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Edouble
10-15-2009, 11:08 AM
Is there a link/source for Coach K discussing the cheer sheets? Was this something he just mentioned in passing, or something that he intentionally brought up and plans on going after?

Also, Steve Francis grabbed his crotch, he didn't give everyone the finger.

miramar
10-15-2009, 11:11 AM
Basically Coach K tells the students to be more spontaneous and then tells them how to do it. Actually, that doesn't sound all that spontaneous, but a little pressure to perform doesn't hurt.

http://sports.chronicleblogs.com/2009/10/14/coach-k-asks-students-to-be-spontaneous-in-cameron/

miramar
10-15-2009, 11:19 AM
"Specifically, Krzyzewski asked students to eliminate the cheer sheets distributed before every game in favor of new and different chants for each opponent."

I have seen some recent cheer sheets and they contain a lot of useful information about each team and new things to chant about, so there's a bit of a contradiction here.

That doesn't mean the Crazies can't improvise. For example, in the early season game against the Presbyterian Blue Hose (I'm not making this up) their cheerleaders started a very witty cheer that consisted of BLUE (pause) HOSE. The Crazies filled the pause with "I let it rain on them..."

El_Diablo
10-15-2009, 11:21 AM
So now there will be 10 good signs in Cameron...and 500 lame ones.

DukeSean
10-15-2009, 11:22 AM
Honestly it gets a little mechanical and robotic when you have cheer sheets telling people what to do....info sheets can be helpful, but I for one am glad K wants to get rid of "cheer" sheets.

Not to mention, some of those cheers on the cheer sheets were just awful - and then you get the whole student section doing a crappy cheer?

flyingdutchdevil
10-15-2009, 11:35 AM
I disagree about the cheer sheets. When I came to Duke, I didn't know much about Duke basketball. I left Duke a huge fan of the team and of the sport (hence my activity on this site). I think that this goes for the majority of students - believe it or not, most of us didn't go to Duke for the basketball! For the most part, we don't know much about the cheers, the opposing team, or Duke basketball tradition. Hell, only 15% of us are from the state of Carolina and have the potentially to see a live game. I personally liked the cheer sheets - they provided structure to the cheers. That said, the best cheers do come from the grad students, who are always the most creative.

Also, I find Coach K a little contradictory. In the past 5 years, he has frequently complained about the lack of support from the Duke student section. And I can assure you that the lack of a cheer sheet will lead to even less voice from the Duke students...

InSpades
10-15-2009, 11:40 AM
Signs? The last thing I wanted when I went into Cameron was someone in front of me holding up a big sign. Close behind that was some doofus with blue paint all over him rubbing up against me all the time. I never read a "cheer sheet" in my 4 years except maybe to laugh at it. It seems like the most important thing for the Crazies to do is to be ridiculously loud. Spontaneity and creativity are both great but they can't be forced. They are things that just sort of happen. I'm all for doing away with "cheer sheets" but this sign thing doesn't seem like the best of ideas to me. When I went into Cameron I went in there to yell as loud as I could and support my team. It wasn't because I wanted to be on TV and look cool.

Billy Dat
10-15-2009, 12:01 PM
If we go back 10-15 years, K was trying to tell the crazies to clean up their act - I'm paraphrasing from memory but it was something like, "Instead of being negative on the other team, cheer our guys on, stuff like 'Good one, Chris', 'Way to go Steve'"

The crazies rightly trotted out those most basic of cheers, verbatim.

I'm not saying K shouldn't intervene if the crazies are being destructively negative, but I think this is a topic he can recuse himself from.

alteran
10-15-2009, 12:04 PM
Basically Coach K tells the students to be more spontaneous and then tells them how to do it.

Awesome. And I also think this gets to the heart of the problem.

It's ultimately hard to be spontaneous and edgy without sometimes stepping over the line. For every Speedo Guy who becomes a school legend, there is a Body Paint Guy who goes naked, paints himself from head to toe in The One True Shade, and flops (in more ways than one).

The bottom line is this: a place can unfailingly show class. A place can be funny, original, and intimidating to opponents.

Pick one.

This doesn't mean that you can't strike a good BALANCE between perfect class and ideal spontaneity. Sanford's Avuncular Letter nailed it-- he managed to tell the students that they had gone too far without killing the spontaneity. You can keep the misadventures to a minimum-- but you have to nurture the environment carefully and with creativity.

If decrees and fiddling with symptoms could fix the environment, then one of the five or six previous attempts would have been more successful. Time to get creative, powers-that-be.

alteran
10-15-2009, 12:11 PM
I'm not saying K shouldn't intervene if the crazies are being destructively negative, but I think this is a topic he can recuse himself from.

I hate it when people say in one short sentence what I barely managed to say in twelve. Bravo.

Intervene without intimidating when significant lines are crossed. Don't micromanage.

Rudy
10-15-2009, 03:41 PM
That doesn't mean the Crazies can't improvise. For example, in the early season game against the Presbyterian Blue Hose (I'm not making this up) their cheerleaders started a very witty cheer that consisted of BLUE (pause) HOSE. The Crazies filled the pause with "I let it rain on them..."

My favorite cheer in recent seasons came from that game. When Oleg dunked, the cheer rang out: "Hose got Czyzed on!"

OldPhiKap
10-15-2009, 09:54 PM
When a Carolina fan told me that Crazies were using cheer sheets a few years ago, I actually accused him of making that up. I have been mortified ever since to know that it really happens.

Ditch the sheets.

Good call, Coach.

lpd1982
10-16-2009, 12:47 AM
I believe that the students who spent countless hours researching the opponents would have called them 'dirt' sheets-provided mostly as a tool for others to create their own unique, pithy cheers. In addition to info on the opposing teams' grades, crushes, and embarrassing fiascos, the sheets provided players names, positions and injury report-nice tool for fans even if they aren't making up cheers. Funny, no one seems to be ashamed of those sheets when ESPN and other media outlets give our school props for them as they did numerous times last year in print and through broadcast outlets.

Channing
10-16-2009, 09:25 AM
I believe that the students who spent countless hours researching the opponents would have called them 'dirt' sheets-provided mostly as a tool for others to create their own unique, pithy cheers. In addition to info on the opposing teams' grades, crushes, and embarrassing fiascos, the sheets provided players names, positions and injury report-nice tool for fans even if they aren't making up cheers. Funny, no one seems to be ashamed of those sheets when ESPN and other media outlets give our school props for them as they did numerous times last year in print and through broadcast outlets.

when I was at Duke there was nothing on the sheet that showed "hours" of research. All the information could be found doing a 5 minute google search.

hurleyfor3
10-16-2009, 10:35 AM
So it was cool when we would pass out copies of newspaper columns and Dean Smith's speeding tickets, but trying to, you know, save some trees by agglomerating all our opposition-related grievances onto one sheet of paper is verboten?

dgoore97
10-16-2009, 02:15 PM
Cheer sheets that choreograph what fans are going to say are the opposite of spontaneous. I was embarrassed when I heard they were being used. I think any reporting about them is not "props" it just makes the school look like a bunch of nerds.

Agree with k and anyone else who wants to get rid of them.

i would put fact sheets or news articles in a separate category..

pbc2
10-16-2009, 02:54 PM
I agree that cheer sheets should go - they are too scripted. 99% of the cheers that the line monitors came up with were lame and never used anyway. As I recall, most of the best cheers during my time in Cameron never appeared on a cheer sheet.

However, in the age of the internet, it seems that the students should be able to research and "get the word out" about potential vulnerabilities on the other team before the game - email, Twitter, Facebook, whatever else there is out there. Some relatively good cheers/taunts have come from this prep work - "Call her back," photos of Doherty, etc.

Edouble
10-16-2009, 10:44 PM
I disagree about the cheer sheets. When I came to Duke, I didn't know much about Duke basketball. I left Duke a huge fan of the team and of the sport (hence my activity on this site). I think that this goes for the majority of students - believe it or not, most of us didn't go to Duke for the basketball! For the most part, we don't know much about the cheers, the opposing team, or Duke basketball tradition.

The majority of the students also don't know any of the cheers when they get to Duke. Somehow, several generations of student fans managed to learn about the cheers and traditions without the sheets though.


And I can assure you that the lack of a cheer sheet will lead to even less voice from the Duke students...

How?

It wasn't any quieter when I was there... pre-cheer sheet.

zingit
10-17-2009, 11:08 PM
Cheer sheets that choreograph what fans are going to say are the opposite of spontaneous. I was embarrassed when I heard they were being used. I think any reporting about them is not "props" it just makes the school look like a bunch of nerds.

Agree with k and anyone else who wants to get rid of them.

i would put fact sheets or news articles in a separate category..

Yeah, but what we are calling "cheer sheets" really are more like "fact sheets," especially in the last couple of years. Although there were still a handful of cheers on them, as well as some exhortations to "Be loud!" there was also a lot of useful information about which players had academic problems or legal problems, or simply gave idiotic answers in interviews. And that information is the basis for potential spontaneous cheers. I don't think the so-called "cheer sheets" make fans less spontaneous; they just give the appearance of doing so. So even if fans ditch the cheer sheets, I still think that information should be spread through email or Facebook.

And I agree with the above posters who suggested there is somewhat of a contradiction between Coach K's requests to be respectful and positive, but also to be spontaneous and clever.

DukeFencer
10-18-2009, 12:23 AM
"I'm from Maryland, no one can beat me."

Edouble
10-18-2009, 02:52 AM
"I'm from Maryland, no one can beat me."

I don't get it.

DukeFencer
10-18-2009, 10:55 AM
I don't get it.

You didn't read the cheer sheet?

Exiled_Devil
10-18-2009, 09:59 PM
You didn't read the cheer sheet?

Well played. And it shows the value of the cheer sheets - getting out information that isn't widely known about the opposing team and their players in order to enable spontaneous cheers.

An amazing artist once told me that she was annoyed at how many people thought that artists were undisciplined by definition and didn't have to do much work. The opposite is true - it takes incredible discipline and a lot of research to make great art. The cheer sheets, as fact sheets, are a great thing for the Crazies and enable the creativity and spontaneity that people crave.

Edouble
10-19-2009, 12:07 AM
Well played. And it shows the value of the cheer sheets - getting out information that isn't widely known about the opposing team and their players in order to enable spontaneous cheers.

How was that well played? I still don't know what "I'm from Maryland and noone can beat me" means. I take it that phrase was on a cheer sheet at a game that I was not in the student section for because I had long since graduated? This was something that was written on a cheer sheet that the Crazies started chanting and it was well received?

By all means, stick up for cheer sheets if you believe in them. But if you are going to try to convince me of how great they are, don't keep me in the dark about your argument.

DukeSean
10-19-2009, 12:42 AM
"I'm from Maryland, no one can beat me."
Hi Alli!

DukeFencer
10-19-2009, 12:49 AM
I don't know that quote because it was on a cheer sheet, I know that quote because I follow ACC basketball closely. Some Duke students do that, most don't. Without a cheer sheet, many students would have missed the opportunity to mock Nik Caner-Medley for saying that after ripping off his shirt when he got arrested for drunk and disorderly contact. I would have known that whether I was a current Duke student or not (I was.) However, if I didn't follow ACC basketball, I would have had a hard time figuring out what exactly was being said by the 5 students who started the cheer, and even once I figured out the words I wouldn't have known why, which leads to either blind chanting, or more standing and wondering. The cheer sheet didn't say "let's use this cheer," it simply gave the facts on Caner-Medley's arrest.

On a separate note, I can't resist another chance to hate on Caner-Medley.
"Two names, no game" remains a favorite of mine.

Edouble
10-19-2009, 01:09 AM
On a separate note, I can't resist another chance to hate on Caner-Medley.
"Two names, no game" remains a favorite of mine.

I thought maybe "Myra Piggy" would be a favorite of yours.

OldPhiKap
10-19-2009, 09:04 AM
Only Nik Caner-Medley can beat Nik Caner-Medley.

Seriously, though, I agree with the poster above: you don't need a cheer sheet to know about this incident. It was pretty widely-reported.

Let go of the reliance on a script. Improvise. It's fun.

El_Diablo
10-19-2009, 10:20 AM
Perhaps this is indicative of the evolving nature of what it means to be a Duke student. It's not the 80's anymore. The student body is a lot more international, the party atmosphere has been severely limited in recent years, and the academic standards are ever-increasing (almost ridiculously so). Basketball is still very important, but there's a million other things pulling students in different directions and demanding their time. While cheer sheets serve a limited purpose (dirt sharing), recently they've become sort of a crutch. Some people think, why read up about an opponent on your own if you know you can just read the cheer sheet before the game and be told everything important? It's a self-perpetuating cycle.

The dirt sharing still definitely needs to happen beforehand to contribute to the "spontaneity"...just don't print out planned cheers and distribute before every game. :)

UrinalCake
10-19-2009, 11:36 AM
Maybe instead of "Cheer Sheet" we need to call them "Fact Sheets." In other words, let's use it as a way to disseminate information about the opponents without scripting the cheers themselves. Does that sound like a reasonable compromise?

El_Diablo
10-19-2009, 11:43 AM
Maybe instead of "Cheer Sheet" we need to call them "Fact Sheets." In other words, let's use it as a way to disseminate information about the opponents without scripting the cheers themselves. Does that sound like a reasonable compromise?

Yes, that's how I feel.

DukeFencer
10-19-2009, 03:58 PM
Perhaps this is indicative of the evolving nature of what it means to be a Duke student. It's not the 80's anymore. The student body is a lot more international, the party atmosphere has been severely limited in recent years, and the academic standards are ever-increasing (almost ridiculously so). Basketball is still very important, but there's a million other things pulling students in different directions and demanding their time. While cheer sheets serve a limited purpose (dirt sharing), recently they've become sort of a crutch. Some people think, why read up about an opponent on your own if you know you can just read the cheer sheet before the game and be told everything important? It's a self-perpetuating cycle.


Being even a moderate Duke basketball fan is ~8 hour/week committment (watching games on TV). That gets longer whenever you add in waiting on line, waiting for the buses after a game, entering Cameron before tip-off. Add in 4-5 classes and studying, 2-3 student groups, 1-3 community service activities, a work-study job, applying to summer internships and socializing...most Duke students are a little busy. Cheer sheets aren't necessarily the answer, but it's unreasonable to believe that most students are going to go online and look at the rosters for each team and google each player. You will always have the hard core crazies who spend time doing that, and the students who are interested enough in college basketball to come across it on their own, but most will not, since students already believe that Cameron is too big a time commitment (re: current attendance issues.)

stickdog
10-19-2009, 07:33 PM
Opponent rap sheets are fine. Or you can make a Crazy blog that collects and posts this information. You can even make up a good cheer and put it on a sign, if you want.

On the other hand, sheets handed out in line that instruct students what to cheer when are for complete dorks, IMHO.

JaMarcus Russell
10-19-2009, 07:47 PM
I thought maybe "Myra Piggy" would be a favorite of yours.

That's the most overrated example about how Maryland fans tricked the Duke student body. I was at the game and didn't hear anyone shout "Myra and Piggie" (Myron Piggie).

Duvall
10-19-2009, 07:55 PM
On the other hand, sheets handed out in line that instruct students what to cheer when are for complete dorks, IMHO.

There are probably things in this world more ironic than message board posters trying to determine what activities do and do not make someone a complete dork, but I really can't think of one at the moment.

BD80
10-19-2009, 08:32 PM
There are probably things in this world more ironic than message board posters trying to determine what activities do and do not make someone a complete dork, but I really can't think of one at the moment.

Perchance a message board poster implying that another message board poster is a complete dork for trying to determine what activities do and do not make someone a complete dork?

Edouble
10-19-2009, 09:13 PM
There are probably things in this world more ironic than message board posters trying to determine what activities do and do not make someone a complete dork, but I really can't think of one at the moment.

Posting on a message board does not make one a dork. I know this because I am here and I am not a dork.

However, even if we are all dorks for being on here, that in no way negates the fact that the cheer sheets make Duke students look like dorks. When I see stuff on TV about them, I'm so embarrassed. I see the world with royal blue tinted glasses, but even a person like me can see that the cheer sheets make the students look like dorks. Hopefully they are not dorks. But they make the Cameron Crazies look like dorks.

And I hate to come across as a smartass, but DukeFencer, how is watching the games on TV an 8 hour/week commitment. 2 games/week x 2 hours/game is 4 hours/week. This is half of your estimate. I know that even 4 hours/week is nothing to sneeze at, but I don't think watching all of the Duke games on TV takes 8 hours/week.

Duvall
10-19-2009, 09:17 PM
When I see stuff on TV about them, I'm so embarrassed.

Why? You aren't even there. Why would you feel embarrassed?

DukieInKansas
10-20-2009, 09:50 AM
I'm ambivalent on the cheer sheets. After reading through this thread, I'm just amazed that we actually had some organized cheers in Cameron before the internet. Somehow, we all figured out why keys were being shaken during the NCSU game and when to do it without the aid of message boards, google, cheer sheets, etc. :D

The best part of the keys being shaken was the column in the Durham paper the next day saying only Duke would have students with car keys to shake. Students were being given grief for cheers and antics even in the "olden days". (I admit to having a car key on my key chain but the car was in Texas. Amazingly enough, my dorm key, my room key, and my mail box key shake just as well.)

MulletMan
10-20-2009, 09:57 AM
Speedo Guy was not on the cheer sheet. Just sayin'.

Look, there is a difference between coreographed, or dare I say, forced cheers, and handing out oposing team rosters before the game. Hand out rosters. The rest will come organically.

I've seen the cheer sheets for many years... I have yet to hear any of the cheers on those sheets actually get used. So why doesn't everyone agree to disagree with the knowledge that the decree has come down from on high and the cheer sheets are gone.

Consequently, this discussion is a moo point. You know, like a cow's opinion. Its moo.

Exiled_Devil
10-20-2009, 10:48 AM
Only Nik Caner-Medley can beat Nik Caner-Medley.

Seriously, though, I agree with the poster above: you don't need a cheer sheet to know about this incident. It was pretty widely-reported.

Let go of the reliance on a script. Improvise. It's fun.

The idea that improvisation does not take a good amount of preparation shows a lack of understanding of good improvisation. And results in lots of "insert name" clap-clap-clap cheers

The sad thing to me is that the 'get rid of cheer sheets' call comes after other schools are mocking them even while copying them. The call to eliminate cheers sheets is a call against being prepared, smart and dedicated. I always thought those three adjectives were the definition of a Crazy.

Exiled_Devil
10-20-2009, 10:50 AM
Maybe instead of "Cheer Sheet" we need to call them "Fact Sheets." In other words, let's use it as a way to disseminate information about the opponents without scripting the cheers themselves. Does that sound like a reasonable compromise?

I concur. When I saw cheer sheets, they were fact sheets and not directing specific cheers.

And, FTR, I think that line monitors handing tp cheers sheets is a horrible idea - they should come from a source that wants to do them, not someone who thinks it is their right/responsibility. (Not sure if that is the case, but I have tracked from afar a parallel of head line monitors rising in prominence and cheer sheets become less about opponent data and more about how to act and what to say.)

allenmurray
10-20-2009, 10:57 AM
The idea that improvisation does not take a good amount of preparation shows a lack of understanding of good improvisation.

I don't care about cheer sheets one way or the other, but you make an excellent point. If you have ever watched a good "spontaneous" improv team you will be amazed at their knowledge of the current "news of the day" regarding sports, politics, entertainment, pop culture, current events, etc. You have to be very well prepared to do good improvisation. Having background knowledge is what makes folks able to be spontaneous and intelligent instead of just spontaneous.

Richard Berg
10-20-2009, 02:44 PM
Looks like the point I came here to make has already been made a few times. Cheer sheets are not an instruction manual. They are a collection of raw material. (or least, they were in the 1999-06 timeframe I was able to attend games regularly)

I agree they should be renamed, to help remind incoming freshmen of their purpose. Calling them "dirt sheets" might also change outside opinion of the practice, but honestly I don't care about that. Being hated is part of the Duke fandom experience.

BD80
10-20-2009, 03:24 PM
Group dynamics also requiring the sharing of information. To allow the entire crowd to participate, the individuals throughout the stadium need to know what is being chanted as the chant begins. It is often difficult to figure it out just by listening to the chant, unless you have some clues to work from.

Thus, shared information will lead to better participation.

From the perspective of an older Crazie, I believe that political correctitude has made it much more difficult on the Crazies to be funny and original. I do appreciate the continued attempts. Semper Fi !

Wheat/"/"/"
10-20-2009, 03:28 PM
Here's the deal...at least as I see it for the students.

"Cheer Sheets" = Lame. Call them what ever you want, still ='s nerdy and dorky.

The crazies have simply lost their edge the past few years.
Too milk toast and politically correct for my taste these days.

It's competition, a game. Jumping up and down does not equal intensity. You earn the title of a crazy, not inherit it. It's your house, even if Tyler Hansbrough holds the mortgage :)

Put a finger in your friends chest next time you are debating a hot topic, and watch the other "team" reaction, then you will get a sense of the crazies of old.

Sorry, but you guys are ho hum the past few years. I'd love to see you be better.

I always liked the Crazies antics, so here's my take...

Piss somebody off, anybody, get under the skin. That's when you know you have their attention. The funny stuff will come the closer to the edge you get.

That was what made the crazies relevant way back when.

Step up to the line but don't cross it. I know the line always moves, but you're supposed to be smart enough to figure out where it is, it's why you are in school. If you cross it, people will let you know, and you can say..."excuse me" ;)

If you never test the limits of the line, you are destined for average.

throatybeard
10-20-2009, 08:24 PM
There are probably things in this world more ironic than message board posters trying to determine what activities do and do not make someone a complete dork, but I really can't think of one at the moment.

Word. To summarize:

11a) Duke students were cool when I was 20; now they’re all nerds.
11e) The Cameron Crazies suck now; we were so much cleverer/wilder/more dedicated when I was 20.
11i) I don’t understand cheer X. Please explain it to me.

And in other recent threads:

11h) We didn’t have tents when I was 20, so the kids today shouldn’t have tents.
11k) The damn kids don’t support the team any more. Let me explain how much more effective I would be in those stands despite my varicose veins and my mortgage debt.
11L) The reason the damn kids don’t support the team anymore is that tenting/bracelet rules are intimidating.

YourLandlord
10-20-2009, 09:52 PM
Too milk toast and politically correct for my taste these days.


...a joke?

OldPhiKap
10-20-2009, 10:05 PM
...a joke?

I must admit that I'm a Trinity guy and not an EE, but wouldn't that start a fire?

Wheat/"/"/"
10-20-2009, 10:36 PM
...a joke?

Not really, but in hindsight probably a poor choice of words given the racial accusations and tone we've seen concerning team make up thrown around at Duke lately.(Which I don't buy into at all).

Tired after a long road trip...was thinking more along the lines of plain, dull, boring....Does the young crowd still say "keepin' it real" ?:)

UrinalCake
10-20-2009, 11:06 PM
The crazies have simply lost their edge the past few years.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but at the same time the idea that the current students are not as original/supportive/crazy as the previous alumni were is almost as old as the very concept of the crazies themselves. In other words, the old guys are always complaining about the younger guys. That was true when I was a student and it's true on the other side now that I'm an alum.

Edouble
10-21-2009, 02:21 AM
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but at the same time the idea that the current students are not as original/supportive/crazy as the previous alumni were is almost as old as the very concept of the crazies themselves. In other words, the old guys are always complaining about the younger guys. That was true when I was a student and it's true on the other side now that I'm an alum.

Yeah, but Wheat's not coming from the alumnus' perspective.

YourLandlord
10-21-2009, 10:02 AM
Not really, but in hindsight probably a poor choice of words given the racial accusations and tone we've seen concerning team make up thrown around at Duke lately.(Which I don't buy into at all).

Tired after a long road trip...was thinking more along the lines of plain, dull, boring....Does the young crowd still say "keepin' it real" ?:)

Then I believe you were looking for this word:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/milquetoast

El_Diablo
10-21-2009, 10:11 AM
Then I believe you were looking for this word:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/milquetoast

AKA:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=milk%20toast

allenmurray
10-21-2009, 10:47 AM
Here's the deal...at least as I see it for the students.

"Cheer Sheets" = Lame. Call them what ever you want, still ='s nerdy and dorky.

The crazies have simply lost their edge the past few years.
Too milk toast and politically correct for my taste these days.

It's competition, a game. Jumping up and down does not equal intensity. You earn the title of a crazy, not inherit it. It's your house, even if Tyler Hansbrough holds the mortgage :)

Put a finger in your friends chest next time you are debating a hot topic, and watch the other "team" reaction, then you will get a sense of the crazies of old.

Sorry, but you guys are ho hum the past few years. I'd love to see you be better.

I always liked the Crazies antics, so here's my take...

Piss somebody off, anybody, get under the skin. That's when you know you have their attention. The funny stuff will come the closer to the edge you get.

That was what made the crazies relevant way back when.

Step up to the line but don't cross it. I know the line always moves, but you're supposed to be smart enough to figure out where it is, it's why you are in school. If you cross it, people will let you know, and you can say..."excuse me" ;)

If you never test the limits of the line, you are destined for average.

I appreciate your thoughts, and agree with most of them. I find it amazing that this comes from someone who roots for a team that plays in about the most sterile sports venue I've ever been to.

Bluedog
10-21-2009, 11:23 AM
Somewhat topical to this thread:

http://dukechronicle.com/article/dsg-hear-proposal-delay-tenting


Duke Student Government will consider a line monitor proposal that may begin Blue tenting Jan. 30.


We’re all for getting more people into the games, and we’ll do whatever it takes

Maybe I'm missing something, but how does changing tenting policies affect the other games? I guess, if you're saying that tenters don't attend other games besides the two that the tenting is designated for, but I find that hard to believe ... as most tenters are the most intense fans and thus go to all the games anyways. It's the casual fans that don't tent that we need to convince to go to the games. And changing the tenting schedule won't affect them. The attendance to UNC games is not the problem, and tenting always reaches its cap anyways, so making tenting easier won't change that. That's my opinion, at least. Having said that, changing the official start date won't change much as people can just get out there earlier if they want. I do like the change from 8 tenters to 6 at nights though.


They are discussing making the Nov. 13 game against the University of North Carolina at Greensboro a Greek Night. White said no definite plans have been set for the night, but Greek students would likely be admitted to Cameron after the first several hundred students waiting in line get in [...] Associate Head Coach Steve Wojciechowski has met with several fraternities to encourage members to attend men’s basketball games, White said.


“He just talked about getting a rowdier crowed, like it used to be in Cameron,” Faurie said. “They’re reaching out to frats first because they know they have a large social influence.”

As somebody who was not Greek, I am actually in favor of this. In the student body, there is somewhat of a rift among certain contingents honestly, thinking that only "nerds" go to the games and its not a "cool" thing to do. I personally think that opinion is ridiculous and stupid, but can tell you from first hand accounts that it exists. And the Greek system is large, influential, and has fairly terrible attendance overall, I'd say. Obviously there is huge variation from frat-to-frat and person-to-person, but as a whole it can get a lot better. Having a bad game (UNC-Greensboro) designated as a Greek game may get some members more excited about basketball and likely to attend other games. And, yeah, I think having more loud, obnoxious fraternity guys (obviously, not saying all guys in frats are obnoxious) would be a welcome addition to Cameron.

Wheat/"/"/"
10-21-2009, 11:56 AM
Then I believe you were looking for this word:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/milquetoast

Damn Duke education gets me every time...:)

...And I would love for the Dean Dome to somehow capture the intensity of Cameron, but it's just too big to sustain that night in and night out, and I'm resigned to believe it's never going to happen.

Duke has been wise to resist the move for bigger and better.

Edouble
10-21-2009, 01:11 PM
Duke has been wise to resist the move for bigger and better.

Exactly, because the move would only be for bigger. :o

miramar
10-21-2009, 01:31 PM
It's too bad that everyone has forgotten about Mr. Millquetoast. He was gone before my time, but when I was a kid my parents had a book with some of the old comic strips and I have to say he was a great character:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_Milquetoast