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Bob Green
11-01-2009, 01:56 AM
Okay, let's get this started!

Duke has won three straight conference games and is riding high. Carolina is coming off a huge defeat of Virginia Tech after starting the season in the Top 25 and then under performing. I expect the Tar Heels will be favored but what's new? We beat State and Virginia as underdogs on the road and I'm looking forward to beating Carolina at Keenan Stadium.

I'm also looking forward to this week's updated Sagarin ratings. We fell from #64 to #69 after beating Maryland in a downpour last week. Virginia was rated #56 prior to today's game so once again we defeated a higher rated team:

http://www.kiva.net/~jsagarin/sports/cfsend.htm

The ratings will be updated sometime tomorrow and the odds from Vegas will post as well:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-football/odds/las-vegas/

Rip'em up! Tear'em up! Give'em hell Duke!

duketaylor
11-01-2009, 02:08 AM
Duke was a 7 point dog to UVA, I'd imagine about a 9.5 dog at unc, and I like our chances;)

I just checked a long-term forecast for next Saturday in Chapel Hell.

It read hot and painful for the baby blue.

9F9F9F9F9F9F9F9F!!!!!!!!

CameronBornAndBred
11-01-2009, 08:08 AM
It's a tough matchup for both sides, so it bodes for a close game. I'm sure Duke and unc fans will experience highs and lows of emotions. I'm looking forward to leaving Kenan on a high, with the sound of the victory bell still ringing in my ears!

davekay1971
11-01-2009, 08:19 AM
Updated weather forecast for Franklin Street on Saturday night: Bitter and angry, with a chance of tears.

9F 9F 9F 9F

roywhite
11-01-2009, 08:59 AM
Will the Heels wear their darker blue jerseys so this looks like a Duke intrasquad game? :)

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-01-2009, 09:07 AM
Will the Heels wear their darker blue jerseys so this looks like a Duke intrasquad game? :)
This game could create a strain on the wardrobe for them.

loran16
11-01-2009, 09:33 AM
Duke was a 7 point dog to UVA, I'd imagine about a 9.5 dog at unc, and I like our chances;)

I just checked a long-term forecast for next Saturday in Chapel Hell.

It read hot and painful for the baby blue.

9F9F9F9F9F9F9F9F!!!!!!!!

9.5? We're talking a UNC team that has one legit game where they won by more than 3 (ECU @ Home). Unlikely to be that high. I think 7.5 again.


Bob, Sagarin has already been released, http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm

We're ranked 63 in the combination ranking, 62 in the ELO ranking (the one that the BCS uses) and 69 in the Predictor Ranking (which measures margin of victory as well).

UNC's about 10 above us.

---------------------------------------------------------
Its funny, but i see this as a good matchup for us. UNC's offense is just slightly above that of Virginia's (with easier matchups thus far as well, see The Citadel and Georgia Southern).
UNC rushes better than UVA but passes worse, so i imagine we'll focus on the run like we did vs VT.

Meanwhile, UNC's Defense as a WHOLE is better than Virginia's, but their pass defense is not (Their rush D is MUCH better than UVA's). At best UNC's pass D is even with Virginia's. So, if Thad can perform like we did this week and finish some of his drives, we CAN take this.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-01-2009, 09:39 AM
9.5? We're talking a UNC team that has one legit game where they won by more than 3 (ECU @ Home). Unlikely to be that high. I think 7.5 again.


Bob, Sagarin has already been released, http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm

We're ranked 63 in the combination ranking, 62 in the ELO ranking (the one that the BCS uses) and 69 in the Predictor Ranking (which measures margin of victory as well).

UNC's about 10 above us.

---------------------------------------------------------
Its funny, but i see this as a good matchup for us. UNC's offense is just slightly above that of Virginia's (with easier matchups thus far as well, see The Citadel and Georgia Southern).
UNC rushes better than UVA but passes worse, so i imagine we'll focus on the run like we did vs VT.

Meanwhile, UNC's Defense as a WHOLE is better than Virginia's, but their pass defense is not (Their rush D is MUCH better than UVA's). At best UNC's pass D is even with Virginia's. So, if Thad can perform like we did this week and finish some of his drives, we CAN take this.

One thing I've learned about Duke - Carolina games over the pasty 60+ years: this will be an intense game. The team's records prior to the game offer little to help predict the outcome. This Duke team is hungry to beat Carolina.

RelativeWays
11-01-2009, 10:42 AM
Will this also double as the status check thread? I would like to think both Duke and UNC fans are excited that this game counts for more than just the victory bell.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-01-2009, 11:06 AM
Will this also double as the status check thread? I would like to think both Duke and UNC fans are excited that this game counts for more than just the victory bell.

It's time for the Victory Bell to come back home.

-jk
11-01-2009, 11:11 AM
Will this also double as the status check thread?

It's Ozzie's job to start that thread. Can't mess with karma.

-jk

davekay1971
11-01-2009, 11:42 AM
Noted on the Duke-Virginia game thread that Nov 7 is apparently Kerlina's homecoming game. I hope the fact that they scheduled us for their homecoming game is drilled into the minds of our players. It's a sign that the 'Holes think nothing's changed in Durham. They come into the season with their top 25 ranking, thinking about an ACC championship and figuring Nov 7 is an automatic win. Time to send a message: Duke Football is NOT who you want to play for homecoming, 'Holes.

Indoor66
11-01-2009, 12:01 PM
It's Ozzie's job to start that thread. Can't mess with karma.

-jk

I really like Ozzie, but his last few threads on this subject have not worked out very well. Maybe he can start an new streak. ;)

DukePA
11-01-2009, 12:06 PM
I really like Ozzie, but his last few threads on this subject have not worked out very well. Maybe he can start an new streak. ;)

We tried that with the last men's basketball game and it still didn't help. I say let Ozzie continue the tradition :cool:

GTHC, GTH!!

OZZIE4DUKE
11-01-2009, 01:18 PM
It's Ozzie's job to start that thread. Can't mess with karma.

-jk
I take my responsibility very seriously. Thanks!

devildeac
11-01-2009, 02:07 PM
I really like Ozzie, but his last few threads on this subject have not worked out very well. Maybe he can start an new streak. ;)

Please, please, please do NOT mention STREAK to Ozzie...:rolleyes:;):o

Indoor66
11-01-2009, 02:22 PM
Please, please, please do NOT mention STREAK to Ozzie...:rolleyes:;):o

LOL to that. :eek:

Rogue
11-01-2009, 03:21 PM
Gthc gth

-bdbd
11-01-2009, 04:55 PM
So how DO we match up with Kerlina?

I have read that their D has a lot of speed and a lot of highly rated and very athletic recruits. I could see them giving our youngish receivers a hard, physical day.

Their Offense doesn't seem to have clicked much yet. Cut certainly has seemed to get more with less (at least based on recruiting rankings).

No doubt, playing in chapel hell they will get the favorite status, but their inconsistency will make Vegas a bit leary. I'm thinking the line finishes the week around 6 up for Kerlina. Yep, we got em just where we want em!!

-BDBD :D

Bob Green
11-01-2009, 06:20 PM
Carolina has opened as a 7.5 point favorite:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college%2Dfootball/odds/las%2Dvegas/

roywhite
11-01-2009, 06:30 PM
So how DO we match up with Kerlina?

I have read that their D has a lot of speed and a lot of highly rated and very athletic recruits. I could see them giving our youngish receivers a hard, physical day.

Their Offense doesn't seem to have clicked much yet. Cut certainly has seemed to get more with less (at least based on recruiting rankings).


Here's everything you'd care to know about the Heels from a statistical standpoint:

http://web1.ncaa.org/football/exec/rankingSummary?org=457&year=2009&week=9

and about the Blue Devils so far this year:

http://web1.ncaa.org/football/exec/rankingSummary?org=193&year=2009&week=9

Which basically confirms a few impressions:
UNC has a very good defense and a not very productive offense
Duke is taking advantage of turnovers and passing very well

CameronBornAndBred
11-01-2009, 06:38 PM
Carolina has opened as a 7.5 point favorite:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college%2Dfootball/odds/las%2Dvegas/
Works for me...we were supposed to lose to State and UVA, too.

loran16
11-01-2009, 06:42 PM
Works for me...we were supposed to lose to State and UVA, too.


http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/duke-unc-game-will-be-televised

IT WILL BE ON TV! Now you just need to find a place with ESPNU.

Still, better than ESPN360.

Also, 7.5 is about what i expected.


Here's everything you'd care to know about the Heels from a statistical standpoint:

http://web1.ncaa.org/football/exec/rankingSummary?org=457&year=2009&week=9

and about the Blue Devils so far this year:

http://web1.ncaa.org/football/exec/rankingSummary?org=193&year=2009&week=9

Which basically confirms a few impressions:
UNC has a very good defense and a not very productive offense
Duke is taking advantage of turnovers and passing very well

The key other points: UNC's pass D is marginally better if that than UVA's (though unlike UVA, UNC faced 2 1-AA teams this year, The Citadel and GSU, so that levels those two). UNC's Run D is hugely better than UVA's.

UNC's run defense is unlikely to be much of a factor. So, in essence, consider the passing matchup to be similar to last week, even if UNC does not run the 3-4 defense.

Offense-wise, UNC is slightly better than UVA.

Sooo, yeah, should be a very similar matchup. Build off last week and we can WIN.

wolfpackdevil
11-01-2009, 07:43 PM
This should be a really good game in chapel-hill next saturday between duke and unc.

Carolina's front 4 on Defense is insanly good. With Marvin Austin and Quinton Sturdivant, our offensive line will have to play an amazing game to give Thad a lot of time.

If thad has time in the pocket for most of the game, Duke should be able to put up a lot of points. This should be a really good game.

Duke- 23
UNC- 20

slinky
11-02-2009, 10:31 AM
Does anyone know of a place to get a streaming broadcast of the game on radio? I don't get ESPNU and local sports bars are a pain around here. I have been thrilled with the games on 360, but it looks like Duke/UNC won't be carried simultaneously on 360. So the next best is the radio broadcast. My city doesn't have a Duke affiliate radio station (at least according to GoDuke), so I'd like to find somewhere to stream it over the 'net.

Any pointers? Thanks!

DukeSean
11-02-2009, 10:42 AM
Does anyone know of a place to get a streaming broadcast of the game on radio? I don't get ESPNU and local sports bars are a pain around here. I have been thrilled with the games on 360, but it looks like Duke/UNC won't be carried simultaneously on 360. So the next best is the radio broadcast. My city doesn't have a Duke affiliate radio station (at least according to GoDuke), so I'd like to find somewhere to stream it over the 'net.

Any pointers? Thanks!

You can usually catch the game on www.wsfl.com, but you'll have to put up with the color commentator. But hey, it's free and you'll have radio access to the game.

roywhite
11-02-2009, 10:45 AM
You can usually catch the game on www.wsfl.com, but you'll have to put up with the color commentator. But hey, it's free and you'll have radio access to the game.

Actually, I don't think free radio access is available any longer. Since ISP has taken over some of the marketing functions, I don't believe the radio affiliates offer a free stream.

goduke.com has "Duke Inside Access" available for Audio/Video or just Audio, and can be purchased annually or monthly.

http://www.goduke.com/liveEvents/liveEvents.dbml?SPSID=22672&SPID=1843&&&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Don't have it myself, so I can't comment on quality, etc.

DukieInKansas
11-02-2009, 10:48 AM
You can usually catch the game on www.wsfl.com, but you'll have to put up with the color commentator. But hey, it's free and you'll have radio access to the game.


Actually, I don't think free radio access is available any longer. Since ISP has taken over some of the marketing functions, I don't believe the radio affiliates offer a free stream.

goduke.com has "Duke Inside Access" available for Audio/Video or just Audio, and can be purchased annually or monthly.

http://www.goduke.com/liveEvents/liveEvents.dbml?SPSID=22672&SPID=1843&&&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Don't have it myself, so I can't comment on quality, etc.

I listened to the 10/31 game online from wsfl - no fee paid.

Indoor66
11-02-2009, 11:06 AM
I listened to the 10/31 game online from wsfl - no fee paid.

Me too.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-02-2009, 11:12 AM
You can usually catch the game on www.wsfl.com, but you'll have to put up with the color commentator. But hey, it's free and you'll have radio access to the game.

Because this is the Internet, I don't have hints like voice inflection or facial expression to help me interpret your comment about the color commentator.

The broadcast is the Duke Radio Network with Bob Harris, Wes Chesson (shoestring play against UNC) and Anthony Dilweg (QB who's held records at Duke). I often choose to listen to the Duke Radio Network in conjunction with any TV coverage. The guys whose voices you hear know many stories, Duke history and inside info not available anywhere else.

This link is free access to the Duke Radio Network. What's not to like?

DukeSean
11-02-2009, 11:20 AM
Because this is the Internet, I don't have hints like voice inflection or facial expression to help me interpret your comment about the color commentator.

The broadcast is the Duke Radio Network with Bob Harris, Wes Chesson (shoestring play against UNC) and Anthony Dilweg (QB who's held records at Duke). I often choose to listen to the Duke Radio Network in conjunction with any TV coverage. The guys whose voices you hear know many stories, Duke history and inside info not available anywhere else.

This link is free access to the Duke Radio Network. What's not to like?

I'll make it easier. Listening to Bob Harris is at times, painful to say the least, especially when he's your first line of information about the game. He routinely gets people's names mixed up, especially Varner/Vernon (sometimes we have a 3rd WR named Verner), and makes premature calls on the field which gets my emotions all weirded up (high-to-low, or low-to-high), ie, saying we picked up a first down when in fact we're short by a yard, or the opposite.

Anyways, I shouldn't complain too much. Could be worse and I could be only following on ESPN Gamecast.

allenmurray
11-02-2009, 11:45 AM
I'll make it easier. Listening to Bob Harris is at times, painful to say the least,

Blasphemer!

Are you a Carolina plant/troll?

watzone
11-02-2009, 11:48 AM
Here are comments form yesterday's media call in show with Coach Cutcliffe

http://bluedevilnation.net/2009/11/cutcliffe-talks-of-the-virginia-game-and-the-upcoming-battle-of-the-blues/

sandinmyshoes
11-02-2009, 11:49 AM
Winnable game. I'm more confident about our abilities than I was two weeks ago. But I'm less confident about UNC's weaknesses than I was two weeks ago.

Married to a UNC fan, I've seen most of their games. Except the patsy games, when I usually find something else to do when it becomes obvious that an upset isn't in the works.

Their defensive line is scary good. Very, very fast. Very good linebackers. Decent but not great secondary.

Their offense has been bad, but I'm worried that a lot of that had to do with the offensive line being hit hard with injuries. I noticed again VPI that they got two starters back (albeit still gimpy) and it showed. Their O-coordinator, whose name escapes me at the moment, impressed me for that game. Could be this is the first game since early in the season where he's had an O-line that gave him enough confidence to expand the play book.

Both teams are young. I think we have fewer starting upperclassmen overall, and they have fewer seniors. So if one team gets a couple of bad breaks, it could cascade.

We have a definate edge at QB. Their qb has a good short passing game, but despite having decent arm strength, seems to lack touch on the long ball. He also seems good for at least one very poor decision leading to a critical turnover per game.

My biggest worries: Their speed on the D-line, and the possibility that a lot of their struggles on offense were the result of a now healing offensive line.

loran16
11-02-2009, 11:50 AM
Blasphemer!

Are you a Carolina plant/troll?

I'm going to assume this is sarcasm. I don't think i've heard Bob call basketball but he's notoriously bad at football coverage.

Like seriously...he'll try and describe everything about a play, fumble around with details (like player names) for 25 seconds.....and only at the END describe the end result of the play (rushed for 5 yards, first down, etc.) He also exaggerates a bajillion things and makes wrong calls at times.

It is painful as hell. I appreciate his views, but he just isn't particularly good at giving me the game without making me want to shoot him at least 3 times during the game.

CameronBornAndBred
11-02-2009, 11:51 AM
Got my seating assignment today (finally), right smack in the middle of the good guys. Should be a blast, I hope we are packed in and loud!

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-02-2009, 11:51 AM
I'm going to assume this is sarcasm. I don't think i've heard Bob call basketball but he's notoriously bad at football coverage.

Like seriously...he'll try and describe everything about a play, fumble around with details (like player names) for 25 seconds.....and only at the END describe the end result of the play (rushed for 5 yards, first down, etc.) He also exaggerates a bajillion things and makes wrong calls at times.

It is painful as hell. I appreciate his views, but he just isn't particularly good at giving me the game without making me want to shoot him at least 3 times during the game.
Would you rather listen to Woody Durham?

slinky
11-02-2009, 11:53 AM
I listened to the 10/31 game online from wsfl - no fee paid.

Brilliant! This is the type of thing I was looking for. I realize radio leaves a lot to be desired, but that's ok. Thanks for all the tips and pointers.

Kfanarmy
11-02-2009, 11:57 AM
This should be a really good game in chapel-hill next saturday between duke and unc.

Carolina's front 4 on Defense is insanly good. With Marvin Austin and Quinton Sturdivant, our offensive line will have to play an amazing game to give Thad a lot of time.

If thad has time in the pocket for most of the game, Duke should be able to put up a lot of points. This should be a really good game.

Duke- 23
UNC- 20

Is 23 "a lot of points? " or is your score prediction optimism tempered by experience? I think it'll be 30-10.

CameronBornAndBred
11-02-2009, 12:07 PM
Brilliant! This is the type of thing I was looking for. I realize radio leaves a lot to be desired, but that's ok. Thanks for all the tips and pointers.
You can always shell out 6 bux and get a monthly audio subscription on goduke and listen that way, too...even cheaper if you pay for a year up front.

DukeSean
11-02-2009, 12:08 PM
Well, my predictions for the UVA were pretty close (I said 27-21) so I'm gonna throw out my predictions for the UNC game, and like my very scientific basis for my last prediction, I'll will proceed to pull these directly from my butt.

Duke over UNC, 24-13.

davekay1971
11-02-2009, 01:26 PM
Well, my predictions for the UVA were pretty close (I said 27-21) so I'm gonna throw out my predictions for the UNC game, and like my very scientific basis for my last prediction, I'll will proceed to pull these directly from my butt.

Duke over UNC, 24-13.

Hopefully your butt maintains it's commendable level of accuracy...

DukieInKansas
11-02-2009, 01:31 PM
You can always shell out 6 bux and get a monthly audio subscription on goduke and listen that way, too...even cheaper if you pay for a year up front.

Who does the audio on the goduke.com subscription?

CameronBornAndBred
11-02-2009, 01:34 PM
Who does the audio on the goduke.com subscription?
Bob & Co...it's the same feed as the radio.

DukieInKansas
11-02-2009, 01:35 PM
Bob & Co...it's the same feed as the radio.

I thought it would be but thanks for verifying it. Have a great time at the game - I hope you leave Kenan with a huge smile on your face!

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-02-2009, 01:36 PM
I thought it would be but thanks for verifying it. Have a great time at the game - I hope you leave Kenan with a huge smile on your face!

I hope we can leave safely without incident!

allenmurray
11-02-2009, 01:45 PM
I'm going to assume this is sarcasm. I don't think i've heard Bob call basketball but he's notoriously bad at football coverage.

Like seriously...he'll try and describe everything about a play, fumble around with details (like player names) for 25 seconds.....and only at the END describe the end result of the play (rushed for 5 yards, first down, etc.) He also exaggerates a bajillion things and makes wrong calls at times.

It is painful as hell. I appreciate his views, but he just isn't particularly good at giving me the game without making me want to shoot him at least 3 times during the game.

Good or Bad - he's OURS! Unlike other schools not to be named, we don't turn on our own. Dislike him if you must, but remember he is part of the family - we try to not turn on our own.

loran16
11-02-2009, 01:54 PM
Good or Bad - he's OURS! Unlike other schools not to be named, we don't turn on our own. Dislike him if you must, but remember he is part of the family - we try to not turn on our own.

Huh? Dude, I'm not saying that i think he's a bad person. i'm saying he's a poor play-by-play guy. That's not turning on one's own.

@Devilinabluedress, is that UNC's commentator? I guess not :-P. But i'm very happy i get ESPNU this week, so i get the best of both worlds.

allenmurray
11-02-2009, 02:02 PM
Bob Harris - the voice of the Blue Devils.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_8z4uEGGls

6th Man
11-02-2009, 02:07 PM
I really hope we beat the Holes Saturday. If we can find a way to do it, I am so anxious to see the environment for the game against Georgia Tech at Wallace Wade. Duke football needs that type of game. Bring all the bandwagon fans back...get Wallace Wade full of blue with a ton riding on the outcome. If there were ever a game to get Duke fans in the seats and loud...that would be it. What a feeling that would be for all of us that have stuck with the team through all the losing. What a feeling that would be for the seniors. WOW!

I am afraid the Tarholes will gives us a big challenge on Saturday. Our guys have a lot of momentum though. Not to mention a lot of payback coming for all of the losses we have to the evil empire over the years. It's time!

I don't even want to say it, but if we should fall to the Holes, the G. Tech game is still huge. We could knock them back to 2 losses also and we would have a tiebreaker over them. 4 games left in the season and we are in the thick of the race. If I am dreaming, I hope I keep sleeping for awhile.

loran16
11-02-2009, 02:08 PM
Bob Harris - the voice of the Blue Devils.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_8z4uEGGls

His voice has gotten lower since then. Also, just the description of that play is far better than anything in football.

Example: The Big Play last week: Thad throws it to Kelly...no varner.....noo uhhhh (*5 seconds passs*) Conner Vernon who's in the open field touchdown!

We're derailing this thread here though, so if you want a bob-harris discussion, lets make a seperate thread for it.
------------------------------------------
Lets. Go. DUKE! 9f9f9f9f9f. etc.

ghendo
11-02-2009, 02:25 PM
Going to be a great game

roywhite
11-02-2009, 02:47 PM
It's now 40 years since the "shoestring" play.

A trick play to beat the Tarheels? Fine with me. :)

killerleft
11-02-2009, 03:28 PM
Bob Harris - the voice of the Blue Devils.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_8z4uEGGls

You know, Bob may not be the best play-by-play guy. But, as far as I know, his descriptions of Duke's finest moments couldn't have been scripted and done any better!

Go, Bob! Whenever Mr. Harris retires will be a sad day. If I could get the radio sound synched up with TV, I'd listen to him every game.

allenmurray
11-02-2009, 03:45 PM
You know, Bob may not be the best play-by-play guy. But, as far as I know, his descriptions of Duke's finest moments couldn't have been scripted and done any better!

Go, Bob! Whenever Mr. Harris retires will be a sad day. If I could get the radio sound synched up with TV, I'd listen to him every game.

I agree - Bob is the man! Whaever he lacks as a play-by-play guy he makes up for in enthusiasm and love for Duke.

CameronBornAndBred
11-02-2009, 05:26 PM
I agree - Bob is the man! Whaever he lacks as a play-by-play guy he makes up for in enthusiasm and love for Duke.
That sums him up for me. I'd rather listen to Bob in football and basketball over anyone esle while the Devil's play, it's like having a seat next to a fan just as die hard as you are....except he can't cuss and call the refs names. I've even listened to him while in the stadium...made for a more informative game.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-02-2009, 06:14 PM
I agree - Bob is the man! Whaever he lacks as a play-by-play guy he makes up for in enthusiasm and love for Duke.
That's true! Having Wes Chesson and Anthony Dilweg adding their comments makes me feel like I have a pass to walk the sidelines with the coaches and the team.

-jk
11-02-2009, 06:17 PM
That sums him up for me. I'd rather listen to Bob in football and basketball over anyone esle while the Devil's play, it's like having a seat next to a fan just as die hard as you are....except he can't cuss and call the refs names. I've even listened to him while in the stadium...made for a more informative game.

Bob's a homer. No doubt. But not so much as Woody. I'll take Bob any day, and twice on Sunday.

-jk

Greg_Newton
11-02-2009, 06:35 PM
You know, Bob may not be the best play-by-play guy. But, as far as I know, his descriptions of Duke's finest moments couldn't have been scripted and done any better!

Go, Bob! Whenever Mr. Harris retires will be a sad day. If I could get the radio sound synched up with TV, I'd listen to him every game.

Second this. I love the guy, both for his enthusiasm and for nostalgia's sake. However, I also agree that it is quite stressful to listen to him if you can't see what's going on, because you usually get his emotional reaction before you get the facts!

loran16
11-02-2009, 06:51 PM
Just to get us back on topic, let's talk about what Duke will need to do to win:

1. The Offensive Line needs to give Thad SOME time to look for his receivers. Last week we gave up 6 sacks. Let's aim for 5 sacks this time against a strong as hell UNC Defensive Line.

2. Duke's running game making tiny appearances here and there to establish a "run threat...." and then getting the hell out of dodge. In the first two drives at UVA, we had double as many running plays as passing plays (17-10 was the ratio in favor of rushing iirc). UVA was known for being a weak run defense (especially compared to its pass defense). UNC....not so much. We should be passing at least 2 out of every 3 plays from the get-go. More Importantly, Duke should NOT BE RUNNING EVERY FIRST DOWN. We fell into this around the 3rd quarter vs UVA, which made it very easy for UVA to plan their defense around us. Passing on first down will allow Thad at least one down (per every 4 downs) where he will have more time to find his receivers for nice gains.

Rather than running, going back to the screen passes (to Scott or Hollingsworth) we used vs Maryland and NC State would be advisable.

3. The Defense needs to stop UNC's run game. UNC's offense is pretty poor, and TJ Yates....is not very impressive. Take away UNC's run game and Yates will have to beat us on his own. And while our secondary is not particularly effective at times, we still want UNC passing in this game.

4. Perhaps key here...Special Teams needs to be perfect. UNC's weakness is their offense, so allowing them to score any points due to their return game will be devastating. Keep them starting their drives from their own 40 or shorter. I don't ask for much. I actually won't be too upset if Snyderwine kicks the ball OOB on kickoffs here.

----------------------------------------------------
Thoughts, yall?

Indoor66
11-02-2009, 07:09 PM
Just to get us back on topic, let's talk about what Duke will need to do to win:

1. The Offensive Line needs to give Thad SOME time to look for his receivers. Last week we gave up 6 sacks. Let's aim for 5 sacks this time against a strong as hell UNC Defensive Line.

2. Duke's running game making tiny appearances here and there to establish a "run threat...." and then getting the hell out of dodge. In the first two drives at UVA, we had double as many running plays as passing plays (17-10 was the ratio in favor of rushing iirc). UVA was known for being a weak run defense (especially compared to its pass defense). UNC....not so much. We should be passing at least 2 out of every 3 plays from the get-go. More Importantly, Duke should NOT BE RUNNING EVERY FIRST DOWN. We fell into this around the 3rd quarter vs UVA, which made it very easy for UVA to plan their defense around us. Passing on first down will allow Thad at least one down (per every 4 downs) where he will have more time to find his receivers for nice gains.

Rather than running, going back to the screen passes (to Scott or Hollingsworth) we used vs Maryland and NC State would be advisable.

3. The Defense needs to stop UNC's run game. UNC's offense is pretty poor, and TJ Yates....is not very impressive. Take away UNC's run game and Yates will have to beat us on his own. And while our secondary is not particularly effective at times, we still want UNC passing in this game.

4. Perhaps key here...Special Teams needs to be perfect. UNC's weakness is their offense, so allowing them to score any points due to their return game will be devastating. Keep them starting their drives from their own 40 or shorter. I don't ask for much. I actually won't be too upset if Snyderwine kicks the ball OOB on kickoffs here.

----------------------------------------------------
Thoughts, yall?

Score one more point than they do.

DukeSean
11-02-2009, 07:19 PM
Just to get us back on topic, let's talk about what Duke will need to do to win:

1. The Offensive Line needs to give Thad SOME time to look for his receivers. Last week we gave up 6 sacks. Let's aim for 5 sacks this time against a strong as hell UNC Defensive Line.

2. Duke's running game making tiny appearances here and there to establish a "run threat...." and then getting the hell out of dodge. In the first two drives at UVA, we had double as many running plays as passing plays (17-10 was the ratio in favor of rushing iirc). UVA was known for being a weak run defense (especially compared to its pass defense). UNC....not so much. We should be passing at least 2 out of every 3 plays from the get-go. More Importantly, Duke should NOT BE RUNNING EVERY FIRST DOWN. We fell into this around the 3rd quarter vs UVA, which made it very easy for UVA to plan their defense around us. Passing on first down will allow Thad at least one down (per every 4 downs) where he will have more time to find his receivers for nice gains.

Rather than running, going back to the screen passes (to Scott or Hollingsworth) we used vs Maryland and NC State would be advisable.

3. The Defense needs to stop UNC's run game. UNC's offense is pretty poor, and TJ Yates....is not very impressive. Take away UNC's run game and Yates will have to beat us on his own. And while our secondary is not particularly effective at times, we still want UNC passing in this game.

4. Perhaps key here...Special Teams needs to be perfect. UNC's weakness is their offense, so allowing them to score any points due to their return game will be devastating. Keep them starting their drives from their own 40 or shorter. I don't ask for much. I actually won't be too upset if Snyderwine kicks the ball OOB on kickoffs here.

----------------------------------------------------
Thoughts, yall?

We really need to give Thad some time/space to make plays. We gave up way too many sacks against UVA. That Thad could still post the numbers he did despite all that is a real testament to how good of a QB he is, and how good his WRs are. UNC's defensive front is pretty scary, so I'm not sure how Cut is gonna prepare for this, but I would say a nice dosage of screens, short passes, etc to keep the pressure off as much as possible.

I like how Cut wants to establish the run, but sometimes you just gotta go with what you're good at. Sometimes you just gotta say, "You know what we're going to do, but we're going to do it anyways, and still beat you doing it because we do it that well." As for the running on every first down thing, I was just wondering when we were gonna pull the PA pass on 1st down, but never seemed to be called.

As for our defense, I just say "keep making the big plays at the key moments" and I'll be happy with that.

Wander
11-02-2009, 07:28 PM
UNC's defensive front is pretty scary, so I'm not sure how Cut is gonna prepare for this, but I would say a nice dosage of screens, short passes, etc to keep the pressure off as much as possible.


Not sure if it was intentionally part of the game plan or not, but against VT we took advantage of their desire to be aggressive and drew their linemen offsides a few times early in the game. I think that helped a lot, and it'd be nice if we could do the same to UNC.

Deslok
11-02-2009, 07:32 PM
Just a thought that occurred to me this morning. Its November, and Duke is in control of its own destiny as far as playing in a BCS game. Not expecting anything like that to happen, but Duke football has come a long way in a short time. 9F!

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-02-2009, 07:32 PM
Based on what Coach Cutcliffe has said over the past week or so plus comments from Thad, those running backs have been multitasking by blocking and carrying out other assignments supporting the offensive line to allow the passing game to continue to fly.... literally.

Duke's use of a roulette wheel full of receivers can be a challenge even to Carolina's big defensive unit. I do think after rotating around among the receivers, if there's a receiver who's hot in running his routes and connecting with Thad's passes, then Duke's going to continue to pass to that receiver as long as it works. Could be another day for the Killer V's.

I anticipate that the Two V's (Vince and Vinnie) are going to play an exceptional game against Carolina. Vince may show an intensity remarkable even for him. Vinnie or Leon could be the name you hear following disruption of the Carolina offensive scheme.

I look for the fourth quarter to be full of decisive plays and efforts to control the clock.

There is a special emphasis on punting in this week's practice.

Don't know what Coach Cutcliffe will gather from studying film of last's year's game with UNC, but he'll find something(s) to exploit. I would love for the players to go into this game feeling that they know everything Carolina's going to do after the in depth study of the films.

Lastly, maybe we'll see a trick or surprise play or two. This has been a recurrent feature of of our games with Carolina over the years.

CameronBornAndBred
11-02-2009, 08:02 PM
Lastly, maybe we'll see a trick or surprise play or two. This has been a recurrent feature of of our games with Carolina over the years.
I only like tricks when they work....which they haven't lately..including this season.

loran16
11-02-2009, 08:44 PM
I only like tricks when they work....which they haven't lately..including this season.

Seconded. Tricks remind me too much of the Ted Roof school of coaching.

The only time i root for a trick is when we line up to punt on the opposing 35-39 yard line. Fake play there every time please...

chrishoke
11-02-2009, 08:52 PM
Just to get us back on topic, let's talk about what Duke will need to do to win:

1. The Offensive Line needs to give Thad SOME time to look for his receivers. Last week we gave up 6 sacks. Let's aim for 5 sacks this time against a strong as hell UNC Defensive Line.

2. Duke's running game making tiny appearances here and there to establish a "run threat...." and then getting the hell out of dodge. In the first two drives at UVA, we had double as many running plays as passing plays (17-10 was the ratio in favor of rushing iirc). UVA was known for being a weak run defense (especially compared to its pass defense). UNC....not so much. We should be passing at least 2 out of every 3 plays from the get-go. More Importantly, Duke should NOT BE RUNNING EVERY FIRST DOWN. We fell into this around the 3rd quarter vs UVA, which made it very easy for UVA to plan their defense around us. Passing on first down will allow Thad at least one down (per every 4 downs) where he will have more time to find his receivers for nice gains.

Rather than running, going back to the screen passes (to Scott or Hollingsworth) we used vs Maryland and NC State would be advisable.

3. The Defense needs to stop UNC's run game. UNC's offense is pretty poor, and TJ Yates....is not very impressive. Take away UNC's run game and Yates will have to beat us on his own. And while our secondary is not particularly effective at times, we still want UNC passing in this game.

4. Perhaps key here...Special Teams needs to be perfect. UNC's weakness is their offense, so allowing them to score any points due to their return game will be devastating. Keep them starting their drives from their own 40 or shorter. I don't ask for much. I actually won't be too upset if Snyderwine kicks the ball OOB on kickoffs here.

----------------------------------------------------
Thoughts, yall?

I feel good about all but #3. The heels midsweason resurgence has been buiult on the back of a much improved and very effective running game. They have a great 1-2 punch with a shifty speed back and a bruiser. What worries me most is they are do a lot with misdirection sweeps with their end with big play potential. We have had a tendancy to overpursue on running plays. I think our ability to stop the run will be sorely tested and will be a key to the game.

SharkD
11-02-2009, 11:30 PM
Bob Harris - the voice of the Blue Devils.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_8z4uEGGls

Gee, who could have posted that to YouTube...?

Oh yeah, moi! I'm probably the only person on Earth who has the 1995-96 Duke Basketball Yearbook CD-ROM.

(And that's the way I remember the '92 Regional game -- watching with the TV muted and Bob Harris on the radio with the play-by-play... and Jay Bilas with the color commentary.)

Back to our regularly-scheduled DBR thread:

GTHC, GHT!

killerleft
11-03-2009, 09:01 AM
My apologies if this link has been posted before. It gives some well-deserved praise to the much-improved Duke defenders.

http://dukechronicle.com/article/absent-recognition-blue-devil-defense-comes-through

devilish
11-03-2009, 09:33 AM
Just a thought that occurred to me this morning. Its November, and Duke is in control of its own destiny as far as playing in a BCS game. Not expecting anything like that to happen, but Duke football has come a long way in a short time. 9F!

Perhaps this should be in the LOST thread, but is it possible to control destiny?

Seriously, though, I have thought the same thing - winning out and playing in 2 extra games would be nice. Not likely, but still possible with only 4 games to play.

roywhite
11-03-2009, 09:42 AM
Perhaps this should be in the LOST thread, but is it possible to control destiny?

Seriously, though, I have thought the same thing - winning out and playing in 2 extra games would be nice. Not likely, but still possible with only 4 games to play.

Perhaps not realistic, but look at what Wake Forest, of all people, did a few years ago in winning the conference and getting to the Orange Bowl.

In today's college football world, examples abound of formerly down teams that rise to prominence. Yes, we can. :)

CameronBornAndBred
11-03-2009, 09:18 PM
Wooohooo!! K gave a great shoutout to the football team in his post game! Said he "might give the veterans Saturday off so they can watch on ESPNU" (toungue in cheek)..sounded genuinely excited about our record and prospects for the rest of the season.

sandinmyshoes
11-04-2009, 08:39 AM
Something to keep an eye out for, I've noticed that UNC's defenders always seem to have a spell or two during a game where they give up a long drive. Oddly, it seems most often to follow a rare score by their offense. It looks to me like the defense gets over eager to force a turnover. They gamble in the defensive backfield, and their line and linebackers start trying to strip the ball instead of focusing on sound tackling.

I am worried because I saw a lot less of that against VPI. They even passed up some possible sacks of VPI's QB to maintain containment. That was the most disciplined I have seen them the entire season (I've watched little or none of their pasty games). However, if they get over-eager against us, Thad can punish them.

OldPhiKap
11-04-2009, 09:07 AM
Meanwhile, the line has moved up to 10.

This is gonna be epic.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-04-2009, 09:21 AM
Meanwhile, the line has moved up to 10.

This is gonna be epic.

Coach Cutcliffe has said this is the biggest game since his arrival at Duke.

DevilWolf
11-04-2009, 09:30 AM
I honestly feel like our running game is designed to take 45 seconds to a minute off of the clock each set of downs, gain about 3 yards to give us a third and 7 situation, and then we call the perfect play to pick up the first down. And repeat.

jafarr1
11-04-2009, 10:07 AM
Seconded. Tricks remind me too much of the Ted Roof school of coaching.

The only time i root for a trick is when we line up to punt on the opposing 35-39 yard line. Fake play there every time please...

In fairness, while the option pass that Kelly threw didn't work (mainly because their DB wasn't fooled and played nice defense on a well-thrown ball), we were successful with a direct snap to Scott on third down when Lewis was walking towards the sideline, pretending to get direction as he usually does. We also did a couple of other little things that might qualify as "trick plays".

There are different levels of trick plays. I'm not a big fan of flee-flickers and the like, but there are wrinkles that can make a difference.

Clock control is certainly part of the running game (UVa ran six plays in the first quarter of our game), but it's also there to keep the defense from selling out against the pass and hopefully set up 2nd and 6 or shorter. You can do far more just by gaining those three or four yards.

billy
11-04-2009, 02:29 PM
I can't find a written reference to this online, but, I understand there were two people caught (in a tree) yesterday presumably spying at the football practice with camera equipment. One got away, the other was questioned but denied speaking English and was let go. Anyone else heard this?

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-04-2009, 02:52 PM
I can't find a written reference to this online, but, I understand there were two people caught (in a tree) yesterday presumably spying at the football practice with camera equipment. One got away, the other was questioned but denied speaking English and was let go. Anyone else heard this?

mmm..... Carolina accused Duke of doing that that very sort of thing back during Wallace Wade's tenure. It may have been the first use of a camera to scout the other team.

Sorry, wrong era!

PDDuke85
11-04-2009, 02:56 PM
Belichick!
:D

killerleft
11-04-2009, 03:29 PM
LOL. It was SMERSHeels, checking out SWX2 (SnyderWine SideWinder) Guided Missiles.

Rogue
11-04-2009, 05:06 PM
It's now 40 years since the "shoestring" play.

A trick play to beat the Tarheels? Fine with me. :)


And the next day headlines where HART TIES LACES, WHILE CHESSON TIES KNOTS



GOOOOOOOO DUKE:cool:



GTHC GTH
9F9F9F9F9F9F9F9F

OldPhiKap
11-04-2009, 09:47 PM
Belichick!
:D

Man, you made milk squirt out my nose with that one.

And I was drinking scotch.

Kfanarmy
11-06-2009, 01:51 AM
Duke football got a few minutes of coverage on ESPN tonight...Discussing the Duke-UNC game this weekend, toward the end of ECU-VT game, commentators were talking about Duke being in a position to fight for the acc title if they win this weekend...I paraphrase: Who could have imagined discussing a potential Georgia Tech - Duke matchup with the ACC title on the line, and we're not talking about Cameron.... Quite a change from a couple of short years ago...

Rogue
11-06-2009, 07:18 AM
9f9f9f9f

DU Band Prez 88
11-06-2009, 02:25 PM
Perhaps not realistic, but look at what Wake Forest, of all people, did a few years ago in winning the conference and getting to the Orange Bowl.

In today's college football world, examples abound of formerly down teams that rise to prominence. Yes, we can. :)

Two notable examples from the Big Ten.

Northwestern - 1996 Rose Bowl 10-1 turnaround season under Gary Barnett, then consistently respectable under the late Gary Walker and now Pat Fitzgerald - in the 70s, 80s and early 90s until Barnett's arrival, their football program was definitely in worse shape than Duke's has ever been.

Wisconsin - many may not know how bad Wisconsin football was until their late coach Dave McClain took over in the late 1970s, I believe - the Badgers were really, really bad for a long time.

shoutingncu
11-06-2009, 02:33 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/12481753/weekend-watch-list-joepas-continued-success-never-ceases-to-amaze



Dickie V: Sorry, Vitale, we don't need your slobbering over Roy and Coach K right now, we've got our own Duke-Carolina in November.

For the first time since the rocks cooled, it seems, the football version of Eight Mile (distance between the schools) means something. Duke needs two more victories for bowl eligibility for the first time in 15 years -- that was 1994, which was also the last time the teams met with winning records. Carolina, also 5-3, is still in last place after that miracle at Virginia Tech last week.

If Duke wins, that likely sets up a showdown for first place in the Coastal next week against Georgia Tech. Wait, Duke playing a big game in mid-November? WWL needs to sit down.

Kimist
11-06-2009, 09:58 PM
Is there ANY way to watch the broadcast over the internet? Can't get ESPNU here, and sports bars are generally over-populated with those in the washed-out shades of blue.

k

YourLandlord
11-06-2009, 10:00 PM
Is there ANY way to watch the broadcast over the internet? Can't get ESPNU here, and sports bars are generally over-populated with those in the washed-out shades of blue.

k

Sounds like a perfect place to be when Duke wins.

gep
11-07-2009, 12:35 AM
if it's on ESPNU, maybe justin.tv will stream it...

YourLandlord
11-07-2009, 12:45 AM
if it's on ESPNU, maybe justin.tv will stream it...

http://myp2p.eu/ , http://atdhe.net/ , http://zomse.com/tv-channel.htm , http://www.channelsurfing.net/

one of these places should have it

Rogue
11-07-2009, 09:37 AM
GAME DAY.... Lace'em up, Strap it on,, MOUNT UP,, Ride to the sound of the cannon fire, there's a war to be fought today.

roywhite
11-07-2009, 09:41 AM
GAME DAY.... Lace'em up, Strap it on,, MOUNT UP,, Ride to the sound of the cannon fire, there's a war to be fought today.

Rip 'em up, tear 'em up, give 'em hell, Duke!

OldPhiKap
11-07-2009, 09:46 AM
Repel them! Repel them! Make them relinquish the ball!

wolfpackdevil
11-07-2009, 10:44 AM
LETS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Biggest game of the year is today at 3:30 on ESPNU!!!

Should be a really fun game. I am pretty certain that Duke's O-Line is not going to be able to contain the front 4 of Carolina. Which means that Thad is gonna have to be extra special for Duke to win.

should be a great one today.


GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Devilsfan
11-07-2009, 11:15 AM
Many people feel that way. I stopped to pick up my tickets and a parking pass and the owner of the local gas station/convenience store, a hugh heels fan, said the spread jumped from 6.5 to 10. Let's hope lots of those fans lose a ton of money.

DukeSean
11-07-2009, 11:39 AM
9f9f9f!!!

Give em hell duke!

airowe
11-07-2009, 11:58 AM
Herbstreit just picked us to win. Corso and a Lt. Col picked Carolina.

We will be underdogs for at least another day.

GTHC, GTH. GTHC, GTH.

DUKE > PUNC.

neuro
11-07-2009, 12:16 PM
I went to bed last night with 'daydreams' of a Duke win, a WAKE win over GT, and duke alone in first place at the end of today. Please please please can dreams come true?

But I don't know how I want my Miami-UVA dream to turn out. I think I'm going to pull for UVA. Of course, all we have to do is win out, and I don't CARE what the other teams do. :)

airowe
11-07-2009, 03:25 PM
Let's Go Duke

LEt's Go Duke

LET's Go Duke

LET'S Go Duke

LET'S GO Duke

LET'S GO DUke

LET'S GO DUKe

LET'S GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

grossbus
11-07-2009, 05:29 PM
where is the O???

FireOgilvie
11-07-2009, 05:38 PM
We're one of the worst running teams in the country and have one of the best passing games in the country, yet we continue to run. We're running WAY too much and we've never seen any gains from it. It doesn't make any sense.

YourLandlord
11-07-2009, 05:43 PM
We're one of the worst running teams in the country and have one of the best passing games in the country, yet we continue to run. We're running WAY too much and we've never seen any gains from it. It doesn't make any sense.

Well the passing isn't working because UNC is one of the best pass defenses in the nation.

You need to establish some run first, so they have to respect that and then you can try to air it out.

Mabdul Doobakus
11-07-2009, 05:51 PM
Oy. Big INT return by UNC.

I don't like that we're running so much on first down. That's the best passing down. It would be one thing if we were picking up any yards, but we're not, so then you're looking at 2nd and 9 at best. We haven't given UNC any reason to respect the run, and it's not like we're making the safeties cheat up to stop it. We're getting stopped at the line of scrimmage. It's not working.

I'd also like to see more screens and rollouts to counter the blitz.

Nice stand by Duke's D. FG attempt coming.

Mabdul Doobakus
11-07-2009, 06:00 PM
Another first down run. Another one yard loss. Once again putting Thad in a hole.

FireOgilvie
11-07-2009, 06:00 PM
Well the passing isn't working because UNC is one of the best pass defenses in the nation.

You need to establish some run first, so they have to respect that and then you can try to air it out.

The pass isn't working because we're not doing it enough. We're wasting downs by running so much. We're averaging less than 2 yards per run and we insist on doing it on first down. It's pathetic. We should have figured out by now that we're one of the worst 10 rushing teams in the country for a reason.

ChrisP
11-07-2009, 06:03 PM
Maybe I missed it but does anyone know why Snyderwine is not playing today? I think he probably could have made a FG on that last play - would have been nice to tie!

Mabdul Doobakus
11-07-2009, 06:04 PM
The pass isn't working because we're not doing it enough. We're wasting downs by running so much. We're averaging less than 2 yards per run and we insist on doing it on first down. It's pathetic. We should have figured out by now that we're one of the worst 10 rushing teams in the country for a reason.

It's worse than that even. Our RBs have 5 yards on 9 carries, just over half a yard per carry.

Son of Mojo
11-07-2009, 06:15 PM
Oh boy...........TD holes............this game has been very disappointing. We've got less than 10 minutes to try and get at least 10 pts. Time to get some business taken care of.

kong123
11-07-2009, 06:19 PM
with a passing offense, we can score 10 pts in the blink of an eye. but... we have 1/3 of the offense we normally have today and they are coming after the QB with reckless abandon.

Kimist
11-07-2009, 06:20 PM
Devils have zero running game and heels are just making life miserable for Lewis on every play.

Very bad sign that heels just had a long drive (no passes?) and Duke barely slowed them down.

k

_Gary
11-07-2009, 06:26 PM
The fat lady has sung. :(

loran16
11-07-2009, 06:27 PM
Just to get us back on topic, let's talk about what Duke will need to do to win:

1. The Offensive Line needs to give Thad SOME time to look for his receivers. Last week we gave up 6 sacks. Let's aim for 5 sacks this time against a strong as hell UNC Defensive Line.



Only 3 Sacks. Lots of Pressure all game, but really it was not even close to as bad as it seemed.




2. Duke's running game making tiny appearances here and there to establish a "run threat...." and then getting the hell out of dodge. In the first two drives at UVA, we had double as many running plays as passing plays (17-10 was the ratio in favor of rushing iirc). UVA was known for being a weak run defense (especially compared to its pass defense). UNC....not so much. We should be passing at least 2 out of every 3 plays from the get-go. More Importantly, Duke should NOT BE RUNNING EVERY FIRST DOWN. We fell into this around the 3rd quarter vs UVA, which made it very easy for UVA to plan their defense around us. Passing on first down will allow Thad at least one down (per every 4 downs) where he will have more time to find his receivers for nice gains.

Rather than running, going back to the screen passes (to Scott or Hollingsworth) we used vs Maryland and NC State would be advisable.

Ummmm, SO WTF CUTCLIFFE.

Seriously....i don't know if we would've succeeded. I have no idea. But we had 18 Rushing attempts and averaged 1.3 Yards per carry....AND THATS INCLUDING TWO HUGE THAD KEEPERS.

WE SHOULD NOT BE RUSHING ON FIRST DOWN. IF WE DO, it should be at most 1 out of every 3 first downs. THIS IS RIDICULOUS.


3. The Defense needs to stop UNC's run game. UNC's offense is pretty poor, and TJ Yates....is not very impressive. Take away UNC's run game and Yates will have to beat us on his own. And while our secondary is not particularly effective at times, we still want UNC passing in this game.

Fail? Yup, Fail. But to be fair, the team was basically constantly on the field, wearing down. Still, this wasn't unexpected.

BlueintheFace
11-07-2009, 06:28 PM
Completely outcoached and tentative LBs= Loss

YourLandlord
11-07-2009, 06:34 PM
The pass isn't working because we're not doing it enough.

This makes zero sense at all.

Perhaps our coaches feel they are improving the running game as the year goes on? Do you want to simply never run again after the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the season goes by? It is possible to get better -- and you're never gonna know unless you try it.

_Gary
11-07-2009, 06:34 PM
This game was won and lost by the offensive and defensive lines of UNC. It's that simple boys and girls. On offense they were able to power run just enough to get the points they needed, and on defense they were in our backfield all day long. It was sick!

weezie
11-07-2009, 06:38 PM
Well, no matter, what, our Devils took one hell of a physical beating from a huge bunch of goons.
Duke left their hearts out there. Coach Cut has got to give them some respect for their grit.
This is the kind of game that will bear fruit someday.
Geez, do I hate the 'holes.

YourLandlord
11-07-2009, 06:38 PM
This game was won and lost by the offensive and defensive lines of UNC. It's that simple boys and girls. On offense they were able to power run just enough to get the points they needed, and on defense they were in our backfield all day long. It was sick!

We simply don't have the athletes yet to compete at this level. We are physically smaller on the lines, where it all starts.

loran16
11-07-2009, 06:38 PM
This makes zero sense at all.

Perhaps our coaches feel they are improving the running game as the year goes on? Do you want to simply never run again after the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the season goes by? It is possible to get better -- and you're never gonna know unless you try it.

Dude, we rushed 19 times for 1.8 yards per rush. That's god awful. AND THIS IS NOT AN UNUSUAL RESULT.

The Rush is completely useless for Duke. Last week we faced UVA who is terrible at stopping the run and we were hardly better.

Rushing on first down, is terrible. On our lone effective drive, we passed 3 times on first and rushed once. WE CAN GET PASSES OFF FOR LESS PRESSURE if its ON FIRST DOWN.

Thad is our best weapon. Our best weapon could use more attempts.

Greg_Newton
11-07-2009, 06:40 PM
This game was won and lost by the offensive and defensive lines of UNC. It's that simple boys and girls. On offense they were able to power run just enough to get the points they needed, and on defense they were in our backfield all day long. It was sick!

Truth. The defensive line especially... our D played pretty well except for the one TD drive, by which point they'd been on the field for 30+ minutes. But it's hard to pass when you can't even drop back without getting dropped to the ground.

That dirty late hit on Thad near the end pissed me off. I'm going for a run.

Cell-R
11-07-2009, 06:40 PM
Hey, two seasons into the era of Cutcliffe and we have played WITH two preseason top 25 teams (this season alone). It sucks to lose, but Duke football is still on the rise.

loran16
11-07-2009, 06:45 PM
Hey, two seasons into the era of Cutcliffe and we have played WITH two preseason top 25 teams (this season alone). It sucks to lose, but Duke football is still on the rise.

Agreed. The Questions for the Future are, Can Duke recruit better D players, and CAN DUKE recruit solid Offensive lineman who can BLOCK FOR THE RUN.

Because i think HOllingsworth and Scott are fine for the future. It's the Line that's the problem.

YourLandlord
11-07-2009, 06:45 PM
Dude, we rushed 19 times for 1.8 yards per rush. That's god awful. AND THIS IS NOT AN UNUSUAL RESULT.

The Rush is completely useless for Duke. Last week we faced UVA who is terrible at stopping the run and we were hardly better.

Rushing on first down, is terrible. On our lone effective drive, we passed 3 times on first and rushed once. WE CAN GET PASSES OFF FOR LESS PRESSURE if its ON FIRST DOWN.

Thad is our best weapon. Our best weapon could use more attempts.

Do you understand football? You can't have 60 pass plays and 5 rush plays over the course of a game. It does not work. You have to make them respect the possibility that you might run, so that you can pass.

dgoore97
11-07-2009, 06:47 PM
I need to hear from Cut after this one. anyone know where to see the postgame presser?

sandinmyshoes
11-07-2009, 06:50 PM
Bottom line is they are just better than we are. If they had not had so many injuries to their offensive line, they wouldn't be scrapping for a bowl bid right now. But thank God their offense isn't anywhere near as good as that defense. That's a scary good defense and even worse is that it's a young defense.

However, I refuse to lose sight of how much we've accomplished so far this season, and the season is not over.

Newton_14
11-07-2009, 06:51 PM
Well, no matter, what, our Devils took one hell of a physical beating from a huge bunch of goons.
Duke left their hearts out there. Coach Cut has got to give them some respect for their grit.
This is the kind of game that will bear fruit someday.
Geez, do I hate the 'holes.

Could not agree more. The holes have a great defense and they are big, fast, and physical, but in the 4th qtr they showed their true colors and played downright dirty. The hit on Vernon was dirty, and the late hit on Thad after he was on his knees getting up from the tackle was dirty too.

GTHC GTH

rthomas
11-07-2009, 06:54 PM
We're one of the worst running teams in the country and have one of the best passing games in the country, yet we continue to run. We're running WAY too much and we've never seen any gains from it. It doesn't make any sense.

You have got to keep the d honest, but it wasn't working today.

PS we have made great strides this year.

Sixthman
11-07-2009, 07:10 PM
We were largely no shows. Not sure why.

loran16
11-07-2009, 07:14 PM
Do you understand football? You can't have 60 pass plays and 5 rush plays over the course of a game. It does not work. You have to make them respect the possibility that you might run, so that you can pass.

Dude, the last 2 weeks, making them "respect the rush" has not made the pass much better.

It doesn't ALWAYS WORK THIS WAY. And Passing 50 times worked quite well on NC State. There is no general football rule that you have to rush in order to pass well. As we can see today.

Replace the runs with Screen Passes, and you're good. This Line CANNOT BLOCK.

---------------------------------------------]

In reality, for Duke Football, we need to PASS on every down in order for the run to be effective...the exact opposite as you keep stating. But when we run more often than not on first down through 3 quarters on first down (We did, and we did by a lot except in the 2nd quarter on that one drive), you're not making them respect anything.

I mean listen, making them respect the run DOESNT WORK if they can play Pass D and STILL HOLD OUR RUN to 1.8 yards per carry. And that's what they're essentially doing. It DOESNT FORCE THEM TO DO ANYTHING.

You're simply reciting a general concept as if its true in every case. It's not.

throatybeard
11-07-2009, 07:22 PM
I realized during the game that in less than 2 seasons, Coach Cut (9-12) already has more wins at Duke than the following coaches:

No Coach (1890-1895) 7-7
Carl Franks (1999-2003) 7-45
Ted Roof (2003-2008) 6-45

The above joke writes itself, of course.

studdlee10
11-07-2009, 07:25 PM
Duke has commitments from Cofield and Tomlinson who are 310 and 285 as high school seniors. As it stands, they would already be among the heaviest players on the Duke line. Not to mention we get another year of development, weight gain from guys like Coleman and David Harding. I think the o-line will get better and will get better pretty fast. Cutcliffe knows what he is doing. We should see some of our success paying dividends in recruiting next year. If Renfree can come in and pickup where Thad left off, we should have no shortage of fast WRs interested in us.

Disappointed with the loss today, but things are looking up for Duke. Something I haven't been able to say in many, many years.

6th Man
11-07-2009, 07:46 PM
I listened to Coach Cut before the game. He talked about how Duke hadn't arrived yet. His remarks proved true watching the UNC game. I think what we have done this year is based on great coaching and a lot of heart. So evident tonight especially that we still don't have the horses yet overall. Have some nice pieces, but got a ways to go to be a complete team. We should be so proud of what has happened in such a short period of time. You definitely can't just flip a switch and have a great football program instantly. The progress so far has been amazing. We have become a program that you must respect and compete against. 3 ACC wins in a row! Awesome! Made a more talented UNC team sweat into the 4th quarter....I am definitely proud of these guys!

Don't forget....if we beat Ga. Tech next week, we are still in the race. They would have 2 losses also. So show up and be loud and proud!

And on a related note...I can't emphasize enough how much I hate UNC, BUtch Davis, and just anything Tarheel.

PumpkinFunk
11-07-2009, 08:25 PM
It was a tough loss, but we held close for 3 quarters, and are still sitting 5-4 and 3-2 in-conference. Considering how things were even 2 years ago? I'll take this over what I went through my freshman year or what my senior friends had to see their freshman year.

We're moving up, and have done amazingly considering where we started when Cut was hired.

As a sidenote: It was nice to meet you and put a face to one of the names on the site, OZZIE.

FireOgilvie
11-07-2009, 08:35 PM
This makes zero sense at all.

Perhaps our coaches feel they are improving the running game as the year goes on? Do you want to simply never run again after the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the season goes by? It is possible to get better -- and you're never gonna know unless you try it.

It makes sense, but I didn't word it very well. We were being forced to throw on 3rd and longs every time because we were running too much on first or 2nd down and consistently getting nowhere. If we throw screen passes or short passes to the tight ends instead of just running it up the middle for 0-1 yards (which is what our RBs averaged), we would have much more to work with and they would have to respect both the short AND long pass. Also, we would have been able to work their backfield more and see how they responded in that situation. As it was, we just ran our RBs into the line, where they were immediately stopped (even when UNC was playing pass defense), because our rushing game is truly one of the worst in the country for a reason.


Do you understand football? You can't have 60 pass plays and 5 rush plays over the course of a game. It does not work. You have to make them respect the possibility that you might run, so that you can pass.

That is true, but your running play doesn't have to be a strict handoff to the RB up the middle, which is what were doing way too often. Duke is 116th in the country in rushing for a reason. Teams know that. We should realize that as well. Why do we continue to try and run on first or 2nd down every single series when we have ZERO success with it? We have the best passing offense in the ACC. UNC absolutely did not respect our running game. They played pass defense, but still stopped us. Why not use short and lateral passes? We needed Thad to get into a rhythm, which he didn't do. Once this happens, THEN we can throw in the occasional run to keep them on their toes. We were trying to use the run to set up the pass, where we should have used the pass to set up the occasional run.


Dude, the last 2 weeks, making them "respect the rush" has not made the pass much better.

It doesn't ALWAYS WORK THIS WAY. And Passing 50 times worked quite well on NC State. There is no general football rule that you have to rush in order to pass well. As we can see today.

Replace the runs with Screen Passes, and you're good. This Line CANNOT BLOCK.

---------------------------------------------]

In reality, for Duke Football, we need to PASS on every down in order for the run to be effective...the exact opposite as you keep stating. But when we run more often than not on first down through 3 quarters on first down (We did, and we did by a lot except in the 2nd quarter on that one drive), you're not making them respect anything.

I mean listen, making them respect the run DOESNT WORK if they can play Pass D and STILL HOLD OUR RUN to 1.8 yards per carry. And that's what they're essentially doing. It DOESNT FORCE THEM TO DO ANYTHING.

You're simply reciting a general concept as if its true in every case. It's not.

Exactly. Look at what Texas Tech does with their wide-open passing game. We're ranked right ahead of them in rushing yards/game, but they average half a yard more per attempt and they have 40 less attempts. They also have 19 TDs to our 5 rushing TDs. Duke, like Texas Tech, should play to our strengths, which is passing the ball. This sets up the run, and when you do run, you catch the other team off-guard, and get better results.

OZZIE4DUKE
11-07-2009, 08:47 PM
Most disappointing. We were outplayed on both sides of the line of scrimmage. Sometimes it just comes down to size and strength, and we don't have enough ... yet.

Bring on GaTech!

OZZIE4DUKE
11-07-2009, 09:05 PM
It was a tough loss, but we held close for 3 quarters, and are still sitting 5-4 and 3-2 in-conference. Considering how things were even 2 years ago? I'll take this over what I went through my freshman year or what my senior friends had to see their freshman year.

We're moving up, and have done amazingly considering where we started when Cut was hired.

As a sidenote: It was nice to meet you and put a face to one of the names on the site, OZZIE.
Nice meeting you today, PumpkinFunk! The DUMB sounded great today, as usual :cool:
You can identify yourself, or not, in this picture! :cool::D

Kewlswim
11-07-2009, 09:06 PM
Hi,

Football is a game where the offensive and defensive lines effectiveness defines whether a team wins or loses. This has always been true and as far as I can tell always will be true. Rest assured Coach Cut knows this. The problem is that the media keeps glorifying the backs--quarter, half, running, etc.--such that the importance of the lines are often overlooked. Even Joe Montana needed a great O-Line to win.

I am so disgusted when I think of what the coaches between Spurrier and Cut did in the form of recruiting. Coach Cut had very few pieces to work with.

GO DUKE!

DukeCO2009
11-07-2009, 09:07 PM
The bottom line is that our offensive line got manhandled by their defensive line. That's really the only reason we lost the game. Sure, we couldn't stop their rushing O, but it all boils down to their beastly D-line disrupting our passing game. Really wish we didn't bother with the token first down runs every possession, too. I think we only passed on first a couple times all game, and the way we were running it we were effectively calling kneel-downs and leaving ourselves with second and longs. I won't bash the coaches for trying to keep the defense honest, but I think we could have done a better job of varying up when we ran; we were simply too predictable. While I wasn't proud of our execution, I was incredibly impressed by our effort. This team has heart, and the seniors in particular have come a long, long way. The very fact that we're talking about this game as one we should've won speaks volumes to the journey these guys have taken. We'll need a couple upsets to play December football, but I wouldn't put it past this bunch.

Also, screw the 'holes. The final few minutes was one of the most classless, dirty, cheap stretches of football I've seen in quite a while. The worst part--and I'm not sure if this came through on TV--was that their fans cheered like crazy every time they drew a personal foul. It was disgusting. There's a right shade of blue and a wrong shade of blue, folks--plain and simple.

Greg_Newton
11-07-2009, 09:11 PM
No postgame comments anywhere? I'm curious as to what his thoughts are.

Didn't it kind of feeling like we were running just to give Thad a break? I mean, he was getting KILLED out there. 19 more pass plays means he gets hit 10-15 more times, at least. Their front 7 was just terrifying.

OZZIE4DUKE
11-07-2009, 09:28 PM
No postgame comments anywhere? I'm curious as to what his thoughts are.

Didn't it kind of feeling like we were running just to give Thad a break? I mean, he was getting KILLED out there. 19 more pass plays means he gets hit 10-15 more times, at least. Their front 7 was just terrifying.
He said we got beat (physically), and sometimes that happens and you watch the film and analyze it, but sometimes you get beat. Then you play your best game of the season the next week (against GaTech).

DU82
11-07-2009, 10:08 PM
Dude, the last 2 weeks, making them "respect the rush" has not made the pass much better.

It doesn't ALWAYS WORK THIS WAY. And Passing 50 times worked quite well on NC State. There is no general football rule that you have to rush in order to pass well. As we can see today.

Replace the runs with Screen Passes, and you're good. This Line CANNOT BLOCK.

---------------------------------------------]

In reality, for Duke Football, we need to PASS on every down in order for the run to be effective...the exact opposite as you keep stating. But when we run more often than not on first down through 3 quarters on first down (We did, and we did by a lot except in the 2nd quarter on that one drive), you're not making them respect anything.

I mean listen, making them respect the run DOESNT WORK if they can play Pass D and STILL HOLD OUR RUN to 1.8 yards per carry. And that's what they're essentially doing. It DOESNT FORCE THEM TO DO ANYTHING.

You're simply reciting a general concept as if its true in every case. It's not.

I take it you were not at the game, so you were unable to see the entire field. Carolina's defensive backfield played very tight on us all game, gambling (and winning) that their D-line could put enough pressure on Thad so that no receiver could go deep on them. By playing tight to the line, they took away the crossing pattern screens (and other short passes) that worked against State, Maryland and UVA. Since that wasn't working, we had to try to run. That was all that was left. Simply, they outplayed us, or at least were the more athletic team out there.

Given what he's done so far, don't you think Cutcliffe knows a little more than the rest of us armchair quarterbacks?

ricks68
11-08-2009, 12:47 AM
Unfortunately, I was able to see the game televised on ESPNU. I did not like what I saw. We need bigger, more talented players. I hope Cut can get more to come here. That's it.:(

ricks

DukeSean
11-08-2009, 01:22 AM
In the college game, I don't think you need offensive balance to be successful as much as you need it in the pro game. GT is a great example of being successful doing basically one thing, but doing it very well. I really don't think we need to run to be successful at passing, especially when your runs only generate 2 YPC or less. I wouldn't advocate never running the ball, but I would be totally fine with a 70/30 or 80/20 pass/rush split with this Duke team. In the future, I hope as we bring some more O-Line talent in that the ratio would become more balanced, but you gotta play heavy to your strengths.

Now, a big reason why we weren't successful passing the ball is that the pass protection was downright atrocious at times. Couple that with the fact that our WRs were getting jammed at the line and thus needed more time to get open and it's no wonder Thad couldn't get into a rhythm with the receivers. Credit UNC's D-line for that, since their pressure give their DB's extra latitude to take risks at the line of scrimmage.

Oh well, guess we're too girly and not passionate and think we're better than we actually are. (referencing that ridiculous UNC "journalism" piece that was shown during the game on ESPNU, lest you start flaming me)

loran16
11-08-2009, 01:49 AM
I take it you were not at the game, so you were unable to see the entire field. Carolina's defensive backfield played very tight on us all game, gambling (and winning) that their D-line could put enough pressure on Thad so that no receiver could go deep on them. By playing tight to the line, they took away the crossing pattern screens (and other short passes) that worked against State, Maryland and UVA. Since that wasn't working, we had to try to run. That was all that was left. Simply, they outplayed us, or at least were the more athletic team out there.

Given what he's done so far, don't you think Cutcliffe knows a little more than the rest of us armchair quarterbacks?

Listen. They covered us incredibly and outplayed us against the pass. But that's because they weren't respecting the run at all, DESPITE GOING WITH IT on a third of our plays!

So if the run wasn't working, when they WERE JUST IGNORING IT....we should have passed more. Yeah, yeah, who knows if it would have been more effective. But look at the UVA game....we caught the UVA Secondary just ONCE to find Conner Vernon wide open for the game-winning score.

We weren't going to find that game winner by rushing. And it wasn't affecting the UNC game plan at all.

------------------------
Also, i hate the Coach Cut knows better argument. Coaches in general tend to play in terms of how they've always done. They are conservative and eschew risky strategies even when they are technically correct (the classic example being that its almost never technically correct to punt on 4th down inside the opposing 40.)

Cut is used to Offense's that can establish some sort of run to increase the pass' effectiveness (His worst team, the 4-7 Ole Miss team of 2004, had a 4.0 Yd/carry average). That's what he bases his decisions off of. He brought HIS system to Duke and has not created a new system just for us.

Sure, he adapted the system somewhat to our capabilities. But I'm convinced that he hasn't done so with regards to our running game. He believes in the conventional wisdom that some people here have spouted (ESTABLISH THE RUN AT ALL COSTS!) and thus he goes by it. Even when this is not technically correct.

So I love Cut. I love his passing attack and his recruiting tactics. But DONT GO TELLING ME OR ANYONE ELSE THAT THE COACH KNOWS BETTER. Because in some cases, he doesn't. Because Coaches are conservative, and its easier for the fans on the outside sometimes to see when that is the WRONG thing to be.

Which is the case here.

Bob Green
11-08-2009, 03:21 AM
But that's because they weren't respecting the run at all, DESPITE GOING WITH IT on a third of our plays!

"A third of our plays" is a stretch. Box scores are misleading as QB sacks are counted as a running play. We ran 19 times and passed 35 times. However, Thad Lewis "rushed" 10 times with three of those runs being QB sacks and at least three more being the result of him running for his life on a called pass play. Of his ten rushes, I would only label four of them as called QB runs so we actually only ran 13 running plays in the game. Thad ran one option play and three QB draws. Thirteen running plays out of 54 total snaps equals 24 percent. So we ran the ball on less than one fourth of our plays.

What I do not understand with our running game is why we seem to only try to pound the ball straight up the middle. Why not try some misdirection plays or end around type runs to try to counter defensive aggressiveness and get our ball carriers outside with some room to maneuver.

DU82
11-08-2009, 09:50 AM
Listen. They covered us incredibly and outplayed us against the pass. But that's because they weren't respecting the run at all, DESPITE GOING WITH IT on a third of our plays!

So if the run wasn't working, when they WERE JUST IGNORING IT....we should have passed more. Yeah, yeah, who knows if it would have been more effective. But look at the UVA game....we caught the UVA Secondary just ONCE to find Conner Vernon wide open for the game-winning score.

We weren't going to find that game winner by rushing. And it wasn't affecting the UNC game plan at all.

------------------------
Also, i hate the Coach Cut knows better argument. Coaches in general tend to play in terms of how they've always done. They are conservative and eschew risky strategies even when they are technically correct (the classic example being that its almost never technically correct to punt on 4th down inside the opposing 40.)

Cut is used to Offense's that can establish some sort of run to increase the pass' effectiveness (His worst team, the 4-7 Ole Miss team of 2004, had a 4.0 Yd/carry average). That's what he bases his decisions off of. He brought HIS system to Duke and has not created a new system just for us.

Sure, he adapted the system somewhat to our capabilities. But I'm convinced that he hasn't done so with regards to our running game. He believes in the conventional wisdom that some people here have spouted (ESTABLISH THE RUN AT ALL COSTS!) and thus he goes by it. Even when this is not technically correct.

So I love Cut. I love his passing attack and his recruiting tactics. But DONT GO TELLING ME OR ANYONE ELSE THAT THE COACH KNOWS BETTER. Because in some cases, he doesn't. Because Coaches are conservative, and its easier for the fans on the outside sometimes to see when that is the WRONG thing to be.

Which is the case here.

No, I don't think it is.

My point about seeing the game live is that if you only watched on TV, you didn't get the full picture. It's real easy to sit back at home and say "we need to pass more, and forget the run". My question to you is "just how the heck were we supposed to pass it when their defense took the short routes away?"

They weren't the UVA secondary. There wasn't any play when the long route would have worked, because their D-line (combined with our O-line) didn't give Thad enough time for a receiver to break free and get behind their defense.

Since you know more than the coaching staff, exactly how would you propose we do more successful passing plays than we did against that defense?

What's the difference between them "ignoring the run" and us running 100% passing plays? Isn't the result the same? As I mentioned earlier, they gambled (ie designed their defense) that they could cover our receivers tight to take away what has worked for us in past weeks, and not give up big plays either passing (our strength) and that since they were playing tight, they would stop our running game (not so strong, to say the least.) They won that gamble.

Given our offensive game plan against State, for instance, in passing almost every down, I don't think the coaches are trying the run just because they think we should run that often, or because that's what they've always done, but because in this case the run had a better chance of doing things than the pass against this defense. Even then, we only tried running on 25% of our plays. (Thanks, Bob Green, for that review.) Based on our personnel, once their defense were successful in taking away the short pass, we didn't really have a chance to win this game unless they made mistakes. They didn't make any big ones to allow us to break off any big play (other than special teams, with the blocked punt and a couple of kick returns.)

And unless you're a football coach, then yes, Cutcliffe knows better than the rest of us.

loran16
11-08-2009, 10:10 AM
EDIT: @ Bob, you are correct. And yeah, we should try other RB plays that go up the middle. :-/


No, I don't think it is.

My point about seeing the game live is that if you only watched on TV, you didn't get the full picture. It's real easy to sit back at home and say "we need to pass more, and forget the run". My question to you is "just how the heck were we supposed to pass it when their defense took the short routes away?"

They weren't the UVA secondary. There wasn't any play when the long route would have worked, because their D-line (combined with our O-line) didn't give Thad enough time for a receiver to break free and get behind their defense.

Since you know more than the coaching staff, exactly how would you propose we do more successful passing plays than we did against that defense?

......See above. I'm not saying that I know how to coach and how to diagram passing plays. I'm saying that i believe that it was the wrong coaching decision to run so much (as Bob stated, up the middle).



What's the difference between them "ignoring the run" and us running 100% passing plays? Isn't the result the same? As I mentioned earlier, they gambled (ie designed their defense) that they could cover our receivers tight to take away what has worked for us in past weeks, and not give up big plays either passing (our strength) and that since they were playing tight, they would stop our running game (not so strong, to say the least.) They won that gamble.

....Okay, so the point being argued here by many posters is that we should run to make UNC respect the run and have to adjust their D to cover it. If that's the case, we shouldn't have rushed, since neither UNC nor UVA was adjusting their defense. They weren't respecting the run, so this purpose was null and void.

Are you suggesting though that because they were playing the pass our run might have been our best chance? Because that is utterly ridiculous. The only game this year we've had rushes of any effectiveness was NC Central. We DONT BREAK LONG RUNS. They're simply just not effective at doing this.

Listen, UNC might have been able to stop an entirely passing offense. We're talking hypotheticals here.

BUT ARE YOU TELLING ME that you think the odds that a run play would be successful are higher than the odds of a passing play, where successful equals at least a 20 yard play? UNC might've stopped 90% of these extra passing plays, but all we need is for one mistake on their part and BAM! TOUCHDOWN.

one mistake on a rushing play by UNC? BAM! 5 yards. Yep, clearly running was correct.



Given our offensive game plan against State, for instance, in passing almost every down, I don't think the coaches are trying the run just because they think we should run that often, or because that's what they've always done, but because in this case the run had a better chance of doing things than the pass against this defense. Even then, we only tried running on 25% of our plays. (Thanks, Bob Green, for that review.) Based on our personnel, once their defense were successful in taking away the short pass, we didn't really have a chance to win this game unless they made mistakes. They didn't make any big ones to allow us to break off any big play (other than special teams, with the blocked punt and a couple of kick returns.)

And unless you're a football coach, then yes, Cutcliffe knows better than the rest of us.

And i guess you're one of the silly people who thinks Coach K is infallible too? Coaches can be wrong....they're WRONG ALL THE TIME. Particularly in decisions of in-game strategy. Coaches do not like to make drastic adjustments to what has always been their game plan.

I'm not saying that this means that they're bad coaches (for example, i have no idea how to do recruiting, i have no idea how to prep players or how to diagram plays, and i think anyone without that experience is going to have a hard time criticizing Cut or Coach K about these things in a rational manner), but it means that we the fans CAN BE RIGHT and Cut CAN BE WRONG on things like in-game decisions.

(To give you another example: A professor a few years back showed that it may NEVER be correct to Punt unless in extreme circumstances. The case for not-punting was especially blatant in the opponent's field. This has been shown to be correct.

And yet, Coaches still make the wrong move and punt on situations like 4th and 5 inside the opponents' 40. Bad coaches? No. Just conservative and thus making the WRONG DECISIONS.

calltheobvious
11-08-2009, 01:03 PM
It seems that time-of-possession isn't being given nearly enough weight in assessing Cut's play-calling calculus.

Duke's defense was on the field, uh, a lot in this game. Cutcliffe knew that was probably going to be the case, and developed a strategy to that gave his team a chance to win despite that fact. The difficulty with his strategy of continuing to run the ball (ineffectively)--designed to minimize the number of 55-to-70-second three-and-outs--is that you absolutely cannot afford to turn the ball over or have the field quickly flipped on you. And with a little bit of time left in the third quarter, things looked as good as CDC could have hoped: down three with the ball in good field position. Of course the big Carolina interception was the dagger; but stuff happens, and I think that Cutcliffe's strategy was optimal, if ultimately unsuccessful.

To focus so much on average yardage-per-play on passes versus runs is to ignore not only defensive snaps forced, but also the very important variances associated with each. If Duke had been even more pass-dominant than they were, total offense might indeed have increased somewhat, but so probably would UNC's, because it would have led to even greater TOP for the Heels, and the Duke defense that was exhausted in the fourth quarter would have been even more tired, and might not have kept things close as long as they did.

As for the criticisms of the particular types of running plays called, I find such arguments quite weak. One of Duke's issues yesterday was a tremendous speed gap between RBs and the UNC front seven. When that's the case, your only chance is to run right at the defense in hopes that decreasing their reaction time will allow the slower RB time to hit a crease, slip a tackle, etc, and actually do something positive. There are too many things that have to go perfectly for a Duke outside-run to be effective that it's simply not worth calling much against a fast defense.

As an Auburn fan during football season, I'm quite familiar with how frustrating it is to be rooting for a team that just isn't yet in position to do what the coaching staff would prefer. But when there is a substantial talent gap between the good guys and their opponents, we as fans shouldn't allow our perceptions of our teams' strengths to make us forget about compensations that must be made due to weaknesses.

Cut was right yesterday to manage the game as he did. Not because he's the head coach and nobody else is, but because he did an optimal job of doing the discounting he's paid to do. There will be brighter days against UNC and others, and those days will come after bigger and stronger O-lineman are joined by stronger and faster running backs. Winning is a process, one that Cutcliffe has well underway at Duke.

Fantastic effort, team. I look forward to many more, and with improved outcomes.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-08-2009, 01:16 PM
It seems that time-of-possession isn't being given nearly enough weight in assessing Cut's play-calling calculus.

Duke's defense was on the field, uh, a lot in this game. Cutcliffe knew that was probably going to be the case, and developed a strategy to that gave his team a chance to win despite that fact. The difficulty with his strategy of continuing to run the ball (ineffectively)--designed to minimize the number of 55-to-70-second three-and-outs--is that you absolutely cannot afford to turn the ball over or have the field quickly flipped on you. And with a little bit of time left in the third quarter, things looked as good as CDC could have hoped: down three with the ball in good field position. Of course the big Carolina interception was the dagger; but stuff happens, and I think that Cutcliffe's strategy was optimal, if ultimately unsuccessful.

To focus so much on average yardage-per-play on passes versus runs is to ignore not only defensive snaps forced, but also the very important variances associated with each. If Duke had been even more pass-dominant than they were, total offense might indeed have increased somewhat, but so probably would UNC's, because it would have led to even greater TOP for the Heels, and the Duke defense that was exhausted in the fourth quarter would have been even more tired, and might not have kept things close as long as they did.

As for the criticisms of the particular types of running plays called, I find such arguments quite weak. One of Duke's issues yesterday was a tremendous speed gap between RBs and the UNC front seven. When that's the case, your only chance is to run right at the defense in hopes that decreasing their reaction time will allow the slower RB time to hit a crease, slip a tackle, etc, and actually do something positive. There are too many things that have to go perfectly for a Duke outside-run to be effective that it's simply not worth calling much against a fast defense.

As an Auburn fan during football season, I'm quite familiar with how frustrating it is to be rooting for a team that just isn't yet in position to do what the coaching staff would prefer. But when there is a substantial talent gap between the good guys and their opponents, we as fans shouldn't allow our perceptions of our teams' strengths to make us forget about compensations that must be made due to weaknesses.

Cut was right yesterday to manage the game as he did. Not because he's the head coach and nobody else is, but because he did an optimal job of doing the discounting he's paid to do. There will be brighter days against UNC and others, and those days will come after bigger and stronger O-lineman are joined by stronger and faster running backs. Winning is a process, one that Cutcliffe has well underway at Duke.

Fantastic effort, team. I look forward to many more, and with improved outcomes.

Thank you for you comments. You brought some important points to the conversation. I hope you see some well deserved improvement at Auburn. You've got some really good coaches to lead the way.

I don't remember anyone else mentioning the matter of avoiding injuries yesterday, but it was definitely on my mind as I watched the heavy hitting that those big guys were giving the Duke players. Seeing it under the glare of those concentrated lights in Kenan made a much bigger impression that anything I've seen on TV. The photos on the N&O web site certainly bring home how hard and often our guys were pummeled. At this point in the season, we don't want any of our guys, who have generally played well, sustaining significant injuries. Despite the claim over there that the rivalry doesn't mean much anymore, the Carolina players went after Duke players with an intensity that seemed overblown.

Ima Facultiwyfe
11-08-2009, 01:33 PM
I just watched it and noticed for the first time I can remember, he finally commented on bad calls and on the out-of-bounds and late hits. Carolina was a bigger, stronger team. They didn't have to resort to dirty play, bless their hearts. :rolleyes:
Love, Ima

OZZIE4DUKE
11-08-2009, 01:43 PM
I, for one, would like to have seen us try to run outside a time or two. Simple quick pitch tosses to Desmond Scott to see if he could get outside the DE. I suggested that at halftime to Devildeac when he asked me what I would do differently in the second half to generate some offense. I don't think the end around play would have worked because the defensive linemen's penetration was so deep, so often, that they would have been "in the way" of our ends crossing the backfield.

And for what it's worth, sitting in the third row of the stands absolutely stinks. I was on the aisle across from the DUMB. Other than when play was in the near endzone (open end, near the scoreboard), I couldn't see squat. Had to watch most of the game on the scoreboard screen. I wish carolina had gotten rid of the old track around the football field and lowered the playing field about 10 feet... :eek::D:cool:

Kewlswim
11-08-2009, 01:43 PM
I just watched it and noticed for the first time I can remember, he finally commented on bad calls and on the out-of-bounds and late hits. Carolina was a bigger, stronger team. They didn't have to resort to dirty play, bless their hearts. :rolleyes:
Love, Ima

Hi Ima,

I think that Butch Davis is sort of known for that. I seem to remember his teams being borderline dirty at Miami.

GO DUKE!

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-08-2009, 01:49 PM
Hi Ima,

I think that Butch Davis is sort of known for that. I seem to remember his teams being borderline dirty at Miami.

GO DUKE!

It's not as if he introduced this style of play there, is it?

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-08-2009, 01:55 PM
While we play GA Tech, over at the Shrine in the Pines, the big boys will be welcoming Miami, another paragon of virtue on the field.

calltheobvious
11-08-2009, 02:03 PM
While we play GA Tech, over at the Shrine in the Pines, the big boys will be welcoming Miami, another paragon of virtue on the field.

To be fair, Randy Shannon's crew are not your father's Miami in terms of their level of sportsmanship. And Shannon deserves a great deal of credit for that fact.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/dave_hyde/09/23/shannon/index.html

Kewlswim
11-08-2009, 02:12 PM
It's not as if he introduced this style of play there, is it?

However, he could have changed the culture. As head coach he could say, "No dirty play and any player who is involved in it is off this team." I guess he found a good home given his M.O.

GO DUKE!

Wander
11-08-2009, 02:46 PM
Thad ran one option play and three QB draws.

Speaking of which... why do we run the option play, ever? I'm fairly certain we average about negative two yards from it this year.

devildeac
11-08-2009, 02:56 PM
I just watched it and noticed for the first time I can remember, he finally commented on bad calls and on the out-of-bounds and late hits. Carolina was a bigger, stronger team. They didn't have to resort to dirty play, bless their hearts. :rolleyes:
Love, Ima

What bad calls? Ozzie and I only commented on 1 in particular (our "gunner" being pushed/blocked into their punt return guy and we got flagged for "kick interference") and it did not cost us any points. Maybe a catch by one of their WR that looked liked it was trapped. Again, not a factor.

I think I counted about 6 late hits/dead ball fouls/unsportsmanlike calls against them. Wonder who they thought they were, vt? Dirty b@st&rds.

devildeac
11-08-2009, 03:20 PM
I, for one, would like to have seen us try to run outside a time or two. Simple quick pitch tosses to Desmond Scott to see if he could get outside the DE. I suggested that at halftime to Devildeac when he asked me what I would do differently in the second half to generate some offense. I don't think the end around play would have worked because the defensive linemen's penetration was so deep, so often, that they would have been "in the way" of our ends crossing the backfield.

And for what it's worth, sitting in the third row of the stands absolutely stinks. I was on the aisle across from the DUMB. Other than when play was in the near endzone (open end, near the scoreboard), I couldn't see squat. Had to watch most of the game on the scoreboard screen. I wish carolina had gotten rid of the old track around the football field and lowered the playing field about 10 feet...

Next time, get your own ticket (:p:rolleyes:;)). There were several advantages:

1. the band kept us from having to listen to repeated chants of "tar...heels" by playing loudly
2. the band taught us the cheer is really "tar...holes":cool:
3. the A-buse cheer for a sack by our D
4. V-O with their arms held aloft for a big play by big Vince
5. the "our ball" cheer when their possible fumble was being reviewed
6. A "we want Paulus" cheer after a couple bad plays by their QB.

Our D played fairly well stopping 2 long drives and 1 short drive for FGs and only allowing about 310 yards total. Stopping them once on 3rd and short (or long) on their TD drive plus our inability to put together 2-3 consecutive 1st downs and score a TD when we got the great field position on their 37 once (coupled with that INT) woulda/coulda/shoulda made a huge difference in the game, as in the difference 'tween a loss and a win.

After Wake's near miss, I not sure whether that means they are far better than we think and any more wins for us will be surprises, or it means we have realistic expectations of beating both of them and finishing 7-5. I think Miami becomes much more difficult to beat after their destruction of uva yesterday.

(BTW, Ozzie, "jk" about the seats. I didn't like them much either but we did get a good view of the cheerleaders and the company was pretty good.)

devildeac
11-08-2009, 03:22 PM
Speaking of which... why do we run the option play, ever? I'm fairly certain we average about negative two yards from it this year.

To set up the pass, of course...:rolleyes:;)

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-08-2009, 04:04 PM
Next time, get your own ticket (:p:rolleyes:;)). There were several advantages:

1. the band kept us from having to listen to repeated chants of "tar...heels" by playing loudly
2. the band taught us the cheer is really "tar...holes":cool:
3. the A-buse cheer for a sack by our D
4. V-O with their arms held aloft for a big play by big Vince
5. the "our ball" cheer when their possible fumble was being reviewed
6. A "we want Paulus" cheer after a couple bad plays by their QB.

Our D played fairly well stopping 2 long drives and 1 short drive for FGs and only allowing about 310 yards total. Stopping them once on 3rd and short (or long) on their TD drive plus our inability to put together 2-3 consecutive 1st downs and score a TD when we got the great field position on their 37 once (coupled with that INT) woulda/coulda/shoulda made a huge difference in the game, as in the difference 'tween a loss and a win.

After Wake's near miss, I not sure whether that means they are far better than we think and any more wins for us will be surprises, or it means we have realistic expectations of beating both of them and finishing 7-5. I think Miami becomes much more difficult to beat after their destruction of uva yesterday.

(BTW, Ozzie, "jk" about the seats. I didn't like them much either but we did get a good view of the cheerleaders and the company was pretty good.)

The N&O's photo gallery of the game is a great, quick summary of much of what happened. Our guys did make some really good plays which show up in the pictures. http://www.newsobserver.com/galleries/gallery/181661.html

OZZIE4DUKE
11-08-2009, 04:40 PM
(BTW, Ozzie, "jk" about the seats. I didn't like them much either but we did get a good view of the cheerleaders and the company was pretty good.)
The ticket was greatly appreciated! :cool: And you're right, our view of the cheerleaders was truly outstanding!

SharkD
11-08-2009, 11:22 PM
Maybe I missed it but does anyone know why Snyderwine is not playing today? I think he probably could have made a FG on that last play - would have been nice to tie!

A google search led me to the darkside (by which I mean the lighter shade of blue side):

The answer is in the last paragraph of Coach Cutcliffe's postgame comments, quoted on http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/110709aab.html.


"We were fortunate it was as close as it was when it was, and made a decision to go for it on fourth down there on our 35. Snyderwine, I was informed, strained a quad in pregame warm-ups, so that's why Maggio was doing the kicking. I just didn't feel good about trying a kick in that circumstance. I did feel good that we would make it on fourth down but they got their hand on the ball and we didn't successfully complete the fourth down."

Bob Green
11-09-2009, 06:43 AM
I'm always sadden by an athlete being injured. Hopefully Shaun Draughn makes a speedy and full recovery:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/northcarolina/story/182319.html


Junior Shaun Draughn, UNC's leading rusher, fractured his left shoulder blade on the first play of the game and will miss the rest of the season.

Udaman
11-10-2009, 03:18 PM
Make no mistake about it...this was poor coaching. Actually, let me rephrase that - THIS WAS AWFUL COACHING. AWFUL! AWFUL! AWFUL! AWFUL!

Now, I'm a coach Cutliffe fan. I think he makes too much (but so do all Div 1 coaches, really)...but he clearly has a talent for offense, he knows how to motivate, he's a good QB coach. He's a massive upgrade over what we have had in the past, for certain.

But this game...he was brutal. And the loss, really rests on him.

Why?

The last few games (really, our entire season) has shown that we cannot run the ball. We simply can't. We are the worst rushing team just about in Division 1. But...we have a really good QB, we have good receivers, and our line is pretty good at defending for the pass. Now, I know some will say - "You cannot win a game just passing the ball," but in college, I don't believe that. In fact, when you aren't as big and strong as the other guys, the way you win is by mixing it up. You go with an exotic offense (see Wake, or TCU, or Texas Tech). You put 5 WR's on the field (see Spurrier way back with Duke), you try to confuse the defense - because these people are just kids, and they can be confused. And this year, we have actually won games by pretty much just passing (see State, NC).

So - what did we do against UNC? Here's our possession charts

1st Possession (Down 0-3): 1st Down....Rush for 1 yard gain. Next play, clearly had to pass, sack. Next play pass. Then punt

2nd Possession (Down 0-3): Run...4 yard gain. Incomplete pass. Incomplete pass. Punt

3rd Poss: (after great field position due to blocked punt, still down 0-3)...1st down run by Lewis for a 6 yard loss. 2nd down - pass for first down. 1st down...run 1 yard gain. 2nd down incomplete pass. 3rd down 8 yard pass gain. 4th and 1 from their 5 yard line...we go for the field goal. Bad decision, if you ask me...Now tied 3-3

4th Poss: rush for 4 yards...incomplete pass...pass for 1st down. Incomplete pass...rush for 2 yard loss... pass for 6 yards...punt

5th Poss: Pass for 12 yards...rush for no gain...incomplete pass...pass for 9 yards....go for it on 4th and 1 and get it rushing....pass for 3 yards...pass for 3 yards...pass for 7yards...UNC commits penalty...pass for 4 yards...kick a field goal. Tie 6-6

6th poss (start of 2nd half)....rush for 1 yard...rush for 14 yards...rush for 12 yards....pass for 6 yards...incomplete pass...incomplete pass...punt

7th Poss: after penalty gives us 1st and 5...rush for 4 yard gain...rush for 4 yard loss...incomplete pass...punt

8th Poss: (great field position)....run for 1 yards...pass for 4 yards...Interception

9th Poss (down 9-6 now) rush for 1 yard loss....incomplete pass...pass for 7 yards....go for it on 4th down (on their 35 yard line)...incomplete.

Caroline goes down and scores...now down 16-6

10th Poss: Rush for 3 yards...incomplete pass...sack....Punt

11th Poss (now down 19-6)....pass, pass, pass, pass, sack, pass, int


So...if you ignore our final drive, when we were down by 13 and had to pass....we had 9 first downs on drives...and then 10 more posessions where we had the ball first and 10. So that's 19 times we had a choice with what to do on first down...we ran the ball 13 times and passed 6. This with a team that CANNOT run the ball. Why on Earth would we do that? Seriously. Our play calling on 1st down basically guaranteed that we could not and would not win this game....and that falls completely on the coaches.

And when you have 4th and 1 on their 5 yard line in the first half, just down 3-0....YOU GO FOR IT. We are not Florida, playing safe to try and make sure we get the national championship game. We need to act and feel confident and aggressive. Kicking that field goal basically told the other team we were scared, and playing tight.

Here's the stunner to me. We play Georgia Tech this weekend...they are much better than UNC (better offense and defense)...and they are only favored by 10 1/2. Maybe Duke can pull it out....maybe...but the ONLY way will be if we call a spade a spade and basically give up the run - especially on first down.

Troublemaker
11-10-2009, 03:41 PM
I have to side with the folks who think we were simply just outmanned and coaching wasn't an issue here. I bet if we had just "passed more" throughout the game, UNC would've beat us much worse. Their defense just has more talent than our offense. It was strength against strength and they were much stronger, with their d-line whipping our o-line and their coverage blanketing our receivers. Cut is doing his best to bring in better talent but, at this point in time, UNC still has appreciably more talent/athletes than Duke. There's no way I can say coaching lost this game.

And regardless of whether you agree or disagree, I'm just happy that Cut came to Duke and has developed a passing game good enough that he is criticized for not using it enough. This is much better than the days when Duke had no strength at all to speak of, in any unit on offense or defense.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-10-2009, 04:03 PM
I have to side with the folks who think we were simply just outmanned and coaching wasn't an issue here. I bet if we had just "passed more" throughout the game, UNC would've beat us much worse. Their defense just has more talent than our offense. It was strength against strength and they were much stronger, with their d-line whipping our o-line and their coverage blanketing our receivers. Cut is doing his best to bring in better talent but, at this point in time, UNC still has appreciably more talent/athletes than Duke. There's no way I can say coaching lost this game.

And regardless of whether you agree or disagree, I'm just happy that Cut came to Duke and has developed a passing game good enough that he is criticized for not using it enough. This is much better than the days when Duke had no strength at all to speak of, in any unit on offense or defense.
You've hit the major point to take from Saturday's game. The Carolina players were so much bigger and faster than almost all our guys on both offense and defense; it's amazing there weren't more injuries to Duke players. The improved conditioning of the our players may have helped them stand up to the repeated physical beatings that took place.

Having our place kicker sustain an injury in warm ups also hurt us before the coin was even tossed. Some of the play calling which has been ridiculed from the vantage point of a recliner took place because our place kicker couldn't get out there when we needed him.

The second year of crawling out of the basement is harder than the first. I appreciate the tenacity of our players and coaches and look forward to seeing them play GA Tech Saturday.

roywhite
11-10-2009, 04:15 PM
I have to side with the folks who think we were simply just outmanned and coaching wasn't an issue here. I bet if we had just "passed more" throughout the game, UNC would've beat us much worse. Their defense just has more talent than our offense. It was strength against strength and they were much stronger, with their d-line whipping our o-line and their coverage blanketing our receivers. Cut is doing his best to bring in better talent but, at this point in time, UNC still has appreciably more talent/athletes than Duke. There's no way I can say coaching lost this game.



As the saying goes, "It's not about the X's and the O's it's about the Jimmys and the Joes."

My take is the same as Troublemaker. The biggest personnel need IMO, which Coach Cut is trying to address in his recruiting (with some promising steps), is size and strength on the Offensive Line, and also speed and power in the Running Back area.

The quality of coaching for this Duke team is quite good, I think.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-10-2009, 04:23 PM
As the saying goes, "It's not about the X's and the O's it's about the Jimmys and the Joes."

My take is the same as Troublemaker. The biggest personnel need IMO, which Coach Cut is trying to address in his recruiting (with some promising steps), is size and strength on the Offensive Line, and also speed and power in the Running Back area.

The quality of coaching for this Duke team is quite good, I think.

I believe Coach Cutcliffe has said he's looking for big guys who fit certain criteria: mobile, agile and hostile.

Defenserules
11-10-2009, 04:58 PM
1) Ga Tech is in no way as good as UNC on Defnese. They just aren't.....

2) To the person who said Duke's players were lucky they weren't injured more, you clearly have never played or understand college football. The difference in size and speed between the Duke O and the Carolina D. is very small. Those small difference surely effect the outcome of the game, but it wouldn't lead to them "hurting" more players. This is not like a high school team playing UNC, our boys are plenty big to ensure they don't get injuried by the big bad boys from UNC. Very uninformed commment.

3) Finally, if UNC is so unstoppable why are they last in the ACC? Why did UVA destroy them? Why did they need a mircle to beat UConn. We can make ourselves feel better by saying that they are just physically much better than us, but it would be a lie. The match-up wasn't great for sure, but the truth is our guys just didn't execute. If we excute we are more than capable of beating a very mediocre UNC team.