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JasonEvans
11-10-2009, 04:04 PM
Harrison coming to Duke will ensure Coach K will be the winningest Coach ever.

Ummm, while Harrison is a nice recruit, I don't think his presence alone will have much of an impact on K's final coaching record. Sure, he might be worth some extra wins, but K is likely to smash Knight's record by such a large margin that 10 or so extra wins are not going to make all that much of a difference.


He is 40+ wins behind Coach Knight, and this year's team will win around 30.

If by 40+ you mean 69, then you are correct. I believe K has 833 career wins while Knight is career leader at 902. It would make me quite happy if K could bust through Knight's record in the next 2 seasons.


We know Coach K will be at the helm for at least as long Kyrie and Harrison are here, therefore, winning his way way past Knight. Can Billy D stay away from the pros long enough to pass him? Josh Pastner may be the only other one with a chance.

Lets say K gets to only 1000 career wins -- which would be his likely total if he coaches 5-6 more seasons and retired at 67 or 68. Many folks expect him to go longer than that, but lets put that 1000 figure up there as the mark.

Donovan is 44 and has 282 career wins. If he coaches until he is 70, that would be 26 more years. He would need to average better than 27 wins per season to get to 1000 in that case. It is worth noting at this point that Donovan has only won more than 27 games in a season 3 times in his career. In fact, if you take out the back-to-back championship seasons, Donovan's career at Florida is not really all that special. That may sound funny, but my point is that -- unlike the other top coaches in college basketball -- Donovan does not habitually have his teams in the top ten every year. Expecting him to consistently put up 27+ win seasons when he simply does not have a history of doing that seems like a stretch.

Interesting that you mention Josh Pastner. The dude is 32 years old and has exactly zero wins to his credit. The only thing he has on his side right now is his young age. Lets revisit this one once he has a track record as a head coach.

The guy who I think is most likely to break whatever mark it is that K sets is one of K's former PGs-- Jeff Capel. He is 34 and already has 148 wins. If he coaches until he is 70, he would only need to average 23.6 wins per season to get to 1000. His career at Oklahoma is still very young, but based on his track record, 23 wins a year seems extremely doable. Heck, I would expect 25+ wins per season for him based on how well his recruiting has gone lately.


Back to recruiting, wonder how many recruits will take unofficial visits to Duke the weekend of Feb 12, when:

"Over 300 former players, managers, coaches and trainers, spanning the past 70+ years of Duke Basketball, will be invited back for the celebration"

of Coach K's 1000th game.

http://bluedevilnation.net/2009/11/former-duke-players-will-return-in-droves-for-coach-ks-1000th-game/

I'll bet Austin and Doc Rivers will be there. (NBA all star weekend)

Hopefully Harrison will be there to soak in the atmosphere of his new family.

Actually, the celebration is of K's 1000th game at Duke. K coached his 1000th overall game a couple years ago.

--Jason "hmmmm-- methinks I am going to move this out of the Barnes thread, feels like it belongs elsewhere" Evans

CEF1959
11-10-2009, 04:17 PM
HB won't mean much to this. A few games here and there. K will become the all time winningest men's NCAA D1 B-ball coach of all time in mid-2012 (did I get that right? I didn't redo the math). He just needs to outlast Calhoun and Boeheim and hope that Bobby Knight doesn't come back and coach until he's 150.

Oh, and you'll still have to deal with the Pat Summit fans.

91devil
11-10-2009, 04:24 PM
I think Bill Self is a more serious threat than Billy Donovan (a few years older, but more wins right now).

JasonEvans
11-10-2009, 04:38 PM
HB won't mean much to this. A few games here and there. K will become the all time winningest men's NCAA D1 B-ball coach of all time in mid-2012 (did I get that right? I didn't redo the math). He just needs to outlast Calhoun and Boeheim and hope that Bobby Knight doesn't come back and coach until he's 150.

Oh, and you'll still have to deal with the Pat Summit fans.

Calhoun is 67, 5 years older than K, and is 28 wins behind K. If he makes it his mission to pass K then he could hang on until his late 70s and try to outlast K, but I think that is highly unlikely. We are talking about a guy who has had a couple health scares in recent years. Also, his program is still under investigation for what could be a nasty scandal involving the recruitment of Nate Miles and a former UConn manager who became an agent and appears to have been funneling money to recruits.

Boeheim is a far more likely challenger. He is 33 wins behind K but is only 64. He too would merely need to hang on one or two (likely two, as K will probably stretch the 33 win advantage into the 40s over the next half decade) seasons after K retires. Does he want to coach that long? No way to know. It may also be worth mentioning that he and K are quite close, having coached together on Team USA the past several years, and he may not want to stick around just to beat his friend's record.

--Jason "Bobby Knight ain't coming back" Evans

JasonEvans
11-10-2009, 04:44 PM
I think Bill Self is a more serious threat than Billy Donovan (a few years older, but more wins right now).

Oooooh, he is a good challenger to mention. 46 years old and a total of 376 wins. If we use the same math as the other guys (K has 1000 wins and Self coaches until he is 70) then he only needs to average 26 wins per season to get there. Considering he has averaged 32.33 wins over the past 3 years and looks to have another 30+ victory season this year, he is a strong candidate.

I'd rate the challengers thusly--

1. Self
2. Capel
3. Boeheim
4. Donovan
5. Calhoun

--Jason "anyone else worth considering at this point?" Evans

BlueintheFace
11-10-2009, 04:55 PM
Oooooh, he is a good challenger to mention. 46 years old and a total of 376 wins. If we use the same math as the other guys (K has 1000 wins and Self coaches until he is 70) then he only needs to average 26 wins per season to get there. Considering he has averaged 32.33 wins over the past 3 years and looks to have another 30+ victory season this year, he is a strong candidate.

I'd rate the challengers thusly--

1. Self
2. Capel
3. Boeheim
4. Donovan
5. Calhoun

--Jason "anyone else worth considering at this point?" Evans

-Roy likes Golf too much.

-maybe Brad Stevens at Butler. He's just so stinking young.

airowe
11-10-2009, 04:58 PM
Calhoun is 67, 5 years older than K, and is 28 wins behind K. If he makes it his mission to pass K then he could hang on until his late 70s and try to outlast K, but I think that is highly unlikely. We are talking about a guy who has had a couple health scares in recent years. Also, his program is still under investigation for what could be a nasty scandal involving the recruitment of Nate Miles and a former UConn manager who became an agent and appears to have been funneling money to recruits.

Boeheim is a far more likely challenger. He is 33 wins behind K but is only 64. He too would merely need to hang on one or two (likely two, as K will probably stretch the 33 win advantage into the 40s over the next half decade) seasons after K retires. Does he want to coach that long? No way to know. It may also be worth mentioning that he and K are quite close, having coached together on Team USA the past several years, and he may not want to stick around just to beat his friend's record.

--Jason "Bobby Knight ain't coming back" Evans

Interesting note on Boeheim, he was on Dan Patrick Show this morning talking about the 800th win. He said there's no way he'll ever pass Coach K because K's going to coach for at least 10 more years and he can't believe the energy and excitement K has for the game at his age.

Boeheim said K will have over 1100 wins by the time he's done. Hope he's right!

Listen here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/85661/index.html

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-10-2009, 05:05 PM
I'm can see Donovan doing it maybe self, If Capel continues to get better he can do it as well and if anyone does it i hope it's capel.

Olympic Fan
11-10-2009, 05:13 PM
I like the line from the Gumball Rally, when the Italian race car driver rips down the rear-view mirror and says, "I never worry about what's behind me."

NOBODY is gaining on K -- not over any sustained period. He's coached more wins in the last decade than any coach in any decade in history.

Right now, our sights should be set on what's ahead if him. Actually, he's not likely to move up the career list this season (he's already 4th place).

Next season (2010-11) he almost certainly passes No. 3 Adolph Rupp and No. 2 Dean Smith. He'll finish that season close to 900 wins -- maybe a few less, probably a few more. The next year (2011-12), he'll zoom past Knight (assuming Knight doesn't return to the coaching ranks).

After that, we can sit back and watch how far out there K pushes the record -- 1,000 wins? 1,100 wins?

When he hangs it up, then we can pull out the binoculars and look back and see who is out there with a chance to close the gap.

As for Boeheim and Calhoun -- they are both older than K and have less wins. Unless he runs into an unexpected health issue or an even more unexpected loss of enthusiasm, then neither will catch him.

JasonEvans
11-10-2009, 05:19 PM
-Roy likes Golf too much.

-maybe Brad Stevens at Butler. He's just so stinking young.

Roy is 59 and has 595 wins. So, he is 3 years younger than K but 200+ wins behind. He would have to coach at least 7 years after K retires, which just seems really unlikely unless K hangs it up unexpectedly early.

Brad Stevens is 33 and has done an amazing job at Butler. He has 56 wins in his two seasons there, an average of 28 wins per season. They would appear to be on course to something similar to that this year too.

But, compare him to Capel. Capel is 1 year older and about 100 wins ahead of Stevens. It is also worth noting that Capel is already at a major conference school and doing quite well there. There is a big difference in putting up big win totals and contending for Final Fours at a BCS conference versus being at a smaller school. The odds are excellent that a major conference power will come looking at Brad Stevens some time in the very near future. At that point, his career would take a very uncertain turn that could lead to a lifetime of uninterrupted coaching at a big program or could lead to troubles. Capel has already passed that turn in the road and is still sailing along. Plenty of young hotshot coaches have been eaten up by that turn.

Does that make sense?

--Jason "loving this conversation-- good way to pass the time until games and Barnes" Evans

JasonEvans
11-10-2009, 10:46 PM
To pass the time, do we need a poll here? Who is the most likely coach to pass Coach K for all-time wins?

We've had some names of contenders. Anyone got any others?

-Jason

91devil
11-10-2009, 11:30 PM
I think Bob Huggins, Thad Matta and, gasp, John Calipari also need to be mentioned in the conversation.

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-11-2009, 12:25 AM
John Callipari is in no way going to pass K for wins. Half are going to be vacated and hopefully schools stop wanting him.

brevity
11-11-2009, 10:16 AM
To pass the time, do we need a poll here? Who is the most likely coach to pass Coach K for all-time wins?

We've had some names of contenders. Anyone got any others?

A poll is a good idea. Let's stick with head coaching wins in men's college basketball. I would recommend including the coach's current job, age, and wins (as of the end of last season).

So far we have:

Bob Knight (retired, 69, 902)
Jim Calhoun (Connecticut, 67, 805)
Jim Boeheim (Syracuse, 64, 799)
Bob Huggins (West Virginia, 56, 637)
Roy Williams (North Carolina, 59, 594)
John Calipari (Kentucky, 50, 403)
Bill Self (Kansas, 46, 376)
Billy Donovan (Florida, 44, 282)
Thad Matta (Ohio State, 42, 229)
Jeff Capel (Oklahoma, 34, 148)
Brad Stevens (Butler, 33, 56)

We could add:

Travis Ford (Oklahoma State, 39, 213?)
If that win total is correct, he belongs on the above list more than a few names already there.

Mark Few (Gonzaga, 46, 264)
I think he compares favorably with Donovan, considering that he's good for 25+ wins a season, and shows no signs of slowing down or changing jobs.

Rick Barnes (Texas, 55, 472)
Not too far off the curve with the guys mentioned above. Has the benefit and burden of competing in the Big 12 with Self, Capel, and Ford.

Tubby Smith (Minnesota, 58, 429)
When he brought the Gophers to Vegas for a tournament, he looked great. Like, 20 years younger. Leaving Kentucky can have that effect. But I don't know enough about the man to speculate if he'd stick around another couple of decades. Bear in mind that his son Saul is one of his assistants, and some nepotism/grooming could be taking place.

Bo Ryan (Wisconsin, 61, 556)
I'm sure I was asleep for most of those wins. Wisconsin is the most boring team ever. Theoretically, this guy could pass Coach K and no one would even notice.

Herb Sendek (Arizona State, 46, 283)
When he wasn't beating UNC, I'm sure I was sleeping during these wins too.

Mark Fox (Georgia, 40, 123)
Sean Miller (Arizona, 40, 120)
Same age as Tony Bennett, who has 69 wins. Just a shade better positioned than the guys below.

Tom Izzo (Michigan State, 54, 336)
Ben Howland (UCLA, 52, 309)
Mike Brey (Notre Dame, 50, 287)
Tom Crean (Indiana, 43, 196)
John Thompson III (Georgetown, 43, 184)
Jamie Dixon (Pittsburgh, 43, 163)
These guys aren't quite in the conversation. Their offense? "Wasting" too much time as an assistant. How dare they!

Lute Olson (retired, 75, 781)
Gary Williams (Maryland, 64, 625)
Rick Pitino (Louisville, 57, 553)
Mike Montgomery (California, 62, 547)
The numbers do not favor these fellas, in my opinion.

By the way, I wrote about a similar topic a couple of years ago. I looked at younger coaches and speculated as to which were on track toward a Hall of Fame career. Some of the same names came up.

cspan37421
11-11-2009, 11:07 AM
This debate hinges more on longevity than greatness, though you do have to be better than average to stay employed that long. To me it's a bit like saying that Pete Rose was a better hitter than Williams, Ruth, Gehrig or Cobb because he had the most hits. Pete got that record through longevity. He did not hit for power (lots of doubles, slugging isn't in top 700, OPS isn't in the top 500!), and his average, while very good, is not in the top 150 all-time.

To put it another way, if I could wish for only one of two outcomes:

1) K coaches 10 more years, racks up 1100 wins, but retires without any more national championships and just 1 more Final Four
2) K retires in 5 years with 960 wins, 1 more national championship and 2 more Final Fours

I'd prefer #2. It's more of a measure of greatness, to me.

crimsonandblue
11-11-2009, 11:33 AM
I saw this yesterday and thought about mentioning Self as a challenger, but really, I don't expect him to coach to anything close to 70. The money and year-round grind of the job has really changed from when Knight and even K started.

If Self's 55, won another title, made upwards of $30 million, etc. I can see him either looking for the NBA challenge or just packing it in. If not by 55, then at 60.

That said, Self's also a guy who doesn't seem to mind the recruiting, the schmoozing, and the networking that goes on on a constant basis. Maybe he's another of these lifers. Not much about his future, but the KC Star ran an interesting piece on Sunday talking about Self's personality and his salesmanlike ability to project the side of his person that needs to be shown for the circumstance at hand. Pretty interesting read if bored waiting for real hoops. (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/1555749.html)

crimsondevil
11-11-2009, 12:01 PM
I'd rate the challengers thusly--

1. Self
2. Capel
3. Boeheim
4. Donovan
5. Calhoun

This is an interesting discussion, but I think people are putting too much emphasis on coaches who are a long, long (long) way from getting the most wins. Yes, Capel's in a good position right now, but you're making a prediction for something 20-30 years down the road. This is like predicting Prince Fielder will pass Bonds in career HR's - possible, but there's too much time and too many variables for that to be the least bit likely. Self is a little better, but he's still Albert Pujols.

If you ask me, the most likely to beat K is Calhoun, followed by Boeheim. What they have to do is pretty simple - hang on for about 2 years (or maybe just 1 for Calhoun :eek:) after K retires. That said, I think the most likely outcome is that K holds onto the #1 spot for quite a while.

Battierfan01
11-11-2009, 01:20 PM
This is an interesting discussion, but I think people are putting too much emphasis on coaches who are a long, long (long) way from getting the most wins. Yes, Capel's in a good position right now, but you're making a prediction for something 20-30 years down the road. This is like predicting Prince Fielder will pass Bonds in career HR's - possible, but there's too much time and too many variables for that to be the least bit likely. Self is a little better, but he's still Albert Pujols.

If you ask me, the most likely to beat K is Calhoun, followed by Boeheim. What they have to do is pretty simple - hang on for about 2 years (or maybe just 1 for Calhoun :eek:) after K retires. That said, I think the most likely outcome is that K holds onto the #1 spot for quite a while.

Isn't Calhoun like 5 years older then Coach K?? I think he will most likely retire before Coach K.

BD80
11-11-2009, 01:48 PM
... If you ask me, the most likely to beat K is Calhoun, followed by Boeheim. What they have to do is pretty simple - hang on for about 2 years (or maybe just 1 for Calhoun :eek:) after K retires. That said, I think the most likely outcome is that K holds onto the #1 spot for quite a while.

Calhoun is not in great health, he has had multiple scares in recent years. I think it is unlikely he stays for even a couple of more years. But then, he does remind me of Bowden in many ways.

Capel does look like he has the best chance.

I still like to consider Josh Pastner. Age 32, 0 wins, but at a school that dominates its conference every year, and gets post-season wins. Averaging 30 wins a season for 30 years is do-able. Unlikely, but possible.

Indoor66
11-11-2009, 01:50 PM
Calhoun is not in great health, he has had multiple scares in recent years. I think it is unlikely he stays for even a couple of more years. But then, he does remind me of Bowden in many ways.

Capel does look like he has the best chance.

I still like to consider Josh Pastner. Age 32, 0 wins, but at a school that dominates its conference every year, and gets post-season wins. Averaging 30 wins a season for 30 years is do-able. Unlikely, but possible.

I would guess the liklihood of 30 wins a year for 30 years, starting at 0 for 0 is about 1 in 100,000,000! :rolleyes:

RepoMan
11-11-2009, 01:51 PM
I didn't realize the number of wins Huggins had. He piled them up at Cincinnati. Will be interesting to see what pace he can keep at WVU

CDu
11-11-2009, 01:58 PM
Isn't Calhoun like 5 years older then Coach K?? I think he will most likely retire before Coach K.

You are correct. Add to that the fact that Calhoun has had some recent health concerns, and I'd say he's definitely not likely to outlast Coach K. Of course, you never know.

BD80
11-11-2009, 02:00 PM
I would guess the liklihood of 30 wins a year for 30 years, starting at 0 for 0 is about 1 in 100,000,000! :rolleyes:

So you're saying there's a chance! I knew it!

Eternal Outlaw
11-11-2009, 02:04 PM
Bo Ryan (Wisconsin, 61, 556)
I'm sure I was asleep for most of those wins. Wisconsin is the most boring team ever. Theoretically, this guy could pass Coach K and no one would even notice.


That must include his D-III days at UW-Platteville. Guy is a genius, I was at school there for his last two years when he won the D-III title and knew where all the pick-up games were that the basketball players played at. I don't consider myself all that great of a player and I was more than hanging with the players on his title teams.

If you go by just D-I wins, he won't come close to K. He loses 350 or so D-III wins.

JasonEvans
11-11-2009, 02:05 PM
I still like to consider Josh Pastner. Age 32, 0 wins, but at a school that dominates its conference every year, and gets post-season wins. Averaging 30 wins a season for 30 years is do-able. Unlikely, but possible.

Just so we are clear-- 30 wins for 30 years does not get to you Coach K. K will likely retire with 1000+ career wins. So, if Pastner averages 30 wins a season (a very tall order) he would have to coach past his 65th birthday to get to K.

I think Capel is the most likely, thanks to him starting his head coaching career so young.

--Jason "are there too many candidates for a poll?" Evans

DevilCastDownfromDurham
11-11-2009, 02:25 PM
I think Capel is the most likely, thanks to him starting his head coaching career so young.

Capel's chances might go up even more if he moved to an historically elite program in 5-10 years. Somewhere like, oh, Duke. ;)

How great would it be to have the top 2 all-time wins leaders be Devils, and all three from the Knight to K coaching tree.

crimsonandblue
11-11-2009, 03:35 PM
Just so we are clear-- 30 wins for 30 years does not get to you Coach K. K will likely retire with 1000+ career wins. So, if Pastner averages 30 wins a season (a very tall order) he would have to coach past his 65th birthday to get to K.

I think Capel is the most likely, thanks to him starting his head coaching career so young.

--Jason "are there too many candidates for a poll?" Evans

Additionally, regarding Pastner, the likelihood that Memphis remains in CUSA seems small. At some point, they have to move. If nothing else, football will require it, I would think.

BD80
11-11-2009, 05:21 PM
Just so we are clear-- 30 wins for 30 years does not get to you Coach K. K will likely retire with 1000+ career wins. So, if Pastner averages 30 wins a season (a very tall order) he would have to coach past his 65th birthday to get to K. ...

--Jason "are there too many candidates for a poll?" Evans

That's it Jason. We are on!

I will wager that Pastner catches Coach K.

In my will, I will instuct my estate to publically proclaim (I doubt newspapers will still exist - maybe via Google Global insta-news broadcast on every personal communication device simultaneously throughout the world) that "Jason Evans was right" if Pastner retires in his 60s without passing K, or if he reaches 60 and has less than 700 wins.

If am right, please place a blue and white wreath on my grave stating simply: "Coach K is still #1 in our hearts."

If I am still around to witness the event, that will be cause enough for celebration!

airowe
11-11-2009, 06:13 PM
My odds on favorite is Self. Although, I think the coach to pass K will be one we've never heard of...

bfree
11-11-2009, 06:48 PM
Capel's chances might go up even more if he moved to an historically elite program in 5-10 years. Somewhere like, oh, Duke. ;)

How great would it be to have the top 2 all-time wins leaders be Devils, and all three from the Knight to K coaching tree.

This is an important part of the calculus....

brevity
11-12-2009, 09:43 AM
--Jason "are there too many candidates for a poll?" Evans

I think the limit is 12. Your idea, so it's your poll, but I would prefer to see the following 8 names.

Bob Knight (retired, 69, 902) - the question isn't whether he'd wait until Coach K reaches win #903. It's simpler: would he ever get back into coaching? Maybe in the 2010-11 season? It's not too late.

Bob Huggins (West Virginia, 56, 637) - numerically in a great position, but he and Jim Calhoun have been the biggest question marks in terms of health. I don't see him coaching in 10 years, but that's my opinion.

Roy Williams (North Carolina, 59, 594) - has to be here. Also, I think he could generate some interesting discussion. Not much has been said or written about a post-Roy UNC; as Ol' Roy becomes Ol'er, I wonder if he'll feel the pressure to stay longer than he'd like.

Bill Self (Kansas, 46, 376) - the likely favorite. Having passed on coaching his alma mater, he should generate more ridiculous win totals with the Jayhawks.

Billy Donovan (Florida, 44, 282) - probably a name that should be here to invite arguments as to why he shouldn't be here. Like many, I believe that the players who led the 2006 and 2007 squads were recruiting aberrations, and his level of talent now is much closer to what it was 10 years ago.

Mark Few (Gonzaga, 46, 264) - would encourage some discussion about mid-majors as regular season win factories. Gonzaga is a better example than Memphis.

Travis Ford (Oklahoma State, 39, 213) - Unlike the above names, I believe that his current head coaching job will not be his last. It's not hard to imagine Kentucky wanting someone homegrown to arrive in, say, 2012 and clean up their program. By then Ford may be more desirable than John Pelphrey.

Jeff Capel (Oklahoma, 34, 148) - should compete with Self for top poll honors. And debate will rage on as to a Duke successor.

You could round out the poll with Jim Calhoun, Jim Boeheim, and Thad Matta. That's 11 names. Then you could pick a 12th name (Josh Pastner?), or go with "Other - Please Specify."

I strongly recommend NOT giving readers a "Nobody" option; it gives them an excuse not to think. Supporting Coach K is fine -- we all know how hard it would be for anyone to approach his projected record -- but copping out like that is lame.

Indoor66
11-12-2009, 10:41 AM
You could round out the poll with Jim Calhoun, Jim Boeheim, and Thad Matta. That's 11 names. Then you could pick a 12th name (Josh Pastner?), or go with "Other - Please Specify."

How could you include a "coach" who has a record of 0 - 0 in a poll or serious discussion about who will win 900+ career games? Basketball coaching is way to ephemeral, in most cases, to have that make sense.

brevity
11-12-2009, 11:17 AM
How could you include a "coach" who has a record of 0 - 0 in a poll or serious discussion about who will win 900+ career games? Basketball coaching is way to ephemeral, in most cases, to have that make sense.

Hey, I don't feel strongly about it one way or the other. But Josh Pastner has already invited some discussion in this thread, none of it prompted by me. The combination of his young age, recruiting reputation, and high-profile job in a weak conference makes him an interesting test case.

Another idea for the 12th candidate: the Robo-Montgomery Knight 3000. Strictly a futuristic option. Could coach forever, but subject to overheating. Chair sold separately.

UrinalCake
11-12-2009, 01:22 PM
Capel's chances might go up even more if he moved to an historically elite program in 5-10 years. Somewhere like, oh, Duke. ;)

I disagree somewhat... I feel like the person to break the record would have to come out of a smaller or midmajor conference, where one team can dominate year in and year out. Like Gonzaga or Memphis. Being in a major conference makes it too hard to average 30-ish wins year in and year out, and nowadays coaches aren't really allowed to have a couple of down years. As previously mentioned, the physical stress of coaching at major program for that long is almost unimaginable.

BD80
11-16-2009, 06:07 PM
How could you include a "coach" who has a record of 0 - 0 in a poll or serious discussion about who will win 900+ career games? Basketball coaching is way to ephemeral, in most cases, to have that make sense.

Because that "coach" has long been recognized as a great student of the game and an incredilbe recruiter. His record is 0-0, but his FIRST recruiting class as a head coach is now ranked #1 in the nation:

http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/18360421


Josh Pastner added a fourth top 35 prospect Monday when Tarik Black committed to Memphis. ...

The 6-7 forward joins Will Barton (ranked No. 3 at MaxPreps.com), Joe Jackson (ranked No. 11 at MaxPreps.com) and Jelan Kendrick (ranked No. 16 at MaxPreps.com) as high school stars who have pledged their allegiance to Memphis. Combined with fellow signees Chris Crawford, Antonio Barton and Hippolyte Tsafack, they comprise what is almost certainly now the nation's No. 1 recruiting class ...

Indoor66
11-16-2009, 06:21 PM
Because that "coach" has long been recognized as a great student of the game and an incredilbe recruiter. His record is 0-0, but his FIRST recruiting class as a head coach is now ranked #1 in the nation:

http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/18360421

He still has to win a heck of a lot games to even get into the mix. He has a lot to prove. A lot of people are great students of the game and many have been great recruiters. Only a few can actually translate that into wins. Before placing him into the list of potential Hall of Fame coaches, I would like to see his production for, say, ten or fifteen years.

Duvall
11-16-2009, 06:26 PM
He still has to win a heck of a lot games to even get into the mix. He has a lot to prove. A lot of people are great students of the game and many have been great recruiters. Only a few can actually translate that into wins. Before placing him into the list of potential Hall of Fame coaches, I would like to see his production for, say, ten or fifteen years.

Or ten to fifteen games, for that matter.

DukePA
11-16-2009, 06:49 PM
I heard a unc fan grumbling that K's wins include the '96 season when he was out and that those wins should not be included in his total since he wasn't on the bench. Any truth to this? And what do you guys think?

91devil
11-16-2009, 09:15 PM
I heard a unc fan grumbling that K's wins include the '96 season when he was out and that those wins should not be included in his total since he wasn't on the bench. Any truth to this? And what do you guys think?

That UNC fan is sadly misinformed.

First, it was the 1994-1995 season (not 1995-1996) that you are talking about.

Coach K's wins (and losses) for the games that he was on the bench that year are included in his career record; believe it was 9-3 before he went out. The balance of the season, with Coach Peter Gaudet at the helm, the team went 4-15. Those last nineteen games are not included in Coach K's career record, though the results from the first twelve games (9-3) are.

It was the school/athletic department, and not Coach K, that made the in-season decision to have the records assigned separately (which followed examples set by other schools in similar situations). Coach K didn't make that call.

Funny, a prominent (and silly) criticism of Coach is that the results of those last nineteen games are not included in his overall record (as if he is 'dodging' having those games included). If they were, he'd be four wins closer to Coach Knight's record.

Either way, I guess, folks are going to lob criticisms at Coach K. Best just to walk away.

dukemsu
11-17-2009, 12:19 AM
Pastner may indeed be a great recruiter and is also tagged by many as being the Next Great One.

So was Billy Gillespie.

I'll wait and see a bit on Pastner. It's clear that he's the new flavor of the month, because he can indeed recruit. But as big a part of the game as recruiting now is, you gotta be able to actually coach too.

Barring an unforseen departure, K is likely to put that record nearly out of reach. Modern college basketball just isn't going to allow consistent success for that many years in a row. K's excellence, and that of some others (Ol' Roy, Howland, etc) makes people think it's easy to win 30 a year. It's not.

dukemsu

juise
11-17-2009, 02:57 AM
I'm just going to throw this out there: Josh Pastner is 32 years old and has a head coaching winning percentage of 100%.


Discuss amongst yourselves.

JasonEvans
11-17-2009, 07:25 AM
I'm just going to throw this out there: Josh Pastner is 32 years old and has a head coaching winning percentage of 100%.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

Pastner is averaging 1 win per season so far in his career. At his current pace, he would have to coach another 1000 years or so to get to K ;)

Lets talk after tonight, when his career winning percentage will be .500.

-Jason "talking about a first year coach topping the records of a Hall of Famer is more than a little silly" Evans

juise
04-08-2010, 06:10 PM
Brad Stevens, anyone? He's reportedly been locked up at Butler for 12 seasons (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5068230) and has almost averaged 30 wins in his first three seasons. With his long-term deal, he will continue to beat up on their Horizon foes. Seems like a pretty ideal situation for coaching records if he can leverage Butler's recent status for recruiting.