

I see that he plays again tomorrow night at Golden State. Anyone know where it can be seen on the Web?

Wheat/"/"/"
11-10-2009, 08:42 PM
And from that same boxscore:

Dahntay Jones
18 points on 6 for 11 shooting, 5 Rebounds, 5 Assists, 2 Steals, 1 Block and a +/- of +19

Haywood had a +/- of -5, Hans had a +5

Dahntay has really improved his game.

Dahntay has become the "glue" guy it seems for the Pacers. Everytime I read something on them lately it seems he has played well.

chrisM
11-10-2009, 10:10 PM
Agreed. He is not an "exceptional" athlete, he's not "explosive", but TH is much more athletic than most think. And he has above average talent.

Same with other players we're familiar with like Reddick, and Scheyer.

They'll never be the first players anyone thinks of when you say name an athletic player, but they are all very athletic, compared to the average college player, and it's probably a little unfair to them to infer otherwise.


A lot of these 'hard working' versus 'athletic/talented' stuff gets close to racial lines: ask yourself how many times is someone like Nolan Smith referred to (by announcers, not knowledgeable fans like one finds here) as a 'gym rat', even though he practically grew up in the gym after his father died? Yet I recall Paulus' being referred to in that way (his frosh year), even though in high school he obviously spent quite a bit of time on the gridiron- I remember angrily yelling at the TV when $Some_Color_Guy said it.

This is most obvious with white wide receivers in the NFL, of course. No matter how fast they are, it's 'deceptive speed,' and no matter how many drops they commit, they have 'soft hands- a possession receiver.'

Note: I am not saying that anyone here is doing that. I certainly haven't observed that here. I'm saying that it is the media perception of people.

Chris

SMO
11-12-2009, 09:05 AM
Figured I'd start this thread so Wheat could keep us informed of Hans' progress toward his first NBA MVP award.

In just his 2nd NBA game, the mighty Hans scored 11pts and pulled down 8 boards. Oh yeah, he also shot 3-12 from the field, 5-8 from the line, and had 5 fouls in his 16 minutes. 12 shots and 5 fouls in 16 minutes? Glad to see he ain't afraid to shoot! He's got some ground to make up on Lebron and Kobe but I'm not counting him out.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-12-2009, 09:32 AM
Figured I'd start this thread so Wheat could keep us informed of Hans' progress toward his first NBA MVP award.

In just his 2nd NBA game, the mighty Hans scored 11pts and pulled down 8 boards. Oh yeah, he also shot 3-12 from the field, 5-8 from the line, and had 5 fouls in his 16 minutes. 12 shots and 5 fouls in 16 minutes? Glad to see he ain't afraid to shoot! He's got some ground to make up on Lebron and Kobe but I'm not counting him out.

Well, if you won't, I'll count him out for the MVP award :)

I tried to watch some of that game online, but the streaming was so bad I gave up. Looked like he got into early foul trouble and never found any rythem. But, you're right, he's not shy about taking it to them in the NBA ...damn the torpedo's, full speed ahead is his MO.

moonpie23
11-12-2009, 09:35 AM
he's still learning the game y'all....remember, Mj wasn't MJ when he first got in the league either...


give him some time....

bhd28
11-12-2009, 09:44 AM
That's true. Jordan was held to only 28.2ppg his rookie year. Pathetic. I don't know why he even showed up at the arena.

natedog4ever
11-12-2009, 09:54 AM
I must say - wow, he has been truly Jordanesque in his young career.

In other news, I tuned into the Orlando game just in time to hear the announcers discussing what a good NBA pro JJ had become, starting in the playoffs and carrying over into this season. And they said that was regardless of whether his shot was falling on any given night.

jv001
11-12-2009, 10:00 AM
That's true. Jordan was held to only 28.2ppg his rookie year. Pathetic. I don't know why he even showed up at the arena.

I guess this further shows that mj's best defender was dean smith in college. Now wasn't ole roy one of deano's pupils? Wonder if ole roy would be Harrison's Barnes best defender? Think about it HB. Go Duke!

MChambers
11-12-2009, 10:37 AM
I guess this further shows that mj's best defender was dean smith in college. Now wasn't ole roy one of deano's pupils? Wonder if ole roy would be Harrison's Barnes best defender? Think about it HB. Go Duke!

The joke always was the El Deaon was the greatest defensive coach of all time, because he was the only one who could Jordan under 20 points a game.

MChambers
11-12-2009, 10:41 AM
Actually, Hansbrough has a great opportunity with the Pacers, who are basically starting four guards and Hibbert. Grainger and Dahntay are the starting forwards, and neither one is all that big. Of course, McRoberts has the same opportunity, and can't get off the bench.

Lord Ash
11-12-2009, 11:00 AM
Do we seriously need another Tyler Hans thread? Especially given the struggles that JJ had in his first few years in the league, I think maybe skipping the thread and just keeping our own eyes on his stats might be the way to go.

jws
11-12-2009, 11:11 AM
Didn't see the game, but as expected, it appears Tyler is having to make adjustments to the league, as the league is having to make adjustments to him.

I'd say that 3-12 is pretty bad shooting, but also that 8 rebounds and getting to the FT line 8 times(most on the team) in 16 minutes are great stats.

But stats are just stats, and one would have to see the game to know how good or bad any of those stats really were, insofar as it pertained to the success of the team.

SMO
11-12-2009, 11:21 AM
Do we seriously need another Tyler Hans thread? Especially given the struggles that JJ had in his first few years in the league, I think maybe skipping the thread and just keeping our own eyes on his stats might be the way to go.

No, we don't, but I had a nice big bowl of sarcasm for breakfast and thought I'd share.

alteran
11-12-2009, 11:48 AM
Do we seriously need another Tyler Hans thread? Especially given the struggles that JJ had in his first few years in the league, I think maybe skipping the thread and just keeping our own eyes on his stats might be the way to go.

Wrong, Lord Ash. Totally wrong. I think I speak for the majority of Duke Basketball fans when I say that four years of hearing about Tyler Hansbro was nowhere near enough.

Now that the PPB is gone, maybe the mods could grace us with a Tyler Hansbro Board (THB) here at the Duke Basketball Report, so we can all keep up with his comings and goings-- bball career, personal life, acting, etc. Maybe we could hear about his pets? Did he watch the Country Music awards last night, or is he more of a rap guy?

I don't know about the other Dukies here, but I just didn't get enough news about him living here in Durham with the UNC-obsessed local media. It's like there was an informational blackout on Tyler Hansblo for his entire college career. My understanding is that there are still some single-celled lifeforms within 12,000 miles of Chapa Heeya that are unaware of his superhuman exploits. Why, I think...

Oops, I think I just sprained my spleen.

Bostondevil
11-12-2009, 12:23 PM
I just went over to Inside Carolina out of curiosity. There are no threads about how well Shelden Williams is playing. There is one complaining about Jason Williams being a homer. There is also one about Gerald Henderson getting dunked on.

Wheat, I think it's only fair if you're going to come here and post about Tyler Friggin' Hansborough, you owe it to the rest of us to post a (positive) thread about an NBA Dukie on Inside Carolina. Or somebody else who is registered over there should do it.

I haven't registered, nor will I, because I don't think I could play nice. Nor would I want to. But I STILL have to read about Tyler Friggin' Hansborough here, so, I'd like there to be some sort of equal time.

I know, I know, I could just not read the thread but I can't make the thread title go away.

Finally, the fact that there are multiple relatively positive/neutral/fair threads about Tyler Friggin' Hansborough here proves that Duke fans are superior (and we get an extremely bad rap). I blame Stuart Scott. Now there's a homer.

davekay1971
11-12-2009, 12:23 PM
I agree with alteran. Living in Charlotte, it was as if Tyler Hansbrough didn't exist the last four years. There was absolutely no coverage in the local media on sports talk radio. The Carolina fans who called in on talk radio never even mentioned the poor guy. I can't tell you how shocked I was to find out he'd won those All-ACC awards, because it was never, NEVER, mentioned around here. I would have to suffer through a whole ACC basketball game, like, a Duke-Ga Tech one, for example, and be limited to just two or three Tyler Hansbrough segments in the broadcast. The announcers would freeze the guy out. And in Carolina games, it was as if the team was Danny Green, Ty Lawson, Wayne Ellington and, oh yeah, some big white guy in the middle that maybe the announcers would remember to mention occassionally. Pathetic.

Until the NBA started, I had to resort to watching his awesome save-the-dog commercial on Youtube to get my Hansbrough fix. If DBR can, in any way, keep me abreast of the young career of The Greatest (and yes, if it had been Hansbrough fighting Ali in The Rumble in the Jungle, Hansbrough would have whipped Ali's rear), I'll just be SOOOOOOOOO thankful!

whereinthehellami
11-12-2009, 01:28 PM
How many flops and travels did he have?

shoutingncu
11-12-2009, 01:39 PM
Finally, the fact that there are multiple relatively positive/neutral/fair threads about Tyler Friggin' Hansborough here proves that Duke fans are superior (and we get an extremely bad rap). I blame Stuart Scott. Now there's a homer.

While I respectfully decline comment on fan superiority (don't necessarily disagree, but definitely decline comment), I firmly believe that DBR has a superior message board to IC, and genuinely thank you all for that.

Troublemaker
11-12-2009, 01:46 PM
I assume no one is going to terribly mind if I start merging these Hansbrough threads. I'm neither dissuading nor persuading more discussion of TH but I think it makes sense to have a mega-thread for him instead of a new thread every time he plays a game or makes a commercial.

Bostondevil
11-12-2009, 01:55 PM
While I respectfully decline comment on fan superiority (don't necessarily disagree, but definitely decline comment), I firmly believe that DBR has a superior message board to IC, and genuinely thank you all for that.

I forgot the emoticon. Here - ;) That makes everything OK, right? ;)

shoutingncu
11-12-2009, 02:38 PM
I forgot the emoticon. Here - ;) That makes everything OK, right? ;)

Oh, I didn't think you needed any... :).

I just wanted to take the opportunity to praise the DBR community.

Bostondevil
11-12-2009, 02:55 PM
I didn't either, I'm just foolin' around. It is the Tyler Friggin' Hansborough thread, after all.

Bostondevil
11-12-2009, 02:56 PM
I suggest that from now on, we refer to him as TFH cause I'm friggin' tired of typing Hansborough. Who's with me?

DukeBlueNikeShox
11-12-2009, 06:17 PM
I'm curious, does anyone know what kind of underwear TFH wears?! Is he a boxers or briefs guy?! I mean, I had a hard time finding the answer on the internet, but I'm sure somebody on this board would know....

speedevil2001
11-12-2009, 06:27 PM
Figured I'd start this thread so Wheat could keep us informed of Hans' progress toward his first NBA MVP award.

In just his 2nd NBA game, the mighty Hans scored 11pts and pulled down 8 boards. Oh yeah, he also shot 3-12 from the field, 5-8 from the line, and had 5 fouls in his 16 minutes. 12 shots and 5 fouls in 16 minutes? Glad to see he ain't afraid to shoot! He's got some ground to make up on Lebron and Kobe but I'm not counting him out.

how about comparing G's rookie season vs. Tylers!

juise
11-12-2009, 11:21 PM
I don't want to start another thread to talk about an Wolfie alum, so I figured I would derail the TFH thread.

JJ Hickson is averaging 2.3ppg this season on 36% shooting in 9mpg. Tonight, on national TV, he started against the Heat and scored a career-high 18 points on 7-9 from the field. He also posted the best +/- on the team in their road victory. Well done, Mr. Hickson.

Bostondevil
11-13-2009, 01:41 AM
Best thing about the Celtics this year (besides KG)? Shelden!!!! Even Tommy Heinsohn has noticed. He can't stop talking about Williams. He loves him.

Worst thing about the the Celtics this year? Do I even have to say it? Sheed. I've even caught myself rooting for him a few times. I can't help it. He and Shelden are often on the floor together too. I'll give them both props, they play well together. They tend to feed each other baskets.

Bostondevil
11-13-2009, 01:43 AM
I don't want to start another thread to talk about an Wolfie alum, so I figured I would derail the TFH thread.

JJ Hickson is averaging 2.3ppg this season on 36% shooting in 9mpg. Tonight, on national TV, he started against the Heat and scored a career-high 18 points on 7-9 from the field. He also posted the best +/- on the team in their road victory. Well done, Mr. Hickson.

When I was a kid growing up in Durham, State fans and Duke fans used to band together against the common enemy. Now I think that's not the case. Sigh. But I still root for State when they aren't playing Duke and I root for Wolfies in the NBA, so, post away!

And thanks for adopting the TFH nickname. It makes me feel like I've accomplished something in my life!

moonpie23
11-13-2009, 07:59 AM
B Sheed. I've even caught myself rooting for him a few times. I can't help it.


oh no you DIDN'T !!!!!


ugh

Bostondevil
11-13-2009, 12:19 PM
oh no you DIDN'T !!!!!


ugh

I know! I'm a Celtics fan too, it's horrible.

SMO
11-15-2009, 09:24 AM
I know! I'm a Celtics fan too, it's horrible.

Tyler's team won but a couple Duke guys (Dahntay & Shelden) put up some much better numbers in this contest. Check out the highlight below at about the 0:20 second mark. Not sure who the "MVP" of the game was:p

http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=291114011