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El_Diablo
10-26-2009, 10:54 AM
Hailing from the Great Lakes Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (GLIAC), the Findlay Oilers were the 2009 Division II national champions. They finished 36-0 last year, minus an exhibition loss to Xavier...by 3 points. The year before, they lost to Dayton by 3 and beat Ohio State. The 36-0 record last year was the best in the history of Division II men's basketball.

With 3 players in the 6-7 to 6-9 range, they bring more size than Pfeiffer.

UrinalCake
10-26-2009, 10:56 AM
Sorry if this is a little off-topic... I have tickets and will be taking my wife to her first game. Any chance we can sneak down to the student section for this one? I graduated 10 years ago but can easily pass for a student.

chrisheery
10-26-2009, 11:00 AM
It will be a little better competition for our big guys (been a while since I could say that with a straight face).

Here's how they completed their championship run last year to finish perfect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ro7no6ecaI

NSDukeFan
10-26-2009, 11:13 AM
It will be a little better competition for our big guys (been a while since I could say that with a straight face).

Here's how they completed their championship run last year to finish perfect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ro7no6ecaI

What a finish!

El_Diablo
10-26-2009, 11:18 AM
Sorry if this is a little off-topic... I have tickets and will be taking my wife to her first game. Any chance we can sneak down to the student section for this one? I graduated 10 years ago but can easily pass for a student.

You generally need a wristband...

ChicagoCrazy84
10-26-2009, 12:56 PM
I actually played high school ball in Phoenix, AZ with Dahir Nasser, who is the starting PG for Cal Poly Pomona. I talked to him quite a bit on facebook during their run and after they lost in the finals to Findlay. We played against some pretty decent competition in Phoenix especially during summer ball and he said that Marcus Parker, Findlay's PG was the best player he's ever played against.

A little bit of six degrees of separation, but kinda funny. They'll be a good test for us. They lost some good players from last year like John Bostic and Morgan Lewis, but Parker is a good player and he'll be the leader of the team. It'll be good for Nolan and/or John to square off with him. They're not going to be as good as last year, but it will be an interesting match up.

CEF1959
10-26-2009, 07:00 PM
I don't care if they are D-II. If a team is coming off a 36-0 season, with the chance of making history by winning, and with nothing to lose, they are worth eating a pre-game bowl of Wheaties for.

Playing a team like Findlay in an exhibition game is like taking the Mississippi bar exam. The chances of failure are slim, but the consequences are huge, so you'd better focus.

juise
10-26-2009, 07:15 PM
I don't care if they are D-II. If a team is coming off a 36-0 season, with the chance of making history by winning, and with nothing to lose, they are worth eating a pre-game bowl of Wheaties for.

Playing a team like Findlay in an exhibition game is like taking the Mississippi bar exam. The chances of failure are slim, but the consequences are huge, so you'd better focus.


I smiled at the MS bar exam joke and I agree that Findlay seems like a formidable opponent (exhibition game or otherwise). But... what are the huge consequences of losing an exhibition game? Duke drops in the next polls that are released and then the loss is completely forgotten after the NIT Tip-off tournament (win or lose)?

I hope the team blows Findlay out of the water, but Duke will have a good (hopefully great) season whether they win or lose the Findlay game. :)

FireOgilvie
10-26-2009, 07:40 PM
I smiled at the MS bar exam joke and I agree that Findlay seems like a formidable opponent (exhibition game or otherwise). But... what are the huge consequences of losing an exhibition game? Duke drops in the next polls that are released and then the loss is completely forgotten after the NIT Tip-off tournament (win or lose)?

I hope the team blows Findlay out of the water, but Duke will have a good (hopefully great) season whether they win or lose the Findlay game. :)

Are you kidding me? If Duke loses to Findlay in basketball, we will never hear the end of it. Ever.

juise
10-26-2009, 08:00 PM
Are you kidding me? If Duke loses to Findlay in basketball, we will never hear the end of it. Ever.

I am not kidding you. Duke lost to (relatively unknown) VCU in the NCAA tournament and I haven't heard about it from anyone (other than TV analysts) in ~2 years. UNC lost 19 games in a season while I was in school, but I haven't heard much about that either. Maybe I've just done a good job of distancing myself from Heels and the like.

In my day (trying to sound older), we trounced the EA Sports All-Stars in exhibition. Other schools lost to them and nobody cared... because it was exhibition... and they were pretty good athletes :).

Duvall
10-26-2009, 08:10 PM
In my day (trying to sound older), we trounced the EA Sports All-Stars in exhibition. Other schools lost to them and nobody cared... because it was exhibition... and they were pretty good athletes :).

I still care.

Thank you, Curtis Staples, wherever you are (http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/110501aaa.html).

FireOgilvie
10-26-2009, 08:11 PM
I am not kidding you. Duke lost to (relatively unknown) VCU in the NCAA tournament and I haven't heard about it from anyone (other than TV analysts) in ~2 years. UNC lost 19 games in a season while I was in school, but I haven't heard much about that either. Maybe I've just done a good job of distancing myself from Heels and the like.

In my day (trying to sound older), we trounced the EA Sports All-Stars in exhibition. Other schools lost to them and nobody cared... because it was exhibition... and they were pretty good athletes :).

Losing to that VCU team (with a future first round draft pick PG and now Alabama coach Anthony Grant) in the NCAA Tournament is completely different from losing to a Division II basketball team. Even so, I still think about the VCU game and cringe.

Someone just mentioned that UNC season a few days ago on this board.

People on this board talk about Kentucky losing to Gardner-Webb all the time, and Gardner-Webb is a Division I team.

Duke is a top team in the NCAA, and if we lose to Division II Findlay, people won't forget about it (especially UNC fans).

Indoor66
10-26-2009, 08:22 PM
Losing to that VCU team (with a future first round draft pick PG and now Alabama coach Anthony Grant) in the NCAA Tournament is completely different from losing to a Division II basketball team. Even so, I still think about the VCU game and cringe.

Someone just mentioned that UNC season a few days ago on this board.

People on this board talk about Kentucky losing to Gardner-Webb all the time, and Gardner-Webb is a Division I team.

Duke is a top team in the NCAA, and if we lose to Division II Findlay, people won't forget about it (especially UNC fans).

We will beat them by 25+.

juise
10-26-2009, 08:39 PM
Losing to that VCU team (with a future first round draft pick PG and now Alabama coach Anthony Grant) in the NCAA Tournament is completely different from losing to a Division II basketball team. Even so, I still think about the VCU game and cringe.

Someone just mentioned that UNC season a few days ago on this board.

People on this board talk about Kentucky losing to Gardner-Webb all the time, and Gardner-Webb is a Division I team.

Duke is a top team in the NCAA, and if we lose to Division II Findlay, people won't forget about it (especially UNC fans).

The point about college hoops fanatics (including frequent DBR posters) remembering the exhibition and early season losses is well taken. If I remembered a decent chunk of those close exhibition games and losses, I knew there were some that would remember the steals leader and free throw percentages of those contests.

"Nobody" was intended to imply that the general public doesn't remember and program's legacy is not defined by exhibition games. I would trade 100 exhibition losses for one of UNC's recent national titles, as I'm sure many would. I know we look for anything we can to poke fun at our rivals and I think that if I were still near Tobacco Road, I would be more sensitive to opposing fans.

Having said all that... Findlay beat the 2008 NIT champion (Ohio State) and they almost beat Xavier (who came much closer to winning its Sweet 16 game than Duke did) last year. They are coming off of a 36-0 season, so their coach probably isn't chopped liver. I realize that they don't have one future NBA player like VCU, but let's not pretend like it's such a ridiculous comparison. Take a look at VCU's 2006-2007 schedule (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=2670&year=2007) and tell me who else they beat. All I see is a 3-point loss to Xavier. How ironic. :p

juise
10-26-2009, 08:40 PM
We will beat them by 25+.

I agree. I hope nobody thinks that I'm arguing to the contrary... just trying to downplay the importance of winning exhibition games. I think the benefit is in player development and chemistry building.

CEF1959
10-26-2009, 09:01 PM
I agree. I hope nobody thinks that I'm arguing to the contrary... just trying to downplay the importance of winning exhibition games. I think the benefit is in player development and chemistry building.

I agree that it should be a walkover, but that doesn't happen without some focus.

I also agree that winning exhibition games is not important, but losing an exhibition game in Cameron to a D-II team would be a huge embarrassment. I can hear the chants at arenas all over the country now: "Find-lay! Find-lay!" I'll bet Harrison Barnes watches Sportscenter too.

The risk of losing is low; but the cost is high. So focus is in order.

Truth
10-26-2009, 09:09 PM
I am not kidding you. Duke lost to (relatively unknown) VCU in the NCAA tournament and I haven't heard about it from anyone (other than TV analysts) in ~2 years. ... Maybe I've just done a good job of distancing myself from Heels and the like.

You must be good at the distancing thing... I still hear about VCU multiple times a year, and I also employ Weber State as a well-understood defense mechanism.

Welcome2DaSlopes
10-26-2009, 09:33 PM
You must be good at the distancing thing... I still hear about VCU multiple times a year, and I also employ Weber State as a well-understood defense mechanism.

I hoping a championship in the next two years would change that.

allenmurray
10-26-2009, 09:36 PM
I don't care if they are D-II. If a team is coming off a 36-0 season, with the chance of making history by winning, and with nothing to lose, they are worth eating a pre-game bowl of Wheaties for.

Playing a team like Findlay in an exhibition game is like taking the Mississippi bar exam. The chances of failure are slim, but the consequences are huge, so you'd better focus.

You have to take an exam to go to a bar in Mississippi? What a backwards state! ;)

Maxwell1977
10-26-2009, 09:44 PM
You have to take an exam to go to a bar in Mississippi? What a backwards state! ;)

Silly rabbit! It's to own a bar.

mgtr
10-26-2009, 09:49 PM
Silly rabbit! It's to own a bar.

So, you're saying a lot of lawyers in Mississippi own bars -- makes sense, they need to earn an honest dollar somehow. Or, they could write lawyer novels. I heard some guy wasn't too bad at that.

BD80
10-26-2009, 09:54 PM
...Playing a team like Findlay in an exhibition game is like taking the Mississippi bar exam. The chances of failure are slim, but the consequences are huge, so you'd better focus.

Is that the bar exam where you get penalized for correct spelling?

jkidd31
10-26-2009, 10:55 PM
My junior year at Findlay we beat Bowling Green at Bowling Green. That said this years team will have a big Bullseye on them with a young team. I was disappointed this game was on a Tuesday, if I was on a Saturday I would have made the trip down.

Findlay tends to get a lot of players who talent wise could play at the DI level but would rather play then sit the bench. I recently looked at the football teams roster and there are several players who tranferred in fron DI programs. I'd also say the GLIAC is one of the best DII conferences there is. Some of the Michigan schools have enrollments in the 15-20K range.

Greg_Newton
11-01-2009, 08:22 PM
It's amazing... I've been so excited about Duke football that I completely forgot the basketball team has a game on Tuesday.

I'm pretty sure I can safely say that's the first time I've ever said that.:)

airowe
11-03-2009, 09:03 AM
Next Play!

We're playing against another undersized team tonight which will give our bigs a chance to work on their quickness on D and our wings a chance to hone up on their D as well.

Does anyone know if Lance Thomas is healthy enough to play tonight? This would be a great game for him to get some experience playing the defensive stopper role he's destined to play this year.

Also, I'm looking for a way to watch this game, is there anywhere else to view it other than GoDuke.com?

airowe
11-03-2009, 12:32 PM
Next Play!

We're playing against another undersized team tonight which will give our bigs a chance to work on their quickness on D and our wings a chance to hone up on their D as well.

Does anyone know if Lance Thomas is healthy enough to play tonight? This would be a great game for him to get some experience playing the defensive stopper role he's destined to play this year.

Also, I'm looking for a way to watch this game, is there anywhere else to view it other than GoDuke.com?

Update: Lance has recovered from his battle with swine flu and will play tonight.

Any predictions on Player of the Game? I'm gonna guess its one of the Plumlees, probably Miles. I think our bigs will be featured in this game and we'll try and work the ball inside moreso than shooting from the outside.

Battierfan01
11-03-2009, 01:03 PM
I agree that our BIGS will have a HUGE game. As for player of the game, I think that any of them have a shot. It wouldn't shock me to see a couple of our BIGS with a double-double tonight. Im glad that we will get a chance to see Lance as well.

mgtr
11-03-2009, 01:41 PM
I would be shocked if the player of game didn't have a last name beginning with "S"!!

NSDukeFan
11-03-2009, 03:21 PM
I would be shocked if the player of game didn't have a last name beginning with "S"!!

... on how strong Findlay is. If they play well and keep the game competitive, then I agree with you. If not, then anyone could be player of the game. I don't remember seeing it anywhere on this thread, but does anyone know if Findlay has most of their team back from that undefeated national championship squad?

Battierfan01
11-03-2009, 03:37 PM
... on how strong Findlay is. If they play well and keep the game competitive, then I agree with you. If not, then anyone could be player of the game. I don't remember seeing it anywhere on this thread, but does anyone know if Findlay has most of their team back from that undefeated national championship squad?

I checked out their official website www.findlay.edu and it looks like they have 2 Seniors and 4 Juniors on their roster. They also have a lot of freshman, so my guess is that they lost several members of last year's championship team.

camion
11-03-2009, 04:10 PM
Here are last years stats overlaid with this year's roster. It does look like they lost several significant players.

Last years stats (http://athletics.findlay.edu/sports/extrainfo/3672.htm#TEAM.IND)

This year's roster (http://athletics.findlay.edu/sports/roster.asp?id=15)


## Player GP-GS Min--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off Def Tot Avg PF FO A TO Blk Stl Pts Avg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22 Josh Bostic........ 36-36 1099 30.5 212-452 .469 53-142 .373 191-236 .809 55 167 222 6.2 89 2 104 73 17 85 668 18.6
20 Morgan Lewis....... 36-36 1070 29.7 180-294 .612 10-30 .333 68-102 .667 80 148 228 6.3 65 1 65 56 18 64 438 12.2
12 Marcus Parker...... Sr 36-36 973 27.0 128-297 .431 45-116 .388 85-111 .766 20 53 73 2.0 77 0 146 76 2 50 386 10.7
10 Nathan Hyde........ Jr 36-33 966 26.8 115-238 .483 77-171 .450 68-75 .907 9 62 71 2.0 74 0 44 27 5 28 375 10.4
24 Lee Roberts........ 36-36 956 26.6 151-248 .609 0-3 .000 71-110 .645 89 149 238 6.6 91 1 18 68 36 18 373 10.4
14 Tyler Sparks....... Jr 28-0 499 17.8 53-106 .500 13-27 .481 51-70 .729 37 71 108 3.9 34 0 30 21 6 29 170 6.1
32 Tyler Evans........ 36-3 579 16.1 61-152 .401 51-123 .415 20-28 .714 12 39 51 1.4 30 0 29 19 0 15 193 5.4
05 Aaron Laflin....... 28-0 346 12.4 36-82 .439 18-39 .462 10-20 .500 4 13 17 0.6 15 0 41 26 0 6 100 3.6
41 Antoine Wilhite.... 12-0 85 7.1 6-12 .500 0-0 .000 9-15 .600 0 12 12 1.0 9 0 1 6 0 2 21 1.8
03 Nick Coon.......... Sr 30-0 229 7.6 13-27 .481 2-8 .250 19-27 .704 1 24 25 0.8 12 0 26 11 0 11 47 1.6
45 Michael Agunga..... Jr 30-0 264 8.8 10-21 .476 0-0 .000 23-30 .767 24 19 43 1.4 45 1 5 10 4 3 43 1.4
33 Jason Wehri........ Jr 31-0 161 5.2 9-22 .409 0-0 .000 4-7 .571 9 19 28 0.9 18 0 1 9 2 3 22 0.7
31 Justin Schomaeker.. So 20-0 53 2.7 4-14 .286 1-5 .200 1-4 .250 1 1 2 0.1 1 0 1 1 0 1 10 0.5
TEAM............... 54 54 108 3.0 0 2
5 Greg Avery So
20 Jack Smith Fr
22 Chris Baldwin Fr
24 Aaron Robinson Fr
30 Rob Marsden So
32 JoVaughn Brown Fr
40 Keith Zeigler Fr
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total.............. 36 7280 978-1965 .498 270-664 .407 620-835 .743 395 831 1226 34.1 560 5 511 405 90 315 2846 79.1
Opponents.......... 36 7278 788-1881 .419 206-622 .331 369-535 .690 368 715 1083 30.1 716 - 369 595 73 194 2151 59.8


Question: Is there a way to force monospaced type? I put it inside the "Code" tag because it was the first thing I found that made it look reasonably nice.

airowe
11-03-2009, 05:03 PM
Who's heading to CIS tonight? Just got hooked up with a couple tix. Pm me and we'll meet up.

BlueintheFace
11-03-2009, 06:58 PM
Nolan and Mason not starting?

Interesting...

pratt '04
11-03-2009, 07:00 PM
Nolan and Mason not starting?

Interesting...

Nolan not starting is a "dress rehearsal" for the first two regular season games. Smith must sit those games out due to playing in an unsanctioned game this summer.

Oriole Way
11-03-2009, 07:03 PM
Nolan and Mason not starting?

Interesting...

Word on another message board is that Nolan Smith is suspended for the first 2 regular season games, so tonight's lineup is meant to get the team prepared for playing without him.

As for Mason not in there, perhaps that is matchups-based especially with Nolan out, or perhaps he is sick. Lance Thomas was quite sick for a while, so who knows.

I think Dawkins should be starting, since that starting lineup isn't ideal. But I guess we have to see what the deal is with Nolan and Mason for sure.

Indoor66
11-03-2009, 07:05 PM
Any SnrubChat for the game?

Cameron
11-03-2009, 07:09 PM
I believe desolak (I know I'm spelling that wrong) said that Snrub wouldn't start until the real ones start. Could be wrong, though.

Kedsy
11-03-2009, 07:13 PM
I think Dawkins should be starting, since that starting lineup isn't ideal. But I guess we have to see what the deal is with Nolan and Mason for sure.

Actually, Findlay is supposed to be small and quick, right? This is a perfect way to find out if the superbig lineup some of us were hypothesizing about is feasible defensively.

BlueintheFace
11-03-2009, 07:15 PM
Defensive rotations looking reeeeeal sloppy early. Singler looking nice.

FireOgilvie
11-03-2009, 07:28 PM
16-11 Duke with 11:11 left in the first half. We look pretty terrible.

CDu
11-03-2009, 07:29 PM
Judging by the score (16-12 with under 11 to go, shooting 5-16), we must look pretty sloppy.

BlueintheFace
11-03-2009, 07:36 PM
it aint pretty folks...

Bluedevil114
11-03-2009, 07:41 PM
Judging by the score (16-12 with under 11 to go, shooting 5-16), we must look pretty sloppy.

Where are you getting live up to date stats?

KShip21
11-03-2009, 07:45 PM
Anyone have an idea why Nolan isn't playing at all? I've been watching since the 18 min mark and haven't seen him

pratt '04
11-03-2009, 07:45 PM
Where are you getting live up to date stats?

goduke.com (http://www.goduke.com/liveStats/newLiveStats.dbml?SPSID=22724&DB_OEM_ID=4200&DB_LANG=C&KEY=&SPID=1845&SPORT_ID=1845&GAME_STAT_ID=453224)

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-03-2009, 07:48 PM
Anyone have an idea why Nolan isn't playing at all? I've been watching since the 18 min mark and haven't seen him

maybe it's punishment for getting himself into a jam with the ncaa. Now he has to sit out two games. More info in the Nolan has to sit out the first two games thread.

BlueintheFace
11-03-2009, 07:49 PM
Theme of 1st Half: Freshmen making Freshmen mistakes

CDu
11-03-2009, 07:51 PM
Where are you getting live up to date stats?

GoDuke.com:

http://www.goduke.com/liveStats/newLiveStats.dbml?SPSID=22724&DB_OEM_ID=4200&DB_LANG=C&KEY=&SPID=1845&SPORT_ID=1845&GAME_STAT_ID=453224

36-23 at the half. We shot just under 40% for the half with 10 turnovers. Singler and Mason Plumlee appear to be the biggest turnover offenders with 4 and 3 respectively.

FireOgilvie
11-03-2009, 07:55 PM
Scheyer is having a lot of trouble getting any separation from his man when he's bringing the ball up and trying to run the offense. He's spending a lot of time with his back to his man (and the basket).

We really miss Nolan in this one. We're not quick with our huge lineup (and Findlay is).

DevilCastDownfromDurham
11-03-2009, 07:56 PM
Scheyer is having a lot of trouble getting any separation from his man when he's bringing the ball up and trying to run the offense. He's spending a lot of time with his back to his man (and the basket).

Ugh, we've seen enough of that over the last few seasons to last me a lifetime. Mr Irving, come on down.

dukelifer
11-03-2009, 08:01 PM
Scheyer is having a lot of trouble getting any separation from his man when he's bringing the ball up and trying to run the offense. He's spending a lot of time with his back to his man (and the basket).

We really miss Nolan in this one. We're not quick with our huge lineup (and Findlay is).

Duke has missed a ton of easy shots. They will fix it in the second half

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-03-2009, 08:02 PM
Good thing this is an exhibition

CDu
11-03-2009, 08:02 PM
Scheyer is having a lot of trouble getting any separation from his man when he's bringing the ball up and trying to run the offense. He's spending a lot of time with his back to his man (and the basket).

We really miss Nolan in this one. We're not quick with our huge lineup (and Findlay is).

Yeah, the same was true of Scheyer in the Pfeiffer game. Some of that was because Pfeiffer pressed and trapped A LOT. But even when he was guarded by only one guy, he tended to be methodical in bringing it up. Hopefully it's nothing to worry about (at least he's not committing turnovers), but it's something to keep an eye on I think.

FireOgilvie
11-03-2009, 08:07 PM
Yeah, the same was true of Scheyer in the Pfeiffer game. Some of that was because Pfeiffer pressed and trapped A LOT. But even when he was guarded by only one guy, he tended to be methodical in bringing it up. Hopefully it's nothing to worry about (at least he's not committing turnovers), but it's something to keep an eye on I think.

Yeah, he's definitely protecting the ball. But it's just tough to run the offense while facing the other direction 35 feet from the basket.

I think Nolan is back in.

dukelion
11-03-2009, 08:07 PM
I'll give these guys props.....they're quick and very organized. They hit a couple back doors in the first half which makes me a bit nervous for our D.

The biggest positive of the first half is Lance Thomas.......super active and just seems to have a confidence in his game....he started out playing the 3 spot and played it well.

westwall
11-03-2009, 08:09 PM
-- maybe K wanted to see the difference.

CDu
11-03-2009, 08:10 PM
Yeah, he's definitely protecting the ball. But it's just tough to run the offense while facing the other direction 35 feet from the basket.

I think Nolan is back in.

Oh I agree. It's not ideal - it's really hard to attack and put pressure on the defense with your back to the basket.

And according to GoDuke, Smith has indeed joined the game. He started the second half and already has 2 assists. Duke up 49-27.

FireOgilvie
11-03-2009, 08:10 PM
"Kyle Singler hot as a two dollar pistol!" - Bob Harris

He made a long 3. His 3 pt shot looks really good so far this year.

Nolan came out right away and made a nice pass to Singler while running the fast break.

westwall
11-03-2009, 08:12 PM
-- Yeah, suddenly its becoming a blow-out.

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-03-2009, 08:13 PM
Last i heard Nolan has a sexy girlfriend and Wifey(those of you who watch his ustream would understand)

dukelifer
11-03-2009, 08:17 PM
Duke has missed a ton of easy shots. They will fix it in the second half

Shooting fixed.

FireOgilvie
11-03-2009, 08:17 PM
We look much better now than we did in the first half. Nolan had a nice driving layup in traffic.

Miles is blocking everything. He had a really nice one earlier where he came from behind on a breakaway and swatted it into the stands.

55-27.

CDu
11-03-2009, 08:19 PM
55-27 now. Singler leading the way with 18 and 7. It appears that putting Nolan Smith in the lineup was the spark (or perhaps it was just a coincidence - hard to say for sure). He re-entered the lineup to start the second half and we've gone on a 25-4 run.

As I said, it's hard to say if it's cause/effect or just spurious correlation, but with Smith on the floor the team is getting much better results.

dukelion
11-03-2009, 08:19 PM
for unauthorized summer league games......that's why he sat the first half....weird.

He looks amazing by the way and he's running the point......Scheyer struggled at the point in the first half but has thrived at SG in the 2nd.

fisheyes
11-03-2009, 08:22 PM
for unauthorized summer league games......that's why he sat the first half....weird.

He looks amazing by the way and he's running the point......Scheyer struggled at the point in the first half but has thrived at SG in the 2nd.

The announcers said that Coach wanted to see what the team would look like without him for the first two games.

juise
11-03-2009, 08:25 PM
Almost 3/4 through the game (12:08 left) and Duke has more offensive rebounds (15) than Findlay has defensive rebounds (14). That's not fair. :cool:

ice-9
11-03-2009, 08:37 PM
The announcers said that Coach wanted to see what the team would look like without him for the first two games.

And I guess the answer is SLOPPY.

I'm disappointed in the freshmen's lack of production thus far in this one.

FireOgilvie
11-03-2009, 08:40 PM
Miles just fouled out with 9 points, 10 rebounds.

Lance looks better today than I've seen him in awhile, if ever. He has 8 points, 8 rebounds, but overall, he just looks a lot more confident today, IMO.

Findlay is small, but they are still much much better than Pfeiffer.

juise
11-03-2009, 08:42 PM
I'm disappointed in the freshmen's lack of production thus far in this one.

Overall, I agree with this sentiment. However, it does appear that our shorter competition reminds Mason of his high school days and he is swatting their shots accordingly (5 blocks so far... easier than shooting womp-rats in Beggars' Canyon back home).

BlueintheFace
11-03-2009, 08:49 PM
Thoughts:

1) Team looks completely different with Nolan in... better energy and better ball movement. The improvements are so obvious for him. With court vision it is night and day.

2) Mason Plumlee DOES NOT like contact. He is a great athlete, but when he gets the ball in the post you can put your money on him fading away for every shot.

3) Miles is all over the lane and shows great aggression.

4) Singler looks spectacular

5) All the freshman are still adjusting and it is obvious.

6) Singler, Scheyer, and Smith will all be playing A LOT of minutes this season. Not that this is news...

juise
11-03-2009, 08:56 PM
I would be shocked if the player of game didn't have a last name beginning with "S"!!


In the scoring department, you were pretty much dead-on. :)

mgtr
11-03-2009, 09:04 PM
Now I am concerned about how well we will do without Smith. Davidson is competent, but not a sparkplug like Smith. I realize he is a freshman, but I am looking for Dawkins to step up a little bigger. Plumlees looked OK (Miles needs to control himself on defense), Czyz looks better every time I see him, Thomas seems more focussed. The S boys are the S boys. Zoubek looks pretty much as expected, although he doesn't seem to thrash around so much this year. Ryan Kelly hasn't shown much yet, but it is early. Overall, I am optimistic once we get past the first two games without Smith.

CDu
11-03-2009, 09:07 PM
84-48 final. Good numbers for Singler and Scheyer. Smith came in in the second half and gave us 7 and 3 assists. The veteran bigs (Zoubek, Thomas, and Miles Plumlee) each had 9+ rebounds and 8+ points. And Mason Plumlee had 5 blocks while Miles added 3. So that's the good.

The bad? Miles Plumlee fouled out. Foul trouble was a concern for him last year (a foul every 4.6 minutes). He's going to need to balance the aggressive play with avoiding committing too many fouls if he wants to be a consistent presence for us in the paint this year. And it appears to be a pretty uninspiring performance from the freshmen. They were a combined 2-16 from the floor for 10 points and 7 turnovers.

Oh well. It's an exhibition so it's not worth too much thought, especially because I imagine Findlay is also smaller and different than what we'll typically face this year. And the team is still working on the on-floor chemistry and the freshmen are still adapting to the college game. They may take time.

jv001
11-03-2009, 09:12 PM
How did Andre & Kelly play? Points, ball handling, etc. Hey it could be worse, we could have lost to Vandy. Go Duke!

BlueintheFace
11-03-2009, 09:13 PM
How did Andre & Kelly play? Points, ball handling, etc. Hey it could be worse, we could have lost to Vandy. Go Duke!

Andre and Kelly were invisible

Lord Ash
11-03-2009, 09:17 PM
*sigh* Between hearing that Andre and Ryan were invisible, Miles fouled a lot, and Mason doesn't love contact, I must admit this is not terribly encouraging. Of course, it is just an exhibition game, and the first of the year. Still...

jv001
11-03-2009, 09:18 PM
Andre and Kelly were invisible

Thanks..Go Duke!

BlueintheFace
11-03-2009, 09:19 PM
It's just an exhibition game... Most important sentence of the night

However, without Nolan the team didn't look particularly good and Nolan will not be playing in the first two games. There is something to take from that and it isn't positive. Still, there were definite positives.

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-03-2009, 09:20 PM
*sigh* Between hearing that Andre and Ryan were invisible, Miles fouled a lot, and Mason doesn't love contact, I must admit this is not terribly encouraging. Of course, it is just an exhibition game, and the first of the year. Still...

I thought that as well but it also seems we played great with Nolan in the game so that's a major plus.

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-03-2009, 09:21 PM
HAHAHA ahh man Blueintheface beat me to it. Sorry guys. GO DUKE

westwall
11-03-2009, 09:22 PM
BlueintheFace said:

--- "Andre and Kelly were invisible".

I watched the video on GoDuke.com and thought I saw smart, encouraging plays by both, especially Kelly. Andre missed some long three's, but wasn't afraid to take them.

Lord Ash
11-03-2009, 09:23 PM
Well, without Nolan you DO have to expect some hiccups... we are not exactly guard heavy, and without Nolan, we are down to only Jon, a freshman, and walk ons. Total. But maybe having to force the big men to be productive early on, as well as lots of minutes for Andre, won't necessarily be a BAD thing?

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-03-2009, 09:23 PM
Andre missed some long three's, but wasn't afraid to take them.

All great shooters have slumps. Good thing it's now then later.

JaMarcus Russell
11-03-2009, 09:24 PM
It's probably important to note that Findlay would do a lot better than 5-24 or 11-19 in Division 1, and that's how UNC-G and Coastal Carolina finished last season. This game is probably more of a test than either of those two regular season games.

Does anyone have the stats for tonight's game? I didn't see them on GoDuke, but maybe I just didn't check the right place.

Native
11-03-2009, 09:44 PM
Does anyone have the stats for tonight's game? I didn't see them on GoDuke, but maybe I just didn't check the right place.

http://www.goduke.com/liveStats/newLiveStats.dbml?SPSID=22726&DB_OEM_ID=4200&DB_LANG=C&KEY=&SPID=1845&SPORT_ID=1845&GAME_STAT_ID=453224

_Gary
11-03-2009, 09:47 PM
Scheyer is having a lot of trouble getting any separation from his man when he's bringing the ball up and trying to run the offense. He's spending a lot of time with his back to his man (and the basket).

Didn't get to see any of the game, but this was one of my reservations about playing Jon at the point as opposed to Nolan. There's just no way Jon is physically equipped to really handle strong on the ball pressure from solid defenders. It's just not his strength. We are going to need Nolan on the floor when we are facing teams that are going to apply that much pressure on the ball as it's advanced up the floor.

Gary

JaMarcus Russell
11-03-2009, 09:47 PM
Thank you.

duke09hms
11-03-2009, 09:51 PM
Yeah, not to get into the whole "Scheyer is athletic/unathletic" thing, but one would think he would really have worked on his ball-handling under heavy pressure ever since the Villanova game. You don't need ankle-breaking speed/moves to do that (John Stockton), so I would expect and hope his ball-handling skills to be much improved from last year.

Didn't he also go to an elite point guard camp this summer? That had to be a point of emphasis.

dukelifer
11-03-2009, 09:55 PM
Andre and Kelly were invisible

I thought Kelly showed that he could be an excellent passing big man and has a very nice stroke from the line. Andre did not score- but he played decent D and did not seem lost out there. All in all, the young guys did not have their best games- but they are learning. In general, the big guys are trying to either be spectacular or finessing around the hoop too much. They need to take it strong and draw contact. Hansbrough was a master of that. The young guys need to learn do it. This is not a very good passing team. They never seem to find guys when they are open or feed the post very well. Without a penetrating threat on the floor (which is really only Nolan)- they will struggle on O. Nolan gives them speed and they can take advantage of the strength of the big guys and that is their ability to run. It is a bit of a mess in the half court. This team, however, can bound the ball.

This is a team that will play hard - but the games could be ugly at time until they get into a rhythm of playing multiple times a week. The young guys are far from being superstars. Plumlee the younger has much to learn and Dawkin's handle is definitely shaky. Fans will need to be patient.

westwall
11-03-2009, 10:01 PM
-- with Dukelifer on all points. And, Kelly may prove to be our best at the free throw line. Looked like a nice stroke!

jkidd31
11-03-2009, 10:02 PM
http://www.goduke.com/liveStats/newLiveStats.dbml?SPSID=22726&DB_OEM_ID=4200&DB_LANG=C&KEY=&SPID=1845&SPORT_ID=1845&GAME_STAT_ID=453224

Findlay is a lot like Duke in the fact they live and die with D and good long range shooting. Several of the guys they lost off last years yeam were good from long range, and they lost Josh Bostic who was DII POY. I'll be curious to see how they fair this year because they a ranked #4 pre-season. Wish this game was on a w/e because I really wanted to bring my son down.

mgtr
11-03-2009, 10:05 PM
I thought a positive note from the game was that Czyz has improved lightyears from last year. He actually looks as if he has played the game before, unlike last year where he had the "deer in the headlights" look throughout much of the game. Not a starter yet, but a contributor. As others have stated, the frosh have a lot to learn.

Newton_14
11-03-2009, 10:20 PM
Andre and Kelly were invisible

Actually in the post game interview with Bob, Coach K said he was very pleased with the way Andre played. He noted that even though he did not score, Andre did a lot of good things out there that did not show up in the stats. He also felt Kelly played well at times.

K said our big guys, especially the youngun's need to work on how to get fouled in the paint. He noted the fadeaways and said they would be working on that and once learned they would be much more effective.

Mason looked good on defense tonight but made several freshman mistakes that I can easily see him learning from and overcoming. You could tell he was highly p'd at himself. He did have one really nice play in the 2nd half where he posted his man, turned and finished strong for a hoop.

Kyle was great, Jon was really good as was Lance, and Zoubs has actually improved in all 3 games so far. Zoubs best play was picking the pocket of one of the Findlay guards out near the top of the key.

As others have noted, the first half was very sloppy and in the 2nd half they looked a whole lot better. And I disagree on the comment about passing. This is going to be a good passing team as the year wears on.

And like another poster said, Olek is learning how to play. It's going to be fun watching him grow up as a player over his four years..

Kewlswim
11-03-2009, 10:27 PM
I thought Kelly showed that he could be an excellent passing big man and has a very nice stroke from the line. Andre did not score- but he played decent D and did not seem lost out there. All in all, the young guys did not have their best games- but they are learning. In general, the big guys are trying to either be spectacular or finessing around the hoop too much. They need to take it strong and draw contact. Hansbrough was a master of that. The young guys need to learn do it. This is not a very good passing team. They never seem to find guys when they are open or feed the post very well. Without a penetrating threat on the floor (which is really only Nolan)- they will struggle on O. Nolan gives them speed and they can take advantage of the strength of the big guys and that is their ability to run. It is a bit of a mess in the half court. This team, however, can bound the ball.

This is a team that will play hard - but the games could be ugly at time until they get into a rhythm of playing multiple times a week. The young guys are far from being superstars. Plumlee the younger has much to learn and Dawkin's handle is definitely shaky. Fans will need to be patient.

Hi,

I like that you are calling for patience. I also think that in the past it seemed that Duke would peak somewhat earlier than the NCAA tournament as opposed to playing our best ball in March. Won't the youngsters and the flaws in our game (I know, I know, I am not a part of the team, please allow me this indiscretion for the hell I can get for just being a Duke fan) be the type that are corrected as the season progresses? So that, come March, there is a chance this team will be uber dangerous?

GO DUKE!

El_Diablo
11-03-2009, 10:37 PM
My observations...

-Kyle looks like he's ready to carry the team on his back when he has to.
-Jon was being really careful bringing the ball up the court, but he was getting fouled. I think that in a real game a lot of those reaches would be called, but the refs were letting a lot go.
-Interior defense was not great at shutting down the passing lanes, but was good at contesting and blocking shots.
-Boards: whatever our defensive total was, it should have been better. We did not do a great job of boxing out. However, we were pretty strong on the offensive side. The Plumlees will wreak havoc in this respect...they just need to finish on those tip-ins.
-Lance looked pretty smooth handling the ball.
-Bill Cowher was in attendance.

dukelifer
11-03-2009, 10:56 PM
Hi,

I like that you are calling for patience. I also think that in the past it seemed that Duke would peak somewhat earlier than the NCAA tournament as opposed to playing our best ball in March. Won't the youngsters and the flaws in our game (I know, I know, I am not a part of the team, please allow me this indiscretion for the hell I can get for just being a Duke fan) be the type that are corrected as the season progresses? So that, come March, there is a chance this team will be uber dangerous?

GO DUKE!

I think the flaws are not fatal. They will be corrected. Part of it is youthful exuberance and part is inexperience. Tonight they did seem out of sorts without Nolan on the floor to start the game and got into a funk. Findlay is not a bad team and definitely was physical with Duke. The passing problems are more about timing and touch- both will improve in time. But passing may be better in transition with spacing. That is why I liked what I saw from Kelly. He did not have any assists but that was in part because the guys he passed to did not finish. He has touch and timing- just needs experience and 20 lbs of muscle. I am not down on this team but think they need to work on a lot of little things- particularly with Nolan out of the lineup when they will need to do more in the half court.

Kedsy
11-03-2009, 11:15 PM
Didn't get to see any of the game, but this was one of my reservations about playing Jon at the point as opposed to Nolan. There's just no way Jon is physically equipped to really handle strong on the ball pressure from solid defenders. It's just not his strength. We are going to need Nolan on the floor when we are facing teams that are going to apply that much pressure on the ball as it's advanced up the floor.

Gary

I didn't see any of the game, either, but it is worth pointing out Duike scored 84 points and Jon only had one turnover. So if he's not able to withstand ball pressure, I didn't notice it in the box score.

duke09hms
11-03-2009, 11:20 PM
I didn't see any of the game, either, but it is worth pointing out Duike scored 84 points and Jon only had one turnover. So if he's not able to withstand ball pressure, I didn't notice it in the box score.

We were playing Findlay, and while they are good for a D-II team, Jon having to turn his back bringing the ball upcourt in an exhibition game worries me a little.

With our lack of guards, even more intense ball pressure will certainly come from our top-flight competition, not D-II Findlay.

That said, it is only "preseason," and it is only one game, so not much can be taken away from tonight.

BlueintheFace
11-03-2009, 11:20 PM
Actually in the post game interview with Bob, Coach K said he was very pleased with the way Andre played. He noted that even though he did not score, Andre did a lot of good things out there that did not show up in the stats. He also felt Kelly played well at times.


You can play a good smart game for a freshman and be invisible. Invisible can also mean mistake free.

If you play 20 minutes and have zero points on five shots, 1 assist, 3 rebounds, 1 foul, and 1 steal. You might have played smart, but you would definitely qualify as invisible.

I'm not saying Kelly and Dawkins played poorly. I am just saying they didn't have memorable performances in any way.

jipops
11-03-2009, 11:26 PM
You can play a good smart game for a freshman and be invisible. Invisible can also mean mistake free.

If you play 20 minutes and have zero points on five shots, 1 assist, 3 rebounds, 1 foul, and 1 steal. You might have played smart, but you would definitely qualify as invisible.

I'm not saying Kelly and Dawkins played poorly. I am just saying they didn't have memorable performances in any way.

Are you aware of their +/-?

When has any exhibition performance ever been memorable?

Kedsy
11-03-2009, 11:26 PM
We were playing Findlay.

Good thing it wasn't LeMoyne.

FireOgilvie
11-03-2009, 11:27 PM
I didn't see any of the game, either, but it is worth pointing out Duike scored 84 points and Jon only had one turnover. So if he's not able to withstand ball pressure, I didn't notice it in the box score.

Well, he also only had 1 assist. He wasn't turning the ball over, but he wasn't exactly getting anywhere either. He had a few nice moves within 15 feet, but he's never going to be the kind of guy that drives the ball into the lane and dishes.

BlueintheFace
11-03-2009, 11:30 PM
When has any exhibition performance ever been memorable?

Well, I watched the game tonight and remember plenty of positive plays made by Jon, Kyle, and Lance. I remember positive and negative plays made by the plumlees. I remember the difference it made with Nolan in the game and his improved court vision. When I try, I cannot remember any thing about Dawkins' performance except that he played solid defense and cannot remember anything about Kelly' performance except that he hit his FTs. When I look at the boxscore my impressions are confirmed.

I think perhaps you don't understand the meaning of "memorable"...

jipops
11-03-2009, 11:37 PM
Well, I watched the game tonight and remember plenty of positive plays made by Jon, Kyle, and Lance. I remember positive and negative plays made by the plumlees. I remember the difference it made with Nolan in the game and his improved court vision. When I try, I cannot remember any thing about Dawkins' performance except that he played solid defense and cannot remember anything about Kelly' performance except that he hit his FTs. When I look at the boxscore my impressions are confirmed.

I think perhaps you don't understand the meaning of "memorable"...

Looking at the box, which is all I have to go on, it just appears that Andre couldn't get his shots to go down. I'm not really worried about that. Solid D is really the most important thing we need from Andre right now. I think we also need to factor in that the freshmen may have actually had the rug pulled out from under them with Nolan's absence. I seriously doubt many practices have excluded Nolan from being on the floor. These guys are going to need a creator on the floor and Nolan is capable of providing that. Put Nolan on the floor for a full game, and I think we'll see, err.. more memorable (sorry) performances from the freshmen. At the same time, this particular experience without him can still be made positive.

It should also be pointed out that even though this was a div II opponent, not one opposing player came close to shooting 50%.

Kedsy
11-03-2009, 11:42 PM
Well, he also only had 1 assist. He wasn't turning the ball over, but he wasn't exactly getting anywhere either. He had a few nice moves within 15 feet, but he's never going to be the kind of guy that drives the ball into the lane and dishes.

I agree he's never going to be that guy. But I don't necessarily agree that we need him to be that guy in order to be successful.

After we lost to West Virginia two years ago, a lot of people talked about Duke not having enough size or post presence. But while it's true West Virginia outrebounded us by a ton in that game, it wasn't because West Virginia outsized us -- their front line was pretty much the same size as ours -- but instead because their inside players outquicked us. Yet for most of last year's pre-season there was constant fretting over whether we could play enough big guys to compete.

So, last March we got trounced by a team with three small, quick guards, and now everyone is harping on the fact that we don't have a small, quick point guard. I don't think Jon's inability to drive and dish is why we lost the Villanova game. I think our problems were on the defensive end. We shot poorly in that game and weren't able to contain Nova enough to make up for our cold shooting.

(And, yes, I understand the argument that if you are shooting poorly you need some way to get easy baskets; but that way doesn't have to involve a lightning quick, drive-and-dish PG. This year, I'm hoping the easy baskets will come from our many rebounds leading to fast break buckets.)

My point (such as it is) is that this year's team will find ways to score. If our defense is up to snuff, we can be very successful. If it isn't, our last game may not be so enjoyable. However, it's going to be some time before we have a true assessment of our defense, so we just have to wait and see.

Again, I didn't see tonight's game. Were we running the old motion offense at all? If we can do that successfully, it should minimize the issues arising from our lack of an ankle-breaking PG.

BlueintheFace
11-03-2009, 11:44 PM
Nolan on the floor just makes such a huge difference... I can't get over that. He just looks so different. So much more confident...

Taco
11-04-2009, 12:00 AM
Nolan on the floor just makes such a huge difference... I can't get over that. He just looks so different. So much more confident...

I just ... want to draw him ...

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-04-2009, 12:07 AM
I just ... want to draw him ...

Please explain???

BlueintheFace
11-04-2009, 12:10 AM
I just ... want to draw him ...

hahahha. You need to have a sweet jumpshot to get that privilege apparently...

6th Man
11-04-2009, 12:15 AM
Not that it matters or anyone cares what I think...but I'm going to say it anyway:

1. What a difference Nolan Smith makes on this team. 2. Mason Plumlee has got to learn how to finish off baskets. 3. I think people are too hard on Kelly. He is probably not ready yet physically, but I can tell he is a very smart basketball player. Once he develops a little physically he may become very good. Going to take some weightroom work. 4. Zoubek, Thomas, and Scheyer seem very similar to last year. 5. Kyle Singler seems to look better than last year. 6. We really are going to miss having G and Elliot(duh). Not a lot of athleticism. I can see us struggling to guard atheletic 6'6 type guys. 7. We may play better "team" ball this year. Thought last season and the Nova game in particular, we became too much one on one.

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-04-2009, 12:19 AM
I just ... want to draw him ...

wooooow sorry it took me a while to get that one. hahaha funny.

striker219
11-04-2009, 01:35 AM
I was at the game tonight (first Cameron experience: AWESOME!) and had a few random thoughts, in no particular order.

-Nolan on/off the court made this two different teams. His confidence seems high (through the roof!), he seems to move quicker laterally than last season, and seemed a little smoother finishing than a year ago. Granted, he only played about 12 minutes so I could be imagining all of this

-LT looked good. Again, more confident, and quicker, or maybe just with more control on the defensive end. Not especially offensively minded, but when he went to goal he went strong. Of course, this wasn't a big team so that may be that.

-Kyle, as a 3 he's a 10. Very comfortable on the wing, silky freaking smooth, going to be a very exciting year for him. Had a bit of trouble on the defensive end guarding a smaller, quicker man, but nobody cares. Pretty, pretty game.

-Plumlee x2 - Miles looking stronger than last year, very active, needs to learn a little control; fouls seemed to find him a little too easily. Mason showing really incredible potential, personally very excited about him. More comfortable taking a commanding role on the defensive end but had trouble finishing on offense. Runs the floor well, quick for his size, handles the ball well for his size. He may well end up with his jersey hanging in the rafters, but it will probably be because it got snagged on a loose piece of metal while going up to block a shot. Somewhat prone to make freshman mistakes.

-Seth looked like he wanted to be on the court.

-Andre played a strong supporting role. His shots weren't falling, but he wasn't afraid to take them and he has a smooooth stroke. When they are falling, look out. Got a little lost at times on offense, but contributed more on defense than I personally expected.

-I thought Jon did fine at point, nothing flashy, but he protected the ball well against quick guards. His offense came alive more from the 2, seems comfortable as a team leader.

-Zoubek - Looks stronger. Still kinda flail-y, but not as much. Has picked up a little hook shot that might work for him if he can keep his arms up and finish. Didn't get pushed around, but it was a much smaller team so that doesn't mean much. Was a little concerned with the way he ran the floor, he just looks uncomfortable moving quickly down the court. Honestly, 7-footers for the most part look awkward when they run, and he definitely fits the bill there.

-Olek is less deer in the headlights, more excited child. Very athletic, works hard, needs needs needs to learn finesse. His spacing on offense seemed a little off, and I don't really know how to put this into words, he just didn't seem to know where to be, like he had to think about it rather than it just coming naturally. Kinda fun to watch though.

-Ryan Kelly can shoot free throws. Passes the ball well, maybe slightly too often, could crack a few more shots but that will come with experience and confidence. Frequently looks, well, goofy on the court. I think that makes me like him more.

-Findlay was bigger and stronger than Pfeifer but you still can't judge what this team can do based on this game.

-First half was sloppy, second cleaned up a bit but the team has work to do. Interesting to watch them work so much zone. OK, flat-out weird to watch the zone. Of course, a strong zone will really hurt teams like Carolina (9F).

-Really interesting to watch freshman, Olek, and Nolan on the floor together. I think it showed what Nolan is capable of, from a leadership perspective and from a skills perspective, and it made me start to believe the off-season hype about him that I already wanted to believe.

-I'm probably not going to be able to make it to any more games this year unless someone wants to adopt me as a charity case and give me a ticket or smuggle me in. I am not opposed to this. I will wear a costume and/or stuff myself into a duffel bag if this will help.

Disclaimer: from a players perspective I peaked in middle school, so I could be and probably am wrong about most, if not all, of my analysis. Also, I have been drinking a touch since I got home.

GO DUKE!!!

Jim3k
11-04-2009, 02:08 AM
I was at the game tonight (first Cameron experience: AWESOME!) and had a few random thoughts, in no particular order.

-Kyle, as a 3 he's a 10. Very comfortable on the wing, silky freaking smooth, going to be a very exciting year for him. Had a bit of trouble on the defensive end guarding a smaller, quicker man, but nobody cares. Pretty, pretty game.


...-Plumlee x2 - ... He may well end up with his jersey hanging in the rafters, but it will probably be because it got snagged on a loose piece of metal while going up to block a shot.



-Ryan Kelly can shoot free throws. ...Frequently looks, well, goofy on the court. I think that makes me like him more.



-I'm probably not going to be able to make it to any more games this year unless someone wants to adopt me as a charity case and give me a ticket or smuggle me in. I am not opposed to this. I will wear a costume and/or stuff myself into a duffel bag if this will help.


Disclaimer: from a players perspective I peaked in middle school, so I could be and probably am wrong about most, if not all, of my analysis. Also, I have been drinking a touch since I got home.

GO DUKE!!!

Terrific stuff. Hope someone has a duffel big enough for you and your libation. :p

striker219
11-04-2009, 02:46 AM
Terrific stuff. Hope someone has a duffel big enough for you and your libation. :p

Likewise friend.

(To those with the duffel, I work in the booze biz, so my libation is more for the soon to be merrier)

ice-9
11-04-2009, 06:18 AM
Disclaimer: from a players perspective I peaked in middle school, so I could be and probably am wrong about most, if not all, of my analysis. Also, I have been drinking a touch since I got home.


I'm not sure why, but this last paragraph made me LOL. Nice post and thanks for the analysis!

lpd1982
11-04-2009, 07:43 AM
Disclaimer: from a players perspective I peaked in middle school, so I could be and probably am wrong about most, if not all, of my analysis. Also, I have been drinking a touch since I got home.!

This could probably be said, in its entirety, of most of us posters here.

whereinthehellami
11-04-2009, 09:09 AM
Duke had 19 TOs to 16 assists. And Scheyer had trouble bringing the ball up the court and getting the offense started. This is going to be a theme all year and a big reason why athletic/pressuring teams will give Duke headaches. Throw in the fact that Duke's bigs are going to be green this year and Duke's O is going to have long periods of draught scoring the ball.

Plumlee fouled out in 15 minutes, while Singler had 3 fouls. Better get that zone figured out pronto. Singler is going to be worked on defense as teams will be gunning for him to get him in foul trouble.

CEF1959
11-04-2009, 09:17 AM
It's exhibition, and Findlay is no slouch D2 team. There were a lot of positives that came out of this game, including Singler and MP1, who despite fouling out with over 7:00 to go, looked strong and confident. Duke shot almost 80% from the line, played good defense, and rebounded well. Coming out like gangbusters in the second half -- outscoring the opposition 24-4 -- means that players are listening and focusing at half time.

But let me say this: The only way to win basketball games is to put the ball in the basket. And when you shoot 41% from the floor, you will lose games against teams that have better shooters and rebounders than Findlay. Not every team will oblige us by shooting 25% or by playing only 7 players, none of them very big. A 59-38 rebounding edge makes up for a lot of bad shooting, but we won't get that kind of edge against better bigger teams.

MP2, Dawkins, and Kelly all had bad shooting nights (with MP2 missing several dunks again, something that we've seen in two consecutive games now). But they're freshmen. Those 3, plus Olek, went a collective 3-21 (14%) from the field, and all are young. The starters and Nolan shot a collective 29-46 (63%).

So I'm not worried. I'm just saying... 41%.

airowe
11-04-2009, 09:29 AM
All of you knocking Scheyer need to remember a few things:

1) With Nolan out, Jon lost his primary backcourt mate and someone he obviously feels most comfortable with

2) This was an exhibition so K was putting our guys in uncomfortable situations (not much help bringing the ball up the court, especially with no Nolan)

3) The refs were letting the guards from Findlay really attack the guy with the ball. There were a couple times where Scheyer had guys hanging on his arms with no foul calls.

4) Mason, Ryan, and Andre have only played in two exhibitions. They will take some time to adjust to the game speed and physicality. This will make things easier on everyone.

5) Scheyer had 19 points and 1 TO. Many times the first pass was not intended to put a guy in a scoring position as we were trying to exploit Findlay's smaller lineup and work the ball around to get an over the top entry pass to a guy when he was in position. This often requires moving the ball around the perimeter so the angle and position are at their best. Box scores don't tell the whole story.

NSDukeFan
11-04-2009, 10:00 AM
It's exhibition, and Findlay is no slouch D2 team. There were a lot of positives that came out of this game, including Singler and MP1, who despite fouling out with over 7:00 to go, looked strong and confident. Duke shot almost 80% from the line, played good defense, and rebounded well. Coming out like gangbusters in the second half -- outscoring the opposition 24-4 -- means that players are listening and focusing at half time.

But let me say this: The only way to win basketball games is to put the ball in the basket. And when you shoot 41% from the floor, you will lose games against teams that have better shooters and rebounders than Findlay. Not every team will oblige us by shooting 25% or by playing only 7 players, none of them very big. A 59-38 rebounding edge makes up for a lot of bad shooting, but we won't get that kind of edge against better bigger teams.

MP2, Dawkins, and Kelly all had bad shooting nights (with MP2 missing several dunks again, something that we've seen in two consecutive games now). But they're freshmen. Those 3, plus Olek, went a collective 3-21 (14%) from the field, and all are young. The starters and Nolan shot a collective 29-46 (63%).

So I'm not worried. I'm just saying... 41%.

I wouldn't worry too much about 41%. Duke teams typically shoot in the 44-48% range, so there will be several games where the team shoots 41% or lower. My thought is when the team has poor shooting games, they need to be doing enough other things well (defending, creating turnovers, getting extra chances from rebounds, getting shots inside and at the foul line) to give themselves the best chance to still win the game.

I am definitely not concerned that our freshmen had poor shooting games, but encouraged to hear that K felt they played well. Andre, Ryan and Mason being solid defensively is a lot more important at this stage of the game then whether their shots are falling.

I think it may be a blessing in disguise, long term, that Nolan will be out for the first couple of games. This may give the team a couple of more opportunities against lesser opponents to use Kyle, Andre and Jordan for significant minutes in game settings in the back-court, in case Jon or Nolan has an injury or foul trouble at some point this year.

I am also encouraged to hear that Brian, Lance and Olek seem to be playing better than last year as well.

And, of course, I am now looking forward to Jumbo's Phase 1 report and the discussion that ensues now that we have a bit more to talk about and the real games are starting soon.

ChicagoCrazy84
11-04-2009, 11:12 AM
“I didn’t think we played big when the big lineup was in. We were not aggressive inside and I told the guys after the game ‘When you get the ball inside, you don’t shoot the ball, you score the ball.’ There’s a big difference, especially if you get an offensive rebound. You don’t shoot it, you score it. Scoring means that you see contact. You want to get points. You get the ball inside, it’s not about getting a shot off, it’s about scoring the ball. It’s an old time way of saying and I thought there were numerous times tonight that we got an offensive rebound or got the ball inside and we were taking shots going away from the basket.”


Cough, cough...Mason

CEF1959
11-04-2009, 11:23 AM
Or, as someone said on this forum this morning:

"The only way to win basketball games is to put the ball in the basket."

DukeCO2009
11-04-2009, 11:53 AM
Noticed last night that Mason and Miles both simply have "Plumlee" on their uniforms. Was expecting to see "Ma. Plumlee" and "Mi. Plumlee". The TV guys aren't gonna like this :p.

Devilsfan
11-04-2009, 12:08 PM
We have three really good basketball players. They need to stay healthy. Nolan is our Lawson this year. Great to see him take over the role of a leader on offense. Of course the bigs are going to get rebounds against Finley Ohio. I started to ask "have the Freshmen arrived on campus yet?" but was quickly reminded that Freshmen don't usually contribute much in the first part of their careers unless they happen to be named Deng or Jwill. I wish we were a little more athletic but maybe after next week that can change for next year.

Kedsy
11-04-2009, 12:24 PM
I wish we were a little more athletic

For those who say we're not athletic, what do you mean, exactly? We seem to have a lot of strength and jumping ability. We seem to have a good amount of speed. Do you mean quickness?

I ask this because of our 10 recruited-scholarship players, Miles, Mason, Olek, Nolan, Lance, and Andre all appear to be plenty "athletic." Kyle may not have the quickest feet in the world but to call him unathletic seems crazy. Jon is said to have amazing physical endurance and can make plays like at the end of the Texas game, which a non-athlete couldn't make (although granted he doesn't have outstanding hops or especially quick feet). Which leaves Brian and Ryan (who at least appears to have good coordination if no other traditional athletic skills). If you break it down like that, it doesn't seem to me that the unathletic label should stick so well.

MChambers
11-04-2009, 12:36 PM
Noticed last night that Mason and Miles both simply have "Plumlee" on their uniforms. Was expecting to see "Ma. Plumlee" and "Mi. Plumlee". The TV guys aren't gonna like this :p.

It will lead to a new and improved (but dangerous) drinking game involving games when Mike Patrick is the play-by-play announcer.

HaveFunExpectToWin
11-04-2009, 12:37 PM
I'm not sure it's been mentioned, but kudos to Green Man for showing up during the game. I just spotted him in a pic of what looks like a halftime or timeout show.

http://www.blueplanetshots.com/2009-10/Games/Duke-vs-Findlay/DSC0723/702783456_aeqiz-M.jpg

Devilsfan
11-04-2009, 12:40 PM
I guess it might be perception when I look at the appearance of our team. When I think of athletic I think of our 1999 team or a very uptempo style of play.

Vincetaylor
11-04-2009, 12:44 PM
For those who say we're not athletic, what do you mean, exactly? We seem to have a lot of strength and jumping ability. We seem to have a good amount of speed. Do you mean quickness?

I ask this because of our 10 recruited-scholarship players, Miles, Mason, Olek, Nolan, Lance, and Andre all appear to be plenty "athletic." Kyle may not have the quickest feet in the world but to call him unathletic seems crazy. Jon is said to have amazing physical endurance and can make plays like at the end of the Texas game, which a non-athlete couldn't make (although granted he doesn't have outstanding hops or especially quick feet). Which leaves Brian and Ryan (who at least appears to have good coordination if no other traditional athletic skills). If you break it down like that, it doesn't seem to me that the unathletic label should stick so well.

They are all athletic...just not as athletic(mainly quickness) as the teams who usually make it to the Final Four.

bigj4194
11-04-2009, 12:54 PM
Noticed last night that Mason and Miles both simply have "Plumlee" on their uniforms. Was expecting to see "Ma. Plumlee" and "Mi. Plumlee". The TV guys aren't gonna like this :p.

It's slightly disappointing. I always thought it would be entertaining <IF> Marshall did indeed come to duke because then we would have:
Miles: Mi Plumlee
Mason: Mas Plumlee
Marshall: Mar Plumlee

:p

CEF1959
11-04-2009, 12:58 PM
Maybe it's because of the prospect of Mar joining that Duke didn't put Ma and Mi on the jerseys. They'd have to redo them if Mar joins, and putting Mas and Mil would be a bit presumptuous of Mar's decisionmaking.

Commentators can tell them apart. They have different numbers.

UrinalCake
11-04-2009, 01:20 PM
Commentators can tell them apart. They have different numbers.

Well, Brian Zoubek has a different number than Greg Koubek did, but according to a lot of commentators they are indistinguishable:)

Kedsy
11-04-2009, 01:28 PM
They are all athletic...just not as athletic(mainly quickness) as the teams who usually make it to the Final Four.

You've taken a survey? I've attended 20 of the past 21 Final Fours, and plenty of those teams seemed less than extraordinarily quick/athletic. A few of them seemed almost plodding (I remember Wisconsin a couple of years but there were plenty of others). Frankly, if you take away Lawson (and maybe Ed Davis, who is athletic but I'm not sure how quick he is), how quick/athletic was the rest of last year's UNC team? How quick/athletic were the Duke Final Four teams of the late '80s?

If what you're saying is many of those teams had at least one uber-quick/athletic player (e.g., Lawson, Felton, Dwyane Wade, Robert Brickey) that this year's Duke team lacks, you may have a point. It's possible Nolan can pick up that mantle for Duke this year.

jacone21
11-04-2009, 01:47 PM
http://media2.newsobserver.com/smedia/2009/11/03/23/Duke_Nov__3__2009_007.embedded.prod_affiliate.156. JPG

Zoubek: OMGZ!!!! Not the Mind Meld! Not the Mind Meld!


sorry :D

airowe
11-04-2009, 01:48 PM
http://media2.newsobserver.com/smedia/2009/11/03/23/Duke_Nov__3__2009_007.embedded.prod_affiliate.156. JPG

Zoubek: OMGZ!!!! Not the Mind Meld! Not the Mind Meld!


sorry :D

Those guys should have known not to touch the beard. No one has ever touched zouBeard and lived to tell about it.

Tim1515
11-04-2009, 01:56 PM
I think Duke is lacking some lateral quickness on the perimeter. Even Nolan isn't especially quick...add Jon, Dawkins and Kyle. There are a lot of small, compact guards around the country that will drive on them...(one reason i really like Tyler Thornton coming in)

That being said...we make up for quickness on the front line. Lt, Miles and Mason are all probably "quicker" then most 5s and 4s they will see.

I think the big thing is athletic strength. Being able to take contact. Guys that come to mind...Brand, J-Will, Nelson, Hendo.

Singler has is but he doesn't have an overwhelming amount of size or hops to use it inside as well as we'd like. Miles might get there.

BlueDevilBaby
11-04-2009, 02:01 PM
It will lead to a new and improved (but dangerous) drinking game involving games when Mike Patrick is the play-by-play announcer.

What's the over-under on how many times he gets them confused.


Strike that, we could just make that an over-under on confusing all the guys on the team.

Troublemaker
11-04-2009, 02:16 PM
Whether the team looks great or awful right now, I'm just going to take everything in stride since teams can morph and improve or regress so much over the course of the season. Take last year's team for example. Duke spent the first half of the season being great defensively and shaky offensively. Then, the defense regressed (or arguably was exposed against better competition), and then Scheyer was inserted at PG, and Duke became a much better offensive team than defensive team for the rest of the season (the final game notwithstanding).

The point is, things change. Even though Duke has had a lot of turnovers these first two exhibition games, I'd be shocked if we weren't eventually a good ball-handling team. Scheyer takes good care of the ball, Singler and Smith are junior wings that should challenge for national and ACC honors respectively, and the Plumlees, while young, are versatile bigs that can handle, catch, and pass with ease (scoring might be a different issue, though...) We just have the talent to be a low turnover team, so even if we start the season as a high turnover team, I expect the cream to rise to the top.

Likewise, even if Duke begins the season poor defensively (not that this has been the case so far), I would expect that with our overall length and shotblocking ability, Duke will be very good defensively in the end. The young big men will get into foul trouble often, though, because that's what young big men do with few exceptions.

I do expect scoring to sometimes be a pain because I'm not sure any of the bigs can really put the ball in the basket, whether from inside or outside. But we'll see. Coach K certainly seems to expect/want them to improve in this area.

msdukie
11-04-2009, 02:30 PM
Maybe it's because of the prospect of Mar joining that Duke didn't put Ma and Mi on the jerseys. They'd have to redo them if Mar joins, and putting Mas and Mil would be a bit presumptuous of Mar's decisionmaking.

Commentators can tell them apart. They have different numbers.

And I'm sure that Nike wont be providing Duke with any new jerseys in the next two years. :cool:

Kedsy
11-04-2009, 02:32 PM
I think Duke is lacking some lateral quickness on the perimeter. Even Nolan isn't especially quick...add Jon, Dawkins and Kyle. There are a lot of small, compact guards around the country that will drive on them...(one reason i really like Tyler Thornton coming in)

That being said...we make up for quickness on the front line. Lt, Miles and Mason are all probably "quicker" then most 5s and 4s they will see.

I think the big thing is athletic strength. Being able to take contact. Guys that come to mind...Brand, J-Will, Nelson, Hendo.

Singler has is but he doesn't have an overwhelming amount of size or hops to use it inside as well as we'd like. Miles might get there.

I agree with this for the most part. If the original poster had said we lacked lateral quickness on the perimeter I wouldn't have spoken up. I'm just tired of hearing fans and commentators talk about how we're not athletic.

Although I'm also hopeful that among Nolan, Andre, and Lance our lateral quickness on the perimeter will at least be adequate by the start of the ACC season.

DukeUsul
11-04-2009, 02:37 PM
What's the over-under on how many times he gets them confused.


Strike that, we could just make that an over-under on confusing all the guys on the team.

Actually, this will improve Mike Patrick's play calling. By having two Plumlees on the team, this actually increases the probability he'll be correct when he calls random post player "Plumlee."

jv001
11-04-2009, 03:30 PM
I agree with this for the most part. If the original poster had said we lacked lateral quickness on the perimeter I wouldn't have spoken up. I'm just tired of hearing fans and commentators talk about how we're not athletic.

Although I'm also hopeful that among Nolan, Andre, and Lance our lateral quickness on the perimeter will at least be adequate by the start of the ACC season.

Coach K has said that the team's working on some zone defense this year. I would hope that if we play a team like Villanova(last year), we would not play pressure man to man. There are different ways to play a man to man defense and I trust Coach K to put in a game plan to defend the opposition. Our offense will be different this year because of our size. I don't think we will depend on hitting so many 3 point shots this year. Can't wait until the regular season to tipoff. Go Duke!

Tim1515
11-04-2009, 03:30 PM
I agree with this for the most part. If the original poster had said we lacked lateral quickness on the perimeter I wouldn't have spoken up. I'm just tired of hearing fans and commentators talk about how we're not athletic.

Although I'm also hopeful that among Nolan, Andre, and Lance our lateral quickness on the perimeter will at least be adequate by the start of the ACC season.

It seems pretty obvious...there is a large section of the basketball community that believes one thing strongly but knows they'll get bashed for saying it in so many words...

White = unathletic

I think Duke has a chance this year to prove otherwise.

sagegrouse
11-04-2009, 03:34 PM
Actually, this will improve Mike Patrick's play calling. By having two Plumlees on the team, this actually increases the probability he'll be correct when he calls random post player "Plumlee."

I wonder how long it will take the announcers to just use the first names, Miles and Mason, during radio and TV airing? I predict that Bob Harris will start the season this way, and by the end of the season the regular TV broadcasters will adopt the same convention when both Plumlees are on the floor.

sagegrouse

patentgeek
11-04-2009, 03:46 PM
I'm not sure it's been mentioned, but kudos to Green Man for showing up during the game. I just spotted him in a pic of what looks like a halftime or timeout show.

http://www.blueplanetshots.com/2009-10/Games/Duke-vs-Findlay/DSC0723/702783456_aeqiz-M.jpg

Green Man indeed did show up for the game, and the photo shows hiim participating in a musical chairs-style lay-up contest at halftime. Unfortunately, and as you can see in the photo, Green Man's superhero get-up doesn't provide a lot of sight lines, and I don't believe that his fingers are really garbed for dribbling/shooting, so Green Man struggled in this particular contest.

Greg_Newton
11-04-2009, 04:07 PM
1. Re: Mason's propensity to fade and shy away from contact around the basket if he's not dunking... it's funny, I wonder if this is one area where the countless games of backyard ball with Miles has hindered him a little bit. I imagine playing 1-on-1 with your bigger older brother, if you don't dunk it around the basket you either get stuffed or hammered... and you don't get 2 shots for taking the contact. May also have something to do with Miles propensity for silly going-for-everything fouls.

Obviously, K was right on the money when talking about just "scoring" when you're near the rim, rather than "shooting". If Mason can learn to lead with his elbows, put his shoulder into the defender's chest and score through people, rather than sneaking it up and around them, he'll be a difference maker inside. I see this as a great opportunity to dispel the "big man developing" myth attached to the staff in recent years... Mason really seems like a different animal (both physically and mentally) than Shav or McBob, and he's just a little coaching away from becoming very effective.

2. Re: Us playing nowhere near our potential and doubling up a top D2 team 80-40... personally, I'm thrilled. I feel like if this was last year, and everyone had played great and executed well and we'd won by the same margin, people would be much happier... which doesn't make sense. It just means our ceiling is that much higher this year. Good teams have to win on effort and execution, but great teams can win games on talent alone (see '99). Syracuse would be an obvious example of a team with (I assume) less physical talent than can't afford an off day (similar to us last year).

Obviously you can't read too much from these 2 games, but I get the feeling that this team has more talent and size to carry it when it's not playing well than the 07-09 squads... hopefully our stars won't have to give heroic efforts to win big games. It's not a great thing to peak in December because everyone is already maximizing their talents.

BD80
11-04-2009, 04:47 PM
It's slightly disappointing. I always thought it would be entertaining <IF> Marshall did indeed come to duke because then we would have:
Miles: Mi Plumlee
Mason: Mas Plumlee
Marshall: Mar Plumlee

:p

¿Mas Plumlee?

¡Quiero mucho mas Plumlee!

¡Vamanos Perky, andale, andale!

¿Quieres un poco musica de Mark Anthony? ¿Tal vez alguna Barry Blanco?

Kedsy
11-04-2009, 04:49 PM
It seems pretty obvious...there is a large section of the basketball community that believes one thing strongly but knows they'll get bashed for saying it in so many words...

White = unathletic

I think Duke has a chance this year to prove otherwise.

Well, yes, I suspect that's what is in the back of a lot of people's minds, and it kind of ticks me off.

But I disagree with you on one thing. Even if Duke is wildly successful, the small minds who feel that way won't consider it "proof" of anything.

Kedsy
11-04-2009, 04:51 PM
¿Mas Plumlee?

¡Quiero mucho mas Plumlee!

¡Vamanos Perky, andale, andale!

¿Quieres un poco musica de Mark Anthony? ¿Tal vez alguna Barry Blanco?

Muy gracioso.

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-04-2009, 04:52 PM
¿Mas Plumlee?

¡Quiero mucho mas Plumlee!

¡Vamanos Perky, andale, andale!

¿Quieres un poco musica de Mark Anthony? ¿Tal vez alguna Barry Blanco?

So what did you say.

CEF1959
11-04-2009, 04:58 PM
Duke is a small expensive private school that often features exceptionally gifted white athletes and wins consistently.

Put it all together, and that's why people love to hate Duke. And that's not going to change. It starts with people hating consistent winners, then the other stuff spills in (especially the "white" and "expensive" things), and it becomes a long-term loathing.

Oh, sure, people come up with their own rationales that don't focus on those things. Laettner's attitude, Hurley's attitude, J.J.'s attitude, K's attitude. [Note that all happen to be white and good]. But wait for another small expensive private school with good white athletes that wins on the national stage consistently, and they'll come to be hated too.

BD80
11-04-2009, 05:03 PM
So what did you say.

More Plumlee! ...

Some mood music? ...

Buckeye Devil
11-07-2009, 08:42 AM
I am sure it was a great honor and experience for the University of Findlay to receive this exhibition invitation from Duke. Although I did not attend UF, I live in Findlay and try to keep up on its sports programs. The university takes pride in its basketball program and rightly so, especially after last year's special run.