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houstondukie
11-09-2009, 07:09 PM
Anyone watching the UNC - FIU game? Jay Williams is calling the game. It could just be me, but it's very awkward and annoying to hear Jay praise the tar holes.

"How could you not want to play for a coach like Roy Williams"

He's even wearing a tar hole blue tie.

juise
11-09-2009, 07:14 PM
Perhaps he took some advice from another ESPN analyst named Jay (Bilas, whom I admire and whose Duke loyalty I never doubt) and is striving hard to earn an unbiased reputation.

airowe
11-09-2009, 07:14 PM
Anyone watching the UNC - FIU game? Jay Williams is calling the game. It could just be me, but it's very awkward and annoying to hear Jay praise the tar holes.

"How could you not want to play for a coach like Roy Williams"

He's even wearing a tar hole blue tie.

He's just doing his job. Still a True Dukie at heart.

CEF1959
11-09-2009, 07:22 PM
He's just doing his job.

Hard to stomach the "who wouldn't want to play for Roy" comment and the baby blue tie, but very true. That color commentary gig is a hard one to get, and he probably feels like he needs to establish some neutrality cred right off the bat. Gminski, Spanarkel, Bilas, Davis, Feinstein -- they've all been through it.

airowe
11-09-2009, 07:27 PM
J-Will has dropped 4 or 5 Duke references already. There's no one he will overcompensate as much as Bilas. His love for Duke is too fresh, too strong.

Edouble
11-09-2009, 07:37 PM
Perhaps he took some advice from another ESPN analyst named Jay (Bilas, whom I admire and whose Duke loyalty I never doubt) and is striving hard to earn an unbiased reputation.

But everyone on ESPN is biased anyway, so why would he need to do that?

Sorry, but why is it that our guys that have to say the kind of stuff that makes me puke in my mouth a little? Where's our Hubert Davis?

mgtr
11-09-2009, 07:40 PM
But, the really bad news is that UNC looks pretty good. Only weakness may be the backcourt.

RainingThrees
11-09-2009, 07:42 PM
But everyone on ESPN is biased anyway, so why would he need to do that?

Sorry, but why is it that our guys that have to say the kind of stuff that makes me puke in my mouth a little? Where's our Hubert Davis?

I see where you are coming from and I feel the same way about some of our guys being a bit too impartial. Still the last thing I want is a Duke version of Hubert Davis.

rthomas
11-09-2009, 07:48 PM
If you can't listen, then turn the damn sound down. Jason is making a life for himself. and doing a damn good job. I think you should do the same.

RainingThrees
11-09-2009, 07:51 PM
Jason is one of the better guys and I don't have a problem listening to him. I have a hard time listening to Bilas because when people disagree with him his lawyer side comes out and he gets very defensive. He pales in comparison to how bad Digger and Hubert are though.

RelativeWays
11-09-2009, 07:54 PM
I still don't see the big problem with Hubert Davis, he's given Duke props before and was the only one in ESPN gang of goons who gave Duke any credit for having a great season despite the loss to Villanova. Everyone else was heading down the "DUKE IS DOOMED!!!" train of thought. Digger flat out hates Duke and is transparent about it. Never had anything remotely kind to say.

Son of Mojo
11-09-2009, 08:04 PM
.....since I started a thread this past season regarding Mr. Bilas that spiraled out of control, but the line about "who wouldn't want to play for Roy" was a tad much. Tone it down juuuuuuuuust a little J-Will. Give the holes their just due when they deserve it but hold off on such comments, please. We don't need a hubertdavis equivalent for Duke but some "homer-ism" wouldn't be a terrible thing. Now speaking of terrible things you can feel free to fire away on Digger. Has he ever gotten over losing games to us from years past??? LET. IT. GO.

dukejim1
11-09-2009, 08:06 PM
What are they? Duke Blue in football and they are wearing Wolfpack red belts in basketball.

Newton_14
11-09-2009, 08:21 PM
But, the really bad news is that UNC looks pretty good. Only weakness may be the backcourt.

I got a different feeling watching them. Last year they had 4 guys that could absolutely kill you with offense. This version is literally an entirely different team. They have good team quickness and length, but no one that really terrifies you when they have the ball in their hands.

As I expected Ginyard knocked down some 3's and I think he will end up being their most consistent shooter out there.

Drew looks fairly good in transition and kind of so so in half court sets.

They will get better game by game but this team will not dominate you with offense the way last year's team did.

I am glad the season is finally here! Going to be a fun year!

airowe
11-09-2009, 08:22 PM
I got a different feeling watching them. Last year they had 4 guys that could absolutely kill you with offense. This version is literally an entirely different team. They have good team quickness and length, but no one that really terrifies you when they have the ball in their hands.

As I expected Ginyard knocked down some 3's and I think he will end up being their most consistent shooter out there.

Drew looks fairly good in transition and kind of so so in half court sets.

They will get better game by game but this team will not dominate you with offense the way last year's team did.

I am glad the season is finally here! Going to be a fun year!

Is it fair to say that Graves has been the best player on the floor tonight? :cool:

kong123
11-09-2009, 08:25 PM
Drews 6 to 1 assist to turnover ratio is pretty strong, better than expected

Newton_14
11-09-2009, 08:34 PM
Is it fair to say that Graves has been the best player on the floor tonight? :cool:

Graves did have a very nice dribble off of his foot out of bounds. He looked smooth doing that.

RainingThrees
11-09-2009, 08:38 PM
Deon Thompson scares me the most. When that jump shot is on he is lethal. Hopefully it will be off when UNC plays Duke.

dukelifer
11-09-2009, 08:40 PM
Drews 6 to 1 assist to turnover ratio is pretty strong, better than expected

Is FIU supposed to be any good? Carolina looks fine against what looks to be a pretty bad team. Carolina has a million players, however- they keep coming- some even look alike (e.g. the Wear twins). I am not sure there is much to be learned from this game other than Carolina is not going to lose to a team like FIU this year.

Coballs
11-09-2009, 08:41 PM
Perhaps he took some advice from another ESPN analyst named Jay (Bilas, whom I admire and whose Duke loyalty I never doubt) and is striving hard to earn an unbiased reputation.

I'd prefer that he strive hard to earn an un-Bilased reputation.

sagegrouse
11-09-2009, 08:49 PM
Here's my take--

a. 80% of the people watching are UNC fans. 5% are FIU fans. The remainder are hoop crazies or anybody but UNC fans.

b. This is definitely not a game with a large national interest -- that is, folks who want to see a good game and an important matchup.

c. Why wouldn't you try to cultivate 80% of the viewers?

I wouldn't overplay the Duke or the Duke-UNC thing. I think announcers have no trouble becoming pretty darned objective. It's the studio crowd trying to yuck it up that annoy me. Or, announcers who are just awful.

sagegrouse

sandinmyshoes
11-09-2009, 09:23 PM
I could stand for Jay to tone down the Vitale like flourishes, but otherwise think he's coming along nicely as an analyst.

As for UNC. Williams could have beat FIU by 50 if he'd wanted. He kept running players in and out. He seemed to be experimenting with various lineups.

The best thing about this game for UNC was the play of Drew. He was more than solid, and since he's a point guard it wasn't because of a purely physical advantage over the other team (as was the case for the UNC bigs).

For FIU, I thought they played very hard, and I have to give Isaiah credit for that little rebounding trick where they didn't really try to grab that many of them under the basket. They would just slap at the ball, trying to knock it out into the open where their speed would let them get to the ball before the UNC bigs could do so.

eightyearoldsdude
11-09-2009, 09:28 PM
IMO, bilas is the only guy who routinely says something that isn't blatantly obvious. and I mean *blatantly* obvious. In football, you regularly get analysis of defensive and offensive schemes, but you never seem to get that in basketball. I guess anything beyond zone vs. man is too subtle for the average viewer?

Wheat/"/"/"
11-09-2009, 09:48 PM
I got in late and only saw the 2nd half on JustinTV...and it was my first look at this team.
Some quick thoughts...

Jay Williams was hard to listen to. He made lots of comments that left me scratching my head...Deon has a non stop motor? Since when? And it's Tyler Zeller, not Luke along with some others.... But, it's early and he did sound comfortable in his role. He'll get better.

Zeller was the most impressive player to me in the half I saw. Watching him, it's easy to forget how big he is. Showed me a really nice all around game that half. He looked really fit and smooth. His mid-range game is strong, and he showed me some good defensive quickness when the Heels pressed. After what I saw, It wouldn't be surprised if he ends up starting alongside Deon and Davis comes in from the bench.

Davis looked like the same player at the end of last season, which is a beast down low. Stronger than Deon or TZ around the boards and defensively. Still needs to work on his ballhandling and post moves.

Strickland looked like a lost freshman.

Drew looked like I thought he would, which is a solid all around quality point guard.

Ginyard has his bounce back.

Wears looked like trouble for anybodys second team. Saw a front court lineup of Davis,Wear, Wear, and thought they looked comfortable together.

Never saw Graves, and didn't see much from Henson in that half of note.

The press looked like it can give teams trouble when they get the spacing down. It's a very different look for anybody to deal with with that size and length.

UNC is coming over the top of any team that tries to pressure them. They won't even try to beat you off the dribble very often. That's how they will advance the ball quickly without Ty Lawson. They better get more assertive with their passing against the really good teams than they were tonight.

Rebounding is this teams biggest strength, as we all suspected.

FireOgilvie
11-09-2009, 10:22 PM
Zeller was the most impressive player to me in the half I saw. Watching him, it's easy to forget how big he is. Showed me a really nice all around game that half. He looked really fit and smooth. His mid-range game is strong, and he showed me some good defensive quickness when the Heels pressed. After what I saw, It wouldn't be surprised if he ends up starting alongside Deon and Davis comes in from the bench.



After watching UNC's first two games:

There's no way Zeller starts over Davis. Zeller looked solid tonight, but Davis is a much much better defensive player and rebounder. The stats back me up on this one: Zeller had 12 pts, 4 rebounds, 0 blocks. Davis had 13 pts, 11 rebounds, 4 blocks. I think Zeller is too soft and won't be effective in the ACC this year.

By far the most impressive player, to me, is Thompson. He's definitely UNC's best scorer. He looks good.

Overall, I thought UNC looked surprisingly bad tonight. I wasn't particularly impressed by anyone except Thompson and Davis. I don't think they are going to be enough to carry their team. I really am dropping my expectations for them after watching this game (I thought they were probably a top 10 team). It's still early, but they really don't play well as a team and they're slow and can't handle the ball, which absolutely doesn't work in Roy's system. Henson has a ton of talent and I'm really surprised at how little he's improved since I last saw him. Unless Henson has a huge breakout, which is possible, I'm thinking they finish third (or lower) in the ACC behind Duke and Clemson.

UNC's guards looked awful. They are nowhere near high-level ACC guards at this point. We all know Ginyard won't be shooting like he did tonight against decent competition. Drew is definitely pretty fast, but there was zero defense today from FIU.

Keep in mind that "Northwood" beat FIU by 10 earlier this week. UNC beat FIU by 16...

airowe
11-09-2009, 10:26 PM
Wow, and 26 TOs. The up and down the court is going to get PUNC in some serious trouble when facing some capable guard pressure.

Roy should not be forcing the ball up the court with the backcourt that Carolina has.

Newton_14
11-09-2009, 10:34 PM
Wow, and 26 TOs. The up and down the court is going to get PUNC in some serious trouble when facing some capable guard pressure.

Roy should not be forcing the ball up the court with the backcourt that Carolina has.

He knows no other way. Kind of like K and man to man. ol roy will be waving that arm and screaming go go go all year. Thus the 26 TO's.

Pretty much what I expected. Thompson and Ginyard will lead the pups along. But they will get better, they just will not approach the success of the last 2 years. The backcourt and youth will be the achille's heel (no pun intended) in the end.

On a humerous note, does Henson weigh like 160 or what? Poor kid makes Zeller look fat.....

Wheat/"/"/"
11-09-2009, 11:21 PM
They turned it over way too much, mainly from passes I saw that lacked crispness, typical for the early season.

I do recognize that at least 5 or 6 of them came in the last 2 minutes from the deep bench.

Agreed that Zeller is not the beast that Davis is on the boards, not even close. But Zeller has game...that I am confident you will see this season. I don't really expect him to start over Davis, but it would not surprise me.

Keep in mind all I saw was a distracted 2nd half on crappy justinTV. I'm not married to anything I saw tonight.

airowe
11-09-2009, 11:57 PM
Wears looked like trouble for anybodys second team. Saw a front court lineup of Davis,Wear, Wear, and thought they looked comfortable together.


Evidently the Where? Twins weren't all that comfortable:


"It was overwhelming...I definitely blanked out on more than one occasion when a play was called," said David Wear. "I just kept setting screens and moving around like I knew what I was doing."

http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/110909aad.html

Greg_Newton
11-10-2009, 12:07 AM
Count me in with those who did not think UNC looked very impressive. If I had to characterize them in 3 words, it would be gangly, sloppy, and awkward.:rolleyes:

The two players they are counting on to elevate them from mid-high level ACC team to nat'l contender (Davis and Henson) are just such awkward athletes. They're super long, but they remind me of little kids that haven't quite figured out their bodies yet. So herky jerky. Watch Davis's footwork, he shuffles his feet as he gathers himself before going up every time. They're both great at swatting shots and dunking, but I'm not sure what else they'll do.

Deon Thompson is very solid, no surprise there. I don't know if he'll be able to carry the team on his back in tough games, but that remains to be seen.

Ginyard looks solid. But assuming his shot cools off, he's just a role player. Graves and Watts looked like servicable backups.

Drew looks comfortable, and quicker than I thought. A mid-level ACC point guard, perhaps... another role player.

Strickland looks very fast, but I don't know if he'll be ready this year.

Aside from that, no one really scared me. Zeller can get his shot off from 10 feet away over defenders, and sometimes makes it. Eh. He didn't seem like much of a presence otherwise. The Wears looked like a poor man's Nick Horvath(s?)... hands and overall IQ will keep them off the court. I like McDonald as a kid, but I don't see him contributing this year.

They'll get some gangly points off putbacks and blocks, but will also lose their fair share of passes off of flailing elbows and knees. I don't know, at this point I just don't see this team hanging in there with polished, disciplined teams that can match them talent-wise. Keep in mind FIU was picked to finish 9th in the Sun Belt...

Oriole Way
11-10-2009, 12:34 AM
Henson literally looks like he's 12 years old. Almost comical how skinny he is.

UNC has lots of talent and they will only get better as their underclassmen get some more experience. They will obviously be a great rebounding team regardless.

UNC will have major problems with turnovers and perimeter shooting, but they will definitely punish lots of opponents with their size and skill in the post. Their matchup with Duke will be interesting to me because I feel that Duke's major weakness this season will be turnovers as well. I think the experience of our Big 3 in Scheyer, Singler, and Smith will be the big difference in our matchups with them, but we really need Mason and Miles to develop this season to keep us competitive in the frontcourt.

Both Duke and UNC have lots of potential and some glaring weaknesses as well. UNC had an unimpressive performance tonight, but I saw a LOT of talent and depth on that team, and Roy Williams was mixing and matching with lots of lineups to get everyone minutes and see what he was working with. Should be a good year for both rival programs.

Ohiobobcat204
11-10-2009, 02:02 AM
I think UNC looked pretty solid tonight for their first game. Definitely going to be an athletic team. Hopefully we can match up to their athletisism come game day

flyingdutchdevil
11-10-2009, 06:04 AM
How did the overall backcourt look? Their frontcourt, with Thompson and Davis, is plain nasty. Their backcourt, although deeper then ours (in terms of volume, not talent), is the worst backcourt they've had in a really, really long time. Drew may be an okay PG, but he will be living in the shadow of Lawson, whether he likes that comparison or not. Also, their combo guards and 2-guards just aren't experienced enough, regardless of how many McD All-Americans they have.

oldnavy
11-10-2009, 07:45 AM
This was a VERY unimpressive game for a top 5 team. FIU actually grabbed more offensive rebounds than UNC (13 to 12). Total rebounding was not that close (UNC +15), but this has to be a concern for UNC if that pattern holds. Also, the turnovers. Yes a few came late in what turned into a slop fest, but 21 of the T/O's were committed by the primary rotation. Drew II did well, but once the ball left his hands it became very unstable. And, 30% shooting from behind the arc? I didn't get the sense that FIU was applying THAT much pressure on the shooters. FIU shot 35% from 3pt range, so I was not overly impressed with the UNC perimeter D. And finally, the game was played dead even in the second half. Not a good sign IMO for the holes. The largest lead I saw (albeit I only saw the last 12 mins) was around 23 points, so it never was a true blow out. Last year's UNC team would have beaten FIU by 40+ points. It's early, but IF I were a hole, I would not be feeling real well today.

davekay1971
11-10-2009, 08:35 AM
Should be an interesting year for UNC. They're basically a whole new team from last year, and are going to have to grow into their roles. They have some of the best talent in the nation, but there are a few challenges in front of them.

Can Drew be the consistent PG that a team working a bunch of young guys into rotation is going to need?

How do all those big young guys fit in and play, particularly in the ACC?

Can Ol' Roy coach a different style for different players? Last year's team was his ideal fit - a very mobile team that could run all day. This year's team may need to work more through a half court set. That's not Roy's style...but one thing that defines an elite coach is the ability to alter style to fit the personnel at hand.

whereinthehellami
11-10-2009, 10:48 AM
I watched about half of the first half. Thoughts....


Thompson looks pretty good, knows what he's going to do with the ball.


Davis is long and a weird gangly/athletic mix. Gangthletic? He shouldn't dribble. Its not good for Roy's blood pressure. He can rebound, block shots, and dunk really well though.


Drew looks like a serviceable ACC PG. Nothing special though and that will be a problem with the system that Roy runs.


Henson is awkwardly skinnny. Seems like an injury waiting to happen. I expected more out of him, not sure that was justified though. He will shine in the open court but get killed in the paint in ACC play.


Zeller should be a good player but isn't tenacious and will be a liabilty on defense on the perimeter.

What I'm seeing is a bunch of solid players but not really any bonafied stars. UNC should be good this year. In and out of the top 10 but I don't expect to see them make a run at the NC or anything. They should be playing better ball as the year goes on but all those young players will also hit part of the "wall" to.

CDu
11-10-2009, 11:26 AM
I watched about half of the first half. Thoughts....


Thompson looks pretty good, knows what he's going to do with the ball.


Davis is long and a weird gangly/athletic mix. Gangthletic? He shouldn't dribble. Its not good for Roy's blood pressure. He can rebound, block shots, and dunk really well though.


Drew looks like a serviceable ACC PG. Nothing special though and that will be a problem with the system that Roy runs.


Henson is awkwardly skinnny. Seems like an injury waiting to happen. I expected more out of him, not sure that was justified though. He will shine in the open court but get killed in the paint in ACC play.


Zeller should be a good player but isn't tenacious and will be a liabilty on defense on the perimeter.

What I'm seeing is a bunch of solid players but not really any bonafied stars. UNC should be good this year. In and out of the top 10 but I don't expect to see them make a run at the NC or anything. They should be playing better ball as the year goes on but all those young players will also hit part of the "wall" to.

I agree with most of this. It was definitely an "eh.." performance at best from UNC. They comfortably beat a clearly inferior team, but didn't look great doing it. That said, it's early in the season for them and they are still learning to play together. We'll see what they bring in spring 2010.

Drew looked solid and composed. I don't think he's going to be a difference-maker at PG, but I don't think he will be a liability.

Thompson looked solid in a leading role. However, it's important to note (as it was with the Plumlees and Zoubek against Findlay and Pfeiffer) that FIU is REALLY small. They only played two guys over 6'5", and one of those was a skinny 6'7" guy. It'll be interesting to see Thompson against ACC bigs.

Zeller seems like a finesse player plain and simple. If he has room to shoot, he has a nice touch. But I suspect he'll disappear against bigger, more physical competition. I think he's going to remain the third big. He's not always going to have the 7-9" height advantage like he had last night.

Davis is lanky, athletic, and uncoordinated. He's strong around the rim, and he'll block shots, but seeing him with the ball outside of 5-7 feet looks bad.

Ginyard looked about the same. He hit a few open jumpers from deep, which was new. If that continues, then he'll be a solid contributor. But he won't be playing much PG, and if he does that's a problem for them.

The freshmen looked like freshmen. Strickland made a bunch of mistakes, McDonald was quiet, and the Wear twins looked like they'll see only limited time when the real games start. The thing I was most surprised by is just how skinny Henson is. He didn't really have a big impact otherwise, so I can't say much else yet.

Graves looked about the same (bulkier, but same game). I don't think he'll be an impact player for them either.

They're going to have to get a lot better to be a top-tier team. That said, they have a lot of time to get there.

airowe
11-10-2009, 11:46 AM
They really don't have a lot of time though. They play:

Ohio State on 11/19
Michigan State on 12/1
Kentucky on 12/5

These games will truly test the expectations of this team and if they lose all three it will inflate the perceptions of the Big 10 and UK. I see them maybe beating Ohio State but with almost a completely new team, they'll need time to get comfortable. Not sure if 9 days and a couple of cupcakes is enough time for that.

natedog4ever
11-10-2009, 11:48 AM
They should be playing better ball as the year goes on but all those young players will also hit part of the "wall" to.

Well, after watching the game last night, one thing I can guarantee - the "Wall" is going to hit back when they go to Rupp.

Battierfan01
11-10-2009, 12:00 PM
They really don't have a lot of time though. They play:

Ohio State on 11/19
Michigan State on 12/1
Kentucky on 12/5

These games will truly test the expectations of this team and if they lose all three it will inflate the perceptions of the Big 10 and UK. I see them maybe beating Ohio State but with almost a completely new team, they'll need time to get comfortable. Not sure if 9 days and a couple of cupcakes is enough time for that.

Yeah UNC has a really tough schedule early on. This team will be tested early and it will be interesting to see them against top 5 teams. It will also be interesting to see how much Roy plays his freshman against these teams.

CDu
11-10-2009, 12:02 PM
They really don't have a lot of time though. They play:

Ohio State on 11/19
Michigan State on 12/1
Kentucky on 12/5

These games will truly test the expectations of this team and if they lose all three it will inflate the perceptions of the Big 10 and UK. I see them maybe beating Ohio State but with almost a completely new team, they'll need time to get comfortable. Not sure if 9 days and a couple of cupcakes is enough time for that.

Yeah, but those games, while fun for discussion purposes and seeding implications, are much less meaningful than ACC play and tournament play. Sure, it would cost them in terms of seeding to lose those games. But really they just need to be ready to play together come January. Realistically, the worst case scenario would be 3-4 pre-ACC losses. That's not the end of the world for them. If they're ready by ACC play (or even by tourney time), that's what is going to matter for them.

CDu
11-10-2009, 12:05 PM
Yeah UNC has a really tough schedule early on. This team will be tested early and it will be interesting to see them against top 5 teams. It will also be interesting to see how much Roy plays his freshman against these teams.

He'll have no choice but to play some of the freshmen in these games. Only Thompson, Davis, Graves, Ginyard, Drew, Zeller, and Watts are non-freshmen, and I don't see Watts playing big minutes.

I could see him shortening bench to exclude the Wears from siginficant time (in fact, I expect this to happen). But I don't see any way that Henson and Strickland don't get at least 10-15 minutes per game.

CEF1959
11-10-2009, 12:23 PM
I don't care enough about Carolina to discuss the subtleties of their program or schedule. Obsession is just a form of flattery, and I decline to give them that.

Duvall
11-10-2009, 12:26 PM
I don't care enough about Carolina to discuss the subtleties of their program or schedule. Obsession is just a form of flattery, and I decline to give them that.

Thanks for sharing.

NSDukeFan
11-10-2009, 12:32 PM
They really don't have a lot of time though. They play:

Ohio State on 11/19
Michigan State on 12/1
Kentucky on 12/5

These games will truly test the expectations of this team and if they lose all three it will inflate the perceptions of the Big 10 and UK. I see them maybe beating Ohio State but with almost a completely new team, they'll need time to get comfortable. Not sure if 9 days and a couple of cupcakes is enough time for that.

You're right, they don't have a lot of time before this difficult stretch. But, I am pretty sure they will not be awarding any ACC or national championships in early December. (UNC may award themselves one, and give their players rings, but nobody else will.) I wouldn't be surprised if they did exactly as you predict. However, I think they would still have lots of time (as CDu mentioned) to improve by the time of the end of the ACC season and year-end tournaments. I wouldn't be surprised to see UNC out of the top 10 early on, but they have plenty of potential with their young players to get better as the year progresses. Hopefully, we start off stronger and our young guys improve enough so that we stay ahead of them.

airowe
11-10-2009, 12:36 PM
You're right, they don't have a lot of time before this difficult stretch. But, I am pretty sure they will not be awarding any ACC or national championships in early December. (UNC may award themselves one, and give their players rings, but nobody else will.) I wouldn't be surprised if they did exactly as you predict. However, I think they would still have lots of time (as CDu mentioned) to improve by the time of the end of the ACC season and year-end tournaments. I wouldn't be surprised to see UNC out of the top 10 early on, but they have plenty of potential with their young players to get better as the year progresses. Hopefully, we start off stronger and our young guys improve enough so that we stay ahead of them.

I agree, but losing those 3 games, plus a possible loss to Texas later in the year (in Cowboys Stadium, which I toured earlier this month and is HUGE) will really put the heat on a young team with no real leader besides Ginyard. After such easy success last year (minus a few speed bumps early in ACC play) a young, unestablished team may get rattled. We'll see. The opposite of course could happen if they win a couple of those games. It could be a good thing for them to lose those games outside of league play, but it could be a very bad thing if their confidence gets shaken and the Sheeple start hammering LD2 or some of their other Freshman..

shoutingncu
11-10-2009, 01:10 PM
...(UNC may award themselves one, and give their players rings, but nobody else will.)

I hate when people reply with merely an "LOL," but I thought that was hilarious.

To somewhat add to the thread, then, I thought it was interesting that Ol' Roy didn't start any freshmen. In fact, Watts came in earlier than I would have expected, as well. Does this take pressure off the youth? Or will it hurt chemistry/confidence when a more aggressive/polished Henson or Strickland take the spot from Graves and push Watts down the rotation?

Speaking of:
Graves (6 points)
Watts (5 points)
(for those keeping track elsewhere ;))

airowe
11-10-2009, 01:11 PM
Speaking of:
Graves (6 points)
Watts (5 points)
(for those keeping track elsewhere ;))

Thanks, ncu! Graves was what, 0-3 from 3 point land? I like how this is starting out...

NSDukeFan
11-10-2009, 02:27 PM
Thanks, ncu! Graves was what, 0-3 from 3 point land? I like how this is starting out...

But Ginyard was 2-4 and the team was 4-13, which is not atrocious. This game did nothing to make me think UNC won't be strong this year. If they shoot 33% from 3 this year and Drew is serviceable at PG, I think that will be enough for them to contend with that potentially loaded frontcourt. I expect the freshmen to improve as the season progresses as well.

Troublemaker
11-10-2009, 02:45 PM
I agree, but losing those 3 games, plus a possible loss to Texas later in the year (in Cowboys Stadium, which I toured earlier this month and is HUGE) will really put the heat on a young team with no real leader besides Ginyard. After such easy success last year (minus a few speed bumps early in ACC play) a young, unestablished team may get rattled. We'll see. The opposite of course could happen if they win a couple of those games. It could be a good thing for them to lose those games outside of league play, but it could be a very bad thing if their confidence gets shaken and the Sheeple start hammering LD2 or some of their other Freshman..

I doubt there's any situation that's going to get their players rattled. That program is in cruise control right now, with 2 NCs in 5 years, and they'll have the confidence to recover from some early losses, if they occur. UNC's players are very talented, and they know it, and talent won't rattle easily.

Drew looked solid last night, Ginyard made shots, Graves -- their one pure shooter -- has been playing well enough in the pre-season to start, and their frontcourt dominated as expected. UNC fans can take away lots of positives from that game.

airowe
11-10-2009, 02:49 PM
NSDukeFan,

Shoutingncu and I were referring to Wheat and I's bet where I took Watts and he took Graves in a more pts for the year. I'll probably lose it, but it's fun nonetheless.

NSDukeFan
11-10-2009, 02:52 PM
NSDukeFan,

Shoutingncu and I were referring to Wheat and I's bet where I took Watts and he took Graves in a more pts for the year. I'll probably lose it, but it's fun nonetheless.

Thanks for the clarification. I hope you don't have to wear a UNC shirt or anything that bad. I don't like your chances.

airowe
11-10-2009, 02:57 PM
On paper I don't either. That's a big reason why I proposed it, because I knew he'd take it. I'd never in a million years bet on Graves to do anything, mainly because I don't have faith in his desire or dedication.

That said, I knew Wheat would see it through pale blue shades, so I'm willing to take the chance here.

Edouble
11-11-2009, 01:52 AM
On paper I don't either. That's a big reason why I proposed it, because I knew he'd take it. I'd never in a million years bet on Graves to do anything, mainly because I don't have faith in his desire or dedication.

That said, I knew Wheat would see it through pale blue shades, so I'm willing to take the chance here.

I believe there is a $20 Fandango gift certificate on the line?

oldnavy
11-11-2009, 07:16 AM
I doubt there's any situation that's going to get their players rattled. That program is in cruise control right now, with 2 NCs in 5 years, and they'll have the confidence to recover from some early losses, if they occur. UNC's players are very talented, and they know it, and talent won't rattle easily.

Drew looked solid last night, Ginyard made shots, Graves -- their one pure shooter -- has been playing well enough in the pre-season to start, and their frontcourt dominated as expected. UNC fans can take away lots of positives from that game.
Most of the UNC fans that I have talked too didn't even watch the game! But that is not atypical in my experience with the spoiled UNC nation. I would have to disagree with the assessment that there were a lot of positives in this game. Sure there are a few isolated positives that you can take away from the win (there always are). DII didn't play badly, Thompson was steady, etc... BUT overall, 20+ turnovers, poor outside shooting, and getting out rebounded on the offensive boards, when you have the greatest frontline of all time would have me worried AT THIS POINT. Not to say that they don't correct this over the season, but it was an underwhelming performance for a top 5 team against a very WEAK opponent. We get another look tonight so stand by.

airowe
11-11-2009, 10:07 AM
Whoa, EDouble. Have you been reading my private messages? :)

I think all I need is Watts to average about 5 points a game or for Graves to get into Huckleberry's doghouse and only play about 5 minutes a game.

westwall
11-11-2009, 12:06 PM
..... Now speaking of terrible things you can feel free to fire away on Digger. Has he ever gotten over losing games to us from years past??? LET. IT. GO.

-- Digger has never gotten over losing Tinker Bell to Duke.

Indoor66
11-11-2009, 12:11 PM
-- Digger has never gotten over losing Tinker Bell to Duke.

As well as losing to Tink and Duke in the Final Four - his only Final Four.

Edouble
11-11-2009, 12:52 PM
Whoa, EDouble. Have you been reading my private messages? :)


No. The wager was made over the message boards. There was also a public call to arms for someone else to remember, so I am doing my best. :rolleyes:

juise
11-11-2009, 12:57 PM
No. The wager was made over the message boards. There was also a public call to arms for someone else to remember, so I am doing my best. :rolleyes:

Yeah, and it was only 3 days ago (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=328359&postcount=19). :p

airowe
11-11-2009, 01:24 PM
No. The wager was made over the message boards. There was also a public call to arms for someone else to remember, so I am doing my best. :rolleyes:


Yeah, and it was only 3 days ago (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=328359&postcount=19). :p

:o:o

Hermy-own
11-11-2009, 08:14 PM
I agree with Oldnavy. UNC had a very weak game, for a few reasons: Their freshman didn't show anything. They had 26 turnovers - a number that huge will be a problem all year, unless this was a one time fluke. Their frontcourt is not as good as people think, especially Thompson - he is not a true star, and never will be. He just used his experience to rack up numbers against a much less talented team. UNC's hopes of a dominant frontcourt will rest on Ed Davis this year - just like Duke's will rest on Miles Plumlee. I think both will pan out (especially Miles). But overall, that was a pretty bad game for UNC. They certainly lack the depth of talent they had last year.

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-12-2009, 12:47 AM
I agree with Oldnavy. UNC had a very weak game, for a few reasons: Their freshman didn't show anything. They had 26 turnovers - a number that huge will be a problem all year, unless this was a one time fluke. Their frontcourt is not as good as people think, especially Thompson - he is not a true star, and never will be. He just used his experience to rack up numbers against a much less talented team. UNC's hopes of a dominant frontcourt will rest on Ed Davis this year - just like Duke's will rest on Miles Plumlee. I think both will pan out (especially Miles). But overall, that was a pretty bad game for UNC. They certainly lack the depth of talent they had last year.

I know it's wayyy too ealier but i smell a sweep.

juise
11-12-2009, 01:10 AM
Just for the record... Graves 11, Watts 12.

theAlaskanBear
11-12-2009, 07:51 AM
It's only one game, and obviously the Carolina players will grow as the season progresses. However, I am cautiously optimistic that those people will only have an average season.

Larry Drew played well, but I think they will struggle with their #2 guard. Its already been mentioned, but they will have turnover issues. That said, Thompson and Davis looked good (not great tho).

If I remember correctly, at one point FIU and Carolina were tied with rebounding at 20, which is insane if you consider the size of Carolina. I think they have a bunch of soft big men. Maybe Ed Davis is the exception.

Who is their freshman guard/SF, Strickland? He looked GOOD.

CDu
11-12-2009, 08:53 AM
It's only one game, and obviously the Carolina players will grow as the season progresses. However, I am cautiously optimistic that those people will only have an average season.

Larry Drew played well, but I think they will struggle with their #2 guard. Its already been mentioned, but they will have turnover issues. That said, Thompson and Davis looked good (not great tho).

If I remember correctly, at one point FIU and Carolina were tied with rebounding at 20, which is insane if you consider the size of Carolina. I think they have a bunch of soft big men. Maybe Ed Davis is the exception.

Who is their freshman guard/SF, Strickland? He looked GOOD.

I agree that, aside from Davis, their frontcourt is soft. I suspect that will get exploited when they play real teams. FIU and NCCU were just too small and not talented enough to exploit that, but teams like FSU and Clemson have both the size and physicality to punish softness, and we have the size to prevent them just going over top of us too.

Another thing that may get exposed is their lack of ballhandling, and not just PG ballhandling. Drew and Strickland are solid with the ball, though Strickland appears turnover prone. After that, though, there's nobody that is good with the ball. Ginyard, Graves, and Watts provide very little in this regard, and then it's all big men. I think they may end up taking a lot of contested jumpshots if they get forced into a half court game this year.

Kedsy
11-12-2009, 09:21 AM
Another thing that may get exposed is their lack of ballhandling, and not just PG ballhandling. Drew and Strickland are solid with the ball, though Strickland appears turnover prone. After that, though, there's nobody that is good with the ball. Ginyard, Graves, and Watts provide very little in this regard, and then it's all big men. I think they may end up taking a lot of contested jumpshots if they get forced into a half court game this year.

I didn't see either game, but I heard Henson is supposed to be good with the ball, a point-forward type. Is this not true?

CDu
11-12-2009, 11:22 AM
I didn't see either game, but I heard Henson is supposed to be good with the ball, a point-forward type. Is this not true?

From what I've seen, he's had a few nice passes over the heads of smaller players. But he hasn't really done anything in terms of handling the ball. In terms of showing ballhandling, he's looked like a (much) more athletic Ryan Kelly. In other words, mostly spotting up, very little attacking off the dribble. Don't get me wrong, though. Their skill sets are VERY different. It's just that I haven't seen Henson show real ballhandling skills. Of course, Henson's had limited minutes, and as the season progresses he may show an expanded skillset in that area. I just haven't seen it yet.

And note also that this discussion only applies to his ballhandling. He's clearly very athletic, and he has a very good knack for blocking shots. And if they can get the transition game going, he has the potential to be an impact player with his height and athleticism.