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View Full Version : For The Recruiting Gurus: How Does Irving's Committment affect Thornton?



NYC Duke Fan
10-23-2009, 01:38 AM
Effect Tyler Thorton, since in 2011, Duke's back court will consist of Senior Nolan Smith, Sophmores Andre Hawkins and Seth Curry and Freshman Kyrie Irving ? Where does he get any playing time ?

Second Query..How does Irving's committment effect the recruitment of Quinn Cook and or Chris Jones both PGs and Brad Beal a SG for the class of 2012 ? Assuming Thorton still comes, why would they knowing that in 2012, Duke's backcourt would consist of 2 juniors and 2 sophmores ?

Thank You

speedevil2001
10-23-2009, 02:20 AM
irvings recruitment doesnt effect thortons or the other players listed.

juise
10-23-2009, 02:44 AM
Effect Tyler Thorton, since in 2011, Duke's back court will consist of Senior Nolan Smith, Sophmores Andre Hawkins and Seth Curry and Freshman Kyrie Irving ? Where does he get any playing time ?

Second Query..How does Irving's committment effect the recruitment of Quinn Cook and or Chris Jones both PGs and Brad Beal a SG for the class of 2012 ? Assuming Thorton still comes, why would they knowing that in 2012, Duke's backcourt would consist of 2 juniors and 2 sophmores ?

Thank You


I think the answer to the first question is pretty straight-forward. He will play for the amount of time that he earns during practice and games, just like everyone else.

If his abilities rank where the recruiting gurus say that they do, you might expect that we will see him most during early season games and in "garbage time" during his freshman year. But... anything can happen. When was Andre Dawkins going to play this year? Why would he possibly want to graduate early just to sit behind Elliot? Things change.

Besides, of the players mentioned, only Kyrie is expected to come to Duke as a clear-cut point guard. Nolan and Seth came to Duke as wing scorers, but will likely play the point a decent amount due to (1) Duke's positional need and (2) the players' need to develop PG skills to play at the next level. Tyler could come in and be a much more natural floor general. Only time will tell.


(Question #2)
I am not as well-versed in the recruiting stuff as many, but I will make a few points on this one. First, I don't think that we can count on Kyrie playing more than one year at Duke. I'm not expecting that he will be NPOY and lead us to a championship, but I know that he's high on NBA scout radars.

Second, I think that the staff will let the kids make the decision about whether the situation suits them. Cook and/or Jones may think that they are good enough to earn playing time. Recall that Greg (the consensus #3 PG his class) took the starting PG job from (senior) Sean Dockery.

juise
10-23-2009, 03:01 AM
One thing to add to questions #1...

When I was looking at the composite 2005 rankings to see where Greg was rated (#13/#3PG), I noticed a few lower rated point guards... AJ Abrams (Texas, #83), Jeremy Pargo (Gonzaga, #84), Darren Collison (UCLA, #98). Kyrie is the #2/#3 PG in 2010 and Tyler is #20/#21. Let's see how it all shakes out. :)

studdlee10
10-23-2009, 07:38 AM
Call it a hunch, but I think we are going hard after Rivers/Beal, and from what I have been reading, it is likely we land land one of the two. I doubt we are recruiting Cook or any other PG in 2011 hard. Worst case scenario, Kyrie leaves after a year. We'll still have Thornton, Curry, Dawkins, and Rivers/Beal to man the guard spots. We will be fine.

Oriole Way
10-23-2009, 02:41 PM
Thornton will be a quality reserve for a year or two, and great insurance against early defections. He has a good chance to be a very solid starting point by the team he's a senior. He's also going to make Kyrie Irving a better player as a result of going head to head in practices from Day 1.

I love the fact we have such a quality kid locked up, and love what he brings to the table.

Tim1515
10-23-2009, 02:57 PM
Tyler actively recruited Knight for Duke before it became clear that Irving was the #1 target. He's said in the past he wants to play with the best players he can...Kyrie isn't a threat...he's a teammate.

Tyler is a 4 year player and even if Irving leaves after 1 or 2 years Duke will be after another top PG...this is what happens at the top.

IMO Tyler as a junior/senior is much like Wojo was.

AlaskanAssassin
10-23-2009, 03:50 PM
I kind of see Ty Thornton as a Sean Dockery type player. I am assuming he is here to defend as his primary role. What do you guys think? Am I way off?



PS: I am new, nice to meet you fine people. Hope to be a regular here.

Kedsy
10-23-2009, 04:16 PM
I kind of see Ty Thornton as a Sean Dockery type player. I am assuming he is here to defend as his primary role. What do you guys think? Am I way off?

I don't think you're way off base. I have never seen him play, but from what I've read I'm hoping that by his senior year he'll have a little bit of a Tommy Amaker vibe -- great defender, good floor general, winner.

jv001
10-23-2009, 04:28 PM
I don't think you're way off base. I have never seen him play, but from what I've read I'm hoping that by his senior year he'll have a little bit of a Tommy Amaker vibe -- great defender, good floor general, winner.

I would take that "a little bit of a Tommy Amaker vibe" in a minute. TA was one of the best PGs to ever wear a Duke uniform and if Tyler can be somewhat like him, I'll be very excited. Go Duke!

Saratoga2
10-23-2009, 05:11 PM
Coach K has always been ethical and holds to his commitments to kids. If a kid is recruited and signs, then he will have a scholarship unless he leaves for any of a variety of reasons.

My understanding for 2010 is that the following kids will be back, although I am not certain if all of them are scholarship players.

Seth Curry
Olek Cyzy
Andre Dawkins
Steve Johnson
Ryan Kelly
Casey Peters
Mason Plumlee
Miles Plumlee
Kyle Singler
Nolan Smith


Right now we have verbal commitments from 3 players:
Kyrie Irving
Josh Hairston
Tyler Thornton

Our primary remaining offered player is
Harrison Barnes

Others still showing up as possibles:
Justin Coleman
Roscoe Smith

From the numners here, it looks like Harrison Barnes would fill our roster unless someone leaves early, or someone of the current players is not on scholarship. Does anyone have further insight?

ACCBBallFan
10-23-2009, 05:35 PM
Johnson is a walk on who was given a surplus schoalrship. Even with Barnes, there is room for one more.

Irving-Thonrton
Smith-Curry
Barnes-Dawkins-Czyz
Singler-Kelly-Hairston
Plumlee-Plumlee

Depending on who plays the best, Thornton could lose backup PG time to Curry, probably not Smith who is from this point forward (no puns intended) a SG.

That could ripple to more time for Dre at SG and Kyle at WF to break the logjam with Kelly/Hairston.

Welcome2DaSlopes
10-23-2009, 06:47 PM
I would definatly like to see another big man on our team. Josh smith is off the board from what i've read. so is their anyone else.

JaMarcus Russell
10-23-2009, 06:56 PM
Steve Johnson and Casey Peters are walk-ons. Since there is a surplus of scholarships right now, I am assuming that Johnson and Jordan Davidson are on scholarship this year, but this is only done when the team hasn't reached the scholarship limit.

If Barnes commits, Duke will have 12 scholarship players for 2010-11, assuming everyone stays from this year's team. In 2011-12, Singler and Smith will both be gone, so there will be three open scholarships for the 2011 class, again assuming no one transfers or goes pro early. If they get a big man this year, there will be only two open scholarships for 2011.

Unless one of the premier big guys has a sudden change of heart and wants to come to Duke, I think it would be wiser to hold out a scholarship for next year. Hopefully they can sign Marshall Plumlee, Austin Rivers, and either Brad Beal or Quincy Miller.

BD80
10-23-2009, 07:04 PM
...If Barnes commits, Duke will have 12 scholarship players for 2010-11, assuming everyone stays from this year's team. In 2011-12, Singler and Smith will both be gone, so there will be three open scholarships for the 2011 class, again assuming no one transfers or goes pro early. If they get a big man this year, there will be only two open scholarships for 2011.

Unless one of the premier big guys has a sudden change of heart and wants to come to Duke, I think it would be wiser to hold out a scholarship for next year. Hopefully they can sign Marshall Plumlee, Austin Rivers, and either Brad Beal or Quincy Miller.

Why, that sounds like Coach K is selecting, not recruiting.

And we know that can't happen because of Coach K's conflict due to the US national team.

west_coast_devil
10-23-2009, 07:17 PM
I would definatly like to see another big man on our team. Josh smith is off the board from what i've read. so is their anyone else.

I was wondering that same question myself..... A "dominate big man" along with Barnes would be a ridiculous addition to an already impressive recruiting class.:rolleyes:

JaMarcus Russell
10-23-2009, 07:17 PM
Why, that sounds like Coach K is selecting, not recruiting.

What do you mean?

chrisheery
10-23-2009, 07:26 PM
The fact is, not every kid that gets recruited will make it to the NBA. I (and probably most kids) believe that if you are talented enough, you will rise to the top no matter else who is at your school. If you aren't you might as well get the most out of the free education you are offered. Most 17-18 year old kids may not think this way, but we tend to get some that are smart enough to see the big picture. I think Thornton may just fit that mold based on his decisions and things I have read about him.

BD80
10-23-2009, 07:38 PM
Why, that sounds like Coach K is selecting, not recruiting.


What do you mean?

In past years, Coach K had such a successful run of recruiting, a joke born of jealousy and admiration arose in the coaching ranks that Coach K did not have to recruit, he merely selected the recuits he wanted.

JaMarcus Russell
10-23-2009, 07:44 PM
Gotcha. I can certainly see how people would say that after the 2002 class in particular.

ACCBBallFan
10-23-2009, 08:17 PM
Steve Johnson and Casey Peters are walk-ons. Since there is a surplus of scholarships right now, I am assuming that Johnson and Jordan Davidson are on scholarship this year, but this is only done when the team hasn't reached the scholarship limit.

If Barnes commits, Duke will have 12 scholarship players for 2010-11, assuming everyone stays from this year's team. In 2011-12, Singler and Smith will both be gone, so there will be three open scholarships for the 2011 class, again assuming no one transfers or goes pro early. If they get a big man this year, there will be only two open scholarships for 2011.

Unless one of the premier big guys has a sudden change of heart and wants to come to Duke, I think it would be wiser to hold out a scholarship for next year. Hopefully they can sign Marshall Plumlee, Austin Rivers, and either Brad Beal or Quincy Miller.Yes, one would think the third Plumleee brother is almost automatic to Duke. I personally think he might choose to go elsewhere to create his own mark, somewhere like coach Bennett at UVA.

It also depends on how well his brothers perform this year. If they are solid, then the big man in 2010 would have to be better than Marshall Plumlee and Quincy Miller or you just hold the scholarship another year and get thiem and either Austin Rivers or Bradley Beal.

Plenty of other good guys like Quinn Cook if some go elsewhere or more scholarships open up with early departures.

That would kind of guarantee that Mason sticks around another year to have all 3 on the same team but he likely goes to NBA the same year Miles and Olek graduate.

So by then, either Hairston has to have bulked up or Duke would need a center in 2011 and two in 2012 class.

There is something to be said for getting another 2010 guy to serve an apprenticeship in 2010 and have a year of Duke practices under his belt in 2011 versus a newbie in class of 2011. With recruiting being such an inexact science, a lot to be said for getting the best guys when you can get them.

Also less of a competition for time when Team-USA duties peak.

JaMarcus Russell
10-23-2009, 08:27 PM
There is something to be said for getting another 2010 guy to serve an apprenticeship in 2010 and have a year of Duke practices under his belt in 2011 versus a newbie in class of 2011. With recruiting being such an inexact science, a lot to be said for getting the best guys when you can get them.

Even if that is the case, there aren't too many elite 4s and 5s left in this year's class that are unaccounted for. Even if they are not committed elsewhere, they are probably down to their final 4 or 5 schools, and I am not aware of any guy that we are even slightly involved with other than Josh Smith.

BD80
10-23-2009, 08:43 PM
...Also less of a competition for time when Team-USA duties peak.

Because his conflicts last year (he missed around three days of the open contact period to fly to China for some reason) reduced the recruiting haul to:

Dawkins,
Hairston,
Thornton,
Curry,
Irving

And has us in VERY good position with Barnes, the top player in the class.
And has a top recruit, Austin Rivers, recruiting Duke.
And has laid the groundwork for several other key recruits (MP3, Miller, Beal, Cook)
Coaches have nightmares about having a year like that.

The sad thing is Coach K refuses to admit the obvious; he has deluded himself to the point where he publicly proclaims that his national team commitments haven't hurt recruiting, that they have only improved his energy level and knowledge of the game.

Poor guy just won't admit when he is wrong. Can you believe people like that?

NSDukeFan
10-24-2009, 09:45 AM
Because his conflicts last year (he missed around three days of the open contact period to fly to China for some reason) reduced the recruiting haul to:

Dawkins,
Hairston,
Thornton,
Curry,
Irving

And has us in VERY good position with Barnes, the top player in the class.
And has a top recruit, Austin Rivers, recruiting Duke.
And has laid the groundwork for several other key recruits (MP3, Miller, Beal, Cook)
Coaches have nightmares about having a year like that.

The sad thing is Coach K refuses to admit the obvious; he has deluded himself to the point where he publicly proclaims that his national team commitments haven't hurt recruiting, that they have only improved his energy level and knowledge of the game.

Poor guy just won't admit when he is wrong. Can you believe people like that?

I agree, can't believe Coach K is deluding himself like that. I wish he could have those 3 days back. That is way more important than having coached the Olympic team. It seems he wasn't able to lay the groundwork down for recruiting these players when he was preparing for the Olympics either.

Devilsfan
10-24-2009, 10:25 AM
Poor guy? He's a self made multi-millionaire. If it were just for money he doesn't need either gig. Basketball is his passion and he's damn good at it. I for one am just glad I had the opportunity to watch him in action. K is the best. Thanks Coach for setting such a good role model in yourself and your program. Our country needs more Coach K's.

mcdukie
10-24-2009, 11:34 AM
Thornton will be a quality reserve for a year or two, and great insurance against early defections. He has a good chance to be a very solid starting point by the team he's a senior. He's also going to make Kyrie Irving a better player as a result of going head to head in practices from Day 1.

I love the fact we have such a quality kid locked up, and love what he brings to the table.

Thornton will be a player we rely on before he leaves Duke. He is a winner and will only make the team better. I see more Dockery than Amaker but that isn't a stretch. We will be in good shape in two years either way. I saw Irving as a sophomore and I knew he was a top recruit. I didn't know he would evolve into a one year college player...we will see. Good problem to have!!

I think if we don't get Barnes, we will have a legit shot at Roscoe Smith.