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View Full Version : Chris Paul - Some things never change



Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-03-2009, 08:09 AM
For those of us that remember the Julius Hodge incident a few years back, Chris Paul has always been a bit of a dubious person to take on the face of a franchise. Looks like some people are starting to pay attention...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/nba/11/03/Rondo.Paul.ap/index.html?xid=si_nba

sivartrenrag
11-03-2009, 08:14 AM
I went to his high school so I don't think there's ever been a player I've wanted to like more than Chris Paul. I still like him (kind of a hometown hero, I guess), but after that Julius Hodge incident I lost a lot of respect for him. This certainly doesn't help, either.

UrinalCake
11-03-2009, 08:33 AM
I will never believe the "Saint Paul" garbage. Aside from the Hodge incident, I've watched plenty of replays both in college and the NBA where he shoves people in the back, throws elbows, etc. at times when he knows he can get away with it. The guy's a dirty player.

camion
11-03-2009, 08:35 AM
There is suspicion that Chris Paul is the secret identity of a super-villian (http://eweb.furman.edu/~wshep/Media/ck.jpg).

studdlee10
11-03-2009, 08:50 AM
Not condoning his actions, but in fairness to Chris Paul....when you are 5'10 - 6'0 tall and weigh 175 lbs in a league full of 7 footers and guys who can bench press 185lbs 20+ times, you have to play with a little bit of an edge if you want to survive.

John Stockton was the king of small PGs who made a living off of being sneaky and not overtly dirty.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-03-2009, 08:59 AM
Well, there's dirty, and then there's DIRTY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F3tptzEWmM

You decide.

moonpie23
11-03-2009, 09:01 AM
John Stockton was the king of small PGs who made a living off of being sneaky and not overtly dirty.

john stockton was one of the dirtiest players the nba has ever seen.....

Tom B.
11-03-2009, 09:21 AM
For those of us that remember the Julius Hodge incident a few years back, Chris Paul has always been a bit of a dubious person to take on the face of a franchise. Looks like some people are starting to pay attention...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/nba/11/03/Rondo.Paul.ap/index.html?xid=si_nba


After further review, the NBA league office has decided to discipline Paul by assessing a technical foul to Dan Ewing.

_Gary
11-03-2009, 09:44 AM
I actually watched that Celtics/Hornets game the other night and took note of the Rondo/Paul matchup. Chris Paul has always been a punk and he'll probably always be a punk. He talks trash plenty and he's one of those guys that you just want to punch out on the court because he's such a jerk. It's not because he's great and is making you look bad with his play. It's that he's just a jerk. He's lucky Rondo didn't knock his block off right after the game because he came close. They were showing the post-game congrats and Paul had come over to the Celtics bench as they were getting up to leave and he was saying something about Rondo, something deragatory of course, to Pierce. Rondo overheard it and really started to come after him. It was serious stuff from what I could tell. But the bottom line is that Chris Paul is just one of those players that you really want to slap when you are on the court. Most of us that have played ball for any length of time in our lives know, just by body language and facial expressions, the type of person I'm referring to. And I think he's one of those types.

6th Man
11-03-2009, 09:46 AM
Chris Paul kicked Sean Dockery in the head at a game in Cameron. I have it on DVR. They were near the Duke bench and Dockery was on the ground going after a ball. Paul kicked him in the head. Might have been the same game he threw the ball in Melchionni's face. Chris Paul is so incredibly fake. I'd have more respect for him if he just admitted he was a dirty player, but he tries to play the role of saint. Can't stand him and I am from his hometown. Like another poster, I have every reason to like him, but he is a straight up punk.

LaettnerWannabe
11-03-2009, 09:56 AM
I'm a Celtic fan, so I'm a little biased on this. I don't know what all was said between Paul and Rondo, but I'm sure Rondo had the best taunt of the night when he was reported to have said to Paul "I've got a ring, and you're never gonna win one." Ouch. That's gotta hurt, gold medal or not.

oldnavy
11-03-2009, 10:01 AM
After further review, the NBA league office has decided to discipline Paul by assessing a technical foul to Dan Ewing.

There was an incident where CP and a Duke player (Ewing?), ere on the floor going after the ball and CP shoved/punched our guy, and our guy got the technical! Anybody recall the details of that?:confused:

sagegrouse
11-03-2009, 10:17 AM
An openly dirty play in the last game of the regular season, IIRC. He gets suspended and his team loses in the semifinals of the ACC tournament (ironically, to NC State) and, as a Number 2 seed, bowed out in the 2nd round against WVa.

Not exactly a way for a first team A-A to end his career.

sagegrouse

roywhite
11-03-2009, 10:23 AM
Always thought Skip Prosser should have disciplined Chris Paul more firmly. After one such incident of poor sportsmanship, Coach K would have had a serious discussion with a player like Paul, star or not.

BobbyFan
11-03-2009, 10:49 AM
I wouldn't exactly paint Rondo as the angel in this Paul-Rondo feud; they are both at fault here. They were going at it throughout the game, and after it was over, Rondo went up to Paul and gave him a bump. In general, Rondo's head has been getting progressively larger ever since the Celtics won the title.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-03-2009, 11:01 AM
I really enjoyed watching Coach K with the Olympic team last summer, but I would much rather have watched any point guard other than Chris Paul on that squad. I admit, it sullied my experience.

I understand that Coach assembled the best possible group of players, but yikes.

darthur
11-03-2009, 11:09 AM
Chris Paul kicked Sean Dockery in the head at a game in Cameron. I have it on DVR. They were near the Duke bench and Dockery was on the ground going after a ball. Paul kicked him in the head. Might have been the same game he threw the ball in Melchionni's face. Chris Paul is so incredibly fake. I'd have more respect for him if he just admitted he was a dirty player, but he tries to play the role of saint. Can't stand him and I am from his hometown. Like another poster, I have every reason to like him, but he is a straight up punk.

Paul is a (very) dirty player, no doubt. But:

1) As far as I understand, he's still a pretty good guy off the court, which does count for something even if he's a punk on it.
2) It's not his fault that people hyped him as something he wasn't.

The "Saint Paul" article in college was awful, but the blame there lies squarely with the reporter, not with Chris Paul. I'm sure Paul liked the article and maybe even believed it, but everyone believes they are good guys.

sagegrouse
11-03-2009, 11:14 AM
I really enjoyed watching Coach K with the Olympic team last summer, but I would much rather have watched any point guard other than Chris Paul on that squad. I admit, it sullied my experience.

I understand that Coach assembled the best possible group of players, but yikes.

Chris has changed his tune about K and Duke, or at least Coach K. Here are two quotes from before the Olympics, after Chris Paul had played with K on the national team:

"There are a lot of times that people would hold grudges, and one might think that I'm not going to listen to what he said, or do what I was taught at Wake or with the Hornets, but no way," Paul said. "We hit it off, and I've got a newfound respect for Coach K. I've gotten to know him. We've moved on. I'll crack jokes on Duke and he'll do the same on Wake. When we're on the court, it's all about USA."

"Coach K is a winner," Paul said. "Regardless of what anybody tries to say about him, he's a proven winner and [a] guy I really enjoy playing for."

sagegrouse

BD80
11-03-2009, 11:25 AM
I wouldn't exactly paint Rondo as the angel in this Paul-Rondo feud; they are both at fault here. They were going at it throughout the game, and after it was over, Rondo went up to Paul and gave him a bump. In general, Rondo's head has been getting progressively larger ever since the Celtics won the title.

Now his head is $55 million big.

Never been a fan of CP3, but his talent is unmistakeable.

With Rondo, the Celts are really taking a chance, and they know it. Rumor is they tried to trade him rather than risk 5 years locked in with Rondo.

studdlee10
11-03-2009, 11:40 AM
Now his head is $55 million big.

Never been a fan of CP3, but his talent is unmistakeable.

With Rondo, the Celts are really taking a chance, and they know it. Rumor is they tried to trade him rather than risk 5 years locked in with Rondo.

Rondo is incredibly talented, but you have to wonder about his maturity/intelligence. I just find it funny that Larry Johnson, Kyrie, etc get so much flack for what they post on their twitter pages....take a look at Rondo's (if they haven't taken it down by now). Guy comes across as barely literate, and throws around anti-gay slurs left and right. Just another example of why Boston is so skeptical of him.

speedevil2001
11-03-2009, 12:06 PM
Not condoning his actions, but in fairness to Chris Paul....when you are 5'10 - 6'0 tall and weigh 175 lbs in a league full of 7 footers and guys who can bench press 185lbs 20+ times, you have to play with a little bit of an edge if you want to survive.

John Stockton was the king of small PGs who made a living off of being sneaky and not overtly dirty.

paul reminds me of isiah thomas: small, tough, pgs that play with a chip on their shoulders.

watching the hornets play the first week of the nba season, it seems like the rest of the hornets dont play with the same passion paul does.

speedevil2001
11-03-2009, 12:08 PM
john stockton was one of the dirtiest players the nba has ever seen.....

some call it dirty, some call it tough or smart or gritty...i call it playing ball and stockton was a GOD among pgs during his time.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-03-2009, 12:13 PM
paul reminds me of isiah thomas: small, tough, pgs that play with a chip on their shoulders.

watching the hornets play the first week of the nba season, it seems like the rest of the hornets dont play with the same passion paul does.

Did you look at the youtube video? I don't see it as "gritty" or "passionate" when you are taking groin shots at a player in the middle of a play....

Tom B.
11-03-2009, 12:44 PM
There was an incident where CP and a Duke player (Ewing?), ere on the floor going after the ball and CP shoved/punched our guy, and our guy got the technical! Anybody recall the details of that?:confused:


That's the incident I was talking about. It occurred during the game at Wake in 2005. Paul and Ewing went after a loose ball -- as they were struggling for the ball, Paul gave Ewing a hard forearm, and Ewing responded by shoving Paul back. The officials, of course, missed the forearm shiver by Paul and nailed Ewing for the retaliatory shove, the less severe of the two fouls. There was a stretch of two or three games after that in which Ewing got T'ed up for seemingly minor or non-existent infractions. Paul, on the other hand, largely escaped discipline until the too-obvious-to-ignore Hodge incident blew up the Saint Paul myth once and for all.

The thing is, I agree with the poster above who said that he really wants to like Paul. I absolutely love watching him play. Say what you will about his personality, but his game is pure fun to watch. He seems like a nice enough guy off the court, and I thought he acquitted himself well during the Olympics last year. I figured (hoped?) that he'd grown out of the punkish on-court stuff he displayed in college.

I think my feelings towards Paul have helped to give me some perspective on how fans of other programs feel about Laettner, especially given how the media during Laettner's college days loved to push the "Duke choirboys" meme -- a narrative that seemed at odds with the prickly and, yes, punkish personality of the team's marquee player. The difference as I see it, though, is that most Duke fans I know (then and now) freely admit that Laettner was an S.O.B. Many Wake fans I've encountered, on the other hand, were heavily invested in the Saint Paul myth and would become agitated and indignant if it was questioned. I guess this could be at least partly due to the fact that, for all the good players and wins it's had over the years, Wake is still something of a little sibling in its own backyard. It gets its fair share of press, but not the kind of pub that a Duke or UNC gets, nor does it have the same revolving door of All-American talent that Duke and UNC seem to have. So when Wake gets an exquisite, once-in-a-decade player like Paul who generates that kind of buzz and national attention, it's a very big deal to those who follow the program closely, and they'll naturally try to defend him.

By the way, it was Duke's own Seth Davis who wrote the "Saint Paul" article for SI.

DukeBlueNikeShox
11-03-2009, 01:14 PM
I couldn't stand Julius Hodge and thought he was an arrogant POS w/ no game. I was quite happy Chris Paul did it and got a good laugh from the incident...

allenmurray
11-03-2009, 01:19 PM
I couldn't stand Julius Hodge and thought he was an arrogant POS w/ no game. I was quite happy Chris Paul did it and got a good laugh from the incident...

Irrespective of your feelings about either Paul or Hodge, being glad that one player punched another says more about you than either of them.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-03-2009, 01:33 PM
Irrespective of your feelings about either Paul or Hodge, being glad that one player punched another says more about you than either of them.

^^^ This.

Agreed that I enjoy Paul's amazing skills on the basketball court, but you can't go around clocking players - especially below the belt when everyone's back is turned. It's even more reprehensible than getting caught up in an altercation with another player. It's cheating at it's worst and trying to get a sneaky advantage.

Paul doesn't need to cheat to get an advantage. He's an amazing player. He has fantastic skills, court sight, and plays good team basketball. If he was "gritty" or "passionate" he'd probably be my favorite player of this era. But there's a large divide between playing hard and wanting it the most, and smacking your opponent when the ref is turned around.

CDu
11-03-2009, 02:05 PM
^^^ This.

Agreed that I enjoy Paul's amazing skills on the basketball court, but you can't go around clocking players - especially below the belt when everyone's back is turned. It's even more reprehensible than getting caught up in an altercation with another player. It's cheating at it's worst and trying to get a sneaky advantage.

Paul doesn't need to cheat to get an advantage. He's an amazing player. He has fantastic skills, court sight, and plays good team basketball. If he was "gritty" or "passionate" he'd probably be my favorite player of this era. But there's a large divide between playing hard and wanting it the most, and smacking your opponent when the ref is turned around.

Exactly. Hines Ward is gritty and passionate. Sometimes he crosses the line, but he does so through playing hard. Paul just takes cheap shots. There's a big difference.

Talent-wise, there's no debating the fact that he's one of the best. But he definitely lacks class and character on the court. I simply can't respect players like that.

Tom B.
11-03-2009, 02:19 PM
I couldn't stand Julius Hodge and thought he was an arrogant POS w/ no game.


I didn't care much for Hodge early in his career at N.C. State, but he definitely grew on me.

C'mon, how could you not like this guy? (http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jphollow/julius.html) :)

speedevil2001
11-03-2009, 02:32 PM
Did you look at the youtube video? I don't see it as "gritty" or "passionate" when you are taking groin shots at a player in the middle of a play....

i didnt watch it, but i watch a lot of games of paul.

i dont judge people after watching 1 clip. like some

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-03-2009, 02:32 PM
Yes, Hodge was arrogant, and Paul is a better player - but I'd choose Hodge over Paul if I had to defend one as a former Duke player.

Luckily, we get to defend Battier, Duhon, and Dunleavy instead!
:D

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-03-2009, 02:34 PM
i didnt watch it, but i watch a lot of games of paul.

i dont judge people after watching 1 clip. like some

After re-watching that clip, and reading the article posted at the beginning of the thread, I think that qualifies as a body of work. Some actions make your fantastic play a moot point.

You won't catch me purchasing any OJ Simpson jerseys, but man he could run.

UrinalCake
11-03-2009, 03:03 PM
Not condoning his actions, but in fairness to Chris Paul....when you are 5'10 - 6'0 tall and weigh 175 lbs in a league full of 7 footers and guys who can bench press 185lbs 20+ times, you have to play with a little bit of an edge if you want to survive.

I would think that that would make you NOT want to take cheap shots at your opponents

hc5duke
11-03-2009, 03:04 PM
Irrespective of your feelings about either Paul or Hodge, being glad that one player punched another says more about you than either of them.

I, too, take some joy in certain players getting punched or whatnot, but Hodge definitely wasn't one. hodge was my favorite non dukie around that time.
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jphollow/jules2.jpg

Rudy
11-03-2009, 05:30 PM
I am a Chris Paul fan but never thought he was a saint as a player. The Hodge incident was bad. It may have cost his team the ACC championship since with him on the floor WF was the best team in the tournament that year.

Are all those who don't forgive Paul for the Hodge incident still admirers of Art Heyman? After all, he not only punched a player in the jaw but the opposing coach in the balls, in the same game.

He talks trash??? I always thought MJ was the king of trash talkers in his prime.

SupaDave
11-03-2009, 06:11 PM
I am a Chris Paul fan but never thought he was a saint as a player. The Hodge incident was bad. It may have cost his team the ACC championship since with him on the floor WF was the best team in the tournament that year.

Are all those who don't forgive Paul for the Hodge incident still admirers of Art Heyman? After all, he not only punched a player in the jaw but the opposing coach in the balls, in the same game.

He talks trash??? I always thought MJ was the king of trash talkers in his prime.

Excellent clarity. I'd also like to add that if you kept a camera on 75% of the NBA then you'd see cheap shots 100% of the time. Even our own hallowed Battier has admitted to using tricks of the trade.

Paul is a fiesty guy and he plays with fire (as previously mentioned) but that is no excuse for unsportsman-like conduct. But the court is a battlefield and you never know what's been said to who.

sagegrouse
11-03-2009, 07:33 PM
Please read the entries from the Zen master Julius. Here. (http://thinkexist.com/quotes/julius_hodge/)

sagegrouse

weezie
11-03-2009, 07:45 PM
paul reminds me of isiah thomas: small, tough, pgs that play with a chip on their shoulders.


Now, now, now. I will assume you mean this as a compliment. As a player, Ol'Isiah was one tough son-of-a-gun. And, as the docent of all things Detroit, I like to point out to my young friends here that no one has mentioned how Bill Laimbeer played in a, some would say, "questionable" manner, not me mind you but "some." Paul is small 'taters with absolutely zip to show for his belligerence. Laimbeer follow somebody to the opposing locker room? :D He was too busy getting ready for his next round of golf.
Paul and Rondo, jokesters.

SupaDave
11-05-2009, 01:14 PM
Exactly. Hines Ward is gritty and passionate. Sometimes he crosses the line, but he does so through playing hard. Paul just takes cheap shots. There's a big difference.

Talent-wise, there's no debating the fact that he's one of the best. But he definitely lacks class and character on the court. I simply can't respect players like that.

Steelers WR Hines Ward, was named the league's dirtiest player in a Sports Illustrated poll this week...

BD80
11-05-2009, 02:15 PM
Steelers WR Hines Ward, was named the league's dirtiest player in a Sports Illustrated poll this week...

Every player that voted that Hines was a dirty player would gladly have him on his team.

The defensive players that voted for him hate the thought of offensive players hitting defensive players when they are not in a position to absorb contact, much like a receiver reaching to catch a pass.

The offensive players that voted for him don't like how high Hines sets the bar in terms of effort.

CP3 is not like Hines Ward.

DukeSean
11-05-2009, 02:49 PM
CP3 made a G today

but he made it in a sleazy way.