Goodman: Top 20 Frontcourts

[shoutingncu]

Slightly more representation:

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/10122718/The-country

[SMO]

Slightly more representation:

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/10122718/The-country

Oops! Forgot that big 7'1" fellow that also happens to play in the Duke front court.

[CMARTZ]

Oops! Forgot that big 7'1" fellow that also happens to play in the Duke front court.

I was about to say the same thing. What was his name again?

[MChambers]

I was about to say the same thing. What was his name again?

Koubek, right?

[meloveduke]

i think it is funny, singler is not going to play the post this year but he has him listed.

[superdave]

Hating UNC as much as I do, I cannot read all that without mentioning Ed Davis is over-rated. Yeah, he is really good. But was there any point last year where you thought yourself, "Wow, this guy is absolutely dominating the game!"? I didnt think so....

I think 15 and 10 is a very likely scenario for him. Dont get me wrong, I'd take him in a heartbeat. But he seems like a guy who will domate the boards, but probably not carry a huge portion of the scoring load. Maybe he's a Shelden Williams typ ein that regard, but he wont average 20 ppg.

And people should consider UNC's weakness at PG as a liability for it's interior scoring as well. Good PG's get big men easy buckets, bad PG's dont.

[superdave]

It seems to me that Zoubek will be a matchup player for Duke this year. He will get Alabi, significant PT against UNC and GT's height, and of course if we play Texas again somehow....But Zoubek wont be playing against quicker smaller guys.

Lance Thomas could be this year's McClure where he gets a lot of minutes as a stopper (and offensive pick-setter). He hit a few nice jumpers from the elbows last year - I'd love to see that become a consistent weapon.

I cannot wait to see how much Miles has improved this year. I still recall that slash through the lane and big dunk at Clemson last year. Of course, that was the only good play the team made all night. Sorry to bring that game up.

Mason is the X-factor though. And Ryan Kelly will likely get minutes at the 3 and 4 to spell Lance and Kyle.

If we get a combined 25 and 15 out of our frontcourt this year in ACC games, we'll win the conference (excluding Kyle of course).

Last year, we got roughly 13 and 12 combined out of Lance, Zoubek, Miles and McClure (not adjusting for the fatc that not everyone played every game).

So the rebounding ought to be there, but the scoring needs to improve with a thinner back court and less athelticism on the wings. Here's hoping for consistent scoring contribution from Mason!

[Kedsy]

Hating UNC as much as I do, I cannot read all that without mentioning Ed Davis is over-rated. Yeah, he is really good. But was there any point last year where you thought yourself, "Wow, this guy is absolutely dominating the game!"? I didnt think so....

I think 15 and 10 is a very likely scenario for him. Dont get me wrong, I'd take him in a heartbeat. But he seems like a guy who will domate the boards, but probably not carry a huge portion of the scoring load. Maybe he's a Shelden Williams typ ein that regard, but he wont average 20 ppg.

And people should consider UNC's weakness at PG as a liability for it's interior scoring as well. Good PG's get big men easy buckets, bad PG's dont.

You think he's overrated because he's only going to get 15 and 10? Are you serious?

Last year nobody in the ACC managed as many as 10 rebounds per game. And of the 11 players in the league who pulled down 7 or more rebs per game, only Hansbrough and Singler had more than 15 ppg (and Kyle was 16 and 7, which frankly isn't really as good as 15 and 10).

If Davis goes 15 and 10 this year, he will be one of the favorites for ACC POY. In what way would that be overrated?


P.S.: I hate the Heels, too, but occasionally we need a dose of reality.

[superdave]

Goodman referred to Davis as a "bona fide star." And Davis is a consensus tope 3 pick in next year's NBA draft.

But take the two biggest stars in college last year - Hansborough and Blake Griffin.

Hanborough averaged 20.7 and 8.1.
Griffin averaged 22.7 and 14.4.

Ed Davis will not compare to either of these guys in the 2009-2010. He has a ton of talent and will be really good, but he will not compare to either of these guys or even to Patrick Patterson for that matter. 15 and 10 is not close to Griffin or Hansborough and maybe puts him as 5th or 6th best big man this year. Dont get me wrong, I'd love to have him. But he will not be dominating college in his sophmore year.

[InSpades]

If you just multiply his stats by 1.5 (assuming he'll get around 28 minutes per game) then he's at 10 rebounds per game and about 10 points per game. To be the type of player that people are projecting (1st team AA) then he needs to pick up his scoring a lot. 15 and 10 is great and any team would happily sign up for it, but it's not 1st team AA. Jordan Hill put up 18 and 11 last year and barely received any recognition (he got drafted quite highly though).

There are a few real questions with Davis though... can he handle playing 10 more minutes per game? It's a big difference between playing 18 and 28 minutes per game. Also how much did he benefit from Lawson + Hansbrough? Having 2 all-americans in your lineup has a way of making everyone else look a bit better. They also lose all of their outside shooting so the interior may look a lot more crowded for everyone in baby blue this year. I could see it going either way... he could step up big time not having to worry about deferring to the established stars or he could struggle having to be "the man". Obviously UNC still has a lot of other talent, but he's going from being the 4th or 5th offensive option when he's out there to being more like 2nd or so.

[whereinthehellami]

There are a few real questions with Davis though... can he handle playing 10 more minutes per game? It's a big difference between playing 18 and 28 minutes per game. Also how much did he benefit from Lawson + Hansbrough? Having 2 all-americans in your lineup has a way of making everyone else look a bit better. They also lose all of their outside shooting so the interior may look a lot more crowded for everyone in baby blue this year. I could see it going either way... he could step up big time not having to worry about deferring to the established stars or he could struggle having to be "the man". Obviously UNC still has a lot of other talent, but he's going from being the 4th or 5th offensive option when he's out there to being more like 2nd or so.

Good post. I agree that Davis has some questions to answer. Didn't he have some re-occurring injuries last year or the year before (knee?, ankle?)?

[Aditya]

i think it is funny, singler is not going to play the post this year but he has him listed.

I think he has people who would be considered small forwards listed. Xavier Henry of Kansas is there too.

I guess for him frontcourt means forwards and centers not post players.

[SushiChef]

I was about to say the same thing. What was his name again?

Isn't it 'Greg Zoubek'?

[JasonEvans]

Obviously UNC still has a lot of other talent, but he's going from being the 4th or 5th offensive option when he's out there to being more like 2nd or so.

Who do you think will be Carolina's #1 scoring option?

Unless they expect to put the team on the back of one of the freshmen (Henson?) or they expect one of the uppeclassmen who have been 4th or 5th options their entire career to step up (Ginyard or Thompson?) then it almost has to be Ed Davis.

Now, like all Roy teams, I expect Carolina to generate a lot of offense out of their defensive traps and fastbreaks. But, when they get into a halfcourt game -- and they will against better teams -- I suspect that dumping it into Davis will be one of their primary offensive options.

How he handles that could make or break their season to a large extent.

--Jason "I won't be at all surprised if he averages like 17 and 9 -- which would be a big season" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Didn't he (Davis) have some re-occurring injuries last year or the year before (knee?, ankle?)?

I think you are thinking of Tyler Zeller, who got hurt and missed much of last season. Ed Davis played in every game for the Heels last year.

--Jason

[InSpades]

Who do you think will be Carolina's #1 scoring option?


If there was a game tomorrow I'd think it would be Deon Thompson. I know he's not as talented as Davis but he has a lot of experience and he has been more than a 4th or 5th option out there at times. I remember him putting it to our guys on more than 1 occasion.

Davis could certainly be the #1 option too. My point wasn't to quibble about #1 or #2 but that he's going from being one of the last options to one of the 1st options which is a huge difference.

From what I remember of Davis (which admittedly isn't that much) but he got a lot of points on plays that weren't meant for him. Offensive rebounds, loose balls that bounced his way, that sort of thing. There's only so many of those to go around.

[jws]

Goodman referred to Davis as a "bona fide star." And Davis is a consensus tope 3 pick in next year's NBA draft.

But take the two biggest stars in college last year - Hansborough and Blake Griffin.

Hanborough averaged 20.7 and 8.1.
Griffin averaged 22.7 and 14.4.

Ed Davis will not compare to either of these guys in the 2009-2010. He has a ton of talent and will be really good, but he will not compare to either of these guys or even to Patrick Patterson for that matter. 15 and 10 is not close to Griffin or Hansborough and maybe puts him as 5th or 6th best big man this year. Dont get me wrong, I'd love to have him. But he will not be dominating college in his sophmore year.

Yes, if scoring average is your sole criterion, Ed Davis probably won't be a gigantic superstar this upcoming season.

If overall contribution and value to his team on both ends of the floor and in all phases of the game, and how he performs in crunch time is the criterion, I think Ed will be a superstar this season.

[trinity92]

Someone has to score points on a team that isn't great. Given the void of scorers at UNC, Davis will have a much bigger jump in production than merely taking last year's numbers and multiplying them by his increase in minutes from last year. I'm with JEvans-- don't be surprised at all if Davis vaults his production this year. He's a beast who was playing behind a serious POY contender. I think he's approaching Elton Brand good and we will see a lot from him this year. I can't think of a UNC player with more potential since Jamison or Carter.

[flyingdutchdevil]

What I think will really hurt Ed Davis and the other post options is the lack of a three point threat. I don't think that there is a consistent 3-point shooter on the roster (maybe MacDonald, but I'm not too sure). As a result, the paint is going to be much more clogged than last year, where Ellington was probably the best shooter in the ACC.

[JasonEvans]

I don't think that there is a consistent 3-point shooter on the roster (maybe MacDonald, but I'm not too sure).

Scout list the following as Leslie McDonald's strengths-- Complementary Player, Multi-dimensional.

It lists these as his weaknesses-- Aggressive scorer, perimeter shot

That tells me that he is probably not going to be the outside gunner who can open things up for Davis and the other post-players.

-Jason "Carolina's best hope is that LD2 really worked on his outside shot this summer" Evans

[MChambers]

Someone has to score points on a team that isn't great. Given the void of scorers at UNC, Davis will have a much bigger jump in production than merely taking last year's numbers and multiplying them by his increase in minutes from last year. I'm with JEvans-- don't be surprised at all if Davis vaults his production this year. He's a beast who was playing behind a serious POY contender. I think he's approaching Elton Brand good and we will see a lot from him this year. I can't think of a UNC player with more potential since Jamison or Carter.

What about Bersticker? Or was he after Jamison and Carter? :)

[DukieInBrasil]

They call for Duke to have the 13th best back-court, 5 places behind Butler and 12 places behind the Holes. I´m not sure how much difference he would have made to their calculations, but they did not include Z as a frontcourt player. Seems like a pretty gross error. Z may not be the best of that group, but he is certainly good enough to merit a mention. Also left off of Duke´s backcourt, Olek Czyz. OC didn´t see much time last year and may not see much more this year.
If you´re are going to rank aspects of a team, is it not important to include all of the players?
Despite lauding Singler as a POY candidate (wouldn´t that alone make your frontcourts one of the top 5?) it´s a pretty vacant appraisal of the frontcourt.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/10122718/The-country%27s-top-frontcourts-in-2009-10

[Kedsy]

They call for Duke to have the 13th best back-court, 5 places behind Butler and 12 places behind the Holes. I´m not sure how much difference he would have made to their calculations, but they did not include Z as a frontcourt player. Seems like a pretty gross error. Z may not be the best of that group, but he is certainly good enough to merit a mention. Also left off of Duke´s backcourt, Olek Czyz. OC didn´t see much time last year and may not see much more this year.
If you´re are going to rank aspects of a team, is it not important to include all of the players?
Despite lauding Singler as a POY candidate (wouldn´t that alone make your frontcourts one of the top 5?) it´s a pretty vacant appraisal of the frontcourt.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/10122718/The-country%27s-top-frontcourts-in-2009-10

Why do you care?

[El_Diablo]

This article has a thread already:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17216

Thankfully the season is almost upon us...I'm ready to see Ma$e blow up.

[Bob Green]

This article has a thread already:


The two threads have been merged.